Talk to me about X-Pulse Lasers

[lucho]

Ok, these are still classified as experimental tech- and therefore not tournament legal- but I've been taking a new look at them recently. Yes, they lose out to clantech pulse lasers (surprise, surprise  ::) ), but when compared to other IS tech lasers they are fairly well balanced; the heat is comparable to ER lasers and PPCs in exchange for the range of std lasers (comparing the LXPL to the SnubNose PPC is an interesting faceoff).

I've enjoyed combining the large model with Gauss Rifles and large MML racks; the medium model makes a good secondary weapon for just about anything. And the small model: infantry of the 31st century are no fools, they know that most Anti-Personel weapons only work out to 90m. the SXPL is effective out to 150m  }:)

So... are X-Pulse Lasers worthwhile or worthless? Should they be made tournament legal?

[DarkISI]

So... are X-Pulse Lasers worthwhile or worthless? Should they be made tournament legal?

They have been changed to Advanced level from 3090 onwards (TRO Prototypes). I don't think they receive another upgrade any time soon.

[lucho]

They have been changed to Advanced level from 3090 onwards (TRO Prototypes). I don't think they receive another upgrade any time soon.

Huh, didn't know that. I guess I'm going to have to get my hands on TRO Prototypes then. At least it's a start.

[Blackjack Jones]

As for usage, it sounds like you've got the gist of it.

Large X-Pulse- Some folks are going to say the Snub-Nose PPC (or  even the Plasma Rifle) is a better infighter weapon, and honestly there's some truth there.  But the X-Pulse is a
Godsend for jump-happy 'Mechs like the Wraith. The fact it can be a simple Class A refit for such LPL 'Mechs is also a plus in campaigns.

Medium X-Pulse- No real surprises here. Best for jumpers again, and other units that rely more on their movement mods than their armor to survive.

Small X-Pulse- Other than the Anti-PBI action, it can be used as a downgrade for standard MPL's to get some tonnage and cool down the unit at the price of damage (and a hex of range).

[Moonsword]

Honestly, medium X-pulses aren't a bad upgrade for normal MPLs in a lot of cases.  The small is a valuable improvement over SPLs for pretty much all purposes.  That extra range is handy.

[Diablo48]

I like them, but the extra heat load can be a pain if you are not ready for it.  That said, the LXPL is a wonderful main gun for fast moving/jumpy lights that do not have the space to pack much more on to let them harass the enemy from medium range, the MXPL is a good point defense weapon for heavies and assaults that generally have the heat sinks free from bracketing out their main guns, and the SXPL is fantastic (even if I still prefer the ER Flamer) because you generally do not need to worry about the heat from anti-infantry secondary weapons as much.

[TigerShark]

So... are X-Pulse Lasers worthwhile or worthless? Should they be made tournament legal?

Definitely worthwhile. Anything increasing range and damage for the IS is a plus and the X-Pulse beats out ER lasers and standard Pulse, hands-down. Oddly enough, the only tech I feel truly competes with it are the standard lasers for their BV and heat-efficiency.

As far as "tournament legal?" I couldn't care less about the labels attached to certain tech items. As long as they're fluffed as being manufactured on a large-enough scale and at a certain time period (3085, in this case), I'm comfortable using them.

[Goose]

I loves me some Small X-Pulse, and the rest, too.

Just don't take them into orbit. [AAAH]

[lucho]

the extra heat was what originally turned me off from X-Pulse lasers, but once I learned to combine them with low heat weapons like autocannons and Gauss rifles, they aren't any worse than ERPPCs. And like you all said, they go with jumpjets (and IJJs) like peanut butter & jelly  [rockon]

[Diamondshark]

Honestly, I find the heat/damage ratio of the Large X-Pulse to be unforgivable.  Other than that, I love them.  And I agree, if it's fluffed as being widely produced, I use it prolifically ( love me my shiny toys).

[Demos]

Honestly, I find the heat/damage ratio of the Large X-Pulse to be unforgivable.

Not so bad.
Sure, it's not good as the main armament of a heavy/assault, but as the only main weapon of a light, or suported by another large weapon on a medium the normal 10 DHS can handle the heat management.
And it's a good back-up weapon for assaults.
So, yes, I like them.

[And yes, maybe they will be TL weapons in the 32nd century. They have at least no special rules ??? ]

[Iron Mongoose]

I like them quite nicely.  The Large works pretty well on lighter mechs that can run it off the base heatsinks (or perhaps just one or two extras on mechs with a lot of jets).  Clearly in that role a slam dunk over the old LPL and competitive with the classic and ER PPCs (similar TNs in the XPL's long range vs the ER PPC's medium range, with bonuses as you close and no capability to reach into the ER PPC's long) and also the Snubbie (the TN winner above ten and inside 5 hexes, and on par in the middle, but it loses out on efficancy).

