BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat

BattleTech Game Systems => Ground Combat => Topic started by: garhkal on 25 May 2012, 16:59:25

Title: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: garhkal on 25 May 2012, 16:59:25
Similar to the above thread on 2 MLs vs 1 MPL..  which do you go with for the large laser versions??
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: adamhowe on 25 May 2012, 17:06:31
I personally like the Large Pulse Laser.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 25 May 2012, 17:12:39
LPL in space.  On the ground, it depends on the design in question, but generally I'd take a standard large.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: billtfor3 on 25 May 2012, 17:28:47
Inner Sphere I choose LL.  Clan I choose LPL.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Cybra on 25 May 2012, 17:58:46
It depends on what role they are going to fill. For a main weapon, I'd choose the LL, unless the mech is meant to move, then I'd take the LPL. As a backup weapon, I'm more inclined to take the LPL, especially with short minimum ranges. My Marauder MAD-DC II (http://solaris7.com/TRO/HTMLBattleMech/BattlemechInfo.asp?ID=14961) mounts LPLs as backup for the HPPCs.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Fallen_Raven on 25 May 2012, 18:01:38
Standard Large please. I save on heat and tonnage, while gaining range, which seems a rather simple choice to me.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Thatguybil on 25 May 2012, 19:07:37
Fast jumpers get pulse weapons.
Everything else ER lasers.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Nikas_Zekeval on 25 May 2012, 19:18:38
Fast jumpers get pulse weapons.
Everything else ER lasers.

Being a fast jumper doesn't help so much if you have to crawl into the target's back pocket to get the advantage of your weapons.

The Inner Sphere LPL is only superior to the standard Large Laser at 1-3 hexes, plus hexes 6 and 7.  It is also heavier and a higher heat load than the standard Large.  Comparing it to the PPC which has the same mass and heat profile the LPL is only better at 7 hexes, and ranges 1 to 3.  The PPC in turn can reach out and touch you at nearly twice the range.  There is a reason I consider the LPL on the Manticore 'upgrade' to have ruined the tank.

In space, where range bands are different the LPL is a viable choice over the standard large if you can budget the extra mass and heat for one.  On the ground, it is an automatic downcheck.  Turn to your tech and ask "Can you rip that hunk of junk out of my ride and put in something useful?"
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Orin J. on 25 May 2012, 19:31:12
the large pulse is a frightening choice to hide in your rear arc if you can afford it but unless i'm compensating for a large compliment of of guns with minimum ranges or building a design with a mugging profile the vanilla LL is gonna get the nod for me.

really it's a wonderful weapon.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Sandslice on 25 May 2012, 20:30:05
The mandatory maths:

Range band / LL / LPL

1-3 / 0 / -2
4-5 0 / 0
6-7 +2 / 0
8-10 +2 / +2
11-15 +4 / NA

Like the medium pulse, the large pulse only "shines" in fairly narrow bands where both weapons are at the same range, while having only 2/3 the full range of the standard.  Also, not only is the standard 2 heat lower and 50% longer range, it's also two tons lighter: that's two one-ton items, which could be heat sinks, medium lasers, SPLs, etc.

Standard for great justice.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: wundergoat on 25 May 2012, 22:19:53
The problem with the ISLPL is that it ends up being a bit more of a semi-generalist niche weapon due to its range brackets.  In its optimal ranges, the MPL is superior damage:weight:heat, though the LPL has the advantage of damage concentration.  When range bands start to open up, the LPL can play bracket advantage versus traditional short range and older big guns, but falls versus contemporary ERLLs, ERPPCs, etc.  Therefore, it performs decently in its range, but its nothing game changing like the snubby.  If it had a 4/8/12 range it would be excellent, and I find the derivative X-LPL the best of the X-Pulse series precicely because it can play the bracket game effectively against most weapon loadouts.

The standard LL is a reliable and effective generalist weapon with reasonable fitting costs.  Its not sexy, its not high tech, but it gets the job done.  My vote goes to LL.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: monbvol on 25 May 2012, 22:53:26
On the ground I'll edge towards the standard if I can't have the SNPPC or ERLL instead.  In space I'll take a serious look at the LPL.  It really changes that much in terms of performance.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: willydstyle on 25 May 2012, 23:05:10
Being a fast jumper doesn't help so much if you have to crawl into the target's back pocket to get the advantage of your weapons.

