Is an all nose weapon warship a bad idea

[Daryk]

If you're ever short for tonnage, NL/45s can also reach Extreme Range (like 55s... 35s are limited to Long).

[Primus203]

A secondary question to people just so Im sure I understand some stuff capital damage is ten times regular weapon damage correct? Meaning my design below the gauss lancer with two improved heavy gauss rifles damage 22 would have four capital damage potential per turn.

Code: [Select]

Lancer Gauss Lancer

Mass: 100 tons
Frame: Lancer
Power Plant: 200 Light Lancer
Armor: Ferro-Aluminum
Armament:
     3 ER Medium Laser
     2 Improved Heavy Gauss Rifle
     1 Laser AMS
Manufacturer: Custom Aerospace
     Primary Factory: Custom Areospace
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3065
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-F-E
Cost: 17,074,500 C-bills

Type: Lancer
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 100
Battle Value: 2,672

Equipment                                          Mass
Engine                        300 XL                9.5
Safe Thrust: 5
Max Thrust: 8
Structural Integrity:         10                       
Heat Sinks:                   15 [30]                 5
Fuel:                         800                  10.0
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          232                    13

                           Armor   
                           Value   
     Nose                    70   
     Wings                 58/58   
     Aft                     46   


Weapons
and Ammo                               Location   Tonnage  Heat   SRV  MRV  LRV  ERV
3 ER Medium Laser                        NOS       3.0      5      5    5    0    0 
Laser AMS                                NOS       1.5      7      3    0    0    0 
Improved Heavy Gauss Rifle               RWG       20.0     2     22   22   22    0 
Improved Heavy Gauss Rifle Ammo (16)     FSLG      4.0      -      -    -    -    - 
Targeting Computer                       FSLG      11.0     -      -    -    -    - 
Improved Heavy Gauss Rifle               LWG       20.0     2     22   22   22    0 

[Daryk]

Sounds right to me...

[Hellraiser]

Yes, but, only if it lined up the shot in the 1 hex row directly out from the Nose since the wings only overlap in that 1 line.

Otherwise if your off row from the target even 1 row you only get 1 wing or the other.



For the Battleship, If I was trying to make a sniper out of the front bay I think I'd pack it with something like this.

Nose:
HNPPC *4   (60-Extreme w/ Brackets)
NL45 *5   (23-Extreme w/ Brackets or AA fire)
Screen Launcher *1   (Protection as you close from multiple targets)
AMS *2  (*5)


You can probably reduce the # of NACs per Side bay a bit since they do overlap on the broadsides.   (Do SCL have AA & Bracket modes?)
If so, maybe something like this?

Fore/Aft Side....
NAC-30 *2
NAC-30 *2
NAC-30 *2
SCL-3  *4
ERLL-2/ERML-4
AMS *2  (*2)


Finally, I'd always want at least 2 guns in the AFT capable of providing Ortillery through the atmosphere.   (Not sure if SC weps do that well)
AFT:
HNPPC *2
SCL-3 *5
Screen Launcher *1
ERLL-2/ERML-4
AMS *2  (*3)

[AlphaMirage]

An SCL/1 can do ortillery support but Capital missiles are better at it (and nuke capable) while remaining useful in space as you can bearings only launch them into broadsides or use them to fire at pursuing or passing hostiles.

[Primus203]

To hellraiser the brawler is a meant as a broadside combatant meant to heavily discourage the enemy from getting closer its designed to support the aforementioned nose weapon heavy fleet.

Also on the subject of ortillery the buckler my light frigate and most common warship has all around sub cap 1 laser for anti air so ortillery is taken care of.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

I’m following for several reason: one because this is a good thread on evolving a design, and two… very interesting designs!

[DevianID]

Not sure if anyone has played or seen 'Terra Invicta' but they have the physics space warship thing, and are big on nose weapons.  Why that works in that game though is engagement time.  That game is played roughly on the '10 second' turn while battlespace is on the 1 minute turn.  So in battlespace, you are way more committed to your approach with much less shooting actions per KM moved, while in Terra Invicta you have plenty of time to shoot nose weapons before the close.

In battlespace, the Meme engines means that its not too hard to come in at an angle, with side armor thats frankly impossible on such a long ship, and you can high-G burn at such a rate you are flung off the map in no time.  In high speed closing engagements this nose-heavy design shines:  You get 1 pass, so you want max nose armor and nose weapons.  But while high speed engagements are realistic, its a subset of the space combat that isnt seen much.  The more common game type is 'meet in the middle where both sides agree not to go too fast and fly off the map.'  In that game type, the nose-only design is immediately outmaneuvered and flanked.  If you try and stay near your board edge, the enemy flys off the map getting behind you, so thats not a good solution either as there is no 'pushing off the edge' in battlespace to prevent your ship from camping the hexmap corner, and the -2 'no thrust' penalty isnt really a penalty at all if they cant flank you or approach your rear.  So I just dont see how to actually play this ship without lots of caveats.

You have to agree to not corner camp, they have to agree not to go too fast to instantly nullify your front arc if you do move away from the board edge, ect.

