Converting my HBS mercs into table top

[Colt Ward]

So . . . I am thinking of taking the survivors of my 1st campaign and trying to make a merc company from them . . .

Which means they awkwardly have some better mechs than they should . . . the Atlas II did not quite match the canon ones- seemed a sort of hybrid of the AS7-D and the old K model.  The Royal Highlander would have a problem with FF armor, and I think they might sell those Artemis IV systems to a House or company- after all how much ammo could they get?  Gauss Ammo would be easier to get since you just need a machine shop with a Lathe- should be part of your techs' kit in the first place.

They might also be heavier than expected . . . I kept the assault count down but after you take Victoria out (how did I not get the King Crab?  I was careful to kill her with its legs & CT intact??) but still end up with the Atlas II, Royal Highlander, Stalker, Victor and Battlemaster out (Highlander P was in storage) with a Orion 1-K, MAD-Orion, Catapult C1, Black Knight, and Grasshopper sitting in bays.  I did the collector thing so I have other heavies, mediums and lights in storage.  I try to drop around 300t, need to go up so I can see other Atlas, Zeus, and Awesome which I have not seen.  But such a skewing of weight was just not done in the 4SW?

Finally . . . what to do about the dropship?  I thought about a Dictator which would have the capacity (and more) which could stick to the 'old crashed ship' motif . . . perhaps even a unique Dictator, something that was a abandoned testbed that crashed.  I was figuring anything but the Overlord, Union, or Fortress.  In place of the Leopard, I really want to go DRoST IIa for fun- maybe gunship version!  Could be fun to plop them into the Andurien conflict since my mercs were lazy and took over four years to free the Reach (which would be a realistic rate really . . . if it was not for the faster HBS transit).

Some of the testbed applications for the dropship would be something like . . .

Repair cradle automation-  lose X amount of mech cubicles for automated systems, re-armor, re-arm, change coolant out, or other simple things
Reloading automation- like above but limited to arming & coolant change

I honestly cannot think of much else that could be done to a DS that is not fluff to make it like the Argo.

[Starfox1701]

The Argo is going to have to be house ruled for now.  As far as the mechs and the tech go your best bet is to get in touch with the Davions. The 4th War should be just getting underway good by the end of the story campaign. So while they won't be in a position to keep your star league tech running yet they will be far closer than anybody else in the inner sphere other than Wolves Dragoons who are just about to get Outreach for them and Blankenbug Tech to play with.

The Combine is definitely out for the next 25 years and the same goes for the Confederation unless you like working for the bat crap insane.

Of course you could try to go to work for Comstar but they might just kill you and take your toys so there's that.

[Colt Ward]

Well, I was not planning on making a straight Argo clone . . . instead give a current DS, hence Dictator, some of the capabilities.  Which is why I was saying the only one that involved game mechanics I could think of was automation for repair/upkeep of mechs.  Might also strip out some of the weapons . . . give it some SC bays and they have SC rather than a 2nd DS even if I am a fan of the DRoST II.

[ThePW]

you could think of this: some of your tech could be sold to the Davion's specifically (are at least certain cannon manufacturers) as the basis for those company's R&D. All those systems started to come on line in the mid 3030's, some as late as the mid 40's. The data from the Helm Memory core showed everyone the how to, but having an actual functional weapon to look at, take apart to learn how to manufacture the specific bits & pieces helps. perhaps your campaign would lead to those ends?

[Colt Ward]

Yeah . . . after finishing you end up with-

HGN-  FF armor (which you should not have been able to replace during the campaign), Artemis IV for LRM & SRM, Gauss Rifle, DHS
Atlas-  FF armor, ERLL, DHS, MPL and its a custom design . . . close to the AS7-K layout

Both should have CASE which can be studied but is part of the structure . . .

So . . . the FF armor gets sold off, replaced by Standard IMO.  Doing that on the HGN is simple- removing the Artemis IV from both systems, replacing the DHS with singles, and dropping a laser lets you do the -733 even if you keep the Gauss Rifle mounted.  Using Singles on the cool running design lets you store the DHS for replacements on the Atlas.  The Atlas is a bit more problematic, the ERLLs & LRMs are what give it significant long range punch . . . I would not want to give those up as a commander, it makes my slow assault superior to anything comparable and lets me worry things that are faster.

We also know the TC & FS are at least aware of FF before 3050 b/c of the Maultier & Hammerhead fluff.

[Alexander Knight]

Actually, the Argo herself is replicable as a customized 100 kTon dropship.

