Author Topic: ShadowRun 6th ed  (Read 2763 times)

StoneRhino

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ShadowRun 6th ed
« on: 13 February 2020, 04:03:55 »

I was just wondering about the starter box and the rules book. On the CGL store it mentions that if you buy the hard copy that you get the pdf for free. Is this offer, the free pdf, true of books that are purchased at a local shop? If so how do I get the pdf?

I want to buy the hardcopy to have, support the local shop, but I'm sure that I read that there was already an update to the pdf and hate the idea of tons of errata to shuffle through.

Kentares

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #1 on: 13 February 2020, 17:21:06 »
Theres going to be an 6th edition!?!?! Damn... just the other day (20 years ago IIRC) I was playing 2nd edition. Im getting old... fast...
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Daryk

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #2 on: 13 February 2020, 17:31:44 »
3rd Edition was my favorite.  They really lost me with 4th, and I only flipped through 5th in the store.  Nothing I've heard has made me want to check out 6th.

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #3 on: 13 February 2020, 18:51:28 »
Reading the conversation section on the drivethrurpg reviews scared me off of buying in any form for at minimum the near future

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Daryk

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #4 on: 13 February 2020, 19:06:43 »
And that confirms my hesitation... Thanks!  :thumbsup:

Simon Landmine

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #5 on: 13 February 2020, 19:24:49 »
Friend of mine played a game of 6th, and they and their GM had a lot of trouble with even something as basic as chargen - in some ways it seemed to assume prior knowledge (e.g. they said they couldn't find anywhere where it set the starting Essence at 6).
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Daryk

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #6 on: 13 February 2020, 19:26:00 »
Ouch... that's quite the oversight for any SR game.

Lone-Wolf

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #7 on: 14 February 2020, 14:03:02 »
Friend of mine played a game of 6th, and they and their GM had a lot of trouble with even something as basic as chargen - in some ways it seemed to assume prior knowledge (e.g. they said they couldn't find anywhere where it set the starting Essence at 6).

I bought some 5th Edition books and the Essence thing bugged me too. You see, in Cyberpunk 2020 it is clearly said that if your humanity or so drops to zero you become a mass murdering killing machine. But in S5R there is only that the less Essence you have the people around you sense that there is something wrong with you. A colleague said that in her group low Essence means you just sit around until something combat related happens but you are not a mass murderer. And in Cyberpunk you can regain your humanity.

And what also bugs me, is that I never found data regarding the bugs. You know values for a weak /medium/strong insectspirit, data for a weak/medium/strong human and how the according to the rules the two merge and what are the endvalues of a possessed human.

But the thing that makes me the most angry is that S6R is not a cleaned up version.

Shadowrun 5: You have the main rulebook with the five main races (human, dwarf, elf, orc,troll). If you want to play one of the subtypes, shapeshanger or an Infected you need another book. For Drakes , yep, you need another book. And if you want to play a certain shapeshanger of an animal that lives only in Germany, you need one of the Germany sourcebooks.
Then there are books for equipment, verhicles, Magic users, Deckers, Assassins. And in all of these books you find data of weapons etc scattered about and so you need a lot of books.
The cleaned up version would be:

One book for the basic background story and the rules.
One book for character creation. Yes, ALL types of playable characters including ALL advantages/disadvanteges, special rules for certain races, just ALL of it in this book.
One book for equipment, cars etc and of course ALL rules for modifying said equipment.
One book for the Matrix including ALL rules.
One book for combat with all special rules.
One book for Magic including explanations like what are the values of a weak/medium/strong insectspirit and what are the values of a weak/medium/strong human and how does the takeover process go on gamerules wise and what are the values afterwards. You know "Any plan shall be looked over by my 5 year old advisor and any errors or discrepancies he sees are to be corrected NOW! (Rules for Evil Overlords)

So, my S5R characcter is an elvish rigger with certain advantages/disadvantages, weapons and equipment (not in the main rulebook) and now I have to either stay with S5R or wait about 5 years till all the books are brought up to S6R and I have to buy them again.

Ruger

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #8 on: 14 February 2020, 15:22:33 »
So, my S5R characcter is an elvish rigger with certain advantages/disadvantages, weapons and equipment (not in the main rulebook) and now I have to either stay with S5R or wait about 5 years till all the books are brought up to S6R and I have to buy them again.

