production of high-tech in the MoC in the DA

[ArcaneRaven]

I assume, we all know that the Magistracy has benefited from the alliance with the Capellan Confederation regarding availability of high-tech and modern military equipment. But in retrospect, nearly all these technologies and gear are manufactured outside of the Magistracy. The sole exemption to this which comes to my mind is the Theseus battle armor. Many new Mechs are produced on Detroit, which is not in Canopian hands anymore. The same with the trinity ASF. Not to mention the brand-new Pocket WarShip, which is produced in Capellan shipyards.

So, my question is, do you think that after the Jihad and the Dark Age, will the Magistracy have own production sites of new technologies? Maybe modern shipyards or a Mech supply firm able to produce modern technologies for new models?

It seems to me, that this could be possible, since the Canopians apparently did enjoy a period of peaceful borders, a stable alliance with the Capellans and economical growth. What do you think?

[nckestrel]

Penthesilea.  Phoenix Hawk 4W. Ebony.

[Maelwys]

And possibly the Shadow Hawk 8L as well.

I'd expect the Magistracy to be up there in terms of technology. Maybe not as high and prolific as the Houses, but I'm pretty sure they're going to be up close to them atleast.

Detroit is a pretty serious loss, but hopefully the Magistracy will be able to rebound from it, and we'll see more situations like the Tamerlane pop up.

Aerospace the Magistracy is slightly better than most people think..or was. Its hard to tell at this point, but the Handbook gave them a production site at Marantha, and there are some indications that it produced some cutting-edge designs.

I was kind of wondering if the Magistracy might continue with what the Ebony Assault Rifle started. Modern infantry weapons. And they definitely need a new Infantry Armor kit.

[Kit deSummersville]

Toss in a Koschei or two.

[ArcaneRaven]

It seems, I was a bit absentminded when I posted that issue.  :-[

Of course, you're all right! Maybe, I was a bit too focused on my beloved Vengeance-DS.  O:-)

So, what do you think? New, modern shipyards and domestic produced PWS for Her Majesty?  ^-^

[ANS Kamas P81]

Sadly those Vengeances are being built overseas; it'd sure be nice to have them being produced in the MoC.  Then again, where in the hell did we get all those Dictators from?  I swear that this is going to be one of those Minnesota Tribe things that lurks in the background for years before finally turning into something major; that Blakist production site for the Pixies has barely been mentioned.  And there's still the mysterious and sudden boost in covert operations that totally did not come from Lostech Standalone Complex DVDs.

But as far as the rest, well, we are producing our own BA, we've got some good production as of '67, though it's questionable how much survives.  In lieu of Objectives: Periphery, here's MadCap's list from Objectives '67:

Canopus:
LCT-5V Locust
STG-6L Stinger
WSP-3L Wasp
MAD-5L Marauder
Heavy LRM Carrier

Detroit:
CMT-3T Troika
CMT-4U Troika
STG-5T Stinger
STG-6L Stinger
WSP-3L Wasp
WSP-7MAF Wasp
ABS-3L Anubis
ABS-3R Anubis
ABS-3T Anubis
MHL-X1 Marshal
MHL-2L Marshal
OSR-4L Ostroc
Theseus Battle Armor

Dunianshire:
LCT-5V Locust
SHD-7M Shadow Hawk
SB-27 Sabre
MSF-42 Bluehawk
Light SRM Carrier
Pike Support Vehicle
Po Tank
Manticore Tank
Heavy LRM Carrier
Leopard class Dropship

Marantha:
SYD-Z4 Seydlitz
LTN-G16L Lightning
TRB-36 Thunderbird

Royal Foxx:
Theseus Battle Armor

Sadly, we're importing a lot.  Weapons and equipment produced in-country:
ER Small Laser
Medium Laser
ER Medium Laser
Large Laser
ER Large Laser
PPC
AC/2
AC/5
AC/10
LRM-5
LRM-10
LRM-15
LRM-20
SRM-2
SRM-6
MML-5
Rocket Launcher 10
Rocket Launcher 15
Rocket Launcher 20
Machine Gun
Flamer

