Ideal ammo per weapon?

[Daryk]

Fair points...  ::)

[TigerShark]

That's a really generous allocation. ~20 rounds of fire is usually too much for most games I've ever seen.

That's the deal, isn't it? It depends heavily on what type of play you engage in. I don't participate in pickup games. So it's the opposite experience: 10 rounds doesn't even last half the game for me. The answer to "what's a reasonable amount of ammo" can change depending on the size of the game, if it's a campaign setting, map sheet size, era, if specialty ammo is available, and so on. There is no one answer for every person.

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

  My rule of thumb is to ammo up for one shot per expected game turn, for most scenarios and 1 1/2 times if its a campaign and you may not have reload time. On average, my games take about 10-15 turns. One GM was so meticulous (anal) with setting up that we were lucky to get five turns in before having to call the game, so I tailored ammo loads accordingly.

  Converting most of my unit's mechs to energy weapons saved an incredible amount of space usually taken up by tons of ammo.

[Bokanutt]

I can say that the ideal ammo is 9mm. Anyway, a lot of people have different points of view regarding this subject.

[TigerShark]

I can say that the ideal ammo is 9mm. Anyway, a lot of people have different points of view regarding this subject.

I have examples where it's not, but that's a whole other thread lol

[kaliban]

I'd even say the Saladin is a strong candidate for a single ton of ammo. After it gets those 5 shots off, it returns to base (forcing good habits by the crew) and the enemy may even be more inclined towards not shooting it if they know the problem will solve itself soon. The latter only in an environment where there's a ton of stuff to kill off.

I play on a regular basis with a custom 30 ton VTOL armed with a single AC/20 and only 5 shots of ammo - if you are lucky enough to fire all five shots, get the hell out of the battlefield to fight another time!

[garhkal]

I don't even call that special.

5 Shots of Streak is GUARANTEED hits, which means its probably 8 rounds of fire.

I'd say, for streaks, 5 to 8 rounds per launcher, SHOULD be sufficient..

Had they been available at the time, a pair of RL/15s would have been a great swap-out for those Streaks without putting a torso ammo bomb into an XL engine 'Mech. I otherwise like the War Dog, it can spam that Gauss all day long without needing to close to short range. Great for keeping slow-moving assaults pinned down since even a 100 tonner can't laugh at a Gauss hit. As new toy era designs go it's okay.

Agreed.  A pair of Rocket launchers, even the 15 packs, are better than the two ONE shot SRM-2 streaks...

That's the deal, isn't it? It depends heavily on what type of play you engage in. I don't participate in pickup games. So it's the opposite experience: 10 rounds doesn't even last half the game for me. The answer to "what's a reasonable amount of ammo" can change depending on the size of the game, if it's a campaign setting, map sheet size, era, if specialty ammo is available, and so on. There is no one answer for every person.

Good point.  One of the swiftest pick up games i played in, barely lasted 7 rounds, before most mechs were destroyed on one side, and only 2 of 5 mechs on the other side were even just severely damaged.. So that game got called..  Yet one con game i played in, just to the sheer size of the map and # of players/mechs, we had over 50 rounds of combat...

[monbvol]

I think you're prone to a common misconception. More Mechs doesn't result in more spend ammunition. The important factor is the composition.
When you have a true lance vs true lance situation and boost it up to 3x true lance vs 3x true lance the ammunition consumption stays the same.

It's interesting when you look at the vehicles in use. For example a Shadow Hawk 2H and a Wolverine 6R facing an Awesome and a Javelin.  The mediums will hardly have enough ammunition to finish the fight - although they have 20 rds. and its not even a lance vs lance engagement.

On the other hand, 20 rounds for the AC5 when facing an Awesome would be enough for a Zeus. (I usually ran out of LRM ammo 8rds are undeniable low)
Same for the mediums in the first example turn the Wolverine into a 6M and the 20rds for the SHD are enough.

