The Art of War: Home of the Capellan Confederation!

[tassa_kay]

Question:
Which Liao units have faced off against Clan units?

I know the Red Lancers and St. Ives Lancers for sure.

[MadCapellan]

Question:
Which Liao units have faced off against Clan units?

A fair number. Off the top of my head -

Red Lancers
Dynasty Guard
Warrior House Ijori
Warror House Dai Da Chi
Kingston's Rangers
1st St. Ives Lancers

I'm sure we can pull up a few more given some time....

[Kojak]

Would the units that fought against Nova Cat forces during early 3080s count?

[tassa_kay]

I think the Harloc Raiders were on Coventry...

[Nav_Alpha]

I think the Harloc Raiders were on Coventry...

But wouldn't have actually seen combat because Victor brought the Falcons to the bargaining table.
However, te founding CO of the Raiders is mentioned as being killed by the Clans, prompting the unit to recall his son. His son, a Solaris gladiator who faced Kai Allard-Liao in Assumption of Risk.

Additionally, a lot of Cappie units faced Nova Cat troops sworn to Devlin Stone as part of Sun-Tzu's push to reclaim old Liao worlds between 3081-85. This was prior to the RAF rolling the various foreign units together

[(SMD)MadCow]

A fair number. Off the top of my head -

Red Lancers
Dynasty Guard
Warrior House Ijori
Warror House Dai Da Chi
Kingston's Rangers
1st St. Ives Lancers

I'm sure we can pull up a few more given some time....

Any idea on their opponents?

Would the units that fought against Nova Cat forces during early 3080s count?

Sure!

[tassa_kay]

Also, include the Nova Cat units they fought in St. Ives during Sun-Tzu's use of Star League peacekeeping forces during that conflict.

[foxbat]

Kingston's Rangers
1st St. Ives Lancers

The Rangers were the CC part of operation Serpent, while the Lancers took part in Bulldog, so for both, the foe were the Jaguars.

[Nav_Alpha]

The Rangers were the CC part of operation Serpent, while the Lancers took part in Bulldog, so for both, the foe were the Jaguars.

Warrior House DaiDai Chi also faced the Jaguars as part of Bulldog according to the era report that covered those years (maybe era report: 3062?)

[Rainbow 6]

Ijori fought the Steel Vipers whilst on loan to the Lyrans.

I think one of the MAC regiments took part in Bulldog as well.

[MadCapellan]

I think one of the MAC regiments took part in Bulldog as well.

I want to say it was the 2nd, but I'm away from my sourcebooks at the moment.....

[Rainbow 6]

I want to say it was the 2nd, but I'm away from my sourcebooks at the moment.....

That's the one i was thinking of as well, but for some reason i seem to remember the 1st also had some clan mechs taken as salvage.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

There's also the Sea Fox factor- Trials of Possession in Confederation space allow any/all CCAF units to plausibly have had combat experience at least vs the Foxes.

[Kitsune413]

No clan forces in the confederation to trial against the sea foxes.

There is a precedent for a draconis combine business pair bringing in a jade falcon to challenge a warrior merchant to trial against the sea foxes.

Trials dont make alot of sense for clan sea fox, if they are declaring trials they get a chance to take something at a possible loss of valuable warriors and war machines.

Accepting challenges from successor states is an avenue for loss and they are not honor bound to accept. Likewise declaring trials would be considered raiding.

No profit in that. Clan Sea Fox has had strained relationships with the capellans. Check the write up of the nagasawa.

At the end of the day we have all the advantages in our favor to trade with the successor states. So avoiding trials makes sense in alot of ways.

[Arkansas Warrior]

I was under the impression that trials were a regular part of the Fox negotiation process.  That seems like the suggestion from a lot of the DA material.  In fact, your post is the first indication I've seen that the Foxes would not normally use trials against IS forces.

[YingJanshi]

I was under the impression that trials were a regular part of the Fox negotiation process.  That seems like the suggestion from a lot of the DA material.  In fact, your post is the first indication I've seen that the Foxes would not normally use trials against IS forces.

I was under that impression as well.
Though I hardly think such matches would be to the death. More likely till one side is crippled.

[Nav_Alpha]

I was under that impression as well.
Though I hardly think such matches would be to the death. More likely till one side is crippled.

Perhaps even just a ritual exchange of shots/blows to satisfy honor. And then everyone heads to the bargaining table

[Tai Dai Cultist]

No clan forces in the confederation to trial against the sea foxes.

There is a precedent for a draconis combine business pair bringing in a jade falcon to challenge a warrior merchant to trial against the sea foxes.

Trials dont make alot of sense for clan sea fox, if they are declaring trials they get a chance to take something at a possible loss of valuable warriors and war machines.

Accepting challenges from successor states is an avenue for loss and they are not honor bound to accept. Likewise declaring trials would be considered raiding.

No profit in that. Clan Sea Fox has had strained relationships with the capellans. Check the write up of the nagasawa.

At the end of the day we have all the advantages in our favor to trade with the successor states. So avoiding trials makes sense in alot of ways.

