Author Topic: Repost: Mech of the Week redux: Gargoyle / Man O' War (9/12/2008) - by jymset  (Read 19578 times)

wantec

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3876
Hey folks, jymset said he was gonna repost this, but since someone started a new thread asking about the Gargoyle I thought I'd go ahead and repost his MotW article for him and everyone else.




This is jymset Hazen reporting, once again, from the Jade Falcon Watch. Today’s report is an update on CoyoteWarDog’s older article (zip archive 4). The ‘Mech is of high personal value to me, so please forgive me if I will leave self-discipline at the wayside and allow some emotions to shine through.

To properly explain myself before I start the report: My love affair with the two humanoid Assault Omnis of 3050 started when I first flipped through the book. Being a typical Falcon, speed is everything to me and the Executioner was the ultimate epitome of that philosophy. Yet the Gargoyle, with its symmetry and no-nonsense looks, much less playful than the larger design, had a fascination of its own. The report on our fellow Invading Clans featured a Smoke Jaguar Gargoyle prowling through the woods of Wolcott – no other image in that volume remained as iconic to me (Invading Clans, p.73). In the phase when I tested the simulators [MW2], and was set on using only standard configurations, no other ‘Mech served me better than the Gargoyle A or C. And the single Gargoyle listed in the entire Cluster that was the first Falcon Guards, piloted by MechWarrior Braghero as it followed Star Colonel Adler Malthus to its doom (Twycross, p.18), was the final seal of a life-long fascination with this design.

Yet Iron Mongoose’s absolutely astonishing article on the original Clan Omnis originally forgot to make mention of the Gargoyle! And CoyoteWarDog’s report on this chassis came to the conclusion that it was “the Clan version of the Charger: Too over-engined and under-armed to be effective.” Truly, that is a great stigma!

The Gargoyle suffers primarily because it was introduced to the Inner Sphere at the same time as the Timber Wolf. This allows for an instant and direct comparison to a design 5 tons lighter and more efficiently constructed. Add to this the fact that the 75-ton range is better suited to an 86 kph top speed, et voila, the lighter design offers anything the Gargoyle can achieve with an extra ton of FF armour and 6 tons pod space to spare.

The crux of the matter is, the Gargoyle was actually developed in conjunction with the Timber Wolf. Both Omnis were created by Clan Wolf as a joint programme in the 2940s to replace the – as yet – mysterious Woodsman, putting them in even closer proximity in the universe.

Yet, unlike the Timber Wolf, the Gargoyle did see proliferation. In the 3070s, it is built by Clans Wolf and Hell’s Horses, and is heavily used by the Ice Hellions, while also seeing service in the ranks of the Coyotes, Fire Mandrills, Smoke Jaguars (see above) and generally everyone who feels the need for it!

The armour, while not as optimised as on its lighter partner and nemesis, is very respectable. 11 tons of Clan Ferro Fibrous armour equate to more than 13 tons of standard armour, more than the majority of IS 80-tonner carried in 3025. Now, I already laid out my smart armour doctrine in the treatment of my first reported ‘Mech, the Mist Lynx (excursion 2). To that, I would add the qualifier, that once the general average of armour protection surpasses 20 points on any given location, the armour no longer needs to be weighed against specific damage profiles of weapons (as was all-important for the review of the Kit Fox, ultimately leading to condemnation). 20 points will guarantee a little staying time on any battlefield; any prolonged combat will turn any predicted damage patterns into pure conjecture. No, with heavier ‘Mechs that have decent, yet not maximum armour protection, I feel that the most important factor for any sort of evaluation is allocation prioritisation. What does that mean? Well, as a percentage of maximum armour, the Gargoyle carries:

H: 100%
CT: 80%
R/LT: 100%
R/LA: 88.5%
R/LL: 70.6%

Now, I am pleasantly surprised with the armour on the limbs. As we will see shortly, the arms are very important to the Gargoyle. I also think that legs – especially on Clan ‘Mechs, which should generally stay away from point-blank ranges – need to be the last thing that receives 100% armour, so I really do like the decision to save a little bit of weight on the legs. The side armour surprises me somewhat; one could have possibly reduced it by a few points and added those to the CT. Nevertheless, if one remembers that these tend to have the weakest protection (remember the Executioner!), this does not pose a problem. When factoring this allocation prioritisation into the decent total absolute armour weight of the Gargoyle, I am fully willing to give it my hearty approval. The Gargoyle is well protected!