[Hellraiser]

But while high speed engagements are realistic, its a subset of the space combat that isnt seen much.  The more common game type is 'meet in the middle where both sides agree not to go too fast and fly off the map.'  In that game type, the nose-only design is immediately outmaneuvered and flanked.  If you try and stay near your board edge, the enemy flys off the map getting behind you, so thats not a good solution either as there is no 'pushing off the edge' in battlespace to prevent your ship from camping the hexmap corner, and the -2 'no thrust' penalty isnt really a penalty at all if they cant flank you or approach your rear.  So I just dont see how to actually play this ship without lots of caveats.

I think the problem here is actually playing out past 1 turn of a high speed fly by.

It's not the "edge of the map" that is the issue.
It's the "High Speed" part.

This isn't some 10 speed v/s 5 speed sort of thing.
If you don't spend nearly equal time "slowing down" then your gone, far past any ability to try & slow down & come back.
A true high speed pass is going to look something like an F-16 strafing grunts only w/o the ability to turn & bank back around in just a minute or so.  1 pass, never seen again.

The speeds they go past your out of weapons range the next turn.
And if your NOT going that fast, then its not a "High Speed" pass, its just, oh, a bit faster than you.

Correct me if my math is wrong here but at 1G build up on a 1 week from Jump Point to Planet time, your moving along at 10K+ velocity.
Heck, lets scale that back to just 15 minutes of build up at 1G & your going V-30 which at 2.5G will still take 6 turns to bring to 0 before your moving back for another pass.

What kind of game is that, 5-10 turns of ho-hum in between 1 turn of fire.
I don't even want to think about what that does over a long fight to the crew, lol.

All the map space in the world isn't going to make a true high speed game much fun as far as I can tell.

[Hellraiser]

An SCL/1 can do ortillery support but Capital missiles are better at it (and nuke capable) while remaining useful in space as you can bearings only launch them into broadsides or use them to fire at pursuing or passing hostiles.

Good to know, I've never used Ortillery but I thought the rules for it made it pretty hard w/o some long range guns.

[DevianID]

I think the problem here is actually playing out past 1 turn of a high speed fly by.

It's not the "edge of the map" that is the issue.
It's the "High Speed" part.

This isn't some 10 speed v/s 5 speed sort of thing.
If you don't spend nearly equal time "slowing down" then your gone, far past any ability to try & slow down & come back.
A true high speed pass is going to look something like an F-16 strafing grunts only w/o the ability to turn & bank back around in just a minute or so.  1 pass, never seen again.

The speeds they go past your out of weapons range the next turn.
And if your NOT going that fast, then its not a "High Speed" pass, its just, oh, a bit faster than you.

Correct me if my math is wrong here but at 1G build up on a 1 week from Jump Point to Planet time, your moving along at 10K+ velocity.
Heck, lets scale that back to just 15 minutes of build up at 1G & your going V-30 which at 2.5G will still take 6 turns to bring to 0 before your moving back for another pass.

What kind of game is that, 5-10 turns of ho-hum in between 1 turn of fire.
I don't even want to think about what that does over a long fight to the crew, lol.

All the map space in the world isn't going to make a true high speed game much fun as far as I can tell.

There are specific rules for high speed engagements.  You dont play with a hexmap, per strat ops, cause like you point out at the velocities involved you wont see the other ship again for days.  But you dont even need weeks of acceleration to make the battlespace map too small.  A 3/5 ship trying to close with a nose-only fighter, after 3 turns, has moved 5+10+15 hexes, so is off the map on turn 4 using the neoprene space map.  If you have a 50 hex wide map, you are off the map turn 5 unless you reverse engines turn 3.  The whole time you are at an angle to the nose-cone warship, so you have very few engagement options.  On such a large map, if the nose-cone warship moves forward, well then they are out of arc turn 3 on a 50 wide space map as the other ships are halfway across the board cutting left and right of the nose cone, so one group always will be flanking.  If the nose-cone ship sits in the map corner, on the other hand, they are always in arc and nothing the enemy does maneuvering wise matters cause flying off the edge is bad and the gauss has range across the 50 hexes, with no chance of ever not being in arc.

So like, either you are instantly flanked, or you never move and are a nose arc god, and can 100% neglect your rear thanks to the map corner.  Both feel super unsatisfying.

Only the optional high speed pass combat rules make sense to me for a nose-cone warship; they are very abstracted but ultimately fair as each side picks their heading and such for the pass.  You dont have to fight the hexmap, and dont need a massive 50 hex play grid that is still too small by turn 5 for the slowest ships.

[AlphaMirage]

Good to know, I've never used Ortillery but I thought the rules for it made it pretty hard w/o some long range guns.

Oh no, its still hard regardless. Ortillery is really more of an area target "to whom it may concern" thing unless you have a TAG spotter on the ground and even then, it might be off by a bit (maybe even into friendlies Helldivers 2 style). Capital missiles are much more accurate but have a few turn delay compared to instant energy pillar of doom.

[Primus203]

I'm a little glad that my topics sparked a decent amount of discussion. Anyways new design thrown out to add to fleet ideas. The Cataphract a heavy missile ship and probably rare for my fleet maybe only one for main fleet.

All around four piranhas per face to make aircraft and dropships cry hundred missiles per launcher. And then the broadside ten kraken-t per broadside capable face totaling  thirty kraken-t per broadside. Could only fit twenty five missiles per launcher though.

