Let's Discuss Rocket Launchers

[Colt Ward]

I find myself attracted to this bit of equipment, but generally in scenario/campaign play.  My mercs have one WTH-1H in a line unit, and one back in the hanger being put back together.  I find myself wanting to plant one on various units when I feel they are armored enough that another ton or half ton of armor is not really desired, I do not want to drastically change the vehicle's traditional weapons load, and I want a bit more punch.  IE, drop that ton of MG ammo to half a ton and slap a RL10 on the turret.  Am I the only one?

Now, I know the Aero fiends love the RL10 pods for close air support, dropship busting and warship cracking.  But outside of that do you really use them?

Are you more likely to use them in one-offs or campaign play?

What sort of force are you more likely to use rocket launcher systems?

Have you been evil enough to use a Rocket Launcher Field Gun Platoon, in a city?

[billtfor3]

Throw them on a fast hovercraft, in place of all other weapons, and watch people do unmentionable things in their trousers.....

A Drillson with all the weapons, but the Large Laser pulled? 20 RL 10s........ ouchie!

[Ian Sharpe]

Pulled the MGs and ammo on a PXH and popped on RL-10s instead.  The 6/9 tiny rocket buggy was also fun for a few games.

[Weirdo]

Rockets are great on fast backstabbers that can get to an optimal position, let rip with a massive salvo, then get out of dodge. Having a handful of rockets on a line 'mech also makes a good deterrent to those who would get too close, or as a nice firepower boost when you need to let rip with an alpha strike. Also, their ability to deal massive damage at once makes them good bunker busters, allowing you to quickly bring down a building that might otherwise take even a 'mech a few turns to collapse.

[blackjack]

I'm a fan of rocket launchers. The WHT-1H is a great urban fighter. I was forced to use the RL as replacement for battle damaged weapons in a short campaign. They Allow for some interesting configurations. Best one shot weapon in the game. Ended up using 9 rl 10's in my commando was able to max the armor & carry 2 med lasers as back up. He went from short range brawler to medium range fire support.  I'm more apt to use them in light mechs that carry machine guns, stingers etc. I prefer the long range pop.

[Sartris]

In my campaign, I tore the AC/10 out of several Gladius tanks and replaced the cannon with a pile of RL/20.  I used them as tools of blunt-force trauma to open holes in lines, terrorize, and draw unnecessary attention.  The pilots were convicts who were promised their freedom and $250,000 if they completed their mission objectives. 

On a broader scale, I like RLs better on vehicles than 'mechs... though I do like the Archers (8W?) and Ost mechs will a ton of them.

[Jim1701]

Throw them on a fast hovercraft, in place of all other weapons, and watch people do unmentionable things in their trousers.....

A Drillson with all the weapons, but the Large Laser pulled? 20 RL 10s........ ouchie!

No hovercraft can hold that many RL's but I admire your enthusiasm.   O0

[Jim1701]

RL's on mechs are ok but their heat tends to dampen my like for them.  OTOH RL's on vees are awesome.  The Karnov (Periphery) is just vicious though I would have dropped one or 2 RL 10's for a little more armor.  Used correctly a VTOL armed with massive RL batteries can make a Fire Moth H look like a pansy (once.)

[Porkins]

I just used some RL equipped Galleons the other day against a player in our gaming group.  The tanks were part of a reinforced company of Banson's Raiders in my Dark Age campaign.  Man, do those things pack a whallop!  Basically tossed 4 LRM20's at one of the player's Thunderbolts at close range.  I don't care how heavy a mech you have; when a pair of light tanks come up to you and smack 60+ points of damage on you in one turn, you take notice. 

I find they are best on light vehicles as they are a great firepower multiplier for a unit not expected to have a long battlefield lifespan and you don't need to worry about the heat so you can fire a lot of rockets off in a single turn.  Not really that good on mechs though IMHO - a much better fit on vehicles.

[Orin J.]

I think RLs are neat, but i've never gotten to use 'em. the only times i've ever fielded 'em i couldn't seem to get my buds to come in reasonable range of that Dervish i tied 'em into in place of the LRMS......

