When will we finally get another solid Battletech video game?

[Kerfuffin(925)]

Think Mechcommander 1, but add:
- Engineer vehicle to modify terrain
- DS/SC/VTOLs delivering cargo pods
- Engineer vehicle consuming cargo pods to place structures.

So mech commander meets Dawn of War?

[Middcore]

OP seems to be long gone but boy this is a weird thread to read. "1700's gentleman's warfare"... are we supposed to know what this term means, since it keeps getting used?  ??? Can't tell if the complaint is that HBS BT is turn-based instead of real-time or what. Meanwhile HBS had other people mad at them because the game wasn't a perfectly faithful replication of the tabletop, like MegaMek with better graphics.

[MoleMan]

It was funny that this thread was made pretty soon after 2 BT games that were the first in around 20 years or so :D

[Maingunnery]

So mech commander meets Dawn of War?

Sorry I have never heard of Dawn of War before, let alone played it.

[elf25s]

Think Mechcommander 1, but add:
- Engineer vehicle to modify terrain
- DS/SC/VTOLs delivering cargo pods
- Engineer vehicle consuming cargo pods to place structures.

mods i will say it mods they already exist

[Maingunnery]

mods i will say it mods they already exist

Any recommendations?

[Daryk]

*snip*
Meanwhile HBS had other people mad at them because the game wasn't a perfectly faithful replication of the tabletop, like MegaMek with better graphics.

I resemble that remark!  ::)

[elf25s]

Any recommendations?

had you looked on moddb or nexusmods?
for mechcommander 2 i loved wolfman x mods but they are rare and hard to find

[Maingunnery]

had you looked on moddb or nexusmods?
for mechcommander 2 i loved wolfman x mods but they are rare and hard to find

So the specific mods do not exist yet.

[elf25s]

So the specific mods do not exist yet.

look for them there are few dozen but if you do not look you dont find them

[Maingunnery]

look for them there are few dozen but if you do not look you dont find them

Have looked, nothing found that fits the description.

[elf25s]

Have looked, nothing found that fits the description.

if yo do not find it there look in places other than those 2 i had a huge library all teh links to fan oages that used to do mods but over the years i guess i earesed it
nut now nd then i still look around and find them
current best mod for battletech game is rogue tech for battletech

[Sir Chaos]

if yo do not find it there look in places other than those 2 i had a huge library all teh links to fan oages that used to do mods but over the years i guess i earesed it
nut now nd then i still look around and find them
current best mod for battletech game is rogue tech for battletech

I´m not sure if you´ve noticed it yet, but the internet is really freaking big, so telling someone to "look elsewhere" isn´t particularly helpful advice.

[mvp7]

OP seems to be long gone but boy this is a weird thread to read. "1700's gentleman's warfare"... are we supposed to know what this term means, since it keeps getting used?  ??? Can't tell if the complaint is that HBS BT is turn-based instead of real-time or what. Meanwhile HBS had other people mad at them because the game wasn't a perfectly faithful replication of the tabletop, like MegaMek with better graphics.

I think the issue some have with the implementation of turns in HBS game is that it combines movement, shooting and melee into a single phase. Compared to the "simultaneous" phases of tabletop, the HBS turns shift the balance towards big alphas that can remove an opponent before it can fire back. Multi-range weapon bracketing and multi-range weapon load-outs in general become less important as you effectively always get to decide where you move to take your shot regardless of initiative. The tabletop BT's simultaneous phase gameplay is arguably closer to real time combat than turn based gameplay.

I don't know what exactly the OP means by 1700's gentleman's warfare. There were never any practical, not to mention formal "turn based" characteristics in the warfare of that or any other era. It could refer to the pistol duels of late 1700's (which is not warfare though) where the dueling was extremely formal. Ironically it could be argued that BT boardgame is actually closer to dueling than the HBS game because both duelists always fire their weapons at the same time ;D (though I do get what the OP means).

---

HBS style "normal" turn based gameplay in video games is usually referred to as I-Go-You-Go (Chess, XCOM, Civilization etc). BT tabletop style simultaneous phase-based turns are very rare in digital form as they make the gameplay slower and harder to grasp, especially for multiplayer (MegaMek, some digitized niche wargames). A comparable approach that's more common for video games is We-Go where both sides plan their actions for a turn/period of time and the actions are then resolved simultaneously (Phantom Brigade, Combat Mission, Frozen Synapse etc). It's essentially "real time" gameplay cut into short segments and it's really what those phase-based wargames and BattleTech tabletop really aim to portray.

