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Author Topic: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?  (Read 1512 times)

Drewbacca

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Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« on: 20 May 2018, 05:20:20 »
It seems to me the extra heat is not really off set by the extra range, but I have nevsr used them. What is the general feeling?
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Son of Kerenski

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #1 on: 20 May 2018, 06:54:01 »
I like the Medium X Pulse only. Extra 2 heat for 33% more range. Thats quite managable.

Had a nice jumpy experimental 55 tonner with partial wing and 5 MXP on it with reflective armour... was more annoying than a Pariah B  ;D

Nightsong

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #2 on: 20 May 2018, 07:08:45 »
I don’t mind them in cases where heat isn’t an issue but the extra range could come in handy, say, as a side car to an LB10-X or some flavor of gauss. One big thing is that the medium range bracket becomes far more viable, allowing MXPLs to be even better backups to LRMs or LXPLs being arguably better than Snubnose PPCs (loses a slight bit of damage up close in exchange for more accuracy, while being more accurate and harder hitting at longer ranges.)

SD501st

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #3 on: 20 May 2018, 09:09:00 »
As others have said, the MXPL is definitely worth it for a variety of reasons... one not mentioned being that it's range bands overlap with SRM's and IS SSRM's.

I'd like to add in the SXPL, which is also quite a good weapon in it's own right... not only as a CQC damage dealer, but also as an anti-infantry weapon, since it has the same boni that all other small pulses have against infantry. The slightly higher heat is negligable compared to the much better range in that role.

IMHO, the only black sheep of the bunch is the LXPL. It's heat is just too much for what it brings to the table. It might be a good to back up for very low heat weapons like the Gauss Rifles, but compared to the other two XPL's it's simply too hot.

If you want a weapon with the same damage and range, for lower heat, with an inbuilt accuracy bonus(although a weaker one), I'd go for the LREL instead. Damage of the LPL/LXPL, range of the LL, lower heat than the regular LPL... 1 point more than the LL for 9 points and thus a 1-1 dmg-heat ratio, just like the LL(!!) and a -1 accuracy bonus, all for only a single ton more than either a LPL or LXPL. And as an added bonus, you get to laugh at reflective, Ferro-Lam and Hardened armor. Against Hardened Armor in particular, you effectively deal double damage! :thumbsup:
If we're comparing the LXPL and the LREL with an added TarComp, the LREL comes out ahead as well. Sure it's "only" -2 compared to -3 accuracy, but once you factor in the TarComp's weight and crit requirements, as well as the massive crit requirements of the DHS needed to get an LXPL heat neutral, that's almost not worth mentioning... it's a 2/3rds reduction compared to the 1/2 reduction without a TarComp.
The only real downside is the crit requirement... 5 critical slots compared to 2. That might be a problem on Mechs using lots of non engine mounted DHS, Endo/Ferro or other crit intensive weight savers or special armors.

« Last Edit: 20 May 2018, 14:36:13 by SD501st »

Brakiel

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #4 on: 20 May 2018, 09:17:47 »
Nightsong and SD501st covered all the points I was going to make, so I'll just add that the Medium XPL becomes a far better anti-BA weapon. The MPL's max range meant that BA weapons often matched or exceeded it, such as Recoilless Rifles, Magshot, AP Gauss, SRMs, and standard Medium Lasers. Not much point packing a -2 to hit when a 6 hex max range puts you in medium range of BA. The XPL upgrade definitely fixes that.
« Last Edit: 20 May 2018, 09:20:25 by Brakiel »

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #5 on: 20 May 2018, 11:18:36 »
No.  They should have been nothing but an experimental prototype until the Inner Sphere learned how to make Clan pulse lasers.

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Kidd

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #6 on: 20 May 2018, 11:37:13 »
in addition to the above, the MXPL and LXPL are decent weapons when you're short on crits and have heat to spare, as is often the case with AC carriers. LXPL pairs well with AC10 and they're both generally superior to standard pulse lasers.

Hellraiser

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #7 on: 20 May 2018, 14:09:12 »
They are very situational IMO.

I don't care for them in multiple unless its on a concept designed to use them.


For Example.
Penetrator-4D:  Using X-MPLs on this would just trash the heat curve for nothing as the MPLs are only there for close range when not sniping w/ the ERLLs.

Spider-8M:  NOW we are talking.  This is how you use them.   The 8M has the DHS to spare so the bonus heat doesn't matter & with MPLs being the only weapon the extra range is a huge factor.


For something like the Wraith-TR1, I'm actually torn, the bonus range is nice, but you remove any thoughts of using all 3 guns in the same turn so not so nice.

The Dart/Fireball??   Something w/ 3 SPL as its guns?   Is a solid option for X-SPL, as it doesn't jump & the bonus range really helps.


So as with most weapons in BT, they are not perfect, & their usage is situational.
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The_Livewire

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #8 on: 20 May 2018, 14:42:24 »
Also it depends, I think, on what else you are carrying.

