Is indirect fire actually all that good at long range??

[Calimehter]

Getting back into the game after a long time away . . .

We have an upcoming campaign scenario with a strong chance to take advantage of the indirect fire rules (urban scenario with one side getting a fair number of pre-deployed hidden infantry squad spotters/ambushers).  Seems like the perfect opportunity to have the spotters call down fire for a nice lance of LRM boats hanging back behind the buildings while keeping their distance.

One thing we have noticed, however, is that long range to-hit numbers are already bad enough when you have regular pilots.  Adding indirect fire modifiers on top of that makes it seem like we would be spending an awful lot of ammunition for only an occasional hit or two as the enemy approaches.  Even this would be fine . . . but when the alleyway brawls at close range eventually break out, we may find ourselves wishing we had a lot fewer IS LRM launchers and a lot more close-in weapons. 

It probably doesn't help that the force pool we have to choose from doesn't have much in the way of TAG to use, and the infantry are actually temporary militia help so we can't custom configure them to give them TAG, so semi-guided LRMs are out as an option even though they are technically available in our timeline (3061).  Our primary missle boats tend to be on the slower side, so it would be pretty hard to get fancy and try to keep them at range via maneuver.

One of the downsides to getting the militia help is that we have to go with only 1 lance from our campaign pool without mixing and matching, so we pretty much have to commit ahead of time to a strategy of a heavy investment in LRMs or a heavy investment in close-in brawlers.

I guess the question is:  How effective is indirect fire when you aren't using TAG/Semiguided LRMs and aren't using veteran or elite pilots to help with the to-hit numbers?

[NeonKnight]

Yeah, they are gonna suck.

Remember for Indirect fire, you will be taking the following modifiers:

- +1 Modifier for making an indirect fire attack

- All Modifiers for the Attacking Unit's Movement (so best to stand still)

- All Modifiers for the Spotter's Movement (again, best to stand still)

- All Modifiers for the Target's movement

- All Terrain/Partial Cover Modifiers based off the Spotting Unit's Line of Sight

- Range Modifier for the Range from Attacking unit to Target (includes Minimum range if necessary)

- Finally, if the Spotter makes any attacks, both the Spotter and the Attacking unit take +1 To Hit modifier to each of their attacks.

This means, assuming Long Range attacks, with clear terrain, and both Spotter and Attacker walked and attack at Long Range against a target with a TMM of 2, you would need with a Regular Gunnery (Gun 4):

4
+1 IF
+1 Walk
+1 Spotter Walk
+2 for Target's Movement
+4 Range

You'd need a 13 - so can't hit.

Even with Hoping the Target moves very little (TMM of 1), the Spotter and Attacker aren't moving, you would reduce that Attack down by 3 to a 10.

[AlphaMirage]

Infantry don't suffer an attacker movement mod but yes long rang Indirect is tough.  I only indirect at medium range and it is quite effective there even without TAG.

With such a built up environment the target likely doesn't have a good defensive move mod due to turning and avoiding the run to prevent pilot checks on pavement.  This is also true in dense forests or other broken terrain

[NeonKnight]

Infantry don't suffer an attacker movement mod but yes long rang Indirect is tough.  I only indirect at medium range and it is quite effective there even without TAG.

With such a built up environment the target likely doesn't have a good defensive move mod due to turning and avoiding the run to prevent pilot checks on pavement.  This is also true in dense forests or other broken terrain

True...but without knowing who exactly is proving spotting, better to state what IF counts. Infantry always having a +0 attacker movement modifier means they will never give that penalty.

In the case of this  scenario, best to put them on the top floors of any available buildings to give the best LoS.

[Colt Ward]

Infantry don't suffer an attacker movement mod but yes long rang Indirect is tough.  I only indirect at medium range and it is quite effective there even without TAG.

With such a built up environment the target likely doesn't have a good defensive move mod due to turning and avoiding the run to prevent pilot checks on pavement.  This is also true in dense forests or other broken terrain

Utilizing medium range mostly is good advice . . . the other question, to me, is which LRM vehicles are you planning to use?  For urban fighting . . . I would suggest also loading some of those ammo bins with Thunders.  Sealing off a road that is the most direct route to your LRM vehicles could be beneficial, and while I play DB I like the idea of if your enemy is not observing the hexes they cannot determine where the Thunders ended up.

Since you are using infantry, are you using field guns?  Rapid fire AC rules gets fun, but even Ultras and RACs do not jam when in infantry hands.  A infantry platoon equipped with AC/5s can get 10 good turns of damage . . .

