Author Topic: Paint Schemes and Perfidy  (Read 3525 times)

Nightsong

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Paint Schemes and Perfidy
« on: 09 November 2019, 05:46:21 »
Was rereading some books the other day and I want to say one of the Field Manuals mentioned a Mechwarrior who painted the front of his ‘mech in the opfor colors while keeping his back painted in his unit scheme. While wikiwalking about false flag operations, I had to wonder if the Ares Conventions or any current military rules have any rulings against perfidy.

For the unaware, perfidy is the act of attacking while under the colors of the enemy or a neutral nation. Wearing false colors is ok, but according to the Geneva Conventions, the moment you fire it’s a war crime. Are there any rules in the succession wars or onward outlawing perfidy? Were there even any in the Ares Conventions? If so I can think of some units in deep doodoo...

AlphaMirage

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Re: Paint Schemes and Perfidy
« Reply #1 on: 09 November 2019, 07:19:14 »
The Area Convention is really just a suggestion to most forces in the Inner Sphere.  Unusually it's closest adherents were Mercs because it provided cover if they went before the MRBC or it's predecessor for a contract dispute.  There is no Hague type Interstellar court even in the 2SL.

That said though it certainly sounds like a violation of Appendix A of the accords.  Visual ID is always backed up by some kind of IFF beacon so it's effectiveness is questionable

Caedis Animus

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Re: Paint Schemes and Perfidy
« Reply #2 on: 09 November 2019, 07:57:45 »
That said though it certainly sounds like a violation of Appendix A of the accords.  Visual ID is always backed up by some kind of IFF beacon so it's effectiveness is questionable
Not really. You won't know the difference between the IFF Code of a Death Commando heavy lance in Death Commando/Camo colors and a Comguard unit in Death Commando colors unless you get info from the pilots, specifically track manufacturing lines (Where was this Marauder made? Where did it go?)

And all of that information's pretty damn hard to find. It's a big Inner Sphere; The concept of it being actually very easy to play as the third force or the "Totally this enemy faction, not this one!" is certainly not lost on the Successor States. It's really only a problem if other forces who can and will cross verify have anything to say about it.

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Paint Schemes and Perfidy
« Reply #3 on: 09 November 2019, 20:54:39 »
Was rereading some books the other day and I want to say one of the Field Manuals mentioned a Mechwarrior who painted the front of his ‘mech in the opfor colors while keeping his back painted in his unit scheme...

Are there any rules in the succession wars or onward outlawing perfidy? Were there even any in the Ares Conventions?

It may not matter, depending on the unit.  I wrote up the Black Warriors in FM: Periphery to introduce more false flag operations (among other things) to the universe.  As Circinian bandits, I can’t imagine the Black Warriors cared about such rules of warfare, assuming they existed.  The same would probably apply to other bandit units, special ops units, scumbag mercs, desperate revolutionaries, etc.
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"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
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Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: Paint Schemes and Perfidy
« Reply #4 on: 10 November 2019, 19:26:10 »
The Area Convention is really just a suggestion to most forces in the Inner Sphere. 
  A Convention is a form of treaty, agreed by participating parties. It isn't a list of "suggestions" but set rules...but the Ares Convention was rarely exercised by the IS.
  RPG-wise, none of my players would ever be part of the MRBC and I have even gone as far to start my own mercenary hiring hall without nanny rules.

Quote
You won't know the difference between the IFF Code of a Death Commando heavy lance in Death Commando/Camo colors and a Comguard unit in Death Commando color
  IFF is only recognized by the side that assigns the codes. Enemy units are shown as not transmitting a valid code. Colors wouldn't mean anything unless a unit just switches off its IFF...but it could be mistaken for enemy by all sides. Secure codes are alphanumeric and hard to decipher, as there are over 16 million variations of a 7-digit code.

Kovax

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Re: Paint Schemes and Perfidy
« Reply #5 on: 11 November 2019, 09:50:16 »
The problem with IFF codes is that, unless you have them changing on the fly every time you transmit, or include some specific information about the unit broadcasting them (so a Trebuchet broadcasting a code for a Battlemaster would quickly be recognized as false) the enemy can simply receive those codes and re-broadcast them as their own.

