FASA Games, a name from the past

[GreenDragon]

Next Gen was largely a matter of writing the two books as S1 was airing.  They had to fake it a lot.
Though, worth noting, several FASA created graphics flash past on computer screens in S1 episodes.

[Neko_Bijin]

Yeah, who owns Renegade Legion nowadays?  If it's FASA, shouldn't we let them know there's interest in reviving it?

[Lorcan Nagle]

Apparently Topps have Renegade Legion.

[worktroll]

Apparently Topps have Renegade Legion.

Interesting - not what I understood to be the case. Where did you hear that, thanks?

[Dread Moores]

Apparently Topps have Renegade Legion.

Not to say this means it is in any way indisputable fact, but wiki mentions that the license went to Nightshift Games and then reverted back to FASA.

[Lorcan Nagle]

Interesting - not what I understood to be the case. Where did you hear that, thanks?

Someone from here looked it up and posted about it in the last Renegade Legion thread - Kit, I think.

EDIT to add:
Here's the post in question: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,6571.msg156206.html#msg156206

[Failure16]

Regarding Topps as the Renegade Legion IP owner, here is the original source for the above-provided link (sixth post from the bottom of the first page):  http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=230068&page=1

[Wrangler]

Well, thats good and bad news. RL is less likely to be revived by CGL only because of focus on trying keep Battletech and Shadow Run going.  I'd love to see it revived by CGL...

[Failure16]

The problem with that is that then RL would fall into the same set of difficulties that it did under FASA's aegis in the 90s...it would be a direct competitor to the flagship line (or one of them, since Shadowrun and BattleTech, I presume, hold equal footing in the company's mind).

I think it would be better if a different company took a swing at it for that reason.  There is still a lot of love for the system even today (and considering how long the game lasted, that is quite an achievement).  The problem is is that there was a strange dichotomy in the system itself:  it was a game that wanted to play company-level or better but the mechanics were focused very squarely on individual tanks and infantry squads; it was almost a skirmish game that wanted to play at two levels higher.  The paradigm of table-top wargames has shifted squarely away from record sheets and tracking individual systems towards one of less granularity.  I feel that, despite nostalgia, RL (particularly Centurion and Interceptor) would have an uphill battle for *new* players because of this.

BattleTech continues to succeed because it has a long history and steady game system; over 25 years at this point.  Renegade Legion has about that many years of memories.

[Grim_Reaper]

Star Trek RPG was fun and easy, i didn't get play with the Tactical Simulator, so i don't know if worthwhile to revive.  I wasn't crazy about what Old FASA did with their ST Next Generation.   

never got to play the RPG but have run games of the Tactical Simulator, including the Koabashi Maru (sp?) scenario At the 'Command and Control' Level where everyone controls a part of the ship (basically  players acting out as the bridge crew while the GM runs the opposition).

Frankly they never got to do much with TNG as i believe Paramount pulled all licensing at around that time. only real mistake that came out of it was the assumption that Transwarp was successful (and invention of Multiwarp speeds) where in canon it was a failure.

[bytor]

never got to play the RPG but have run games of the Tactical Simulator, including the Koabashi Maru (sp?) scenario At the 'Command and Control' Level where everyone controls a part of the ship (basically  players acting out as the bridge crew while the GM runs the opposition).

Frankly they never got to do much with TNG as i believe Paramount pulled all licensing at around that time. only real mistake that came out of it was the assumption that Transwarp was successful (and invention of Multiwarp speeds) where in canon it was a failure.

The RPG was fun, I thought it was a good system, and FASA did a great job on the fluff, despite the fact that none of it was made canon.  The Tactical Simulator was a blast as well, I've been meaning to dig it out and have a go but I don't know many people that would be interested.  I used to have quite a few of the starship minis as well, but they got lost in a move at some point. 

[GreenDragon]

only real mistake that came out of it was the assumption that Transwarp was successful (and invention of Multiwarp speeds) where in canon it was a failure.

That was done to explain why Kirk's Enterprise achieved Warp 13 at least once (By Any Other Name), and Warp 10 regularly (it was Emergency speed for the refit class in FASA's books and Mr. Scott's Guide.  But Picard's ship couldn't hit Warp 10.  Clearly the definition of Warp Speed had to change between Star Trek IV:TVH and Encounter At Farpoint (Fall of 2222 and early 2308 by the pre-Okudachron reckoning).

[Grim_Reaper]

IIRC it was a new warp scale to accomodate the newer warp speeds for TNG for the game
Origional warp speed followed the canon of Velocity = Warp Factor^3 X Speed of Light
TNG warp speed for the game was Velocity = Warp Factor^5 X Speed of Light

so that Warp 13 in Kirks time would be Warp 6.66 in Picards Time within the game

[Charlie Tango]

IIRC it was a new warp scale to accomodate the newer warp speeds for TNG for the game
Origional warp speed followed the canon of Velocity = Warp Factor^3 X Speed of Light
TNG warp speed for the game was Velocity = Warp Factor^5 X Speed of Light

so that Warp 13 in Kirks time would be Warp 6.66 in Picards Time within the game

It's explained, IIRC, in the Next Generation Tech Manual.


