Any reason to use the Sniper over Arrow IV?

[Crow]

Okay, Sniper Artillery has more range and ammo, but less damage. If you could take both to a fight, would you, or just stick with Arrow IV?

[Kovax]

It probably depends on what you have available for spotting and target acquisition.  If you're throwing a volume of fire at an enemy position (especially if your artillery can be pre-registered on target), then the conventional artillery is a relatively cost and BV-efficient means of delivering damage against everything in that general area.  If you're able to use TAG or other means to designate specific targets, then Arrow IV is generally better.  Spamming Arrow IV for area effect without designating targets gets expensive, and tends to run out of ammo in a hurry.

[Weirdo]

Their damage is identical, at 20/10 for standard rounds. Snipers are almost half the BV of Arrows, and get twice as many rounds per ton. This makes them much easier to use as towed field artillery, especially if your preference is for unguided bombardments.

If you want big guided hammers and a lot of ammo flexibility, Arrows are probably your best bet. But if you want the sheer brute force of massed AE, Snipers are the way to go.

[Colt Ward]

What Weirdo said, you might be looking at the old damage values.

To keep it simple, Sniper fulfills the traditional role of artillery better than A4 IMO b/c of the deeper ammo bins.  About the only ammo types Sniper does not have is Inferno & Thunder, both of which are not as likely to be welcome at the table . . . plus with a mech or tank usually only having 2 or 3 tons of A4 ammo (some designs only have 1!) usually your Sniper have more tons which makes taking support options more viable.  I also like to mass the fires (you need more than 1 tube to really be effective, density!) so the lower BV units that I can find with Sniper makes them more attractive.

If I want the most tubes possible for BV, why not Thumpers instead of Sniper?  Damage threshold . . . Sniper landing in a enemy mech's hex forces a PSR with a single hit, Thumper will require shells hitting the same hex since each only does 15 damage.  Since artillery lands after movement but before firing, you can occasionally knock down a enemy mech which cuts into its ability to fire- it gets hit with the prone modifier and has to forgo weapons in a arm.  The mechwarrior taking damage from the fall and passing out is just icing . . .

One of the changes I did not like was the varied flight times between tube & A4, but I was artillery so making a Time on Target fire plan appealed to me perversely but I can see how it discouraged people from using artillery.

[Tangoforone]

In the game, can varied flight times be mitigated by bringing the equipment on-board?  Also, out of curiosity, where are the flight times rules?  My group has issues with the artillery rules every time we play, so I want to put together a binder that is composed of all of the artillery rules and how to use each of them.

I understand by bringing equipment onto the board you run the risk of units entering the minimum ranges for the artillery, but with pre-planning there is usually always something to fire at.  I prefer to bring my artillery on-board, so when I look at which one to bring it depends on the rest of my force composition.  Am I willing to dedicate a portion of my equipment to defending artillery and, if so, how much (usually something should defend the artillery, but how much BV is the investment is my question)?  Or do I want my artillery to be able to defend itself (by use of secondary weapons) with only minimal units spent defending them?  Depends on the game.

Personally, I have had more experience with the Sniper than the AIV, so I am swayed to the Sniper but that doesn't mean I am correct.

[Colt Ward]

Different flight times between tube & A4 went away with TW I think.

When I have artillery its usually in MM double blind play.  This makes using artillery vehicles much easier b/c they can hide behind a small hill or in a depression . . . makes it very hard for it to be found by HK teams.

I have used it on the table top a few times, its usually ignored b/c I do not generally use homing.  Last year my local group's tournament I used 3 Thumper field gun platoons since they were the only ones we had canon sheets for- I would have preferred Snipers but . . Anyway, I mixed in Cluster, Smoke and regular HE . . . took Homing ONCE I think.  Lol, the Smoke really got to the opponent since it blocked his fire support from contributing that turn.

[Insaniac99]

If I want the most tubes possible for BV, why not Thumpers instead of Sniper?  Damage threshold . . . Sniper landing in a enemy mech's hex forces a PSR with a single hit, Thumper will require shells hitting the same hex since each only does 15 damage.  Since artillery lands after movement but before firing, you can occasionally knock down a enemy mech which cuts into its ability to fire- it gets hit with the prone modifier and has to forgo weapons in a arm.  The mechwarrior taking damage from the fall and passing out is just icing . . .