Just curious: how is that different from most other RPG’s?

At least big name ones?

Ruger
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Hellraiser

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #9 on: 14 February 2020, 15:48:41 »

One book for the basic background story and the rules.
One book for character creation. Yes, ALL types of playable characters including ALL advantages/disadvanteges, special rules for certain races, just ALL of it in this book.
One book for equipment, cars etc and of course ALL rules for modifying said equipment.
One book for the Matrix including ALL rules.
One book for combat with all special rules.
One book for Magic including explanations like what are the values of a weak/medium/strong insectspirit and what are the values of a weak/medium/strong human and how does the takeover process go on gamerules wise and what are the values afterwards. You know "Any plan shall be looked over by my 5 year old advisor and any errors or discrepancies he sees are to be corrected NOW! (Rules for Evil Overlords)

I see where your going here but then you STILL have to own multiple books to be able to play 1 character.

Keep it semi-simple a character with NO Matrix acess, and Combat Adept, is still going to want the Gear Book, the Magic Book, the Combat/Weapons Book, the Rule book & the Character Creation book.

At least with the Core Rule Book you can play a basic game for a year or 2 while other expanded rule books come out.

The issue I have with SR that they end up putting out about 4 "expansion" books for every sub-class.

Its not JUST the "Magic" book.

Its the CORE rule book,  then the MAIN Magic Book, then the DARK magic book, then the EXPANDED Magic Book for all the stuff that wouldn't fit in MAIN, etc etc etc.

Similar to how the Samurai gets a MORE GUNS book and a MORE CYBER book & a MORE COMBAT OPTIONS book & a full on MIL SPEC book or a Super Advanced Prototype New THIS/THAT book


5th Edition's biggest problem was the Editors SUCKED and seemed to just do whole sale copy/paste from 4th edition.

Otherwise I liked it.


Sadly from what I've read, 6th seems to have many of the same issues of incomplete editing & things not being clear in the rules.
« Last Edit: 14 February 2020, 15:54:11 by Hellraiser »
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garhkal

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #10 on: 14 February 2020, 15:48:59 »
Wow..  I was given the 4th ed book, brand new about 6 years ago..  Surprised they're already to a 6th edition.
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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #11 on: 14 February 2020, 15:49:28 »
Theres going to be an 6th edition!?!?! Damn... just the other day (20 years ago IIRC) I was playing 2nd edition. Im getting old... fast...

Its been out for a long while actually.

And 2nd was probably more like 25 years ago, LOL :)
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Kentares

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #12 on: 14 February 2020, 18:57:48 »

And 2nd was probably more like 25 years ago, LOL :)

18 years according to Wikipedia (I have the books stored in the attic in my parents house).

...in Cyberpunk 2020 it is clearly said that if your humanity or so drops to zero you become a mass murdering killing machine. But in S5R there is only that the less Essence you have the people around you sense that there is something wrong with you. A colleague said that in her group low Essence means you just sit around until something combat related happens but you are not a mass murderer. And in Cyberpunk you can regain your humanity.

In 2nd edition (IIRC) specifically says that as soon as Essence gets to zero the character turns into a psycho that can go into a killing rampage for no apparent reason (also it becomes an NPC controlled by the GM).
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Daryk

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #13 on: 14 February 2020, 19:14:14 »
18 years according to Wikipedia (I have the books stored in the attic in my parents house).
*snip*
That's definitely wrong... the Third Edition book I just pulled off my shelf has a copyright date of 1998...

Hellraiser

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #14 on: 14 February 2020, 19:20:15 »
18 years according to Wikipedia (I have the books stored in the attic in my parents house).

In 2nd edition (IIRC) specifically says that as soon as Essence gets to zero the character turns into a psycho that can go into a killing rampage for no apparent reason (also it becomes an NPC controlled by the GM).

That's definitely wrong... the Third Edition book I just pulled off my shelf has a copyright date of 1998...

I'm thinking he forgot to carry the 1 or something.

28 Years ago for 2nd edition
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Hellraiser

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #15 on: 14 February 2020, 19:22:13 »
I actually thought Essence 0 characters just plain died.

That's why it was important for a samurai to keep at least .01 or something like that.

And its why Cyber-Mancy Magic was used to keep alive a Zombie-Adept with too much Cyberware on them.