I never played the Star Trek RPG side, but we played the heck out of the Combat Simulator back in college.  The Reliant with the fore-and-aft torpedo launchers rocked...

[Daemion]

Wow. I had always been curious about the Earthdawn setting when I first saw it in a Fasa add mag in the BT boxed set I picked up. Never managed to find any books to get a feel for it. Glad to see it's still around. I'll have to check it out.

Considering the wrapping up of the fantasy and potentially scifi realms into one timeline by the new FASA, I wonder if or where BT and Renegade Legion would fit in. I'm almost glad they aren't part of that, as I'd hate to see them both get that kind of 'prehistory'.

Still, it would back my theory that at some point RL and BT were to have some sort of cross-over even if in spoof.

But, I too would love to see Renegade Legion back in print, if anything. I want some minis. :D

[Lorcan Nagle]

But, I too would love to see Renegade Legion back in print, if anything. I want some minis. :D

It'd be handy if someone was producing the minis now, wouldn't it?

[Failure16]

Yes, go directly to C-inC and buy anything you can from them.  You will not find a better micro-armor miniatures company in the US.  Top notch folks, quality, and service.

[WarChicken]

I would also love to see RL, but it would end up competing with btech. However if it did a slightly different scale maybe a cohort or manus scale with simplified rules (eg. epic or space marine) maybe that work out. Or even expanding on the Prefect ruleset making a county level wargame.

[Neko_Bijin]

I'm not sure I understand this "competes with x" argument.  Nabisco makes all sorts of barely distinguishable products, and the same corporation owns Pizza Hut as Taco Bell.  I can understand a "the market is already crowded" argument, but that's not the same thing.

[3rdCrucisLancers]

I should think it's more a case of Catalyst having a highly finite amount of productive bandwidth.

[Charlie Tango]

And if the IP is owned by someone else, Catalyst would have to license it from them, and that owner could pull that license.  I think Catalyst may be focused (wisely) for a while on creating their own games so as to have an income stream that is not dependent on licensed products.

[Neko_Bijin]

I'm confused.  I thought we were mooting FASA doing the work here.  But uselessly, it seems, since they're already committed to other products.

[Failure16]

I'm not sure I understand this "competes with x" argument.  Nabisco makes all sorts of barely distinguishable products, and the same corporation owns Pizza Hut as Taco Bell.  I can understand a "the market is already crowded" argument, but that's not the same thing.

Well then, you could always have an ironic chat with the new FASA about the reasons why the old FASA dropped Renegade Legion for that very reason.  I must admit that 3CL , and CT both have very good points, but tabletop wargames featuring gravtanks or walking tanks are very close as far as our particular niche goes.  Indeed, FASA games usually had wonderful history and fluff-text that drove their games and gamers' procurement of them.  To have two games which were generally indistinguishable (from an outsider's stance) other than 'tabletop wargames played on hex-maps using record sheets' will tend to dilute the market and draw off buyers from one system or the other...but the company is producing both and not doubling their profits.

In short, you will have players looking at two games; they might decide to buy one and not the other if they are not die-hard company-fans.  The company is still producing both though, so they are effectively losing money (though, potentially, one game or the other *might* draw in players for that particular sub-genre but the company is still producing both games regardless).

[Neko_Bijin]

They won't be looking at two games, but a dozen, including a giant that dwarfs all the others.  Yet Pepsi still makes bottled ice teas.

Also, you elide over something important with "gravtanks or walking tanks."  RL isn't a Mecha game.

[Failure16]

PepsiCo and CGL are not the same by a long shot.  One is a multinational and the other is not.  To add to that, the comparison between a 'pepsi' and another softdrink (particularly an iced tea) sold by PepsiCo is a strawman:  the people that want an iced tea may not want a soda.

But the people who want to play a tabletop wargame may not have such finely discriminating tastes.  The Renegade Legion and Battletech universes offered all of the same choices:  main ground and space combat boardgames, role-playing game, large-scale combat board game.  The only choices--from a non-fluff perspective--were between tanks:  walking or anti-grav.  Both games used similar rules-mechanics to include fairly complicated record sheets, THMs, and layout.

[Neko_Bijin]

Then again, they might.

[Failure16]

And they might not.  History has shown us, literally in this exact case, that the two games were competitors to each other. 

[MadCapellan]

To the defense of Renegade Legion and Battletech, I have and will buy both.....

[3rdCrucisLancers]

We really need to play that again.

[Bosefius]

 [copper] Please, let's everyone take a deep breath and relax a little. We all have different opinions, getting heated won't settle anything. Thank you  [copper]