Pirate Hunt in the Deep Periphery & Logistics (3015)

[Daryk]

No worries there... none of that advice has been posted here, and I was just explaining why... :)

[RifleMech]

Speaking as someone who’s dealt directly with low level radiation, poison gas and a relatively few dangerous chemicals,  you don’t need a lot of specialized training to work with this stuff if you pick an area that’s not TOO bad and take some basic precautions: dust masks in areas with radiation, prohibit grabbing water from untested sources, don’t allow crews to take off their boots while on patrol, require tactical sunglasses to prevent debris from entering the eyes,  make sure crews going ‘outside the wire’ take off their uniforms once they get to base and wash them immediately, wash down vehicles equipment and mechs to remove reside before conducting maintenance. chemical and radiation detectors, maps of the worst areas to avoid, etc.  IDK what best practices are for biological threats - I think it’s going to vary a LOT depending on exactly what their are, but these ones will work for excess background radiation and chemical and poison issues. These are things you can drill on for everyone between accepting the mission and hitting the ground.

Aside from letting you pick a base that’s resistant to a lot of types of harassment and intelligence gathering, if lets you chase follow pirates into bad areas too.

That will still require some training and extra equipment to operate in a tainted atmosphere. And that's just for the base personnel. The troops going out into the field will probably need to deal with worse conditions so they'd need toxic atmosphere equipment.

I'm actually confused why Radiation keeps getting mentioned.

Sarna specifically states that Nukes were NOT used during the Succession Wars.

It mentions Nasty Beasties (Dog sized Gila Monsters, and Leeches that can bite through clothing & chew through Leather) in the badlands along w/ Chemical & Biological Weapon after affects.  But not Radiation.

The DC & various civil wars were nasty & damaged a lot of the infrastructure, but the 30 dome cities are still self governed & functional.

It was brought up. Bio and Chemical weapons use would still warrant the use of tainted and toxic atmosphere trained troops.

  Nukes were used during the Succession Wars. Maybe not the 4th but they were used at least once in the 3rd and often in the first two.

The Mercs could use them for supplies and R&R but whom are the locals taking money from?

[Daryk]

I think Hellraiser meant on Antallos, specifically.

[EPG]

That will still require some training and extra equipment to operate in a tainted atmosphere. And that's just for the base personnel. The troops going out into the field will probably need to deal with worse conditions so they'd need toxic atmosphere equipment.




It was brought up. Bio and Chemical weapons use would still warrant the use of tainted and toxic atmosphere trained troops.

  Nukes were used during the Succession Wars. Maybe not the 4th but they were used at least once in the 3rd and often in the first two.

The Mercs could use them for supplies and R&R but whom are the locals taking money from?

For sure they will - my point is that it’s not nearly as big a deal to prep for this stuff as you think.

[Hellraiser]

Nukes were used during the Succession Wars. Maybe not the 4th but they were used at least once in the 3rd and often in the first two. 

Not on Antallos.

I think Hellraiser meant on Antallos, specifically.

Correct


For reference, here is the world map from Sarna
https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/6/68/Antallos_Planetary_Map.png?timestamp=20220104002341


It doesn't even label all 30 Domed Cities.

But they can't be big.

The Capital City has almost 28% of the Planetary Population in that Dome alone.
Sarna mentions a rival, Rages, across the sea from it that I can only assume is at least 50% as big to be a "rival".

That leaves only about 100K for the other 28 cities on average.
Given there are 5 cities outside the Capital that have Mechs, I'd probably say they are all "larger" than average.

So really, now your down to probably 50-95K range for the 24 Non-Mech having cities.
Those aren't big cities at all, more like small cities at best.

"Defense" for any of the smaller one's is going to be lucky to muster a Foot Battalion & a Platoon of Tanks.

Like I mentioned above, "ideally" there is at least 1 city of the 24 that lack mechs that has some form of port & make that my destination.

[Daryk]

Thanks for the confirmation! :)

[RifleMech]

I think Hellraiser meant on Antallos, specifically.

Maybe but it still made me go "huh?".

For sure they will - my point is that it’s not nearly as big a deal to prep for this stuff as you think.

It's still more supplies that need to be brought along and training to make sure everyone takes the proper precautions.

Not on Antallos.

