When is it OK to retreat in a Hunchback IIC?

[Iceweb]

Was playing ATB and the Ghost Bears rolled up a pair of Hunchback IICs as part of their force.  Of course Princess doesn't do that well, and after a number of swarm attacks both were retreating do to having been pretty torn up, and under the forced withdrawal rules. 

Still I was pretty incredulous when I saw the message flash by that a Hunchback IIC was retreating.  I just have a hard time imagining a situation where someone who screwed up enough to get assigned to a Hunchy is going to try to live to fight another day. 

Maybe if I had defeated 2 heavy mechs, I would think I had repaired my codex enough to back off, but one had defeated an Urbie and the other had knocked out a Firestarter and a squad of IS Battle Armor.  Not exactly getting back on the Ristar track.   

I know they were torn up and missing a side torso but they still had a big gun and ammo.  Even out of ammo for the big guns I would think any clan warrior would stick around with the lasers to try to make a glorious last stand.  Heck even with all weapons gone, I would start to think about making physical attacks (What?  Can your codex really get worse?) or trying to overload my engine.   

What situations can you think of that might cause a warrior in a Hunchback IIC to actually retreat?

[Luciora]

Under orders from the commanding officer to humiliate the warrior.

[dgorsman]

The same reason they were assigned it in the first place: they always managed to run away and survive every previous battle.  Then barely won the Trial of Grievance after.

[CJC070]

He is not retreating, he is trying to get that stravag Locust kicking him in the butt.

[Kerfuffin(925)]

The lore has mentioned some sibkids take them for their ToPs, so get a kill and say that’s it, I don’t need to possibly die and pull out, secure as a MechWarrior.

In a actual battle or trial I’m sue their likelihood of pulling out is directly related to why you are in the Hunch in the first place.

You are a front line guy and your mech is trashed and it’s the only working mech around not in use and you can’t/won’t/aren’t allowed to trial for the use of somebody else’s mech, yeah I’d retreat when pushed/ordered. I know it’s a dueling mech good for dueling exactly one enemy mech, either because of the lack of armor, ammo, or heat management (or all three).

Second line guy and it’s your standard, eh have to be pretty beat up.

Old second line and I know I’m going solhama next dropship. I won’t ever listen, either I die (as a hero) or live against stupid odds and the clan thinks I’m pretty cool for winning the battle of BFE and I get another battle as a real person who has the slightest amount of value.

[Dave Talley]

or simply
you are out of ammo, both arms are gone and you have at least one busted leg actuator, you simply cant pursue a faster mech and you have no weapons

[Natasha Kerensky]

What situations can you think of that might cause a warrior in a Hunchback IIC to actually retreat?

In a multi-unit battle, it would be the same reason as any other retreat.  The situation has become desperate or unwinnable, and a retreat is ordered to preserve forces, protect higher priority target, buy time, etc.

In a one-on-one trial, it would be to avoid a situation that risks immediate defeat (getting outflanked or exposed) and/or to seek a better position with a greater chance of winning (or just dying more honorably and spectacularly)

Although some solahma are no doubt sometimes treated (or treat themselves) as cannon fodder or kamikaze pilots, that will not be true of all solahmas and all solahma formations all the time.  The Clans abhor waste (even a Hunch IIC is expensive), there is usually a larger strategic or tactical picture, commands must be obeyed, and commanders and even many solahma still want to win.  An honorable end does not necessarily or always equate to a wasteful loss. 

I’d also note that solahma might often participate in a retreat by covering it.  They would spend themselves dearly so their young ristars could live to fight another day.

[massey]

Most of the time there's going to be the chance for another fight down the road.

Suppose you're attacking a planet and it's still early in the process.  Your Star runs into a medium Inner Sphere company on the first day.   You should be able to trash them, but one of your AC-20s jams the first time you try to fire it.  Then a lucky LRM hit puts 2 engine crits on your friend's Adder right from the start.  Your buddy's Thor takes a PPC to the face, leaving his internals exposed, and the Dasher in your group blows his MASC roll and crits his own legs up.  What should have been an easy win suddenly turned into an embarrassing loss. 

But at this point you can still retreat and blame it on an honorless ambush.  "Those dirty Inner Sphere so-and-sos, wait til we get repairs and then we'll show 'em!"  There are plenty of times where somebody gets an early gyro hit or a hip crit, or some finicky piece of technology freezes up.  In situations like that, discretion is probably the better part of valor.  You retreat, because you know your chances of winning if you push forward are pretty slim.  Your goal in a mech like the Hunchback IIC is to go out in a blaze of glory, not a hissy fit of frustration.  Go get it fixed, then come back.

