Author Topic: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z  (Read 87839 times)

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #30 on: 05 April 2017, 17:38:35 »
There's a mention of Invasion-corridor Society elements, but only an offhanded remark.  And well, it's not like the Clans ever successfully exterminated the Bandit Caste despite trying, so survivors can still be out there.
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truetanker

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #31 on: 06 April 2017, 20:25:29 »
Besides the Royals and the few IS -( C ) class refits, do you think the Society would have any of the SLDF in Exile tech, pre Operation: Klondike?

Including the Pentagon tech and pre-clan versions of them.

TT

( By IS -( C ) I mean examples: Warhammer-6R ( C ) and Marauder-3R ( C ). Also note that the Marauder-2R is an upgrade of the 1R Royal. )
« Last Edit: 06 April 2017, 20:27:44 by truetanker »
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Sjhernan3060

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #32 on: 07 April 2017, 11:05:45 »
I don't see why not - I am sure a multitude of sins where covered by them excuse of " we holding on to this for testing"

Maingunnery

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #33 on: 07 April 2017, 11:11:00 »

With sufficient amount of time I would assume that they would have refurbished them into Warhammer Z's.  ;)
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(SMD)MadCow

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Re:
« Reply #34 on: 07 April 2017, 11:22:12 »
Too bad they never developed an Improved Arrow IV, or an Arrow V.

truetanker

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil VolA4 cano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #35 on: 07 April 2017, 14:30:59 »
A4 only weighs about 12 tons + ammo.

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
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Maingunnery

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil VolA4 cano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #36 on: 07 April 2017, 16:21:49 »
A4 only weighs about 12 tons + ammo.

TT
Longer range would be nice, 12 maps perhaps  >:D
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glitterboy2098

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #37 on: 07 April 2017, 19:23:55 »
A4 Cluster Improved EMP munition.  >:D

(SMD)MadCow

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil VolA4 cano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #38 on: 08 April 2017, 01:26:38 »
A4 only weighs about 12 tons + ammo.

TT

?? Improved doesn't mean less weight, all the improved versions of existing equipment expands functionality, usually with some trade off. For example:
iFASCAM - instead of 1 hex of 30, choose 3 consecutive hexes  of 10
iGuided - reduce range for more single target damage
iAOE - reduce range for more AOE damage
and maybe the improved launcher takes up more crits.

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #39 on: 10 April 2017, 12:52:31 »
Would Field Artillery Scaterable Remote Senors be useful? The CEWS ought to be able to read them no problem right?

Maingunnery

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #40 on: 10 April 2017, 13:01:29 »
Would Field Artillery Scaterable Remote Senors be useful? The CEWS ought to be able to read them no problem right?
Remote sensors weight almost nothing, so let them be combined with a normal mine field, making an interactive minefield.

Mines: An enemy Mech weighting at 60 tons just stepped into the minefield, you want us to detonate?
You: Wait for it.....
Mines: He is at the center
You: Detonate!
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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #41 on: 10 April 2017, 19:25:24 »

iArrow V Cluster -- Like FASCAM, but instead of releasing mines, fires LB-X bomblets for critting and AI damage.  Use with Arrow IV Homing is obvious.

iArrow V Top Attack -- Like Arrow IV Homing, but rolls on the punch hit location table.  Probably reduce damage to 10 points so probability of decapitation/cockpit kill is not too high/automatic. 

iATM Top Attack -- Rolls on the punch hit location table.  Maybe halves damage so probability of decapitation/cockpit kill is not too high/automatic.  (Per ER 2750 and other fluff, the SLDF should have had "Headhunter" LRMs and SRMs with this capability.)

FWIW...

« Last Edit: 10 April 2017, 20:45:44 by Natasha Kerensky »
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #42 on: 10 April 2017, 19:36:02 »
Would Field Artillery Scaterable Remote Senors be useful? The CEWS ought to be able to read them no problem right?

Yes.  With the Nova CEWS' active probe capabilities, the Osteon and Septicemia should be able to monitor up to two sensors at a time at least.

It's actually a little surprising that remote sensor dispensers made no appearance on any canon Society designs given the indirect fire capabilities of iATMs.  Indirectly firing iATMs and LRMs (like from the Sprite) from behind intervening terrain (and falling back through more sensors and terrain) would have been a good tactic to preserve Society hardware and upset/frustrate Clan Warrior assumptions.

Even if the indirect fire didn't connect often, Clan Warriors would be tempted to waste shots on the sensors, helping take fire away from Society protos and other Society units in the Warriors' faces.

