Author Topic: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade  (Read 12334 times)

Karasu

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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #30 on: 09 August 2020, 03:10:21 »
Alternatively, all of the parts that don't actually involve the Board Game of Armoured Combat were covered in the opening of the product, so that the rest of it could be devoted to the sections on playing the game.

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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #31 on: 09 August 2020, 07:16:45 »
In the future reduced to:
IlClan
Deep Periphery (Minor)
Scorpion Empire
Home Clans

Don't think we'll end up with quite that small an amount, think it will probably end up something like this:-

Capellan Confederation (including the MoC and DA)
Clan Hell's Horses
Clan Jade Falcon
Clan Sea Fox
Draconis Combine
Federated Suns
Free Worlds League (maybe including a conquered MH)
Lyran Commonwealth
Marian Hegemony (if not absorbed by the FWL)
Rasalhague Dominion
Raven Alliance
Scorpion Empire
Star League in Exile (or whatever the Homeworld Clans are calling themselves these days)
Taurian Concordat
Wolf Empire

Plus minor powers who rarely get screen time.

Not sure which clan will be the IlClan.

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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #32 on: 09 August 2020, 09:26:47 »
Something else to think about is the Scorpion Empire with the addition of all these worlds and there rescources might be a match for the any of the Homeworld Clans within a few years. If the Scorpions captured the factorys intact they can quickly produce new mechs and armor and battlearmor. No mention of Shipyards so I don't think they will have gained that capability.

Hmmm, I do not know.
Reasons that the Home Clans do not appear in this sourcebook might be that they do have a more advanced Technology Level now.
The Scorpions needed 20 years to get a (mostly) Clan-Level Technology-based industry online.


Even with the destruction of the WoR the Home Clans still had a Clan-Level industrial base. They did start more advanced than the Scorpions.
They could have reach a new Level now. Therefore TPTB want to get them back into the game later.


Maybe they decided to leave the Scorpions and Hansa alone because they have considered the mas both Tainted and low-level, not worthy of their attention.

If there is a conflict coming between the Scorpions and Home Clans, the Scorpions might get steamrolled as they did to the Hansa.
(Then they could call for help from the ilClan then).
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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #33 on: 09 August 2020, 15:19:21 »
Maybe they decided to leave the Scorpions and Hansa alone because they have considered the mas both Tainted and low-level, not worthy of their attention.

If there is a conflict coming between the Scorpions and Home Clans, the Scorpions might get steamrolled as they did to the Hansa.
(Then they could call for help from the ilClan then).

It's the political equivalent of having a flaming bag of poop on your front porch.  Do they stamp it out and make a mess, or risk letting it burn itself out and then shovel the remains into a hole?
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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #34 on: 09 August 2020, 16:09:02 »
I think part of the problem is that this book represents a rather abrupt timeline jump. All the nitty gritty interesting details of how things got to where they are now had to fit in all of two and a half pages rather than have any chance to breath and be seen in a narratively satisfying way.

It feels like the intention was to get them caught up rather than lingering in the past when everything else had moved on, but... I was hoping to see more of the groundwork being laid, with the struggles of integration and trying to make do with inferior equipment and maybe even active disruption from the homeworlds. But then the kinda thing I would have wanted to see might have required a full sized sourcebook to cover, and I don't think that would have been deemed viable.

It also hasn't been crowded out; integration was starting in earnest in the late 80s but the crusade wasn't until over 50 years later.

Hmmm, I do not know.
Reasons that the Home Clans do not appear in this sourcebook might be that they do have a more advanced Technology Level now.
The Scorpions needed 20 years to get a (mostly) Clan-Level Technology-based industry online.


Even with the destruction of the WoR the Home Clans still had a Clan-Level industrial base. They did start more advanced than the Scorpions.
They could have reach a new Level now. Therefore TPTB want to get them back into the game later.


Maybe they decided to leave the Scorpions and Hansa alone because they have considered the mas both Tainted and low-level, not worthy of their attention.

