Author Topic: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom  (Read 126189 times)

Minemech

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #930 on: 05 February 2024, 20:35:11 »
The Combine isn't buying. The FedSuns isn't buying. So, who IS buying?
The Alliance also had connections with other periphery states.

Decoy

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #931 on: 05 February 2024, 20:38:14 »
Yes....So, the guys who can only afford penny candy are the ones buying?

Minemech

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #932 on: 05 February 2024, 20:40:45 »
Yes....So, the guys who can only afford penny candy are the ones buying?
The Taurians/Calderon Protectorate, and the Canopians could probably buy what they want. The Marians are questionable.

Maingunnery

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #933 on: 05 February 2024, 20:41:35 »
The Combine isn't buying. The FedSuns isn't buying. So, who IS buying?
What makes you think the FedSuns weren't willing to buy? The relation was alright until they got stood up and afterwards they are too desperate for anything.

Also just check the MUL list of the Gossamer, all those factions are willing to buy RA equipment.
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Minemech

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #934 on: 05 February 2024, 20:47:44 »
 I just looked at the MUL and I am stunned that they are not in the hands of periphery states.

tassa_kay

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #935 on: 05 February 2024, 20:54:34 »
Well, as noted, the Ravens are having the Foxes make Gossamer sales by proxy, and we’ve also seen them make that fun little sales pitch of the Blood Asp to the Canopians. So it’s not like they aren’t exporting anything at all, and no one here has claimed otherwise. The point is that, even with their exports, their economy still sucks because it’s not integrated and the Alliance simply isn’t an industrial powerhouse with a big client list. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive, you know.
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Minemech

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #936 on: 05 February 2024, 21:12:49 »
 VTOLs should be easily mass produced, but when you remember that it uses a fusion engine, the lower volume makes sense given how the Alliance has been historically fluffed. Very weak industrial base + fusion engine, ouch.

Generic Clanner 24601

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #937 on: 05 February 2024, 23:52:56 »
I think the industrial problem is not really a problem. They are a part of the Star League. I doubt Alaric is going to let their fleet sit there because they don't have the resources to reactivate it.

I see two possibilities:

1) Alaric sends them the resources they need to bind them even more to the Star league.

2) Alaric tells them to take full control of the Alliance and force the Outworlders into subjugation (hey, why not start two civil wars?).

Metallgewitter

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #938 on: 06 February 2024, 07:17:18 »
The Ravens did actually reactivate their entire fleet (I think it was noted either in ER 3145 or FM 3145) but it also stretched the Alliance economy thin. And while Alaric now holds Terra that is Terra alone. His other conquests in Prefecture X are unguarded (and possibly swallowed by the Capellans) while he has no real communication with his Empire except via the Foxes. So what could he send the Ravens? Plus the Titan Yards over Terra can so far only offer basic maintenance but no production. Of course that is a point where the Ravens might offer help (perhaps also reactivating the Republic's 3 remaining Faslane yardships should they not have been written out of existence)

Minemech

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #939 on: 06 February 2024, 16:08:40 »
The Ravens are not really the type who care for slavery. In addition to their extreme reluctance towards allowing others to enter their family, they were one of the Clans who sided with the Wolverines when they were embarrassing Nicholas Kerensky by doing things like making life tolerable.

tassa_kay

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #940 on: 06 February 2024, 17:07:39 »
The Ravens are not really the type who care for slavery. In addition to their extreme reluctance towards allowing others to enter their family, they were one of the Clans who sided with the Wolverines when they were embarrassing Nicholas Kerensky by doing things like making life tolerable.

I don’t think this is an accurate assessment.

The Ravens definitely didn’t side with the Wolverines, especially after Dehra Dun, despite Joyce Merrill’s friendship with Sarah McEvedy and her own knowledge of the truth about what happened to Dehra Dun. Their own (rewritten) history shows that they clearly didn’t side with the Wolverines.

And their insular nature seems to be a warrior caste thing; they still take bondsmen from other Clans, they’re just very reluctant to accept them into the warrior caste and even more reluctant to allow them to rise to high rank. Has nothing at all to do with a distaste for the process itself, but rather a reluctance to put any trust in outsiders.

The only reason they haven’t forced the Outworlders to do their dirty work for them (i.e., put them to work without paying them) is because they don’t want to risk what social cohesion they do have. FM:3145’s Alpha Galaxy fluff clearly indicates that the Ravens have no problem lording their power over the civvies and massacring them if they protest.
« Last Edit: 06 February 2024, 17:12:03 by tassa_kay »
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Minemech

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #941 on: 06 February 2024, 17:33:50 »
I don’t think this is an accurate assessment.

The Ravens definitely didn’t side with the Wolverines, especially after Dehra Dun, despite Joyce Merrill’s friendship with Sarah McEvedy and her own knowledge of the truth about what happened to Dehra Dun. Their own (rewritten) history shows that they clearly didn’t side with the Wolverines.

