Author Topic: General advice for infantry?  (Read 1180 times)

Greyfell

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General advice for infantry?
« on: 20 October 2024, 16:16:53 »
Been slowly plugging away at an AU Periphery power idea and I'm finally looking at infantry.

Could someone point me to any specific errata for infantry construction?  I know there's been a few.

Any general advice on good weapon setups?  I unfortunately don't have access to any Shrapnel issues.
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Daryk

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #1 on: 20 October 2024, 16:38:46 »
I converted all the Shrapnel weapons to TW scale and posted them here... they're linked in my sig block.

For a Periphery power, the best way to go is two Taurian Suns Killer Sniper Rifles backing Auto-Rifles for the rest of the squad.  Also, don't forget to buy body armor.  Tanker Smocks are universally available, provide a Damage Divisor of 2, and aren't encumbering.  Ballistic Plate Vests are more expensive but provide the same benefits without encumbrance.  If you can somehow get surplus Steiner or Davion Armor Jackets, they're the cheapest way to do Divisor 2.

Greyfell

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #2 on: 20 October 2024, 16:57:27 »
Ahhh sweet, thank you! 

While I like the 'best' option, I'm designing a pretty big military overall and some variety would be nice.  But. Autorifles + snipers fits the feel of some of the their forces perfectly.

Are prices and such normally found in ATOW or...?  Or for that matter, availability?

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Daryk

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #3 on: 20 October 2024, 17:15:31 »
Yes... For the Suns Killer, I don't think I'm crossing a line by telling you they cost 600 C-Bills.  If you want all the details, I linked the DriveThruRPG pages for Shrapnel issues in my sig block, way down near the bottom (just above "Other People's Useful Stuff").  They're really not expensive...

Hellraiser

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #4 on: 20 October 2024, 17:32:12 »
Tanker Smocks are universally available, provide a Damage Divisor of 2, and aren't encumbering. 

As a former Abrams Gunner.......... W.T.H. is a "Tanker Smock"?
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Hellraiser

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #5 on: 20 October 2024, 17:40:16 »
While I like the 'best' option, I'm designing a pretty big military overall and some variety would be nice.  But. Autorifles + snipers fits the feel of some of the their forces perfectly.

Just a personal suggestion if you plan on using this stuff in games.

Use as much existing canon Intro Tech stuff as you can. 
  (Like I use basic Ballistic Rifle Foot Infantry for most any "Security/Militia" stuff I want & I use Jump/Motor-SRM platoons for "Heavy Weapons Support"

Then delv into canon "advanced" stuff from TRO3085.   (TAG Infantry, Field Artillery, Field Guns, Paratroopers, Scubatroopers, PlasmaWeapons, etc etc)

Only devise custom stuff to fill the niche areas where you can't get canon to fill the slot.  (My own Designated Marksman Platoons,  Sniper FA,  Heavy Laser Platoons)
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #6 on: 20 October 2024, 17:47:03 »
Re: Tanker Smocks, AToW page 295 refers.  It's how they implemented that REALLY old fluff about Demolisher crews needing cooling suits.  The side benefit is that they're unencumbering and have a total BAR on the torso of 16, enough for Divisor 2.  The table note says it "REPLACES TORSO ARMOR IN STANDARD INFANTRY ATTIRE; INCORPORATES COOLING SYSTEMS*".  The * note just talks about cooling vests/suits, ASF flight suits or Tanker Smocks that have any BAR rating reduced to 0 lose their cooling abilities.  When I implemented them for my Lothians, I replaced the cooling unit with a heating unit... ;)

EDIT: And since you posted again while I was writing the above, I'd say it depends on the kind of game being played.  If one is doing pick up stuff with strangers, your advice is totally solid.  For campaign games (especially as the GM), the sky's the limit! :)

Hellraiser

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #7 on: 20 October 2024, 17:58:07 »
For campaign games (especially as the GM), the sky's the limit! :)

No Daryk, the sky is NOT the limit.

I assure you,  "I am why my GM denies us nice things".

Just ask him, he'll tell you  :evil:

It's not my fault though, most of my actions warcrimes are "proportional responses" to enemy action that they started first.

Of course, I learned the meaning of "proportional responses" from Ronald Reagan growing up (or Ellen Ripley) & my time in the military.............sooo, yeah, nvm.  :angel:
« Last Edit: 20 October 2024, 18:21:46 by Hellraiser »
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #8 on: 20 October 2024, 18:19:36 »
The "sky" being the GM's judgment of what their players will accept, of course... ;)

Greyfell

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #9 on: 20 October 2024, 18:32:33 »
I'm leaning that way heavily especially for the infantry and their (limited) mech forces.  Their 'home guard'/militia are VERY basic, though the more affluent worlds will have field guns, etc.

TAG infantry is going to be a given.   They are VERY big on artillery support and indirect fires (mech mortars, LRM).

