Author Topic: MechWarrior: Destiny  (Read 128288 times)

Insaniac99

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #150 on: 04 August 2019, 18:04:07 »
If they've managed to change it into something that I'm looking for in an RPG then it would be inaccurate to say it is based on the Cue system it'd be that different.

The definition of "based on the Cue system" seems to be very open to interpretation in that from the examples we have that can mean a wide variety of things with varying level of granularity.  I plan to keep an open mind and see what the draft they plan to send to backers looks like before I start to judge the system.

Talen5000

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #151 on: 04 August 2019, 18:16:54 »
the complexity of character creation is what has kept me from the BT roleplaying game scene.. when you read the rules for making a character and can't even sort out where to start despite examples given in the book, it is a no go for me.

It took a while, but I think...THINK....I've gotten the hang of it.

It isn't really that complex when you get down to it, but it is VERY badly laid out and has some weird decisions that do not make sense.

The rebate for example, doesn't do anything except add complexity and make the system mote confusing.
You also have a lot listed under Compulsion that would be better listed as a Quirk, you are awarded skills that would be better as a specialisation, the optimisation process removes a fair bit of flavour as well, a sidestep that reputations can be good and bad at the same time, and so on.

When it should just be....

Start with 4500 -5300 points.

Choose your faction
Choose your subfaction and era
Choose your phenotype

Assign base xps

Age...0-10. Stage 1
Age...11-16 Stage 2
Age...17-20 Stage 3...field skills get 20% off
Stage 4...20+

Assigning  XPs, skills and traits as you go.


Then use the heroic rules from the Companion.
« Last Edit: 04 August 2019, 18:21:00 by Talen5000 »
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Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #152 on: 04 August 2019, 18:53:13 »
Granted I use a spreadsheet these days, but it's really not that complex.

Before doing any math, have an idea of generally what you want for a character.  That should narrow down Affiliation, and Stages 1 and 2 pretty quickly.  Stage 3 is a means to a Stage 4 end, and so they need to be considered together.  Stages 3 and 4 can also be repeated (within limits).

Optimization and aging will yield more XP to spend, and you can use these to round out Attributes, Traits, or Skills as desired.

Even with a player who wanted to literally roll dice to randomly assign everything, we were done in under an hour.

With a reasonable player and GM, the characters produced feel like they belong in the BT universe in a way no previous edition could match.

Bedwyr

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #153 on: 04 August 2019, 22:42:16 »
Hi all.

I have merged the two Mechwarrior: Destiny threads, bringing one over from the AToW forum. The discussion and speculation are better suited to be nearer all the other new product threads in General Discussion.
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #154 on: 05 August 2019, 03:21:52 »
Thanks Bedwyr!  :thumbsup:

William J. Pennington

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #155 on: 05 August 2019, 16:13:07 »
What's wrong with the CUE system? (Genuinely curious, I haven't played with it yet.)

I've deleted several detailed reasons why I do not like the cue system at all, but they are irrelevant. You can search and fins details about it, but its a pretty bland crunch free, rules lite system. That right there is going to make it a dead issue for most existing Battletech fans.  This system doesn't have a name that will on its own drive any new players to a Battletech RPG, which is a small market anyway. Its market will be fans of the tabletop wargame primarily, (Battletech and Alpha Strike) or those who ever liked or played any previous edition of a Battletech RPG; and they will not like this system, because its not what anyone is wanting.

I'd urge Catalyst not to waste time on this project. Go for a revised ATOW  second edition. Streamline creation and combat, revise some things that need tweaking, release as a PDF. Or just steal Shadowrun 5th edition, strip out magic, some gear, most of the matrix stuff,  incorporate the mission errata. Or do nothing, which would still be a more financially advantageous option that making a Cue system based Battletech RPG.





Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #156 on: 05 August 2019, 16:16:22 »
All right... this coming weekend, I'll try to post a "streamlined" (or rather, fully explained) version of AToW character creation.  It may be a lot of bookkeeping (which spreadsheets vastly simplify), but it's really not that hard.  Really.