And their insular nature seems to be a warrior caste thing; they still take bondsmen from other Clans, they’re just very reluctant to accept them into the warrior caste and even more reluctant to allow them to rise to high rank. Has nothing at all to do with a distaste for the process itself, but rather a reluctance to put any trust in outsiders.

The only reason they haven’t forced the Outworlders to do their dirty work for them (i.e., put them to work without paying them) is because they don’t want to risk what social cohesion they do have. FM:3145’s Alpha Galaxy fluff clearly indicates that the Ravens have no problem lording their power over the civvies and massacring them if they protest.
If you are saying that the Ravens stood with Nicholas in the end, you are right, but they were undeniably allies before so. The Ravens maneuvered themselves in such a way as to avoid their own annihilation as has been their way. The Ravens are survivors. Nicholas made some fairly character defining moves to coerce the Ravens into cooperation, including his role in the false flag nuclear detonation. The Raven khan figured things out in the end.

 

tassa_kay

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #942 on: 06 February 2024, 19:05:28 »
If you are saying that the Ravens stood with Nicholas in the end, you are right, but they were undeniably allies before so. The Ravens maneuvered themselves in such a way as to avoid their own annihilation as has been their way. The Ravens are survivors. Nicholas made some fairly character defining moves to coerce the Ravens into cooperation, including his role in the false flag nuclear detonation. The Raven khan figured things out in the end.

Except literally none of this matters now. The Ravens of the current era are not aware of any of this, because they rewrote their own history per Nicholas’ wishes. Therefore it has no bearing on the current era whatsoever. You can’t ascribe characteristics to the Ravens that they themselves excised centuries ago.

And the Ravens didn’t do any maneuvering to avoid their own Annihilation, because they never stood openly with the Wolverines once they were targeted by Nicholas. The only Clan that even came close to doing so, the Blood Spirits, were censured by the Grand Council and targeted by the Burrocks and others for punishment. Not so the Ravens.

Oh, and then there’s this passage from the first chapter of Betrayal of Ideals: “Joyce Merrell, Khan of the Snow Ravens. Her presence would be much more pleasant. While Khan Merrell was far from being an ally of McEvedy and her Wolverines, they did share the same values and she appeared to be open to new ideas and thoughts, as opposed to Karrige and his Widowmakers.”
« Last Edit: 07 February 2024, 00:17:09 by tassa_kay »
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Cannonshop

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #943 on: 06 February 2024, 20:19:14 »
Well the only way that makes sense is a complete and utter incompetence of the Merchant Caste. The infrastructure is all there and they seem unable to sell the most desired products of the era.

I didn't say it made sense, it's what's established in the Canon. 

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« Last Edit: 06 February 2024, 21:06:28 by Cannonshop »
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Templar87

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #944 on: 07 February 2024, 04:12:29 »
What makes you think the FedSuns weren't willing to buy? The relation was alright until they got stood up and afterwards they are too desperate for anything.


Per RG 12, the FS aren't dealing with the Ravens save with weapons fire after Palmyra;


Quote
The Ravens were deeply disturbed when recent clashes with the Federated Suns revealed the Davions using a weapon that ignored the Clan’s precious ferro-lamellor armor. Though re-engineered lasers had been deployed for several years, the Ravens had discounted them as an inferior Spheroid development. Khan McKenna wanted to acquire some of these weapons for study, but after Palmyra the Suns was open to neither Raven merchants nor friendly Trials.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #945 on: 07 February 2024, 06:47:58 »

Per RG 12, the FS aren't dealing with the Ravens save with weapons fire after Palmyra;

Not to mention taking Milligan right after the Suns have manged to beat back the Combine. I see a new conflict brewing which might cost the Ravens more then they are willing to invest

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #946 on: 07 February 2024, 11:51:56 »
Just another side note about the Wolverine connection. Don’t forget Khan Stephen McKenna was there happily blowing apart Wolverine Warships and whatnot with his part of the Raven Fleet.

Joyce Merrell was a friend to Sarah McEvedy…. But sadly that’s about it. Then Dehra Dun and Great Hope (? The city the Widowmakers nuked) and Joyce’s talk with Nicholas … well Annihilation was called and sadly friendships and rewritten history.

Cannonshop

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #947 on: 07 February 2024, 22:39:20 »

Per RG 12, the FS aren't dealing with the Ravens save with weapons fire after Palmyra;

The sad part is, Palmyra was practically pre-ordained to be a disaster before the first boots assembled, and had the Ravens done what Caleb wanted, the only difference would have been drawing out the dying and possibly losing TWO states instead of risking one.

Caleb's plan was neither tactically, nor strategically sound.  Sterling letting Caleb hang was stategically the only move that wasn't suicidally stupid.

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Fire Scorpion IIC

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #948 on: 08 February 2024, 10:00:50 »
The sad part is, Palmyra was practically pre-ordained to be a disaster before the first boots assembled, and had the Ravens done what Caleb wanted, the only difference would have been drawing out the dying and possibly losing TWO states instead of risking one.

