Clan Jade Falcon III: Admittedly, We May Have Falconed a Little Too Hard

[Jellico]

it's fair to say that Clan Jade Falcon is nothing more than Clan Wolf's slightly less competent handicapped sidekick.

Ah. But you forget. Clan Jade Falcon has been given a POV Inner Sphere novel character in a ranking position. The only way a Clan can ever be competent is to have a Spheroid pulling the strings.

[jimdigris]

The only factions who ram with warships are the Federated Suns and the Republic of the Sphere.  Everyone else has relied on their guns.
And warships are useful as orbital artillery systems and in blocking reinforcements to worlds that are being invaded.

[Orwell84]

That being said do the Jade Falcons still have an occupation zone?

Theoretically, yes. In practice? It's a safe bet that OZ is going to shrink very soon. Tamar Rising will be out in a couple of months so we'll find out exactly how much shrinkage soon enough.

Ah. But you forget. Clan Jade Falcon has been given a POV Inner Sphere novel character in a ranking position. The only way a Clan can ever be competent is to have a Spheroid pulling the strings.

Marthe Pryde seemed to do pretty well with the hand she was dealt without any Spheroids pulling her strings. For that matter so did Vlad Ward, and Ulric Kerensky before him - he was pulling Phelan's strings during Revival, not the other way around, and dealt with Focht on an equal footing not a supplicant.

[Sartris]

1991 was a long time ago

[CJC070]

We have to wait for Tamar Rising to see if the Jade Falcons have anything in the OZ.  Considering it was stripped clean of everything (and everyone) Malvina deemed useful it would be interesting to see who comes out on top.

[Dahmin_Toran]

I do think the Falcons took less with them than the Wolves to Terra. They left more Second-Line, Provisional Garrison Clusters, and Solahma troops back in the OZ.

[Kerfuffin(925)]

I do think the Falcons took less with them than the Wolves to Terra. They left more Second-Line, Provisional Garrison Clusters, and Solahma troops back in the OZ.

The book (HotW) made it seem like they left almost nothing. They just came in piecemeal due to Malvinas haste.

[Ruger]

The book (HotW) made it seem like they left almost nothing. They just came in piecemeal due to Malvinas haste.

That was my impression as well. Basically Malvina took everything but the old broken down kitchen sinks, and only left what she deemed completely useless, even for cannon fodder.

Ruger

[Cannonshop]

The only factions who ram with warships are the Federated Suns and the Republic of the Sphere.  Everyone else has relied on their guns.
And warships are useful as orbital artillery systems and in blocking reinforcements to worlds that are being invaded.

Malvina. Rammed. a. PLANET.

for the net gain of one lost warship and the destruction of a city.

Lost warship being the one she rammed into the planet. 


which in a way is a twofer- orbital bombardment PLUS ramming.  You might say it's wht you get when you have Warriors who sometimes go into space,instead of spacers who sometimes go to war, or just accept that in the strategy manuals everyone is using, Ramming is a major featured part of the curriculum in the same way that human wave charges with bayonets affixed were an accepted tactic in 1914-18, despite the very real and apparent costs-armies did it because they didn't know what else to do.

which in turn has a certain shock value the first couple of times you do it, and with the practice being widespread, a certain accepted level of 'success' necessary to keep the theory of doing that in favour and within acceptance.  Remember that 'Glory' is what others see you doing, and the Clans are all about "Honour and Glory".

even when it makes no practical sense.

[wantec]

Well, as I said, I am picking up the lore as I go right now, but the whole Mongol affair felt a betrayal of the spirit of the CJF for an old timer like me.... that being said, I'd rather not go the Comstar way tbh....

I thought the novel Children of Kerensky helped explain why Malvina was permitted to develop such violent tendencies which led her down her path. https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/collections/battletech/products/battletech-children-of-kerensky

On a side note, if you had to start picking up TRO and recogs, which ones would you start from?

My answer would be all of them, since I just enjoy that aspect of the universe so much. But for you it depends, do you just want info on the new Falcon units? If so, then check out Rec Guides 3 (Hierofalcon), 11 (Ion Sparrow aka "Butcherbird"), and 22 when it's release for the Jade Phoenix.