[Colt Ward]

I understand going the custom one-off build . . . but I also figure that some group that returned with a ship from the Periphery with a ship ComStar had never seen before would draw a LOT of attention.  Pointy, explode-y attention that never stops.

As such . . . lounges, greenhouse, sim pods, expanded med bay . . . all of that is fluff for the interior of the DS.

[Charistoph]

I understand going the custom one-off build . . . but I also figure that some group that returned with a ship from the Periphery with a ship ComStar had never seen before would draw a LOT of attention.  Pointy, explode-y attention that never stops.

It depends on how willing/quickly they are to sell it to Comstar and NEVER TALK ABOUT THIS AGAIN, right?

[Starfox1701]

I understand going the custom one-off build . . . but I also figure that some group that returned with a ship from the Periphery with a ship ComStar had never seen before would draw a LOT of attention.  Pointy, explode-y attention that never stops.

As such . . . lounges, greenhouse, sim pods, expanded med bay . . . all of that is fluff for the interior of the DS.

Mke friends with Jaime Wolf or Morgan Kell. They will help keep Comstar at end length and Wolf might actually be able to give you some tech info in her. I'm certain they have a star league archive either from outreach or that they brought back with them from clan space.

[marcussmythe]

Actually, the Argo herself is replicable as a customized 100 kTon dropship.

Can you put a Grav Deck on a Dropship?  I'm certainly not opposed to the idea, just wasn't aware the rules specifically allowed it.

[Colt Ward]

 . . . not going custom one-off.  Planning to just make some changes to a existing DS as a 'experimental' design to keep the flavor of the Argo without exactly replicating it- a lot of what the ship does does not carry over to TT roleplay.

[snewsom2997]

Just Build the Argo without the Grav-Deck.

No need for a Grav Deck, you can use thrust from jump points to worlds and back, once at the planet, most people are going to be planetside, maybe even the dropship.

The only reason I could see grav deck on a Dropship is for an spy ship or exploration ship that would be parking over a system and observing for a long period of time.

[Starfox1701]

That's kinda what she was for. The brief for the class was that they were intended as mobile depots for new colony founding. They hang in orbit for 6 months to a year acting as a base of operations and cargo transfer point. The class could easily be converted into a full mobile military command post especially with the ability to daisy chain 3 additional combat dropers off 1 dock in collar on a jumpship. For a Merc group the logistics cost savings could be considerable not to mention the potential for the improved maintenance and support facility's on the ship. 1 properly fited Argo can backstop a full RCT. How does that not translate into something on the TT?

[Colt Ward]

Because med bays, simulator pods, rec facilities and a lot of the other cash sinks are AToW/RPG matters rather than table top AeroSpace performance.  They can also have a strategic impact, which you were discussing, but the mercs the Argo is supporting is not a regiment.  Its why I offered ideas about the automation in the mech bays- they can handle the simple tasks which means you do not need astechs doing or have to spend the time of your regular or veteran techs to oversee it . . . but it also means your not spending that time on training tasks for your astechs & green techs so they can improve their skills.

[Starfox1701]

Yes and no. While a ship like the Argo won't have a huge effect on individual pickup games it will in a campaign setting. Those med bays get pilots and other troops healed up faster. Those sim pods mean new and replacement troops get more training between battles so their skills go up faster and they don't get dead quite so easy. Yes its kind of expensive to maintain; your hauling around a mobile space station, but considering what it takes to keep a good Merc regiment in fighting trim you won't find better support facilities outside of Outreach.

If you don't want the very real headache that will come with operating this lost tech marvel inside the wider inner sphere that fine but if you genuinely don't think the ship will have any effect on the table top then honestly no disrespect but i just don't think you have thought that one out to completion.

[Colt Ward]

Couple things . . . if your pilots take as much damage as they do in HBS, you are doing something wrong.

With that said . . . we have rules for medical care, so much tonnage means X beds & diagnostic machines, requires X staff, X staff (by xp level) gives Y hours of medical care, etc.  Pretty sure we have rules for sim pods, but those are not as common- its an interesting bit and it can be really good to keep your own pilots in practice.  Even better is if you are grounded with other mercs or on a hiring world, you can rent out time to other commands.  My OP was about how you would convert it to a current DS, the repair capabilities were the ones I specifically do not think we have rules for on a DS- maybe the canonized MFB from MW3.