[Weirdo]

Yeah, IDF is rough. You'll get best results when your shower doesn't move, the spotter has clear LoS to the target, and said target is nice and show.

Another bit of advice is to wait until they close to the outer edge of medium range, then drop the hammer. That drop in range modifiers will be a huge help, and 14 hexes is still a very long distance in a city.

[Crimson Dawn]

What are the benefits that tag provides you in terms of modifiers on the attack roll if using normal LRMs indirectly?

[NeonKnight]

What are the benefits that tag provides you in terms of modifiers on the attack roll if using normal LRMs indirectly?

If you hit with TAG, you take the following (Page 31 BMM):

TAG: A ’Mech that hits a target with target acquisition gear
(TAG; see p. 113) also spots the target for indirect fire; this is the
’Mech’s one allowed spot for the turn (the reverse is not true: just
spotting a target in no way benefits TAG-guided munitions). If a
’Mech uses TAG against a target and misses, the ’Mech can still
attempt to spot any target for indirect fire in the normal fashion.

Note that spotting a target for indirect fire via TAG does not
apply any of the special Target Number modifiers listed under the
final bullet point above.

[Crimson Dawn]

So a unit that uses tag has to apply its movement mod to the indirect firing units attack like you would with normal spotting?

[grimlock1]

As long as you have deep bins on your LRM platforms, you can spot with hidden units, and the To Hit is possible, I say it's worth it, but I won't say it's great, or even good.  What makes it work is the asymmetry.  The other force is taking fire, they can't hurt the person shooting at them, and they can't find the spotter that they know is out there somewhere.   What's your spotter?  Is it a bunch of ground pounders hiding under a camo net?  Is it Hunchback hidden in a building?  So now they have to advance into an area they KNOW you've already prepared, and do it while taking fire.

[NeonKnight]

So a unit that uses tag has to apply its movement mod to the indirect firing units attack like you would with normal spotting?

No.

Page 31, Right Above the TAG section:

Semi-Guided Missiles: If their target has been designated
by friendly TAG (see p. 113), these munitions ignore the target
movement modifier. If fired indirectly, they also ignore all indirect
fire, spotter, and terrain modifiers.

[Weirdo]

He's not asking about S-G rounds. Just normal ones guided by the fact that anything that has been TAGged has been Spotted.

[Colt Ward]

As I read it, it was simply two attempts to spot?  And if you make the TAG spot it does not affect your weapons firing phase.

[NeonKnight]

Ah, in that case, if the Unit Uses TAG against a Target, and Hits with TAG, then the unit is deemed to be Spotting, so all normal modifiers should apply.

It cannot TAG the unit, and then spot a second unit.

If it fails the TAG, then it would be allowed to spot normally (either the same unit, or another).

Again, I believe.

As I read it, it was simply two attempts to spot?  And if you make the TAG spot it does not affect your weapons firing phase.

well, the LIST of Bulleted Modifiers under Indirect Firing is:

All standard modifiers for attacker and target movement;

• All standard modifiers for the spotter’s movement;
• Terrain modifiers and partial cover based on line of sight from the spotter, not the firing ’Mech;
• +1 for indirect fire;
  
• Range modifier based on the range between the attacker and target, including minimum range modifiers;
• Finally, if a spotter makes any attacks during the Weapon Attack Phase of a turn that it also spots, apply a +1 Target Number
  modifier to those attacks, as well as an additional +1 modifier to the indirect fire attack.

So, yes, a successful TAG allows the 'Tagger' to make attacks without penalty to either itself or the firing unit.

[Calimehter]

For our situation, the Defender will have 12 squads of militia allowed to deploy on the map as Hidden Units.  The militia are motorized rifle and SRM squads, with no customizing or field guns or TAG available for them since they are scenario assignments and not part of the campaign forces.  We haven't generated the mapsheets yet (will be using the Urban tables to do that), but there should be good vantage points from plenty of upper levels of buildings to spot very large sections of the play area.