If you want Rec Guide updates to older Falcon favorites there's Rec Guides 1 (Hellbringer), 3 (Summoner), 11 (Kit Fox), 14 (Nova), 15 (Fire Falcon & Black Lanner), and 16 (Turkina).

If you want new units from the Jihad & Dark Age eras there's TRO3075 (Jupiter), TRO 3085 (Shadow Cat II, Flamberge, Onager), TRO 3145 (Eyrie, Gyrfalcon, Shrike), TRO 3150 (Hel aka Loki mk II, Grand Summoner aka Thor II, Jade Hawk).

And of course an assortment of BA, vehicles, & aero stuff in each of the TROs

[Grahad]

I thought the novel Children of Kerensky helped explain why Malvina was permitted to develop such violent tendencies which led her down her path. https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/collections/battletech/products/battletech-children-of-kerensky
My answer would be all of them, since I just enjoy that aspect of the universe so much. But for you it depends, do you just want info on the new Falcon units? If so, then check out Rec Guides 3 (Hierofalcon), 11 (Ion Sparrow aka "Butcherbird"), and 22 when it's release for the Jade Phoenix.

If you want Rec Guide updates to older Falcon favorites there's Rec Guides 1 (Hellbringer), 3 (Summoner), 11 (Kit Fox), 14 (Nova), 15 (Fire Falcon & Black Lanner), and 16 (Turkina).

If you want new units from the Jihad & Dark Age eras there's TRO3075 (Jupiter), TRO 3085 (Shadow Cat II, Flamberge, Onager), TRO 3145 (Eyrie, Gyrfalcon, Shrike), TRO 3150 (Hel aka Loki mk II, Grand Summoner aka Thor II, Jade Hawk).

And of course an assortment of BA, vehicles, & aero stuff in each of the TROs

Thanks, good advice here... I think I'll stack all rec guides for completion and then pick a few TRO to begin with.
About Melvina, as I said I am still picking up the lore, then again whoever though that good things could have come from nurturing a nutcase needs to be reassigned as live ammo for a LRM imho.

[MarauderD]

Speaking of naval actions.  I didn't see an accounting anywhere--how strong is the Falcon fleet post ilClan?  Do they get to keep their fleet as the honor guard escorts to the ilClan, or is it isorla?  Because IIRC, they had a very strong fleet with several Aegis class cruisers.

Just Curious!

[Jaim Magnus]

Speaking of naval actions.  I didn't see an accounting anywhere--how strong is the Falcon fleet post ilClan?  Do they get to keep their fleet as the honor guard escorts to the ilClan, or is it isorla?  Because IIRC, they had a very strong fleet with several Aegis class cruisers.

Just Curious!

Honestly, I could see them trading ships to the Sea Foxes, or maybe the Ravens, in exchange for much needed material, new 'Mechs, maybe even warriors... after a suitable trade trial of course ;)

[Kojak]

Malvina. Rammed. a. PLANET.

for the net gain of one lost warship and the destruction of a city.

Lost warship being the one she rammed into the planet. 

The WarShip that was already doomed, you mean? Destroying the city that her entire opposition was seated in at the climax of a civil war?

She lost a WarShip and she gained the Jade Falcon Clan. Let's not do that thing where we pretend characters are acting without any logic at all, just to grind an axe.

[Bren]

Finally got time to go through ilClan. At the risk of sounding melodramatic I can't really think of what to say just yet.

The previous thread lasted almost seven years. I wonder where we'll be when this thread closes.

I initially mistyped melotramatic and had a good laugh at the (freudian?) typo.

[Dahmin_Toran]

That was my impression as well. Basically Malvina took everything but the old broken down kitchen sinks, and only left what she deemed completely useless, even for cannon fodder.

Ruger

I think the Jade Falcons were a more traditional Clan and would not bring Second-Line troops to such an important battle.

[Kerfuffin(925)]

I think the Jade Falcons were a more traditional Clan and would not bring Second-Line troops to such an important battle.

at one point they were traditional, they now crash ships into planets when they get mad.

