Androids aka Infantry Drones in BT?

[HABeas2]

My search foo worked! Yay!  ;D
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=37372.msg864709#msg864709
 >:D

Fascinating. Wonder where I put that reference I used? Clearly it doesn't match the scraps of info Sarna had.

- Herb

[RifleMech]

I don't know. I'm just happy I found it.  ;D

[glitterboy2098]

Technically wouldn't the "automated mannequins of dubious moral value" produced on Dustball and mention in the old house Steiner guidebook count?

[Maingunnery]

Technically wouldn't the "automated mannequins of dubious moral value" produced on Dustball and mention in the old house Steiner guidebook count?

But what would be the stats?
1 point of very soft armor?  ;)

[HABeas2]

But what would be the stats?
1 point of very soft armor?  ;)

BAR 0/0/0/0

- Herb

[Mendrugo]

But what would be the stats?
1 point of very soft armor?  ;)

Not the versions they use on Hardcore.

[Talen5000]

Recently on Facebook, somebody asked, why we don't have a robotic humanoids, known otherwise as androids. Especially 100 years later, in 3150. The tech in BT would surely allow to create these, since we have Mechs, cybernetics and some sort of AI.

I think that Robotic Infantry would be nice to implement...

Robots and androids do exist and have existed in the BTU. Security droids,  mobile industrial robots for agriculture, construction, mining, etc. There are references to robotic sailriggers used on JumpShips and robotic tanks known as Guardians.

All present.

In universe, in the Inner Sphere, in the game, such units rare to the point of non existence.

Why?

No comprehensive reason is given. The true reason is that the BTU is written as a human centric universe and robots have a very limited role.

In universe, it isn't discussed but it can be presumed to fall into several categories.

Economic...in the typical time frame of the IS, the typical tech level of the IS appears to have settled around that of the late twentieth century. The support and manufacturing base needed to support androids and robots doesn't exist. With a large population base, there is also less economic pressure to re-develop the technology.

Technical...tying in with the economics, the robots that can be built are often not seen as being as flexible or as adaptable as humans. That could probably be remedied except the big reason seems to be.....

Cultural. There seems to be a general bias against robots, AI and human augmentation within the Inner Sphere. There have been several incidents which suggest robots going berserk has happened in the past, the FWL has its anti-cyberware bias, the Clans and WoB are seen as freaks, genetic science as a rule is not much different from today, genetic experiments such as Frobisher and the Toorima don't help.

In essence, the Inner Sphere doesn't appear to be a  culture that welcomes robots, or AIs and one can presume that there is a history or untold story that justifies this aversion. As it is, the only two faction noted as making widespread use of robots and AIs are Terra and the Clans...and the Clans appear happy to keep the technology out of the IS in order to keep their populations busy, tired and out of trouble

Terra? Neither ComStar nor WoB would have shared the tech, Devlin Stone was encouraged to do so but that doesn't mean he did so, or that the offer was accepted if he did. If there is a cultural aversion to robots within the IS,  it would be easy to see such help being rejected and seized upon to demonize the RotS.


 

[beachhead1985]

They also mention training androids in the Warrior Trilogy, as I recall.

[Maingunnery]

Most of these androids would be in the 50-100 kg range, would that require an additional BA weight class, or would it be better to introduce Bipedal/Quad Support Vehicles?

[beachhead1985]

Most of these androids would be in the 50-100 kg range, would that require an additional BA weight class, or would it be better to introduce Bipedal/Quad Support Vehicles?

Well...In terms of getting it on the table top...could you not just make them as a very light PA(L)/Exoskeleton and house-rule the pilot as a drone?

[Red Pins]

If I wanted Android Troopers, I would just steal from the BA construction rules and fluff accordingly.

Already done.

I'm working on a new project, the Blake Threat File, based in my AU.  Somebody made a small drone called a Killwasp on the forum, apparently using the support rules - it will be used to attack civilian populations in the AU.

Don't worry, Herb, they get nuked.  A lot.  Lots of evil stuff.

[HABeas2]

I'm working on a new project, the Blake Threat File, based in my AU.  Somebody made a small drone called a Killwasp on the forum, apparently using the support rules - it will be used to attack civilian populations in the AU.

Don't worry, Herb, they get nuked.  A lot.  Lots of evil stuff.

The civilians or the drones?

- Herb

[Red Pins]

Good guys, bad guys, drones, 'mechs, lots of civilians, a bunch of the surviving WoB Warships, a lot of Primitive Jumpships get scrapped, and a 1st SW-type warfare gets turned into a bug hunt for terrorists (hence the Killwasps).