I'm sure that 99% of the Fox merchants' transactions with IS merchants don't involve trials.  But every once in a while the Fox merchant just really wants some macguffin the IS merchant isn't willing to part with at all, or perhaps is unreasonable about a price.  The Warrior caste and Trials of possession is a trump card that a fox merchant can use as a threat to keep negotiations going.. "You just won't sell that, huh?  You suuuuuuuure you want me to come back with the warriors?"
And of course if negotiations ultimately dont' work out the ToP can go from threat to actual use as a last ditch effort to snag that macguffin.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Considering that "warrior-merchant" seems to be a fairly regular concept among the Shark Foxes, I doubt the negotiator would even need to leave and come back.  All he'd need is to switch hats.

[Lysenko]

Well, I'm wanting to try something different for early Jihad Capellan and try a C3-equipped lance. This is what I came up with:

Lao Hu -3B               1497 BV
Sha Yu -4B               1348
Firestarter Omni -D    1322
Blackjack Omni -B      1323
Fa Shih LRR x2            506

For a total of 5996 BV. I'm not really happy with teh Blackjack. I might work up a custom load for a Men Shen in its place. One thing I find off is that the -4B Sha Yu is a C3 slave unit..with stealth?!! (Yes, I know activating stealth takes it out of the network.)


All the units are available before 3065. I'm thinking of painting them up in Ma Tsu Kai colors. With their more historical bent, I can see them as at least trying out a C3 network.

[THUD]

Instead of the Blackjack have you thought about a Helios C? Still has C3 and it hits a little harder at close range than the Blackjack.

[foxbat]

(Yes, I know activating stealth takes it out of the network.)

What do you mean?  TW just says that SA only affects the nearest units in a C3 network by giving stealth maluses to the THN, not the farther units it is linked to, and that an attacking C3 ennemy unit within ECM range is cut off from the network. ;)

[Lysenko]

Huh. I must have read that to mean that it cuts off all C3, including itself.

I've not played with or against Kurita/Comstar/WoB (the big networkers) so I'm kinda hazy on the details. That's why a unit with both Stealth and C3 seemed odd to me.

[(SMD)MadCow]

What do you mean?  TW just says that SA only affects the nearest units in a C3 network by giving stealth maluses to the THN, not the farther units it is linked to, and that an attacking C3 ennemy unit within ECM range is cut off from the network. ;)

He means a Sha Yu with SA on will stop its own C3 from working.
I think the idea is to use the SA to close, then turn it off and use the ECM to disrupt the enemy or run it in ECCM to make sure the C3 signal gets out. The range on IS MPLs is very short, so it makes for a pretty good C3 spotter since it will be so close to engage anyway.

[Lysenko]

Ok, so I was right on what I was thinking. lol.

[HikageMaru]

Hello, fellow Capellans. Tragedy brought me back to the forums from my busy work schedule but I couldn't not swing by and not say howdy to those loyal to House Liao.

[Lysenko]

Howdy, Hikage!

[Archangel]

Does it sound right that the Warrior Houses maintain an infantry contingent between platoon and company strength after they restructured their organization in the 3080s after their failure in Operation Golden Fortress?  Basically it would be a mixture of those undergoing training (both basic as well as more specialized battle armor/MechWarrior training), the training cadre, their stronghold's security detail and those awaiting an opening in one of the battalions.  Those warrior houses that suffered heavy casualties would temporarily have smaller contingents while those who were fortunate enough not to would have larger.

[mdauben]

Does it sound right that the Warrior Houses maintain an infantry contingent between platoon and company strength?

I know that ideally House Hiritsu fields a full battalion plus command lance of mechs (40 total), and a full battalion of infantry.  They were at times (often?) understrength, particularly the mech contingent, however.  In 3067 the infantry battalion was noted as including an armored support lance (which may have been LRM carriers IIRC) and two platoons of BattleArmor (although its not clear if the BA was in addition to the battalion of conventional infantry, or if they replaced two platoons in the battalion).

I think the same two battalion formation is common to the other Warrior Houses, but I admit Hiritsu is the only one I ever really did any detailed research on. 

Hope that helps!   ;)

[Archangel]

I know that ideally House Hiritsu fields a full battalion plus command lance of mechs (40 total), and a full battalion of infantry.  They were at times (often?) understrength, particularly the mech contingent, however.  In 3067 the infantry battalion was noted as including an armored support lance (which may have been LRM carriers IIRC) and two platoons of BattleArmor (although its not clear if the BA was in addition to the battalion of conventional infantry, or if they replaced two platoons in the battalion).

I think the same two battalion formation is common to the other Warrior Houses, but I admit Hiritsu is the only one I ever really did any detailed research on. 

Hope that helps!   ;)

Sorry my bad I wasn't clear.  I was talking about after Sun-Tzu authorized the Grand Master of the Warrior Houses to restructure Warrior House organization (after the failure of Operation Golden Fortress).  In the 3080s they were reformed into two mixed battalion - one of 24 'Mechs and 48 Battle Armor and the other 12 Mechs and 96 Battle Armor.  Standard Infantry (as well as any aerospace forces) were apparently completly removed from their official combat structure.