A Wolverine II, for example, can eat the heat with no issues, and benefits from now having the SRM and the pulse sharing range brackets.
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #9 on: 20 May 2018, 15:21:58 »
There might still be niche uses for MPLs, but in general I think XPLs have made regular ones obsolete.
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SD501st

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #10 on: 20 May 2018, 16:00:48 »
There might still be niche uses for MPLs, but in general I think XPLs have made regular ones obsolete.

And for every one of those MPL niche uses, there's the SVSPL.

Brakiel

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #11 on: 20 May 2018, 16:24:17 »
And for every one of those MPL niche uses, there's the SVSPL.

I find I have a hard time justifying the Small VSPL. I'm not sure it's worth the loss in damage at medium and long range. The -3 at short at the expense of 1 damage is ok, I guess, but I'm not entirely sold on it being definitively better either.

SD501st

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #12 on: 20 May 2018, 17:52:14 »
I find I have a hard time justifying the Small VSPL. I'm not sure it's worth the loss in damage at medium and long range. The -3 at short at the expense of 1 damage is ok, I guess, but I'm not entirely sold on it being definitively better either.

Ah, but you can have both Small VSPL's and MXPL's on the same design/pod loadout. I'm sure there's are a few specific situations(like really limited heat capacity and high speed/jump range, but does that one situation justify taking, say, 5 MPL's over 4 MXPL's and 1 SVPL? I don't really think so.

Iceweb

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #13 on: 20 May 2018, 18:40:51 »
I did an interesting refit of a Sagittaire that had half of the pulses swapped for Xpulses. 

It was reasonably effective. 
It had enough heat sinks to fire the Xlarge at range with the ERPPC and dropping the ERPPC at close range allowed a nice battery of fire in close. 

That given it did run hot if you pushed it and I had to put a cooling pod in to keep it effective in a stand up fight. 
That said it did have jets to break contact and cool down. 

However the fluff was that it was a Solaris Heel that favored the icy arenas so it could continue to push the heat.

Firesprocket

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #14 on: 20 May 2018, 18:51:35 »
I can see plenty of reasons on why to use an Small or Medium X-Pulse assuming you are upgrading from standard pulse lasers.  I can find very little reason to take a Large X-Pulse Laser.  The additional heat generated by the is excessive.  If I want the extra range I'd just update from a Large Pulse laser to an ER Large or a ER PPC.  More benefits to range for that extra heat.  I'm not certain I see any benefit to S-VSPs either.  Larger varieties on the other hand, love em.
« Last Edit: 20 May 2018, 18:55:07 by Firesprocket »

StoneRhino

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #15 on: 21 May 2018, 06:45:07 »
I used them a fair amount back in the MaxTech days when we used to play with forces based upon tonnage instead of BV. One of the biggest problems then was the difference in pulse lasers when it came to the I.S. vs Clan tech. The X-pulse lasers helped to fix that by reducing the strange handicap that the I.S. pulse lasers were. The standard I.S. pulse laser ranges meant that the large pulse was nothing more then a big I.S. medium laser with a hit modifier, and that the medium pulse was a weapon that you had to get into melee range to really use as a pulse laser, otherwise the range negated the pulse advantage.

It may be a matter of perception, when playing against other I.S. players, but against clan players who loved pulse lasers the difference was significant. The additional heat was a fair price to pay for the pulse's -2 to hit. It also meant that you didn't need to try and use ER or standard MLs with a targeting computer to try and get a similar effect. It meant that if you were used to using I.S. MLs against clan players that your pulse lasers were now pulse lasers instead of some knife fighting range lasers that you had to see as being a different family of lasers unrelated to the clan pulse lasers to avoid that disappointment in range. If you used a lot of light mechs you were already using designs that could easily absorb the additional heat as their heatsinks typically left them with extra dissipation potential, or they could easily be modified to use DHS. However, some designs such as the GrandCrusader would have an issue going from pulse to X-Pulse without some modifications to it's weapons or how it is being played, but it would also mean that those X-LPL would be played at some kind of range that would be alien to an I.S. ML user, and the X-MPL would be used as a short range weapon.

Kidd

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #16 on: 21 May 2018, 07:32:12 »
The upside of XPLs over the Tarcomp method is that sometimes you have other guns you don't want comped, and of course its not 1 gigantic single point of failure

Col Toda

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #17 on: 21 May 2018, 08:35:45 »
Yes they are for all the given reasons . It is quick to use and as inner sphere weaponry usable on LAM mechs. . I particularly like 2 Med X pulse lasers in a Turret on an APC . For an Inner Sphere player large scale Clan spec weapon upgrades does not happen until the Dark Age and even that is limited one primary or 2 secondary weapons , probably due to the techs required to maintain skill has to be better than regular . After a certain year X-Pulse lasers become advanced vs experimental. True so does mixed tech but the after market cost for replacement systems are much higher .