Personally I really like good We-Go and would love to see someone make a BattleTech game like that. The upcoming Phantom Brigade is closest thing to that that I know of (though it's big robots are much more Mecha than a Mech).

[elf25s]

I´m not sure if you´ve noticed it yet, but the internet is really freaking big, so telling someone to "look elsewhere" isn´t particularly helpful advice.

i know but if you use your google fu you should be able to find at least something in abut 30 min or so
i had a library of mod links and lost it and to date did feel no need to re build it. and i started that after cresents hawk.
btw try using other search engines than google you will be surprised how they are optimized and which ones do direct you to places tha google does not. take a few hours it will be worth it...while back found mechwarrior 3 depository of mods and full missions and it had sub section for mechwarrior 2
and no i dont have the link since i lost my library because one time i did not follow my own rule of backing up every thing and then backing up my back ups and backing up those too

[Daryk]

mvp7: I believe the 1700s reference was to Kriegsspiel.

elf25s: 30 minutes of Google-fu?  HOURS of other search engines??  ???

[Nightlord01]

i know but if you use your google fu you should be able to find at least something in abut 30 min or so
i had a library of mod links and lost it and to date did feel no need to re build it. and i started that after cresents hawk.
btw try using other search engines than google you will be surprised how they are optimized and which ones do direct you to places tha google does not. take a few hours it will be worth it...while back found mechwarrior 3 depository of mods and full missions and it had sub section for mechwarrior 2
and no i dont have the link since i lost my library because one time i did not follow my own rule of backing up every thing and then backing up my back ups and backing up those too

I had a large library of links for various Battletech and Games Mod sites, checked recently and pretty much none of them are still active. The only ones that are are the more generic sites like ModDB which literally anyone can find.

It's not so much that people's google-fu is weak, it's that a lot of the old fan sites have gone the way of the dodo and aren't coming back. Never forget that most of these games are more than fifteen years old now. Sites like Dropship Command etc are just gone now, so a lot of the old mods are now vapour-ware.

[Apocal]

OP seems to be long gone but boy this is a weird thread to read. "1700's gentleman's warfare"... are we supposed to know what this term means, since it keeps getting used?

mvp7: I believe the 1700s reference was to Kriegsspiel.

A reference to the initiative phase system where you take a full set of actions (movement+firing) instead of the TT BT way of sequential movement then simultaneous fire. He kept bringing it up in other threads, like this one:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/computerconsole-games/anyone-working-on-the-gentleman-s-warfare-fix/msg1516770/#msg1516770

As for the OP, I doubt we're gonna see another one (I thought HBSTech was pretty good) for a few years. Everyone with BT on the brain is either opting-out or already has something out there with no public plans for another development in this IP.

[SamyMraz]

I think the main issue some people have with the HBS Battletech game is that it's turn-based instead of real-time. Personally, I don't mind turn-based games at all, but I can see how some people might find them boring.

[Daryk]

It's what I explained upthread... Look up "Kriegspiel"...  :)

[JAMES_PRYDE]

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/computerconsole-games/mechcommander-legacies-a-discussion-of-ideas/

Mechcommander "3" "Like"

The mod / semi total conversion we are working on is aimed at combining the best elements of Mechcommander and Command and Conquer (Generals: Zero Hour)

https://www.moddb.com/mods/mechcommander-zerohour

[MoleMan]

I literally just finished a replay of Zero hour, so much fun! Can't wait to give that a go!

[Apocal]

It's been a while since the last one, right? As for the "1700's gentleman's warfare" thing, I have no idea what that means either. Maybe it's some inside joke that I'm not in on?