I've been given to understand that the bigger missiles are harder to shoot down so multiple krakens should get through. One of the biggest issues I see is that the Cataphract would need two of my three hundred thousand ton supply ships to reload once.

Code: [Select]

Cataphract Heavy Missile Cruiser
Mass: 1,200,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Introduced: 3065
Mass: 1,200,000
Battle Value: 243,558
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: 17,233,878,000 C-bills

Fuel: 3,000 tons (7,500)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 6
KF Drive Integrity: 24
Heat Sinks: 4400 (8800)
Structural Integrity: 140

Armor
    Nose: 754
    Fore Sides: 619/619
    Aft Sides: 551/551
    Aft: 350

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (30)            15 Doors 
    Bay 2:  Cargo (27782.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    1,500 rounds of Kraken (Tele-Operated) ammunition (1,200 tons),
    3,200 rounds of Piranha ammunition (320 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 1
Grav Decks: 2 (200 m, 200 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 100
Crew:  63 officers, 222 enlisted/non-rated, 92 gunners, 60 bay personnel, 40 BA marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Naval C3
3,360 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                      Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (148 Heat)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
FRS/FLS (578 Heat)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
5 Tele-operated Missile (Kraken T)        250  50(500) 50(500) 50(500) 50(500)  Tele-Operated Capital Missile
    Kraken (Tele-Operated) Ammo (125 shots)
5 Tele-operated Missile (Kraken T)        250  50(500) 50(500) 50(500) 50(500)  Tele-Operated Capital Missile
    Kraken (Tele-Operated) Ammo (125 shots)
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
RBS/LBS (578 Heat)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
5 Tele-operated Missile (Kraken T)        250  50(500) 50(500) 50(500) 50(500)  Tele-Operated Capital Missile
    Kraken (Tele-Operated) Ammo (125 shots)
5 Tele-operated Missile (Kraken T)        250  50(500) 50(500) 50(500) 50(500)  Tele-Operated Capital Missile
    Kraken (Tele-Operated) Ammo (125 shots)
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
ARS/ALS (578 Heat)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
5 Tele-operated Missile (Kraken T)        250  50(500) 50(500) 50(500) 50(500)  Tele-Operated Capital Missile
    Kraken (Tele-Operated) Ammo (125 shots)
5 Tele-operated Missile (Kraken T)        250  50(500) 50(500) 50(500) 50(500)  Tele-Operated Capital Missile
    Kraken (Tele-Operated) Ammo (125 shots)
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
Aft (148 Heat)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         So I'm unsure if this design could hack it or not. I'm also don't know how bad teleoperated missiles will be affected compared to something like a standard Killer whale.

Also id like opinions. What do you guys think of lithium fusion batteries. Are they worth it from a tactical or strategic perspective? If I remove them the ship cost drops drastically.

The Ballista from 34.6 billion to 19 billion

The brawler from 18.2 billion to 13.8 billion

The Cataphract from 17.2 billion to 12.8 billion

The Arrowhead from 20.3 billion to 11.1 billion

And lastly the buckler from 7 billion to 4.3 billion

Seeing as the buckler is the most common followed by the arrowhead, then somewhat more distantly for the ballista, and finally very distantly for the brawler and cataphract this means removal of the lithium fusion battery allows me to increase fleet size by about sixty percent.

The downside is less jump range and no emergency exit jump.

[AlphaMirage]

My opinion of the Kraken is that it is a very complicated weapon to make work properly. It only has 25 thrust points for instance which allows it to be outmaneuvered at range. Since it is teleoperated only it can be jammed by a clever adversary by putting 3 ECM hexes between it and your control ship. This is why I like ECM and AMS equipped Small Craft for the forward missile intercept role. It is however a fantastic orbital bombardment weapon if you don't want to use nukes for some reason. Teleoperated Missiles IMO are better on PWS that can attack from other angles than the line between Warships and want to keep range with their foe as you can kind of drift them in.

LF-batteries are complicated and very contextual. Three questions need to be asked with them:
Do you have enough ships to cover your empire sufficiently against your expected threats? If yes then you probably don't need them, if no you might.

Does your enemy possess LF-batteries and if so on what?
LF-batteries a major trade off, they are expensive and heavy, if you add them to a ship you won't be as capable of going against something in your weight bracket as readily since you'd be risking more resources with less mass. However, that doesn't mean you can't go bigger. Your enemy might have say LF-equipped Heavy Cruisers for commerce raiding. Now that is a major threat that your in-system ships might not be able to handle. Can you find them and summon more ships to fight them off before they jump out on their own after casing mayhem?

What is this ship's role? Like above, a LF-equipped Heavy Cruiser is a major threat to your enemy as it could be capable of overpowering a system's Frigate or Destroyer patrol (and getting away from a prowling Battleship or fellow Heavy Cruiser). You might be able to use that to your advantage to threaten them with a Fleet in Being mostly because they'd be expensive so you won't have as many of them. This keeps their fleet at home and away from your territory or battlegroup so it might be worth the tradeoff.

Additionally you could use a quick LF-equipped Corvette or Destroyer to execute a stern chase against unescorted enemy troop transports as they burn toward one of your worlds upon hearing about it. That might allow you to interdict an impending invasion force before they even enter planetary orbit, which would be your next best chance to intercept them, or seize their jumpships with boarding parties which can do the same. This dramatically increases the bar for your enemy to attack your planets as they'd need to either use Warships as transports or a Warship would be left behind to guard the jumpships against seizure.