If there is a conflict coming between the Scorpions and Home Clans, the Scorpions might get steamrolled as they did to the Hansa.
(Then they could call for help from the ilClan then).

This is a lot of speculation with no evidence to back it up.  What we do know is that the Cloud Cobras raided with a Galaxy and a Warship in '88, and there was presumably no great difference in their tech level or capabilities from the 20 years prior or it'd have been mentioned.
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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #35 on: 09 August 2020, 16:44:20 »

Reasons that the Home Clans do not appear in this sourcebook might be that they do have a more advanced Technology Level now.


Wait, has that been hinted at anywhere? I'm struggling to understand how a tech bump (beyond what's in Tac Ops) would make sense either in-universe or on a meta storytelling level.

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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #36 on: 09 August 2020, 16:47:57 »
Wait, has that been hinted at anywhere? I'm struggling to understand how a tech bump (beyond what's in Tac Ops) would make sense either in-universe or on a meta storytelling level.

Only thing I could think of was the April Fools Turning point free St Ives bigger more powerful guns on advanced Mechs making older ones redundant or relegated to backwater duties

The idea out of game being littler variation of units more streamlined faster games as less weapons to resolve
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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #37 on: 09 August 2020, 16:49:15 »
Gaiitan was just positing a what if situation.  The home Clans are up to something, but we won't know for a century or so. 
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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #38 on: 09 August 2020, 16:54:05 »
That’s also an assumption.
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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #39 on: 09 August 2020, 17:04:22 »
Very true.  I hope for the best and prepare for the worst when it comes to the Homies. 
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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #40 on: 09 August 2020, 17:45:44 »
I believe the man with the yellow Marauder above has said (possibly more than once), that the Home Clans are on the back burner for now.  Nothing coming up in the next few years. 

(Adrian by all means correct me if I'm wrong, please  :)  )
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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #41 on: 09 August 2020, 17:56:50 »
To wit, the homies hadn’t been checked in on before WoR since... FM Update? (Apart from Klondike, which wasn’t exactly current events). They’ve been on the backest of burners for a long time

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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #42 on: 09 August 2020, 18:02:11 »
This is a lot of speculation with no evidence to back it up.  What we do know is that the Cloud Cobras raided with a Galaxy and a Warship in '88, and there was presumably no great difference in their tech level or capabilities from the 20 years prior or it'd have been mentioned.

And that the Homies would not or could not strike at the Scorpions with any sort of raiding for resources.  If they viewed the Scorpions as a threat or rival of any sort then they had a year+ in the 3140s to strike at them while they were exposed and over-extended.  No such strikes occurred.

Lots of forgetfulness about how the scientists among the Homies were pruned . . . but expecting some sort of tech improvement?
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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #43 on: 09 August 2020, 20:22:05 »
The Homeworlds and the Homeworld Clans still have to deal with the aftereffects of the WoR and the Society. So I doubt there advancing as fast as many believe. But they will probably advance to some degree by the 3150's beyond what people expect. They might also grow much more insular as well.
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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #44 on: 09 August 2020, 20:35:21 »
I wondered if the Home Clans were on a similar growth curve. 

Edit: the Homies will expand to refill the Kerensky Cluster again.  They will need to look outward for more poor resource worlds to exploit.  Maybe we won't wait as long as we tend to think for a Home Clan return to the stage.
« Last Edit: 09 August 2020, 20:39:35 by rebs »
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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #45 on: 09 August 2020, 21:06:15 »
I could easily see the Home Clans regressing, what with the whole Reaving thing and the issues with Scientists that came up.  Watch their tech start to slide backwards, a la the 1st and 2nd Succession Wars...

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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #46 on: 09 August 2020, 21:13:31 »
I could easily see the Home Clans regressing, what with the whole Reaving thing and the issues with Scientists that came up.  Watch their tech start to slide backwards, a la the 1st and 2nd Succession Wars...
I was thinking along the same lines, maybe not regressing so much but not much progression either. The science caste probably doesn't have too much freedom to innovate these days.