The 5/8 movement alone puts the Gargoyle into competition with the heavy (not assault) OmniMechs of 3050. The very negative comparison to the Timber Wolf should not be reason enough to condemn the Gargoyle into oblivion. Once you leave out this ubiquitous design, it compares much more favourably. Its speed is up to par with all the other designs. Its armour is a marked improvement. Its integral heat dissipation capacity is far superior. Unlike CoyoteWarDog, I do not mind fixed heat sinks, as long as they are allocated to the engine. It only becomes painfully clear that the 6 extra tons were not there to be spared in the first place: 21.5 tons of pod space is truly anemic by any standards. In 3050, any ‘Mech heavier than the Nova, had more weight to spare!

Nevertheless, 21.5 tons of Clan weaponry can put out a world of hurt. There are two philosophies towards OmniMechs. While I fully respect the people who like to judge the chassis on its inbuilt merits, I would argue that it is a point of view which instantly renders at least 1/3 of the 41 canon Clan OmniMechs redundant. In these articles, canon ‘Mechs are discussed. And the configurations published in official materials (in this case TRO: 3050U) are the only standards we should be able to use in our evaluation.

Hence, I argue that any and all OmniMechs are only as good as their configurations. Thus, without further ado, we shall evaluate that what we are given!

Primary Configuration – 2 LB5-X (40), 2 SRM6 (30), ERSL. It is this configuration – purportedly the golden standard – that was the final nail in the Gargoyle’s coffin. The armament, in terms of damage output, is quite laughable for anything heavier than a light ‘Mech. This suffers on any standard: it is extremely oversinked, it causes little overall damage, it causes miniscule damage medium to long ranges, all its guns rely on ammo, with little to no back-up.
Nevertheless, I could maybe accept the configuration if someone was to tell me that the Solaris VII boxed set was being prepared at the same time as TRO:3050. Someone once asked me to make any sort of sense of the configurations, and I replied by reminding him of the dueling rules. Turns are split into 4 sub-turns, with a chance to move and fire normally (ranges were quadrupled, a hex being a quarter of the size of a normal BT one). Many of the weapons, however, had a certain recycling time. Not so the LB-5X or the SRM6, meaning that the Gargoyle Prime could effectively fire its entire arsenal up to four times. This in turn would cause something like 40-50 heat if the result was converted back into standard CBT gaming terms. Suddenly, this configuration had turned into one of the best duelers out there. And its BV2 is a mere 1537 – less than half of the Warhawk Prime’s.
Thus, even though it is an absolute dud in CBT play, not much good at anything apart from supporting other star members when facing combined-arms actions, it is still the ‘Mech I see Ulric Kerensky in, as he was marching off into his death in Borealtown, on December 10th, 3057. He thought he was facing an Executioner in honourable single combat.

Configuration A – 2 ERPPC, LPL, MPL, ERML, ERSL. On this configuration, I respectfully, yet completely disagree with CWD who said there was “Nothing to write home about here.” This configuration is simply fantastic. Basically, with the limited pod space, all-energy configurations will always face the choice of being very efficient yet undergunned or facing overheating problems. This is the latter, the D is the former, both are great. There is redundancy, sure, either fire both ERPPCs (and the MPL), or just one and all the lasers. Either way, it will reliably do a lot of damage at great ranges and/or with great accuracy. To date, this is still probably my favourite configuration.