The Argo by itself does not support a regiment . . . honestly, it seems to be a long-term special ops base.  It carries 24 mechs, advanced repair capability, advanced medical support, very good rec facilities, and the ability to practice mech missions via the sim pods.  All things I would want on some long cruise where I was sneaking through hostile space carrying out covert ground ops.

IMO for mercs coming on the general scene after 4SW . . . its going to give them some big advantages- the repair tech for one will be a big boost.  But also being limited to carrying a pair of companies means they cannot get a full battalion on the single DS, not a big deal but it does sort of cap some growth.  On the other hand, it should have a HUGE amount of cargo space since you carried all those parts & chunks of mechs.

Right now I am thinking a modified Dictator where it was stretched to give it a few more decks but lost the ability to carry a company- it will also have most of the weapons stripped out.  Still a toss up on SC or throw in a DRoST IIa gunship, to represent the Leopard driving off pirates.

[skiltao]

How many 'Mechs do you have, and how much surplus room do you want? A Mule isn't as fancy as a Dictator, but I think it fits what you see in the game.

But such a skewing of weight was just not done in the 4SW?

On what scale? Any single lance could have just about anything you want in it (especially if you found the lance in a Star League cache).

Medium regiments are the most common kind of regiment; most medium regiments will have a heavy battalion; it's not surprising for a heavy battalion to have an assault company; and assault companies should have one or two assault lances. Assault lances start at 285 tons but they can go higher.

[Starfox1701]

Colt your forgetting the Argo will dock 3 more droper and there no stated limit on how big they can be.

[Colt Ward]

Or a Jumbo instead of a Mule . . . and you get 2 SC bays, hmm . . . Might work since I was saying expand the hull of the Dictator to get a few thousand more tons of space in more decks.  It also gives a ship that dates back to the beginning of the Star League for some interesting options.



But I with 24 mech cubicles on the Argo I had 5 assaults (as listed), 9 heavies, 7 mediums, and 3 lights- I do not have the list in front of me so its possible the heavy, med and lights are off 1 in either direction.

Starfox, as I have repeatedly said I am not going to build or use the exact Argo concept.  I am not creating a monitor, and in evaluating the Argo by itself in isolation it is a 2 company transport.

[Starfox1701]

Why no just go whole hog and rebuild a mammoth

[Colt Ward]

Too big, too thin skinned and not as common IMO.

I had not thought of using a commercial conversion, but I appreciate the idea skiltao.

[Starfox1701]

I was thinking a militarized version. Nothing list tech per se but what if the SL was building such a suped up combined arms transporter? It be like doing a clan tech upgrade but just to IS 3039 milspec standards instead. Can't be that much of the base spaceframe that needs changing.

[Colt Ward]

They built DS for that-

Lee- reinforced mech battalion, ASF squadron

Colossus- 2 heavy armor battalions, mech battalion and reinforced infantry battalion

And I want to say I am missing one of the giant RCT DS.

Besides, DS would not be able to stay docked while your theoretical ship is under thrust as I understand- same as they cannot stay docked to a warship.

[skiltao]

I had not thought of using a commercial conversion, but I appreciate the idea skiltao.

Sure thing. The Jumbo is an interesting idea - it's a general category of colony ship, rather than a single specific type, so you've got a lot of flexibility about how exactly it's configured.

[truetanker]

DroST IIA?

Can supposedly VStol and carry anything...

TT

[Colt Ward]

Sure, as a substitute for the Leopard in the game as a gunship . . . but to me that seems to be OP, which is why I jumped on the Jumbo w/2 ASF.

[truetanker]

DroST IIA does come with 2 Smallcraft bays as well...

Plus roll on- roll off cargo... and 10 Platoons worth of Infantry!

TT

[Starfox1701]

Besides, DS would not be able to stay docked while your theoretical ship is under thrust as I understand- same as they cannot stay docked to a warship.

I seam to recall from with SO or IO that you could build the ship to handle docked vessels while moving up to 1 g of thrust. And Argo totes that leopard around everywhere the only change is showing the grav deck pods and stopping its rotation before moving out.

[haesslich]

It depends on how willing/quickly they are to sell it to Comstar and NEVER TALK ABOUT THIS AGAIN, right?

Waverly and Tiepolo are in charge in this timeframe. ROM strikes are a real risk if you've even seen SL Tech at this point. Remember the GDL

[Charistoph]

Waverly and Tiepolo are in charge in this timeframe. ROM strikes are a real risk if you've even seen SL Tech at this point. Remember the GDL

Well, easiest way to make sure they never talk about it again is if their brain is no longer capable of transmitting to their mouths, right?