Society should also have made extensive use of LRM Thunder, and reverse-engineered the Leaguers' TAG-following LRMs.  Maybe Narc, too.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Maingunnery

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #43 on: 11 April 2017, 11:33:56 »

What about genuine multi-purpose LRM ammo, so that they have to separate torpedo launcher pods?
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Crow

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #44 on: 12 April 2017, 07:05:12 »
I mean you can always design a remote sensor layer using the support vehicle rules as long as you're not planning on using it in direct combat, right? Nobody is going to call that munchy...

Asymmetric warfare is the name of the game.
« Last Edit: 12 April 2017, 07:07:48 by Crow »
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(SMD)MadCow

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #45 on: 12 April 2017, 08:44:21 »
Yeah, but missiles are cooler.

Crow

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #46 on: 12 April 2017, 09:06:14 »
Yeah, but missiles are cooler.

Sure, I suppose. But aesthetics isn't going to win battles.

The Society did not shy away from using mines, missiles, artillery, indirect fire, booby traps, smoke, ambushes, physical attacks, etc. (to say nothing of computer and genetic viruses and mutant ablative foot troops) in order to win.
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(SMD)MadCow

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #47 on: 12 April 2017, 11:11:38 »
Sure, I suppose. But aesthetics isn't going to win battles.

The Society did not shy away from using mines, missiles, artillery, indirect fire, booby traps, smoke, ambushes, physical attacks, etc. (to say nothing of computer and genetic viruses and mutant ablative foot troops) in order to win.

Let me rephrase:
Missles, as the delivery system for such components as remote senors and mines being fired indirectly by an improved Arrow IV launcher, are cooler.
And quite possibly more effective and efficient than designing a vehicle that cant perform in combat and needs a multi person crew that needs to be trained.

Crow

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #48 on: 12 April 2017, 14:00:23 »
Let me rephrase:
Missles, as the delivery system for such components as remote senors and mines being fired indirectly by an improved Arrow IV launcher, are cooler.
And quite possibly more effective and efficient than designing a vehicle that cant perform in combat and needs a multi person crew that needs to be trained.

What do you think is the best TAGing platform available to the Society? The Cephalus Prime, maybe?
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truetanker

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #49 on: 12 April 2017, 18:38:15 »
What about genuine multi-purpose LRM ammo, so that they have to separate torpedo launcher pods?

Well a little fluff and some subtraction of Missile per tonnage, we can get:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Multi-Purpose_Missile
2x Weight per shot

SO meaning :
120 LRM = 1 ton NOW: 60 LRM = 1 ton
100 SRM = 1 ton NOW: 50 SRM = 1ton

or just halve the ammo per ton to use dual-purpose Missile/Torpedo ammo.

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
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(SMD)MadCow

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #50 on: 13 April 2017, 16:11:11 »
Now which ones can deploy from unxer water and hit land/air targets?

Maingunnery

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #51 on: 13 April 2017, 16:31:00 »
Now which ones can deploy from unxer water and hit land/air targets?
The dual purpose missiles from truetanker are likely your best bet.

An ammo reduction is a hefty penalty, I myself was thinking of single-purpose (Torpedo mode only) with a c-bill penalty (x 1.5).
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glitterboy2098

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #52 on: 13 April 2017, 17:40:15 »
given there are dual-environment missiles already around for BA, mech compatible versions seem reasonable. and they would seem to fit the hit-and-run, dirty tricks approach of the Society.
« Last Edit: 13 April 2017, 17:44:24 by glitterboy2098 »

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #53 on: 18 April 2017, 19:13:55 »

Crazy thought...

Canon indicates that some Clan totem animals, like the Jade Falcon and Smoke Jaguar, were genetically modified by the Scientist Caste (or their SLDF forbears).  It would have been interesting to see the Society take this work to the next level and turn the Clan totem animals against the Warrior Caste. 

Fire Mandrills and Ice Hellions big and fast enough to knock Elemental battle armor around.  Burrocks big and aggressive enough to spit armor-corroding mucus at battle armor and mechs and swallow Elementals whole (a la Dune).  Ghost Bears big enough to knock protomechs to the ground.  Diamond Sharks big enough to compromise the environmental sealing on battlemechs in underwater combat.  Etc.

Not terribly practical on the TW battlefield, but certainly interesting for AToW.  Maybe some nutty Society members with genetic terraforming backgrounds could have developed such monstrosities as a psychological weapon to be wielded against the Warrior Caste more than anything else.

FWIW...

"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #54 on: 18 April 2017, 19:17:11 »

Has anyone looked at whether the AToW bonuses from Society mutagenic virotherapies and/or combat drugs (WoR, p. 219-223) could have an impact on TW infantry stats?  I'm not familiar enough with AToW to do any conversions off the top of my head and am hoping that someone has done my homework for me.

