Author Topic: VotW: Mithras  (Read 3165 times)

JadeHellbringer

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VotW: Mithras
« on: 12 February 2020, 21:53:52 »


NOTE: A couple of half-finished –otW articles popped up on an old USB drive recently. I need the drive for work, so I’ve polished up these turds and am posting them over the next couple of days rather than let the effort go to waste.

The Clans have a very odd view on combat vehicles- it’s not that they’re useless, but they like to pretend they are. The idea of a unit that requires teamwork to function fills them with revulsion (never mind that a Point of battle armor do exactly this)- but, at the end of the day, a Battlemech is a resource-intensive unit that may not always fit the job. Clan security forces, for example, needed a capable light tank that could perform garrison duty on the cheap, and the Mithras was a reasonable solution. Let’s give this underappreciated, homely little guy a look.

The Mithras weighs a mere 25 tons, and as a result we can’t expect it to be a powerhouse- few units at this size are, after all. The Clans weren’t exactly in ‘spare no expense’ mode for a garrison tank, but their standard technology still gives the little tank some advantages that its IS cousins simply can’t match. The IS Scorpion provides a good comparison, if only to highlight this- it’s slower, outgunned, outranged, and otherwise simply outclassed by its Clan cousin, and even the venerable Vedette is no match despite being double the weight!

The crew of two sit in a vehicle that looks more like a Mad Max-esque repurposing of a bulldozer into a makeshift tank, and there’s probably something to be said for that- the Clans didn’t want to put resources into vehicle design, so using existing units as a basis (as the Ku did with the old SLDF Turhan, or the Zorya seems to have done with arctic vehicles) likely was a staple of their designs- so construction equipment may very well have been the basis here. The looks aside, few bulldozers will be able to boast this kind of performance- while the Mithras isn’t going to break records for speed, it uses a 150-rated fusion engine to rumble along at a respectable 6/9, which is plenty enough to pace most combat situations. That fusion motor gives the little tank a big boost in capability compared to its IS cousins, as we will see when we look at its loadouts.
Light tanks simply can’t carry heavy armor, there’s no way around it. And yet, the Mithras manages to be surprisingly tough for its size. Ferro-Fibrous armor is utilized here, surprisingly enough on a garrison unit, but there’s still only three and a half tons of the stuff. Against lighter weaponry, it’s a respectable shell that will stand up to a surprising punishment, though heavy weaponry will simply end a Mithras (as one would expect). 16 points up front will hold out a Gauss hit, if only once, while 14 points cover the sides and turret. A worrying nine points on the derriere sounds reasonable at first, but considering Clan weaponry it’s a one-hit reprieve and little more.

The classic loadout for a garrison tank like the Scorpion is a low-end autocannon backed by a machine gun. The Clans went about things a little differently here, with the AC/5 of the old designs replaced here by an Ultra AC/2. This gun is heavy for a 25-ton tank, with only minor damage to show for that weight, but it also doesn’t require heat sinks. One ton of ammo (protected by CASE, as always on a Clan unit) is plenty for most engagements, even at a double rate of fire- remember that as a garrison unit, the Mithras will rarely stray from supply lines to go on the attack, so ammo concerns are likely rare in most situations. The gun has absurd ranges, meaning that a Mithras can start chattering at its enemy long before they can likely fire back- and with the respectable ground speed, the Mithras can back away to keep that range advantage if the situation allows for it. Two points isn’t much, but it is likely rare to only encounter one Mithras at a time.

A co-axially mounted ER medium laser backs the cannon, with a second one mounted in a casemate mounting facing forward. These are a joyous addition to the tank, delivering a massive punch for a small tank. They nicely use up the engine’s heat sinks as well. While an MG and ammo might be handy in case of infantry concerns (Dark Caste, sohlama, etc.), the light show from a Mithras is a serious threat to small armored units like light Battlemechs- in testing, a Point of Mithras regularly took on light Clan Mechs with ease, and at one point even took down a Galahad through lucky  hits and bad aim by the Mechwarrior.
A variant was released in the Jihad era, and it’s a lot of fun to play with, if a little bland. The weaponry is removed entirely, but the engine and armor remain the same as ever. The cannon is replaced with an ER large laser, a big upgrade at a glance over the pitiful damage the autocannon provided and with similar range. However, two extra tons had to be applied to this weapon for added heat sinks, souring the idea slightly. An AP Gauss rifle with 40 rounds of ammo replaces the forward-mounted laser, providing handy advice for infantry looking to cause problems. And a targeting computer is always a welcome addition to a sniper unit like this, particularly with Clan vehicle crews being… shall we say, ‘less than skilled’ generally. It’s a handy unit, and pairs well with the original actually, but if you really need a light Clan vehicle to provide long-range ERLL support the Donar (particularly the second variant) is probably a better choice.