You'd love it.   xp

[Wolf72]

Some one make Daleks!  No need to make them indestructible, this is a BT universe

robotic hover drone with an energy weapon (w/plenty of ammo/charges too).  Have a second vtol model as well.

[Maingunnery]

Well...In terms of getting it on the table top...could you not just make them as a very light PA(L)/Exoskeleton and house-rule the pilot as a drone?

That kinda feels bad to abstract all those things as a single overweight (for them) drone Exoskeleton.
The range and options of the SV system feels more natural, but sadly we don't have canon biped/quad construction values.

[HABeas2]

Some one make Daleks!  No need to make them indestructible, this is a BT universe

robotic hover drone with an energy weapon (w/plenty of ammo/charges too).  Have a second vtol model as well.

Well, since Daleks are technically not robots, but organics inside a mobile armor suit, you could just as easily handwave them as a type of motorized infantry.

Or as a battle armor type.

- Herb

[Wolf72]

would need to have people with dwarfism as pilots.  Any other motive types beyond T.O.?

Or they wear the armor like a giant prom dress and their feet simply pitter patter along.

[Charistoph]

would need to have people with dwarfism as pilots.  Any other motive types beyond T.O.?

Or they wear the armor like a giant prom dress and their feet simply pitter patter along.

Well, didn't the Wobbies just go all X-Com for the Protomech pilots, and Dalaks aren't much more than a bunch of flesh little more than the size of the average human head.

[Wolf72]

Well, didn't the Wobbies just go all X-Com for the Protomech pilots, and Dalaks aren't much more than a bunch of flesh little more than the size of the average human head.

Not up on my WoB lore, did they try to make some Protomech pilots? How'd they do? (obviously not to well, or if they did a clan caught wind of it and let WoB know Clans can play the destruction card too)

[Liam's Ghost]

Not up on my WoB lore, did they try to make some Protomech pilots? How'd they do? (obviously not to well, or if they did a clan caught wind of it and let WoB know Clans can play the destruction card too)

The experiment might have gone better if they hadn't staged it on a planet they'd also hit with a zombie plague and an asteroid.  ;D

[Wolf72]

The experiment might have gone better if they hadn't staged it on a planet they'd also hit with a zombie plague and an asteroid.  ;D

Shit, they might as well have contracted out to Spaceballs!

[HABeas2]

Not up on my WoB lore, did they try to make some Protomech pilots? How'd they do? (obviously not to well, or if they did a clan caught wind of it and let WoB know Clans can play the destruction card too)

The experiment might have gone better if they hadn't staged it on a planet they'd also hit with a zombie plague and an asteroid.  ;D

Oh yeah, THOSE were fun! They were prototypes of the Inner Sphere ProtoMech Interface, which can be found in Interstellar Operations (p. 102). The gist of their approach involved chopping off both arms and both legs from the prospective pilot, and then wiring him directly into the machine. So no dwarfism was required at all; they simply tailored the pilots to fit! ;)

- Herb

[beachhead1985]

That kinda feels bad to abstract all those things as a single overweight (for them) drone Exoskeleton.
The range and options of the SV system feels more natural, but sadly we don't have canon biped/quad construction values.

it's not ideal, but after I logged off, I booted up HM:BA and I was able to make some "Battle Android Troopers" starting at 135kg. I think the weight of the pilot is included in that, but that would be subbed out with drone gear.

Far from perfect as I said.

[Wolf72]

Oh yeah, THOSE were fun! They were prototypes of the Inner Sphere ProtoMech Interface, which can be found in Interstellar Operations (p. 102). The gist of their approach involved chopping off both arms and both legs from the prospective pilot, and then wiring him directly into the machine. So no dwarfism was required at all; they simply tailored the pilots to fit! ;)

- Herb

dude, not cool!    >:D

Like a few scifi books I read where children's brains (not quite sure on this one, possibly they had birth defects and would not have survived long normally?) or paraplegics were used as intelligence cores on starships

[Red Pins]

SHHHH!


YOU'RE GIVING IT AWAY!!

Btw, looked into a hover sped - VTOLs and 1/2 wheeled microtanks are more effective.  BA drones actually work, but need tweaking.

[Charistoph]

Oh yeah, THOSE were fun! They were prototypes of the Inner Sphere ProtoMech Interface, which can be found in Interstellar Operations (p. 102). The gist of their approach involved chopping off both arms and both legs from the prospective pilot, and then wiring him directly into the machine. So no dwarfism was required at all; they simply tailored the pilots to fit! ;)

- Herb

That's what I thought they did.  And yeah, that's how the X-Com did it in Enemy Within.  They removed the arms and legs to fit them in mecha armor, but gave them prosthetics to use when they weren't piloting.  The Mech Suits couldn't use cover (and could be configured to BE cover) and had some pretty powerful weaponry.  A lot of fun.  X-Com 2 removed the human component entirely and you could build robots or "Sparks" as they called them.