Defender is trying to choose between bringing the indirect fire lance (Salamander, Archer, 2x Catapults) or a more close-in-brawling lance (a couple suitable lances to choose from, most likely setup being Victor, Grasshopper, Marauder 5-D, and Axman).  Opposition will likely be a 2-3 Clan Omnimechs with a roughly equal amount of Elemental support, probably configured for close in action.  Repair/replacement rolls are still being resolved now that post-battle resources are allocated after the first scenario (in which the IF lance took a bad beating) so those rolls may make the decision for the Defender when all is said and done, but *if* the fire lance is back up to full strength, it would be good to know if it was a worthy option to consider.  :)   

It is sounding like *maybe* at this point.  Sounds like the long-range numbers will be bad even with the TNs having no spotter movement mods due to the circumstances . . . but the replies have correctly pointed out that medium range mods should be available for at least some fire, and those are more likely to connect.  Also, even if the LRMs don't finish anyone off, its not like the medium lasers and kicks of the fire lance are anything to sneeze at in close quarters **if** the LRMs have at least done a decent job of softening them up first.  The nightmare scenario for the Defender, though, would be facing off against, oh, say a pair of Thor C's or Black Hawk Prime's or some such at close range (having just discharged some Elemental support) with only a few 5-point clusters shaved off of their armor.  :-\

[AlphaMirage]

Don't forget smoke rounds can be fired indirectly as well (at s much easier to hit).  That could be useful to block LOS down a street preventing the Omnis from protecting their Starmates back from Jumpers and spoil clan targeting solutions

[Colt Ward]

So a mixed star, 2-3 Omnis or 3-2 Elemental points . . .

Honestly, I think your best bet would be a ad hoc lance of Catapults, Axman and Maraduer or Victor which leaves you with a all jumper force since running on pavement is a Bad Idea.  One thing to keep in mind is the Elementals will be able to move through the buildings with ease.  Since your not using DB or letting the mechs also be hidden, it makes it harder to ambush a patrol entering the city.

Do you have a objective fighting in the city or is it just buying time?

[Paul]

For our situation, the Defender will have 12 squads of militia allowed to deploy on the map as Hidden Units.

Squads or platoons?
If platoons, you can make a hardpoint: pick a building with impressive CF (At least a Heavy Building, Hardened obviously preferred) and park all the SRM platoons in it. Let's assume you get 4 of those, 8 of the Motorized, then you can stack 2 on each Level of the building. 4 SRM, 4 Motorized, Hidden so the first thing that trips them loses its movement modifier, that's going to make a big difference.
If squads, their firepower is borderline irrelevant, and just spread them around for maximum LOS.
The solution to that problem is to drop the building, so the real ideal is a building that permits the infantry to withdraw a step in to a fresh one. Or with the Motorized platoons, they have enough to cross the street in to a new building, even go up a Level.
If you go mobile on that tactic, don't stack them too high, but go side-by-side instead.

The other 4 platoons can be spread through the city. Find tall buildings, with extensive LOS options, and far from the fight so they don't get accidentally found. Make sure 1-2 of the platoons has LOS on the street(s) the enemy is likely to use so you can IDF them every turn. After all, buildings block LOS, so you may have several streets without LOS options if you're not careful.

(Salamander, Archer, 2x Catapults)

Victor, Grasshopper, Marauder 5-D, and Axman)

Tough choice.

Opposition will likely be a 2-3 Clan Omnimechs with a roughly equal amount of Elemental support, probably configured for close in action. 

If you learn that type of OmniMechs they are, my recommendation is: go with the IDF lance when the enemy is slow (so 4/6 or less, JJs OK) and the brawler lance if the enemy is fast.
With just a few targets to destroy, being able to fire LRMs without answer for several turns is great, and you can space your LRM Mechs out such that one is getting the attention, while the others still hose LRMs downrange at short or medium modifiers once LOS is established. Just make sure to make the most of your armor advantage by rotating Mechs, and by not overloading on LRM ammo. Assume you'll only want about 6-8 turns worth of ammo, or prepare to have a turn where you're dumping ammo. (Easy when you're standing still doing IDF, and you know the enemy can make LOS in turn 5: fire everything and dump ammo in turn 4. If the enemy can jump behind you, you've waited too long)


The biggest problem here is the Elementals, they actually change this extensively. They can rapidly move through the city, will likely be suboptimal IDF targets, and once they close, you need volume of fire to put them down. Note that buildings, when you're adjacent to them, you don't make a to-hit roll, AND no Cluster rolls, so you can likely drop a variety of buildings on them when they close, especially if you have a few turns to prep while the enemy is out of range. (The brawler lance will basically be standing around waiting, so they can do a lot of 'prep' damage. But 3 JJs in the city gives them a lot of buildings to pick from.

