AC/2 Rifleman

[Daryk]

I can't remember if anyone has posted one before, and the new Kickstarter update got me thinking about Riflemen again.  It won't be inflicting any threshold crits, but there will be plenty of lawn dart checks with this thing, and the extra armor helps:

Code: [Select]

Rifleman AC/2 RFL-3C2

Mass: 60 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-E-D-A
Production Year: 3025
Dry Cost: 4,644,800 C-Bills
Total Cost: 4,645,800 C-Bills
Battle Value: 994

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 240 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    2  Medium Lasers
    4  Autocannon/2s
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      99 points                6.00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                240                      11.50
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 CT
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 152                  9.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            8         
                                        Center Torso     20           20       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  6         
                                           L/R Torso     14           20       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  6         
                                             L/R Arm     10           13       
                                             L/R Leg     14           20       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Autocannon/2s                              RA        2         2        12.00
2 Autocannon/2s                              LA        2         2        12.00
Medium Laser                                 RT        3         1         1.00
Medium Laser                                 LT        3         1         1.00
@AC/2 (45)                                   CT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 43

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 10
4          2       2       1       0      3     0   Structure:  5
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

[Sharpnel]

Simply not enough ammo for its role, a walking AAA battery. Here's my take:

Code: [Select]

Rifleman RFL-3NAC

Mass: 60 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Introductory
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-E-D-D
Production Year: 2770
Dry Cost: 4,628,800 C-Bills
Total Cost: 4,630,800 C-Bills
Battle Value: 933

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 240 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    2 Magna Mk. II Medium Lasers
    4  Autocannon/2s
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      99 points                6.00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                240                      11.50
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 LL
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 136                  8.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     20           19       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  6         
                                           L/R Torso     14           14       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  4         
                                             L/R Arm     10           15       
                                             L/R Leg     14           18       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Laser                                 RT        3         1         1.00
Medium Laser                                 LT        3         1         1.00
2 Autocannon/2s                              RA        2         2        12.00
2 Autocannon/2s                              LA        2         2        12.00
@AC/2 (45)                                   RT        -         1         1.00
@AC/2 (45)                                   LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 42

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 9
4          2       2       1       0      3     0   Structure:  5
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA



[Daryk]

Not enough to inflict lawn dart checks?  ???

[Tinyozora]

So a walking Partisan.  Barely a minutes worth of ammo though.  Would need a direct feed into a J27 to be worthwhile for AA cover. 

[Luciora]

I'd drop the lasers for ammo and armor, for a dedicated AA unit.  I would have backstoried the quad AC/2 as the original design, with the heavier AC/laser combo as a stopgap measure to make the mech more effective at duties other than AA. 

That's just my line of thought though, provided what we know today about its history.

[Daryk]

Almost two minutes at full rate (11 turns).  The fast reload quirk could work to mitigate that.

I did contemplate a pair of Small Lasers to get another ton to work with, but even one Medium makes more sense, I think...

Not a bad idea of it being an original variant...  :thumbsup:

[Maingunnery]

It would make a good training variant.

[deathshadow]

I'd definitely put that extra ton of ammo in there, even if it means dropping the armor. It would STILL be better armored than the stock -3N.

Otherwise, as a Rifleman fan (after all I gave the world the RFL-9T) I like the concept. Clear upgrade path too - heavy FF, DHS, swap the mediums for the ER flavor, and go with -2x. Or stick with the standard mediums and use DHS to make it a "BV sleeper"

But what do I know, I like the Men-Shen.

[Daryk]

I'd rather drop one of the Mediums than cut the armor down.  I had originally considered going with 2 Smalls, but I settled on the 2 Mediums being closer to stock.

[Wolf72]

Almost two minutes at full rate (11 turns).  The fast reload quirk could work to mitigate that.

I did contemplate a pair of Small Lasers to get another ton to work with, but even one Medium makes more sense, I think...

Not a bad idea of it being an original variant...  :thumbsup:

i have one of those ... 4 ac's, 2 sl, 2 tons ammo, 9.5t armor.  I like the range.

ironically did a clan lbx version -- 2 5's, 2 2's and 995 bv  (by hand) ... my idea of a clan refit since original only has SHS.

[glitterboy2098]

why not drop the engine to a 3/5, and upgrade to AC5's? as an AA support platform it doesn't really need to be as fast as the front line heavies, and 3/5 would still let it keep up with most of the assault machines.