The Inner Sphere LPL is only superior to the standard Large Laser at 1-3 hexes, plus hexes 6 and 7.  It is also heavier and a higher heat load than the standard Large.  Comparing it to the PPC which has the same mass and heat profile the LPL is only better at 7 hexes, and ranges 1 to 3.  The PPC in turn can reach out and touch you at nearly twice the range.  There is a reason I consider the LPL on the Manticore 'upgrade' to have ruined the tank.

In space, where range bands are different the LPL is a viable choice over the standard large if you can budget the extra mass and heat for one.  On the ground, it is an automatic downcheck.  Turn to your tech and ask "Can you rip that hunk of junk out of my ride and put in something useful?"

What's good for the Manticore is not necessarily good for the Phoenix Hawk.  The large pulse has a place, and a good one, on fast jumpers that want to knife fight.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: martian on 25 May 2012, 23:34:49
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Kobold on 26 May 2012, 02:29:38
The LPL is excellent on mechs fast enough to get into position where it is usefull.  The OTL-5M (when balanced by BV) and the WVR-7K are excellent LPL carrying mechs.  I also like the GRF-1DS.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Deadborder on 26 May 2012, 07:50:51
For cheese's sake, I've been considering the value of a Wraith equipped with four MXPL, and making up the difference in extra heat sinks.

Just saying.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Fireangel on 26 May 2012, 08:37:19
The mandatory maths:

Range band / LL / LPL

1-3 / 0 / -2
4-5 0 / 0
6-7 +2 / 0
8-10 +2 / +2
11-15 +4 / NA

Like the medium pulse, the large pulse only "shines" in fairly narrow bands where both weapons are at the same range, while having only 2/3 the full range of the standard.  Also, not only is the standard 2 heat lower and 50% longer range, it's also two tons lighter: that's two one-ton items, which could be heat sinks, medium lasers, SPLs, etc.

Standard for great justice.

This pretty much says it all for IS versions.

When dealing with clan systems the LPL is king; known as the "magic PPC +2" 'round these parts.

In IS aero units I'll take the LPL over the LL unless tonnage is at a premium.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Nikas_Zekeval on 26 May 2012, 10:30:25
  • Large Pulse laser is good when you expect that your fast 'Mech will spend most of the time in the vicinity of enemy (preferably in his rear arc). See Wraith, Lightray, Anvil, Berserker, etc.

Which requires you to assume you win initiative, to both get the back shot and control the range.  NOT something I want to count on in a fight.

Quote
  • Another reason why to use LPLs is when you will have worse pilots (such as in case of Gallant).
  • The third possibility is that you expect that from some reason you will get +1 to hit modifier (on +8 heat), such as with TSM-equipped 'Mechs - see OTL-8M Ostsol and similar designs. In this case LPLs +2 bonus compensates for heat.
  • Heavy and assault 'Mechs may be armed with LPLs for protection against fast movers, such as in case of Albatross or Grand Crusader. With some effort they can cover their back with it too. In this particular case you don't need longer reach of standard Large laser (because the enemy backstabber is usually just behind you), but the +2 to-hit bonus.

And the bonuses are mostly eaten up by the shorter range of the IS Pulse laser.  Compare to a standard PPC the LPL only gets the advantage at range 7, and once you crawl into the minimum range of the PPC.  Given the 'in your face' nature of the advantage go with a multiple MPLs if you want in close bonuses for offensive or defensive use.  7 tons is way too much for a niche weapon, use the mass to augment your primary armament instead.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Orin J. on 26 May 2012, 10:41:29
Compare to a standard PPC-

Please. we are comparing the LL to the LPL and where each can find advantage. We are not talking about particle projection cannons. It is a great weapon, but it is not the matter of discussion. Let us focus on the matter at hand instead of creating strawmen to bash the pulse laser with.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Nikas_Zekeval on 26 May 2012, 10:52:41
Please. we are comparing the LL to the LPL and where each can find advantage. We are not talking about particle projection cannons. It is a great weapon, but it is not the matter of discussion. Let us focus on the matter at hand instead of creating strawmen to bash the pulse laser with.