Correct


For reference, here is the world map from Sarna
https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/6/68/Antallos_Planetary_Map.png?timestamp=20220104002341


It doesn't even label all 30 Domed Cities.

But they can't be big.

The Capital City has almost 28% of the Planetary Population in that Dome alone.
Sarna mentions a rival, Rages, across the sea from it that I can only assume is at least 50% as big to be a "rival".

That leaves only about 100K for the other 28 cities on average.
Given there are 5 cities outside the Capital that have Mechs, I'd probably say they are all "larger" than average.

So really, now your down to probably 50-95K range for the 24 Non-Mech having cities.
Those aren't big cities at all, more like small cities at best.

"Defense" for any of the smaller one's is going to be lucky to muster a Foot Battalion & a Platoon of Tanks.

Like I mentioned above, "ideally" there is at least 1 city of the 24 that lack mechs that has some form of port & make that my destination.

Thank you for the clarification. I kind of thought that's what you meant but it was a pretty big blanket statement.

Ideally, setting up at a city, even a small one, would be good. My question is about intel. The pirates are getting help from some where. Is the city you pick for base the one used by pirates for their own base? If not, how many informants are in the town? Not just for pirates but for other rival cities/states? How many of them will see your presence there as a provocation and launch a pre-emptive attack? How many in the town will be opposed to your presence there for whatever reason and seek to undermine and sabotage your efforts? Will the town even have the infrastructure to support the large influx of people the mercs will bring? Even if they do have a spaceport, the dropships usually don't hang around for a year. That's parking space other dropships can't use. Not getting their regular transport would cause some resentment. Maybe you could use the engineers to add on to the spaceport but that'll mean more they need to maintain when you leave. It would also make them a bigger target. Until you know the situation there it's better to make your own base.

[Hellraiser]

I kind of thought that's what you meant but it was a pretty big blanket statement.

Yeah, the stuff about nukes was from all through the thread so I didn't go grab all the different quotes.
I just wanted to clarify that the wastelands of Antallos are not radioactive.

They are however HOT AS HELL, with MadMax style scavengers, an equally Australian level of nasty critters, & left over toxins from Bio/Chem Weapons use.

Ideally, setting up at a city, even a small one, would be good. My question is about intel. The pirates are getting help from some where. Is the city you pick for base the one used by pirates for their own base? If not, how many informants are in the town? Not just for pirates but for other rival cities/states? How many of them will see your presence there as a provocation and launch a pre-emptive attack? How many in the town will be opposed to your presence there for whatever reason and seek to undermine and sabotage your efforts? 

We don't really know w/o data on what proper recon turns up.
For instance they are hired by the OWA to take out Pirates attacking the OWA that are based out of Antallos.
Well how do we know they are out of Antallos?
How much recon/research has been put in by the OWA to even discover where they are operating out of.
And if there has been work enough to track them back to the the system, do they have any more data like a specific dome or geographic area on the planet or are they on a moon, etc etc.   
More importantly, what can they tell us about the world of Antallos & those 30 cities.
IE.  Do any of them meet my criteria?  How many? 
All that data goes a long way to actually figuring out where they are, where you will be, and how long the mission will actually take.

Will the town even have the infrastructure to support the large influx of people the mercs will bring? Even if they do have a spaceport, the dropships usually don't hang around for a year. That's parking space other dropships can't use. Not getting their regular transport would cause some resentment. Maybe you could use the engineers to add on to the spaceport but that'll mean more they need to maintain when you leave. It would also make them a bigger target.

That is the question, we don't really have THAT much fluff about the planet but what we do have leads me to believe that the cities are at a 3rd SW level of warfare.
They went through the 1st SW with Houses stealing anything of value & minor wars against each other to the point of being "barely functioning" at this point.
I can't help but think of "Barter Town", only, likely bigger with 100K people & a BIG all encompassing dome v/s the THUNDERDOME.
  (Last Mad Max reference I promise)

Until you know the situation there it's better to make your own base.

