MOTW Assassin

[Fear Factory]

It's a shame I don't really like any of them outside of the 21.  The 101, I have used on occasion, but I'm a fluff kind of guy so I understand that there are only a handful out there.  The 23 isn't that bad if you are playing an era specific game.  All the others are just not Assassins to me...  so much potential with all the weapons that exist and we get the 99 and 30.

For those interested, I have two variants that I use here.  The ASN-31 and ASN-21 "Archetype" X.  Archetype is actually my modern custom ride...  it's a fluff design.

[Matti]

I love Assassins... you just have to remember that their job isn't necessarily to after other mechs......

Starterbook: Sword and Dragon has Assassin in a player's force by default + in all RATs, and that book has nothing but 'Mech battles ::)

[Sabelkatten]

Actually, the Assassin does live up to it's name, but it requires that people do two things.
One is remember the rules it was written under, and two, stop thinking of mech vs. mech only, combat.....

At the time that the assassin was designed, the SRM2 was the ONLY launcher with infernos, and they pretty much could kill an ICE Hover..... IF you could hit it.....

With it's movement profile, the Assassin can go over trees, etc, that the hovers have to go around, and armed with Infernos, it can kill them in one hit......

I'm 99% certain that infernos didn't affect anything except mechs until the Compendium at the earliest... They were quite good at torching woods and other flammables, thought - like supply dumps. ;)

[Diablo48]

Starterbook: Sword and Dragon has Assassin in a player's force by default + in all RATs, and that book has nothing but 'Mech battles ::)

Yes, but how many Stingers and Wasps are there for it to bully?

[Scotty]

Starterbook: Sword and Dragon has Assassin in a player's force by default + in all RATs, and that book has nothing but 'Mech battles ::)

Yes, clearly this single source and scenario sourcebook is the be-all, end-all of how an Assassin should be deployed.

[Comedian]

Yes, clearly this single source and scenario sourcebook is the be-all, end-all of how an Assassin should be deployed.

Huh? Goes digging for "that" Starterbook.

(edit: wow more then 10 posts. Now to get back to the Levels I had on the old boards will take a little while.)

[mitchberthelson]

I love Assassins... you just have to remember that their job isn't necessarily to after other mechs......
Nahuris

I've used them for years as objective raiders. Frustrated the hell out of players in my RPG campaigns whenever they were on garrison and I sent one of these in after they were distracted by a diversionary attack. Hard to hit, crosses any ground quick, and just enough firepower to take out small vehicles or backstab slow 'Mechs. I also echo the "captain chaos" sentiment about the combo of this thing and the old inferno rules.

Finally, I remember making total mockeries out of the recon or objective missions in MW2 Mercenaries with this little guy. Those old jump jet mechanics were awesomely crazy. :)

I really think that the version with the Stealth Armor actually begs for tons of Rocket Launchers and maybe coolant pods so that you can sneak up, make one hell of a slashing pass, and then get out of dodge while everyone's still shaking off the shock. :)

[Sabelkatten]

I remember making a version with stealth armor, MASC, and a bunch of small lasers hooked to a TC. The idea being to actually assassinate enemy mechs - sneak up to them using stealth, dash in the last distance using MASC, then blow out a rear torso location using aimed shots with all the lasers.

[ItsTehPope]

I remember making a version with stealth armor, MASC, and a bunch of small lasers hooked to a TC. The idea being to actually assassinate enemy mechs - sneak up to them using stealth, dash in the last distance using MASC, then blow out a rear torso location using aimed shots with all the lasers.

In other words, an IS close of the Phantom C?

[Scotty]

Or Fire Moth H.

[Sabelkatten]

With stealth armor. 8)

[Nikas_Zekeval]

I've used them for years as objective raiders. Frustrated the hell out of players in my RPG campaigns whenever they were on garrison and I sent one of these in after they were distracted by a diversionary attack. Hard to hit, crosses any ground quick, and just enough firepower to take out small vehicles or backstab slow 'Mechs. I also echo the "captain chaos" sentiment about the combo of this thing and the old inferno rules.

I'd load up the SRM with infernos if sending an Assassin off on this kind of mission.  Get in, torch his supplies, rear area troops, and base camp.  Then run like hell before a typical player's 'Wall of Steel' can turn around, much less engage your raiding Assassin.  Unless there is no where safe for it to land, an Assassin in full flight is a +4 to hit (ground or full jump), if it can avoid short range that will put it at 10+ to hit for a regular gunner, plus shooter's movement mod and any screening terrain.

[Nahuris]

I'm 99% certain that infernos didn't affect anything except mechs until the Compendium at the earliest... They were quite good at torching woods and other flammables, thought - like supply dumps. ;)

If I remember correctly, and with the few books that survived my house fire last year still in storage, I am having to rely totally on memory.... so if anyone has the rules, please jump in......... it had to do with heat. Any ICE vehicle was considered destroyed if it had even 1 point of heat at the end of a turn, and being hit with infernos gave you 6 heat ----- being in a burning hex gave you 5, and being in an adjacent hex to a burning hex gave you 2.......
A lot of vehicles in the 3026 book do not have any heat sinks..... since they don't need them for ammo using weapons.
And, of course, being infantry in a burning hex is just all kinds of bad .....

