Author Topic: Repost: Light Gauss - Understanding and Using It  (Read 14148 times)

mbear

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Re: Repost: Light Gauss - Understanding and Using It
« Reply #30 on: 05 October 2020, 09:21:18 »
The new Nightstar variant from the ilClan Rec guides is the ultimate LGR mech though it uses clan tech to achieve it. Two LGRs backed up by two cERLLS and a cER PPC. The LGRs and cERLLs ranges match up perfectly. It's designed to pick on IS mechs with ER PPCs, Gauss Rifles, and LRMs where it can get in it's medium range brackets while mechs equipped with those IS weapons are still firing in long range brackets. Then swap out an ERLL for the ER PPC for some head capping and armor removing insanity...

The Lich drone from XTRO: Republic 3 is another great example. Two LGRs with two Clan ER Large Lasers for lots of long range fun.
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nerd

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Re: Repost: Light Gauss - Understanding and Using It
« Reply #31 on: 05 October 2020, 11:19:10 »
Looking at the specs, the Light Gauss would be an effective replacement for the AC/10 in many cases. There's an additional 28 damage per ton of ammo over the AC/10, and the extended range bands would help. However, the minimum range would be an issue. For the Enforcer and Orion, the LGR would be a quality upgrade as it improves reach, Centurion and Hatchetman, not as much as in those mechs, I see the AC/10 in a shorter-ranged role.

The important thing is to find the role for all the equipment.
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Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: Repost: Light Gauss - Understanding and Using It
« Reply #32 on: 05 October 2020, 14:55:31 »
Looking at the specs, the Light Gauss would be an effective replacement for the AC/10 in many cases. There's an additional 28 damage per ton of ammo over the AC/10, and the extended range bands would help. However, the minimum range would be an issue. For the Enforcer and Orion, the LGR would be a quality upgrade as it improves reach, Centurion and Hatchetman, not as much as in those mechs, I see the AC/10 in a shorter-ranged role.

The important thing is to find the role for all the equipment.


Depends on what you are looking for.  In the mass band we have the AC/10, Inner Sphere LB-10X, and LGR.

A straight up AC/10 for LGR swap gives 60% more ammo if the bins are swapped one for one, and a medium range that goes out to beyond the AC/10's long range, and a short range that goes out nearly to the AC/10's medium.  Until you get to 5 hexes or less, it is effectively a pulse AC/10.  Sure you loose something in the damage per hit, but the ammo capacity per ton is high enough to work out to slightly more damage potential.

Compared to a LB-10X?  With two tons of ammo the LB-10X has slightly more shots, and more total damage potential even if carrying a mix of slugs and cluster.  OTOH even with the cluster round, the LGR is still has a couple range bands where it is superior in accuracy.

I'd say it comes down to role.  A LGR is better for something that wants to hang at range, say a Hawk Moth, or refitting a LGR in place of the AC/10 of the BSW-1X Bushwacker.  It would probably work decently with the Centurion, though I'd probably want to remove the rear medium laser for extra LGR ammo there.  Two long range weapons with deep bins, it can play the battle cruiser game, beating up more vulnerable targets at the edge of their weapon range, while more comfortably in its own.  And able to run from something big enough to get through its lighter armor.

LB-10X is more for the inclose fighter and slugger, roles like the Verfolger, often paired with a ER PPC for either two ten point slugs, or a PPC hit with a Cluster chaser.

Minemech

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Re: Repost: Light Gauss - Understanding and Using It
« Reply #33 on: 06 October 2020, 20:27:34 »
 I am an odd SHD-7M fan.

Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: Repost: Light Gauss - Understanding and Using It
« Reply #34 on: 08 October 2020, 09:43:52 »
I am an odd SHD-7M fan.

Not really feeling it on my end.

Okay, the one ton LGR ammo isn't bad.

The CASE on the same torso as the LGR, while leaving the other torso, with the LRM ammo, and the center torso SSRM-2 ammo uncovered.  Plus the LRM-15 only has 8 rounds, making it hard to work the range game the LGR encourages.