He is referring to HBStech using sequential rather than simultaneous firing resolution. First I move, then you move. It is silly, because BT turns include sequential movement (the way most people play), and misplaced, given that simultaneous firing resolution has equally clear realism "misses" tied up into its fundamental nature. Namely, the complete inability to counter so-called "suicide bombers" -- expendable units that exist entirely to deliver massive damage attacks -- except by way of metagaming... such as literal gentleman's agreements to simply not do that stuff to each other.

edit: From another thread

Simultaneous combat is the most advanced gameplay of any board game I have ever seen.  A ruleset created in 1985 with minimal changes over 35 years provides the most in depth, balanced, fun, and fair system of board game combat ever seen.  Modern games to this day try the old gentleman's warfare system over and over with different variants and all of them wind up with a chaotic mess or unbalanced gameplay where units die before even being able to shoot back

[Caedis Animus]

He is referring to HBStech using sequential rather than simultaneous firing resolution. First I move, then you move. It is silly, because BT turns include sequential movement (the way most people play), and misplaced, given that simultaneous firing resolution has equally clear realism "misses" tied up into its fundamental nature. Namely, the complete inability to counter so-called "suicide bombers" -- expendable units that exist entirely to deliver massive damage attacks -- except by way of metagaming... such as literal gentleman's agreements to simply not do that stuff to each other.

edit: From another thread

HBS Battletech's combat was honestly outdone by Phantom Brigade purely due to using a simultaneous turn system that allows for action interrupting. A combo of the two would be clunky but cool.

[NeasMacha]

The Battletech universe is ripe for more gaming adventures, and fans like us are eagerly waiting for another solid Battletech video game. It's been a bit of a wait, but good things often take time to come together. In the meantime, we can find solace in other epic games like CS2 that keep our gaming spirits high.

[garhkal]

What would a command and conquer like battle tech game look like i wonder.

[JAMES_PRYDE]

For what it's worth, I am slowly working on the "Mechcommander 3" front, a mod for Zero Hour: Generals, more details and further customization of the three factions (Clan, IS and ComStar, with their own feel and philosophy) RTS combining Mechcommander features with Command and Conquer, more realistic, not just base build and "tank spam"

https://www.moddb.com/mods/mechcommander-zerohour

A modification for "Command & Conquer Generals: Zero Hour" that hopes and aims to bring RTS Base Building & Command of Units, ranging from Infantry, Tanks, Aerospace, Battlemechs and more from the "Battletech Universe" while still retaining modern elements of Command & Conquer, to create a new warfare style for the Mod (as opposed to the traditional "Force Overwhelm" tactic aka Tank Spamming) This Mod / Semi-Total Conversion will see games where expanding your base is expensive, both in supplies and logistics, hence the need to plan, strategize and protect your Conquest Plans / Infrastructure whilst capturing key districts (Tech Elements) that will allow better map control to enhance your war engine and its endgame. In essence more realistic and akin to the readings of the Battletech Novels of Campaigns and the core inspiration for this mod, "Mechcommander"

[elf25s]

What would a command and conquer like battle tech game look like i wonder.

mod had been done for c7c generals sadly ai was not implemented as i recall

[JAMES_PRYDE]

mod had been done for c7c generals sadly ai was not implemented as i recall

Yeah I know "The Cappelean Solution", I tried contacting them, even got a few replies, but basically they said that all the major gfx and programing guys were long gone

I was advised in mod discord groups to just start a brand new project of my own. I am trying to create something different, a step up in the mod design, like I put in my description (see above) I have had some input from people here too, that I am going to incorporate. This project is a labor of love, and being a one man team, it will take time, but by Elizabeth Hazen it will get done

[Demiurge]

I can understand the OP's reservations about non-simultaneous turn resolution, but they are being short-sighted in assuming that just importing the CBT simultaneous turn resolution rules would fix everything.

CBT has the problem that it does not scale well beyond a certain point.  Even if you have a computer taking care of the housekeeping ala Megamek, you will quickly run into the problem that the initiative system is clunky for very large battles.  "Initiative sinks" are barely worth using in the typical small-scale games most people run.  But they become increasingly worthwhile as the scale goes up to the point where each player is juggling a very long list of units and moving them is just tiresome, but an enormous amount of the strategy is in gaming the movement and firing order rules.

CBT isn't the worst game in this regard; for an example of a wargame that completely falls apart with large-scale battles look at second edition WH40K, where the melee rules are written so ambiguously that there is actually not a correct way to resolve very large scrums because the rules writers literally just didn't think of that.