[Primus203]

Well for the ship design LF battery. My fleet is mainly expeditionary my microstate is only about twenty five light years in radius from the capital. Though it may need to range to the nearby powers whom I trade or am allied with.

To describe my fleet needs and design context. where am I? I'm in the middle of the area of space remaining unclaimed between the Lothian League, The Illyrian Palatinate, and the Circinus Federation.
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Why is there a developed system there? The system was settled under the star league in secret and high ranking military officials personal project it was to be a large fleet anchorage that would allow the star league to put pressure on the great houses from the rear in the event of any conflict. It was to be one of several. It is unknown if any others were started.

As it would be far away from any resupply the location would need to be self sufficient with the ability to provide munitions, food, parts, dropships, and mechs at a minimum.

 A good system was found with a slightly cooler mostly earthlike world with two habitable moons one moderately and one marginally habitable and two uninhabitable. There were several other uninhabitable planets in system with three asteroid belts.

 All in all a seemingly great location for a self sufficient anchorage. The only great downside to this system was that in a shocking and curious turn of events the system was germanium poor and what germanium did exist was in minuscule concentrations and was difficult and expensive to isolate.

This was not seen as too great a downside as there were systems nearby with decent or even one rich with germanium and satellite mining facilities could be established and a stockpile kept at the anchorage.
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How have I remained undiscovered until recently? First secret project. Second the value of this system and its being chosen for this project means that the star league lied and declared it in official record to be a hazardous system with limited value and even backdated the record to look old.

Wouldn't there have been some official records though? Yes there were the thing is everything is Amaris fault. The person in charge of the project and his staff were SLDF loyalists and were either executed or died in the fighting.

The jumpships that would have brought supplies to the system were commandeered by the SLDF fleet under Kerensky and the captains knowing an unfinished anchorage so far from the fighting wouldn't be of use decided against risking the secret coming out in the process of reaching Kerensky thinking that the war would be over quickly.

The war was not over quickly and these ships were all lost in the brutal fighting on the long road to retake Earth.

No hyper pulse generator? The system was still being built the necessary infrastructure to make hpg's was not complete before the coup.

Couldn't I make a jumpship with my facilities? Yes but for the fact that the system is so germanium poor it would take a long time. At the time of our rediscovery we had managed to stockpile about thirty five thousand tons at enormous expense.
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How were we found? A Lothian league survey vessel their only one was looking for some kind of windfall to help their ailing economy. It was launching survey probes in each system.

They decided to jump into my system as a hail mary having found nothin of note on their journey and hopping the star league missed something. They did find something and the captain soiled his pants when his jumpship was painted by a SDS warship.

Taking a representative of ours to their government it was eventually agreed on that the survey ship would be given to us giving us enough germanium to build a three hundred thousand ton ship using a warship drive.

In return we would be aiding the League with infrastructure improvements increasing quality of life and material output for trade as well as one hundred twenty aerospace fighters and spare parts and thirty two battlemechs. Also first call on yards to make jumpships and a preferential rate.
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What assets do we have? The system is well developed with extraction operations all throughout the system. The system population is one and a half billion and is fairly well educated.

Access to star league tech was never lost though due to lack of some production lines some tech used is somewhat more simple or has only been recently reintroduced.

 The system initially required a large portion of the population to be used to farm due to being cut off from agromech supply but these machines and other such necessary lines were built as a priority. As such the system has a great degree of automation in menial labor and dangerous tasks such as mining leading to production output rising per person required in these fields.

It was not thought that it would take so long for someone to find them and as such production of materials continued. As such there is a large number of mechs and aerospace fighters in storage as there was no fighting and constant production there are over a thousand battlemechs and several thousand aerospace fighters. As a side note the real life group I'm with is one of those for whom canon unit numbers throughout a large part of the galaxy are to small so forces are bulked up. As such this is significant but still bellow a great power by a decent amount.

The crown jewel of our assets is that we have machine tools and haven't lost our knowledge we can set up new production lines for anything we can design even if at great expense.

Space assets are a SDS set up before contact was lost. This has been slowly expanded to keep up shipbuilding knowledge. Yards can either build or maintain a ship. One 1.5 million ton yard. Three 1.2 million ton yards. Eight 600 thousand ton, fifteen 300 thousand ton yards. These are the original there are also thirty two hundred fifty thousand ton yards produced after loss of contact for in system ships and then latter the buckler.

To produce multiple large warships is difficult even for a developed system. The only reason we can have several is that the parts for these ships were partially completed here under the star league and finished in the ensuing two hundred years waiting for their germanium to make the drive cores.
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Why my warship design doctrine is how it is. In universe it begins with the clan invasion a standard ship design would have been fine when there were no warships.

 However against a force of with Mckenna's and even heavier and more powerful ships we could only build ships at best sixty percent of the mass.

 The only ways proposed to even hope to compete were for capital firepower to be concentrated all in the nose to equal the broadside of our enemy.

The other was for the warships to carry a large amount of fighters which would be used to attempt to damage engines on the larger ships either forcing them out of formation or forcing the enemy fleet into an unfavorable position when they covered their crippled ally.

