Hibernaculum: (Vacation) Home of Clan Star Adder

[Gaiiten]

Proto-LAMs?  :D

Nah, rather Omni-Protos   ^-^

[Gaiiten]

I would like to have the new HomeClans Mechs being equipped with Interface Cockpits (or with a Home Clan equivalent).

[Gaiiten]

What do you think, will the Home Clans begin a resettlement of the lost planets and a new exploration for new planets for settlements and new sources of raw material?

[Savage Baron]

Maybe. They need to concentrate on their interactions with the Inner Sphere. Space colony games are fine, but really I just want reasons to crash robots unto guns, missiles, and lasers.

[Wotan]

I got the impression many of the old worlds were nearly depleted. In that case it would be wasteful to resettle them just to make a statement. They definitely will salvage everything useful and move on to worlds or asteroids with better ressources.
We have seen some examples that whole clans have relocated everything. It could be funny to see the homeworlds wandering around the IS to find new home in a totally different direction. And when the first explorers from the IS come to the old homeworlds find them abandoned.

[Gaiiten]

Space roaming Clans like the steppe nomads of old have something very appealing, IMHO  :)

[Metallgewitter]

I got the impression many of the old worlds were nearly depleted. In that case it would be wasteful to resettle them just to make a statement. They definitely will salvage everything useful and move on to worlds or asteroids with better ressources.
We have seen some examples that whole clans have relocated everything. It could be funny to see the homeworlds wandering around the IS to find new home in a totally different direction. And when the first explorers from the IS come to the old homeworlds find them abandoned.

If we take the Star map of the WoR seriously then the Kerensky Cluster lost a lot of worlds to the whole Clan civil war. Even two Pentagon worlds (one of those was Eden, the "best" planet of the five) dropped of the map. At the end of the WoR the Clans were rebulilding (and probably restoring those planets deemed viable). I can imagine that they send scouting fleets in the other direction to find new systems (as you said their resource base must be quiet low at this point). The Spirits stumbled upon the Colleen system in 3067 which isn't far of from the Cluster so I would assume there must be more worlds out in the void

[Manchu]

It’s a weird conceit that Clan Space is so resource-poor.

I think cultural factors are a much more credible driver, when it comes to HWC/IS interaction, than economics.

[Orwell84]

The Spirits stumbled upon the Colleen system in 3067 which isn't far of from the Cluster so I would assume there must be more worlds out in the void

A whole other cluster, according to the Kapteyn universe timeline :)

Seriously, though, I wouldn't rule out other suitable worlds nearby either. Hell, even just having more breathing room in the Kerensky Cluster could be helpful for the Home Clans in exceeding their pre-Reaving strength by 3150.

It’s a weird conceit that Clan Space is so resource-poor.

I think cultural factors are a much more credible driver, when it comes to HWC/IS interaction, than economics.

Cultural factors are a part of it, but I think resource scarcity may be canon as well. The section on protomechs in TRO:3060 describes how they were first developed by Jaguar scientists in response to forecasts of ore scarcity.

That said, large swathes of the Clan homeworlds were uninhabited even before the Wars of Reaving. It could be that with a single hegemonic power and only four Clans in total - rather than around 17 competitors - the Home Clans might actually have enjoyed a population and resource boom from 3090 onward.

[Metallgewitter]

It’s a weird conceit that Clan Space is so resource-poor.

I think cultural factors are a much more credible driver, when it comes to HWC/IS interaction, than economics.

What I read so far is that the planets in the Kerensky Cluster are not really poor in terms of resources (though not particular rich either) but that they are quiet hostile to humans. Just look at the Pentagon worlds. The most prolific was the "Curse of Eden" but there were also other viruses and even animals that were deadly. The WoR stated that only York and Vinton were able to sustain themselves to 100%. And guess which planets got destroyed during the WoR (among others)? The Clans themselves think that Kerensky choose those worlds to test his children. Though in reality he probably just settled there because the entire fleet was on the brink of revolution

[Manchu]

So the three possible (and non-mutually exclusive) reasons Clan Space planets suck are:

(1) they are resource-poor

(2) they are unsuitable for human habitation

(3) they are underdeveloped thanks to the Clans fighting one another

The first two reasons make little sense to me, at least without the third reason to contextualize them. I would guess Clan Space is not particularly bereft of resources, just that the resources available may not be easily accessible to governing structures devoted so narrowly to militarism and constantly distracted by armed conflict. Similarly, worlds that are at all suitable for human habitation can be terraformed to be even more suitable, if the social structures in place see that as a worthwhile and affordable goal.