[CJC070]

Most of the “cannon fodder” was used getting to Terra.  Some might have been left behind either in the OZ or on the battlefield but I suspect they will last as long as the average mercenary group in the initial Clan invasion.

[worktroll]

at one point they were traditional, they now crash ships into planets when they get mad.

Hey, it was once, and the ship was broken before we did it!

[rebs]

All true. 

But it was a Nightlord class.  Just ask the Ravens how many man-hours that was. 

[worktroll]

"If you can't afford to lose it, you can't afford to use it"- we should all take some pointers from Liz Ngo  :thumbsup:

[Kerfuffin(925)]

If you go ree harder than the ghost bears, well...

[Cannonshop]

All true. 

But it was a Nightlord class.  Just ask the Ravens how many man-hours that was.

Or how many usable systems, pieces of expensive equipment, or the raw material value is-especially when you don't have a robust Naval Construction infrastructure and you need trade-bait to sell the Sea Foxes for more weapons.  Scrap value alone is enough to equip a few extra clusters or even a galaxy if you're in an expansion mood, and this wasn't even a stripped hulk.

[worktroll]

You know, you all can keep ragging on about one incident involving the fiction's most over the top villain, or you can go back to ragging on the Feddies who have a track record as long as your arm.

[MarauderD]

You know, you all can keep ragging on about one incident involving the fiction's most over the top villain, or you can go back to ragging on the Feddies who have a track record as long as your arm.

Who us?  We don't even have a navy.  Just some dropships.  Nothing to see here!  *whistles while walking away*

[rebs]

It is the Fedrat go-to maneuver. 

"RAMMING SPEED!!"

[Cannonshop]

You know, you all can keep ragging on about one incident involving the fiction's most over the top villain, or you can go back to ragging on the Feddies who have a track record as long as your arm.

It's not just the FedRats though.  From Kerensky onward, it's clearly in the books as a 'go-to' move, we only get to rag on the feddies because they got enough of the things to start doing it again, and enough ink so we could watch them doing it again.  not just that, but AFTER the Feddies fed their navy to the sheep-god...well...  'ilClan' happened AFTER malvina.

Clearly then, Warships are just battering rams with some transportation uses and occasional O.B. usage, and it's wide-spread enough that it's really quite reasonable to presume the move is standard across ALL navies as a go-to tactic, it's just that Malvina cleverly combined it with orbital bombardment rather than merely doing one or the other.

one might even call it 'innovative', which is something you RARELY say about Jade Falcons.

[rebs]

But we have a case where a meglomaniac nihilist in a YA fictional universe who happens to have the power to do so crashed an already failing vessel into a city as an abject lesson in opposing her. 

It was the only incident like it in Falcon history.

By contrast, how many Taurians likely died as suicide crews during the Reunification Wars?  Or the Fedrats, as said. 

[worktroll]

one might even call it 'innovative', which is something you RARELY say about Jade Falcons.

And yes, that's how - I think - the author portrayed that incident; that there was no depth Malvina would not plumb to terrorise her potential future opponents by visiting destruction on her current opponents. That's the Mongol doctrine taken to an extreme.

The FedRat Ramming Lust? I suspect it sounded cool at the time, but like most joke tactics it's faded fast. First time you're a wit, second time you're a half wit, and it decays exponentially from there. And let's just agree not to discuss the naval 'brilliance' in HotW. IMHO, lazy writing.

[Orwell84]

But we have a case where a meglomaniac nihilist in a YA fictional universe who happens to have the power to do so crashed an already failing vessel into a city as an abject lesson in opposing her. 

It was the only incident like it in Falcon history.

And yes, that's how - I think - the author portrayed that incident; that there was no depth Malvina would not plumb to terrorise her potential future opponents by visiting destruction on her current opponents. That's the Mongol doctrine taken to an extreme.

That's how I read it as well. Malvina did it once, to make a statement and wipe out most of her opposition in one swoop, potentially avoiding a long civil war rending that would have weakened the Clan more. And it's not like the Falcon navy had no other WarShips to spare.