Small, ugly, surprisingly tough, and a bulldog in a fight. It’s not much to look at, true, but both versions of the Mithras demand respect, and woe to the unsuspecting commander who doesn’t give the proper respect.
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But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
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Empyrus

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Re: VotW: Mithras
« Reply #1 on: 13 February 2020, 09:07:13 »
You know, you just sold me a Clan vehicle.
Mad Max looks, long range, passable mobility and armor for its size... yeah, sure, why not.

Pity the thing is extinct after the Jihad, presumably this means it may be found in the Homeworlds but that's all.

grimlock1

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Re: VotW: Mithras
« Reply #2 on: 13 February 2020, 09:46:07 »
As polarizing and full of questionable engineering decisions as Plog's TRO 3060 vehicle art is, I really like the vibe.  His vehicles look like they would be amazing in motion, with turrets slewing and uAC barrel clusters spinning.
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Wrangler

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Re: VotW: Mithras
« Reply #3 on: 13 February 2020, 10:18:15 »
Nice see a shiny new article from you Jade. Your articles always insightful and amusing.
The Mithras seems to be good fighter. Its been awhile since i glanced at it. It certainly makes it interesting machine on the field when full star of them unleashes fire power of pew pew on some one.
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Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: VotW: Mithras
« Reply #4 on: 13 February 2020, 10:25:36 »
As polarizing and full of questionable engineering decisions as Plog's TRO 3060 vehicle art is, I really like the vibe.  His vehicles look like they would be amazing in motion, with turrets slewing and uAC barrel clusters spinning.

Even assuming two tanks to a point?  That is two to four 2 point plinks at range, and also consider the nature of the warriors and their training?  They have what the Sphere considers "Green" crews.  So an average of three two point hits, assuming the cannons don't jam, and needing only a couple ten point smacks anywhere to kill one.

Really I'd flip things around, and give it an energy big main gun.  Specifically the nearly broken Clan Large Pulse Laser.  That gives it a good reach, and the pulse bonus means even a Clan tank crew has a fair chance at hitting at long range, vs the UAC/2's "Spray and Pray".

Naturally this would require removing the pair of ERMLs.  You could stuff in a SRM-4 or Streak SRM-2 missile back to bring the alpha damage back up.  But I'd lean towards protection, putting in a AMS and using the remaining half ton for armor.  The AMS gives protection from infernos, Elemental SRMs, and LRM fire trying to attirt them.
« Last Edit: 13 February 2020, 14:41:39 by Nikas_Zekeval »

Colt Ward

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Re: VotW: Mithras
« Reply #5 on: 13 February 2020, 11:09:09 »
You know, you just sold me a Clan vehicle.
Mad Max looks, long range, passable mobility and armor for its size... yeah, sure, why not.

Pity the thing is extinct after the Jihad, presumably this means it may be found in the Homeworlds but that's all.

Not sure its extinct really- the Steel Wolves had some and when their faction splintered some were part of the pair of binaries (IIRC) that went to join Jacob's Juggernauts.  I think they had two points along with some other Clan vehicles.

Nikas, I think you are overlooking that the ideal with the Mithras is not to be plinking at long range (but why not? you have the ammo to spare) but that its mid-range overlaps a LOT of other weapons long range.  With a medium range of 10-18 hexes, its going to have a better chance of hitting with the green crews than say a Clan vehicle armed with ERMLs or LRMs for most that bracket . . . and definitely better range brackets than they would facing old SLDF vehicles.  As much as I love the Chevalier's looks and smart weapon choices (Oh for a Scorpion or HH Chevalier C!) the Mithras being at medium range for nearly all of the Chevalier's long range bracket gives it a much better chance to knock out the other (heavier) light tank.  It also gives it at least one chance to plink SL-era hovertanks trying to get into range as most have short ranged weapons.  How good that chance is will honestly depend on initiative to see if with its movement curve it can get 2 turns with its medium range bracket.

