BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Universe => The Periphery => Topic started by: ArkRoyalRavager on 04 November 2021, 04:45:43
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The continuation of the Imperial thread. Happy posting!
Perhaps this can be considered the Imperial-exclusive version of the Chatterweb.
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All hail the Zarkhan! Now she can lead us with the assistance of Star Dreadnok!
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What is the Star Dreadnok? Where can I get one! :drool:
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Scorpions!
Sound off. We have a new home.
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So, anyone knows whats the current color scheme for seekers now? I got my Clan Invasion box and the CGS are the clan i can stand the most. Its a shame Gamma died during the WoR, love the scheme.
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All hail the Zarkhan! Now she can lead us with the assistance of Star Dreadnok!
Now I want some Scorpion Seekers stumble upon an abandoned Dreadnought Warship, refurbish it and then appear above Terra reenacting James McKenna's "Surrender or we will turn you into your miserable atoms" speech
Not realisitc since all Dreadnoughts are long gone but it would be funny
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If the Scorpions could manage to find a mothballed Texas-class, it would be even funnier. The Revenge of Texas!
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So, anyone knows whats the current color scheme for seekers now? I got my Clan Invasion box and the CGS are the clan i can stand the most. Its a shame Gamma died during the WoR, love the scheme.
Same as Chi Galaxy until/unless stated otherwise.
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Same as Chi Galaxy until/unless stated otherwise.
uses a practical scheme of browns with golden yellow accents. They do not yet display insignia. Warriors are permitted to decorate their preferred dueling weapon with a bright green 'poison' desig
So basically diferent shades of browns camo with golden yellow accents?
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Don't mind me, just squeezing by...
Watch Commander Pi
Clan Stone Lion
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I'm not thrilled with any of the current Scorpion paint schemes, which is a problem because I want to continue painting up mechs for them. I liked Delta's scheme, but they didn't survive the Reavings. I consider Alpha to be acceptable.
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Carrying over my thought from the last thread:
I do see what you mean, ARR, about the possibility that CGS's potential view of itself as a star-league-in-exile isn't meant to be a legal claim but rather than an aspirational idea. That said, I do think they probably will need to be politically savvy about it or else Alaric and his flunkies might get mad about it.
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I'm not thrilled with any of the current Scorpion paint schemes, which is a problem because I want to continue painting up mechs for them. I liked Delta's scheme, but they didn't survive the Reavings. I consider Alpha to be acceptable.
I'm wondering if they have new uniforms? I can't remember if that was in the scorpian empire PDF, I'll have to go look. Hopefully they keep the knives and get something new. Do any of the clans wear kilts? kilts might be fun. :D
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I'm wondering if they have new uniforms? I can't remember if that was in the scorpian empire PDF, I'll have to go look. Hopefully they keep the knives and get something new. Do any of the clans wear kilts? kilts might be fun. :D
I’m sure the Falcons will be rocking them soon. Kilts don’t really go with any of the GS founding ‘stereotypes’ either.
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I'm not thrilled with any of the current Scorpion paint schemes, which is a problem because I want to continue painting up mechs for them. I liked Delta's scheme, but they didn't survive the Reavings. I consider Alpha to be acceptable.
Considering they have freeborns and trueborns from former members of Ice Hellion and Eridani Light Horse that still celebrate their origins there could be groups honouring their fallen comrades. Use Delta if you like it I won’t oppose it.
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Carrying over my thought from the last thread:
I do see what you mean, ARR, about the possibility that CGS's potential view of itself as a star-league-in-exile isn't meant to be a legal claim but rather than an aspirational idea. That said, I do think they probably will need to be politically savvy about it or else Alaric and his flunkies might get mad about it.
Yup, an idea to aspire to.
I doubt Alaric and his associates will mind. In fact, with the weakened Wolves, Alaric needs all the potential troops he can get, so the Empire will be negotiating from a position of strength.
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I’m sure the Falcons will be rocking them soon. Kilts don’t really go with any of the GS founding ‘stereotypes’ either.
Nice yellow & green kilts :)
I'm sure that none of the Falcon bloodnamed would be able to claim a tartan from a Scottish bloodline.
Maybe Bailey (if they fix the spelling)
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I wonder what color tartans the Chi Li Bloodhouse will wear?
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Plenty of Warhawks in the Catalyst store. For now...
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They gone
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I missed out on obtaining more Warhawks, sadly. Managed to nab some other 'Mechs that should hopefully fit with my Scorpions at least.
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There’s always Mu Galaxy’s love of camouflage patterns too. And, admittedly, Ice Hellion had fun paint schemes.
To quote old Madonna: “Beauty’s where you find it.” 8)
Edit: ...and the Umayyads, for fun Omega and PGC stylings.
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For me it's always been cameo, where appropriate and olive gray, as that has been the SLDF standard colour for the last 400+ years ago. Different shades of muted cameo added to the base olive gray has been my norm for awhile now.
TT
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And you can always adapt Hanseatic Leauge camo patterns for form RDF bondsmen.
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I'm not thrilled with any of the current Scorpion paint schemes, which is a problem because I want to continue painting up mechs for them. I liked Delta's scheme, but they didn't survive the Reavings. I consider Alpha to be acceptable.