[Wildonion]

I find that they are also a great way to replace single shot SRM launchers, freeing up tonnage on a few designs that could really use them. The War Dog comes most immediately to mind.

[RunandFindOut]

They also make great getitoff weapons on a large slower moving mech with some extra tonnage.  A couple rocket pods on the rear torso of a heavy or assault can do a great job on backstabbers.

[Doug Glendower]

I use them on my BA delivery VTOLs for supression fire.

[Korzon77]

Flip side-- how do you deal with the mech/vehicle/aircraft that's gone the "everything is now rockets" route?

[RunandFindOut]

Flip side-- how do you deal with the mech/vehicle/aircraft that's gone the "everything is now rockets" route?

By picking them off from a distance if possible and keeping your modifiers up.

[Raczack]

Only just last game among friends did I ever try out Rockets, and I dare say I am somewhat in love. The Catapult CPLT-H2 with jump jets and 180 points of alpha strike potential made one glorious bodyguard for my supporting elements. Hopped over a hill into a Royal Black Knight and friends who were busy stomping my entrenched infantry and causing other trouble. Pretty well decided the match then and there. One turn of duck and cover positioning to burn off my modifiers and then unload from a standstill at point blank. First turn cost me some armor, the second turn a ton of internal hits and my PPC. That said it was spectacular. Black Knight down and removed from the fight in one crushing volley and all those empty tubes make for convenient crit sinks. To do enough spooky damage that you can chase off its partners with little more than internal structure and two medium lasers is priceless.

Situational and will likely cause panic only once, but it has instilled a healthy fear that I hope will last.

[Martius]

Situational and will likely cause panic only once, but it has instilled a healthy fear that I hope will last.

The fear will last- and it will make your opponents keep their movement mods up when facing that 'Mech.  ;)

[Saint]

I love them as well. I just love when some one charges my Jagermech 6-H and gets 90 RL's to the face, granted I end up shut down from the heat . O0

I do prefer the RL10, on light fast mechs or vechs.

[Hellraiser]

OTOH RL's on vees are awesome.  The Karnov (Periphery) is just vicious though I would have dropped one or 2 RL 10's for a little more armor.  Used correctly a VTOL armed with massive RL batteries can make a Fire Moth H look like a pansy (once.)

What he said !!!!

[Fallen_Raven]

Flip side-- how do you deal with the mech/vehicle/aircraft that's gone the "everything is now rockets" route?

Either charger them with something fast (for the modifiers obviously) and heavily armored (just as obvious why) in an effort to force a massive volley that leaves the RL unit helpless next turn. If that doesn't work, then you at least have a unit close enough to cause trouble that hasn't been fired on. For this purpose, the Charger-1A1 is actually a rather good choice.

Edited for spelling lack of caffine.

[Colt Ward]

Did we find a true tactical nitch for that boondoogle?

[Hellraiser]

Did we find a true tactical nitch for that boondoogle? 

Its always had one.

Step one, be ignored for other better mechs.
Step two, slowly keep walking in staying in the pack.
Step three, trigger a Sprint to charge right into something.
Its all there in the name.


Its clan niche is outnumbering Dwolves & kicking to death.

[TJHairball]

The thing that really bothers me about RLs is that the RL-10 is generally so much better than the RL-15 and RL-20.  >:(

[Fear Factory]

The thing that really bothers me about RLs is that the RL-10 is generally so much better than the RL-15 and RL-20.  >:(

Not for vehicles if you want to pack more woosh with less space.

Let me say this.  I really enjoy Rocket Launchers.  They really have their place in this game and are a lot more useful than they let on.  I like packing them on cheap units or using them in place of weapons that were destroyed.  They pack a serious punch.