In other words, Clan Space is probably fine and it is the Clans themselves which have been the limiting factor. But who better to redress that problem than the most pragmatically-minded Clan of all? Under the leadership of CSA, the HWC could well enter a new golden age where limited conflict among the surviving Clans allows more room for creating and leveraging social structures necessary to make the most of Clan Space.

And what would wealthy, bored HWCs eventually turn their attention toward?

...

[Orwell84]

In other words, Clan Space is probably fine and it is the Clans themselves which have been the limiting factor. But who better to redress that problem than the most pragmatically-minded Clan of all? Under the leadership of CSA, the HWC could well enter a new golden age where limited conflict among the surviving Clans allows more room for creating and leveraging social structures necessary to make the most of Clan Space.

And what would wealthy, bored HWCs eventually turn their attention toward?

We can only hope. The good news is TPTB haven't given up on the HWC, they're just waiting until they can give them a suitable debut back into the setting.

[Metallgewitter]

The WoR also has an interesting point: most Clan worlds have large traces of untouched lands. Life on Clan planets usually center around cities and firebases with the rest left alone except as sites for combat trials. Usually the Clans fight a trial in this part so that their prize (for example a mine or factory) does not get damaged. During the build up to the WoR this facet changed though that they didn't fought outside of their prize but often within. Which then made the battle moot since the prize was often damaged in a way to spite the victor. 

I guess the reason being for this lifestyle is the way of Nicolas Kerensky who created a very spartan and in a way socialistic society. Capitalism is absent from Clan society (except the Diamond Sharks) so consumer goods or the will to extract resources at any cost is not there. If it is more efficient to trial for a mine of your neighbour then to build a new one then who cares about the large tract of land that is not touched? Seems a little like the Outworlds Alliance doesn't it? The pre 3050 Alliance had a lot of abundant planets but they refused to use them because it was against their beliefs.

[AlphaMirage]

So the three possible (and non-mutually exclusive) reasons Clan Space planets suck are:

(1) they are resource-poor

(2) they are unsuitable for human habitation

(3) they are underdeveloped thanks to the Clans fighting one another

I would add a fourth as well, although this is supported only in short form by the Burdock absorption it makes sense for all clans. The Merchants, Scientist, or Dark caste could be managing larger operations with off the book resources while lying to their Warriors. Without verification or auditing by the Watch their leaders are simply unable to comprehend what is going on.

We are led to believe that Dark Caste live in utter poverty but these are from IC sources and the truth could be different. The Society did manage to almost ruin the whole civilization despite not having much time to prepare so clearly there are some off the book resources of note.

[CJC070]

Some of Clan worlds were hard to live on.  I can’t remember which one but wasn’t there a planet that had two times the gravity of earth.  Some could argue that it created stronger people but it also was a lot more hostile considering a simple injury could make you invalid or dead.

I would add a fourth as well, although this is supported only in short form by the Burdock absorption it makes sense for all clans. The Merchants, Scientist, or Dark caste could be managing larger operations with off the book resources while lying to their Warriors. Without verification or auditing by the Watch their leaders are simply unable to comprehend what is going on.

We are led to believe that Dark Caste live in utter poverty but these are from IC sources and the truth could be different. The Society did manage to almost ruin the whole civilization despite not having much time to prepare so clearly there are some off the book resources of note.

Fasanomics is hard to comprehend but I always looked at the Homeworld Clans as a very fragile ecosystem.  I bet good money some of these Dark Caste sites were ignored due to the limited infrastructure of the Clans in a non military capacity.
Look at the clans in the IS all the success stories include how they had to adapt an change to become stronger.  I find it hard to count the Jade Falcons or the Wolves because I always felt they had plot armour to protect them.

[Metallgewitter]

Fasanomics is hard to comprehend but I always looked at the Homeworld Clans as a very fragile ecosystem.  I bet good money some of these Dark Caste sites were ignored due to the limited infrastructure of the Clans in a non military capacity.
Look at the clans in the IS all the success stories include how they had to adapt an change to become stronger.  I find it hard to count the Jade Falcons or the Wolves because I always felt they had plot armour to protect them.

The WoR stated that the clan system was a precision machine that basically never stopped. The example that was given went like this: Clan A wins a mine from Clan B. Clan B now must weigh if either to build a new mine or trial another Clan. And so on and so on. This requires a steady stream of information via HPG's. And no Clan overproduces (except the Sharks who produce enough to bargain with others). The Invader Clans have the advantage that thy can extratct ressources from occupied planets that have established industries (though upgrading was a painful process and the Wolves even let those sites rot). and as the WoR showed take away the HPG and this system collapses. Just like the Dark Age only on a smaller scale

[Gaiiten]

You may remember that the Clans never intended to stay for long on the Worlds of the Kerensky Cluster. They were supposed to return to the Inner Sphere.