IDF for me is:
Gunnery +1 IDF + range + Target Movement.
I don't do it when the spotter movement and LOS issues matters, or when the spotter needs to be shooting, unless it's a throw-away shot.
So, my assumption is Gunnery 4 + 1 + 4 range + 2 target movement = 11's. Drop to 9's at Medium. Drop to 7s at short (not impossible in cities, but likely you'll have 1-2 Minimum Range penalties too).

Between the Elementals and the probability of the enemy being 5/8/5 or better, I think the brawler lance has it this time. Especially if the missile Mechs arent mint.

One final reminder: remember that you can easily (enough) move through buildings to either break LOS, or to improve your own cover for a few turns. Building collapse damage is based on CF at the start of the turn, so as they can't quite drop a building in a single salvo, you can even tolerate that damage sometimes.
Beware of basements though. I think they're lame rules, but if they're in play, dont try going through buildings unless their base CF could withstand the weight of your Mech.

[Col Toda]

Wrong tool or tactic . Indirect fire  9 with mech mortar Air Burst hits everything in the target hex half damage to buildings and such . Say 5 on a mech mortar 8 cluster is 5 points of Damage to every elemental  suit in the hex . 2 mech mortar  8 hits air burst on turn 1 has maybe 10 percent  chance of killing  the elemental point entirely  .  3 hits ought to do it on average. Unfortunately  the hex is a straight  to hit not - 4 for immobilized target with this weapon . 9 is a little less than 50/50 .  Cluster 4 or 5 on 8 launcher . So 3 hits 7 shots maybe to get them ? A little luck or just numbers .

 Semi guided  eliminates  the movement  and indirect  penalty  so a base target of 8 vs a TAGed target .

Just volume  fire 5 trailers with 5 LRM 15s each and 8 turns of ammo is nice average  2 hits / turn and 18 damage is target # is 11 or 12  .  Most such is about 1,275,000 C Bill's / each .  25 shots / turn . Tends to dead average 2 hits a turn not lucky or maybe . This tactic just excepts and embraces the odds and numbers

NARC pods ? Maybe ?  Is it balanced BV or C Bill's?

Check out 1/2 ton recon cameras  . Available  all eras.
Ground unit rolls a to hit at TAG ranges and if you do so it spots vs that target w/o eating  to hit penalty  for shooting the same round as spotting . . Hope you overcome the issue.

[Weirdo]

Where did he say he had access to mech mortars, TAG, NARC, or non-canon LRM trailers?

Might be more useful to give suggestions based on what he's said he's actually going to have access to.

[Calimehter]

Where did he say he had access to mech mortars, TAG, NARC, or non-canon LRM trailers?

Heh.  As it turns out, not only will the Lyran defender not have access to those shiny toys, he won't have access to his Salamander either. 

Repair and replacement roll results are in . . . the Catapults and the Archer walked out of the shop with nary any evidence of their earlier thrashing, but the Salamander replacement roll failed.  Charitable folks would say that high command assigned it to a more hard-pressed sector of the Jade Falcon incursion, but honestly its probably decorating some Social General's parade lance back on Melissa.  ;D

Without the 3x LRM-20's of the Salamander available, the original question is almost certainly moot, at least for the immediate upcoming scenario.

Still . . . good to get all the extra info about IF and working the TN game when using it, especially since we didn't use it much even back in the days when we played more regularly.  Thank you everyone for your replies!  I'm sure we will get a chance to put all of this into action at some point in the campaign, even if we have to wait a while.

[Simon Landmine]

Good luck! And if you get a chance to let us know how the battle goes, could you stick it up in the After Action Reports forum? I'm curious!

[Col Toda]

I admit my suggestions  have few or no canon designs  . Trailers just can be built in any  machine shop and motor pool with loose heavy weapons . A tractor is a vehicle  with hitch and military  fire control taken from any combat vehicle salvage . No canon examples because  it is expected  you make your own design . Techs , Time , and materials.  So few canon units use Mech Mortars  period :  less than a handful . It is presumed they be in gun emplacements  or trailers more than the Barghast or other mech with them . Modifying  units with recon cameras is by no means  all that outside the box .

[Daryk]

Indeed... many light/medium 3025 'mechs with MGs can easily swap a half ton of MG ammo for a Recon Camera.

[Weirdo]

If the game in question allows customs, if the player force has the spare BV/c-bills/warchest points/whatever, and if the GM allows access to uncommon weapons like mech mortars.

Never wise to assume any of those are in effect, much less all of them at once.