Configuration B – Gauss (16), LRM10/artIV (12), SRM4/artIV (25). Unlike the Prime, this one does not have any redeeming qualities or even sensible explanations. Every drawback of the Prime is present here, also. Plus there is the additional sin of investing in Artemis IV on missile launchers that are much too small – when the pod space is extremely limited in the first place! That Gauss rifle needed backing by a bevy of lasers to make sense on the chassis in the first place. Truly, more so than the Prime, this is the dud of the lot, head-capper or not.

Configuration C – UAC20 (10), 6 ERML, 3 A-Pods. A Stormcrow B on steroids. Not a bad thing. Mounting more heat sinks and armour, it truly is superior to the medium (admittedly not necessarily 25 tons better…). It is easy to pilot, there are no questions about its role or efficiency.

Configuration D – 2 ERLL, 3 MPL, ERSL, tarcomp, 4 DHS. CWD missed the targeting computer in his original evaluation. When this is coupled with the solid weaponry and the fact that it is the first Gargoyle to pod-mount additional heat sinks, it turns the ‘Mech into a fiercely accurate alpha-striker. This was first published in RS: Upgrades, at a time when most of the other OmniMechs received ATM variants. Maybe the Gargoyle was not ready at that time. Maybe this was an update on a further variant which could well have deployed during the initial invasion, a rather scary thought.

Configuration E – ATM12 (15), SSRM6 (15), 4 HML, 2 ERµL, tarcomp, 2 DHS. And then, TRO:3050U tells us that the Gargoyle is ready for ATMs, after all. In fact, this configuration turned out so fierce, that the Coyote Khan Silas Kufahl preferred it to his normal Savage Coyote in the Trial of Grievance against Cloud Cobra Khan Kardaan. And I fully believe it to be capable of besting a Warhawk Prime. The ATM will probably normally be loaded up with HE ammo, with just a token ton of ER missiles. The HML, with their targeting computer as accurate as the other weapons, will combine perfectly with the HE ATM and deliver a punch that will make the opponent’s ancestors dizzy (to paraphrase Yao)! In close ranged brawls this easily rivals the AC20 variants in power.

Configuration G – LB20-X (15), 4 ERML, 3 AP-Gauss (40). Speaking of AC20s. A configuration specifically tailored to the needs of the Ice Hellions, the Gargoyle G really puts a new spin on the power of the now-destroyed Hellion Touman. The Jade Falcon Jupiters would only have had an easy job when not facing these monsters! Essentially, this is a Gargoyle C that is improved in every possible way. By dropping 2 ERML and swapping the AC20 type, the model gained endurance, flexibility and heat efficiency. And 3 AP-Gauss compared to 3 A-Pods? No contest! With this configuration, the Gargoyle has reached something of an epitome of effective pod configuration. Now all that remains to be seen, is whether there is an “F” on the horizon – that jump of a letter is rather mysterious, especially as the Hellions would have more warranted the label “I”, or…

Configuration H – UAC10 (20), LRM10 (12), HLL, 2 ERML. An older variant, it was the first to strike up the balance between power and efficiency. Truly, in my battles it has served me well, filling a role similar to other heavy Clan Omnis. It is also one of the few configurations that manages to make more of the 21.5 tons of space which is “rarely enough to allow the Man-o’-War to mount more than one heavy-hitting assault weapon.” (TRO: 3050U, p.138) The AC10 and HLL are a nice 1-2 punch which is even nicely supported by the missiles and ML.

Configuration M – ERPPC, HAG20 (18), 3 SRM2 (50). This, the last of new configurations of 3050U, would be the other variant to mount two BFGs. Yet, while great on paper, it left me somewhat underwhelmed on the table. Personally, I am quite fond of HAGs, but I feel they need to be supported to become a real threat. A single ERPPC makes for nice but not particularly convincing back-up. As a result, this is a nice configuration, relatively capable and heat efficient at all ranges, with good endurance to boot – but it lacks the punch or the flexibility of most of the other variants (discounting the two duds, of course!).

