Author Topic: MotW repost: Linebacker  (Read 26812 times)

Orin J.

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #30 on: 02 June 2020, 18:03:53 »
I've been a bit of a fan of the Linebacker, it's got good speed, decent armor and honestly the pod space isn't as bad as some people claim. i think its real problem is it's not optimized for spamming paired CERPPCs and that weapon is so friggin' good that using a loadout that's not getting at least two of them is effectively handicapping yourself with a clan 'mech.

that said, i mainly liked the original design because it took that "arms coming out of the hips" design and made it look effective and protected. apparently people disagreed and it's being removed, but i still think it's a good look, especially when plog got his grubby fingers all over it.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #31 on: 02 June 2020, 18:12:25 »
going down to ERLL's would have improved it a lot.. you could make that LRM a useful size with the 4 tons you saved, and be able to drop a few of the fixed DHS to allow even more podspace.

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #32 on: 02 June 2020, 19:35:37 »
going down to ERLL's would have improved it a lot.. you could make that LRM a useful size with the 4 tons you saved, and be able to drop a few of the fixed DHS to allow even more podspace.

That's called the "A"  ;)
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Greatclub

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #33 on: 02 June 2020, 19:44:08 »
going down to ERLL's would have improved it a lot.. you could make that LRM a useful size with the 4 tons you saved, and be able to drop a few of the fixed DHS to allow even more podspace.

That's called the A.

The prime has a nice 2, 1, 2 volley pattern with the PPCs, and has missiles to fill the off turns. 2 PPC every turn would be better, but that's what customs are for.


massey

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #34 on: 02 June 2020, 22:14:00 »
It can basically do a 2-2-1 or even a 2-2-2-1 pattern without too many problems.  You just have to be willing to go up heat a little bit.

Calimehter

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #35 on: 05 June 2020, 08:48:35 »
I think the important thing to remember every time someone reads "replace the Timber Wolf" is to follow that line with "IN STRIKER CLUSTERS"

As long as you do that, your fine.

When you remove all those 5/8 Clan Heavies & the Garg from your Striker Clusters,  which you SHOULD do if you want them to run fasters, then this thing fits right in with the Storm Crow, Pouncer, Adder, & Kit Fox.

Quite true.  This aspect of the Linebacker stands out more when you go to Battleforce scale (or even TW with lots of mapsheets) and are looking to add some durability to Stars of Move=6 Mechs just like the Adder and Kit Fox.  Stormcrows fit the bill too, but it is nice to have a true Heavy Mech (and its extra pip of structure in Battleforce/Alpha Strike) mixed in here and there without having to slow the whole Star down.

I didn't like this Mech much when it came out, but looking at it now after some Battleforce experience, I can see why the Wolves were interested in trying to get a heavy Mech into this speed category.

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #36 on: 15 June 2020, 18:21:12 »
Interesting, I had not looked at the Linebacker in terms of AlphaStrike/BF stats.

Things like that annoying heat imbalance at BT scale might not matter there & even if it does, AS new PV is supposed to just be based on whatever the stats end up at so be balanced regardless.

Thanks for pointing that out, I like putting my L-Backer in charge of a bunch of 6/9 Light/Mediums but also using it as a faster mech at the AS level might be an option now.
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Savage Coyote

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #37 on: 01 July 2020, 18:49:12 »
I have Linebackers (well one, a D) leading Phantoms, Pouncers, Adders, Stormcrows and anything faster... it’s a great Star Commanders ride with enough speed/armor to project itself along with its star-mates into the battle...

Empyrus

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #38 on: 01 July 2020, 19:12:22 »
Weirdly, i've noticed that my major issue with the Linebacker is not its inefficiency but rather that it basically has no configurations that are styled after the Prime: Namely lacking hand actuators.
The C adds a second gun to the left arm, the E goes for missiles, and the H is close but goes for torso lasers rather than missiles.

But hopefully the Recognition Guide series adds something that matches the Prime's looks and is also good without stupidity. Then again, i don't think my miniature collection will include a Linebacker so whatever.

Admittedly there's not a lot you can do with the Prime's styling even if you don't adhere the looks 100%. Lasers instead of PPCs is an option, with some tweaks to missiles.
A pity about spending tonnage unnecessarily on internal heat sinks. Usually that's not an issue but in a tonnage-limited design that has quite a bit of space it is an annoyance. You could easily fit 21.5 tons worth of equipment to the Linebacker even if four of those where just heat sinks.

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #39 on: 02 July 2020, 04:52:40 »
Empyrus, thinking of picked up items as footballs? It is a Linebacker after all...

About the mini ; I've got one that I'm kit-bashing to more resemble the Kickstarter art work ( excellent line art baby the way ) . Just need to figure out what'll work to finish the legs in a few areas and I'll be pretty close. Yes, it'll have a waist and, yes, it'll twist. Should be awesome when finished.

sadlerbw

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #40 on: 16 July 2020, 15:48:23 »
I always found it odd that the Ghost Bears never jumped all over this design. It seems right up their alley: On the heavy side, too much engine, and the prime config uses a couple big guns with largely pointless secondaries. This thing could be the Gladiator's little brother, conceptually speaking. The Bears often like their mechs big and fast, which would seem to fit the Linebacker to a T.