I hear you, but, I do question exactly how much a "base" weighs?
Short of a Mule or bigger they are going to be struggling to have enough supplies for a year onboard just 1-2 dropships.
How much does a Walled/Fenced Multi-Building Compound Weigh in terms of raw materials?
How many people are they taking?  A dozen warriors & a platoon of grunts isn't going to be able to build something like that.
You noted engineers but at what point are you investing too much in a temporary assignment.
Honestly, I'm shocked it's a year long mission really.
I'd think 90 days is enough to find an enemy pirate base & wreck it.

[Daryk]

Planets are big places... if all the OWA could say was "Antallos", 90 days may not be enough.

[AlphaMirage]

Planets are big places... if all the OWA could say was "Antallos", 90 days may not be enough.

And Mercs probably shouldn't take the mission IMO. Open ended assignments are exactly the kind that get Mercs in trouble or dead.

[EPG]

Planets are big places... if all the OWA could say was "Antallos", 90 days may not be enough.

And there may be multiple pirate groups running around on planet - some of whom have their key members out raiding, and maybe you can hope to ambush on return to Antallos.

[DOC_Agren]

Planets are big places... if all the OWA could say was "Antallos", 90 days may not be enough.

If that all they got, this is poor Intel.  You could kill a pirate band or 2 and not have located the correct one.

Hopeful the OWA knows the correct band of pirates they want removed, they might not know where exactly they are based on planet.   But you can gather intel when you get there to track them down.   Even better if you can "smuggle in" a small Intel Cell ahead of time of the main group arriving, to gather intel.  Could give the team a nice Roleplaying experience.

Depending on the size of the group, they may leave a part of the command behind to protect their base of operations while the raiders are away.   If the team is good, they can take the base and lie in ambush from inside their own defenses.

[Hellraiser]

Even better if you can "smuggle in" a small Intel Cell ahead of time of the main group arriving, to gather intel.  Could give the team a nice Roleplaying experience.

I was thinking along these lines too, but, I feel like at that point your paying for a unit for the month the scouts will take to recon through 1-30 cities & pick up rumors & such.
Which is why I was thinking this part exactly is likely something the OWA would/could/should have done before hiring the mercs.
Otherwise they are paying for a mech company for no reason.
Now if they totally lack the ability to scout for the Pirates I can see paying more but that then takes me back to "how" did they track them to Antallos?

We should have some more info otherwise our advice really isn't tailored to what is going on.
Or the scenario just makes no sense since who hires someone to just go out blindly w/o intel for a mission.  (Not a very good way to get success)

[RifleMech]

Yeah, the stuff about nukes was from all through the thread so I didn't go grab all the different quotes.
I just wanted to clarify that the wastelands of Antallos are not radioactive.

That's cool.

They are however HOT AS HELL, with MadMax style scavengers, an equally Australian level of nasty critters, & left over toxins from Bio/Chem Weapons use.

Definitely want Xeno-trained troops.

We don't really know w/o data on what proper recon turns up.
For instance they are hired by the OWA to take out Pirates attacking the OWA that are based out of Antallos.
Well how do we know they are out of Antallos?
How much recon/research has been put in by the OWA to even discover where they are operating out of.
And if there has been work enough to track them back to the the system, do they have any more data like a specific dome or geographic area on the planet or are they on a moon, etc etc.   
More importantly, what can they tell us about the world of Antallos & those 30 cities.
IE.  Do any of them meet my criteria?  How many? 
All that data goes a long way to actually figuring out where they are, where you will be, and how long the mission will actually take.

For the OP's purpose we know there's enough pirate activity in the system that civilian ship won't go there. So either that have lots of jumpships to move in and out of the system or they have plenty of dropships, and small craft and are based on the planet, moon, or space station. The planet would be most likely option.

It also seems like the Mercs are supposed to answer those questions. And since a planet is a big place, I think more aerospace units, and satellites would be useful. At the very least, bring some recon cameras the fighters can carry externally.

That is the question, we don't really have THAT much fluff about the planet but what we do have leads me to believe that the cities are at a 3rd SW level of warfare.
They went through the 1st SW with Houses stealing anything of value & minor wars against each other to the point of being "barely functioning" at this point.
I can't help but think of "Barter Town", only, likely bigger with 100K people & a BIG all encompassing dome v/s the THUNDERDOME.
  (Last Mad Max reference I promise)

If they're at barely operating the mercs would need to be on the constant look out for thefts, along with all the other worries I pointed out. Until the mercs know who's friendly, it'd be better to set up their own base so the locals don't know where they are. They can always move later.