Feel the exact same for all points, but replace Delta with Gamma. I will say though, the Goliath Scorpions that appeared in Forever Faithful seemed to be doing their own thing rather than sticking to the Galaxy scheme, and a few descriptions almost sound like they were using Delta's scheme. Gives me hope a subunit or two might be borrowing Gamma's scheme in place of their official one.
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Feel the exact same for all points, but replace Delta with Gamma. I will say though, the Goliath Scorpions that appeared in Forever Faithful seemed to be doing their own thing rather than sticking to the Galaxy scheme, and a few descriptions almost sound like they were using Delta's scheme. Gives me hope a subunit or two might be borrowing Gamma's scheme in place of their official one.
. . . the Galaxy Commander used a quad standard battlemech that had not even been invented yet so . . .
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. . . the Galaxy Commander used a quad standard battlemech that had not even been invented yet so . . .
Huh? Rik Myers was definitely in a standard Fire Scorpion at Wayside V at the end of the book, and that has an intro date of 2852...
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You are right about his ride- still a Alpha Galaxy Commander not having a Omni . . . or the whole premier cluster of a Alpha Galaxy not being fitted out with Omnis- like FMWC says- is bonkers. But it is a Arana in Myers keshik or working with it- built in 3087 when the Scorpions moved to the NC region- that I was thining of is in Chapter 35. A Kodiak for the Scorps?
All in '62 though they would have had to leave Huntress in late '60 to '61 to follow Paul Moon & Co . . . Forever Faithful has continuity problems like a lot of the author's recent work.
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You are right about his ride- still a Alpha Galaxy Commander not having a Omni . . . or the whole premier cluster of a Alpha Galaxy not being fitted out with Omnis- like FMWC says- is bonkers. But it is a Arana in Myers keshik or working with it- built in 3087 when the Scorpions moved to the NC region- that I was thining of is in Chapter 35. A Kodiak for the Scorps?
All in '62 though they would have had to leave Huntress in late '60 to '61 to follow Paul Moon & Co . . . Forever Faithful has continuity problems like a lot of the author's recent work.
the presence of the Arana is either a error or it's a Battlemech grade prototype of what would eventually become the Tolva and the Emp scorp Arana was a watered down industrial mech grade stop-gag version until they could remake it to the proper battlemech specs
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the presence of the Arana is either a error or it's a Battlemech grade prototype of what would eventually become the Tolva and the Emp scorp Arana was a watered down industrial mech grade stop-gag version until they could remake it to the proper battlemech specs
Nothing of which was ever put out about the design. Look at the FMWC/FMU for that formation- should be Omnis. Further, the Jaguar cast-offs left on Wayside to die of old age? Too many bloodnames and too many Omnis to be the desperate Jaguars.
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You are right about his ride- still a Alpha Galaxy Commander not having a Omni . . . or the whole premier cluster of a Alpha Galaxy not being fitted out with Omnis- like FMWC says- is bonkers. But it is a Arana in Myers keshik or working with it- built in 3087 when the Scorpions moved to the NC region- that I was thining of is in Chapter 35. A Kodiak for the Scorps?
It's the Scorpions. They do...*nuanced*, better than most. It's not a flaw, it's a feature.
Look at the FMWC/FMU for that formation- should be Omnis. Further, the Jaguar cast-offs left on Wayside to die of old age? Too many bloodnames and too many Omnis to be the desperate Jaguars.
The tables have long been a guide, and not something meant to be taken as carved in stone. The BattleMechs appearing among the 35th Cuirassiers, or the Onagers, Shadow Cat IIs, or even Malvina's Shrike among the 100% Omni Raptor Keshik are proof enough of this.
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So, how about those Star Pythons and Star Crusaders... :D 8)
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Brought to you by the funslayer. :)
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Good to see Hellions are still causing trouble, getting in tantrums and going feral.
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So, how about those Star Pythons and Star Crusaders... :D 8)
very niiiice!
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Brought to you by the funslayer. :)
:beer:
I'll take two.
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So far, local consensus seems to be on the Star Crusader A (And a pack of Star Pythons)
What do other people think?
Also pairing them with a Night Gyr T
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So far, local consensus seems to be on the Star Crusader A (And a pack of Star Pythons)
What do other people think?
Also pairing them with a Night Gyr T
My favorite of those designs when Comstar first put them out was the Raijin, so I wish the Scorpions had gotten that one too.
Ruger
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Maybe they will one day. Could be they have the schematics but haven't done anything with them yet.
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This is just step one of Doc Swift's plans to revive the Celestial series, in the Empire.
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Oh, I have grander plans than that!
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I'm a bit surprised no one has mentioned the new Galaxy...
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Eta? Mix of free and trueborns?
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Okay, I can admit when I'm wrong. Intro, Blakist, Mixed, and even EC-tech mechs and tanks. Armed Indys (which I'd previously thought declared extinct in the Empire for some reason) and small combat support vees. Conventional fighters and small craft gunships. No less than four classes of purely IS-tech battlesuits, not to mention what may be the last faction listing for Corona suits.