Empyrus

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #41 on: 17 July 2020, 08:04:27 »
Empyrus, thinking of picked up items as footballs? It is a Linebacker after all...
I don't even associate the Linebacker with football (you mean handegg?), not being American.
Initial art is the one that creates biggest impression always. No hands on that, means handed version is weird and vice-versa.

Scotty

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #42 on: 20 July 2020, 01:16:32 »
I've never used the Linebacker outside of Alpha Strike, but I'm looking at the B and getting "Big Shadow Cat" vibes.  Makes me feel like a config that pods in a Supercharger and a Gauss plus some backup weapons would be pretty popular.

I don't hate most of these configurations, but looking forward to the eventual T config I can't help but lament the 5-tube missile arrangements.  Nothing is going to make two LRM-5s impressive on a Clan 'Mech.
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Sabelkatten

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #43 on: 20 July 2020, 01:40:09 »
I think adding a LRM5 is usually a good thing. But only if you have enough heat sinks to use it! The Prime would have SO much more use for a pair of DHS.

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #44 on: 20 July 2020, 01:58:12 »
I'm entirely unimpressed with the performance of LRM-5s.  Quadruple-ER Small Lasers, as far as I'm concerned.  Having one to put out smoke rounds, or having a couple to put a long range weapon on a Light 'Mech that can't handle bigger launchers, that's perfectly fine.  Paired LRM-5s on a fast Clan Heavy?  Almost literally anything else would be more useful.
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Sabelkatten

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #45 on: 20 July 2020, 04:14:51 »
Why? A pair of LRM5s with a ton of ammo and 2 DHS is 5 tons for ~6 damage and decent critseeking potential. An ERPPC with 7.5 DHS is 13.5 tons for 15 damage - headcapping for certain, but also sucks for critseeking and less damage/ton.

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #46 on: 20 July 2020, 06:19:41 »
I've never used the Linebacker outside of Alpha Strike, but I'm looking at the B and getting "Big Shadow Cat" vibes.  Makes me feel like a config that pods in a Supercharger and a Gauss plus some backup weapons would be pretty popular.

I don't hate most of these configurations, but looking forward to the eventual T config I can't help but lament the 5-tube missile arrangements.  Nothing is going to make two LRM-5s impressive on a Clan 'Mech.
I'm seeing a 5-tube and a 4-tube, meaning you can't even match them
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Colt Ward

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #47 on: 20 July 2020, 09:23:24 »
Well, the Linebacker is built on Donegal . . . its entirely possible it could have a mixed tech base weapons load- give it a TBolt 5 for instance, or even MMLs.

But yeah, I think the Linebacker is a design which in the Dark Ages would be best using a Supercharger which gets the most use out of that big engine.
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #48 on: 20 July 2020, 10:07:30 »
Yeh, 9 T-Bolt tubes are quite the firepower.  ;D
Or a compact gyro and a 9-tube ATM? Eh, the mech has already been described as plenty unimpressive. Maybe an lrm 5 just isn't meant to be ... impressive.
That said, I fail to see how the 5 is worse than any bigger array (for it's price in tonnage and slots).
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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #49 on: 21 July 2020, 09:57:29 »
I'm entirely unimpressed with the performance of LRM-5s.  Quadruple-ER Small Lasers, as far as I'm concerned.  Having one to put out smoke rounds, or having a couple to put a long range weapon on a Light 'Mech that can't handle bigger launchers, that's perfectly fine.  Paired LRM-5s on a fast Clan Heavy?  Almost literally anything else would be more useful.
It's approaching min-max territory but paired LRM 5's give statistically identical performance to an LRM 10, and are a half ton lighter.
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Scotty

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #50 on: 21 July 2020, 11:21:39 »
5+1 is much more likely to do some good on accident over a couple turns than 3+3.

LRM-10s also aren't particularly impressive.
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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #51 on: 21 July 2020, 11:34:08 »
I think if I was trying to match the Prime w/ a configuration, I'd use either ERLL or LPLs instead of PPCs to free up some tonnage or lower heat.

Maybe one of each w/ a 2 ton TC added for good measure?

The missile launchers are fine at LRM5 & Streak4, not much you can do there.
And the ERSL in the rear is the same.

Other options might be an Angel
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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #52 on: 21 July 2020, 20:22:38 »
I always forgave the Linbacker's faults as the result of the Wolves being cutoff from access to the Stormcrow and only having a heavy mech line available to remedy the situation. #headcanon

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #53 on: 24 July 2020, 17:16:28 »
I always forgave the Linbacker's faults as the result of the Wolves being cutoff from access to the Stormcrow and only having a heavy mech line available to remedy the situation. #headcanon

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That's one way to look at it, but the Crow is available to everyone.