I threw it in because in terms of mass and heat load it is an exact match to the LPL, and other than bulk nearly a straight swap out.  Which IMHO makes it a legitimate alternate investment for a combat unit's weapon.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Fallen_Raven on 26 May 2012, 11:02:25
I threw it in because in terms of mass and heat load it is an exact match to the LPL, and other than bulk nearly a straight swap out.  Which IMHO makes it a legitimate alternate investment for a combat unit's weapon.

Which to me indicates another advantage to the standard Large Laser. It doesn't have as many direct competitiors.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: martian on 26 May 2012, 11:33:10
Which requires you to assume you win initiative, to both get the back shot and control the range.  NOT something I want to count on in a fight.
With Wraith or Lightray you can actually control range quite easily. And even if you lose initiative.

And the bonuses are mostly eaten up by the shorter range of the IS Pulse laser.  Compare to a standard PPC the LPL only gets the advantage at range 7, and once you crawl into the minimum range of the PPC.
The whole point of 'Mechs armed with hatchet or TSM is to go under the minimum range of standard PPC, exactly where LPL is most effective. Have you ever tried OTL-8M Ostsol or NGS-6T Nightsky in your game? You really should ...

Given the 'in your face' nature of the advantage go with a multiple MPLs if you want in close bonuses for offensive or defensive use.  7 tons is way too much for a niche weapon, use the mass to augment your primary armament instead.

This discussion is about Large Laser vs. Large Pulse Laser, not about MPLs or PPCs ...
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: wundergoat on 26 May 2012, 12:54:57
Performance against weapons contemporary to the LL and LPL are valid in determining which is better, unless we are looking at a vaccum.  Even if those weapons are not valid replacements for the lasers, we still need to consider someone else packing them.

Performance vs the common PPC or other long ranged heavy hitters is important.  Most such guns leave the LPL behind at most ranges for similar weight, so the LPL is at a disadvantage there.  The LPL can get into its short range, but then it competes with more efficient though less accurate and penetrating short range weapons.

LL has similar issues, but weighs less and performs similarly, so I consider it better in general.  I would still always go with a LPL on a wraith though, it functions as a can opener better than the LL in the role, while having damage concentration and better stand off functionality than MLs and MPLs.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Orin J. on 26 May 2012, 13:04:09
Performance against weapons contemporary to the LL and LPL are valid in determining which is better, unless we are looking at a vaccum.

Yeah, we're looking at a vacuum. the discussion is in if you would choose large laser or a large pulse laser, full stop. i know the temptation to drag a thread off-topic is a mighty one, but let's save it for the next "why we need to fix autocannons!*" thread.

*no! don't do it! you just back away from that new thread button right now, it doesn't have to end this way!
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: mitchberthelson on 26 May 2012, 19:22:04
This pretty much says it all for IS versions.

When dealing with clan systems the LPL is king; known as the "magic PPC +2" 'round these parts.

In IS aero units I'll take the LPL over the LL unless tonnage is at a premium.

This is why I have an NPC in an RPG game who "inverted" the weaponry on his Anvil, going for two standard LL's and 2 MPL's instead of the other way around. Still got the point blank nastiness for more range and the same damage output, with lighter weight and less heat. The two tons saved went to badly needed armor.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Dave Talley on 26 May 2012, 19:47:48
Which to me indicates another advantage to the standard Large Laser. It doesn't have as many direct competitiors.

yeah to me the large has always been a lightweight ppc
lighter, less heat, less damage, less limitations
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: LastChanceCav on 26 May 2012, 22:09:00
They each have their place, but I find more places for the LL than the LPL.

Cheers,
LCC
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: monty on 27 May 2012, 07:39:52
Straight choice between the weapons I would go with the standard LL. Shorter range cancels out the benefit of pulses far too often IMHO & the extra tonnage is too high a price for a tiny damage boost. However there are some designs where I love the LPL. The fast backstabbers like the Wraith are the best example, but close combat designs are another good place for the LPL. The LPL is also a good choice on bracket fire designs with LRM's.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Demos on 27 May 2012, 08:38:53
Mostly LL, but the ISLPL has its place in some mechs. As said before, jumpers and assaults as heavy defense weapon.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: monbvol on 27 May 2012, 10:33:53
As a standard general service weapon where I don't know what I'm going to be fighting or what terrain I'm going to be on I do favor the standard Large Laser greatly over the pulse version because it is easier to manipulate range in my favor while having the same net to hit number even for a jumper.  At least on the ground.  Space the range is the same, damage slightly greater, and accuracy is universally better for the pulse so if I have the 7 tons I will reach for it.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Cannonshop on 27 May 2012, 20:55:08
Standard Large...and here's why:

Less heat, longer range, lower c-bill cost.  Like with the MPL discussion, the LPL only benefits in a narrow band of the Stanard Large's range profile, and like the MPL, the LPL doesn't even touch into the standard large laser's "Long" range.