[Daryk]

Recon Cameras should be an easy sell, really.  They're not game breaking in any way.

[Colt Ward]

I still think its best to go with a ad hoc lance- the Catapults can contribute those wonderful 4 MLs to the Axman & Victor/Marauder dealing with things close up.

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Do you have anything carrying a NARC in the force?  Rules are NARC guided ammo does not require a spotter for indirect fire.  So you can cut out all the spotter modifiers.  You still have the IDF +1 and you lose the +2 on the cluster table roll however.

[Paul]

Charitable folks would say that high command assigned it to a more hard-pressed sector of the Jade Falcon incursion, but honestly its probably decorating some Social General's parade lance back on Melissa.  ;D

Hah! Well put.

Without the 3x LRM-20's of the Salamander available, the original question is almost certainly moot, at least for the immediate upcoming scenario.

I think you're totally right. Drop a note in this thread after it's done, I'm interested to hear how it went.

[Calimehter]

I've got a write-up started for the campaign that I'm planning on throwing up in the After Action reports board at some point soon.  Updates might come slowly, but they will come.  :)

Colt - I wanted to address your comments on using a combo force, since I agree that an ad hoc lance would probably be the best move to take advantage of a good indirect fire opportunity without having to go "all or nothing" on it.  For most of our Battletech-sized scenarios, each side is allowed to draw from two of their pre-existing lances (or stars) to form a fighting force, and would normally have no problems mixing up a fire lance and a brawler lance. 

In our Urban Warfare scenario, however, the defender replaces one of his lance contributions with the militia forces, so the remainder will only come from one lance.  The militia give the defender a nice advantage in terms of advance/hidden deployment (and also don't have to be replaced from the campaign supply pool when they die) but it is at the cost of force flexibility, as the militia already are the other half of the 'usual' ad-hoc combo in this particular case. 

[Weirdo]

In which case yeah, I'd go for the brawlers. Use the militia to weaken his Elementals or go for back shots, and remind him that ignoring infantry is a comedy of errors.

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

Perhaps it is the time to finally dig the grave of 'Mech Mortar and excavate it? You know, although it is a lackluster weapon, its Airburst round does not cares the movement of the units on the target - its target is always immobile(It is true that it doesn't gets -4 modifier but still it doesn't suffers enemy movement).

Well, if you are think about to use the mortar you can use artillery cannon instead, though.

Also as pointed above, Semi-Guided missile would be a thing.

[Paul]

Perhaps it is the time to finally dig the grave of 'Mech Mortar and excavate it? You know, although it is a lackluster weapon, its Airburst round does not cares the movement of the units on the target - its target is always immobile(It is true that it doesn't gets -4 modifier but still it doesn't suffers enemy movement).

Well, if you are think about to use the mortar you can use artillery cannon instead, though.

Also as pointed above, Semi-Guided missile would be a thing.

No, because as pointed out repeatedly: neither of those weapons are available in this scenario.

[grimlock1]

Heh.  As it turns out, not only will the Lyran defender not have access to those shiny toys, he won't have access to his Salamander either. 

Repair and replacement roll results are in . . . the Catapults and the Archer walked out of the shop with nary any evidence of their earlier thrashing, but the Salamander replacement roll failed.  Charitable folks would say that high command assigned it to a more hard-pressed sector of the Jade Falcon incursion, but honestly its probably decorating some Social General's parade lance back on Melissa.  ;D

I may have missed it earlier but which versions are the defenders running?

[Kovax]

If any one of the "brawler" units have LRM capability, it would probably benefit you to use it.  For the most part, not getting the Salamander seriously limits your ability to use IDF as the primary focus of the defense, but it's still a viable option on a smaller scale for harassment and initial "softening" before  the excrement strikes the impeller.  There's generally a heavy psychological factor as well, when someone is taking fire but unable to do anything about it, sometimes forcing bad decisions.

As said, having a stationary spotter in a distant building with a view (like the stereotypical sniper in a bell tower), a stationary firer at medium range on a parallel street, and limited target movement due to turns on pavement, you're probably looking at 9s or 10s for a lot of those shots, which aren't great, but good enough if the enemy's movement is limited.  Another possible angle would be to load up the LRM bin with FASCAM, and mine the approaches.  That might split the advancing Clan units between jumpers and non-jumpers, allowing a piecemeal confrontation, or else inflict some initial leg damage going into the brawl.  You might only need one LRM unit for that, preferably one with more than one ammo bin to allow some normal munitions as well.