Just a personal suggestion if you plan on using this stuff in games.

Use as much existing canon Intro Tech stuff as you can. 
  (Like I use basic Ballistic Rifle Foot Infantry for most any "Security/Militia" stuff I want & I use Jump/Motor-SRM platoons for "Heavy Weapons Support"

Then delv into canon "advanced" stuff from TRO3085.   (TAG Infantry, Field Artillery, Field Guns, Paratroopers, Scubatroopers, PlasmaWeapons, etc etc)

Only devise custom stuff to fill the niche areas where you can't get canon to fill the slot.  (My own Designated Marksman Platoons,  Sniper FA,  Heavy Laser Platoons)
TR1 Wraith:  Because sometimes, you just need to jump around like a fool, spamming pulse lasers!

ANH-1E Annihilator: Look Mom!  I'm crit-packed with *heat sinks*!

Daryk

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #10 on: 20 October 2024, 18:38:50 »
Suns Killers are fluffed as VERY proliferated in the Periphery... even "basic" infantry forces should be able to afford 2 Designated Marksmen per squad... ;)

Hellraiser

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #11 on: 20 October 2024, 19:31:41 »
Suns Killers are fluffed as VERY proliferated in the Periphery... even "basic" infantry forces should be able to afford 2 Designated Marksmen per squad... ;)

Yeah, but then it's making everything into custom cheese.

If they are that common then they should just be "SK Platoons w/ every trooper having them instead of AutoRifles and getting the cheesy BV discount w/ longer range of mixing the 2.

Not that I'm opposed to such cheese, just that I don't make it the ENTIRE military. 

I go custom infantry if I just can't get what I want any other way  (Like my HvyLas Platoons)

Just attempting to keep as much using Canon RS even in a campaign situation.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #12 on: 20 October 2024, 19:54:21 »
BV is the missing piece for all the Shrapnel weapons... TPTB haven't given us that particular black magic formula yet.

Hellraiser

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #13 on: 20 October 2024, 20:19:35 »
BV is the missing piece for all the Shrapnel weapons... TPTB haven't given us that particular black magic formula yet.

Yeah, but even when they do, its the IP construction rules that don't calc BV for the platoon correctly.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Charistoph

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #14 on: 20 October 2024, 21:19:35 »
That's why I tend to stick with what MML gives me, and only make "custom" units where it doesn't make sense, like all the SRM platoons being one squad shy for some reason.

It also saves me the headache of doing the construction by paper, especially the BV.
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Greyfell

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #15 on: 20 October 2024, 21:49:07 »
Hey Hellraiser, do you links to your various infantry stuff?  Just curious
TR1 Wraith:  Because sometimes, you just need to jump around like a fool, spamming pulse lasers!

ANH-1E Annihilator: Look Mom!  I'm crit-packed with *heat sinks*!

Hellraiser

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #16 on: 20 October 2024, 22:08:40 »
Well my stuff was created to fill in the holes for a FC Based Merc Unit, not Periphery.   And I don't have links, but there isn't a ton of it.

So right off the bat the FC-3030 Armor for DD-2 is the basis for most of them given their origin.


When I need something more than the basic Foot-Ballistic Rifle platoons, I use my Foot-MINK platoons  (Short for Medic/Intek)   20 ARs + 8(7) Inteks (-1 Intek for Field Medic)

When I need something that isn't packing SRMs for my Motorized-Scouts,  Motorized-SniperFA,  or Motorized-AC5-FG,  I again use the MINK set up of  20+8-1 above.

My Motorized Heavy Laser units are 20-AR + 8 HSL  (No Medic, because ROCK & ROLL w/ Big Guns)  Again, FC-3030 Armor.

Finally, when I want more Durability than basic Jump-SRM provides, then I use some Jump-Blazer/Shock (15-AR + 6-Blazer) platoons again using FC-3030 Armor.
Blazers aren't great at TW Scale, its an RP issue for me, I just happen to like the old fashion OG Double Barreled Laser Rifle from MW-1E days :)
And while it doesn't matter for TW again, for an RP perspective, all my "Laser Pack - Marksmen" troopers also have Sonic Stunners for Side Arms instead of Pistols since, well, they use the same battery pack :)


Also, I've been working up a Jump/Motor Alternative to the Foot-TAG platoons for added MPs, but, I've never quite figured out what I want to arm them with outside of the TAGs as Support Weapons.  So still up in the air on this one.

The other thing I'd like to look into is perhaps some of the Sniper Rifles from Shrapnel if they ever get BV & TW Stats, etc etc.
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

DOC_Agren

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #17 on: 26 October 2024, 09:21:15 »
Only devise custom stuff to fill the niche areas where you can't get canon to fill the slot.  (My own Designated Marksman Platoons,  Sniper FA,  Heavy Laser Platoons)

Care to share these units?
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Hellraiser

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #18 on: 26 October 2024, 16:28:36 »
Care to share these units?
See my post directly above yours.
I answered the same thing for Greyfell :)

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #19 on: 26 October 2024, 19:54:18 »
I figured out TW stats for all the Shrapnel weapons so far (linked in my sig block), but there's no published formula for BV, so...