LPL does more heat, too, and it weighs as much as a PPC, so there's the mass issue to consider-for the same mass, I can put a standard large laser and another Heat Sink on a design. 

Take, for instance, the TR1 Wraith-you can actually improve its performance and heat curve significantly by swapping the Pulse weapons for Standards+Heat sinks.  Most enemy types who can see your 'mech aren't going to let it GET close if they can help it-and PL's in general (Inner sphere tech) kind of require close approach to function.

Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Scotty on 28 May 2012, 15:21:37
Uh, if you're in a Wraith, there aren't many enemy types that can tell you "no" when you say "let's play"
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: mutantmagnet on 28 May 2012, 15:37:31
Also you never used a Wraith otherwise you would know how much a Large laser would be detrimental over a large pulse.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: House Davie Merc on 28 May 2012, 17:37:54
I prefer to use the ER Large laser combined with a Targetting Computer .

Having a short range bracket of 7 hexes and a medium out to 14 combined with the
-1 of the TC is pretty sweet IMHO .

I think to many people look at the heat of ER and automatically dismiss it for the older
standard large laser .
The ER Large Laser has a lot more hexes per bracket to take advantage of often giving you
practical shots when the targets return fire is either poor or impossible .
If I must choose between the IS standard and the IS  large pulse I would chose the standard
for everything except some jumping backstabbers.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Orin J. on 28 May 2012, 17:39:41
Take, for instance, the TR1 Wraith-you can actually improve its performance and heat curve significantly by swapping the Pulse weapons for Standards+Heat sinks.  Most enemy types who can see your 'mech aren't going to let it GET close if they can help it-and PL's in general (Inner sphere tech) kind of require close approach to function.

are you sure you have the model number right there? the stock Wraith is the prince of backstabbers, the 'mech the Assassin prays to wake up as at night. the large pulse is a very advantageous weapon for it, and the list of forces that can keep it from picking off a target is shorter than the waiting list to to be shot into space by catapult.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: LastChanceCav on 28 May 2012, 21:00:11
There's also not enough crits free on the TR1 Wraith (2) for a LPL -> LL + DHS swap ...

Cheers,
LCC
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Ian Sharpe on 28 May 2012, 21:19:41
Wraith has room for three or four more dhs in the engine.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Scotty on 28 May 2012, 21:21:57
Well that's wonderful if you can switch out an engine with the heatsinks already installed.  In the field, you're slightly more constrained.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Kovax on 30 May 2012, 09:07:40
There are uses for both the LL and the LPL, and each excells at one thing in particular.

The Wraith is sufficient justification by itself to prove that the LPL has a place in the arsenal, although I consider it a "specialty" weapon.  Generally, I'll take a LL over the LPL, except where either the firer or the target is expected to generate high movement modifiers and move into point-blank range.

So far, the discussion has been between a 5T weapon and a 7T weapon, rather than about a choice between a 7T weapon and 7T of equipment including the 5T weapon.  If that's NOT the real issue, then the discussion also needs to include all of those cases where 7T of primary weapon is simply not practical.

If you're using a LL, a MPL is useful to provide backup firepower against high TN targets, while a LPL with the same tonnage as both covers everything within spitting distance roughly as well, but nothing beyond 10 hexes.  The LL can hit out to 15, and will have the same to-hit odds as the LPL at 4 and 7-10 hexes.  The secondary MPL will double-cover the 1, 2, and 4 hex ranges with an additional 2/3 the damage of the LPL and identical to-hit numbers, so the LPL clearly beats the LL/MPL combination ONLY at a range of 3, and offers NO shot at 11-15 hexes.  The LL/MPL combo also allows you to choose between firing one, the other, or both, depending on range, to-hit odds, and heat concerns.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Iron Mongoose on 30 May 2012, 10:27:33
Though I think clear arguments can be made that the LL is the better all arounder of the two choices here, I tend to use the LPL more these days.  The LL compeats too much with its ER brother, PPCs, and other things.  The LPL does the thing that it does, a very narrow and limited thing to be sure, actualy very well.  As has been said, when you have total and absolute controll over when and how to fight (as in many super fast mechs) you can be sure to be able to exploit that sweet spot just so all the time.