I need to apologize. Doc Swift, I accused you of rendering the current incarnation of the Goliath Scorpions utterly boring and efficient, and while the loss of Protos still rankles, I was completely wrong on both counts. I am truly sorry.
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Sounds like Weirdo just became a die hard Scorpion fanboy!
TT
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Eta? Mix of free and trueborns?
Hopefully a sign of continued progress.
It would be delicious for Imperial Celestials to appear
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I'm a bit surprised no one has mentioned the new Galaxy...
Didn't we already reveal Eta in Moving Forward? Maybe they will one day. Could be they have the schematics but haven't done anything with them yet.
Even if they have the schematics, remember the files used to create the Star Python were damaged and had to be sent to a civilian contractor to be restored.
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You're correct. I never know if everyone reads the fiction, but I expect that most people do read TROs and the like. :)
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So, ¿the Star Phyton is getting another line in Gateway besides the line(s) in Imperial BattleMechs of Braunschweig?
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So, ¿the Star Phyton is getting another line in Gateway besides the line(s) in Imperial BattleMechs of Braunschweig?
Gateway was the first full production line. Everything before that were prototypes. No idea if they start another line on another planet.
Remember, the RecGuide is set before Moving Forward. The Mech is still in limited/prototype production state at that point. The Foxes simply didn't know about the factory being set up on Gateway.
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Gateway was the first full production line. Everything before that were prototypes. No idea if they start another line on another planet.
Maybe i got it wrong. The RecGuide #23 list the production site of the mech at Imperial BattleMechs of Braunschweig. But the "MOVING FORWARD" story at Sharpnel #6 states that a line is beign built in Gateway.
So, Gateway´s line was the first, and later they added another production site at Braunschweig´s Imperial BattleMechs?
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Maybe i got it wrong. The RecGuide #23 list the production site of the mech at Imperial BattleMechs of Braunschweig. But the "MOVING FORWARD" story at Sharpnel #6 states that a line is beign built in Gateway.
So, Gateway´s line was the first, and later they added another production site at Braunschweig´s Imperial BattleMechs?
My edit came to late ;)
The RecGuide is set earlier. The Mech is still in prototype/limited production state at that point. Gateway was the first full production line.
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My edit came to late ;)
The RecGuide is set earlier. The Mech is still in prototype/limited production state at that point. Gateway was the first full production line.
Got it. So while there is some production at Braunschweig, the first "proper" factory line is at Gateway. Also, if i understanded correctly (english is not my main language) the Scorpions have a "Hephaestus Station". ¿Is something similar to the orbital assembly line the Wolf´s Dragoons used to have?
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No, the Hephaestus line was cut from Moving Forward via errata. Plans changed between writing and release of the story and it was forgotten to cut it before release.
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No, the Hephaestus line was cut from Moving Forward via errata. Plans changed between writing and release of the story and it was forgotten to cut it before release.
Was not aware of the erratas. So, based on that, we can assume that the first test moderl were produced at Braunschweig, but the first production models at Gateway?
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Was not aware of the erratas. So, based on that, we can assume that the first test moderl were produced at Braunschweig, but the first production models at Gateway?
That seems correct, yes. We don't know if the prototype line was later refurbished for full production or used for something else, though.
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That seems correct, yes. We don't know if the prototype line was later refurbished for full production or used for something else, though.
While the RecGuides are usually made as in-universe documents, with all the miss-information and errors that it can entail, the information on the TROs (and RecGuides) tend to be correct.
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Also we have Scorpion activity in the "former" [Huh... wonder what happened there] Coreward Confederacy world of Norfolk.
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While the RecGuides are usually made as in-universe documents, with all the miss-information and errors that it can entail, the information on the TROs (and RecGuides) tend to be correct.
Yeah. I think Moving Forward made it clear that the Star Python entering regular production on Gateway was a political move. The Khan was running a long game with Emmy Line. Look deep enough and you might find him machinating a lot of things in the background to get her where she ended up. Her own decisions might not really have been her own over large parts of her career once she caught his eye.
That's all speculation, though. So far we have not seen any of that and just because I imagine it happening doesn't mean it really did. Gateway being a political move is quite clear, based on the sources we have.
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Really impressed with the Scorpions getting the former C* and WoB Mechs, hopefully they'll get some of the other designs like the Initiate, Lightray, Grim Reaper and Toyama.
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Having it Clan tech may help it survive better than Nexus/Nexus II/Jackrabbit would have with Inner Sphere/Star League Tech
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Given they are used in packs, there should be quite a few of them.
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I would love to see the Lightray make a come back in the Empire. I LOVE the mini, think it captures the design's speedy nature perfectly. I want it to be mixed tech, Clan XL, IS body, Supercharger for more speed, maybe some Clan electronics and a Snub PPC on the arm w/AES.
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I would love to see the Lightray make a come back in the Empire. I LOVE the mini, think it captures the design's speedy nature perfectly. I want it to be mixed tech, Clan XL, IS body, Supercharger for more speed, maybe some Clan electronics and a Snub PPC on the arm w/AES.
I like where your head is at
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If they take on a WoB 55-tonner, I think I'd rather give them an Omni-Buccaneer.
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A piddly 6/9? Eh, it also has that sort of un-Clanlike hatchet.