Current doctrine planned involves using echo until the enemy closes to about forty hexes then going to max thrust and passing broadside quickly with broadside specialist ships.
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How the necessary germanium and secondary materials were acquired. Clan invasion again in this instance direct contact with inner sphere and selling of large amount of mechs ,aerospace fighters, and fusion engines. Also building jumpships. We actually have more yard capacity than we can use for building and as such in the post first clan invasion contract build jumpships.
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Relations with other powers. Periphery states as long as they would not violate the basic U.S. bill of rights their all right to us. Periphery states get better rates for things that would improve civilian livelihoods and infrastructure. They also receive a discount greater than inner sphere if they can collect shipment themselves as well as a slight shipping discount.

Inner Sphere Minus House Kurita. Decent there is some friction were also salty a bit about the whole succession wars but mainly live and let live. They don't get anywhere near as good deals a periphery though.

House Kurita. Absolutely abysmal we hate them with a passion well take a job against them for a much lower rate than against any other power. This bad blood is due to multiple incidents all kuritan or kuritan inspired tech has been stolen from them for reverse engineering following this bad blood.

Clans. Disliked though not quite as badly as kurita. Our system sees it self still as star league but going back to what star league actually professed to do and be for. The  clans are far from this and not what we want for humanity.
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Goals. While rebuilding the star league would be nice its impractical in the near to medium term. Medium term goal to unite and develop the march worlds into something approaching a great power without the intent to invade the inner sphere.

Long term goal do the same to rest of periphery. Get great houses to stop fighting(considered  unlikely). Begin human galactic exploration and scientific advancement again. Basically  Eradani light horse with realistic goals and support.

[Lagrange]

I still disagree, you can close with an enemy ship, shift into broadside and wail on them just as easily, while being able to turn and roll or simply pass through with your velocity presenting fresh armor and weapons, effectively increasing your protection by 150% versus a three location forward aspect.

You have to decide here if you are optimizing for large scale combat or small scale combat.   In small scale combat, there will typically be time to roll sides and bring fresh armor to bear.  In large scale combat, an unaccommodating enemy will focus fire to the point of destruction every round (aka minute) eliminating the possibility of rolling sides.  Note also that a nose fighter can and should heavily armor the nose by design, mitigating much of the value of rolling sides at the design phase

As an example, the Kuan Yin II does 595 damage from capital weapons in the nose arc and is destroyed after about 1200 damage to the nose eliminating all nose armor, fore sides armor, and SI.  The Perdition at a similar tonnage does 324 damage from capital weapons in the broadside arcs and is destroyed after about 1300 damage to the side arc including fore-side armor, aft-side armor, and SI.   Even if you reposition the Perdition's nose capital weapons to side arcs (broadside capital weapon damage ~380) it's not clearly the winner in a high intensity engagement of say 20 v 20 where the typical outcome of each round is the count of ships eliminated.

Edit: miscounted Perdition's damage numbers, fixed.

[Primus203]

I'm glad for the constant replies I'm probably in the last stages of fleet redesign I have just a few more questions. First I was told how vulnerable the kraken-t was to ecm are non teleoperated missiles less effected or immune?

Second do warships and jumpships have a different maintenance cost percentage rate and if so what is it? These things can be annoying to find and for some reason are spread through different rule books we really need a consolidated rule book.

I had a conversation stating that ams only protects the unit its mounted on I'm guessing its different in space? If so does that mean I can lessen or omit  it from units in the center to boost capital firepower due to lower targeting tonnage penalties.

If I put my more vulnerable units in the center of the formation my armored supply and transport ships and they have ships between them and the enemy does this make them more difficult to target and hit?

In your opinion what are the best weapons minus nukes that fighters can mount to cripple capital ships especially targeting and engines.

My main air superiority fighter uses er medium lasers is this a bad choice in space? Its main variant uses an lb-x 5 this is bad in space sugesstions for a replacement weapon thirteen tons to work with.

[Lagrange]

I'm glad for the constant replies I'm probably in the last stages of fleet redesign I have just a few more questions. First I was told how vulnerable the kraken-t was to ecm are non teleoperated missiles less effected or immune?

They are unaffected, but do note the vulnerability of capital missiles to AMS.

Second do warships and jumpships have a different maintenance cost percentage rate and if so what is it? These things can be annoying to find and for some reason are spread through different rule books we really need a consolidated rule book.

If i recall correctly, warships are .1%/month.  Jumpships are lower, I believe .01%/month.  This is specified in CO but I don't have that handy.

I had a conversation stating that ams only protects the unit its mounted on I'm guessing its different in space? If so does that mean I can lessen or omit  it from units in the center to boost capital firepower due to lower targeting tonnage penalties.

Yes, it's different in space if you are using the advanced rules in SO.

If I put my more vulnerable units in the center of the formation my armored supply and transport ships and they have ships between them and the enemy does this make them more difficult to target and hit?

There are sensor shadow rules in SO which can make this happen as long as the supply/transport ships are not appreciably larger.   However, smallcraft/ASF will still be able to pass through any formation and fire on the transports, plausibly in ways which eliminate the value of sensor shadows.

In your opinion what are the best weapons minus nukes that fighters can mount to cripple capital ships especially targeting and engines.

