Post wars of reaving views on...

[Sjhernan3060]

After the WOR I am curious if in the homeworlds views on the following persons would have changed any?

Ulric - still seen as a traitor or as wise for arguing against the invasion?

The great kerenskys: with sadness as they failed them so bad their bloodname is not even in the homeworlds any more?

Vlad ward: prophet for warning to the clans after the great refusal?

[AlphaMirage]

Considering the Wolves are long gone from the homeworlds along with Kerensky's legacy I doubt any Star Adder care to even have an opinion. 

I mean the Invasion didn't start the Wars of Reaving the craven leadership of Brett Andrews did and his Clan got kicked out of the Inner Sphere by the Falcons long before the WoR.  The homeworlders know they made their own bed and have to deal with the consequences.

[rebs]

I doubt very much that the Home Clans care about any of the Wolves or what they had to say.   

But as for the Kerensky bloodline...  I think they remember the Founders well.  There are clues in Brett Andrews' speeches in TWoR that the Home Clans will continue to honor the memories of the Founders "even as they strive to revive their name." 

[dgorsman]

No reason Ulric wouldn't be seen as both wise and traitor.  There's an argument for being tainted by Phelan.

Vlad wouldn't be viewed kindly (like, spit on the ground when his name is mentioned).  Tainted by contact withe IS, not to mention the operation against the Kerensky Blood Chapel and master banks.

[Stormlion1]

Ulric is several generations in the past by this point. A long forgotten and dusty individual in history. Snd from a Clan with no presence in the Homeworlds anymore. The Kerenskys are the ideal to strive for though and one whose genetics they would kill to reclaim.

[Wrangler]

Its possible they could get dna from the corpse of Alexandr Kerensky himself, given his tomb is well preserved McKenna's Pride.

[rebs]

Its possible they could get dna from the corpse of Alexandr Kerensky himself, given his tomb is well preserved McKenna's Pride.

This.  I didn't want to mention it, but that would be the answer to the Home Clans trying to revive the Keremsky name.  Cannot have a name without a body.   

[Deadborder]

Ulric was a Wolf. He also tried to sabotage the invasion, and was responsible for the Tukkayid truce that created the conditions that allowed the Inner Sphere to reach the homeworlds. Thus he, more than any one figure, could be held responsible for the "taint".

As such, I'd imagine he'd be at "he who must not be named" levels of hatred.

[Stormlion1]

Its possible they could get dna from the corpse of Alexandr Kerensky himself, given his tomb is well preserved McKenna's Pride.

He wasnt part of the original 800 warriors so wasnt included in the genetics program. I have a feeling Nicky K ordered that it would never be used either.

[dgorsman]

It's not like the eugenics program was cloning people from generic DNA.  They were working with "samples" (to put it politely ^-^ ), something you're not getting from a preserved corpse.

[Gaiiten]

After the WOR I am curious if in the homeworlds views on the following persons would have changed any?

Ulric - still seen as a traitor or as wise for arguing against the invasion?

A traitor, who orchestrated the downfall of Operation Revival.

The great kerenskys: with sadness as they failed them so bad their bloodname is not even in the homeworlds any more?

The lost Bloodline of the Great Founder, the prophet who was killed and betrayed by his false children. His true children will never forgive these traitors nor they will ever forget.

Vlad ward: prophet for warning to the clans after the great refusal?

Most notorious traitor, his actions, his selfishness and greed destroyed the Kerensky bloodline forever and robed the Clans of their most important founder.

[Sjhernan3060]

What about ilkhan andrews? “ had the right idea but needed better messaging?”

[Orwell84]

What about ilkhan andrews? “ had the right idea but needed better messaging?”

The Aggressors seem to lean toward that viewpoint. Their philosophy is said to be based in part upon selected writings of "The Bloody IlKhan" so Andrews, despite being officially Tainted, isn't considered on par with the Not-Named.

[Wrangler]

Most notorious traitor, his actions, his selfishness and greed destroyed the Kerensky bloodline forever and robed the Clans of their most important founder.

By Dark Age there were signs of Home Clans spies lurking among the people of the Inner Sphere.
If that the case, then it be matter time they figure out that Clan Wolf had Founders DNA.

[Orwell84]

By Dark Age there were signs of Home Clans spies lurking among the people of the Inner Sphere.

I'd be interested to know which source(s) imply as much. AFAIK the Home Clans are as dead as the Nova Cats where canon is concerned.

[grimlock1]

It's not like the eugenics program was cloning people from generic DNA.  They were working with "samples" (to put it politely ^-^ ), something you're not getting from a preserved corpse.

Assuming they had fresh a fresh corpse, they might be able to take some DNA, and insert it into a uh... "delivery vector," and go from there.  But were Kerensky's remains preserved with an eye toward preserving genetic fidelity, or was he embalmed?  If option 2, well scrod. If they just threw him in a freezer, then maybe.

[Wrangler]

I'd be interested to know which source(s) imply as much. AFAIK the Home Clans are as dead as the Nova Cats where canon is concerned.

Least loved Dark Age Novel (my opinion) MWDA: Blood Avatar.  It drops hints of one of the home Clans affiliate in the story. 

[Gaiiten]

Least loved Dark Age Novel (my opinion) MWDA: Blood Avatar.  It drops hints of one of the home Clans affiliate in the story.

