Author Topic: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival  (Read 3496 times)

Ice Hellion

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 206
  • Part-time builder of fallen empires
Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« on: 19 April 2018, 16:08:59 »
While thinking about how the Clans could re-educate the Inner Sphere Warriors and prisoners into the proper ways of the Clans and apart from the Bondsmen, I found out that in MechCommander, Clan Smoke Jaguar had set up re-eduction camps.

Does anyone have info on these camps? Did any other Clan use such camps?
In turn they tested each Clan namesake
In trial against the ice hellion's mettle.
Each chased the ice hellion, hunting it down.
All faild to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said. "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance, Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1-5

Jaim Magnus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7814
  • Assisting you and your enemies equally.
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #1 on: 19 April 2018, 17:12:04 »
During Operation REVIVAL, Inner Sphere prisoners were generally turned over to ComStar. Only bondsmen were subject to 're-education' in the form of indoctrination.  After Tukayyid, I imagine there was some effort at re-education made.
BattleCorps - Righteous Fury, Sorrow of Eden, Lady of Steel, I Was Lost, Forsaken : Legacy - The Forgotten Places : Shrapnel - Scavenger's Blood : ELH Chronicles - View from the Ground : Shrapnel - It Ends in Fire, Picking the Bones

Crimson Dynamo

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1177
  • Opening hearts, minds, and throats since 2807
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #2 on: 20 April 2018, 08:17:04 »
A couple of the AFFC's Deneb Light Cavalry units got mauled on Sudeten a year after the Truce trying to rescue prisoners from large camps established on the planet. I don't recall if these camps were ever mentioned to be for purposes of reeducation or not, but the DLC units got several hundred POWs out at steep cost.
« Last Edit: 20 April 2018, 08:38:59 by Crimson Dynamo »
"Well, I do, Marcus, and rule number one of the MAC has always been that the man with the plan leads. If we get shot up, I'm the first one to get my ticket punched. There are no flags in the MAC."
"And there never will be," Barton said, nodding his head in agreement.

"You guys are facing a freaking Shadow Division! These guys have strict policies against playing fair!"

"I don’t care. Kill them. I planned the defense so I know it will work. If they claim otherwise, they’re cowards. Any step back is a betrayal of me, and saying they don’t have enough men is just an excuse for incompetence and disloyalty. Tell the Krypteia to do it if you’re too soft but get it done." -Emperor Stefan Ukris Amaris I

Mendrugo

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5900
  • Manei Tetatae
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #3 on: 20 April 2018, 10:02:03 »
In "Once You Go Traitor," the Jade Falcons on Parakolia (circa 3052) had inducted some locals as bondsmen and were training them in Clan ways.  Most civilians were free to go about their regular business, rather than being trained in the requirements of Clan caste life.

"Save What You Can," on Karston, shows the Wolves (in 3052) setting up a processing center where all former Rasalhagian citizens were evaluated and assigned a caste according to their skills and experience, given an electronic ID card, and assigned a caste-appropriate work detail.  Local leaders were co-opted into administering the transition.  (Note: The processing center wasn't a prison camp - people went about the town freely, but could be questioned by Warriors and made to show their ID card - proof that they'd been processed and had an assignment.)

"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

glitterboy2098

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 12023
    • The Temple Grounds - My Roleplaying and History website
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #4 on: 20 April 2018, 10:07:19 »
A couple of the AFFC's Deneb Light Cavalry units got mauled on Sudeten a year after the Truce trying to rescue prisoners from large camps established on the planet. I don't recall if these camps were ever mentioned to be for purposes of reeducation or not, but the DLC units got several hundred POWs out at steep cost.
Maybe that was where the falcon moved the populace of Somerset after the strikers 'liberated' the world.   :P

Mendrugo

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5900
  • Manei Tetatae
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #5 on: 20 April 2018, 10:17:35 »
Subsequent writeups have indicated that the Falcon depopulation of Somerset was a non-canon element added by the Lyrans when they made the holovid series (which is loosely based on two separate campaigns waged against the Falcons by Adam Steiner and company), and that the inhabitants of Somerset were confused when people remark that they were all stolen away.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

Takiro

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1426
  • BattleTech: Salient Horizon
    • Your BattleTech
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #6 on: 20 April 2018, 11:12:38 »
Propaganda!

I would dare make the statement that each Clan incorporated denizens of the Occupation Zone differently similar to the way they did to the Pentagon Worlds following Operation Klondike.

Wasn't Hohiro held at a prison before Turtle Bay was laid waste?

And speaking of the Strikers didn't Ciro the Hero become a Falcon warrior??

Jellico

  • Spatium Magister
  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 6124
  • BattleMechs are the lords of the battlefield
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #7 on: 20 April 2018, 23:36:57 »
The ratio of IS civilians to Clan authorities makes any systematic large scale reeducation camps problematic.