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Daryk

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #16 on: 14 February 2020, 19:23:49 »
It was definitely that way in the older editions at least (the ones before cybermancy/cyberzombies).

Von Jankmon

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #17 on: 14 February 2020, 23:29:38 »
Why do we need a 6th edition?  I don't have and Shadowrun product since 1st, and only played 1st, but a friend invested in 5th and bought many books.  It was expensive.
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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #18 on: 15 February 2020, 01:56:10 »
Why do we need a 6th edition?  I don't have and Shadowrun product since 1st, and only played 1st, but a friend invested in 5th and bought many books.  It was expensive.

We didn't IMHO.

Then again, we didn't need a 4th either.

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Daryk

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #19 on: 15 February 2020, 04:59:15 »
Agreed!

StoneRhino

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #20 on: 15 February 2020, 10:53:33 »
Talk about herding cats. All those response and not one even tried to answer the question that I asked.  ???

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #21 on: 15 February 2020, 12:37:34 »
From what I can tell from the DTRPG comments:

There is a reprinting of the book coming but it only includes 2019 errata (there’s a lot more)

If you’re going in on it, I’d  recommend getting the pdf and waiting until a printing of the book is issued that addresses the errata concerns adequately

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Lorcan Nagle

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #22 on: 15 February 2020, 15:21:42 »
I was just wondering about the starter box and the rules book. On the CGL store it mentions that if you buy the hard copy that you get the pdf for free. Is this offer, the free pdf, true of books that are purchased at a local shop? If so how do I get the pdf?

I want to buy the hardcopy to have, support the local shop, but I'm sure that I read that there was already an update to the pdf and hate the idea of tons of errata to shuffle through.

The Print and PDF package deal is a CGL webshop exclusive.
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Kentares

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #23 on: 15 February 2020, 17:15:44 »
I'm thinking he forgot to carry the 1 or something.

28 Years ago for 2nd edition

Youre right of course. My brain was making the math like if we were in 2010... so I played 2nd edtion 25 years ago for 4/5 years.
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Lone-Wolf

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #24 on: 16 February 2020, 14:05:41 »
Ruger
You are right. Every successful RPG is like that. But there are some who learn. Take for instance Vampire The Masquerade. In the first editions it was like that:
Main rulebook: the seven Camarilla clans
Players Handbook: the four neutral clans and the Bloodlines
Storytellers Handbook: the two Sabbat clans

Then came Vampire Dark Ages and all 13 clans in the main rulebook. And the Bloodlines were in the Players Handbook.

And the latest Edition of VTM (5th I believe) has the 13 clans in the main rulebook.

So, the game producers can learn - if they want to.

Hellraiser
I can understand your point but if I buy the main rulebook it says on the backside (regardless of the RPG in question): ALL you need to play.
So for me that means that in regard to S5R I have the information for ALL types of characters available (main races and subgroups, Drakes, infected etc.) and of course the necessary equipment.
So for me it is I see it as a false and / or misleading advertisement.
And yes, ONE rulebook for magic etc should be enough.
As I wrote: Rules for evil overlords: Let a five year look over it and any errors he spots must be corrected.
Just imagine the game companies would listen to us players and instead of bringing out book after book needing pages of errata they just sort it out and then bring out ONE organized, clean and errorfree book.

And as I am from Germany I heard that Pegasus who publishes the german version of Shadowrun, translated the main rulebbok and let their own staff look at the book for errors, asking Catalyst for errata and only then did they print the first batch of the german SS6R main rulebook.

Incomplete rules: Yes, when I looked at the healing rules I asked myself: OK, lets have no luck. You have used up all dice but are still one box mental damage. So as you have exhausted all means you can never start to heal the body damage.
And the Rigger character in the S5R main rulebook sure had a lot of drones - but no programmes to control them.
Before I made my elvish rigger I asked my colleague (I am a fan of vampires) if my character could later be turned into either a Banshee or Vampire. She said yes. But the rules are not clear in regard to magic. Does my character turn into one of the three types of mages or can she not because she was never a mage to start with?

Kentares
I looked at the S5R rulebook very closely, but there was nothing like that in it. And a german S5R internet page just said Essence 0 = Dead.