MarauderD

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Re: Repost: Light Gauss - Understanding and Using It
« Reply #35 on: 08 October 2020, 11:02:35 »
That's a common 'big sin' of the Marik Shadow Hawks from TRO 3050 onward:  Big LRM weapon, not enough ammo.  IIRC, the 5M spends 10 tons on a LRM 20 then gives it 6 reloads. 

16 rounds for a Light Gauss is ok, but 32 would be better.  6 or 8 rounds for an LRM launcher is a sin.  (IMO)

Minemech

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Re: Repost: Light Gauss - Understanding and Using It
« Reply #36 on: 08 October 2020, 11:53:27 »
 I think that is part of the Shadow Hawk persona. The mech design is supposed to be one of a mech that does a lot right, but is ultimately cut down by a mediocre decision somewhere. For me, it gives me an excuse to use the design more aggressively than such a mech might be typically used, since I want those shots to count. My Yeoman may be be shooting from a safe distance, while my Hawk is in its short range bands.

Alan Grant

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Re: Repost: Light Gauss - Understanding and Using It
« Reply #37 on: 09 October 2020, 06:16:07 »
I knew someone once who was fond of the SHD-7M who used similar tactics. He treated the -7M like a brawler and tried to get in the LGR's short range bracket, preferably acting as a flanker or trying to shoot a distracted target in the back. He said the idea was inspired by watching WW2 movies/shows and seeing troops run around with Bazookas trying to shoot tanks in weak spots.

He did pretty much the opposite of what you'd assume, he'd take the -7M into restrictive terrain and try to short range LGR around corners, and jump around. Rather than stand on some hill and try to snipe.

He was almost happy the LRM ammo was limited. Because his plan was always to fire those reloads off as quickly as possible because he wasn't sure how much longer after that the Shadow Hawk would live and he didn't feel as comfortable switching to brawler tactics until the LRMs were depleted so the ammo wasn't another thing in the 'mech that could blow up. It worked out well because until those LRMs were gone he'd keep the Shadow Hawk back, he'd watch the battle evolve and wait until everyone was busy before pushing his Shadow Hawk past the enemy front line.

It was never a battle winning strategy by any means and it didn't always work. But when paired with 'mechs that were a lot bigger or scarier, he got away with a lot because no one expected it and they'd rather turn their back on the Shadow Hawk than on the Awesome or the Hunchback.

The funniest part was, even when it worked well (he used it to kill a Morningstar Tank once and take down the C3), everyone said it was a dumb ridiculous thing to do because the LGR was a sniper weapon. But he just ignored them and kept doing it. He only dropped the tactic once it got too predictable.
« Last Edit: 09 October 2020, 06:24:52 by Alan Grant »

Minemech

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Re: Repost: Light Gauss - Understanding and Using It
« Reply #38 on: 09 October 2020, 10:11:12 »
 It is not a strategy, and building a force around it is a bad idea. It can very quickly end up a gimmick. It is a tactic that can throw a player off balance, but it will not win the game.
« Last Edit: 09 October 2020, 10:15:06 by Minemech »

Alan Grant

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Re: Repost: Light Gauss - Understanding and Using It
« Reply #39 on: 09 October 2020, 10:33:16 »
It is not a strategy, and building a force around it is a bad idea. It can very quickly end up a gimmick. It is a tactic that can throw a player off balance, but it will not win the game.

Agreed. It's just fun to contemplate unconventional ways to make use of the tools in the arsenal. After reading articles like the OP which spell out conventional, optimal usage, min/max design choice etc.
« Last Edit: 09 October 2020, 10:38:58 by Alan Grant »

Hellraiser

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Re: Repost: Light Gauss - Understanding and Using It
« Reply #40 on: 09 October 2020, 10:56:48 »
6 or 8 rounds for an LRM launcher is a sin.  (IMO)
That really depends on the mech.
The Catapult & Crusader both disagree with you.


