When would this be useful?

[Weirdo]

Colt Ward's question about Thunders led me to review the rules for mines in TacOps, which led me to glance at vibrabombs, which caused an odd idea to pop into my head. It seems like a nifty trick, but I'm not sure exactly when it might be useful. Anyway, here goes:

Step 1: Load an Aerospace fighter with a Thunder bomb. The mines in question are vibrabombs, with their sensitivity set for ten tons.

Step 2: Drop that bomb somewhere useful, filling that hex and the surrounding hexes with 20-point minefields.

Step 3: Take a heavy fast jumper(such as a Wraith) and land it near your minefield, close enough to trigger the desired hexes.

Boom, seven hexes filled with 20 points of AE damage. It's very fiddly though, requiring some setup and easily derailed by other mechs in the area. My first thought was clearing woods, as a heavy woods hex caught in such a blast would be instantly reduced to light, and a light hex reduced enough that only 10 more damage would be needed to clear it to rough. Another thought was to lay the mines along any approaches that light vehicles would use before making an attack run. You see some hovers park behind a hill about to make a slash at your flank or rear, jump the mech in before they get going, and that's a lot of tanks having a very bad day.

Can anyone think of other ways this might be useful?

[Iceweb]

I'm kinda confused on what you are trying to gain with vibro mines set to 10 ton pressure. 

If I remember my mine rules correctly an unit that is of weight will set off vibromines when it hits their hex, and for each 10 tons greater will set them off from 1 extra hex away. 

If you set them to 10 ton pressure even a bug mech will set of the field before it gets there. 
Sure your Wraith can jump in at a distance to set them off but how did anything get into the field without the mines blowing up?   

If you just want to blowup wood hexes wouldn't conventional explosives be better? 

I'm just not seeing what your trying to achieve when nothing heavy enough to worry about can reach the field before it blows up? 

Now setting it to 30 or 40 tons of pressure and having the wraith jump in of having a 100 ton assault with lots of LRMs sitting 6 hexes away from a field and setting it off when a swarm tries to get under the min range might work.

[Weirdo]

Well, if the mechs are already there, they don't set them off until they move.

Also, non-mech units don't ever set off vibrabombs, so it's perfectly feasible for very heavy tanks to go in those hexes without setting things off.

[Firesprocket]

I need a reminder, do units in a building get a damage reduction from AE weapons?

[Weirdo]

I think so, but don't remember the details there. The buildings definitely take AE poorly though, and since infantry inside take damage as the building is hurt, you could feasibly hurt a lot of troopers in one shot, assuming they're close enough to the roof(which is where the mines would be).

[Iceweb]

Well, if the mechs are already there, they don't set them off until they move.

Also, non-mech units don't ever set off vibrabombs, so it's perfectly feasible for very heavy tanks to go in those hexes without setting things off.

 
If the mechs are already in the area it seems that conventional explosives and/or conventional mines seem to make more sense and are probably cheaper but who cares about CBills. 

I did not know that non mechs didn't set off vibrobombs.  Did they ever set them off or have I had that wrong the whole time? 

Trying to work out a reason to use the vibrotrap against vehicles, but as good as it sounds for a piece of fiction it just seems too fiddly to work on tabletop, though if they were hidden with a GM running double blind it might work.

[brother elf]

I did not know that non mechs didn't set off vibrobombs.  Did they ever set them off or have I had that wrong the whole time? 

"Vehicles and infantry cannot trigger vibrabombs. Any BattleMech can set off a vibrabomb" in BMR unrevised, which is the oldest I have to hand.

[SCC]

On a big map it might be a viable strategy to deny access to a pass to a foe using combined arms for a while, but a better option might be to use Thunder-deployed command detonated mines.

"Vehicles and infantry cannot trigger vibrabombs. Any BattleMech can set off a vibrabomb" in BMR unrevised, which is the oldest I have to hand.

I've got the same wording in BattleTech Compendium: The Rules of Warfare

[Ruger]

"Vehicles and infantry cannot trigger vibrabombs. Any BattleMech can set off a vibrabomb" in BMR unrevised, which is the oldest I have to hand.

I smell a house rule coming then, as that makes no sense in the case of vehicles...

Ruger

[Weirdo]

...Thunder-deployed command detonated mines.

Thunder Command-detonated is not a thing. I played a game once where we thought it was, and determined it was left off the list for a VERY good reason.

[Fallen_Raven]

If you put the mines in a street, you could potentially damage the surrounding buildings enough to collapse them to clear line of sight. Not the most efficient plan, but it would be a dramatic way to make an entrance!

[Jellico]

I am struggling to think of a scenario where the direct application of HE won't be simpler.

Or a target which would justify smashing the legs of a Wraith when you could just risk a mere Jump Bomber.

[Weirdo]

Why would the Wraith's legs be smashed?