I note the lack of ERPPCs and pulse lasers of any kind, as well as a lack of plasma weapons.  That's some pretty heavy imports from the CapCon, but at least there's some ER stuff available.  As for other things...
Chassis:
Anubis (Endo-steel)
Locust
Stinger (Endo-steel)
Wasp (Endo-steel)
Marshal
Shadow Hawk (Endo-steel)
Ostroc (Endo-steel)
Marauder
Seydlitz
Sabre
Bluehawk
Lightning
Thunderbird
Troika

Armor in both Ferro and regular is produced, so there's that as well; the way BT treats armor points-is-points so you can more or less swap out whatever you need that way.  Fusion engines include the 120, 160, 180XL, 200, 220, 240, 250, 260XL, 275, and 300-rated.  ICE engines come in 140, 160, 180, 240, and 250 flavors.  T&T and commo systems don't really matter, so that can be swapped out with whatever you like.  So as far as parts budgets; it's not great - but it could be a lot worse.

God I can't wait for O85.

[Maelwys]

Well, we know from the Penthesilea that they're producing ERPPCs and Light PPCs now. And honestly, weapon production is sort of...eh. Its a level of detail that BT doesn't do well. The Jihad supposedly lead to large scale shipping problems, but the only time I can recall it ever being mentioned as a problem was with the Tamerlane and the ERMLs. I just sort of assume that the nation can produce/import no matter what any Tournament legal weapon system it needs, unless an author specifically decides otherwise.

[Kit deSummersville]

I just sort of assume that the nation can produce/import no matter what any Tournament legal weapon system it needs, unless an author specifically decides otherwise.

Eh, sometimes, sometimes not. Herb nixed the Magshot on the first Rottweiler, for example.

[Maelwys]

Eh, sometimes, sometimes not. Herb nixed the Magshot on the first Rottweiler, for example.

Wouldn't that be a prime example of the author (or above) deciding otherwise? And I was talking more about post-Jihad, rather in the 3060's when technology hadn't proliferated.

I mean, is there really anything post Jihad that would stop the Magistracy from producing ERMLs post Jihad? They may not be able to produce everything, but I can't see most major factions having trouble saying "Okay, we need a new arms factory"

[ANS Kamas P81]

I mean, is there really anything post Jihad that would stop the Magistracy from producing ERMLs post Jihad? They may not be able to produce everything, but I can't see most major factions having trouble saying "Okay, we need a new arms factory"

No, simply by dint of there being nothing post-Jihad.  Like I said, Objectives Periphery isn't out yet; when it is we'll have an answer but for now all we can do is look at what we had as late as '67, and pick whatever notes there is out of 3075, XTROs, 3085, and Prototypes; not all that much overall. 

[nckestrel]

No, simply by dint of there being nothing post-Jihad.  Like I said, Objectives Periphery isn't out yet; when it is we'll have an answer but for now all we can do is look at what we had as late as '67, and pick whatever notes there is out of 3075, XTROs, 3085, and Prototypes; not all that much overall.

The Objectives series doesn't show components, so unless the text happens to mention something about it, we still won't know.
However, I strongly suspect the "Majesty Metals royal Flush Extended Range Particle Gun", and "Majesty Metals Deuce Light Particle Gun" are not imported.  (From the Penthesilea).  And the Imperator Code Red and Diverse Optics lasers are licensed out often enough that I suspect those might be produced locally as well? 

[Kit deSummersville]

Wouldn't that be a prime example of the author (or above) deciding otherwise?

It was more of an 'author's choice overruled by the greater storyline'. Otherwise everything that gets done or not done is because of author choice, when you get down to it. Its the very nature of fiction.

And I was talking more about post-Jihad, rather in the 3060's when technology hadn't proliferated.

It was just the first example that popped into my head.

I mean, is there really anything post Jihad that would stop the Magistracy from producing ERMLs post Jihad? They may not be able to produce everything, but I can't see most major factions having trouble saying "Okay, we need a new arms factory"

It all depends on the needs of the storyline. I'm sure OR:Periphery will fill in some details.

[Maelwys]

The Objectives series doesn't show components, so unless the text happens to mention something about it, we still won't know.
However, I strongly suspect the "Majesty Metals royal Flush Extended Range Particle Gun", and "Majesty Metals Deuce Light Particle Gun" are not imported.  (From the Penthesilea).  And the Imperator Code Red and Diverse Optics lasers are licensed out often enough that I suspect those might be produced locally as well?