One comment on this.  If you want just mass covering, I find it's usually more because you want to clear infantry, get motive hits on vehicles, scare away ASF (all artillery can be used as AA rounds), or take advantage of special ammo.  To that end, I tend to like a maintenance refit of the Demolisher that you can do in the Succession Wars before the AIV is version is available.

The refit is very simple, two thumper artillery in the turret instead of the AC/20s.  You get 2 tons of ammo.  That's either 20 turns of continuous rain, or 10 turns of standard ammo, and 10 turns of your favorite special for Smoke, Illumination,   Flechette, or any other of your choice.

[Daryk]

I like the cut of your jib...  ^-^

[Red Pins]

. . . took Homing ONCE I think.

Demolisher, 2xThumper, 20 rounds?  I'd have to check the rules, but - Thumper (or Sniper in this case).  The only other reason for me to take an A4 would be the TAG (if I remember past conversations correctly, the Thumper round follows roughly the same rules, but I never played with them myself) or Anti-Aircraft munitions.

[Hellraiser]

To that end, I tend to like a maintenance refit of the Demolisher that you can do in the Succession Wars before the AIV is version is available.

The refit is very simple, two thumper artillery in the turret instead of the AC/20s.  You get 2 tons of ammo.  That's either 20 turns of continuous rain, or 10 turns of standard ammo, and 10 turns of your favorite special for Smoke, Illumination,   Flechette, or any other of your choice.

I had a fellow campaign player that did something similar.
Got 3 tons of ammo by using FFA since it was post 3050 campaign, but otherwise identical.

I did something similar using Partisan tanks myself.  4 tons of ammo for even less armor.

Simple & cheap & makes life hell on enemy fast movers.

[worktroll]

Take it to the extreme - Yellow Jacket with Thumper & two rounds of ammo. Mobile, evasive, vulnerable, fast. Ish.

[Weirdo]

Yellow Jacket ...fast.

[Frabby]

Barring special ammo, airborne units may only use tube artillery when landed iirc.

[Weirdo]

Aero units are under that restriction. VTOLs such as the Karnov Thumper are not.

[worktroll]

Ish. I did say "Ish."

[Weirdo]

I've seen bureaucracies move faster than the Yellow Jacket. And they weren't motivated by AA!

[Luciora]

Aaaand you just gave me another mod inspiration.  Have get a Karnov now and make a TT ready mini.

Aero units are under that restriction. VTOLs such as the Karnov Thumper are not.

[Daryk]

I've seen bureaucracies move faster than the Yellow Jacket. And they weren't motivated by AA!

That's straight funny!  ;D

[Weirdo]

Only because it has no spare MP for facing changes. :)

[Daryk]

Are you saying bureaucracies don't get "minimum movement"?  ???  ;D

[Weirdo]

Are you saying bureaucracies don't get "minimum movement"?  ???  ;D

I'm a government clerk. Trust me, that's accurate. :)

[Daryk]

I also work for the government, and am currently fully engaged in bureaucratic warfare... I'm honestly not sure if minimum movement isn't possible (and am hoping it is)…  ^-^

[StoneRhino]

I hate how we don't have "haha" reacts.    ;D ;D ;D ;D

[grimlock1]

We keep saying that if you have TAG, bring the Arrow IV, but Snipers can fire Copperheads.  Yeah, it only hits half as hard, but the radius is the same and it's guided.

[Daryk]

And Snipers have twice the ammo per ton...

[Colt Ward]

I thought Sniper Copperheads still used the old 15/5?

[VhenRa]

Sniper Copperheads are 10 damage with no radius...

[Daryk]

Still AOE though, right?

[Weirdo]

None of them(Copperheads or guided Arrows) are AE for their full damage. All of them are AE within the impact hex only, for five.

[Daryk]

Then I'd still lean toward the Sniper, as the ammo has more per ton, and is cheaper...