The mediums work well for me in that bracket role like on the Penitrator, since they can come on line a bit earlier.  Just use them behind other big heat hog weapons like H or ER PPCs.

I don't think it really renders any 'regular' stuff obsolite that's not largely obsolite already (I love the IS LPL more than a lot of people, but a lot of people really hate it, and I don't know that they're really that far off the mark).  But a fun way to mix things up and add in some difrent capabilities that you wouldn't otherwise have.

[TigerShark]

It feels like the X-Pulse is what Clan Pulse should have been, in a perfect world.

[lucho]

It feels like the X-Pulse is what Clan Pulse should have been, in a perfect world.

In a perfect world, we wouldn't have any clans...

Oh, yeah, that's right. that's what AUs are for. Anyway, you're right: the X-Pulse would have fit the clans, without the munch we see in canon  :-X

[Hellraiser]

The extra heat makes them not so much fun in large numbers.
But, they each have a niche and in that niche they work in small amounts.

[Diablo48]

It feels like the X-Pulse is what Clan Pulse should have been, in a perfect world.

I am personally more of the opinion that it is what the IS Pulse Lasers should have been because the Clan Pulse Lasers do fit fairly well with the rest of their weapons.

[Dread Moores]

I am personally more of the opinion that it is what the IS Pulse Lasers should have been because the Clan Pulse Lasers do fit fairly well with the rest of their weapons.

That probably doesn't help much then when a given fan may think all the rest of their weapons have problems as well.  ;)

I've only had two chances to use X-pulses to date, but I've found them rather effective. I'm looking forward to seeing more usage of them in my upcoming Dark Age campaign, so I can get a better idea of my thoughts on them.

[TigerShark]

I'm a HUGE fan of Clan warfare, don't get me wrong, but it's an alien system to classical BattleTech. It would be like trying to balance an all-Vees army against all-BattleMechs. Vees don't match up to Mechs BV wise by design and in that same manner, Clan units don't match up to IS units. Either one side is overwhelmed by range and firepower or the other is swarmed to death with endless physicals.

Had the Clan units started with technology comparable to that of the height of the Star League era (which is difficult enough to balance in Royal - House army scenarios), the Clan Invasion would be MUCH easier to play and more practical from an in-game standpoint.

How does this matter with X-Pulse? It doesn't. But the range, damage increase, etc. would have been sufficient enough to justify a "technological" advantage without breaking the system entirely as it is now.

[Diablo48]

The Clans are really not supposed to be balanced one-to-one against the IS, they are supposed to be superior in every way.  You can make balanced games where each side's advantages balance each other out on a given map, but BV has some trouble with this because Clan forces usually need a lot of room to move so the 2X2 maps a lot of people use will allow the IS to corner a faster Clan force by exploiting the artificial map boundaries.

[Hellraiser]

I am personally more of the opinion that it is what the IS Pulse Lasers should have been because the Clan Pulse Lasers do fit fairly well with the rest of their weapons.

Actually given the way MPL v/s ERML are double the range for IS levels I'd say no the clan ones are too long in range.
The Clan Pulse versions are identical (small) to just less than (80%) the range of Clan ER's, that difference IMHO should be bigger to give the Pulse weapons some trade off in Range v/s Accuracy.

Then again I think Clan ER's shouldn't hit as hard as they do (Same as pulse?? More in the case of Smalls) and should be 4/6/9 in damage myself.

Now I also think Clan SPLs are too long ranges but in turn feel they should do 4-5 damage since they got no damage bonus which is what Pulse Weapons were supposed to be good at.

[Demos]

Actually given the way MPL v/s ERML are double the range for IS levels I'd say no the clan ones are too long in range.
The Clan Pulse versions are identical (small) to just less than (80%) the range of Clan ER's, that difference IMHO should be bigger to give the Pulse weapons some trade off in Range v/s Accuracy.

Hm, you could argue that the PL (IS) are 2/3 of the range of the standard laser. As the ER is the *standard for clans, the LPL would be 16,7 hexes, the MPL 10 hexes. Pretty close to the range of the IS standard models. CPL are way too long ranged.

[Diablo48]

Actually given the way MPL v/s ERML are double the range for IS levels I'd say no the clan ones are too long in range.
The Clan Pulse versions are identical (small) to just less than (80%) the range of Clan ER's, that difference IMHO should be bigger to give the Pulse weapons some trade off in Range v/s Accuracy.

Honestly, they work fine when you factor in the extra design weight.  For example, while the MPL generally beats the ERML in action it weighs twice as much which greatly constrains use when you are putting a 'Mech together.  Also, the ERLL does benefit greatly from its extra bit of range which puts it out past just about everything else which can be a great advantage in the right hands.