For example, would the "Exoskeleton Adaptation" mutation grant a mutant Society infantryman two points of TW damage, instead of one (before adding armor kits, PALs, or battle armor suits)?  Maybe in combination with the "Robust Augmentation" or "Muscle Enhancement" mutations and/or the "Focus" or "Rage-C" drugs?

Would the "Articulation Augmentation" mutation grant a mutant Society infantryman a TW gunnery skill bonus?  Maybe in combination with the "Feralize" drug?

And could the "Fatigue Resistance" mutation grant a mutant Society infantryman an additional hex of TW movement?  Maybe in combination with the "Qwikstim-C" or "Rage-C" drugs?

Maybe not.  Even an Elemental is just another infantryman when outside his battle armor suit under TW rules.  But I was hoping that some of these mutations and drugs are extreme enough to affect the much less granular TW infantry stats.

Would be a shame if these mutations and drugs only affect AToW play and have no impact on TW beyond whether quad protomechs can be piloted or not.

Thanks much for any help.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Sjhernan3060

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #55 on: 18 April 2017, 20:00:16 »
Has anyone looked at whether the AToW bonuses from Society mutagenic virotherapies and/or combat drugs (WoR, p. 219-223) could have an impact on TW infantry stats?  I'm not familiar enough with AToW to do any conversions off the top of my head and am hoping that someone has done my homework for me.

For example, would the "Exoskeleton Adaptation" mutation grant a mutant Society infantryman two points of TW damage, instead of one (before adding armor kits, PALs, or battle armor suits)?  Maybe in combination with the "Robust Augmentation" or "Muscle Enhancement" mutations and/or the "Focus" or "Rage-C" drugs?

Would the "Articulation Augmentation" mutation grant a mutant Society infantryman a TW gunnery skill bonus?  Maybe in combination with the "Feralize" drug?

And could the "Fatigue Resistance" mutation grant a mutant Society infantryman an additional hex of TW movement?  Maybe in combination with the "Qwikstim-C" or "Rage-C" drugs?

Maybe not.  Even an Elemental is just another infantryman when outside his battle armor suit under TW rules.  But I was hoping that some of these mutations and drugs are extreme enough to affect the much less granular TW infantry stats.

Would be a shame if these mutations and drugs only affect AToW play and have no impact on TW beyond whether quad protomechs can be piloted or not.

Thanks much for any help.

From a story stand point I am curious if any society mad scientist ever got ahold of a manei domeni warrior ?I mean yikes a 7 ft tall beast with a bionic everything would be nutz

Empyrus

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #56 on: 18 April 2017, 21:22:29 »
Crazy thought...

Canon indicates that some Clan totem animals, like the Jade Falcon and Smoke Jaguar, were genetically modified by the Scientist Caste (or their SLDF forbears).  It would have been interesting to see the Society take this work to the next level and turn the Clan totem animals against the Warrior Caste. 
SNIP
I want to see literally flaming hell's horses. You know, Nightmares, because that's what they'd be at that point.

truetanker

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #57 on: 18 April 2017, 22:33:17 »
Well...

Cyber bodies in the shape of Equine, Prostetic Myomer Inplant, Armed with SRM-2 launcher with Inferno ammo....

Lemme sleep on the stats for now... I'll have something up later.  >:D

TT
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That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
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Maelwys

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #58 on: 18 April 2017, 22:35:40 »
Well, Combat Equipment has rules for some of the Inner Sphere combat drugs and how they interact under BT rules. But I don't think the WoR drugs have TW rules.

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Re: The Society's Ultra Top Secret Evil Volcano Lair IIC Z
« Reply #59 on: 19 April 2017, 00:59:14 »
Well, Combat Equipment has rules for some of the Inner Sphere combat drugs and how they interact under BT rules. But I don't think the WoR drugs have TW rules.

Thanks for the assist, Maelwys.  The passages on Rage and Quikstim on p. 82 give me some hope.

Using the Combat Equipment passage on Spheroid Rage, Rage-C should modify gunnery by -1 but reduce Clan unarmored infantry point totals from 25 to 18 prior to game start.  Maybe a similar TW rule would apply to the "Articulation Augmentation" mutation, as it improves DEX at the expense of Glass Jaw-type effects in AToW (and some infantry taken out by mutagenic diseases per WoR).

And using the Combat Equipment passage on Spheroid Quikstim, Quikstim-C should reduce Clan unarmored infantry point totals from 25 to 21 prior to game start but add back 1 point for every 5 points lost during the game.  A similar rule could apply to the "Exoskeleton Adaptation" or "Robust Augmentation" mutations, as they would seem to improve survivability at the expense of some infantry taken out by mutagenic diseases per WoR.

Any other references, conversion calculations, or suggestions out there?

"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."