An internal bomb bay able to hold 6 antiship missiles is scary when deployed in large formations.  All weapon slots should also be maxed out with small lasers.  If you want a repeat use weapon, I'd suggest an AC/20 or similar for damage, particularly with high speed engagements offering up to an x4 multiplier, making that effectively an AC/80.  If you want to target criticals, there's a called shots rule in SO which makes smallcraft able to leverage pulse style weapons.

My main air superiority fighter uses er medium lasers is this a bad choice in space? Its main variant uses an lb-x 5 this is bad in space sugesstions for a replacement weapon thirteen tons to work with.

Medium lasers are good although they don't have damage multiplied in a high speed engagement. 

[Primus203]

So I didn't know about the velocity damage rules if I understand this right then that means my gauss lancer second post on this page which has two improved gauss rifles capital damage 2.2 rounding down to two. At speed though this would increase to 8.8 capital damage which rounds to nine giving me if both shots hit eighteen cap damage per pass.

Or if I remove one of the gauss rifles and a er medium laser and heatsink freeing up twenty seven tons I can mount three anti ship missiles an additional thirteen tons of armor double what I had and five more tons of fuel fifty percent more.

That is if I'm understanding things right as a hundred ton fighter the lancer should get twenty bomb slots so that means I can carry three ASM which mass two tons each meaning that with six free tons on my hundred ton fighter I can carry these ASM'S am I correct?

Code: [Select]

Lancer Gauss Lancer ASM

Mass: 100 tons
Frame: Lancer
Power Plant: 200 Light Lancer
Armor: Ferro-Aluminum
Armament:
     2 ER Medium Laser
     1 Improved Heavy Gauss Rifle
     1 Laser AMS
Manufacturer: Custom Aerospace
     Primary Factory: Custom Areospace
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3065
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-E
Cost: 17,367,000 C-bills

Type: Lancer
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 100
Battle Value: 2,792

Equipment                                          Mass
Engine                        300 XL                9.5
Safe Thrust: 5
Max Thrust: 8
Structural Integrity:         10                       
Heat Sinks:                   14 [28]                 4
Fuel:                         1200                 15.0
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          465                    26

                           Armor   
                           Value   
     Nose                   140   
     Wings                116/116 
     Aft                     93   


Weapons
and Ammo                               Location   Tonnage  Heat   SRV  MRV  LRV  ERV
ER Medium Laser                          RWG       1.0      5      5    5    0    0 
Improved Heavy Gauss Rifle               NOS       20.0     2     22   22   22    0 
Laser AMS                                NOS       1.5      7      3    0    0    0 
Improved Heavy Gauss Rifle Ammo (20)     FSLG      5.0      -      -    -    -    - 
Angel ECM Suite                          FSLG      2.0      -      -    -    -    - 
Targeting Computer                       FSLG      6.0      -      -    -    -    - 
ER Medium Laser                          LWG       1.0      5      5    5    0    0 

[AlphaMirage]

That is only the case for a 'Fast' High Speed Closing Engagement, more likely its going to be a 3 (2.2*1.5) as a 'Slow' High Speed Closing Engagement is actually fairly easy to achieve with velocity rules (it basically takes only 10 minutes of 'wind up' for most ships).

Also 20 v 20 Warship fights that would be crazy Lagrange. I am figured more of an 8 v 8 scenario as that seems more likely for a 'decisive battle' that an interstellar empire might be willing to engage in. 20 v 20 is Operation: Chieftain taking on the Sol SDS level not something that you would plan for when deciding your build.

[Primus203]

Are my anti ship missile carry calculations correct though? Also I just found the internal bomb bay quirk if I'm understanding it right it would allow me to carry an extra asm for each eight tons I allot two for the missile six for the bomb slots. So with three asm on externals removing both gauss rifles leaves me with fifty four tons minus the six tons for the external asm.

This brings me to forty eight tons meaning that I can carry six internally for a total of nine if I go all in. On the flip side if I remove only one improved gauss rifle and don't go for the extra fuel, armor, and gauss ammo the three ASM design had I have twenty five tons to play with meaning three more ASM plus the three external and one ton to spend on ammo, fuel, or armor.

Also on the off note in many ways dropship seem to be a better way to launch fighters than carriers. For example the center of my fleet the carrier bellow can only launch forty fighters a turn.

Code: [Select]

Old Ironsides Light Carrier Semi Post Star League
Mass: 1,500,000 tons
Use: Light Carrier
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Introduced: 3065
Mass: 1,500,000
Battle Value: 195,908
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-F
Cost: 43,970,810,000 C-bills

Fuel: 26,500 tons (66,250)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 7
KF Drive Integrity: 30
Heat Sinks: 5200 (10400)
Structural Integrity: 120

Armor
    Nose: 804
    Fore Sides: 660/660
    Aft Sides: 588/588
    Aft: 372

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Reinforced Repair Facility (100)1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Cargo (46065.0 tons)    1 Door   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (125)           5 Doors   
    Bay 4:  Fighter (125)           5 Doors   
    Bay 5:  Fighter (125)           5 Doors   
    Bay 6:  Fighter (125)           5 Doors   
    Bay 7:  Small Craft (10)        1 Door   