The things not bad, and like the Scorpion its a design to get burned up . . . but it would be interesting to see a Clan armor formation hitting a regular or garrison FedCom formation.  I really wonder how . . . say a Ghost Bear vehicle trinary would do up against a FRR garrison-quality armor battalion- Mithras, Zoyra, Ku and some of the other smaller non-Horse exclusive designs vs Condors, Hetzers, Vedettes and Scorpions.  Now I am going to have to find someone to play some MM, lol.
Colt Ward
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: VotW: Mithras
« Reply #6 on: 13 February 2020, 11:30:11 »
Ooooooh, a mention of the Zorya... stay tuned... like, this weekend probably. (Tonight is the Dart)
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Colt Ward

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Re: VotW: Mithras
« Reply #7 on: 13 February 2020, 11:38:27 »
Ooooooh, a mention of the Zorya... stay tuned... like, this weekend probably. (Tonight is the Dart)

Haha . . . LOVE the Zorya for some reason, hate the art and my mind blanks it for the traditional tank shape.  I always tried to get one when playing the Clans on a server.  I think it might be one of the best light tanks in the whole game for what it offers.

So here is a question for folks when thinking about Clan vehicles- Do you think the Horses field this vehicle in their frontline clusters?

With the Mithras, I am going to have to say its not likely.  While the pop-gun gives it the range to be a good skirmish unit and able to cover the flanks on slower formations (4/6 & 5/8), I think its thin armor would prevent it from being fielded in the front lines.
Colt Ward
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Maelwys

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Re: VotW: Mithras
« Reply #8 on: 13 February 2020, 12:31:16 »
I mean, its not like there are a bunch of choices if you want a quick, light-weight tank for your formations, especially prior to the Jihad.

The Zorya is 10 tons heavier, but slower and lighter armor surprisingly. The Odin is lighter and faster, but less armor and more of a short range fighter, and is wheeled, rather than tracked, so limited there as well.

So I think they would. They're not exactly spoiled for choice, though to be fair, I might take the Indra with its ERPPC and better armor over this, even if its slower.

On the other hand, opponents might feel the need to get rid of the Indra and its ERPPC quickly, while the Mithras might skate by.

Colt Ward

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Re: VotW: Mithras
« Reply #9 on: 13 February 2020, 13:29:43 »
Well, to correct . . . I would expect the Horse's frontline to use either their hovercraft- Epona or SL era- or use Ares which at 40t is not a light but close enough and with the ranged weapon.  The Zorya would not be filling the roll, I always see it behind the mech's battle line providing ECM support, AA duty with the LBX, and LRMs for fire support to finish something off.

The Mithras to me would be in secondline or garrison clusters and able to carry out the scouting role and as described screening on the flanks.  It would be great on the wings executing a envelopment maneuver since that UAC/2 gives them the reach to plink at anything trying to skate by and if they get close to try to collapse the wing, the four ERMLs in a point could hurt.
Colt Ward
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Cannonshop

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Re: VotW: Mithras
« Reply #10 on: 13 February 2020, 14:38:06 »
I think you guys are missing something here: The Ultra 2 isn't the main gun. It's the coax to the main gun-a Clan ER Medium Laser.  REmember your VEhicle tABLES!!

here is a tracked vehicle, that means it's meant to park in a good spot and fire.  The movement is just to get it to that good spot to park.

The Ultra-2 is there to shoot at helicopters and fast-movers at range, the main intent is to park somewhere in a point or pairing, and peel armor with those Medium Lasers while most probable incoming fire is chewing the treads off.

(this is also why the Ares medium tank has those ridiculously tall treads on a low-hanging hull-the Tracks are there to be removed and keep soaking fire while  you're parked in a parking garage.)

« Last Edit: 15 February 2020, 17:57:57 by Cannonshop »
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Empyrus

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Re: VotW: Mithras
« Reply #11 on: 13 February 2020, 14:46:04 »
The Mithras doesn't seem like it will survive combat at cERML range. I figure the lasers are more like "keep away" and for last ditch attacks.