Colt Ward

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Re: Paint Schemes and Perfidy
« Reply #6 on: 11 November 2019, 12:44:01 »
The problem with IFF codes is that, unless you have them changing on the fly every time you transmit, or include some specific information about the unit broadcasting them (so a Trebuchet broadcasting a code for a Battlemaster would quickly be recognized as false) the enemy can simply receive those codes and re-broadcast them as their own.

Except that like all other signals from the broadcasting unit will be using encryption and Freq Hop.  Which is the big problem with ELINT- because you need everything, you use a huge net to scoop up EVERTHING because you never know what little piece will unlock the puzzle of the encrypted commo and why it does not provide tactical use for the most part.
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Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: Paint Schemes and Perfidy
« Reply #7 on: 11 November 2019, 15:14:55 »
The problem with IFF codes is that, unless you have them changing on the fly every time you transmit, or include some specific information about the unit broadcasting them (so a Trebuchet broadcasting a code for a Battlemaster would quickly be recognized as false) the enemy can simply receive those codes and re-broadcast them as their own.

  IFF is already a form of encryption. Interception and rebroadcast literally means nothing, as they are radar pulses, scrambled by the sender and descrambled by the receiver. Merely acting as a repeater is merely a form of ECM spoofing, as IFF also works by pre-encoded confirmations called "squawks" at random intervals or on command when challenged. If the spoofer doesn't have the decode challenge/response matrix, they cannot confirm authenticity, other than by guessing "Roll D16 million, you need a one.".

Daryk

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Re: Paint Schemes and Perfidy
« Reply #8 on: 11 November 2019, 15:33:11 »
That particular flavor spoofing is called "meaconing".

Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: Paint Schemes and Perfidy
« Reply #9 on: 11 November 2019, 18:22:19 »
That particular flavor spoofing is called "meaconing".
  The methods to jam navigation signals is facilitated by lack of encryption and the fact that the frequencies are usually publicly accessible.

  While I served in the Army, we used manpack-sized navigational beacons, that were only activated when needed, long enough to ID and guide aircraft to within sight of the designated LZ. At that time (1980s), it took the Soviets 12 seconds to locate a transmitter, so all transmissions needed to be completed within 10.   

Daryk

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Re: Paint Schemes and Perfidy
« Reply #10 on: 11 November 2019, 18:55:03 »
Heh... it's hard to navigate by beacons if you can't be sure they'll be up whenever you need them.  That's what leads to them being widely known.

Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: Paint Schemes and Perfidy
« Reply #11 on: 11 November 2019, 19:37:23 »
Heh... it's hard to navigate by beacons if you can't be sure they'll be up whenever you need them.  That's what leads to them being widely known.
  Beacons could be encoded. The user sends a query transmission with the proper code that powers up the beacon. That's how we did it in Germany. A chopper would approach a known landmark and call our GCA (Ground Control Approach) van. We'd call the remote team on a hill 10 miles away to power up the beacon, and we'd power up our radar, then vector the caller to the LZ. The whole operation took seconds.  For positive ID, we used beacon code squawk or 30 degree turns (developed by German radar in WW2).

Daryk

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Re: Paint Schemes and Perfidy
« Reply #12 on: 11 November 2019, 19:40:46 »
Nice... not sure the current generation is up to that level of training yet, but I hope they will be if the balloon ever goes up...

Mohammed As`Zaman Bey

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Re: Paint Schemes and Perfidy
« Reply #13 on: 11 November 2019, 19:51:23 »
Nice... not sure the current generation is up to that level of training yet, but I hope they will be if the balloon ever goes up...
  Sparring with weaklings only trains you to be weak. Training with somebody capable of destroying you is the only way to get stronger. The lessons of history have been forgotten.
 

Daryk

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Re: Paint Schemes and Perfidy
« Reply #14 on: 11 November 2019, 19:57:12 »
Not entirely... some of us are still around who remember why we joined...  The trick is passing it on to the next generation, and I'm doing my damndedest...