DOC_Agren

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #20 on: 26 October 2024, 21:04:35 »
See my post directly above yours.
I answered the same thing for Greyfell :)

I see that now.. I like the MINK platoons
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"

DevianID

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #21 on: 31 October 2024, 03:23:32 »
I did my infantry set up by tech level.  So Tech B infantry get tech B equipment to pick from, Tech C infantry use tech C equipment, ect.  It makes for some interesting design decisions, and the unit combinations that resulted feel like something that would exist organically, not something that is min-maxed to exploit the terrible infantry construction rules.

Like, the grunts/militia/police/civilian partisans get tech B stuff, so they get bolt action rifles, and use mortars or bolt action snipers.

Core military infantry at tech C get grenade launchers/SRMs, and the autorifles/machine guns

Tech D starts getting into fancy armors like Ballistic Plate, laser/blazer/pulse laser rifles, anti material sniper rifles, and for support the laser/heavy laser support guns, AA weapons, and LRM/MRM launchers.  Elite or Special forces type stuff, too expensive for traditional infantry.  Like, yeah the Marians have their great damage divisor 2 armor, but with its price tag only techD rated troops have access to it, not every grunt in the Marian armed forces.

Tech E is the Mausers and really high end stuff, too expensive for line infantry but good for showcase units when you want to throw cash around and show off.  Like if its 3075+ and you want your bodyguard team to have the most expensive gun that exists, you get a Mauser 1200.  Since such showoff Royal Guards/cyborgs and such have a reason to exist in battletech, having a single Tech E platoon or squad, perhaps with full cybernetics, makes sense as a 1 of unit that exists in theory but doesnt really show up in a line battle unless some super VIP in a limo is getting attacked as part of a narrative story.

Hellraiser

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #22 on: 01 November 2024, 00:35:38 »
I did my infantry set up by tech level.  So Tech B infantry get tech B equipment to pick from, Tech C infantry use tech C equipment, ect.  It makes for some interesting design decisions, and the unit combinations that resulted feel like something that would exist organically, not something that is min-maxed to exploit the terrible infantry construction rules. 
Very interesting, I hadn't thought of that.
Now I want to go see how mine break down by tech levels.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #23 on: 01 November 2024, 03:40:24 »
Although it's Tech Level C, the text from the Suns Killer (from Shrapnel #1) is all I need to use it all over that end of the Periphery:
Quote
This sturdy Concordat model has been around for more than 300 years. A bolt-action rifle, the Suns Killer can be found at all levels of the Concordat and Protectorate militaries, from the TDF down to planetary militias. Thousands of retired Suns Killers are sold to the Taurian public, making it the most common rifle in the Concordat. In some cases, militias carry the same rifle their great-grandparents carried.

DevianID

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #24 on: 01 November 2024, 04:38:02 »
Mmm.  I do wanna throw shade at the shrapnel fluff.  Thousands sold to billions of civilians isnt a whole lot, but it could be just a phrasing issue.  But beyond that, all the shrapnel guns have just ungodly stats.  The AP/BD of the sunskiller is just out of whack with the core book's weapons and bolt action rifles.  The 14kg barton, suspiciously similiar to the 14kg Barret, fires a shot that does 1d6 splash damage.  Not a fan of taking anything from shrapnel at face value.

Like, the core book has a 10kg bolt action sniper at 2 range, .18 damage.  The Suns killer is double the range, double the damage, and its only 6kg.  Like... what?  I just cant take it seriously at all.

Daryk

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #25 on: 01 November 2024, 04:59:07 »
The Barton only does 1d6 when used as the primary weapon in a squad.  So it's more like guaranteed kills for hits on personnel.  I view the Shrapnel weapons as a bit of an overcorrection for the anemic versions in AToW.  Right direction, if a little too far.

Hellraiser

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #26 on: 05 November 2024, 11:34:40 »
I think the key w/ infantry weapons being anemic is that you already have anemic BT sized guns.

Nothing in BT matches range or damage penetration we have by today's standards.

So you really CAN'T have realistic infantry rifles if your not going to have realistic Gauss/AutoCannons

If the basic Mech MG is already fluffed as a .50 cal, then why would any infantry weapon have more damage/range than that?
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Daryk

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Re: General advice for infantry?
« Reply #27 on: 05 November 2024, 18:10:35 »
In my head canon, the "normal" 'mech MG is a GAU-19 tri-barrel with a 50-round burst (the Heavy MG is a six-barrel version, and the Light is the good old Ma Deuce).