Orin J.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #157 on: 05 August 2019, 17:22:46 »
This system doesn't have a name that will on its own drive any new players to a Battletech RPG, which is a small market anyway.
in cases like battletech, it's the setting's job to entice people and the rules system's job to go down easy enough they get hooked. a huge part of the reason battletech is a small market is it's much closer to the deep end of mental investment, something i'm hoping alpha strike can help with by taking a turn as the "face" release. but a properly handled RPG would do this just as well!

I'd urge Catalyst not to waste time on this project. Go for a revised ATOW  second edition.

if it got far enough for us to hear about it you're very likely a couple years late with that flippant remark, willie. while i agree with you that a revision of how AToW is handled could easily do the trick, this is all but assured to come out and f it does pick up a lot of fans, then we should be glad CGL rolled all boxcars, 'ight?
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #158 on: 05 August 2019, 17:27:43 »
I've went to a streamlined pure point buy process. Forget lifepaths.  Give people a fixed amount of points. Set a minimum and maximum age. Remove slow/fast learner. No form of school bonus. Then just buy what you want, straight out, looking at lifepaths as guidelines/reference material. Easy peasy.


Daryk

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #159 on: 05 August 2019, 17:32:56 »
For me, point buy drives more cookie cutter characters than Life Modules.  Life Modules give you more interesting options when you're optimizing your points, looking where to invest those last 10-20 points.

Dahmin_Toran

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #160 on: 05 August 2019, 18:17:39 »
I just went over the Valiant RPG Quick Start Rules...I hope Mechwarrior: Destiny is not based on these rules.

Orin J.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #161 on: 05 August 2019, 18:24:48 »
I just went over the Valiant RPG Quick Start Rules...I hope Mechwarrior: Destiny is not based on these rules.

some reasoning might be more productive to conversation, some of us have maybe been a little busy to see what you mean.... xp
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Wrangler

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #162 on: 05 August 2019, 18:33:18 »
I just went over the Valiant RPG Quick Start Rules...I hope Mechwarrior: Destiny is not based on these rules.
Yeah, i wasn't that inspired by it. I guess we will see.
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victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #163 on: 05 August 2019, 20:36:05 »
Reprint from the AToW 2nd edition post

So to sum up the Cue system ( Shadowrun: Anarchy style)
1. Can't have more then 6 skills ever ( 5 active, 1 Knowledge) Great way to go when lack of diversity was the number one problem with 2nd.
2. All Spells/Cyber/Decks/Etc. are called Shadow amps and you are limited to 6
3. Cues are for lack of a better work catch phrases about your character that you are to use to tell a story (yes its a narrative game)
4. you get your skills/attributes/gear/weapons/contacts from a package related to the power level of the game chosen by the GM.
5.all characters get 2 advantages and one disadvantage.
6. Armor is bought on a +1 points bases with karma.
7 there are plot points that players can use to change the narrative for the GM/NPC/PC so if one of your teammates thinks it cool they can screw you to tell a cool story.
Overall it's a horrid game that never should have been made.
and the fact that CGL thinks it would be welcomed as the new Mechwarrior RPG shows how disconnected they have become to their player base, as if shadowrun 6th edition hadn't shown that already.

The game makes 2nd edition look like rocketscience.
« Last Edit: 05 August 2019, 20:37:50 by victor_shaw »

William J. Pennington

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #164 on: 05 August 2019, 20:58:52 »
For me, point buy drives more cookie cutter characters than Life Modules.  Life Modules give you more interesting options when you're optimizing your points, looking where to invest those last 10-20 points.

I certainly encourage reading the paths as guidelines. But following the modules strictly by definition are just as much of a cookie cutter. It just comes down to whose cookie you want to make.

William J. Pennington

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #165 on: 05 August 2019, 21:09:41 »
in cases like battletech, it's the setting's job to entice people and the rules system's job to go down easy enough they get hooked. a huge part of the reason battletech is a small market is it's much closer to the deep end of mental investment, something i'm hoping alpha strike can help with by taking a turn as the "face" release. but a properly handled RPG would do this just as well!