[Iron Mongoose]

I do like RLs.  I don't tend to like them in an offensive role except on hovers or VTOLs or on very very light and fast mechs, since for something like an Archer I like to be able to get several turns of fire.   But, as defensive back up weapons they work very nicely.  No one, as has been pointed out, wants to be the one to be the first in to get blasted for such a high potental damage (even if likely damage is much lower, it looks like such a big number).  And, often the first mechs that would reach you and try to flank you or get into your rear arc are lighter, faster mechs.  Such mechs often have short ranges and low armor, which is a perfict combination of things for RLs to shoot at.  So, you keep the back stabbers off for a few turns, untill you can unleash your own backstabbers with their RLs on his bigger mechs.

[billtfor3]

I've thought of using them in Turrents for base defense.....  how many could you stuff in one, and wouldn't that ruin an attackers day?  >:D >:D >:D

[Nahuris]

I am currently putting together my own vehicle company that has a line of Vtols with RL's --- sometimes combined with Light AC's, or Magshots.

Nahuris

[Colt Ward]

I have wanted to pile RL10 pods on VTOLs and follow the rules like they sling them under CF and ASF . . . even going so far as to just house rule it the same.  Which required some playing around with MM files.

[Weirdo]

TacOps will let VTOLs carry bombs just like fighters, and RL/10s are valid bombs...

[Jackmc]

I've thought of using them in Turrents for base defense.....  how many could you stuff in one, and wouldn't that ruin an attackers day?  >:D >:D >:D

I've actually found them to be at their best on urban defense units.

-Jackmc

[Colt Ward]

TacOps will let VTOLs carry bombs just like fighters, and RL/10s are valid bombs...

Oh, that rule has got to be missing from MM . . . *skips off to the other forums*

[Fireangel]

Thing is that most people see RL's as "fire one volley and you are done"-only weapons, when they are extremely useful fired singly or in pairs over the course of a battle.

As an example, I posit the Silverbrick/Goldbrick ASFs.

[Jim1701]

Thing is that most people see RL's as "fire one volley and you are done"-only weapons, when they are extremely useful fired singly or in pairs over the course of a battle.

As an example, I posit the Silverbrick/Goldbrick ASFs.

Actually I see them as most useful as "fire one volley and you are done".  As long as that volley is at the right point in the battle anyway.  I prefer not to fritter away my biggest punch in dribs and drabs.  Besides if you have a unit primarily armed with RL's then you know which unit to move first once it has shot its.... rockets.  8)

[Colt Ward]

Which is why I suggested campaign play.  When you have two or three rocket units hitting the enemy in each scenario then running for the ammo point to reload for the next battle makes them more effective than regular units IMO . . . for instance, if you put the units forward at the right time then they are less likely to be dinged when they unload (or they get destroyed to stop them, but eh), which means less motive or other critical hits.  Your armor may get a bit shot up, but its not like the mechs and regular armor that stays in the fight and likely takes some sort of damage.

Which makes me wonder about turn around time on the rocket reloads.

[Fireangel]

Actually I see them as most useful as "fire one volley and you are done".  As long as that volley is at the right point in the battle anyway.  I prefer not to fritter away my biggest punch in dribs and drabs.  Besides if you have a unit primarily armed with RL's then you know which unit to move first once it has shot its.... rockets.  8)

My quantifier is "only". When you mount RLs for "extra punch" it does make sense to hold your packs for the right moment, but when your primary armament is the RL's, you can be useful for longer.

Using the Goldbrick to illustrate; RL's are the only systems it has; it could certainly blow all its packs on one target, but if the target survives or has a wingman, fleeing is its only option. However, if it fires its packs in twos or threes (more if a GOOD firing solution is available), then it can engage more than one target (not necessarily simultaneously!) over the course of the engagement.

Same thing applies to ground units; you could for example, swap out the Lightning's dumb paired SRM-4(OS)s for a pair of RL-10 five-packs (bear with me); each to be fired as a block against a single target, keeping the MPL as the primary weapon OR you could build a low-tech J Edgar with eight RL-10's in the turret in lieu of all other weapons... or other unit types. In the first case, the obvious tactical choice is mass volleys, in the second, you have to nurse the shots to last the entire fight.