Nightlord01

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #18 on: 21 May 2018, 09:49:54 »
The upside of XPLs over the Tarcomp method is that sometimes you have other guns you don't want comped, and of course its not 1 gigantic single point of failure

Why would you ever not want weapons TComped? I'm really struggling to think of a reason.

Brakiel

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #19 on: 21 May 2018, 09:53:30 »
Why would you ever not want weapons TComped? I'm really struggling to think of a reason.

For IS, the tonnage and crit requirements can balloon incredibly quickly. Their TarComps are 1 ton and slot per 4 tons of direct fire weaponry. Combine that with their naturally heavier weapons, it gets very difficult to mount.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #20 on: 21 May 2018, 10:30:17 »
I can see plenty of reasons on why to use an Small or Medium X-Pulse assuming you are upgrading from standard pulse lasers.  I can find very little reason to take a Large X-Pulse Laser.  The additional heat generated by the is excessive.  If I want the extra range I'd just update from a Large Pulse laser to an ER Large or a ER PPC.  More benefits to range for that extra heat.  I'm not certain I see any benefit to S-VSPs either.  Larger varieties on the other hand, love em.
The heat is high, but there's still more reason to take a LXPL than a regular IS LPL.  With the advent of XPLs and SNPPCs, regular LPLs are basically completely obsolete.  I can't think of a single time I'd want one in the post-Jihad era.
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Sartris

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #21 on: 21 May 2018, 11:25:05 »
in-universe designers agree. there are only 18 non-naval units that mount IS LPLs 3080 and later

Empyrus

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #22 on: 21 May 2018, 11:30:20 »
in-universe designers agree. there are only 18 non-naval units that mount IS LPLs 3080 and later
How common is the LXPL?

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #23 on: 21 May 2018, 11:34:06 »
How does the LXPL hold up against a capped snubby?  The latter's got a much harder hit for the same heat, but is an every-other-turn weapon.

Drewbacca

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #24 on: 21 May 2018, 11:43:26 »
How does the LXPL hold up against a capped snubby?  The latter's got a much harder hit for the same heat, but is an every-other-turn weapon.

Can I just interject that I smiled a bit at the phrase "Capped Snubby" for some reason.
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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #25 on: 21 May 2018, 11:44:25 »
How common is the LXPL?

There's about 17 'Mechs and 1 tank design with LXPLs.

Sartris

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #26 on: 21 May 2018, 12:22:07 »
the XLPL is still finding its way into designs. a good portion of the canon LPXL units are Solaris mechs (11). Others like the Huron Warrior HUR-WO-RX4 and Partisan Hull Defense Tank are XTRO one-offs. That leaves the Firestarter -OX, Marauder II -6M, Brahma -5B, Grasshopper -7P and Shockwave -4G.

the snub's popularity is waning. most canon snub carriers are jihad-era units. i count 38 that came 3080 or later and only a dozen 3100 or later

Kidd

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #27 on: 21 May 2018, 12:31:08 »
How does the LXPL hold up against a capped snubby?  The latter's got a much harder hit for the same heat, but is an every-other-turn weapon.
Demonstrates well why the LXPL is superior.

Empyrus

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #28 on: 21 May 2018, 12:46:07 »
PPC capacitors are a bit niche equipment. They work OK with designs that spike their heat anyway, so you get time to recharge the capacitor, or designs with a lot of Light PPCs to keep up constant 10 point barrages for lighter weight (of course, you could just use any Awesome for that really).

A Snubby with capacitor is somewhat wasteful as the whole weapon is very much a close combat weapon. Regaining range damage has little point, though a headcapper with 9 hex short range is hilarious. Better than the Large Pulse Laser to be sure, but that is a low bar. But the LXPL is more like an accurate generalist/medium range weapon, so the comparison isn't that great, different roles.

Colt Ward

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Re: Are X-Pulse Lasers worth taking?
« Reply #29 on: 21 May 2018, 14:09:35 »
Well, the Snub and XPL are for two different purposes IMO.

The Snub IMO is summed up in the PXH-7K . . . 6/9/9, LFE its designed to be your skirmisher.  It leaps about 8 or 9 hexes away from a target firing the Snub every turn, of 7 hexes away if its in a C3 network.  This makes its weapon in short range while those its hitting or C3 spotting for are at mid or long range for most weapons- which means +4 jumping & +2 or +4 THN for range . . . makes it hard to hit something bouncing like that from so far away.

The XPL . . . is designed to hit the PXH-7K!  With mid range being 5-10 hexes, it makes it a lot easier to hit some speedster or jumping jack trying to spot or get position for pushing damage.  So to target that PXH as mentioned earlier, you would just have the +4 for its jumping and the +2 for range would be negated by the -2 form Pulse.  MUCH easier to hit that jumping spotter.

With that said, as a cavalry/flanker player . . . I prefer the Snub, since its better on heat and a ton lighter.
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