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Fits pretty well with the folks who made the Rhino, and who got the factory that makes the Surtur.
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Fits pretty well with the folks who made the Rhino, and who got the factory that makes the Surtur.
what exactly is the rhino? I've seen referances to a mech called that but can't find it
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Fits pretty well with the folks who made the Rhino, and who got the factory that makes the Surtur.
Lol, 3150 why I said 'sort-of' but did forget they got the Surtur. I did view the Rhino's ramming attack as more elegant/skill based than swinging a hatchet, punching, or kicking.
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what exactly is the rhino? I've seen referances to a mech called that but can't find it
It's in OTP: Hanseatic Crusade.
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what exactly is the rhino? I've seen referances to a mech called that but can't find it
It's a very, very, very scary 50 ton Quad mech that first saw print in the old FASA magazine. Doc Swift and the rest of the mad geniuses at CGL took the idea and turned the Rhino into a brutally efficient Clan quad built for charging with a ram plate, spikes, several ER medium lasers, and a supercharger so you can go really fast like Sonic the Hedgehog, and turn your enemies into crash test dummies. It's what happens when the Clans watch too many Mad Max movies. And I love it, because CGL is pulling in old stuff from every ancient nook and cranny of Battletech and placing it in a updated format. Heck, we might even end up with the Screaming Hawk, the Achilles, or even the Ventilator at some point.
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And you get to see it in action in Moving Forward ;)
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Ewww, I stepped in pirate mech.
Can sum that up.
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That... sounds about right :D
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Can someone remind me again which clans the Scorpions absorbed members from around the time they were Abjured and during the Wars of Reaving. I want to say Hellions and Mandrills but I am not sure.
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Hellions
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Can someone remind me again which clans the Scorpions absorbed members from around the time they were Abjured and during the Wars of Reaving. I want to say Hellions and Mandrills but I am not sure.
Some of the Mandrills lower caste were taken and unlike the Eridani and Hellions their military presence is nonexistent.
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those early clan things that were reintroduced in 3080s likely fell back into extinction due to being outclassed by their "modern" clan standard versions once the scorps regained the ability to mass produce proper clan tech standard stuff in the 3100s.
like why used a improved ppc(standard is PPC with 6 tons weight and 2 crit slots) when you got access to the clan er ppc again..
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Makes sense, the improved weapons were basically a stopgap until the full spec items could once again be produced.
Hopefully we will see a Lightray C and Toyama C at some point as will, although the Toyama at least will need a new name.
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The name only matters if the Scorpions care.
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Maybe but they did change the names of the Nexus and Grand Crusader so I guess they care on some level.
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I think it's not that they care about Blakist names, and more that they care about rebranding to make it theirs.
Thinking about it, I guess it makes no difference, since the end result will likely be the same.
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Man . . . 2 Clan ERLL, IS or Clan LB-10X (not much difference), and LRMs or better ATMs for . . . Moreau? What Founder would you want to rename it to? Maybe name it after the Imperio's founding Khan? Lightray becomes the Conner?
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If it's meant for second-line use, name it after some famous figure from Castilian or Umayyad history. Or given the Scorpions' proclivities, some famous SLDF general.
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If it's meant for second-line use, name it after some famous figure from Castilian or Umayyad history. Or given the Scorpions' proclivities, some famous SLDF general.
Moreau was my first inclination- a abathka Star League officer who was their first Loremaster.
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Moreau was my first inclination- a abathka Star League officer who was their first Loremaster.
It would certainly make sense.
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I could see that regarding Moreau, but especially for a fairly optimal frontline machine or Omni.
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Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik is finally coming out this week. I think I put some good stuff in there. Hope y'all like it!
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Toyama already has a non-WOB name, Odysseus
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Toyama already has a non-WOB name, Odysseus
That would work, I guess if anyone is going to know that its the Scorpions.
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I've posted a couple previews for SO: Hellion Keshik on twitter and at my FB author page (link in sig), if anyone's interested. More will follow over the next couple days. :)
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I've posted a couple previews for SO: Hellion Keshik on twitter and at my FB author page (link in sig), if anyone's interested. More will follow over the next couple days. :)
Looking forward to it! I'm excited to see Protomechs in the organization table, even if it is from an older era.
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I just posted another teaser for those interested! 8)
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Another preview is up! This one shows part of the organization from one era, highlighting an interesting mix of battlesuit Points... 8)
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Sure, make it even easier for my to run the Empire with my existing collection why don't you.
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Hey uh, do you mind? I'm really trying not to get any more invested in the Scorpions right now, so if you could stop making them so damn interesting, that'd be great for me. Help a guy out, would you?
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Ya'll got any of them Star Crusaders? I'd really like one.
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Curious whether the Scorpions and Foxes get into it from time to time? Might wanna check out my latest preview for SO: Hellion Keshik! :)
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Oh..
I wonder if it'll be a Fox two-step?
:thumbsup:
TT
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Curious whether the Scorpions and Foxes get into it from time to time? Might wanna check out my latest preview for SO: Hellion Keshik! :)
I'm already buying it tomorrow! No need to sell me.
But yeah, a lot of people want to see more than trials. They want to see all out war.