[Wolf72]

why not drop the engine to a 3/5, and upgrade to AC5's? as an AA support platform it doesn't really need to be as fast as the front line heavies, and 3/5 would still let it keep up with most of the assault machines.

with a 180 standard engine (going all level 1/introtech) ... 4 AC-5's with only 2 tons ammo leaves only 6 tons remaining for armor.  I think that might lead to a "quick, hit the rifleman" as an easy mission kill.

at 3/5 with AC-2's ... that's +8 tons to work with.  Say, 4 for armor, 2 more ammo (a lot, but good for fluff or alt ammo in later eras), and 2 ML's ... or 2 JJ's for extra mobility, maybe c.a.s.e. (higher tech level).

can split the difference with AC's, but armor will always suffer -- you know, be a legit Rifleman!

[TigerShark]

Here's what I have been using on Dominion for a few years. Simple swap of the AC/5s and LL for (4) AC/2s and 3 tons of ammo. At only 873 BV, this thing is a sniper beast. 1,222 BV for a 2-gunnery pilot that'll snipe all day long at ranges few could match in its day. After 22 games (which is a small sample size, admittedly), it had a 54% win percentage when fielded, with 9 times destroyed (41%). Compare that to the RFL-3N, with a 41% win percentage and was destroyed 52% of the time (this is in 92 games).

RIFLEMAN RFL-3A

Code: [Select]

Rifleman RFL-3A
Mass: 60 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-D-D-A
Production Year: 2770
Cost: 4,612,800 C-Bills
Battle Value: 873

Chassis: Kallon Type IV Standard
Power Plant: Pitban 240 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Kallon Royalstar Standard Armor
Armament:
    2 Magna Mk. II Medium Lasers
    4 Armstrong Autocannon/2s
Manufacturer: Kallon Industries
    Primary Factory: Nanking (Kallon)
Communications System: Garret T11-A
Targeting and Tracking System: Garret D2j

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      99 points                6.00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                240                      11.50
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 LL
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 120                  7.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            6         
                                        Center Torso     20           22       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  4         
                                           L/R Torso     14           15       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  2         
                                             L/R Arm     10           15       
                                             L/R Leg     14           12       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Laser                                 RT        3         1         1.00
Medium Laser                                 LT        3         1         1.00
2 Autocannon/2s                              RA        2         2        12.00
2 Autocannon/2s                              LA        2         2        12.00
@AC/2 (45)                                   CT        -         1         1.00
@AC/2 (45)                                   RT        -         1         1.00
@AC/2 (45)                                   LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 41

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      4    Points: 9
4          2       2       1       0      3     0   Structure:  5
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

[Wolf72]

how often did you get to use your ML's?

[TigerShark]

how often did you get to use your ML's?

I wasn't in all of the games, but I don't think the MLs came into play very often. I would, usually, only fire one ML + the four AC/2s, even when someone was in close range. The "plinking" seemed more valuable to me than the single, 5-point cluster of damage.

[Wolf72]

I wasn't in all of the games, but I don't think the MLs came into play very often. I would, usually, only fire one ML + the four AC/2s, even when someone was in close range. The "plinking" seemed more valuable to me than the single, 5-point cluster of damage.

Was thinking of dropping a ML, but that is an awful tempt of fate there ... On paper may be sound, but (fake)-real life will come knocking soon enough.  2nd ML would be more of a fighting chance than one.

[Daryk]

Tigershark's stats would definitely lead me to drop one Medium Laser for a second ton of ammo.

[Firesprocket]

2nd ML would be more of a fighting chance than one.

When you are at the point that you have to worry about 2 medium lasers giving you 'fighting chance' something has already gone horribly wrong for the Rifleman to put it in that situation in the first place.

[Wolf72]

When you are at the point that you have to worry about 2 medium lasers giving you 'fighting chance' something has already gone horribly wrong for the Rifleman to put it in that situation in the first place.

That'd be situation normal, right?  :thumbsup:

[Daryk]

Heh, yeah... I have a friend who once survived an ammo explosion in a stock Rifleman (under the normal rules... he was very low on ammo by that point... I'm not sure he let go of the triggers on the AC/5s until after that).  Let's just say that made him pretty fearless in general...  ^-^

[packhntr]

The problem with having ANY medium lasers on dedicated fire support /AA platforms is that the mechwarrior tends to get stupid and think they can take care of themselves when they are being attacked by infantry or other anti-mech equipment (IE OTHER Mechs) and they CAN'T.  All of the well designed support/AA platforms only utilize small lasers or NOTHING.  Sounds weird, but keeps the mech and pilot alive as it removed any temptation of stupidity.

That said, drop the mediums, increase ammo.

[TigerShark]

Tigershark's stats would definitely lead me to drop one Medium Laser for a second ton of ammo.