Its the damage potential that matters. The Awesome has 240 plates of armor.
So estimated for destruction:

• AC2: avg 126 hits (worst case 161)
• AC5: avg 47 hits (worst case 61)
• AC10: avg 22hits (worst 33)
• AC20: avg 9 hits (worst case are 16)

While the average damage needed for the destruction goes down with increased caliber the max damage stays almost the same.
 
So the simple question of the OP is not that simple.
20rds on that Rifleman might be enough because of those large lasers.... shoot lasers, cool down, shoot acs cool down, shoot laser.... those 20 are as effective as the 20 on the Marauder. And they are clearly more effective as the 20rds per gun for the JaegerMech

This also misses an important consideration.

Bigger matches may not explicitly consume more ammo you do still need deeper bins of ammo as you will lose mechs and don't entirely control which ones or when.

[Charistoph]

I look at it as I'll accept a minimum of 10 rounds of ammo per gun, but I prefer 15-20 rounds.  A lot depends on the gun and the situation, of course.  RACs and UACs can vary their fire, so consideration of max firing rate should be considered. Campaigns where you might not be able to scavenge ammo will also leave deeper ammo bins to be desired.

However, in some considerations, more than the preference may also be desired.  Why would someone want 90 rounds for an AC/2?  Why, for 45 rounds to be replaced with Flak or another specialty ammunition, of course.  The same could be said of LRMs and SRMs as well (to be fair, the lower level of these weapons should be allowed to allocate ammo in 1/2 ton lots, too).

[idea weenie]

For Clan designs, I tend to prefer needing about 10 turns of ammo.  For Inner Sphere, Charistoph's 15-20 rounds would be good (I'd tend to go with the higher amount unless there is a really good reason not to).

As an example, the following two loadouts, both using Inner Sphere SRM-2 launchers and taking up 6 tons:
Inner Sphere Mech: 4*SRM-2 & 2 tons ammo (duration = 25 turns)
Clan Mech: 5*SRM-2 & 1 ton ammo (duration = 10 turns)

The Clan Mech has 25% more firepower, so it can do better in a short-duration combat.  Get in, win, get out.  If you can't defeat the opponent in 10 turns there is something wrong with the Warrior.  This is combined with the Clan average Gunnery Skill being better than Inner Sphere Gunnery skills, so they are more likely to pull it off.

To me this reflects the Clan desire for a decisive battle/trial, where after the fight they return back to the bay for repair/reloading.  The Inner Sphere figures that they may not have that opportunity, so bring more ammo.

[Col Toda]

Precision Ammo is1/2 the shots per ton . So the Dragon with the AC /5 : 2 tons is only 20 shots . Same for FTL LRM  ammo . Sustained fire for 12 -20 combat turns . 12 shots is plenty for Streak LRM  10s . The greener the gunner the more ammunition needed . The longer ranged you want a higher amount.  1/2 ton of Machine gun ammo is normally enough . That tends to last awhile . For artillery the answer is always more as it permits illumination or mine laying options. 

[DevianID]

Ammo for weapons is one of those things that out of game considerations make a big impact in.  For example, if you play 12 round objective based one off games, more than 12 rounds of ammo is pointless, and you might only need 5 rounds of point blank weapon ammo.  Likewise, if you play long drawn out weekend spanning games that take 40+ turns, the deep ammo bins of a dragon start looking more attractive.

Another consideration is what level of advanced rules you are playing with.  Reloading under fire rules and mech quirks make mechs like the Trebuchet and Enforcer, with shallow ammo bins but speedy reloads, suddenly better than mechs with slightly more ammo but worse reloading abilities.  This also forces you to create 'pit crews' in protected sections of the map to act as rearming bases as you rotate mechs forward and back for ammo.

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

About 20 shots seems quite reasonable for IS force. M1 Abrams' ready ammo rack has 17 rounds. Although current tank battle does not requires them to use all the shots and usually the engagement ends by only shoot the rounds can count on one hand, but battlemechs are far, far durable before crumble, but in the most times either you or your opponent is downed before use 20 - usually 10 - shots.