Like a few scifi books I read where children's brains (not quite sure on this one, possibly they had birth defects and would not have survived long normally?) or paraplegics were used as intelligence cores on starships

The Brainship series by Anne McCaffrey which started with The Ship Who Sang is one of them.  I read it back in Jr High or High School.  Why bother developing AI when you can just use natural intelligence to do the job.

The human brain is actually quite good at handling information, despite what people may think about how "smart" computers are.  It is actually quite natural to consider a sentient brain to run a starship, until you consider how much body-horror by way of Frankenstein comes in to play.  That was one of the reasons why they used children who would have been trapped in their bodies for their entire lives for the process.

That would be a truly fanatic take for someone like the crazier Clanners to go with instead of Solhama.  Have their brain transplanted in to Clan BATs, and go crazy (probably very literally considering what happened with EI...).

[RifleMech]

would need to have people with dwarfism as pilots.  Any other motive types beyond T.O.?

Or they wear the armor like a giant prom dress and their feet simply pitter patter along.

Depending on the time they were made/created "season" Daleks varied from climbing into armor and driving it to a full conversion cyborgs.

[Wolf72]

The Brainship series by Anne McCaffrey which started with The Ship Who Sang is one of them.  I read it back in Jr High or High School.  Why bother developing AI when you can just use natural intelligence to do the job.

Thank you, that would definitely be them ... would have started on those after Dragonriders series would have been used up.

[beachhead1985]

Thank you, that would definitely be them ... would have started on those after Dragonriders series would have been used up.

It's a feature in one story per book of the "Fleet" And "BattleStation" anthologies as well. Possibly written by the same author, however...They team a brainship up with, usually; a normal human to make a "Brain and brawn" combo (har har, very droll). Cannot recall where they get the grey matter from.

Machine Spirits in Wh40K are modified human or animal brains as well.

For a more grounded employment of the severely disabled; you have the "Audios Patria" in Kratman's Carerraverse series. There they team up mentally handicapped volunteers which are taught simple repetitive tasks; like cleaning a helpless human body or loading a tank gun and disabled veteran soldiers with brain or spinal injuries or who are multiple amputees and provide leadership and direction. These are then committed (one way. Audios Patria *does* translate to "Farewell Fatherland") to fixed defensive positions, which they man until they die or are relieved.

Lovely series. I recommend it highly.

[idea weenie]

  Technically wouldn't the "automated mannequins of dubious moral value" produced on Dustball and mention in the old house Steiner guidebook count? 

Too bad we can't combine this with Shadowrun skillwires, so if there is an ATAC (or human operator) running the base it can download the necessary programs as needed for the mannequins.  Or even set it where you have a central 'storage' site of mannequins, that are sent out on an as-needed basis.  Each of the sub-locations has an on-site storage for its mannequins that are sent to do work as needed, and when the mannequins report that they have suffered damage or need recharge/maintenance, they are placed in an outgoing storage site (and when the outgoing site has enough, the building reports back to a receiver that it needs mannequin pickup).  The Skillwires would program them similar to ARTS systems, but using the mannequins rather than arms.

It would be expensive to set up, but the mannequins would be moved around as needed, and could provide almost 24/7 support for anywhere that is needed.  You need more mechanics?  Upload the basic program.  More Astechs?  Program.  Nurses to handle basic cases?  Medical programs.  The system as a whole could even have an analysis program to identify and remove inefficiencies (i.e. if the storage site is on one side of the base, and the main places that use the mannequins are on the other side, it will bring up that inefficiency to a human controller to recommend the base get reorganized).  The danger is when the system calculates that the humans are the inefficient part and decides to remove them.

it's not ideal, but after I logged off, I booted up HM:BA and I was able to make some "Battle Android Troopers" starting at 135kg. I think the weight of the pilot is included in that, but that would be subbed out with drone gear.

Can you put this on the fan designs section and link to it, so we can have fun getting ideas on how to use it?


I'm also getting an idea of a human-shaped bot, but the front of its shins is actually a set of treads.  On building, clear, and road terrain it can move at a speed of 2 because it kneels down and uses its treads to move, but on other terrain it only gets a speed of 1 due to using its legs.

Similar to the robots from Short Circuit, but instead of being a fixed base with treads, it uses legs.  When the bot crouches down from using legs to use treads, a support pole extends either from its hips or its ankles to avoid extra stress on the knee joints.

The reason for legs is that this way it can sit in a human chair, instead of needing to rip out the seat.

Similar to a Quadvee, but with only two limbs using treads, instead of all four.