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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #47 on: 09 August 2020, 21:24:49 »
Well, at least the Hanseatic League had it's time in sun verses minor foot note in a Field Manual.

I'm not too happy about this consolidation of factions. How was them being all by themselves in deep black going effect anything?  I'm trying not be negative about them bulldozed into boring clan / dictatorship.  Leaving less variety in the universe isn't quite my vibe.

Hopefully the bigger plans ahead for everything be more brighter.
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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #48 on: 09 August 2020, 21:28:46 »
The homeworld Clans are very much traditionalists, so the unrestricted warfare of the early Succession Wars is unlikely outside of one of them being considered Tainted and a Trial of Annihilation being declared.  But yeah, with the Scientist caste under a microscope (  :P ) not much advancement.
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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #49 on: 09 August 2020, 22:31:50 »
So, if the conquest of the Hanseatic League is part of a broader effort by CGL to cut back on the number of "active" factions in play so as to give more development time to those left standing, would that make it marginally more likely for there to be less of a turnaround time between now and the next time we see new material covering the Scorpion Empire?

Also, I was somewhat surprised at the extent of the "failsafe" triggered by the Council of Merchants. It seems like more of a Blakist move, which may or may not be a coincidence depending on exactly how many ComStar/Word of Blake escapees from the Inner Sphere and near Periphery made it as far as the Hansa. (Although, given how much collateral damage the "failsafe" caused, it almost seems that the Council wanted to take any would-be restorationist movement to oblivion with them.)

And so far as Scorpion HPG usage goes, techically we only know for sure about those present in the Imperio as of 3132. There might remain the question as to whether or not any newly-built HPGs on conquered Hansa worlds would also work as normal. Or, for that matter, if there is any sort of set radius from Terra beyond which the effects of the Blackout no longer apply.
« Last Edit: 09 August 2020, 22:55:03 by Nerroth »

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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #50 on: 09 August 2020, 22:34:25 »
Well, at least the Hanseatic League had it's time in sun verses minor foot note in a Field Manual.

I'm not too happy about this consolidation of factions. How was them being all by themselves in deep black going effect anything?  I'm trying not be negative about them bulldozed into boring clan / dictatorship.  Leaving less variety in the universe isn't quite my vibe.

Hopefully the bigger plans ahead for everything be more brighter.

The questions is, who are they going to fight now? The Lyrans and the Falcons aren't going to go that way. The Lyrans barely can keep the homefront going, much less charge off several hundred light years in that direction. The Falcons are all about Terra. And if they win there, consolidating everything else is going to take time.

If the Scorpions want to be part of a war game, then the homeworld clans might be the only answer.

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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #51 on: 09 August 2020, 22:40:59 »
Perhaps one option could be for the Coyotes to have fled to another part of the Deep Periphery at some point before 3140, which could perhaps set up a three-sided battle for dominance between them, the Empire, and the "Adder Collective".

The question would then be exactly where the Coyotes could go. Perhaps to JàrnFòlk space? That might just be far enough away from the Inner Sphere to avoid direct contact with the Council of Six, yet close enough to either the Homeworlds or to the Empire to leave the door ajar for long-range strikes in one direction or the other. (Although placing yet another group of space Scandinavians under Clan occupation might be a tad overkill...)
« Last Edit: 09 August 2020, 22:45:31 by Nerroth »

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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #52 on: 09 August 2020, 23:16:41 »
I would love the Coyotes to escape the Kerensky Cluster.   
« Last Edit: 09 August 2020, 23:18:34 by rebs »
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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #53 on: 10 August 2020, 05:49:47 »
At the end of the Wars of Reaving, the Adders were planning on another invasion of the Inner Sphere.  Since this did not happen, it stands to reason that the Adders experienced some misfortune. Maybe the other clans feared their dominance enough to unify and smack the Adders down.  Maybe the Society hit them with an engineered virus.