[Hellraiser]

The thing that really bothers me about RLs is that the RL-10 is generally so much better than the RL-15 and RL-20.  >:( 

Oh sir, might I suggest you compare them by BV instead of by damage/ton/range.
Like Clan Heavy Lasers the bigger RL's SHINE in BV play.

[Fireangel]

Oh sir, might I suggest you compare them by BV instead of by damage/ton/range.
Like Clan Heavy Lasers the bigger RL's SHINE in BV play.

Yeah, but three RL-10's at better ranges than a single RL-20 brightly illuminate the flaws in the BV system.   8)

[ANS Kamas P81]

Yeah, but three RL-10's at better ranges than a single RL-20 brightly illuminate the flaws in the BV system.   8)

Outside of heat yes - and with the talk of spamming RL fire, heat will build up FAST.

[Colt Ward]

Unless your a vehicle.

[Hellraiser]

Yeah, but three RL-10's at better ranges than a single RL-20 brightly illuminate the flaws in the BV system.   8) 

How is it flawed ?
IIRC isn't 3 RL10's a lot more BV than 1 RL20 ?
I'm at work so can't look at my HM file but I was sure it was.

[ANS Kamas P81]

How is it flawed ?
IIRC isn't 3 RL10's a lot more BV than 1 RL20 ?
I'm at work so can't look at my HM file but I was sure it was.

3 RL10s put 30 damage out to range 18, RL20 puts out 20 damage to range 12 - for the same tonnage and crits.

[Jackmc]

If you want real dirt-cheap disposable RL platforms, you can fit them easily on a low-end medium SuV for next to nothing.

-Jackmc

[Hellraiser]

3 RL10s put 30 damage out to range 18, RL20 puts out 20 damage to range 12 - for the same tonnage and crits.

Correct.
  However, we were discussing the BV of that comparison, not the Damage/Ton as I said above.

The shorter range of bigger RL pods means they are quite cheap compared to RL10's in BV.

[Martius]

BTW- RLs 20 can be used for mine clearing giving designs like the HBK-5H some utility.

[Jim1701]

BTW- RLs 20 can be used for mine clearing giving designs like the HBK-5H some utility.

True but I'd have to be pretty desperate to use a RL like that. 

As for BV as a comparison:

3 x RL20 (60 rockets) has a weapon BV of 72, have a C-Bill cost of 135,000, take up 6 crit spaces on a mech, 3 item spaces on a vee and weigh 4.5 tons.
4 x RL15 (60 rockets) has a weapon BV of 92, have a C-Bill cost of 120,000, take up 4 crit spaces on a mech, 4 item spaces on a vee and weigh 4 tons.
6 x RL10 (60 rockets) has a weapon BV of 108, have a C-Bill cost of 90,000, take up 6 crit spaces on a mech, 6 item spaces on a vee and weigh 3 tons.

For me BV will be the primary consideration.  I want RL wielding unit to be as cheap as possible.  Plus I'm generally not going to using the extra range provided by the 15 and 10 launchers anyway.  I see RL's a slightly longer ranged melee weapon that vehicles can use.   O0

[Maingunnery]

Would it be good idea to combine a spotter chassis and a RL boat? Then you can still use the vehicle/mech after the RL have been shot.

[Jim1701]

That is one option.  I built one with ECM so it could still run around disrupting enemy C3 networks (or protect my own) once it had fired off all its rockets.  Adding a C3 slave or TAG are also options though those would inflate the BV cost of the unit more than I would like. 

[Weirdo]

Not a bad idea. For similar reasons, I love running the RL Firestarter. After you fire off that 70-pt rocket salvo, the weapons load is almost identical to the original Firestarter, so it can still be used in the same way. Also fun to try and psyche people out, making them wonder if it's a rocket-bearer or not. >:D (For some reason, they rarely ask to see the record sheet.)

[Saint]

Not a bad idea. For similar reasons, I love running the RL Firestarter. After you fire off that 70-pt rocket salvo, the weapons load is almost identical to the original Firestarter, so it can still be used in the same way. Also fun to try and psyche people out, making them wonder if it's a rocket-bearer or not. >:D (For some reason, they rarely ask to see the record sheet.)