[Colt Ward]

Well, if I was running the brawler lance I think the Marauder would be best as the rear most unit as 'bait' - basically the first to move and keep distance.  You have the ERPPCs and LPL (if they get close enough) and will let you try to draw the Clan Omnis forward enough that your Victor (AC20?) and especially Axman can get close enough to snuggle.  Instead of having the infantry positioned as spotters I would go with Weirdo's suggestion and position them in buildings for a ambush- the mechs draw them in, get the big hole punching damage and the infantry are SRM-like in their damage spread.  The 2 pt scatter would stand a good chance of finding openings the AC20s or Gauss Rifles make to help take down the Omnis.

Now if the Clans take the S versions of the Omnis . . . well, that might hurt differently.

[Calimehter]

Not even so much as a single LRM-5 in the two brawler lances most eligible for the match . . . but hey, at least the GHR-5J has ONE HUNDRED SRM-2 Streak rounds to make up for the loss of its LRM launcher!  Gotta love some of those 3050 upgrades.

Checking the scenario rules again, I had clean forgotten that the militia also includes one light vehicle, with Scorpion Tanks among the approved models.  There seems to be a canon variant with an LRM swapout, so maybe there will be some indirect fire to talk about in the eventual report after all, even if it isn't much.

[Paul]

Not even so much as a single LRM-5 in the two brawler lances most eligible for the match . . . but hey, at least the GHR-5J has ONE HUNDRED SRM-2 Streak rounds to make up for the loss of its LRM launcher!  Gotta love some of those 3050 upgrades.

Eesh. Ask the GM if you can start with a reduced quantity of ammo. Like 10 is moooore than enough most fights. If he doesn't like partially filled bins for some reason, ask to start with 0. That ammo is a major liability for 0 gain.

Checking the scenario rules again, I had clean forgotten that the militia also includes one light vehicle, with Scorpion Tanks among the approved models.  There seems to be a canon variant with an LRM swapout, so maybe there will be some indirect fire to talk about in the eventual report after all, even if it isn't much.

Yes, it's often good to irritate the enemy. The Scorpion LRM is actually decent: it has 2 launchers, so 2 chances to hit something. It's weird that they're 2 different launcher sizes, but that's not a big deal.

[StoneRhino]

The problem is that you are asking if they are "that good at long range", while referring to short range rock em sock em robot fights in the same sentence. I don't have the time I would like to spend on this, but if you are firing indirectly at LRM long range then you are landing shots on a 10, on average, against assaults and heavies. Don't bother trying to shoot things that have a 2 or 3 move mod unless theres nothing else to shoot and you have plenty of ammo.

Chances are you are going to need a 10 to hit, then you are going to land 50% of the missiles fired at them. Is that worth it? If you are just firing LRMS at long range for a turn or two then the answer is likely to be "no". Now if you are firing at LRM medium range against units that cannot see the launcher and they have to get past other units, then the answer is "maybe".

Now if you can use those LRMs to annoy the other player even if you are not doing a lot of damage, then the answer is most likely a "yes". Simply doing damage is low level, doing damage and causing the other player to do what you want, or causing them a lot of mental anguish for going against your will, is worth it. People tend to stay away from areas where they feel that they are going to get hammered by indirect fire and go where they feel that they are safe. That all depends upon the individual, the maps, and your other units, which makes it hard to give a quick response going into how to adjust for different people.

I always have something for indirect fire and there are games where it has done nothing, if you are simply looking at the damage that it has done to opposing units. There have been games where it has done a lot of damage. The games where it has done next to no damage have been games where the other side has avoided it's radius. While I would like to do damage, having the other side funneled into a specific area was desired. In the games where they did a lot of damage were games in which the other side stubbornly held onto an area, or had their movement spoiled by friendly units, causing them to burn up MP to get nowhere and stay within my launchers' radius. On a low level of play one could declare that the second example did the most, but having controlled the other player with the launchers helped my other units.

Of course there have been games where the launchers missed every shot and did not force the other side's moves.  ;D

[Calimehter]

I think that is quite right, and the Lyran player decided in the end that it would be a bad idea to go all out on that strategy (even if the heavy Salamander Mech had been available) even with these ideal circumstances.  The to-hit numbers are just too high to do decisive damage without a lot of luck.

The battle in the books now in the After Action Reports, and the only indirect LRM fire effect involved was a few desultory hits from an LRM Scorpion tank against a foe already committed to closing fast.