[Daryk]

Abrams are built to trade themselves at a ridiculous attrition rate... specifically to deal with Soviet armor swarming the Fulda Gap.  Everything else is a "lesser included case".  'Mechs are somewhat different case.  One shot kills are RARE, not the rule.

[TigerShark]

About 20 shots seems quite reasonable for IS force. M1 Abrams' ready ammo rack has 17 rounds. Although current tank battle does not requires them to use all the shots and usually the engagement ends by only shoot the rounds can count on one hand, but battlemechs are far, far durable before crumble, but in the most times either you or your opponent is downed before use 20 - usually 10 - shots.

The M1A2 carries 40 rounds of main gun ammo, total. Though, it is divided between APFSDS, anti-personnel, etc. rounds.

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

The M1A2 carries 40 rounds of main gun ammo, total. Though, it is divided between APFSDS, anti-personnel, etc. rounds.

17 is the number of ready ammo rack, not total. But all the ammunition of mechs and vehicles are effective the ready ammo rack.

[Kovax]

It's not very comforting to have 40-70 rounds of ammo if you only have 5-7 in the ready rack in the turret, and need to pop open the floor panels under the crew to get at the remaining rounds.  Figure on 2-3 HE, 2-3 AP, and 1 smoke at the ready, so you take 2 or 3 shots at a target with the appropriate ammo type, and then you're forced to break off from combat while your hull crew stands on the seats and hands ammo up to the turret crewmen, or else use ammo that's not suited for the task.

As pointed out, a 'Mech has all of its ammo, any carried alternate ammo types, available at the touch of a button.

As also pointed out, at least a dozen factors influence the "ideal" amount of ammo to carry.  It's not as simple as "1 shot per expected turn", especially if the battle can be of indeterminate length.

[Charistoph]

Abrams are built to trade themselves at a ridiculous attrition rate... specifically to deal with Soviet armor swarming the Fulda Gap.  Everything else is a "lesser included case".  'Mechs are somewhat different case.  One shot kills are RARE, not the rule.

Not really.  They were designed to rush in to position and act like AT turrets at that point.  Kind of like a very mobile Maginot Line.  American forces were always meant to push a high positive attrition rate vs Russian forces because they were always out numbered.  Since they knew they couldn't match quantity, they had to overcome it with quality.  Strategies were also in consideration of joint weapon systems, like close coordination with choppers and aircraft.

[Nikas_Zekeval]

I put 15 rounds of fire per weapon as a decent amount for a battle.  Less than that and I find myself holding fire till I get "good target numbers".  Enough for a fair battle, and some extra if it runs longer than expected and keep through to the end.

Note I said rounds of fire, for RACs I assume an average of 4 round bursts over the battle.  So 60 rounds, and 1.5 or so for UACs.  So a bit over 20 rounds, with 20 being a decent compromise for a single cannon.

Multiple weapons of the same class feeding from common magazines helps here.  So you can have 3 SRM-4s share two tons of ammo, or a pair of UAC/10s with five tons of ammo between them.

[Kovax]

I've had a few battles that were "mostly" over in 10-15 rounds, but picking off the stragglers, several platoons of hidden infantry, and that last annoying "bug 'Mech" hiding in deep water (invisible to sensors) eventually consumed another 40+ turns, using up practically all of the remaining ammo loads long before it was finished.  Taking out infantry platoons with the remaining energy weapons (one trooper at a time) turned into a real mess, as the infantry faded back into cover after each encounter (our own ground pounders vanished in one round of fire, doing nothing in return, thanks to uncooperative dice).  Artillery doesn't help a whole lot if it ran out of ammo 30 turns ago.

More ammo may be a complete waste in one game, or a life-saver in another.  That said, there is NO excuse for putting more than 2 tons of AC/20 ammo into a Saladin, because in my experience it will not live long enough to fire the extra rounds.