By removing the AC/5s and Large Lasers, you have 27 tons free. There's space for (3) tons of ammo already. 16 (2 x AC/5) + 10 (2 x Large Laser) + 1 (AC/5 ammo).

[Ruger]

I like the idea of quad AC/2’s replacing the AC/5’s and large lasers, with a ton of ammo for each pair, and the last ton used for a pair of small lasers in the CT.

There’s potential to drop the meds for more ammo, but then the side torsos become ammo bombs.

Or drop the engine to a 180 for 3/5 movement, give it three jump jets (legs and CT), the 4 AC/2’s, each with a ton of ammo in there side torsos with the meds, and use the last 1.5 tons for a trio of small lasers, with one in each side torso, and one in the CT.

Yeah, that sounds like fun.

Ruger

[TigerShark]

Or drop the engine to a 180 for 3/5 movement, give it three jump jets (legs and CT), the 4 AC/2’s, each with a ton of ammo in there side torsos with the meds, and use the last 1.5 tons for a trio of small lasers, with one in each side torso, and one in the CT.

I've always felt that jumping was very useful to something that provides fire support. Especially the Rifleman. Unfortunately, BV2 punishes units with JJ, over-valuing them on the field. But beyond that, the concept is good, IMO.

[Daryk]

I upped the armor a bit to what I felt was the minimum necessary... that's why I don't have the room for a third ton of ammo.

[Wolf72]

The problem with having ANY medium lasers on dedicated fire support /AA platforms is that the mechwarrior tends to get stupid ...

situation normal again!  ;D

So I dropped the engine to 180, cool-cool.  3 JJ's, and went with c.a.s.e. (higher tech than I was looking, but it needed it!) in side torsos over SL's (or any lasers).  I think a slow light or medium mech with short/mid/AI style firepower might be a good body guard.  Actually a Flea with MG's might be good.

[Daryk]

Here's the version with a Medium swapped for another ton of ammo.  I moved the HS out to the Left Torso, and put the other ton of ammo next to the other in the CT...

Code: [Select]

Rifleman AC/2 RFL-3C2

Mass: 60 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Introductory
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-E-D-A
Production Year: 2750
Dry Cost: 4,580,800 C-Bills
Total Cost: 4,582,800 C-Bills
Battle Value: 930

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 240 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
    Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  Medium Laser
    4  Autocannon/2s
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      99 points                6.00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                240                      11.50
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6
    Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA    R: SH+UA
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 152                  9.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            8         
                                        Center Torso     20           20       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  6         
                                           L/R Torso     14           20       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  6         
                                             L/R Arm     10           13       
                                             L/R Leg     14           20       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Autocannon/2s                              RA        2         2        12.00
2 Autocannon/2s                              LA        2         2        12.00
Medium Laser                                 RT        3         1         1.00
@AC/2 (90)                                   CT        -         2         2.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 43

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 9
4          2       2       1       0      3     0   Structure:  5
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

[Atarlost]

The problem with dropping the speed is that an AA mech that can't keep up with the army can't do its job.  If your main battle line is moving cross country at 60 kph (Enforcers, Centurions, Panthers, Vindicators, Catapults, Zeuses, Thunderbolts, Warhammers, Archers, etc.) you need your AA mech to also be able to do 60 KPH.  Force speed doesn't matter a great deal if you do set piece battles to the death, but it would matter a great deal in-universe. 

[Maingunnery]

The problem with dropping the speed is that an AA mech that can't keep up with the army can't do its job.  If your main battle line is moving cross country at 60 kph (Enforcers, Centurions, Panthers, Vindicators, Catapults, Zeuses, Thunderbolts, Warhammers, Archers, etc.) you need your AA mech to also be able to do 60 KPH.  Force speed doesn't matter a great deal if you do set piece battles to the death, but it would matter a great deal in-universe.

However it (3/5/3) would not be bad for a training mech.

[TigerShark]

The problem with dropping the speed is that an AA mech that can't keep up with the army can't do its job.  If your main battle line is moving cross country at 60 kph (Enforcers, Centurions, Panthers, Vindicators, Catapults, Zeuses, Thunderbolts, Warhammers, Archers, etc.) you need your AA mech to also be able to do 60 KPH.  Force speed doesn't matter a great deal if you do set piece battles to the death, but it would matter a great deal in-universe.

Keeping up doesn't mean just running in a straight line. Mountainous and urban terrain is VERY common. If it can't rapidly scale terrain, it can also fall behind. 3/5/3 would be much better in a jungle/forest/mountain than 4/6/0.