EDIT Also the Ultra has no to-hit bonus. If it were LB-X...

Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: VotW: Mithras
« Reply #12 on: 13 February 2020, 14:57:33 »
The Mithras doesn't seem like it will survive combat at cERML range. I figure the lasers are more like "keep away" and for last ditch attacks.

EDIT Also the Ultra has no to-hit bonus. If it were LB-X...

Particularly when the average Clan Vehicle crew is effectively a Green Inner Sphere crew.  With a base gunnery of 5?  You are essentially throwing away the long range bracket.  Which is why I suggested the Clan LPL as a replacement main gun.  Besides over twice the maximum damage and three times the average damage of double tap mode?  The pulse bonus means it is at least as likely to hit over the ranges the crew can reasonably expect to nail a moving target.  At certain range bands it is even more accurate.

Sure the UAC/2 can reach 27 hexes to a CLPL's 20.  BUT the pulse bonus means the crew can realistically use the Laser's full effective range, while hitting a moving target beyond 18 hexes for most Clan tank crews is going to be blind luck.

Empyrus

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Re: VotW: Mithras
« Reply #13 on: 13 February 2020, 15:57:01 »
A LPL attracts too much attention, especially considering the mediocre speed and low armor. I grant that the hit bonus is good though.

I'm not inclined to attack beyond 18 hexes with UAC/2 though. I'm hopeful my enemy is at long range while i'm at medium, and that they're not really interested in an UAC/2 carrier...


Maelwys

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Re: VotW: Mithras
« Reply #14 on: 13 February 2020, 16:08:12 »
The Mithras to me would be in secondline or garrison clusters and able to carry out the scouting role and as described screening on the flanks. 

Sure, its possible to use those, but there Mithras fits in too, and BT has never been about using the best thing all the time.

There's no real IC reason to exclude the Mithras from frontline service.

Jellico

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Re: VotW: Mithras
« Reply #15 on: 13 February 2020, 16:21:00 »
The UAC2 just means a massive medium range bracket.

If you have ever used the Pike C you know the UAC2 is an awesome anti tank weapon. I would take two Points on Mithras against any assault tank in the game

JadeHellbringer

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Re: VotW: Mithras
« Reply #16 on: 14 February 2020, 22:57:30 »
The UAC2 just means a massive medium range bracket.

If you have ever used the Pike C you know the UAC2 is an awesome anti tank weapon. I would take two Points on Mithras against any assault tank in the game

And being that it's a tank, there's not really a whole lot of honor attached, so zellbrigen is out the window. Which means a single Mithras is annoying, a point of them is doubly-so, and the more points you add to the equation all chattering at once the danger grows exponentially. They start shooting when you haven't got any ability to respond, they start getting decent to-hit numbers before many units can fire anything at all in reply, and those shots do add up eventually. Any one of them can be a golden BB- and no one wants to be the guy who got knocked out by a retrofitted bulldozer, right?
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RevenVrake

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Re: VotW: Mithras
« Reply #17 on: 15 February 2020, 16:13:57 »
I have to ask, would an LBX-AC/2 with cluster ammunition work just as well? Sure you don't get as much damage but you get 3 extra hexes of range plus the nice -1 to shooting...

grimlock1

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Re: VotW: Mithras
« Reply #18 on: 15 February 2020, 16:29:29 »
I have to ask, would an LBX-AC/2 with cluster ammunition work just as well? Sure you don't get as much damage but you get 3 extra hexes of range plus the nice -1 to shooting...
Personally, I think so. 
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Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

marauder648

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Re: VotW: Mithras
« Reply #19 on: 16 February 2020, 17:56:40 »
Having been shot at by Pike's or using them to pelt opponents with large volumes of dakka, the Mithras basically is a Pike IIC, it can door ding at long range and really annoy/irritate and even get lucky. Give them clear lines of fire and you'll hate the little things as you can try ignoring them but if there's a gaggle of them pelting away at you, how many dinks, bangs and wallops are you going to take before you go "FINE!" and have to divert to kill them?

Great review of a very underrated tank :)
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