Now one thing, that is also very important to remember, is the location of these weapons. Both TROs always highlighted the fact that most of all configurations’ weapons are mounted in the arms. Which would explain my fondness of the good armour protection on those limbs. And this is one of the few factors that sets it apart from the Timber Wolf and makes it better at a certain role: that of a heavy Battle Armour transport. Even the later variants (which do mount a small portion of their guns in the torsos) will remain almost 100% combat effective when carrying a point of elementals. In this role, it excels, in this role it is easy to see why it was so endearing to Clan Hell’s Horses!

Considering all this, the likening to the Charger is not really all that appropriate. Even when put next to the upgraded IS ‘Mech, it is vastly superior in terms of armour and firepower, once its 21.5 tons of pod space are utilised wisely. And they are, in many configurations.

I hope that this article has given some of you a new passion for this oft-ignored design – or will at least encourage you to re-evaluate it!

Here's a link to the original thread: http://www.classicbattletech.com/forumarchive/index.php/topic,40627.msg980050.html#msg980050
« Last Edit: 11 May 2011, 13:29:20 by wantec »
BEN ROME YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD, I READ YOUR BOOK!


jymset

  • Infinita Navitas & RecGuide Developer
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1529
  • the one and only
:-\ I'd have preferred for this to appear with proper editing and possibly a once-over...

But there you go, folks - I love me my Gargoyle!
On CGL writing: Caught between a writer's block and a Herb place. (cray)

Nicest writing compliment ever: I know [redacted] doesn't like continuity porn, but I do, and you sir, write some great continuity porn! (MadCapellan)

3055 rocks! Did so when I was a n00b, does so now.

wantec

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3876
my bad, if you see anything you wanted to change I can go in and edit the first post.  :-[

I've updated it with the links that didn't want to show up and removed the quote block
BEN ROME YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD, I READ YOUR BOOK!


Arkansas Warrior

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9210
The E would be a nice config for Grand Melees.  As a Gargoyle, it's not highly feared generally, but this config can rip someone open in close, or viciously exploit existing damage later in the round.  And the BV's not that bad, so you can take a better pilot than most of the other Assault drivers if you're balancing that way.
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

MattV

  • Recruit
  • *
  • Posts: 8
I seem to recall someone saying that the Prime was perfectly optimized for the job of slaughtering vehicles, with all those fun floating movement crit seekers...

Deadborder

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7883
  • Technical Victory!
    • Elmer Studios Blog
I've found that Man O' War A is one of the best one-on-one duelists out there; its ability to do a rediculous amount of damage in a short burst, albiet tempered by a monster god killer heat curve. Otherwise, it's a mech that I don't really have much love for. Its not bad per se, just... not that good.
Author of BattleCorps stories Grand Theft Agro and Zero Signal



How to Draw MegaMek Icons the Deadborder Way. Over 9000 so far. Determination or madness?

GreekFire

  • Aeternus Ignis
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3881
I think this deserves a bump. It's been a while, a very long while.

The 3145 Record Sheets gave us a new configuration, the "T". This modern variant once again splits most of its weaponry between its two arms; a staggering six ER Medium Lasers in the right arm and an ATM/9 (30 - protected by CASE II) and a TSEMP in the left. A single Small Pulse Laser riding centerline gives this Gargoyle a hint of anti-infantry firepower.

I'm not sure what its ideal use would be; I find that the combination of ER Mediums and ATM missiles work well against Elementals and their ilk, while a TSEMP-induced shutdown could be capitalized on by spamming those lasers and that ATM while aiming either high or low. Maybe it's a bit of a generalist, and that's OK. But one thing is certain: the "T" continues the theme of making the Gargoyle a mid-range fighter, one with few options at truly long ranges.
Tu habites au Québec? Tu veux jouer au BattleTech? Envoie-moi un message!

cold1

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4881
  • Goon
Another mediocre odd generalist on the Gargoyle chassis

With the love of super chargers in NTNU... I mean was there a better candidate (ok yes the Executioner might be)

I love the chassis for reasons not even I understand.  Off hand can't you get a Prime 2.0 twin PPC/twin SRM and an SC?  Or for new toys iHLL's and ATMs? 