[Colt Ward]

In a multi-unit battle, it would be the same reason as any other retreat.  The situation has become desperate or unwinnable, and a retreat is ordered to preserve forces, protect higher priority target, buy time, etc.

In a one-on-one trial, it would be to avoid a situation that risks immediate defeat (getting outflanked or exposed) and/or to seek a better position with a greater chance of winning (or just dying more honorably and spectacularly)

Although some solahma are no doubt sometimes treated (or treat themselves) as cannon fodder or kamikaze pilots, that will not be true of all solahmas and all solahma formations all the time.  The Clans abhor waste (even a Hunch IIC is expensive), there is usually a larger strategic or tactical picture, commands must be obeyed, and commanders and even many solahma still want to win.  An honorable end does not necessarily or always equate to a wasteful loss. 

I’d also note that solahma might often participate in a retreat by covering it.  They would spend themselves dearly so their young ristars could live to fight another day.

I think the OP's point is that a warrior assigned to a Hunchback IIC- at least the original- are going to be one of the last warriors ordered to retreat.  They are more likely to be ordered to be part of the rearguard as part of a general retreat since the warrior who would take a Hunchback IIC assignment will see it as a shot at glory that will be remembered.

To fix that 'mentality' in MM as the bot . . . IF you get a randomly rolled up IIC, or have any other sort of 'fanatical' response (like say half the warriors who were defending Huntress) split off the 'fanatical' force to a 2nd bot.  Put them both on the same team, but your Fanatic Bot just will not have forced withdraw checked as a option.  Then if they DO get detailed for a rear guard . . . restart the game from that decision point, and make the Fanatic Bot super aggressive and unworried about damage or herding.  Normal Bot forces retreat with the protection of the Fanatical forces.

You can always adjust the bot's sliders mid game to 'change' attitudes.

[Paul]

You can retreat when youre dead.

[Sartris]

You can retreat when youre dead.

i was about to say the only acceptable withdrawal is atop a recovery sled.

[Sid]

I know they were torn up and missing a side torso but they still had a big gun and ammo.  Even out of ammo for the big guns I would think any clan warrior would stick around with the lasers to try to make a glorious last stand.  Heck even with all weapons gone, I would start to think about making physical attacks (What?  Can your codex really get worse?) or trying to overload my engine.   

What situations can you think of that might cause a warrior in a Hunchback IIC to actually retreat?

I think it was in Mechwarrior's Guide to the Clans for Mechwarrior/Battletech RPG 3rd edition that covered this situation well (in my mind at least).  From what I remember, it essentially explained that a Clan warrior's personal honour and their Clan's honour aren't always aligned, and when they clash the warrior has to decide if they'll sacrifice their own honour to preserve their Clan's- which was resolved by making a roll. 

A freeborn in a Hunchback IIc during the height of Operation Revival who's s taken down an Inner Sphere assault lance single handed will probably succeed at the roll easily and stride off the battlefield when their Star Commander orders them to retreat to ensure they're ready for the next invasion operation.

A trueborn solahma warrior who failed to prove themselves during the invasion and is now stuck in a Hunchback IIc doing garrison duty during the fifteen year truce with this fight being their last chance to die in combat is likely to face a much more difficult role- even if they are fully aware their unit is held together by spit and duct tape and their unit can't afford to lose any 'mechs to isorla.

Modifiers would range from high (having no kills during the fight, fighting I.S 3025 units, pitted against dezgra enemies) to neutral or negative (having several kills, fighting another Clan, offered Hegira)

Regarding your scenario, it sounds like the Hunchback should retreat.  I'm not sure it would though-  and even if its warrior was willing to retreat, you can also have the Star Commander grappling with allow the Hunchback to retreat or ordering it to stay in the fight, because the Star Commander's personal honour may take a hit if their star loses the trial too. 

It's unfortunate that I haven't seen much of this in fiction though.  I think there's a lot more to the Clans than "Honour Rules Level 1 - 4" as a way to try and balance games between Clan and Inner Sphere forces.

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

When you lost your Hunchback IIC and eject successfully, then you are nothing wrong to retreat.

[Jellico]

To break LoS to close the range.

[Mendrugo]

If your Hunchback IIC is the Animated Series version and your crotch button gets hit, forcing you to eject unexpectedly.