See, that's why I'm of the opinion that component production doesn't matter much, other than giving cool factional names to components. They just don't have much of bearing on what can be produced by a faction, even less so post Jihad when pretty much everything proliferated.

[Colt Ward]

So do you prefer the KSC-4I, -4L, -5I or -5MAC?

The Dictators are still going to be fun to mess with.

[Neufeld]

So do you prefer the KSC-4I, -4L, -5I or -5MAC?

5I -- it jumps, lacks  explosive ammo, and does not jam. The 4I is a decent low-cost alternative.

[Maelwys]

I really want to like the 5MC. I'm just aware its got a few issues (the main being the small cockpit). The 5I is really hard to not like. Along with its already mentioned abilities, it also packs ECM, giving it yet another edge.

[False Son]

I like the 5MC.  It has a decent speed and lots of firepower, exactly what is needed to go into the MAF's skirmisher style warfare that seems to be developing.  It's not perfect, but then, MoC's designs are anything but, at the moment.

[Maelwys]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't hate it, I just look at it, then look at the 5I and realize the 5I jumps, doesn't have to worry about a small cockpit, has a compact gyro, and an ECM suite and doesn't have to worry about going "Boom" from the ammo (of course, the heat curve on the 5I isn't as forgiving)

I wouldn't mind running a Penthesilea, Penthesilea, Eyleuka and Koschei lance to see how it goes.

[Desert Raider]

Penthesilea.  Phoenix Hawk 4W. Ebony.

And lets not forget those lovely Tau Wraith...errr.... Ebon Magistrate Special Forces they have in TRO:3085. Where did they develop the technology for that kind of cyber, Hmm? Our friends the Canopians definitely will bear watching....

[Maelwys]

Probably some of it from the Capellans. Ion Rush and some of the Death Commandos were enhanced similarly in the 3050's and early 3060's. Not to mention the Magistracy has been one of the leaders in medicine, so its not too surprising that they could pull it off.

Not to mention the cybernetics on them aren't that advanced. Dermal armor was pioneered by the Capellans, and I think multi-modal eyes are relatively familiar (if not that common). And that's it really. Its not like there are the hightech implants, like VDNI.

(actually, looking at it, the MoC Commandos might get screwed a bit on their BV calculations)

[ArkRoyalRavager]

The problem is, the Capellans wasn't probably involved in the Ebon Magistrate supersoldiers, because we have mention of their prolific skills already in FM:U, and if the Capellans were, the Blakist ROM guys making the report would know of it.

[ANS Kamas P81]

The problem is, the Capellans wasn't probably involved in the Ebon Magistrate supersoldiers, because we have mention of their prolific skills already in FM:U, and if the Capellans were, the Blakist ROM guys making the report would know of it.

Guide to Covert Operations mentions the 3020 era and negotiations with Andurien being the timeframe of discovery of a major source of something in the Magistracy, though there's also not-so-subtle suggestions that Wolfnet was responsible as well.  YMMV in that case, but GtCO also directly mentions the prosthetic enhancements and is the earliest reference I can find.

The argument for a Capellan source can't be completely discounted, considering Warrior House White Tiger and Warrior House Rakshasa.  Even Kali had her own pet MD-style troopers.

[False Son]

Candice also had that dermal moyomer that saved her life from the assassin.  Granted, it was medical...

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Or the MoC was simply that good when it comes to the medical industry

[Maelwys]

The problem is, the Capellans wasn't probably involved in the Ebon Magistrate supersoldiers, because we have mention of their prolific skills already in FM:U, and if the Capellans were, the Blakist ROM guys making the report would know of it.

They don't have to be involved in the program, just have provided the medical data on some of the implants that they've designed/used. I'm just saying that most of the Tech on the Commandos isn't unique, or limited to the WoB only. They could've gotten the data on it from the Capellans, or it could've been parallel research. Since its medical technology, its not that much of a stretch.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Which is what i was saying in the previous post: it could be that the MoC was simply that good when it comes to medical industry