Firestarter is my second fav RL boat, she really earned my respect after coring a fresh Schrek PPC carrier in a single turn with out receiving a scratch.

Are there any official RL tanks besides the Gladius II?

[Martius]

Yes. The WoB had some RL Hovertanks. Gabriel perhaps? Am away from my books, cannot check.

[Gus]

RLs in handheld mounts. Put as many RLs as appropriate into a handheld mount, to give your mech another interesting option. Of course, you'd have to use it such that it is worth forgoing your arm and torso mounted weapons. Again, potential for the fast backstabber, or a big punch for your hidden mechs?

[Youngblood]

The things are horrid with Regular gunners.  The things are AMAZING with Veteran gunners!  And then with Elite gunners in a quick one-alpha-on-the-run strike....

[Weirdo]

Are there any official RL tanks besides the Gladius II?

The Blakist Lightning is the perfect RL tank. The Taurians also made a RL Gabriel variant. Kinda odd that there aren't more, especially in Marian service.

[Fear Factory]

Yeah there are plenty of tanks that should get the RL treatment...  the Scorpion comes to mind.

[Hellraiser]

Are there any official RL tanks besides the Gladius II?

Its not a Tank but the Karnov-Periphery is quite canon & my favorite platform.

[Martius]

I want a RL Harasser.

[Weirdo]

That would just be mean.

I approve. 8)

[mitchberthelson]

That would just be mean.

I approve. 8)

I'd approve of a rocket launcher Banshee....the thing's on the cover of the Periphery FM for crying out loud. How did it miss out on all the rocket launcher goodness within? I mean....even the *Charger* got some love. Come on. :)

[daeceg]

I designed a hover with an LPL for hole-punching, and massive RL batteries for crit seeking.  Ugly brute--actually hasn't been effective in combat because no one lets me get close enough with it to be truly effective.  On the other hand it does tend to dictate my opponents' actions like a Blitzkrieg.

[Saint]

The Blakist Lightning is the perfect RL tank. The Taurians also made a RL Gabriel variant. Kinda odd that there aren't more, especially in Marian service.

I have wondered that myself.

[Jim1701]

I decided to build a RL variant for the Saladin and I scared myself a little.  That is a LOT of rockets!   [AAAH]

[peter crowley]

One time that I used rocket launchers was in the Fafnir Peter variant as part of a C3 lance. It pottered around at around 10-13 hexs blasting away with its heavy gauss and 2 er larges until it had shots on a 4 against a Kingfisher when its 100 shot missile battery and heavy gauss shredded a nigh unkillable zombie in one turn. It was ugly. Compounded by when they finally made it through the torso armor it was on the RL side and all those juicy crits were for naught.   

[Nahuris]

For me, rockets on a mech just don't work.... but I go for the long game, and I tend to go for fast lighter mechs, or fire support anyways.

I will admit, I've been on the receiving end of several of the rocket mechs --- the Catapult and Marauder come to mind.... and I've had a pristine Bushwacker killed in one salvo from the Catapult (which promptly shut down from heat, allowing it to catch 3 gauss and a Heavy PPC to the CT in the next turn) --- but during another battle, the Marauder attacked a King Crab, and while it sanded off most of the armor, also left itself shut down at range 4 with that same King Crab, which was the WOB version with the twin Heavy PPC's and C3i, which meant it got tore up as well..... and failed to kill it's target.

Rockets on fast vehicles seem to work, as well as on little mechs that can dash in, use them, and then kind of dance around, either as an initiative sink, or popping with a medium laser as an annoyance factor.... but the bigger mechs, while scary, end up being an all or nothing approach.

It's worse when someone TAC's a rocket launcher that's still loaded.... I've seen that chain reaction happen once....and it wasn't pretty.

Nahuris

[Weirdo]

It's worse when someone TAC's a rocket launcher that's still loaded.... I've seen that chain reaction happen once....and it wasn't pretty.

Interesting, given the RLs don't explode, even unfired ones.

As for all the big guys that shut down like that...have you tried firing only some of the rockets for a few heavy salvos instead of a single massive alpha strike?