I was wondering: Would I be allowed to start a topic in this forum where I ask how the RPG / Boardgame / tabeltop game companies and communities would change IF the state would step in with RICO (thats how it is called in the USA if I am right, right?) / anti-prey/exploit laws and force the game companies to produce cleaned up versions of their products (ok, the first edition can be as unorganized as they want, but the following editions MUST be cleaned up)?

Kentares

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #25 on: 16 February 2020, 16:40:14 »
Kentares
I looked at the S5R rulebook very closely, but there was nothing like that in it. And a german S5R internet page just said Essence 0 = Dead.

I was talking about 2nd edition. Dont know if they changed that in later editions (I dont question your knowledge of 5th edition - I believe what you say).
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Simon Landmine

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #26 on: 16 February 2020, 19:57:51 »
Now you've got me considering reaching for my copies to see what each edition (hardcopy of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, softcopy of 5th (which I've not actually looked at in that much detail)) says about Essence! Drat!

(Don't forget that, in the earlier versions, low Essence also made healing more difficult - especially the magical healing so many teams relied on! I always thought that an Essence of 0 meant death, but I might have just glossed that!)

Oh well, I did it, at least for 3e (because it's in the bookcase behind me, so I didn't need to get up) ...

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Essence cannot be lowered to 0 or less, though it may be less than 1. An Essence of 0 means you're dead, and no one can play a dead character.
(SR3, p56)

As for the infamous cascading splatbook syndrome, there's no way to produce a core rules that includes all of the optional extras, unless you want it to be a couple of feet thick. Or more, thinking about my bookcase upstairs.

However, the corebook would be correct in stating "All you need to play". It does have everything you need to play the game - at least at the basic level. You've got the most common races, the basics of magic, the most common chrome, the most common weapons, etc. So with just the core, you can play in the SR world. Not everyone wants playable Drakes, or playable Infected, or all of the extra 'ware, or the complex ritual spell stuff, or the detailed vehicle customisation rules. So it leaves it open to the playing group to pick and choose the extras that they want, or don't want. Those people who do want it (or have an unfortunate sourcebook addiction, like me), end up buying the additional books. But you don't have to, to play something that's still SR.

If everything for an edition of SR was to be included in the one book, then it would be too heavy to ship, and too expensive for people to buy. And this is a business - if people can't afford the product, the company can't sell the product. (We'll ignore, for now, the fact that, if your product gets a reputation for missing key details, you also can't sell your product.)

And they could have combined their several magic sourcebooks into one, but then it would be several times the size, and several times the cost, which makes it harder to sell as an incremental purchase.

Which is also another reason for the additional sourcebooks coming out ... if the one book is all they ever need, then there's nothing more that you can sell them ...

However, I very much agree about the errata - it seems that these days, more companies are treating the initial release as a beta version, and waiting for the purchasers to spot the errors. If I buy a rulebook, I want to be able to use it then, not wait a year for all of the errors to be spotted and then have to try to find and download an errata sheet (or volume).

(I'm referring to actual errors here, not amendments to the system mechanics - those should have been tested and worked out in advance, and any major change to the system really demands a new edition, IMHO - and should therefore be something that is a last resort - although I still remember the apology in the back of SR2 when that came out pretty soon after SR1.)

In summary - I don't have an issue with sourcebook libraries, but that might just be a generational thing, but I do have an issue with shoddy products full of errors.
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StoneRhino

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #27 on: 16 February 2020, 22:09:18 »
The Print and PDF package deal is a CGL webshop exclusive.

Thanks for the response, I'll probably order it soon since I started asking around to see if people would be interested in joining a game. :thumbsup:

StoneRhino

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #28 on: 16 February 2020, 22:13:12 »
From what I can tell from the DTRPG comments:

There is a reprinting of the book coming but it only includes 2019 errata (there’s a lot more)

If you’re going in on it, I’d  recommend getting the pdf and waiting until a printing of the book is issued that addresses the errata concerns adequately

By the time that printing is released there will likely be even more errata  ;D I probably buy at least the pdf soon so that I can get a game started up, then buy the corrected edition so at least it has some of the errata.

thanks for the response :thumbsup:

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Re: ShadowRun 6th ed
« Reply #29 on: 24 February 2020, 21:29:57 »
So have they fixed SR6?  I played guy who ran SR5 in Battletech setting without the magic or extensive use of cybernetics/rigging.  It seem to work but he had add some stuff to work.
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