I hear you, but, I do question exactly how much a "base" weighs?
Short of a Mule or bigger they are going to be struggling to have enough supplies for a year onboard just 1-2 dropships.
How much does a Walled/Fenced Multi-Building Compound Weigh in terms of raw materials?
How many people are they taking?  A dozen warriors & a platoon of grunts isn't going to be able to build something like that.
You noted engineers but at what point are you investing too much in a temporary assignment.
Honestly, I'm shocked it's a year long mission really.
I'd think 90 days is enough to find an enemy pirate base & wreck it.

Weight for buildings is hard to determine since they're not built using just weight. We do know how much weight they can carry internally as it's multiplied by it's construction factor. The weight of the CF gets into house rule territory but it'd give us an idea to go by. Or we could make some guesses by looking up weights for sheds and other such material. Some weight savings could be made by buying local materials but that'd also invite thefts. More could be saved by going with just hangers to make it easier to deploy the aerospace units. Vehicles and Mechs and the people can use the Dropships bays and quarters. If not, bring trailers with quarters, bays, field kitchens and cargo and park them by the hangers. You can support a lot of people with a 50-100 ton trailer.

Personnel?
12 Mechwarriors + Techs
4 Vehicle Crews + Techs
2+ ASF Pilots + Techs
30 Foot Infantry
21 Beast Mounted Infantry
That's 200+ people + the dropship and small craft crews.

If we include Engineers, more combat and support vehicles, and more aircraft you'll easily double that or more. That's why I think a third dropship would be useful. The support equipment and personnel travel in it and the combat troops travel in the other two. That or your looking at a much larger dropship, one large enough for a combined arms battalion or bigger. Those are pretty rare for mercs to have though. More dropships would allow the other one to maintain the base while the other can function as a transport when needed.

With multiple pirate bases that need wrecking it could take the mercs a while to find and eliminate them. If it's a few large bases the mercs may not be big enough to tackle them.

The Engineers can double as base security so they wouldn't just be sitting around after the get the runways, buildings, and fencing are put in. That would cut down on a few people but a few security personnel would be good for when all the troops are gone. It'd also allow the wounded and damaged to be rotated out as needed.

OP could probably do it with a single custom dropship but it would take the Mercs a lot longer. They'd also have to be more careful with their supplies or rely more on the locals. If OP sticks with a smaller unit, maybe the mission should be changed to recon and locate pirate bases, with elimination when possible, instead of just seek and destroy.  Otherwise they may not have the supplies to accomplish their mission. Find the pirate bases and report back to the OWA so they can send in more troops to eliminate them.

As far as why the OWA would send the mercs, their military is more aerospace than ground forces. They could track and bomb them but if they have to have boots on the ground they may not have the personnel available.

[3C273]

Lotta good points here. I agree that not necessarily 100% of the mission profile makes sense, but it does not really have to.

I'm figuring out a lot of the details as we go. As for radiation, that is just something I assumed and wanted to confront my players with, cause rule of cool. Chemical and biological weapon residue is terrifying enough that I probably don't need to, though.

I'm doing a lot of assuming. I assume there is a way to track a jump somehow or for the OWA to keep tabs on nearby jump points. Antallos is right on their territorial edge and they might keep an eye on the system but not possess the forces themselves to directly intervene, thus they know the pirates are operating out of this system but not exactly where they are based on planet.
If they are able to track orbital entries of pirate dropships, they might point the mercs at a "general sector" to give them an idea to start searching.

The reasoning for the OWA hiring the mercs doesn't need to be clear or obvious, but it is safe to assume that they avoid direct military engagement on an independent planet like Antallos.
Likely these specific pirates have become such a nuisance that something has to be done to stop them.

That is my reasoning at least.

[Hellraiser]

I suggest some reading here.

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Outworlds_Alliance_Intelligence

It basically resolves every question I've asked about the how & how much.

The Mercs really shouldn't be very blind at all.

[EPG]

I suggest some reading here.

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Outworlds_Alliance_Intelligence

It basically resolves every question I've asked about the how & how much.

The Mercs really shouldn't be very blind at all.