Not me, though! Lol, these are two of my favorite factions and it would hurt a lot if they ripped each other's hearts out.
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Well, a Spotlight On isn't the place to start a full-on war!
Edit: And the last preview is posted. This one shows some of the detailed personalities. Well, it shows their names. I think they're a good tease, showing how the Empire's reforms have continued since the Crusade. :)
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Good to see the progressive Hansa being allowed into a Keshik.
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Good to see the progressive Hansa being allowed into a Keshik.
You have a freeborn Hansa as zarKhan. There was never any question about what they can achieve in the Empire :)
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Ah, publishing! When something written later steals the thunder of something written first!
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You have a freeborn Hansa as zarKhan. There was never any question about what they can achieve in the Empire :)
What's the root behind the word zarKhan? Assuming it's not a Power Rangers reference, best I'm getting is Czar Khan.
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Yep. ArKhan wouldn't work because of the Lyran Commonwealth's ruling title, so I went with zar instead.
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Oh my, there was a lot packed into the Spotlight.
Hellion Keshik is a quite the formation.
Favourite parts might be the advancement at the end regarding Clan Sea Fox and the expansion of Hansa traders into the Chainelaines
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Just bought the Spotlight On, and was hoping someone here might have the answer to a question I have:
Do we have an official color scheme for members of Hellion Galaxy who are not Hellion Keshik?
Hellion Keshik is ice blue w/ a navy pinstripe, but Keshiks often have their own unique scheme. Hellion galaxy was originally Beta Galaxy, which was black accents on a sand-color base.
I can't find any official note as to whether Hellion Galaxy as a whole kept the Beta galaxy scheme, or whether the Hellion Keshik scheme is intended for all members of Hellion galaxy, or if its something else entirely.
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Here's hoping they retain the tan and black.
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That's what I'm hoping too - the Black-on-Sand color is both my favorite of the Scorpions schemes, and the most iconically "Scorpion" in my personal opinion.
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Unless and until expressly changed, the old paint scheme stands for all CGS units.
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Oh my, there was a lot packed into the Spotlight.
Hellion Keshik is a quite the formation.
Favourite parts might be the advancement at the end regarding Clan Sea Fox and the expansion of Hansa traders into the Chainelaines
8)
And those are Imperial merchants.
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Imperial Hansa - which is all sorts of awesome going forward.
I appreciate the lines it opens, and gives all sorts of excuses for further shenanigans.
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someone's gotta compete with the Foxes, right?
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someone's gotta compete with the Foxes, right?
looks like we're seeing a number of potential Fox compeition coming down the road between and Empire and the ALM... exciting times.
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It's interesting to see that the Scorpions are establishing a relay HPG network between the Empire and their new holding in the Chaine Cluster.
Actually, if the Scorpions wanted to go one step farther, perhaps they could consider going after the Rim Territories? The locals would no doubt welcome someone getting rid of their dezgra pirate overlords.
Plus, with all of the goings-on over in Tamar Rising, even a relatively modest Scorpion presence so close to the Hinterlands would be enough to make things quite interesting. So long as that still (hopefully) leaves enough of the Touman to safeguard the Empire proper, on the off chance that one or more of the Homeworld Clans ever actually get around to showing up in force...
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someone's gotta compete with the Foxes, right?
"Begun, the Chaine Wars have"
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if the Scorpions wanted to go one step farther, perhaps they could consider going after the Rim Territories? The locals would no doubt welcome someone getting rid of their dezgra pirate overlords.
Plus, with all of the goings-on over in Tamar Rising, even a relatively modest Scorpion presence so close to the Hinterlands would be enough to make things quite interesting. So long as that still (hopefully) leaves enough of the Touman to safeguard the Empire proper, on the off chance that one or more of the Homeworld Clans ever actually get around to showing up in force...
One thing I endeavored to show in OTP: Hanseatic Crusade is that the Scorpions have learned from the mistakes that the Invading Clans made. Instead of conquering vast swaths of territory far from home, and splitting their forces and focus, their conquest of the Hanseatic League began first by establishing colonies between the Empire and the League. This reduced the distance between the two parts of what would become the larger Empire after the conquest, making it easier to govern the whole. To undertake an invasion of worlds on the edge of the Inner Sphere would require considerable effort and an abandonment of the model that worked so effectively. While the Scorpions are very invested in anti-piracy efforts, even those far afield (as I showed in one of the reborn ComStar trio 'Mechs in the RecGuide), this is as much about maintaining a keen edge on their troops' abilities as cleaning up the neighborhood. Most assuredly, their forces will engage any pirates from the Rim Territories, if the pirates are foolish enough to seek prey outward rather than in toward the Inner Sphere. Since the latter is much closer and thus requires less time and investment to raid, and since they've been around for 70 years, they'd be well-advised to mind their manners. But any attempt to occupy or conquer those worlds by the Empire isn't something I see develeloping given how long it would take to engineer. After all, the Scorpions now have a fully self-sufficient nation. They're not content to sit on their laurels, and they've added at least one Galaxy to their touman since the Crusade. They know what dangers lurk in the depths, after all. I'd say they're busily preparing for the next war, which is more likely to come to them than vice versa.