I see it as they just like fielding mechs a bit bigger than necessary.  Just to prove they can be the "biggest" on the block.

Gargoyle,  Linebacker,  Ice Ferret........ every one of them gets better if they loose 5 tons.

They don't go for a full Weight category higher like the Bears,  just 5 tons.   :)

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #54 on: 25 July 2020, 23:41:45 »
That's one way to look at it, but the Crow is available to everyone.

I see it as they just like fielding mechs a bit bigger than necessary.  Just to prove they can be the "biggest" on the block.

Gargoyle,  Linebacker,  Ice Ferret........ every one of them gets better if they loose 5 tons.

They don't go for a full Weight category higher like the Bears,  just 5 tons.   :)
I don't see it as they can field better things at 5 tons lighter, but more they like fielding big things that go as fast as things up to 15-20 tons lighter and you can add the Phantom to that list. Each of those four have reputations as weak for their tonnage, but they have great speed for their tonnage. Use them in Stars with fast, lighter allies. Then you can use them as the bodyguard, bully or anvil taking advantage of their heavier armor & structure than the rest of the starmates.
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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #55 on: 05 June 2021, 18:37:41 »
I guess I adopted this, so I might as well do the rec guide update.


Two new Linebackers in Rec Guide 6. They’re available to the Wolves, other Wolves, Kells, and weirdly, the Ravens. Plus anyone else who has the pods and salvaged & kept a Linebacker during the last century.

The I has enough machine guns to make a piranha feel inadequate. Twenty of them in six arrays; four with 3, two with four. The long range token is an ER large pulse laser. A supercharger lets you get in effective range – all three hexes of it – a little faster, or around the back of slower mechs. It is also going to run iced over after two engine crits, as it doesn’t take advantage of the fixed heat sinks. Arrays mean it can’t use rapid fire mode on the Mgs so you have fifteen turns of fire. Against unarmoured  infantry it is the grim reaper, and crit-vulnerable vees don’t like getting close either.

 Mech on mech requires significant risk and luck to get your BV back. Your ideal turn with an I is getting behind someone (not hard with its supercharger,) stripping a torso rear with the laser, and getting multiple crits in the same spot with the machine guns. Or just vaporizing a couple infantry companies.

The T is even more anemic in damage against mechs, but you can add battlearmor to the list of things that hate it. A sSRM 4 and sLRM 5 max out at 13 damage, well short of a PSR. Anything without a heat track (vees, infantry, protos) can expect to fry under the attention of two plasma cannons with plenty of ammo. Two hits generate between 6 and 36 damage, average 21. Units with heat tracks face a different problem. It forces choices on how many malus they’re willing to chance next turn, as two hits reach the 15 point external heat cap on average.

Both models have active probes to counter concealment and find hidden units. Both are decent team players; one can exploit holes made by friends, the other shut down firepower from its target. I think it’s one more nail in the coffin that the clans still rely on duelling.

Downside? Both cost just slightly less than an introtech atlas.
« Last Edit: 22 June 2021, 02:44:14 by Greatclub »

Jellico

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #56 on: 05 June 2021, 21:08:41 »

 Mech on mech requires significant risk and luck to get your BV back. Your ideal turn with an I is getting behind someone (not hard,) stripping a torso rear with the laser, and getting multiple crits in the same spot with the machine guns. Or just vaporizing a couple infantry companies.

The arrays do 6 or 8 points of damage. 6 shots. 7 with the laser. Even at 50% accuracy you have a good chance of removing rear armor.

Once the armor is gone, switch off the arrays. 21 chances to his the exposed chassis and get a crit rather than 7.

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #57 on: 05 June 2021, 21:13:41 »
You arguably still want the array on, since arrays put all damage into the same location but are still treated as individual hits.  Getting a single roll of 3-4 hits into an exposed location and rolling for crit 3-4 times is arguably going to be more impactful than fishing for single crits with individual low damage.
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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #58 on: 06 June 2021, 04:04:43 »
Swayback vs Hunchback.

Ever since doing work on the Executioner I I have been interested in what it takes to carve up a rear arc.
First you need enough weapons to get a hit, say 50%. Then you need an armor stripping hit in a rear arc. So a bit over 50% chance of a 50% chance. It is why I prefer HMLs over HLLS.
Then to get the crits you need to hit that location again. Actually more than again because you need to beat than +8 for the crit.

So in the case of the MG Arrays that becomes interesting. A 4 missile cluster table averages 3 so you should get a crit or two. OTOH do you have enough Arrays to hit the exposed location? Half will miss, 8 locations to hit...

That is why I go with switching off the Arrays. A hit from an Array is more likely to be effective but it is less likely to hit the target.

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Re: MotW repost: Linebacker
« Reply #59 on: 06 June 2021, 13:56:37 »
A single crit chance is extremely unlikely to cripple a mech, though, while 3-4 can destroy it outright.  If you're already in a back arc, better to go for the significant impact because you may not get another opportunity from that direction.
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