But, I think LPLs shine on big giant assualts as bubble creating weapons.  You get a really nice exclusion zone at three hexes, since no one's foolish enough to prove all the LPL haters wrong by bumbling into short pulse range against a monster that they can easily avoid, and a second weeker zone at pulse medium range, where there's still a strong reluctance to face down a weapon with a nine point hit and no range mods.  On something like a Longbow or Grand Titan, its just what the doctor ordered.  The fact that it improves ever more as ranges close is especaly nice, vs something like a Snubbie, which makes no distinction between its 8-9 sweet spot and the 1-3 hex range that standard MLs love so well.  The LPL makes ML mechs think twice (though the weight advantage is enough that you can still cram so many MLs on a mech to just win on damage over all even if accuracy is down).

Old LLs are nice, but they don't really do anything specaly these days.  They don't have super long range, they're not very effective at super short range.  On an old PHawk, I wouldn't have anything else, but in the era where the LPL is an option, the other options are good enough that the LL is as much of a second choice weapon as the LPL is to most people anyway.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: bakija on 30 May 2012, 15:16:31
Yeah, see, the comparison between a Large Laser and a Large Pulse Laser isn't really cut and dry--the LL is 5 tons and the LPL is 7 tons. They have very similar BVs (123 and 119, I think, respectively), but the Large Laser gives you two more tons for something else along with it. If that two tons is two DHS, the LL is doing 8 damage for 4 net heat at solid mid ranges where the LPL is doing 9 damage for 10 net heat at short ranges, which makes the LL look a whole lot more efficient. You can't really freely swap them. And won't often be in a situation where you have to choose between a LL and an LPL (you are more likely to have to choose between an LPL and some sort of PPC, but as that comparison is apparently going to make people cranky, I won't continue it).

The LPL is good on mechs that have improved jump jets and can jump a good distance. And have back up targeting computers. Or really fast runny mechs. That have back up targeting computers. Basically, if you can move quickly and reliably get to R3 or closer to someone and the -2 to hit (and the additional -1 from the TC) will make shots effective while you are hard to hit for being fast and/or jumpy, the LPL is a reasonable gun.

The regular LL is a good heavy weapon on smaller mechs (why there isn't a good, 3025 canon 6/9 twenty ton mech with an LL and more or less max armor is something I'll never understand), and good in pairs on medium mechs (see: Crab, Starslayer). Once you start getting into heavy mechs, LLs generally start looking less effective than, ya know, PPCs or Gauss Rifles.

So if you are going to be a fast/jumpy mech that wants to get behind opponents at R3 or less, use the LPL. If you are a light or medium mech that needs some solid, mid range firepower, use the LL.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Orin J. on 30 May 2012, 15:27:06
(why there isn't a good, 3025 canon 6/9 twenty ton mech with an LL and more or less max armor is something I'll never understand)

because then you draw the fire of a lot of things that can chop your leg off in a single shot, and a 20-ton 'mechs best defense is not being enough of a threat at most times to draw that much fire.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: willydstyle on 30 May 2012, 15:35:52
because then you draw the fire of a lot of things that can chop your leg off in a single shot, and a 20-ton 'mechs best defense is not being enough of a threat at most times to draw that much fire.

Yep.  The Phoenix Hawk does the job better at 45 tons, and has the -1K variant if you don't want jump jets.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: bakija on 30 May 2012, 16:09:48
because then you draw the fire of a lot of things that can chop your leg off in a single shot, and a 20-ton 'mechs best defense is not being enough of a threat at most times to draw that much fire.

