Your ideal raiding force (Union size)

[Elmoth]

Raiding: same rules as with the Leopard force apply

1. You need hands
2. You need speed
3. You do not need to fight everything, just small stuff that can catch up with you.

from the top of my head I would go:

Corsair
Corsair

Griffin 1N
Catapult 1C
Wolverine 6M (flak ammo)
Wolverine 6M
Wolverine 6M

Phoenix Hawk
Firestarter
Jenner
Spider
Spider

Maxim APC
Infantry platoon

The maxim and infantry can be dropped for a pair of medium mechs. If not, a dual formation in clan style would be better I think, with a raiding and a firebase force. the wolverines can be changed to other mobile shooty models, like their carbon copy (Cronus 3M) or similar. VIndicators would also fit the bill even if they are clearly slower.

[guardiandashi]

my Lyran Raiding force

2 Banshee's
2 Battlemasters

1 Shadow Hawk
2 Griffons
1 Phoenix Hawk

3 heavy vehicle bays with MRV, or HMRV to carry salvage back to the dropship in bays, and 600 tons of extra cargo capacity

[Ruger]

For me, I'd be crazy and go with a theme...if it's "a-raidin' we a-go", then I need to have my Union filled with the following:

2 x Corsair aerospace fighters

Three lances of BattleMechs arranged as follows:

Command Lance: 4 x Wolverine's of various flavors (because WOLVERINES!)

Raiding Lance 1: 4 x Brigands of various flavors...

Raiding Lance 2: 4 x Brigands of various flavors...

Silly, I know, but I couldn't help myself...if the Raider had better stats, I might have gone with them instead of the Wolverine's, and arranged for one Raider and three Brigand's as the makeup for all three lances...

Ruger

[Kovax]

I'd either keep the Union intact and use 12 Battlemechs, or else (if I can afford the time and expense) pull one lance's bays and replace them with 8 light vehicle bays, one Infantry bay, and some extra storage space.  The latter option would give me:
2xCorsair (or Slayer)
4xPXH (or 2xPXH + FS9-H + VL-2T)
2xGRF (or TBT)
2xLCT (or JR7, or HER-2M)
2xSaracen
2xPegasus
1xHeavy APC (SRM)
1xHunter
2xFlatbed Truck
1xInfantry foot platoon (Rifle)
50 extra tons of cargo space

Clearly, the idea is not to engage heavy defensive forces, but to hit and run, or draw enemies away from the objective before hitting from a different approach vector.  Speed and range are typically going to be far more important than firepower in most situations.

[Colt Ward]

So . . . one thing is we do not have a era, BUT I will assume 3025 since the variants listed are for that time frame.


Union-
Keep six mech bays, convert to three light veh bays, and add 3 infantry foot platoons

Mech Lance 1
Thunderbolt 5SE (for a challenge take a Quickdraw)
Catapult C1
Wolverine 6M
Firestarter 9-H

Mech Demi-Lance
Phoenix Hawk 1
Stinger 3R

ASF Flight
2 Stingrays

Hovertank Demi-Lance
2 Drillson or Condor

Capture Team
Karnov VTOL
2 Rifle foot platoons

740+ tons of loot.


You can still drop all the mechs, easier actually since they all jump.  The Demi-Lance is for misdirection, go be seen somewhere tangential to the target area but they can still grab anything that catches their eye since they have hands.  They can also deal with any infantry or brave police they come across.  The raid lance has some ranged firepower, they can all jump and with the Firestarter they can deal with infantry and any strongpoints with their flamethrowers.  Karnov will give an advance peak at the target zone before the mechs arrive, can drop off two foot infantry platoons to secure buildings after the mechs have put down any heavy corporate security, noble guard response, militia or regulars garrison.  They can also evac any priority packages with the Karnov and the two grounded platoons head for the DS using any trucks in the target zone to haul out any loot the raiders want to carry off.

The Demi-Lance and hovertanks can act as a cavalry screen, either to hit any noble/militia/regulars garrison from the flanks or keep up harassment against any defensive positions that might otherwise think of sallying to defend the target.  They can also escort any convoy of captured trucks back to the DS wherever it set down.  The Karnov can also fly overwatch to the convoy.  ASF can loiter in orbit so they do not have to set down.

3050+?  1st FS Armored Cav
Lao Hu 3B
Firestarter Omni (C3 versions, likely LRM)
Thanatos 4S
Falconer 8R

Wraith TR1
Stealth 2D1

Hovertanks-
Musketeers or Regulators- Fulcrums if you want to be expensive

VTOL Detachement
Sprint (C3)
Cavalry (INF)

IS Std (LRR) on VTOL
Grenadier (HK) on FS9
Foot infantry platoon

720+  tons of cargo

[truetanker]

Shakes head....


Union modified for 159.5 tons of cargo, not counting the Buffalo's 160 cargo capacity...