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My personal hope is this: If the Home Clans think about it, they realize attempting to conquer the Scorpion Empire is a counterproductive venture that will only sap their strength and detract from a new invasion of the Inner Sphere.
In effect, they would be spreading themselves thin once more, making a similar mistake to what the original invaders had made.
And now with HPG communication links, it would give away the element of surprise.
I could be wrong, of course. But I feel the silence from the Home Worlds backs this up.
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Just have to say your Awesome C is the scariest Awesome variant I have read about. And Spot on: Hellion Keshik is definitely a great sequel to Hanseatic Crusade.
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One thing I endeavored to show in OTP: Hanseatic Crusade is that the Scorpions have learned from the mistakes that the Invading Clans made. Instead of conquering vast swaths of territory far from home, and splitting their forces and focus, their conquest of the Hanseatic League began first by establishing colonies between the Empire and the League. This reduced the distance between the two parts of what would become the larger Empire after the conquest, making it easier to govern the whole. To undertake an invasion of worlds on the edge of the Inner Sphere would require considerable effort and an abandonment of the model that worked so effectively. While the Scorpions are very invested in anti-piracy efforts, even those far afield (as I showed in one of the reborn ComStar trio 'Mechs in the RecGuide), this is as much about maintaining a keen edge on their troops' abilities as cleaning up the neighborhood. Most assuredly, their forces will engage any pirates from the Rim Territories, if the pirates are foolish enough to seek prey outward rather than in toward the Inner Sphere. Since the latter is much closer and thus requires less time and investment to raid, and since they've been around for 70 years, they'd be well-advised to mind their manners. But any attempt to occupy or conquer those worlds by the Empire isn't something I see develeloping given how long it would take to engineer. After all, the Scorpions now have a fully self-sufficient nation. They're not content to sit on their laurels, and they've added at least one Galaxy to their touman since the Crusade. They know what dangers lurk in the depths, after all. I'd say they're busily preparing for the next war, which is more likely to come to them than vice versa.
Alternatively, if a full-scale conquest of the Rim Territories was not viable, perhaps a more measured approach could be an option?
To put it another way: perhaps the Scorpions could show up and claim control of a single Rim Territories system to begin with, akin to their establishment of a foothold in the Chaine Cluster. (Since the Scorpions are so keen on history, perhaps they might re-name the world in question to the name it went by during the first Star League.)
Such a holding might act as a waypoint to support rimward Seeker expeditions - such as their relatively recent visit to Solaris VII - while offering a useful distraction for the more hot-headed Trueborn warriors who might otherwise stir up trouble in the Empire proper.
And in the medium to long term, the Scorpions could try to pick off a neighbouring star system or two if circumstances permit...
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Just have to say your Awesome C is the scariest Awesome variant I have read about. And Spot on: Hellion Keshik is definitely a great sequel to Hanseatic Crusade.
There was back and forth over whether it should be the Awesome C or Awesome IIC, since it's really a complete remake. That happened above my pay grade, though. I'm just happy it's what it is. (See, I had it in mind when I gave the Hanseatic League the Awesome 9Q in the OTP, which took some back and forth of its own as I recall.) In the end, it's fairly simple but I think pretty, well, awesome. :)
At some point, the Empire will have to fight a war. Their touman is filled with warriors who want to make their mark. Holding them back will only work for so long. As the architect of things to this point, I hope it doesn't force them to make rash decisions that could lead to disaster. After all, it's not like in the Homeworlds where it was easy to throw your best against another Clan's best and let them beat each other's brains out. They've basically cleared the region of threats, and their warriors need worthy foes...
And thanks! The OTP and the two SOs were fun to craft!
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Alternatively, if a full-scale conquest of the Rim Territories was not viable, perhaps a more measured approach could be an option?
To put it another way: perhaps the Scorpions could show up and claim control of a single Rim Territories system to begin with, akin to their establishment of a foothold in the Chaine Cluster. (Since the Scorpions are so keen on history, perhaps they might re-name the world in question to the name it went by during the first Star League.)
Such a holding might act as a waypoint to support rimward Seeker expeditions - such as their relatively recent visit to Solaris VII - while offering a useful distraction for the more hot-headed Trueborn warriors who might otherwise stir up trouble in the Empire proper.
And in the medium to long term, the Scorpions could try to pick off a neighbouring star system or two if circumstances permit...
"There are always possibilities," Spock said, and it's certainly something that could happen. I'll note that winning a trial for an enclave on a Clan-held world is a far different matter from taking territory from non-Clan forces. They tend not to take such things in stride, and it would definitely escalate beyond a simple trial. In an actual fight, the Scorpions would mop the floor with the Territories, but then the Empire would be left vulnerable. It's not a short trip between the two. Now, if the Seekers get themselves into trouble digging for some relics or other, there might be a reason to send in the troops. It was kinda their fault the Crusade happened when it did, somewhat prematurely for Khan Scott's liking, so there's also precedent for that! (And Seeker Galaxy got tuned up hard in the Crusade.) The Scorpions are sporting at least seven Galaxies, which is pretty significant. It's eight if the PGCs are lumped together into Grunt Galaxy again.