Seems a little meh to me


To the patient go the spoils

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28993
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Heh . . . I LOVE Gargoyles in BV play, because they are one of the better deals among the Clan mechs- even with BV2 changes.

One thing not mentioned by the Prime was because the mech had such a high heat load it could wander around in fire without really worrying about the ammo.  So that FRR armor battalion thinks they can make a fire break to get some separation from the Wolf forces during the invasion- throwing out infernos and lighting the woods up?  The Prime comes out screaming 'ENFUEGO!' while it pumps Inferno SRMs right back at the nearest armor units and the cluster guns start immobilizing tanks further away that are trying to run.

It can take engine crits and laugh . . . and I have had it do so.

For the D?  Many players I know consider it as being around during the Invasion

One of the few Omnis mounting the big gun, I do wish we had a earlier configuration with the LBX but eh . . .
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Another mediocre odd generalist on the Gargoyle chassis

With the love of super chargers in NTNU... I mean was there a better candidate (ok yes the Executioner might be)

I love the chassis for reasons not even I understand.  Off hand can't you get a Prime 2.0 twin PPC/twin SRM and an SC?  Or for new toys iHLL's and ATMs? 

Seems a little meh to me
What the heck is an "SC"? I can't figure out what it is and it bothers me.

cold1

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4881
  • Goon
Super charger
Make a 5/8 mech go 5/8(10).  Like MASC but when you fail the activation roll it damages the power plant.  It can be pod mounted on omnis.  Costs 1/10th engine weight I believe, 1 crit.



To the patient go the spoils

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
/facepalm
I kept thinking it was a weapon or a typo. Yet i could not figure what it was, very frustrating.
Of course, it would be a piece of equipment, and one i keep using for various custom designs... I just don't use its abbreviation usually.

cold1

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4881
  • Goon
Sorry, I'm a car guy and on all the automotive forums SC is widley used.
It trickles over

The Gargoyle suffers from too much character.  It doesn't have any awesome knock out configs (ok the A maybe) it could use one straight badass mauler layout.


To the patient go the spoils

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
"Mauler" loadout? The mech or "i have a lot of punch" loadout?
Probably the latter, considering the Gargoyle does not have terribly much podspace to replicate a Mauler-like loadout?
...
Ah, we need Gargoyle workshop...

cold1

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4881
  • Goon
mauler not Mauler

Gargoyle workshop does exist... it's called SSW on cold1's laptop (ok to be fair there are more Night Gyrs and Blood Asps and Ebon Jags in my files)



To the patient go the spoils

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9121
Lack of capitalization doesn't mean anything in the internet  :D

Besides, borderline-Mauler config is possible with the Gargoyle, though it is limited to single pair of ACs and Medium Lasers.
On the positive note, it has low Battle Value for a Clan mech and runs heat neutral.

Savage Coyote

  • CamoSpecs
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2899
  • 저는 미술 선생님 입니다.
Sorry, I'm a car guy and on all the automotive forums SC is widley used.
It trickles over

The Gargoyle suffers from too much character.  It doesn't have any awesome knock out configs (ok the A maybe) it could use one straight badass mauler layout.

The E is that config.  I dropped two Timber Wolves, a Warhawks C, and a Turkina something another in a battle royal I ran several years ago.  One of the Timber Wolves and the Turkina were more clean up and luck, but I earned the other two, with the Warhawk nearly killing it.  While it was two maps, which allowed it to get close, it still absolutely murdered those other guys.  It's silly crazy what it can do!

As for the T, I've been testing TSEMP's and have found them to be entertaining at least.  Six ERML's with an ATM-9 are nothing to laugh at either...

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28993
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
You know usually a UAC/20 would be considered a punching weapon/design, lol.