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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #54 on: 10 August 2020, 06:03:27 »
Campaign Operations example campaign has the Adders suffer from getting beat back by Stone Lions, i think. Since i'm still pretty sure the thing is canonical, basically there was no Adder-led IS campaign because they weren't in position to do so.
Of course, there's also that there was never any timeline stated when they were thinking of attacking, for all we know they were like "eh, let's do rebuilding and stuff for a century or so and then see about the invasion".

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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #55 on: 10 August 2020, 08:11:50 »
The Home Clans were on a way towards hardcore Clan chauvinism. Given their experiences in the WoR and they did make responsible the Tainted Influence of the Inner Sphere as the reasons for this apocalyptic event I believe they might have finally decided that only they can build a new Society worthy of what Kerensky wanted and the old Star League stood for.

So they might decided that they do not want any contact with any other factions but themselves.

Given their advancement of their technology, I think even after the distrust and decimation of the scientists, they could have found a way to get the scientists motivated and innovative.
Remember the old mafia-like structures of the scientist caste were annihlated in the WoR. Most of the old died or were removed from the caste. While this means the caste had to be rebuilt from ground-zero, there is the chance that the old ways died and the new scientists know what their tasks are and want to prove themselves.
A good pool to recruit new scientists is, IMHO, the Technician caste.
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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #56 on: 10 August 2020, 09:09:53 »
 The home clans need to migrate. They can migrate well beyond the homeworld, yet still head away from the Inner Sphere.

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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #57 on: 10 August 2020, 09:57:12 »
The Home Clans were on a way towards hardcore Clan chauvinism. Given their experiences in the WoR and they did make responsible the Tainted Influence of the Inner Sphere as the reasons for this apocalyptic event I believe they might have finally decided that only they can build a new Society worthy of what Kerensky wanted and the old Star League stood for.

So they might decided that they do not want any contact with any other factions but themselves.

Given their advancement of their technology, I think even after the distrust and decimation of the scientists, they could have found a way to get the scientists motivated and innovative.
Remember the old mafia-like structures of the scientist caste were annihlated in the WoR. Most of the old died or were removed from the caste. While this means the caste had to be rebuilt from ground-zero, there is the chance that the old ways died and the new scientists know what their tasks are and want to prove themselves.
A good pool to recruit new scientists is, IMHO, the Technician caste.

Except the Cobras failed in a raid in '88- which would also be 'four' generations nearly into the recovery.  The Cobras with a supposed technical edge and warship were unable to beat a mostly 3025-equipped force.  No other Homie, if they knew about it, went after the Hansa to 'prove' the Homies were capable of wrecking a Hansa formation.

Nothing in Crusade or Reaving/Post-Reaving materials suggest the Homies having improved their tech-base you want to be taken as a 'given,' instead indicators are they have slipped.  They lost their experts in warship construction when the Ravens left, GC tells us what happens when rookies try to build warships.  Look at the list of designs they are no longer building- designs created by the tainted Clans were not indicated to be replaced with purists.  The scientists were not decimated (1 in 10) but were outright purged- particularly the Coyotes who had provided two innovations among the Clans, Omnis & ATMs.  The other two innovators created the Elemental and Heavy Laser . . . the Horses that were left that became Lions were not left with the best lower caste from what were the Horses- they got the ones left behind at best, or more probably what the Adders gave them.  Adder scientists- the Heavy Laser . . . says enough.  Finally, it does not work that way and history is replete with examples but that is #4 territory- I can send a list by PM if you wish.

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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #58 on: 10 August 2020, 10:00:32 »
On a completely different note I like the Rhino but wish the Ram Plate had a more formal presentation than what's on P. 30. I'm sure someone will ask questions about costs, availability, pod-mountability, etc. and BV.

Other than that I love the new BattleMechs from the Imperio: They're logical developments from the Imperio's MilitiaMechs. The fact that the Scorpion Empire now has factories capable of producing Clantech, combined with the factories they took from the Hansas could really make them a challenge for Home Clans or even the Horses.
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Re: Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade
« Reply #59 on: 10 August 2020, 10:08:20 »
the OTP ends in 3140. sounds like enough time to get consolidated and show up in the main plotline within 10-15 years.

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