Rather than military conquest, though, a mercantile operation to peel them off from Lyran or Sea Fox suppliers could spark a bigger conflict between the Empire and worthy foes...
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Well, I'm glad there is not state of war between the Scorpions and Sea Foxes. The Sea Foxes are the types that would welcome the competition.
I see the prominent ELH Bloodnames in existence. That's something many of us have been speculating about for quite some time. Barclay sibko decanted on Roche BEFORE they were Abjured? That's really interesting.
I already can't wait for the Scorpions to appear in future sourcebooks.
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I see the prominent ELH Bloodnames in existence. That's something many of us have been speculating about for quite some time. Barclay sibko decanted on Roche BEFORE they were Abjured? That's really interesting.
I already can't wait for the Scorpions to appear in future sourcebooks.
Remember why the Scorpions were abjured? ;) And I think you might mean Winston... ???
Tell Ray! And tell him you want me to write it! ;D
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"There are always possibilities," Spock said, and it's certainly something that could happen. I'll note that winning a trial for an enclave on a Clan-held world is a far different matter from taking territory from non-Clan forces. They tend not to take such things in stride, and it would definitely escalate beyond a simple trial. In an actual fight, the Scorpions would mop the floor with the Territories, but then the Empire would be left vulnerable. It's not a short trip between the two. Now, if the Seekers get themselves into trouble digging for some relics or other, there might be a reason to send in the troops. It was kinda their fault the Crusade happened when it did, somewhat prematurely for Khan Scott's liking, so there's also precedent for that! (And Seeker Galaxy got tuned up hard in the Crusade.) The Scorpions are sporting at least seven Galaxies, which is pretty significant. It's eight if the PGCs are lumped together into Grunt Galaxy again.
Rather than military conquest, though, a mercantile operation to peel them off from Lyran or Sea Fox suppliers could spark a bigger conflict between the Empire and worthy foes...
Hmm...
I took a look at the maps in First Succession War in order to try and figure out which Rim Territories systems had which Rim Worlds Republic system names - and it turns out that a number of these systems had been part of the short-lived Finmark Free Republic. So there's an added bit of history there to dig up, so to speak.
But then, there is another detail of note. During Operation REVIVAL, the invading Clans were mainly focused on the crimes of the Usurper when they showed up in former RWR systems, to the chagrin of the conquered populace. However, despite everything, the Great Father himself had considered the "post-Amaris" Rim Worlds to be under Star League protection. He was not pleased about the opportunism displayed by the Lyrans during Operation ALMARIC, though any effort to follow up on this was pre-empted by the Exodus. (Over in the Empires Aflame timeline, settling this "unfinished business" would lead the Terrans and Lyrans to co-sponsor the creation of the Rim Federation.)
So, if the Scorpions were to show up in Rim Territories space - in whatever capacity - they could portray themselves to the locals as the (belated) executors of Kerensky Senior's wishes towards them. What said locals might think of it all, however, is another matter...
And another thing: if there is going to be a greater degree of contact between the Scorpions and the Council of Six Clans - or is it seven now, with the return of the Smoke Jaguars? - might there be a Trial of Position to see if threads like this one should stay here, or possibly be moved "back" to the Clan sub-board?
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Remember why the Scorpions were abjured? ;) And I think you might mean Winston... ???
Tell Ray! And tell him you want me to write it! ;D
Yes, I do remember why they were Abjured. And of course I meant Winston! Lol...
Anyway, if you think it would help, I'll ask, but....
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if there is going to be a greater degree of contact between the Scorpions and the Council of Six Clans - or is it seven now, with the return of the Smoke Jaguars? - might there be a Trial of Position to see if threads like this one should stay here, or possibly be moved "back" to the Clan sub-board?
No one has really pointed out that the Sea Foxes clearly regard the Scorpions as Clan, not as abjured. I've got ideas on how that might lead to new developments, but there are a lot of moving parts to deal with when you move beyond the isolation of the Deep Periphery. I think unless the Scorpions officially gain some recognition that negates that abjuration, they're still a separate entity. I also like the Periphery and having the Scorpions thread here makes it cooler.
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Yes, I do remember why they were Abjured.
This was me acknowledging that turn of events and tying it into a new Bloodhouse.
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I really see the SO opening up the field like Tamar Rising. More people to fight at sub-invasion levels?
that is gold. Well done!
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Technically, isn't the Tamar Pact just the Chaos March 2.0?
TT
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Remember why the Scorpions were abjured? ;) And I think you might mean Winston... ???
Tell Ray! And tell him you want me to write it! ;D
DO IT! Start writing now ;D
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I really see the SO opening up the field like Tamar Rising. More people to fight at sub-invasion levels?
that is gold. Well done!
The Scorpions will be tied up with expanding their forces in the former Hanseatic League. The expansion into the Chainelane looks more like an attempt to keep trade that the Hanseatic League kept and to find the next challenge in their expansion. It looks like they may have competition with the Clan Sea Foxes but I see it (hopefully) more civilized.
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The Scorpions have already formed at least one new Galaxy since the Crusade (mentioned in RecGuide V23, I think), and the Sea Foxes zealously kept others from the Chainelane worlds. Winning that enclave was the Scorpions flexing on them, kind of testing their mettle against their biggest regional threat.