But yeah, I think a SC design using Heavy Medium Lasers & TC would work out well- use that heat and open crit space to the max.  Perhaps expanded from the Huntsman H design, some ERLL with a Nova H like battery of HMLs.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

cold1

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4881
  • Goon
ERLL's and HML's
LRM's and HLL's
PPC's and SRM's

Any of these with a super charger in the mix is solid. 



To the patient go the spoils

Alanith

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 72
I seem to recall someone saying that the Prime was perfectly optimized for the job of slaughtering vehicles, with all those fun floating movement crit seekers...

Absolutely. You have to remember the Gargoyle is a Clan Wolf design, and unlike some other clans I could name, they weren't under any delusions that the masses of conventional units in the armies of the Successor states were just going to roll over and die the moment they got their first glimpse of the glorious Truebirths and their superior technology. The paired LB 5-X's allow you to snipe at targets from beyond the range of almost any Succession War vehicle, (Or most mechs of that time period for that matter, if your starmates are busy), while the twin SRM racks let you close in and spray inferno warheads all over that perfectly good battalion of hover tanks. Personally I would probably have added a flamer instead of the ER Small laser. Lets be honest, short of introtech Bugs, you're weren't going to be driving anything off with that if your ammo bins are dry, and it'd give you some utility against the PBI if your Elementals are busy.

Rage

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 172
Absolutely. You have to remember the Gargoyle is a Clan Wolf design, and unlike some other clans I could name, they weren't under any delusions that the masses of conventional units in the armies of the Successor states were just going to roll over and die the moment they got their first glimpse of the glorious Truebirths and their superior technology. The paired LB 5-X's allow you to snipe at targets from beyond the range of almost any Succession War vehicle, (Or most mechs of that time period for that matter, if your starmates are busy), while the twin SRM racks let you close in and spray inferno warheads all over that perfectly good battalion of hover tanks. Personally I would probably have added a flamer instead of the ER Small laser. Lets be honest, short of introtech Bugs, you're weren't going to be driving anything off with that if your ammo bins are dry, and it'd give you some utility against the PBI if your Elementals are busy.

Right. They designed this to face down conventional Inner Sphere forces at the tail end of the Golden Century and a time where they wanted to hide in the Kerensky Cluster with their heads in the sand. ::)

If anything, the Primary was designed to support and fight against Elementals. It just lucked out in a major way during Operation Revival when it proved itself capable of taking down just about anything outside of a decently armed and armored BattleMech.

wantec

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3876
Right. They designed this to face down conventional Inner Sphere forces at the tail end of the Golden Century and a time where they wanted to hide in the Kerensky Cluster with their heads in the sand. ::)

If anything, the Primary was designed to support and fight against Elementals. It just lucked out in a major way during Operation Revival when it proved itself capable of taking down just about anything outside of a decently armed and armored BattleMech.
(This is not just to you since you know it, but to everyone). The TROs are written from an IS perspective and for at least TRO 3050, the variants were listed in how often they were seen during the invasion and the battle for Tukayyid, not how frequently the Clans used them in the homeworlds or prior to the invasion.

Most likely the reason they weren't reordered later on was to avoid confusion by players.
BEN ROME YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD, I READ YOUR BOOK!


cold1

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4881
  • Goon
Yep, what he said!

I still would love to pick the brains of the original design team.  All those hard mounted heat sinks makes me think the Gargolye prime originally mounted PPC's instead of the scatter guns and they made a late change to either showcase the tech or give the clans and anti tank mech.  Most of the original clan omnis draw a parallel to an Inner Sphere mech and I always wondered if the Gargoyle was the ancestor of a popular 80 ton Star League mech that used twin peepers and SRMs, it's not the Charger IIC it's the Thug IIC.