Nahuris

[Beazle]

If I remember correctly, and with the few books that survived my house fire last year still in storage, I am having to rely totally on memory.... so if anyone has the rules, please jump in......... it had to do with heat. Any ICE vehicle was considered destroyed if it had even 1 point of heat at the end of a turn, and being hit with infernos gave you 6 heat ----- being in a burning hex gave you 5, and being in an adjacent hex to a burning hex gave you 2.......
A lot of vehicles in the 3026 book do not have any heat sinks..... since they don't need them for ammo using weapons.
And, of course, being infantry in a burning hex is just all kinds of bad .....

Studentoftruth

I have a vague recollection of this being true.  Don't ask me in what version that was though.

All my really old books are in storage on the mainland though, so I can't confirm.

[Charlie Tango]

I went and dug through my library of books.  The first rules for Infernos I can find are in the Battletech Manual (copyright 1987).  Inferno missiles affect 'Mechs and set fires, however any vehicle in a hex on fire must roll an 8+ to survive.  Doesn't say one way or the other about hitting a vehicle with an Inferno round.  However, Inferno Bombs (dropped from ASFs or conventional fighters) do destroy any vehicle in the hex it hits and make an 8+ roll for vehicles in the surrounding hexes. 

The Battletech Compendium has the "8+ roll for 3 turns" rule that vehicle players all came to loathe explicitly spelled out.


OK, back on topic now...

[Nahuris]

I went and dug through my library of books.  The first rules for Infernos I can find are in the Battletech Manual (copyright 1987).  Inferno missiles affect 'Mechs and set fires, however any vehicle in a hex on fire must roll an 8+ to survive.  Doesn't say one way or the other about hitting a vehicle with an Inferno round.  However, Inferno Bombs (dropped from ASFs or conventional fighters) do destroy any vehicle in the hex it hits and make an 8+ roll for vehicles in the surrounding hexes. 

The Battletech Compendium has the "8+ roll for 3 turns" rule that vehicle players all came to loathe explicitly spelled out.


OK, back on topic now...

Thanks C.T.

And that's why I have always considered the Assassin to be a carry over from early attempts at combined arms warfare. It was just that early on, battletech players went the path of " I killz your mech with my mech" and that was that.  I know that the 7 year campaign that I ran in Virginia, during the 90's, ran into some issues with that. I had players that wanted to use tanks or infantry, and the unit commander absolutely forbid them..... and would also get extremely upset if they faced vehicles.... especially if they damaged the commander's Marauder. That was a total death sentence....... said vehicle would be fired on until every last point of it's existence was destroyed.

The assassin always seemed tailor made for hunting hovers, and ruining infantry's day, at least in my opinion. The ability to jump over terrain that hovers had to go around made up for any slight speed difference.

Nahuris

[Matti]

And that's why I have always considered the Assassin to be a carry over from early attempts at combined arms warfare. It was just that early on, battletech players went the path of " I killz your mech with my mech" and that was that.  I know that the 7 year campaign that I ran in Virginia, during the 90's, ran into some issues with that. I had players that wanted to use tanks or infantry, and the unit commander absolutely forbid them..... and would also get extremely upset if they faced vehicles.... especially if they damaged the commander's Marauder. That was a total death sentence....... said vehicle would be fired on until every last point of it's existence was destroyed.

Know what is funny here? That in-universe there are some commanders with just that kind of attitude :D

[daeceg]

I'm always drawing parallels to the Shadowhawk for some reason...

I have used the LB-5X version willingly (yeah, I do have a masochistic streak---I also played Cappie during the Reign of Davion Fiat), and successfully as a vehicle hunter-killer.  I kamikazied through my opponent's lines to line up disabling shots on his arty tanks.  (Demolisher AIVs)  Managed to TAC-ammo one, and slow the other one down (okay--didn't make that much of a difference with that one)...and absorbed 4 Arrow rounds that could have been more productively used downrange at my clustered assault line.

Is it wrong to use a machine as mobile decoy?  Well, I'm the guy who painted up a Fireball like Pikachu (complete with tail)...great fun watching people waste copious amounts of Gauss ammo

[Diablo48]

I'm always drawing parallels to the Shadowhawk for some reason...

I have used the LB-5X version willingly (yeah, I do have a masochistic streak---I also played Cappie during the Reign of Davion Fiat), and successfully as a vehicle hunter-killer.  I kamikazied through my opponent's lines to line up disabling shots on his arty tanks.  (Demolisher AIVs)  Managed to TAC-ammo one, and slow the other one down (okay--didn't make that much of a difference with that one)...and absorbed 4 Arrow rounds that could have been more productively used downrange at my clustered assault line.