And yet there *is* a canon 20 ton mech with a Large Laser, a few more superfluous guns, and not remotely enough armor that moves 6/9...
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Nikas_Zekeval on 30 May 2012, 19:18:48
But, I think LPLs shine on big giant assualts as bubble creating weapons.  You get a really nice exclusion zone at three hexes, since no one's foolish enough to prove all the LPL haters wrong by bumbling into short pulse range against a monster that they can easily avoid, and a second weeker zone at pulse medium range, where there's still a strong reluctance to face down a weapon with a nine point hit and no range mods.  On something like a Longbow or Grand Titan, its just what the doctor ordered.  The fact that it improves ever more as ranges close is especaly nice, vs something like a Snubbie, which makes no distinction between its 8-9 sweet spot and the 1-3 hex range that standard MLs love so well.  The LPL makes ML mechs think twice (though the weight advantage is enough that you can still cram so many MLs on a mech to just win on damage over all even if accuracy is down).

The thing is, a LPL just doesn't have the 'fear factor' for a good 'bubble' weapon.  The AC/20 gets that rep for two reasons.  One, it is a head capper, a decently armored head won't even be penetrated by an IS LPL.  Two, even if it doesn't hit the head, there is a very large range of mechs where a single AC/20 blast can blow the armor off at least one non-head section and have enough power left over to force a crit check.  And a smaller but still significant number where a hit can take a whole section beside the head from pristine to mangled wreckage in a single hit.

A LPL just doesn't have the same one hit punch.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: mutantmagnet on 31 May 2012, 02:31:34
And yet there *is* a canon 20 ton mech with a Large Laser, a few more superfluous guns, and not remotely enough armor that moves 6/9...

Good thing you aren't talking about my Commando or Wolfhound  :P
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: bakija on 31 May 2012, 15:37:24
Good thing you aren't talking about my Commando or Wolfhound  :P

Wolfhound is probably the best light (? 30 tons, yes?) mech out there. And is packing an LL.

The Flea, on the other hand, is an atrocity, packing an LL, 2xSL, and a Flamer on a 6/9 20 tonner with a grand total of 2 tons of armor. If you look at it funny, its limbs fall off. If those SLs and Flamer were two more tons of armor, the Flea would be very solid, being a 6/9 20 tonner with 4 tons of armor. Which can fight other light mechs out of the range of their MLs. And 'cause problems for bigger mechs running a lot and fighting at R10 when there are more worrisome targets closer to shoot at. But as the Flea is, with only 2 tons of armor, I won't even both trying that.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Minemech on 31 May 2012, 16:35:21
Though I think clear arguments can be made that the LL is the better all arounder of the two choices here, I tend to use the LPL more these days.  The LL competes too much with its ER brother, PPCs, and other things.  The LPL does the thing that it does, a very narrow and limited thing to be sure, actualy very well.  As has been said, when you have total and absolute controll over when and how to fight (as in many super fast mechs) you can be sure to be able to exploit that sweet spot just so all the time.

But, I think LPLs shine on big giant assualts as bubble creating weapons.  You get a really nice exclusion zone at three hexes, since no one's foolish enough to prove all the LPL haters wrong by bumbling into short pulse range against a monster that they can easily avoid, and a second weeker zone at pulse medium range, where there's still a strong reluctance to face down a weapon with a nine point hit and no range mods.  On something like a Longbow or Grand Titan, its just what the doctor ordered.  The fact that it improves ever more as ranges close is especaly nice, vs something like a Snubbie, which makes no distinction between its 8-9 sweet spot and the 1-3 hex range that standard MLs love so well.  The LPL makes ML mechs think twice (though the weight advantage is enough that you can still cram so many MLs on a mech to just win on damage over all even if accuracy is down).

Old LLs are nice, but they don't really do anything specaly these days.  They don't have super long range, they're not very effective at super short range.  On an old PHawk, I wouldn't have anything else, but in the era where the LPL is an option, the other options are good enough that the LL is as much of a second choice weapon as the LPL is to most people anyway.
Well said, it is indeed an excellent weapon for zoning.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Kovax on 01 June 2012, 15:58:32
Wolfhound is probably the best light (? 30 tons, yes?) mech out there. And is packing an LL.

35T, actually, and the perfect "poster child" advertisement for any LL manufacturer.
Title: Re: Large laser or Large pulse??
Post by: Hellraiser on 04 June 2012, 05:09:11
LPL is good for Scout Hunting IMHO.   (See Wraith or Nightsky or Pixie-3S)

Its also good as back up weapon on assaults to discourage backstabbers.