Ice Hellion

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 206
  • Part-time builder of fallen empires
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #8 on: 23 April 2018, 14:26:38 »
The ratio of IS civilians to Clan authorities makes any systematic large scale reeducation camps problematic.

I didn't mean for IS civilians.
For Warriors or selected civilians.
In turn they tested each Clan namesake
In trial against the ice hellion's mettle.
Each chased the ice hellion, hunting it down.
All faild to match the predator's speed and grace.
Khan Cage smiled and said. "And that is how we shall be."

The Remembrance, Passage 5, Verse 3, Lines 1-5

Tai Dai Cultist

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7127
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #9 on: 23 April 2018, 14:36:03 »
Well the primary example of the bondsman process is Phelan Ward/Kell/Wolf/whatever his name ended up being.

Through his example we see that the re-education involved in progressing from Bondsman to Warrior was one of a personal relationship with Vlad.  If his example was typical, warriors would be responsible for the re-education of any bondsman they take as opposed to some formal institutions that handle it.

OTOH, maybe his early REVIVAL example is not representative of what goes on in subsequent eras of Clan-IS contact.  What we heard about from the Smoke Jaguar camps, for example, seemed to be more of a "pen for holding people until we've worked them to death/extracted all intelligence from them" than any attempt to actually reeducate sphereoids into becoming Clanners.  But maybe that too was exceptional and not representative of Clan practices.

Sjhernan3060

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1816
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #10 on: 24 April 2018, 08:28:27 »
Well the primary example of the bondsman process is Phelan Ward/Kell/Wolf/whatever his name ended up being.

Through his example we see that the re-education involved in progressing from Bondsman to Warrior was one of a personal relationship with Vlad.  If his example was typical, warriors would be responsible for the re-education of any bondsman they take as opposed to some formal institutions that handle it.


The wolves and the jags were probable on the ends of the spectrum but I would think most camps were more like the jags but with less clubbing?
 

OTOH, maybe his early REVIVAL example is not representative of what goes on in subsequent eras of Clan-IS contact.  What we heard about from the Smoke Jaguar camps, for example, seemed to be more of a "pen for holding people until we've worked them to death/extracted all intelligence from them" than any attempt to actually reeducate sphereoids into becoming Clanners.  But maybe that too was exceptional and not representative of Clan practices.

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25002
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #11 on: 24 April 2018, 08:37:59 »
I remember reading about a Ghost Bear's warrior conversation to her Star Captain her time in a IS camp when she was captured.  She learned the way of the Inner Sphere through the less-than noble prisoners and learned Bondsman were a thing in the Inner Sphere.  It was novel Test of Vengeance, by Bryan Nystul, really great book if you want see a Post Operation Revival setting with Clan warriors who aren't Jade Falcons.  ;D
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

Mendrugo

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5900
  • Manei Tetatae
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #12 on: 24 April 2018, 09:46:07 »
It seems the integration process worked differently on a Clan-by-Clan basis.

The Ghost Bears appear to have been the most organized, working with established local leaders and promoting them to positions of authority to ease the transition.  Their outreach to the conquered civilians seems to have facilitated buy-in to the Caste system from the Rasalhagians, especially once former leaders like Ragnar Magnusson were inducted into the ruling Warrior Caste.

The Smoke Jaguars seem to have simply imprisoned any captured enemy soldiers and relied on propaganda broadcasts to inform the civilians of their new lifestyle.  (Since they exclusively hit Combine worlds, they didn't have to introduce the concept of Castes, so that wouldn't have been much of a sticking point.)  They massacred any civilians that resisted their new caste assignments or fought against Warriors (most notably on Turtle Bay). 

While published materials suggest the Jags looked down on freeborns and refused to take any captured Spheroid warriors as bondsman fighters, MechCommander prominently features militia auxiliaries on Port Arthur composed exclusively of former DCMS troops now serving as Jaguar second line garrison staff.  The fact that Judith (a ROM mole) was taken as a Bondsman to be a technician indicates that the Jaguars do, indeed, take freeborn bondsmen.

The Wolves seem to have set up processing centers where individual skills can be assessed and caste assignments made accordingly.  ID cards are issued and required to be displayed upon the request of a Wolf Warrior or other official, and are presumably required to purchase food, travel, or do any number of functions.  The goal is to give civilians incentives to join the Caste system by penalizing them for not getting with the program.  The Warriors can then hunt down the resisters who go Bandit and head for the hills.

The Jade Falcons also appear to have processing centers.  In the Cartoon, the crew of the Kwaidan are detained, told they will be inducted into the Merchant Caste, and put in a paddy wagon bound for a re-education camp.  They escape and reclaim their DropShip, but had they made the trip, they probably would have spent a few weeks being indoctrinated before being sent back out into the world under the supervision of Clan born Merchant Caste members.  The Somerset Military Academy had been converted into such a re-education camp, with cells, musters, beatings, and large screens constantly blasting propaganda and information about the Clan Caste system.  (Granted - those scenes are from a Solaris Broadcasting Company entertainment program, so their accuracy is questionable, but it's what we have to go on.)