[Firesprocket]

I am struggling to think of a scenario where the direct application of HE won't be simpler.

It would definitely be simpler, but seeding a block full of vibrabombs and having a fast mech like a Wraith or Locust 6M set them off as it runs toward the earth thrown up in the air with its lasers blazing seems worth at least a million style points and OOC, demoralizing to your opponent.

Why would the Wraith's legs be smashed?

I was trying to figure that out too.  Though one of my cardinal rules is if it isn't my Wraith then it needs to be capped.

[Jellico]

I may be getting my mines mixed up...

[SCC]

I smell a house rule coming then, as that makes no sense in the case of vehicles...

Ruger

Vibra-mines are triggered by footfalls, as vehicles don't have feet, why would they trigger them?

Thunder Command-detonated is not a thing. I played a game once where we thought it was, and determined it was left off the list for a VERY good reason.

The rules are a bit of a mess on this, aren't they? The mine rules only state that EMP mines can't be weapon delivered, which means that somehow, technically, you can have weapon delivered command detonated mines. Checking the rules it's probably FASCAM

[Ruger]

Vibra-mines are triggered by footfalls, as vehicles don't have feet, why would they trigger them?

i stand corrected then.

Ruger

[Col Toda]

This moves too far away from the Keep it Simple paradigm . Most military manauvers are simple conceptually but in practice very difficult to do . This thing is somewhat defeated by the Peguses Scout with mine clearing SRM amno that is somewhat universal in the Eras of combined arms units .  The same time your fighter is dropping the vibrabombs they would be reducing or eliminating 4 of the mine hexes you are dropping it in the middle of . If it is not done pro forma all the time it will be the next time you use it . So the answer would be once as for when it may be useful .

[Weirdo]

The rules are a bit of a mess on this, aren't they? The mine rules only state that EMP mines can't be weapon delivered, which means that somehow, technically, you can have weapon delivered command detonated mines. Checking the rules it's probably FASCAM

There's no error. I asked in the Rules Forum. No Thunder-Command, period. I played a game where they were allowed, and know exactly why that is. Lemme put it this way:

*move forward one hex*
"Boom."
*resolve 20 points of damage*
*move forward one hex*
"Boom."
*resolve 20 points of damage*
*turn one hexside*
"Boom."
*resolve 20 points of damage*
*move forward one hex*
"Boom."
*resolve 20 points of damage*
*move forward one hex*
"Boom."
*resolve 20 points of damage*
*move forward one hex*
"Boom."
*resolve 20 points of damage*

This is a simplification because there was minefield degradation and also the increased blast radius of C-Ds, but there were two LRM Carriers dedicated to dropping these, and a narrow ridge my assault lance HAD to move down. You see where this is going.

This moves too far away from the Keep it Simple paradigm . Most military manauvers are simple conceptually but in practice very difficult to do . This thing is somewhat defeated by the Peguses Scout with mine clearing SRM amno that is somewhat universal in the Eras of combined arms units .  The same time your fighter is dropping the vibrabombs they would be reducing or eliminating 4 of the mine hexes you are dropping it in the middle of . If it is not done pro forma all the time it will be the next time you use it . So the answer would be once as for when it may be useful .

*waits to hear how a single Pegasus with two SRM racks is going to clear four 20-point minefields every turn*

[mbear]

I may be getting my mines mixed up...

No I see what Weirdo's saying, and why you're getting confused.

1. Weirdo's aerospace unit deploys vibrabombs in a mountain pass. Vibrabombs are set to 10 ton threshhold. The Wraith is on the other side of the mountain, 4-5 hexes away, hidden from view of the pass.

2. A tank column passes through the mountain pass. Because they're tanks, they don't set off the vibrabombs.

3. The Wraith on other side of mountain walks within 4 hexes of the vibrabombs. The vibrabombs detonate under the tank column. Meanwhile the Wraith is safe from explosion of mines because it's on the back side of the mountain, away from the pass.


Using this scenario, Weirdo has effectively invented command detonated vibrabombs. In gameplay, this would work. In real life, Weirdo might be lynched.

[Weirdo]

That's basically it, yes.

In gameplay, this would work. In real life, Weirdo might be lynched.

Eh, if we didn't do anything to the Thunder C-D guy, it'd take more than that for me to earn a parking lot debriefing. On the other hand, I'm starting to agree with Toda( :o ) in that this is an overly complex tactic, and in practice likely very difficult to pull off. I'll keep it in mind, but in practice it might be easier to simply drop low-dialed vibros directly on a combined-arms force, forcing the mechs to come to a halt lest their conventional comrades bear the brunt of the blasts.

It's a shame that mine detonations are bad at clearing other types of mines, otherwise this would be a fun way to clear a path through enemy minefields.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Wouldn't it be simpler just to use a standard HE or cluster bomb that you wait to drop until the target is in the designated area?  Or pre-plotted artillery?