The settings pull in is from a fairly crunchy tabletop game. Even the Alpha Strike version is more crunchy than anything reflected by the cue system. Whatever product that gets you to the setting is pulling a segment less prone to favor a Cue system type game.

Quote
this is all but assured to come out and f it does pick up a lot of fans, then we should be glad CGL rolled all boxcars, 'ight?

I think the odds of it doing that make rolling boxcars look easy.

Thorvidar

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #166 on: 05 August 2019, 22:47:13 »
Reprint from the AToW 2nd edition post

So to sum up the Cue system ( Shadowrun: Anarchy style)
1. Can't have more then 6 skills ever ( 5 active, 1 Knowledge) Great way to go when lack of diversity was the number one problem with 2nd.
2. All Spells/Cyber/Decks/Etc. are called Shadow amps and you are limited to 6
3. Cues are for lack of a better work catch phrases about your character that you are to use to tell a story (yes its a narrative game)
4. you get your skills/attributes/gear/weapons/contacts from a package related to the power level of the game chosen by the GM.
5.all characters get 2 advantages and one disadvantage.
6. Armor is bought on a +1 points bases with karma.
7 there are plot points that players can use to change the narrative for the GM/NPC/PC so if one of your teammates thinks it cool they can screw you to tell a cool story.
Overall it's a horrid game that never should have been made.
and the fact that CGL thinks it would be welcomed as the new Mechwarrior RPG shows how disconnected they have become to their player base, as if shadowrun 6th edition hadn't shown that already.

The game makes 2nd edition look like rocketscience.

I have ran an Anarchy game. Didn't think it was too horrible, but not my favorite system to run by far. That said I would take that system over the mess of AToW, which I have also ran and the game was bogged down by Character creation and the very crunchy system. I liked 3rd, cept for the random character gen, and the many different weapon system skills in a mech I thought was stupid and so removed them in favor of one weapon skill and created weapon special advantages instead.


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Sartris

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #167 on: 05 August 2019, 23:04:43 »
the character generation in 3rd edition was gonzo. the one major campaign we tried, i ended up with an ex Liao tank mechanic who was practically MacGyver and my friend, starting from the same background, ended up with five total skills and lost an arm along the way. His only useful skill - driving, which was negated by the missing arm. i can't recall many other times the group had that much fun. i understand why they changed it but damn that was entertaining.

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Orin J.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #168 on: 05 August 2019, 23:31:18 »
So to sum up the Cue system ( Shadowrun: Anarchy style)
1. Can't have more then 6 skills ever ( 5 active, 1 Knowledge) Great way to go when lack of diversity was the number one problem with 2nd.
2. All Spells/Cyber/Decks/Etc. are called Shadow amps and you are limited to 6
3. Cues are for lack of a better work catch phrases about your character that you are to use to tell a story (yes its a narrative game)
4. you get your skills/attributes/gear/weapons/contacts from a package related to the power level of the game chosen by the GM.
5.all characters get 2 advantages and one disadvantage.
6. Armor is bought on a +1 points bases with karma.
7 there are plot points that players can use to change the narrative for the GM/NPC/PC so if one of your teammates thinks it cool they can screw you to tell a cool story.
Overall it's a horrid game that never should have been made.
and the fact that CGL thinks it would be welcomed as the new Mechwarrior RPG shows how disconnected they have become to their player base, as if shadowrun 6th edition hadn't shown that already.

i physically recoiled a little, reading that. i take it they're not planning on marketing this game to new players, because i can't see that system not getting turned into a revenge party by the average newbie group i taught.
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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #169 on: 06 August 2019, 05:22:07 »
the character generation in 3rd edition was gonzo. the one major campaign we tried, i ended up with an ex Liao tank mechanic who was practically MacGyver and my friend, starting from the same background, ended up with five total skills and lost an arm along the way. His only useful skill - driving, which was negated by the missing arm. i can't recall many other times the group had that much fun. i understand why they changed it but damn that was entertaining.
Yeah, 3rd ed character gen is problematic, it's a bit too likely to result in you getting injured, especially early on