Then again I think Clan ER's shouldn't hit as hard as they do (Same as pulse?? More in the case of Smalls) and should be 4/6/9 in damage myself.

Clan lasers need their increased damage to keep up with other weapons.  Remember that the ERPPC hits for 15 damage, LRMs weigh very little, and DHS get heavy once you are past your free 10.

Now I also think Clan SPLs are too long ranges but in turn feel they should do 4-5 damage since they got no damage bonus which is what Pulse Weapons were supposed to be good at.

No, the SPL is a long ranged anti-infantry weapon with no ammo.  It is valuable on that alone, and if anything were to be tweaked it would be to increase the range of the ERSL.  Honestly, I could see them both doing 4 damage if the ERSL had 3/6/9 range, but you realy cannot cut back the SPL without running into the micro model.

[Hellraiser]

Clan lasers need their increased damage to keep up with other weapons.  Remember that the ERPPC hits for 15 damage, LRMs weigh very little, and DHS get heavy once you are past your free 10. 

LMAO.
Sorry, your not going to convince me that Clan Energy weapons NEED to be that powerful or they loose out to Ballistic/Missile weapons.
Clan Beamers are the single deadliest weapon in the game, you could drop a hex of range & a point of damage from them all and they would STILL be head and shoulders above any & every other weapon in the game.

but you realy cannot cut back the SPL without running into the micro model.

The Micro model didn't exist when the Clans came out.
What people are saying is that they were not just advanced but straight up overpowered when initially designed.

[lucho]

I'm with Hellraiser: the problem is that clan energy weapons have no drawbacks to them. This is not a good thing, but hey, we wouldn't want the clans to lose their gross advantage, would we? That would be unthinkable  :P

[Headshot]

Sure there is a drawback!
Sooner than later you'll run out of crits for the DHS, i mean, look at the poor Hellstar, that thing is packed!  ::)

[Diablo48]

LMAO.
Sorry, your not going to convince me that Clan Energy weapons NEED to be that powerful or they loose out to Ballistic/Missile weapons.
Clan Beamers are the single deadliest weapon in the game, you could drop a hex of range & a point of damage from them all and they would STILL be head and shoulders above any & every other weapon in the game.

No.  Once you have exceeded the base DHS, the ERPPC (6 tons + 7 DHS=13 tons, 16 crits, 1 heat) balances very well against the Gauss Rifle (12 tons + 2 ammo=14 tons, 8 crits, 1 heat) and LRM 20 with Artimes IV (6 tons + 3 DHS + 3 ammo=12 tons, 12 crits, not a headcapper).  The ERLL then follows from the ERPPC with 2/3 of the weight and damage with a little more heat to balance the extra range and reduced size.  The ERML then follows in the same pattern as the ML does from the LL with drastically improved efficiency at the cost of only reaching out to medium/short range (yes, 15 hexes is medium to short range for the Clans).  The ERSL continues this pattern with even better efficiency at knife fighting range, and the Pulse Lasers also behave like their IS counterparts by bringing the range down to medium for the LPL (every main gun but the AC 20 family outranges it) and short for the MPL.  The SPL also follows like the IS SPL with the same range as the standard model, however it took a damage cut that it probably did not need to get there.

The Micro model didn't exist when the Clans came out.
What people are saying is that they were not just advanced but straight up overpowered when initially designed.

True, and being overpowered was the whole point of Clan gear.  They were supposed to blow the IS out of the water in every way to reflect the fact that they were progressing from the height of the Star League while the IS was busy nuking itself back into the stone age.

[Hellraiser]

True, and being overpowered was the whole point of Clan gear.  They were supposed to blow the IS out of the water in every way to reflect the fact that they were progressing from the height of the Star League while the IS was busy nuking itself back into the stone age.

Except that what they did in the Pentagon was even worse than the 1st & 2nd SW.
And the fact that the IS has been past the SLDF in technology since the 3050's and yet still have not caught up to what the clans did in barely a decade post Klondike.

[Headshot]

Holy Shroud

[Fallen_Raven]

I've never gotten much use out of X-pulse Lasers. Then again I don't get much use out of normal Pulse Lasers either, since I prefer to fight at longer ranges. They do plenty of damage, and the hit bonuses don't hurt, but the heat burden is rather high for a weapon that short ranged. I suppose that once TPTB start putting them on standard designs in ways that make sense (and I get around to using said designs enough to get a feel for them) I might find them useful, but for now I'd rather use a conventional Laser and add some armor to make up for the lost damage.

[Diablo48]

Except that what they did in the Pentagon was even worse than the 1st & 2nd SW.
And the fact that the IS has been past the SLDF in technology since the 3050's and yet still have not caught up to what the clans did in barely a decade post Klondike.

Well, that was the thinking when the Clans were first introduced.