The mercs will know as much or as little as the GM desires.  Even the best intelligence agencies aren’t omniscient, and theres good/interesting gameplay and in universe reasons they shouldn’t know too much to make it more interesting.  A few of them in no particular order:

The OA has good info on all the major pirates but not all the little ones or the local politics

A sudden uptick in attacks by mechs/gear seemingly not associated with any known pirate bands has triggered the OA intelligence to investigate - you’re the investigators too!

Something, or someone valuable or important has been taken or captured - the operation was triggered with intelligence ‘as is’ to attempt retrieval

The OA actually has really complete information but can’t give it all to you because that would reveal their source(s) or methods of gathering data - just trust us!

The OA has complete information but the mercs don’t get it because the pirates have people inside the OA government who prevent the mercs from getting a complete data packet. 

One or more of the pirates is actually a former member of the OA military or is related to the current power structure.  For reasons of prestige and to avoid blackmail the OA doesn’t want this or other related details getting out, so the data presented to the mercs is pretty sparse.

[Hellraiser]

The mercs will know as much or as little as the GM desires. 

A sudden uptick in attacks by mechs/gear seemingly not associated with any known pirate bands has triggered the OA intelligence to investigate - you’re the investigators too!

The OA has complete information but the mercs don’t get it because the pirates have people inside the OA government who prevent the mercs from getting a complete data packet.

1.  Well obviously.  The point is no Merc unit takes a blind contract.  You asked for input.  One of the issues some are seeing is the desired scenario doesn't really match common merc contracts.

2.  And I said this was possible.  I also said the downside here for the OWA is that they are essentially hiring a Battalion for X# of Months of "Recon" that is the job of Spies IE.. a Platoon of infantry in total.   Again, it begs the question of suspension of disbelief.

3.  LOLOLOL.   Pirates w/ funding enough for an undercover spy network.  Now I'm laughing.  Haha, that's good.

4.  I'm not trying to argue, I'm trying to make your Mercs believable.

Saying the OA doesn't know enough about the planet of Antallos to give more than "Sarna" level of detail on what Cities are best to base out is very unlikely.

Building a Base in the Wastelands for a "Short" mission in "Enemy" Territory doesn't come across as realistic to me.

A Modular Base is something Wolf Dragoons (A divisional strength force) build on a planet (New Valencia / Fort Jamie) that is owned by their employer that they use for a 5 year contract to act as base for a massive unit of dependents.

Building even a small base to house 100-ish people with power, water, environmental sealing, hangers, command & control, all so they don't have to live out of the DS seems excessive for finances of a small merc unit.

A planet is a BIG place. 
I question if a year is actually long enough for a single company of mechs to search/recon 30 different cities & the thousands of kilometers of wasteland to find them if they are going in blind.

It's not illogical at all to assume they have something as basic as this.

OA tracked them back to Antallos.
OAI Local assets managed to confirm they are entering/leaving out of the area East of the Shatter Wastes in the Broken Lands.
We have not been able to confirm what city they are closest to, in contact with, or getting supplies from.

Insert:  Big packet of data showing the map from Sarna & a briefing on each of the domes, planetary history, environmental factors.

Mercs decide to base at the minor port of Lexi-con in the middle of the jungle well north of the Shatter Wastes (Broken Lands) since it has a small Sea/Space port.
Scouts will travel to the next 3 closest cities of Elburn, Volcano, & Hottown to gather intel & narrow down.

Fast forward...
No luck in Hottown but between Elburn & Volcano they do manage to get some more data to narrow down probable locations to begin searching the Broken Lands to the West.
Now the Fighters get involved for aerial recon so that the DS & Mechs can finally see some action.

I don't know where your PCs fit into this since you've said above that the PCs are not the Mercs & the Mercs are NPCs for your PCs to interact with.

I'm just saying the idea of Mercs being given a "go live on a hostile planet for a year w/o support from the Hiring nation & w/o the actual goal of conquering the planet or pissing off the locals enough to make them the enemy" order, that just doesn't seem likely to me.