Ammunition:
    1,600 rounds of Piranha ammunition (16,000 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 10
Grav Decks: 6 (250 m, 250 m, 250 m, 250 m, 250 m, 250 m)
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 150
Crew:  78 officers, 342 enlisted/non-rated, 140 gunners, 1050 bay personnel, 150 marines, 100 BA marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Mobile Hyperpulse Generators (Mobile HPG)
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
    1 Naval C3
3,600 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                      Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (4,556 Heat)
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                       900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                       900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                       900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                       900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
4 Naval PPC (Heavy)                       900  60(600) 60(600) 60(600) 60(600)  Capital PPC
FRS/FLS (772 Heat)
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
4 Naval Laser 55                          340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Naval Laser 55                          340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
RBS/LBS (736 Heat)
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
4 Naval Laser 55                          340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Naval Laser 55                          340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
ARS/ALS (772 Heat)
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
1 Sub-Capital Missile Launcher (Piranha)   9   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)     0(0)   Sub-Capital Missile
    Piranha Ammo (100 shots)
4 Naval Laser 55                          340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Naval Laser 55                          340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
Aft (1,076 Heat)
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
2 Laser AMS                               14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
4 Naval Laser 55                          340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Naval Laser 55                          340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 Naval Laser 55                          340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital LaserBut its ten dropships micro carrier dropships each with seven doors can between them launch one hundred fourty fighters per turn.

Code: [Select]

Old Iron Micro Carrier Dropship
Type: Military Spheriod
Mass: 50,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Introduced: 3065
Mass: 50,000
Battle Value: 17,864
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-E
Cost: 3,061,716,000 C-bills

Fuel: 6,000 tons (60,000)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Heat Sinks: 500 (1000)
Structural Integrity: 125

Armor
    Nose: 1465
    Sides: 1241/1241
    Aft: 1017

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (70)            7 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Cargo (5500.0 tons)     1 Door   

Ammunition:
None

Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  8 officers, 6 enlisted/non-rated, 38 gunners, 140 bay personnel

Notes: Mounts 450 tons of heavy ferro-aluminum armor.

Weapons:                    Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)              Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (152 Heat)
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
1 Sub-Capital Laser /1  24   1(10)   1(10)   1(10)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
1 Sub-Capital Laser /1  24   1(10)   1(10)   1(10)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
1 Sub-Capital Laser /1  24   1(10)   1(10)   1(10)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
1 Sub-Capital Laser /1  24   1(10)   1(10)   1(10)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
RS/LS Fwd (152 Heat)
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
1 Sub-Capital Laser /1  24   1(10)   1(10)   1(10)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
1 Sub-Capital Laser /1  24   1(10)   1(10)   1(10)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
1 Sub-Capital Laser /1  24   1(10)   1(10)   1(10)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
1 Sub-Capital Laser /1  24   1(10)   1(10)   1(10)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
RS/LS Aft (152 Heat)
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
1 Sub-Capital Laser /1  24   1(10)   1(10)   1(10)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
1 Sub-Capital Laser /1  24   1(10)   1(10)   1(10)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
1 Sub-Capital Laser /1  24   1(10)   1(10)   1(10)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
1 Sub-Capital Laser /1  24   1(10)   1(10)   1(10)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
Aft (152 Heat)
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
1 Sub-Capital Laser /1  24   1(10)   1(10)   1(10)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
1 Sub-Capital Laser /1  24   1(10)   1(10)   1(10)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
1 Sub-Capital Laser /1  24   1(10)   1(10)   1(10)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
1 Sub-Capital Laser /1  24   1(10)   1(10)   1(10)    0(0)  Sub-Capital Laser
2 Laser AMS             14    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         This means that by augmenting my fighter launch this way in three turns I can launch 560 ASM armed bomber and 500 air superiority fighters. Note I'm including the rest of the fleet for the air superiority numbers. Note this still would leave around 320 ASM bombers and 300 fighters waiting to launch.

Also of note this is after I heavily reduced numbers on most ships across the board with advice from this forum. 700 of these fighters are last minute additions by changing the dropship to this new micro carrier and 500 are from the fleet carrier. The rest are due to everything carrying fighters buckler 16 aero 8 doors, arrowhead 24 aero 12 doors, ballista 100 aero 18 doors. This is not counting fleet supply ships and transports several of which carry some for protection.

As a side note do search and rescue small craft require any special gear? How much space do recovered people take up if anyone knows?

Also does anyone here use space mines and if so are they any good?

[Lagrange]

So I didn't know about the velocity damage rules if I understand this right then that means my gauss lancer second post on this page which has two improved gauss rifles capital damage 2.2 rounding down to two. At speed though this would increase to 8.8 capital damage which rounds to nine giving me if both shots hit eighteen cap damage per pass.

Right.

Or if I remove one of the gauss rifles and a er medium laser and heatsink freeing up twenty seven tons I can mount three anti ship missiles an additional thirteen tons of armor double what I had and five more tons of fuel fifty percent more.

That is if I'm understanding things right as a hundred ton fighter the lancer should get twenty bomb slots so that means I can carry three ASM which mass two tons each meaning that with six free tons on my hundred ton fighter I can carry these ASM'S am I correct?

I believe you must allocate 1 ton of internal cargo per bomb slot, so 3 ASMs internally require 18 tons of cargo.   Personally, I'd suggest going for 6 ASMs (= maximum internal launch in a round) on an omni fighter.  Then, you can have a space-superiority fighter that doubles as a capital ship killer.