This means they rather exploited than developed these worlds, simply more scratching the resources for immediate use than having a sustainable economy. This had made them them very vulnerable during the WoR, either.
This could have been changed in the post-WoR era.

[Wotan]

You may remember that the Clans never intended to stay for long on the Worlds of the Kerensky Cluster. They were supposed to return to the Inner Sphere.

This means they rather exploited than developed these worlds, simply more scratching the resources for immediate use than having a sustainable economy. This had made them them very vulnerable during the WoR, either.
This could have been changed in the post-WoR era.

Good point. And hostile worlds are challenges for the people who grow stronger - at least the weak are solved on that way. Any attempt to make those worlds friendlier would let to a weak next generation.
And we shouldn't ignore that the way of combat in the clan worlds is much more ressource intense than we might believe. We always hear that they bid to reduce ressource costs. But nevertheless in the constant life action fire they destroy countless mechs each and every day. Yes, the IS know large scale combat - but the IS also have periods of peace. There is no peace for the clans. So what they generate on limited resources is destroyed as soon as possible.

[Metallgewitter]

Good point. And hostile worlds are challenges for the people who grow stronger - at least the weak are solved on that way. Any attempt to make those worlds friendlier would let to a weak next generation.
And we shouldn't ignore that the way of combat in the clan worlds is much more ressource intense than we might believe. We always hear that they bid to reduce ressource costs. But nevertheless in the constant life action fire they destroy countless mechs each and every day. Yes, the IS know large scale combat - but the IS also have periods of peace. There is no peace for the clans. So what they generate on limited resources is destroyed as soon as possible.

The thing is though that the Clans forgot the concept of "total war". If they fight a trial they get what they want intact (well until the IS forced them to stay in their corner). I think i stated it earlier: in a way it's von Clausewitz "War is the continuation of politics by other means" Yes the Clans loose material in their small trials but they never destroy their base to produce more. The Is however..well SW 1 and 2 speak for themselves don't they? Not to mention the SLDF (the basic predessor of the Clans) was the same. Yes they fought in the constraints of the Ares Convention but that did not mean they wouldn't use nukes. Heck every soldier was basically trained to use a nuke if need be.

[Turaglas]

How soon do you think the Homeworld bloc is going to get a passing mention as a we're still here update?

[Gaiiten]

How soon do you think the Homeworld bloc is going to get a passing mention as a we're still here update?

When ilKhan Ward sends a note to them, informing them about Clan Wolf is ilClan and demanding that they must bow down.

[Turaglas]

I don't see the Adders bowing to the wolves.

[Metallgewitter]

I doubt the remaining Homeworld clans wnat anything to do with the Is Clans. They were all abjured and are basically "unworthy" Though the Adders might send back a reply:"Hey cool. Can we have the Pride back please?

[Sjhernan3060]

Even Pre WOR do you all think the Adders had detailed take down plans for each of the other clans?

[Angrii]

Even Pre WOR do you all think the Adders had detailed take down plans for each of the other clans?

That's an interesting thought! Puts me in mind of Batman and the Justice League. I can see that being likely.

[Gaiiten]

Even Pre WOR do you all think the Adders had detailed take down plans for each of the other clans?

I have to think they might have even planned a unique mustache-twirling and sound effect for taking down the other Clans  ;)

[Metallgewitter]

Even Pre WOR do you all think the Adders had detailed take down plans for each of the other clans?

I think woR hinted at the Star Adders planning to grab the power in Clan space by using the Vipers as a bludgeon against the stronger Clans. Maybe they saw how stretched the Invader Clans were (notable exception the Ghost Bears). though I dounbt they saw the Reaving Calls coming. I am just waiting for the reveal that the Adders destroyed the HPG net (as unlikely as it seems)

[Gaiiten]

If there has been a closer cooperation among the Home Clans and maybe even the forming of a new super Clan or Clan confederacy, I think, the "old" Clans could be then some kind of academies for training new Warriors.

Star Adders for Battlemechs pilots and Warships Crews.
Cloud Cobras for aerospace fighter pilots and Protomech pilots.
Stone Lions for vehicle crews, battle armor and standard infantry.
Coyote for dropship crews and Battlemech pilots.

[Manchu]

So now that it has been over half a year since HotW came out, I suppose it’s probably safe to finally discuss whether disaffected members of abjured Clans could be welcomed back by the HWC.

[rebs]

If the were smart, they'd take all comers.  But I don't think that's going to happen, in all honesty.