Well, no.
It is rather an old Jihad era secret organisation fighting WoB.

[grimlock1]

Well, no.
It is rather an old Jihad era secret organisation fighting WoB.

The Fidelus?

[Arkansas Warrior]

Ulric was a Wolf. He also tried to sabotage the invasion, and was responsible for the Tukkayid truce that created the conditions that allowed the Inner Sphere to reach the homeworlds. Thus he, more than any one figure, could be held responsible for the "taint".

As such, I'd imagine he'd be at "he who must not be named" levels of hatred.

On the other hand, I could see some Bastions seeing him as a visionary who fought a (doomed) refusal against launching the invasion.  He knew it would lead nowhere good and tried to stop it.  Leo Showers, on the other hand, is a name I’d think the Homeworlders would place alongside McEvedy.

[Orwell84]

On the other hand, I could see some Bastions seeing him as a visionary who fought a (doomed) refusal against launching the invasion.  He knew it would lead nowhere good and tried to stop it.  Leo Showers, on the other hand, is a name I’d think the Homeworlders would place alongside McEvedy.

A novel but plausible idea IMHO, especially considering that Bastions are in a sense 'neo-Wardens'. Both factions held the view that the Clans should develop in isolation from the Inner Sphere to avoid cultural contamination. The chief difference being that Kerensky and fellow Wardens were a lot more lenient with conquered Spheroids than the Bastions would be, not to mention the other 'neo-Warden' faction that formed post-Reavings.

As to Leo Showers, if it hadn't been him somebody else would have instigated Revival, possibly even one of the Adder Khans themselves. Showers also had the good fortune to be KIA before any real setbacks occurred under his watch. Lincoln Osis, on the other hand, could be reviled by both Invaders and Homeworlders as the ilKhan whose waffling allowed the False Star League to strike first and set up the Great Refusal.

[Colt Ward]

Are the rest of the Clans even still mentioned among the remaining Homies?  They removed all sorts of references to the Wolverines, the Jags wiped out Mongoose references, and the Clans have never been too big on teaching history.  I would honestly expect it to be glossed over, most of the generations that came of age after the Wars of Reaving to refer to the other Clans as the Fallen or some other big catch phrase lumping them all together- human nature tends to build a lot of us vs them (the Other theory stuff).  Reinforcing that tendency will be human nature to avoid thinking about any losses- a legitimate survival mechanism really.

The ONLY ones I could imagine keeping the knowledge would be the Lion top trio (Khan, saKhan & Loremaster) or maybe the same from the Adders- its fine for the average warrior to not know/forget but not the leadership.

[dgorsman]

"The Tainted" would be in vogue, I think.  And it would reinforce the idea of staying close to home.

Who was the last known Loremaster of the Grand Council - a Star Adder?  They would probably be the one deciding what to keep private, what to remove entirely, and judge what is acceptable in the more widely available information.

[Lboydmsw]

I think the WoR and the abjured and annihilated clans would be pushed as a subject matter pretty hard but in a fairly twisted and heavily edited way. I can see the clans that dissolved/got destroyed being used as a cautionary tale on "weakness", using different aspects of each clan to highlight some new cultural code of conduct. 

I think that individual specifics would be left out the same way that specific individuals and facts are left out when considering clan wolverine.

[Wotan]

I can see the Adders keeping lessons on Ulrics victories. His Wolves were best prepared in Operation Revival and had the best result against the ComGuards. Mainly because he used the same strategic principles the Adders prefer. So looking at Ulric might be a "look how it works".
His methods to stop and end the invasion were truely honor bound and within the clan rules. There are other khans in that era that do not fit that standard.

[Colt Ward]

Oh, that gets really twisted . . . 'Ulric followed Clan traditions . . . Ulric was untainted by the ambition of the Crusaders, it was their use of Spheriod political games that caused his fall- look at how unworthy Christu & Crichell proved to be . . . Or Osis, his second successor.  Remember, Zalman surrendered to the tainted Falcons b/c he did not have the honor to stand like Ulric.'

[truetanker]

Oh, that gets really twisted . . . 'Ulric followed Clan traditions . . . Ulric was untainted by the ambition of the Crusaders, it was their use of Spheriod political games that caused his fall- look at how unworthy Christu & Crichell proved to be . . . Or Osis, his second successor.  Remember, Zalman * the Nameless one * who surrendered to the tainted Falcon * Society *  b/c he did not have the honor to stand like Ulric.'

Said Khan Polly the Parrot to the creche' and early sibkos on morning Tri-Vid Cartoon Hour.

TT

[Deadborder]

Honestly, I'd imagine that anything related to the Council of Six clans would be viewed in a negative light. Not reduced to being not-named, but to be despised and held as all the Clans should avoid

[Sjhernan3060]

Ulric is several generations in the past by this point. A long forgotten and dusty individual in history. Snd from a Clan with no presence in the Homeworlds anymore. The Kerenskys are the ideal to strive for though and one whose genetics they would kill to reclaim.

Would they/ how would they launch a trial to get the Kerensky blood name back?

[Wrangler]

I just noticed something. There a museum on Strana Mechty, with a preserved cooling vest whom Nicholas Kerensky was wearing. The thing has blood stains on it.  Long shot that could be used.

Some weird reason i kept thinking Nicholas was also in tombed on McKinnon's Pride.