W.r.t. your dropship, I'd suggest going up to 100k tons if you really want to max the number of fighters carried.  Dropships are also good carriers because you can afford to spend much more mass on engines.  Personally, I like my carriers to be much faster so they aren't as easily subject to swarming.

That is only the case for a 'Fast' High Speed Closing Engagement, more likely its going to be a 3 (2.2*1.5) as a 'Slow' High Speed Closing Engagement is actually fairly easy to achieve with velocity rules (it basically takes only 10 minutes of 'wind up' for most ships).

Right.  'Fast' high speed engagements are most usable against relatively fixed defenses.  Use against warships implies they are used in a particularly defensive or lazy way.

Also 20 v 20 Warship fights that would be crazy Lagrange. I am figured more of an 8 v 8 scenario as that seems more likely for a 'decisive battle' that an interstellar empire might be willing to engage in. 20 v 20 is Operation: Chieftain taking on the Sol SDS level not something that you would plan for when deciding your build.

Situations vary here, but since space allows near-perfect scaling of forces there are real returns to massing force.  The only AE weapon in space combat is a screen launcher, so it would be amusing to see ships massing them at large scale.

[Daryk]

Using JumpShips as transports will always be cheaper than adding docking collars to WarShips.

[AlphaMirage]

As a side note do search and rescue small craft require any special gear? How much space do recovered people take up if anyone knows?

Also does anyone here use space mines and if so are they any good?

They don't 'require' additional gear, I however typically equip my small craft with an active probe and paramedic equipment which does aid the roll to recover and heal them. Pilots take up one person slot, normally I have a jump infantry bay in my boarding/SAR craft so it can carry 21 people easy for long enough to make it to a more spacious vessel. SAR will be either be difficult or easy if you are deploying hundreds of fighters, particularly the amount you are talking about, just one of those massed task forces might overmatch even the Star League in its prime and they had thousands of Warships.

Space Mines are 'weird' the roll to avoid them is to easy, in my opinion it should be 2 higher, but that's only because I want to think of space mines as active seekers. They are basically the second area of effect weapon beside the screen launcher. That said being able to sling them into oncoming (or massed) enemies at speed is funny and it might cause some damage so its not like its necessarily wasted tonnage.

[Daryk]

Why not use a Foot Infantry bay for 30 racks instead? ???

[AlphaMirage]

Why not use a Foot Infantry bay for 30 racks instead? ???

Space Suits are bulky and my Espatiers wear Marine Combat Armor. Its my fluff Daryk, it makes sense in my mind.

[Daryk]

That makes sense... more power to you! :)

[Primus203]

Alright coming near the final fleet revisions. One of the main ones is fighters. Max number of fighters carried is what can be launched by the ship in five turns with the doors allotted to it.

This means the carrier is loosing three hundred fighters but regaining 280 from getting four more microcarrier dropships. I've also finalized the bomber.

Using an internal bomb bay for less velocity penalties the lancer has forty eight tons set aside for 6 ASM it then rips out every gun the targeting computer and every heatsink not in the reactor.

By doing this the armor is doubled to twenty six tons of ferro aluminum so to hopefully guarantee the bomber will get through. They will rely on the air superiority fighters for fighter protection.

Code: [Select]

Space Lancer Bomber

Mass: 100 tons
Frame: Lancer
Power Plant: 200 Light Lancer
Armor: Ferro-Aluminum
Armament:
     1 Laser AMS
Manufacturer: Custom Aerospace
     Primary Factory: Custom Areospace
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3065
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-F-E
Cost: 15,799,500 C-bills

Type: Space Lancer
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 100
Battle Value: 1,593

Equipment                                          Mass
Engine                        300 XL                9.5
Safe Thrust: 5
Max Thrust: 8
Structural Integrity:         10                       
Heat Sinks:                   10 [20]                 0
Fuel:                         800                  10.0
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor (Ferro)          465                    26

                           Armor   
                           Value   
     Nose                   140   
     Wings                116/116 
     Aft                     93   


Weapons
and Ammo              Location   Tonnage  Heat   SRV  MRV  LRV  ERV
Laser AMS               NOS       1.5      7      3    0    0    0 
Angel ECM Suite         FSLG      2.0      -      -    -    -    -  I use meklab as a design aid but I have no idea how to add design quirks. Its supposed to have the stable perk and the quick reload perk as long as the bomb loadout isn't changed.

Also how long does it take to reload a fighter this will help me decide on how much reloads and fuel to keep on a carrier. I currently carry enough reloads for five sorties. In the space lancers case this is currently thirty tons per sortie ten tons of fuel, twelve tons for six ASM, and eight tons of replacement parts and armor for battle damage.

[AlphaMirage]

This is from my TacOps. Minimum 10 turns/minutes, roll 1d6 adding 1 for each ton/shot beyond the first, on 1-7 that reload is a success, 8-11 it fails, 12+ it explodes. If you try to reload say 6 missiles/10 minutes you are not going to damage your carriers but are very likely to fail in that reloading attempt. During this attempt you have plenty of time to top off fuel.

MegaMek doesn't do quirks, they have no effect on construction rules.

[Lagrange]

I believe 6ASM require only 36 tons, not 48.