[va_wanderer]

RL's are one of those weapons that came too late in the BT universe.

They'd have been epic in 3025-era play, but sadly are "extinct" for the precise time where such a low-tech weapon would have been dirt-common. Machines like the Warhammer would have probably packed a few, and you'd have seen them all over light and medium designs as well.

That being said, they're a nice way to ride the heat curve. Alphababies aside, a few RL shots are a wonderful way to add just enough oomph to a salvo to go from "ow" to "OW".

[Nahuris]

Interesting, given the RLs don't explode, even unfired ones.

As for all the big guys that shut down like that...have you tried firing only some of the rockets for a few heavy salvos instead of a single massive alpha strike?

I've only ever been on the receiving end myself ----

And as for the explosion...oops
Watched a couple of guys playing, and one of them counted a crit as an ammo explosion.

It WAS fun to watch.....

Nahuris

[MadVoorpak]

When we run early campaigns, our GM tends to say RL's are available, hell make em at home yourself if you have the mats and the know how.

[Fear Factory]

Yeah RL's are pretty dang awesome.

[Jim1701]

I doubt I would ever use massive rocket batteries on a mech because of the heat issues.  Part of the reason is the fact I rarely play with elite pilots and with the to-hit penalties and the relatively short range I expect to miss with a fair number of the things.  So to make sure I actually get that devastating punch in I expect to have to fire a bunch at one time and hope for the best.  As pointed out before that generally means the firing mech will shortly be taking a little break while it cools down and will probably die in the interval.   #P

Vehicles OTOH... >:D

[Sir Chaos]

I doubt I would ever use massive rocket batteries on a mech because of the heat issues.  Part of the reason is the fact I rarely play with elite pilots and with the to-hit penalties and the relatively short range I expect to miss with a fair number of the things.  So to make sure I actually get that devastating punch in I expect to have to fire a bunch at one time and hope for the best.  As pointed out before that generally means the firing mech will shortly be taking a little break while it cools down and will probably die in the interval.   #P

Vehicles OTOH... >:D

And let´s mention RL-10 "bombs" on fighters, while we´re at it... - not as much damage as HE bombs, not as accurate, but they allow for firing the fighter´s built-in weapons as well, AND (with the generally relatively low to-hit numbers in AtA) they are a good extra damage package for air-to-air combat as well.

[Breetai]

I find RLs quite effective on dedicated troop transport VTOLS and APCs. Scoot in, drop the men off, and fire a massive salvo to soften up any armoured units that the infantry isn't equipped to deal with before retreating until needed for transport duties again.

[Lysenko]

Well, if we're talking about RLs, how can we ignore the Hegemony's Marauder II MAD-4H? It's just scary-looking!

[Lysenko]

Oh, and if you're keeping count, that's 4 RL-20s, 6 RL-15s, and a single, lonely RL-10 to round it off.  >:D

As my son said when he was 4, "KA-BOOM-ED!"

[Jim1701]

And enough heat to fry it four times over.   ???

It's big and slow and IMO looks a lot scarier than it is.  OTOH if playing with double blind or hidden units I would be a little more nervous.

[Orin J.]

And enough heat to fry it four times over.   ???

there's not a lot out there that you'd need to burn the whole payload on......even unloading three 15-racks with the normal weapons will put a LOT of hurt on anything. and if you DO need to fire all the tubes at once, you can! sometimes the cleanest kill is the overkill!  O:-)

[Weirdo]

To me, the RLs on that MAD are for intimidation and defense. I use that thing as a commander's ride, so he can stay at range, snipe with a PPC or two each turn, and focus on actual command. If anyone tries to headhunt, he's in a giant zombie 'mech that will take forever to kill, and can take a break from sniping for a turn or two to smack them down with a RL salvo or two, then go back to commanding.

Also, those RLs are great for toasting battlesuits. Force them to come to you across open terrain(or at least stuff with minimal defensive mods), and by the time they get into range, you've got shots that are easy even for rockets, and enough to vaporize a squad a turn for moer than a few salvos.