2x Vulcan-5N ( Old yes, Ancient maybe but effective? Oh yeah! )

8x Mech: 4- OSR-2M, 2- OSR-2L and OTL-4F ( Giving me 4 jumpers and 2 support variants all with 5/8 hands! )

4x Buffalo http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Buffalo

10x APC Hover, Standard... 4- LRM, 2- Sensor, 4- SRM ( grouped in lances of five each )

2x Rifle Infantry, Foot Platoons with Semi-Portable Machine Guns in support

15 ton Infantry Bay ( carries all APC and Buffalo drivers and techs for them )

TT

[Greatclub]

2 * Stealth -2D2. Fast, reasonably tough, and reasonably hitty. He's your point guy

6 * Wolverine 9D. A solid Wolverine, except it can't jump and doesn't have much besides critseeking. But that's made up for by the final choice,

4 * Bombardier -05A. Four arrows a turn (8 if you manage a time-on-target) are nothing to laugh at, and everything else in the company has TAG.

2 * aerospace fighter - maybe Slayer, but I don't really pay attention to the air side.

Everything has hands. Cruising speed of 5 across the force is respectable, and it can go even faster with MASC and jump jets to generate really high TMMs. The Bombardiers have deep enough ammo bins {bombardier- Bluescreen - deep ammo bin - reboot} that you can carry some specialist ammo - flak, flechette, smoke, inferno, whatever.

Downside - stupid high price tag, very ammo dependant, lots of XL engines, and the only deep hits are the arrows.

[Atarlost]

Oh sure... 14 dedicated ASFs of equivalent weight would absolutely massacre 14 LAMs... but they'd also down a Union before it could drop any raiders too, so the point is kind of moot.

The thing is that 14 LAMs will also have trouble with a wing of Defenders, Cranes, Steinadlers, or Suzumes.  They may not be vulnerable to thresholding, but they still lawndart.  Add even a couple dedicated ASF possibly even crap like Star Daggers as top cover so you can't flee for space without getting shot at and even in victory you're not going to go home with 14 LAMs.  A raiding force might be able to lose a Stinger here or a Wasp there, especially if it can sometimes salvage mechs from the militia, but it can't afford to lose a Stinger LAM or a Wasp LAM and stay in business.  Even if you're a DCMS formation, Irece only produces a handful of LAMs a year for the whole army.  If you're not DCMS every LAM is irreplaceable. 

The dropship doesn't add much if the fight is in the atmosphere.  Spheroids aren't exactly maneuverable in that context. 

[Daryk]

I don't think conventional fighters would be as much of a threat as ASFs.  They just can't carry enough armor.

[Kovax]

I don't think conventional fighters would be as much of a threat as ASFs.  They just can't carry enough armor.

Not as much of a threat, you are correct.  They are still a threat, however, and if they're taking out even one or two expensive toys of yours in the process of evaporating, they've paid for themselves, and you're the one stuck going home with the larger repair and replacement bill.

[Daryk]

If the raid destroys what it was sent to destroy, it's still a win.

[ANS Kamas P81]

To quote Sparta, "If."

[JPArbiter]

I would say a two lance force, the first being movers and the second being there to provide cover. Battlemech recovery vehicles can be used to carry equipment too heavy for the haul lance. Finally as the Union supports organic air support, the local light fighter of choice to act as pickets/recon

Presuming a third succession war period, when supply raids are common, i would organize as

Attack lance
CRD-3R Crusader
JVN-10N Javelin w/inferno missiles
QDK-5A Quickdraw
HBK-4G hunchback

Haul lance
2x ostsol
2x Phoenix hawks

Cargo lance
4x Battlemech recovery vehicles

Air lance
2x sabre fighters

[Colt Ward]

If the raid destroys what it was sent to destroy, it's still a win.

The OP's raid force is specifically set up to capture & loot?

[Matti]

The OP's raid force is specifically set up to capture & loot?

Yes, indeed. Shortcoming of that is Union itself doesn't have much room left for loot, unless all the 'Mech and vehicle bays get stuffed so full that it gets in the way of maintenance and repairs; and we can use that for food and other daily necessities (WC-paper) while enroute to the target. Seriously though, my force needs a cargo 'Ship for loot & salvage. Alternative is to take bigger 'Ship and modify it appropriately. I had posted customized Mule-class 'Ship with 'Mech bays, vehicle bays, infantry bays, and it still had much cargo space left. I can't seem to find it at the moment. Maybe it used to be in old & now deleted forum?

[Colt Ward]

Jumbo is better than the Mule for that- thicker skin, 2 SC bays, and more cargo but one trade off is it lacks defense guns.

With how widespread the Union is supposed to be, and its many after-market modifications (or even some being purpose built) plenty have to be floating around out there as mixed company (Lance mechs, light/heavy vehs, and infantry w/transport) or even 2 lances & cargo.  Unfortunately we do not get sheets for those because its not a hugely popular item.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

A Union's cargo capacity of 74.5 tons is pathetic in general, not just for a capacity to haul successfully stolen loot.  However think about where those numbers come from, you can look at what that "capacity" means in various ways.

the 74.5 number is what's left over after starting with a value of 3,600 tons for the entire vessel, minus everything you put in.  The 702 ton engine can push 3,600 tons at 1.5 gees under safe thrust (3 thrust).  So, if you overload by one half a ton and get to 3,600.5 tons, the engine can't move the DropShip at all?  Not likely.