The Shd-5M biggest issue was a combo of 3 non-optimal weapons choices.
1.  Single Streak w/ full ammo ton?
2.  Shorting Ammo on an LRM20?
3.  Ultra-5?

A few small changes to any of those 3 makes for a really nice platform.

For example.

ERPPC + 2 more Streaks.   That works.
ERPPC for Artemis & More Ammo.   Even better.
2nd ML & move Streak Ammo to LRMs.  Also a plan & adds a bit of armor.
Smaller LRM Rack for more Streaks.  I can see that too.
ERLL for Artemis/Ammo/2nd ML/More Streaks/Electronics?  Any & All work.

Its not just 1 thing w/ the Shd-5M, its the combo of 3 choices that all are imperfect.
Otherwise, its a solid option, even if NONE of the 3050 55 ton trio managed to keep a SFE in any variant.  (Not One!)
« Last Edit: 09 October 2020, 11:03:20 by Hellraiser »
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MarauderD

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Re: Repost: Light Gauss - Understanding and Using It
« Reply #41 on: 09 October 2020, 12:21:54 »
That really depends on the mech.
The Catapult & Crusader both disagree with you.


The Shd-5M biggest issue was a combo of 3 non-optimal weapons choices.
1.  Single Streak w/ full ammo ton?
2.  Shorting Ammo on an LRM20?
3.  Ultra-5?

A few small changes to any of those 3 makes for a really nice platform.

For example.

ERPPC + 2 more Streaks.   That works.
ERPPC for Artemis & More Ammo.   Even better.
2nd ML & move Streak Ammo to LRMs.  Also a plan & adds a bit of armor.
Smaller LRM Rack for more Streaks.  I can see that too.
ERLL for Artemis/Ammo/2nd ML/More Streaks/Electronics?  Any & All work.

Its not just 1 thing w/ the Shd-5M, its the combo of 3 choices that all are imperfect.
Otherwise, its a solid option, even if NONE of the 3050 55 ton trio managed to keep a SFE in any variant.  (Not One!)

Agreed.  Single ton Ammo for both the LRM and the Ultra is too much, IMO.  A rookie pilot could go out of ammo on round 11 for his two 'best' weapons.

Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: Repost: Light Gauss - Understanding and Using It
« Reply #42 on: 09 October 2020, 13:15:16 »
Agreed.  Single ton Ammo for both the LRM and the Ultra is too much, IMO.  A rookie pilot could go out of ammo on round 11 for his two 'best' weapons.

And on the flip side, the SSRM-2 ammo is both enough to get through a short campaign without reloading that, and placed in the center torso, invalidating putting CASE on the mech at all.

Alan Grant

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Re: Repost: Light Gauss - Understanding and Using It
« Reply #43 on: 12 October 2020, 18:50:00 »
What do you all think of the Merkava Mk. IX, which mounts a LGR.

Minemech

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Re: Repost: Light Gauss - Understanding and Using It
« Reply #44 on: 13 October 2020, 07:35:48 »
What do you all think of the Merkava Mk. IX, which mounts a LGR.
The Merkava made many Free Worlds players happy, because it was a good platform.

Sabelkatten

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Re: Repost: Light Gauss - Understanding and Using It
« Reply #45 on: 13 October 2020, 09:09:39 »
The problem with the mk.IX isn't the LGR itself, but rather the lack of energy weapons - it could swap the LGR for an ERPPC and save 2.5 tons, a weapon that would be more useful much of the time.

If some of the missiles were swapped for energy weapons the LGR would look much better.

GreekFire

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Re: Repost: Light Gauss - Understanding and Using It
« Reply #46 on: 13 October 2020, 18:36:07 »
Its biggest sin, IMO, is that it's not a Moltke M1.
But the Merkava is certainly a fun, flavorful unit to have.
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Greatclub

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Re: Repost: Light Gauss - Understanding and Using It
« Reply #47 on: 14 October 2020, 02:48:52 »
The Centurion D3D looks like an excellent light gauss platform; fast with lots of gauss ammo. Then the D4D has to throw most of what made it work for me away.