Caleb's plan was neither tactically, nor strategically sound.  Sterling letting Caleb hang was stategically the only move that wasn't suicidally stupid.

Spot on

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Elcor05

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #949 on: 10 February 2024, 06:51:25 »
So I was just checking on the MUL for the Raven Alliance, and noticed that the Ravens now use a lot of formerly IS only battle armors like the Simian or the Taranis (being the only remaining users aside from Mercs in the ilClan era.) Is there a lore reason for this? I'm not complaining, I love the Ravens collecting any and everything, I'm just curious.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #950 on: 10 February 2024, 07:47:49 »
That is interesting. The Taranis is build on Terra and the Simian build on Devil's Rock (per TRO 3145). Are the Ravens perhaps now owner of Devil's Rock as part of a deal with the Wolves? And perhaps also having taken the Taranis manufacturing center? I mean alaric could in theory throw a lot of production from Terra aroundf as payment as they probably have way more machines then actual soldiers / warriors

Minemech

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #951 on: 10 February 2024, 10:10:22 »
So I was just checking on the MUL for the Raven Alliance, and noticed that the Ravens now use a lot of formerly IS only battle armors like the Simian or the Taranis (being the only remaining users aside from Mercs in the ilClan era.) Is there a lore reason for this? I'm not complaining, I love the Ravens collecting any and everything, I'm just curious.
Historically speaking, the Ravens are used to working with poor resources and surviving. The Ravens prioritize surviving, and the honor of their Clan. This has led them to work outside of typical Clan structures, particularly ones designed by Kerensky. This extends even into internal and external affairs where they were master political players, yet always avoided moving into absorption/annihilation territory. They were able to do this due to the need for their vast warfleet, but after the Adders absorbed the Burrocks, the Ravens knew their time was limited and packed their bags and left in time. Those same principles apply in their new setting. The OWA differs a bit in that it is resource rich, but lacks the heavy industry the Clan needs.

tassa_kay

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #952 on: 10 February 2024, 13:09:20 »
Sterling did some shopping while she was on Terra. Everything was on clearance!
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BrianDavion

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #953 on: 19 February 2024, 15:59:02 »
that's the most likely answer, the sea foxes likely have spread ROTS wares throughout the clans.
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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #954 on: 19 February 2024, 17:19:03 »
Sea Foxes can get you anything… no questions asked except ‘With what type of payment will you be paying with today?’

Metallgewitter

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #955 on: 20 February 2024, 03:47:17 »
Now I imagine this one scene from the movie Lord of War where Yuri ask if his customer wants the M60 with the armor piercing bullets but the Fox merchant asks "you want the improved heavy lasers?"

Cannonshop

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #956 on: 21 February 2024, 01:13:56 »
Historically speaking, the Ravens are used to working with poor resources and surviving. The Ravens prioritize surviving, and the honor of their Clan. This has led them to work outside of typical Clan structures, particularly ones designed by Kerensky. This extends even into internal and external affairs where they were master political players, yet always avoided moving into absorption/annihilation territory. They were able to do this due to the need for their vast warfleet, but after the Adders absorbed the Burrocks, the Ravens knew their time was limited and packed their bags and left in time. Those same principles apply in their new setting. The OWA differs a bit in that it is resource rich, but lacks the heavy industry the Clan needs.

It could also be that those IS designs are...well...better.  not better as in protection, or firepower, or mobility.

But 'better' the way an AK-47 is a better choice for a budget-constrained military than buying the latest and niftiest from Desert tech out of Arizona.  It doesn't have as many features and the parts are simple...and durable...and don't cost as much to make or replace better.

After all, the weapon you can keep running in the field, is worth ten in the shop being maintained, or twenty you're still waiting on the orders to be filled by the manufacturer.

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Rainbow 6

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #957 on: 01 April 2024, 03:10:43 »
The Combine isn't buying. The FedSuns isn't buying. So, who IS buying?

Just catching up after some time off the forums, but you would think the Foxes would be buying anything the Ravens want to sell for resale in to third parties, we know from the recguides that this is happening with the Stormcrow, so should also be occurring with Jumpships, Dropships and other Omni/Battlemechs.

Rainbow 6

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #958 on: 01 April 2024, 03:11:44 »
The Alliance also had connections with other periphery states.

Indeed, they're getting their Marauder -2T's from somewhere, makes you wonder why they are being modified to a C 2 standard though.

Rainbow 6

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Re: Raven Alliance: The Shiny Red Button of Orbital Doom
« Reply #959 on: 01 April 2024, 08:22:31 »
I've been looking for any information on the colour scheme for the Alliance Grenadiers, nothing on Camo Specs so was wondering if anyone on here knew anything, otherwise thinking of doing them in a flat primer grey for the most part given the Outworlds historic lack of spending on the ground defence arm.