SteelRaven

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #170 on: 06 August 2019, 08:33:27 »
Something tells me we are going to have the same back and forth this forum usually has with any given system:

We want details... Too many details, simplify it... Now simplified it too much!
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Frabby

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #171 on: 06 August 2019, 08:40:50 »
I can see a possible market for a simple RPG add-on product to enhance the boardgame experience. Something filling the gap between Warchest campaign rules and full-on AToW roleplaying.
However, I'd expect such a product to connect to one or both of these rulesets, to give groups the option to scale their play detail level by switching between rules. From what's been said here so far, Destiny will be a standalone, completely unrelated and incompatible ruleset.
If true, that would be a surprising design decision.
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SteelRaven

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #172 on: 06 August 2019, 08:54:32 »
Actually have friends who love the BTU thanks to the PC games but had the table top ruined for them thanks to rule lawyers making their first game a hour long debate over firing declaration.

They have played RPs with similar character builders as AToW but their first TW game had killed mech combat for them. Destiny having a standalone combat system may be what they are looking for.
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victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #173 on: 06 August 2019, 10:08:38 »
I have ran an Anarchy game. Didn't think it was too horrible, but not my favorite system to run by far. That said I would take that system over the mess of AToW, which I have also ran and the game was bogged down by Character creation and the very crunchy system. I liked 3rd, cept for the random character gen, and the many different weapon system skills in a mech I thought was stupid and so removed them in favor of one weapon skill and created weapon special advantages instead.

I feel I have to be clearer about my response to this game.
The Cue system probably works well for the film noir/pulp sci-fi games it was designed for (Valiant/Cosmic patrol) two genres that I don't like all that much.
My issues comes from my firm belief that RPG mechanics should be constructed to fit the setting and not the setting getting shoehorned into the mechanics.
When you have an established setting with an existing fanbase, every effort should be made to allow the setting to dictated the mechanics and not be ham-stringed by existing mechanics that where never intended for the setting.
This was the main issues with the D20 crazes a few years back, you have companies trying to shoehorn settings into the D20 system that did not handle the nuances of the setting well (Rokugan d20) so the game felt flat. I used this as an example since one of my players for L5R 4th edition started with Rokugan d20 and disliked the game, but after I convinced him to give the R&K version a try he loved it.
So While I don't like the Cue system, it was meant for genres that are not to my taste, so that's to be expected.
I don't feel it works well with cyberpunk or hard sci-fi like Shadowrun and Battletech.

Dahmin_Toran

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #174 on: 06 August 2019, 13:37:11 »
i physically recoiled a little, reading that. i take it they're not planning on marketing this game to new players, because i can't see that system not getting turned into a revenge party by the average newbie group i taught.

Now you know why I had my reservations  ^-^

Talen5000

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #175 on: 06 August 2019, 14:08:06 »
I don't feel it works well with cyberpunk or hard sci-fi like Shadowrun and Battletech.

Possibly...do you have a system in mind that does?
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victor_shaw

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #176 on: 06 August 2019, 14:53:59 »
Possibly...do you have a system in mind that does?

I don't have any issues with Mechwarrior 2 or AToW if the character creation issues are fixed.
And I think Shadowrun 5th edition just needed some tweaking.

Both systems designed for their settings that at least to me worked.

monbvol

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #177 on: 06 August 2019, 15:29:48 »
AToW really does work very well for Battletech.

But to get back on topic I remain convinced that Cue based systems are not for me.  At the same time though if this does work for Catalyst, so be it.  I will actually be quite happy for them.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #178 on: 06 August 2019, 15:35:53 »
If AToW is maintained in parallel, AND the Cue thing draws in new players, I won't have any objections, even if I never play the Cue version.

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Re: MechWarrior: Destiny
« Reply #179 on: 06 August 2019, 15:55:46 »
Don't think there is any one system that makes everyone happy, may as well try something new and see what happens.
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