Author Topic: Crusader-Warden political spectrum - Who goes where?  (Read 2817 times)

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Crusader-Warden political spectrum - Who goes where?
« Reply #60 on: 16 February 2024, 19:38:17 »
It is really quite astonishing that some Clan didn't just say screw the Council we'll launch our own invasion to take over the Inner Sphere then come back and take over with our captured resources.
There's always an AU in the Ice Hellions attempt to invade the IS in the early 3000s.  In canon it caused a civil war in the clan, but what if they doubled down and went all-in on attacking the IS at the nadir point of technology?
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Fire Scorpion IIC

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Re: Crusader-Warden political spectrum - Who goes where?
« Reply #61 on: 16 February 2024, 20:03:50 »
Speaking of Hellions there's also the very in-lore question of Wylie's Coyotes mercenary outfit which popped up the same time as Wolf's Dragoons

Orwell84

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Re: Crusader-Warden political spectrum - Who goes where?
« Reply #62 on: 16 February 2024, 23:06:24 »
One less noble aspect of the Warden philosophy came to mind when I was reading about Clan Coyote's history. When the issue first became important enough to merit Grand Council debate, the Coyotes were a (if not the) preeminent Clan in terms of territory and might. Then there is their conservative bent in social terms.

Reading between the lines, the Coyotes' motives for championing the Warden cause seem less like altruistic care for the Spheroids and more about preserving the status quo in Clan Space where they would remain top dog (pun intended). Given that their Wolf ally was co-dominant at the same time, this may have been a factor for the Wolves as well.

An invasion of the Inner Sphere would have upset that and given previously weaker Clans the resources to challenge Coyote supremacy - though as it turned out, the Crusaders managed to erode that anyway within half a century. One could claim that had the Coyotes instead tilted the balance towards the Crusaders in 3000 they might have had a decent shot at becoming ilClan.
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tassa_kay

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Re: Crusader-Warden political spectrum - Who goes where?
« Reply #63 on: 18 February 2024, 09:31:32 »
The Wardens just never sold me that they had a vision for what they (the Clans) could be while at least the Crusaders had a plan, a terrible plan, but at least a plan of action other then just screw off and stay apart.

That's exactly what I was trying to say before. The Crusaders, for all of their faults (and they are many), at least had a goal and the will to carry it out. The Wardens' only goal seemed to be to stymie the Crusaders' efforts, like they existed only to thwart them. The only vision the Wardens ever seemed to have was to stay in the Homeworlds forever.

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It is really quite astonishing that some Clan didn't just say screw the Council we'll launch our own invasion to take over the Inner Sphere then come back and take over with our captured resources.

I chalk this one up to the Clans being conditioned for groupthink, and the fact that any Clan that did try to go off on their own would almost certainly get their Homeworld holdings gobbled up and, if caught doing it, would get dogpiled on for stepping out of line.
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Metallgewitter

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Re: Crusader-Warden political spectrum - Who goes where?
« Reply #64 on: 19 February 2024, 07:16:28 »
Well it could always be a "hey now we are only doing our little exploration missions here. we might have taken the wrong jump" excuse. And something a trial can fix as well (if said trial is won)

The Warden might be less a Warden of the IS but rather a Warden of the Clan's lifestyle. As shown from the invasion and the "corruption" of the Clans that came into long term contact with the IS and especially it's forces the Clans began to change. Jealousy began to build and the Invader Clans suddenly had to deal with people they are not used to their "style2 of goverment while also suddenly having ressources in abundance which runs counter to Nicolas principle of a rather spartan lifestyle. Add in to that that the Invaders were suddenly fighting "dirty" and you can see how the idea of Corruption spread (that and getting their collectivae asses beat by the IS in 3061 on their own Capital)

smdvogrin

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Re: Crusader-Warden political spectrum - Who goes where?
« Reply #65 on: 21 February 2024, 08:28:49 »
I chalk this one up to the Clans being conditioned for groupthink, and the fact that any Clan that did try to go off on their own would almost certainly get their Homeworld holdings gobbled up and, if caught doing it, would get dogpiled on for stepping out of line.

"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness.", you might say.