While the game doesn't allow fractional thrust points, there seems to be little reason to say thrust can only be expended in neat half-gee amounts for any in-universe reason.  If it IS possible to thrust at 1.25g (2.5 thrust/turn): the Union's engine safe thrust can push exactly 4,320 tons at 1.25g.

4,320 - 3,600 = 720 extra tons of cargo is "available" if you just fly slower, and if you have the physical space to fit it in.  Being able to safely stow extra tons of cargo doesn't seem to need to rely on extra structural reinforcement.  The Union's decks are already rated to hold mechs at up to  2.5 gees.  That means potentially 2,400 tons of capability are there just in the architecture (12 100 ton mechs = 1,200 tons at 2 thrust, or 3,000 tons at 5 thrust)

Edit: if your raid doesn't require you to take the Union off from the planetary surface, the Union's engine can push exactly 5,400 tons at 1 gee while still staying at safe thrust.  5,400 - 3,600 = 1,800 tons over and above the 74.5 tons of cargo.

[Sartris]

just tow a buccaneer like an CG-4A and all of your loot problems are solved

[Tai Dai Cultist]

just tow a buccaneer like an CG-4A and all of your loot problems are solved

I agree.  9 times out of 10 if you can secure a planethead for a Union, you can secure a planethead for a Union AND a cargo hauler like a Buc or a Mule.

But sometimes you really just need to use a single DropShip.  And if you/your GM doesn't mind some annoying arithmetic, overloading that single DropShip IMO seems like a viable option.

[Colt Ward]

Its not the beachhead that is the problem.  The absolute bottleneck for troop transport is docking collars- part of why I say most planetary invasion infantry use a converted cargo ship like a Mule, Mammoth or Jumbo to move to the target world along with supplies in the follow on waves.  Armor forces on combat transports, for raids or in 1st Wave, should be fusion or now FCE powered while the bulk of the armor assets and support vehicles using ICE also come in on converted cargo ships.

[Elmoth]

You can load a lot of troops in a ship if you stow them as cargo. 600 tons in a Leopard alone means a full company of mechs if you do not go for assaults. The only problem is infantyr, that weighs a lot for anything but short jumps (and a short jump is still 2 weeks minimum). So yeah, an invasion will be mostly cargo haulers stuffed with materiel to the top. And then you add the overweight capacity of Ta Dai Cultist.

Cheers,
Xavi

[Matti]

You can load a lot of troops in a ship if you stow them as cargo.

Nah, no way. Rules allow it, but they need like 10x more of consumable supplies, air I presume. Best to equip some infantry bays at 5 tons each for 28 soldiers/other personnel (techs, vehicle crews), and that dramatically reduces supply needs.

[Dave Talley]

try a seeker, configure for two mech lances, could still easily carry a company plus of vehicles and has cargo and troop space

[Sartris]

Nah, no way. Rules allow it, but they need like 10x more of consumable supplies, air I presume. Best to equip some infantry bays at 5 tons each for 28 soldiers/other personnel (techs, vehicle crews), and that dramatically reduces supply needs.

StratOps accounts for the added supply consumption. It can get pretty steep, especially if your cargo vessel is loaded with a lot of infantry

When transported in aerospace units or submarines, infantry and combat unit crews must be supplied with separate quarters (long term) or infantry bays (for short missions). If not, use of various “consumables” (primarily air and water) is extremely high from the vessel’s life support systems, which must draw upon emergency reserves and operate in an “open” cycle because the recycling systems are not meant to handle personnel camping in the cargo bay. This consumption is 1 ton of food, air, water and so on per day per 5 people, rounded up to the nearest ton. Infantry bays (and the quarters included in other combat unit bays) are hardly a better choice, requiring 1 ton of consumables per day per 20 people; quarters are the preferred means of transporting personnel by submarine or spacecraft.

[Daryk]

The break even point for consumables between bays and "proper" quarters is around 90 days.

[Matti]

The break even point for consumables between bays and "proper" quarters

What bays? Cargo bay or infantry bay?

[Daryk]

Infantry bays... cargo bay camping is just a bad idea.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

There's three consumption rates for people onboard spacecraft. The most advantageous is for quarters. The least is being transported literally like cattle. In the middle is the Bay.

IIRC the breakpoint of 90 days is quarters vs bay.

It'd be much shorter for quarters vs cargo, but the IIRC the math might be linear and could still be 90 days for bays vs cargo.

[Colt Ward]

I also think infantry bays should be something like shipping containers that have universal connections where they can be set up in the bay and hooked into the ship's systems.

[CrossfirePilot]

Whatever my Broke *** mercs can cobble together at the time.  :D