[Daryk]

I've never found the idea of interstellar nations not owning small JumpShips (Explorer/Scout size) that routinely survey systems from points well away from the normal Zenith and Nadir points to be unbelievable.  The investment versus return to is just too great to NOT do.  Explorers (with no jump collars) are exceptionally cheap, even in a Third Succession War setting.  Sure, deny them a Small NCSS, but extra tons of Communications Equipment are just too cheap, not to mention Satellite Imagers.  Heck, entertainment companies might "pirate" holovid/TV signals from worlds in otherwise inaccessible places.

[AlphaMirage]

Agreed Daryk, and the exceptionally poor Outworlds Alliance has one of the largest reasons to operate them. The Wastes are filled with old outposts that could harbor malcontents that need some air strikes on their position to keep them humble.

[Daryk]

Glad to know I'm not alone on that, thanks AlphaMirage! :)

[idea weenie]

If that all they got, this is poor Intel.  You could kill a pirate band or 2 and not have located the correct one.

Hopeful the OWA knows the correct band of pirates they want removed, they might not know where exactly they are based on planet.   But you can gather intel when you get there to track them down.   Even better if you can "smuggle in" a small Intel Cell ahead of time of the main group arriving, to gather intel.  Could give the team a nice Roleplaying experience.

Depending on the size of the group, they may leave a part of the command behind to protect their base of operations while the raiders are away.   If the team is good, they can take the base and lie in ambush from inside their own defenses.

One idea might be talking to the other pirate leaders.  Explain that you are only targeting a certain pirate band, and if the other pirate leaders can tell us where that band is the other pirate leaders can loot the base afterwards.  The mercenary unit takes all the risk of the attack and can only take a few hundred people or tons of 'salvage'.  The other pirate bands can take the rest.

Just make sure that your unit is still strong enough after the attack so that the other pirate leaders aren't tempted to attack the mercenary forces as well.

[RifleMech]

Just make sure that your unit is still strong enough after the attack so that the other pirate leaders aren't tempted to attack the mercenary forces as well.

This providing you can trust them in the first place to give you the right information and not double cross you. They could sell the info to their rivals. Presuming you're not talking to the pirates you're hunting in the first place.

[idea weenie]

This providing you can trust them in the first place to give you the right information and not double cross you. They could sell the info to their rivals. Presuming you're not talking to the pirates you're hunting in the first place.

I'm hoping their greed for easy loot and letting someone else take the risk/damage would be enough.

Still, that possibility might be a good reason to bring along a few Thunder LRMs to quickly deploy a minefield to remind the pirate that the easy prize is somewhere else.  Or set up a few minefields ahead of time.  Or at least train your Mechwarriors to only walk in a weird path in a certain part of the retreat corridor to make it look like they are following a safe route through a minefield.

[Daryk]

A random pirate band is likely to just aim the mercs at their biggest rivals... ;)

[RifleMech]

I'm hoping their greed for easy loot and letting someone else take the risk/damage would be enough.

Still, that possibility might be a good reason to bring along a few Thunder LRMs to quickly deploy a minefield to remind the pirate that the easy prize is somewhere else.  Or set up a few minefields ahead of time.  Or at least train your Mechwarriors to only walk in a weird path in a certain part of the retreat corridor to make it look like they are following a safe route through a minefield.

I'm not sure how well that would work in practice.

A random pirate band is likely to just aim the mercs at their biggest rivals... ;)

Yep. And then sell the information about the mercs to their rivals. If they're not believed, "oh well". If they are, more salvage for them. Either way, it's a win for the random pirates.

[Hellraiser]

Still, that possibility might be a good reason to bring along a few Thunder LRMs to quickly deploy a minefield to remind the pirate that the easy prize is somewhere else.

Thunder LRMs in 3015?

[idea weenie]

Thunder LRMs in 3015?

Fair point.  I'd bet there are lower-tech versions of Thunder minefield missiles, just lower capability than the actual munitions.  So a true Thunder munition might deploy an optimized pattern, a more basic version might deploy a field that is half the strength.

Or just park a few LRM Carriers nearby so anyone chasing gets several dozen missiles to the face.  The carriers don't have to kill all the pirates, just focus on whoever is in front and let enlightened self-preservation do the rest.

[Daryk]

That LRM Carrier remark is actually a very important point.  Obstacles that aren't observed aren't obstacles.

[RifleMech]

Depending on the defenders RL carriers would be useful as would mine dispenser carriers and mortar carriers.