Based on the Karston scenes, it could be that only those who actively resisted the Clan conquest were subjected to such camps, while the rest were simply registered, assigned a Caste, and assigned tasks without significant supervision until/unless they got out of line.

The Steel Vipers apparently handled the control of the civilians very poorly, expecting them to act like Clan natives, and enacting brutal crackdowns when they failed to do so.  This resulted in significant unrest in the territories they assumed from the Jade Falcons, and made it all the easier for the Falcons to take them back, later.

We don't really have much data on how the Nova Cats treated the conquered civilians, since most of the focus on them came after they switched sides and joined the Star League.

The Diamond Sharks, of course, never had any conquered civilians to administer.
"We have made of New Avalon a towering funeral pyre and wiped the Davion scourge from the universe.  Tikonov, Chesterton and Andurien are ours once more, and the cheers of the Capellan people nearly drown out the gnashing of our foes' teeth as they throw down their weapons in despair.  Now I am made First Lord of the Star League, and all shall bow down to me and pay homa...oooooo! Shiny thing!" - Maximillian Liao, "My Triumph", audio dictation, 3030.  Unpublished.

Nemesis

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 78
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #13 on: 01 May 2018, 12:54:52 »
the DLC units got several hundred POWs out at steep cost.

If recent trends in gaming are any indication, the steep cost of those DLC units was probably $4.99 for a unique paint job. :P
Star Adder, Star Adder, he drives a pitch black Mech
Star Adder, Star Adder, with Heavy Laser tech

(with apologies to Rowan Atkinson)

JadeHellbringer

  • Easily Bribed Forum Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 21734
  • Third time this week!
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #14 on: 01 May 2018, 13:02:23 »
If recent trends in gaming are any indication, the steep cost of those DLC units was probably $4.99 for a unique paint job. :P

"Here's your rifle... here's your helmet... aaaaaand here's your horse armor."
"There's a difference between the soldier and his fight,
But the warrior knows the true meaning of his life."
+Larry and his Flask, 'Blood Drunk'+

"You know, basically war is just, like, a bunch of people playing pranks on each other, but at the end they all die."
+Crow T. Robot+

Nemesis

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 78
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #15 on: 01 May 2018, 16:12:33 »
"Here's your rifle... here's your helmet... aaaaaand here's your horse armor."

<one eye starts twitching> Barding... It's called barding!
Next time I'm slapping Bethesda with a dictionary.

Also this is a Clan forum, so if anything it would be Hell's Horse Armor.
Star Adder, Star Adder, he drives a pitch black Mech
Star Adder, Star Adder, with Heavy Laser tech

(with apologies to Rowan Atkinson)

Caedis Animus

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2129
  • How can a bird be sultry? Very carefully.
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #16 on: 06 May 2018, 17:33:22 »
$4.99 for knee-high silver platform shoes and mottled orange-on-orange fatigues, all set with a red mohawk?

Christ, that'd be a bigger fashion disaster than a pink Darth Vader reskin.

truetanker

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9943
  • Clan Hells Horses 666th Mech. Assualt Cluster
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #17 on: 07 May 2018, 19:41:02 »
Christ, that'd be a bigger fashion disaster than a pink Darth Vader reskin.



TT
Khan, Clan Iron Dolphin
Azeroth Pocketverse
That is, if true tanker doesn't beat me to it. He makes truly evil units.Col.Hengist on 31 May 2013
TT, we know you are the master of nasty  O0 ~ Fletch on 22 June 2013
If I'm attacking you, conventional wisom says to bring 3x your force.  I want extra insurance, so I'll bring 4 for every 1 of what you have :D ~ Tai Dai Cultist on 21 April 2016
Me: Would you rather fight my Epithymía Thanátou from the Whispers of Blake?
Nav_Alpha: That THING... that is horrid
~ Nav_Alpha on 10 October 2016

Sjhernan3060

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1816
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #18 on: 19 May 2018, 15:23:32 »
Was the horses plan under Cobb to always come into the sphere as they did or was that rushed by the reavings?

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28987
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #19 on: 18 July 2018, 11:35:17 »
The sense I always got was they were getting nervous about the homeworlds and wanted their slice of power from the status & economic influx.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Nemesis

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 78
Re: Re-Education Camps during Operation Revival
« Reply #20 on: 19 July 2018, 12:06:51 »
$4.99 for knee-high silver platform shoes and mottled orange-on-orange fatigues, all set with a red mohawk?
Aha! I see you play Shadowrun...

I was always a trenchcoat type myself.
Star Adder, Star Adder, he drives a pitch black Mech
Star Adder, Star Adder, with Heavy Laser tech

(with apologies to Rowan Atkinson)