The other comparisons I often make are Timby-Marauder, Hellbringer-Warhammer, Summoner-Thud, Mad Dog-Archer... since each of these look a little similar to the other and play similar roles.  C'mon you never noticed the unseen Archer and Mad Dog have the same weird bulbous center torso with the little cockpit on top surrounded my LRM racks???

My natural progression (of baseless speculation) was the Gargoyle is the Clan Thug but somebody switched the guns late.  Purely circumstantial.

Regardless the Malthus variant is canon so I get my PPC and SRM Gargoyle for non-custom games.



To the patient go the spoils

GreekFire

  • Aeternus Ignis
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3881
Absolutely. You have to remember the Gargoyle is a Clan Wolf design, and unlike some other clans I could name, they weren't under any delusions that the masses of conventional units in the armies of the Successor states were just going to roll over and die the moment they got their first glimpse of the glorious Truebirths and their superior technology. The paired LB 5-X's allow you to snipe at targets from beyond the range of almost any Succession War vehicle, (Or most mechs of that time period for that matter, if your starmates are busy), while the twin SRM racks let you close in and spray inferno warheads all over that perfectly good battalion of hover tanks. Personally I would probably have added a flamer instead of the ER Small laser. Lets be honest, short of introtech Bugs, you're weren't going to be driving anything off with that if your ammo bins are dry, and it'd give you some utility against the PBI if your Elementals are busy.

I'll actually (partially) disagree on this. Yes, it does fantastically against vehicles, but it's also a potent duelist. Out of universe, its amazingly cheap BV lets you stick an elite 1/1 pilot in it for the price of a standard 3/4 Timber Wolf Prime...and if you use those LB-X and SRMs to aim high, that Timer Wolf is going to have an absolutely terrible time. It's not as good as some of the SSRM-6 boats out there, but its inherent cheapness can get you quite far.

In a non-BV environment, the Gargoyle Prime can work around certain in-universe bidding tricks...you say you're bringing an assault, but it turns out to be a 5/8 oversized heavy. That (depending on who's doing the piloting) can already give you an advantage against the slower 4/6 or 3/5 assaults out there, and if you can choose the terrain then fighting in the hottest terrain possible can give you even more of an edge. And it's a config that elite pilots can take when they not only want to win a duel, but kill their opponent while they're at it.
Tu habites au Québec? Tu veux jouer au BattleTech? Envoie-moi un message!

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28993
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Well, the A may have actually been the one the Wolves designed for fighting other mechs, along with the C.  As said, it was also the configuration the Wolves had that was best suited to killing masses of vehicles and keeping ASF away.  The Bears had the Mad Dog A, the Falcons the Kit Fox Prime, and the Jaguars had the Warhawk A.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

cold1

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4881
  • Goon
Only the Jaguars...
"How shall we fight conventional forces?  Why in a Warhawk of course!"

The Gargoyle A is ok.  It suffers from the original omni "what exactly was the plan here" syndrome a little bit.  I want my 5/8 80 tonner able to do big damage from good range.  This one is the long range hitter for sure.  I would just rather have a NTNU variant that's a little better designed


To the patient go the spoils

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25833
  • It's just my goth phase
(This is not just to you since you know it, but to everyone). The TROs are written from an IS perspective and for at least TRO 3050, the variants were listed in how often they were seen during the invasion and the battle for Tukayyid, not how frequently the Clans used them in the homeworlds or prior to the invasion.

Most likely the reason they weren't reordered later on was to avoid confusion by players.

But the Clans used the same designations when talking amongst themselves.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28993
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Which can still be explained away as preventing confusion among players.

It is bad enough when some spheriod calls the glorious Timberwolf a Mad Cat.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

sillybrit

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3939
It is bad enough when some spheriod calls the glorious Timberwolf a Mad Cat.

Oh, did the Clans rename the MadCat?

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28993
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Um?

I was supporting wantec- the name difference between what the IS called a chassis and what the Clans called it was confusing enough at times.  Now imagine the confusion when a Clanner would refer to the Gargoyle Prime and mean either the A or C by IS standards.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

 

Register