Is it wrong to use a machine as mobile decoy?  Well, I'm the guy who painted up a Fireball like Pikachu (complete with tail)...great fun watching people waste copious amounts of Gauss ammo

Honestly, given what you did with that thing I would not call it a decoy.  You tore out half your opponent's artillery battery, slowed the other half, and drew a fair amount of artillery fire off the main battle line all with one 'Mech.  That makes it an effective strike in my book.

[anime ninja]

I remember using the Assassin, I striped out the LRM launcher and added more armour and a second ML, it become a great bug killer.  I would have removed the SRM and kept the LRM but I wanted to be able to use inferno rounds.

[Nahuris]

I'm always drawing parallels to the Shadowhawk for some reason...

I have used the LB-5X version willingly (yeah, I do have a masochistic streak---I also played Cappie during the Reign of Davion Fiat), and successfully as a vehicle hunter-killer.  I kamikazied through my opponent's lines to line up disabling shots on his arty tanks.  (Demolisher AIVs)  Managed to TAC-ammo one, and slow the other one down (okay--didn't make that much of a difference with that one)...and absorbed 4 Arrow rounds that could have been more productively used downrange at my clustered assault line.

Is it wrong to use a machine as mobile decoy?  Well, I'm the guy who painted up a Fireball like Pikachu (complete with tail)...great fun watching people waste copious amounts of Gauss ammo

Again, this is an example of a well used mech ---- does the Assassin have weaknesses, yes.... but used as a team player, rather than a stand alone duelist, it can get the job done.

Nahuris

[CrossfirePilot]

And its always fun in 3025 to be zipping around at 7/11/7 speeds with only enough firepower to be annoying.

[Comedian]

Use a Spider.

 >:D

[Nahuris]

Use a Spider.

 >:D

Sure, as long as my opponent is willing to be slow or stupid, and let me keep him in my narrower firing arc while zipping all over the place, along with giving up infernos, and specialty LRM ammo ......

That's the reason I LIKE the Assassin, I can use one with Narc ammo to help my Raven, or..... Infernos....etc.

Could the mech be designed better? Yes, but then again, so can any mech, with the exception of the Spider...... there's no help for that one.... his best hope is that his opponent doesn't use reflective armor, and is willing to be predictable so the spider can keep him in range and within fire arcs......

Nahuris

[Headshot]

Seriously, firing arc?
Something like the Spider only dips in when it has initiative, and then it has the speed to still put two turns into a ten hex sprint. Or it jumps in, and then arc matters only when it offers someone else its backside.

Besides, two of the Assassins three weapons are torso mounted too...

[Nahuris]

Seriously, firing arc?
Something like the Spider only dips in when it has initiative, and then it has the speed to still put two turns into a ten hex sprint. Or it jumps in, and then arc matters only when it offers someone else its backside.

Besides, two of the Assassins three weapons are torso mounted too...

Every time I've fielded the Spider, the other side has either had a Jenner, or something like a Talon, where the firing arc matters......
That, or LBX ..

Plus, with a range of only 9 hexes, and the fire arc limitation, you get torn up with mechs like the Phoenix hawk, or others with arm mounted weapons that can generate similar target numbers, as it forces you to use your short range, and you won't have the armor to take even lucky shots.....

Every Spider I have ever fielded has been a casualty.... and since I seem to have no issues with Assassins, Jenners, Locusts, or other lights.... well, that's answer enough for me.

Nahuris

[LordChaos]

When it comes to the Assassin, I can best sum up my feelings for them mech this way:

I have never, in all my years playing basic battletech, going back to before the clans were introduced, said to myself "boy, I really wish I had an assassin right now".  I have never even said to myself "you know, this lance needs an assassin to round it out".  In fact, the Assassin has the honor of my never (until the last 2 box sets) even owning a mini of it, something that only 1 other mech dating back that far can share (the Ostol - and that's esthetics)

Now, if I was playing a RPG, the Assassin would be high up on my list of mechs I'd like.  But in the board game?  nope... never used one, don't see any reason to ever use one.

[Fallen_Raven]

When it comes to the Assassin, I can best sum up my feelings for them mech this way:

I have never, in all my years playing basic battletech, going back to before the clans were introduced, said to myself "boy, I really wish I had an assassin right now".  I have never even said to myself "you know, this lance needs an assassin to round it out".  In fact, the Assassin has the honor of my never (until the last 2 box sets) even owning a mini of it, something that only 1 other mech dating back that far can share (the Ostol - and that's esthetics)

I look at it more from the angle of, is this a lance that an Assasin wouldn't work in. The answer is frequently yes, but mostly in heavy units. If I want a recon lance, or anything that need a fast movement, I rarely look at my options and say "the Assasin won't fit in."

I guess I tend to select 'mechs based on what I have available (which isn't much based off minis) rather than what I would like to have.

[Demon55]

I have never had an Assassin do much damage, but they can be an annoyance. 

[mutantsix]

My group only allows canon variants and for the love of pete, this is an awesome model but needs a better SW variant.

A variant I would love to use removes the LRM5 and replaces with another SRM2, Medium Laser and a ton of armor. The assassin was designed to kill bug mechs and this has twice the firepower of the standard Wasp.

Pretty please CGL :)