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SO on Helion Keshik continues the line of excellence I've loved from your work Doc. I'd love to see how the other Periphery powers end up during the start of the IlClan, especially if you ever get to tackle the Fronc Reaches again. Or even the Taurians/Calderon reapproachment and reunion...
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Thanks! Glad to hear you've liked my work!
I still love the Reaches. The sequel to "The Marshal Way" is floating around somewhere with the fiction guys, but it's been there for several years so I'm not confident it'll ever see the light of day. Shame, as I thought it was pretty damn good.
Hassle Ray that you want me to write more Periphery stuff! Maybe he'll listen! >:D
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No one has really pointed out that the Sea Foxes clearly regard the Scorpions as Clan, not as abjured.
Well I don't think any IS Clan cares really what the Homeworld Clans decreed after the Wars of Reavings, otherwise they would all be considered Abjured
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And now the Scorpions know that...
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The Abjured Clans outnumber the UntaintedTM Clans of the Homeworlds.
Last I checked might does not make wrong among the Children of Kerensky...
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And now the Scorpions know that...
sure? but the IS Clans were all "Abjured" before the Scorpions were...if anything, it should say more that the Scorpions don't consider the Foxes as Abjured
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The Scorpions have already formed at least one new Galaxy since the Crusade (mentioned in RecGuide V23, I think), and the Sea Foxes zealously kept others from the Chainelane worlds. Winning that enclave was the Scorpions flexing on them, kind of testing their mettle against their biggest regional threat.
Yep. And we already had some more details about them in Moving Forward.
sure? but the IS Clans were all "Abjured" before the Scorpions were...if anything, it should say more that the Scorpions don't consider the Foxes as Abjured
Yes and no. If you are talking to the Homeworld Clans, perhaps. But then again, those consider them all tainted.
Now, if you want to talk to the Clans in the IS, their opinion counts a lot heavier than that of the Homeworld Clans. Why would Clan Wolf care what any of the Homeworld Clans think? (That assumes the Homeworld Clans are even alive anymore.) If the Scorpions want to engage with the IS Clans, they have to somewhat play by their rules.
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Yes and no. If you are talking to the Homeworld Clans, perhaps. But then again, those consider them all tainted.
Now, if you want to talk to the Clans in the IS, their opinion counts a lot heavier than that of the Homeworld Clans. Why would Clan Wolf care what any of the Homeworld Clans think? (That assumes the Homeworld Clans are even alive anymore.) If the Scorpions want to engage with the IS Clans, they have to somewhat play by their rules.
the point being made was that the Diamond Sharks/Sea Foxes don't consider the Scorpions as Abjured
my point is, why would they? The Homeworld Clans Abjured the Scorpions long after the IS Clans already left the Homeworlds behind and were already themselves Abjured by said Homeworld Clans (including the Scorpions)
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my point is, why would they? The Homeworld Clans Abjured the Scorpions long after the IS Clans already left the Homeworlds behind and were already themselves Abjured by said Homeworld Clans (including the Scorpions)
Ah, then I misunderstood :)
We will have to see how the relationship between the Scorpions and the IS Clans will play out. I don't think Alaric has them on his radar. And we don't know what decision they are going to make after the end of Moving Forward. They were going to discuss their relationship with a potential ilClan, not necessarily accepting it or bowing to it, but also not necessarily not accepting it. I don't really see them bend the knee, though. The risk of losing what they have build through careful planing might be too great. But I can see them enter in a mutual beneficial relationship.
Either way, just speculating here. I have absolutely no insight into how things are going to progress from this point forward. I haven't asked, since I am currently not writing anything about the Scorpions.
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As I was scrolling to the MUL yesterday (as one does) I saw that the Scorpions have access to the Korvin ever since they conquered the Castilians, bringing it back from extinction. Is that new? Or did I just miss it? Either way, it was a nice surprise.
EDIT: And the Tiger and LVT-4 are on the list as well. This really makes me want to build a mixed second-line Binary.
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Yeah, by all appearances the PGCs of the Empire are full of some really cool stuff.
It's kind of a shame that Imperial society seems to be far more Clan than not, meaning there doesn't seem to be any room for militias that rate even below the PGCs, or for small private forces raised by influential civilians(the equivalent of a noble's personal forces, though in this case you'd likely have a merchant of some kind at the top), but I guess we can't have everything.
At this point I think the proper term Imperial law would use for such units would be "Pirate".
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Since they had to fight those private forces during the Crusade, I think the Scorpions would take a dim view of them on their new territory. With the early issues the Scorpions faced consolidating, future Hansa members of the merchant caste would have little political capital to try to reform such forces. And if any tried to build them in secret, their former serfs would waste little time ratting them out or taking matters into their own hands, especially now that they live far better as members of the laborer caste.
However, Clan police forces rate below PGCs, so there's a place for more eclectic force composition out there. :)
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Yeah, by all appearances the PGCs of the Empire are full of some really cool stuff.
It's kind of a shame that Imperial society seems to be far more Clan than not, meaning there doesn't seem to be any room for militias that rate even below the PGCs, or for small private forces raised by influential civilians(the equivalent of a noble's personal forces, though in this case you'd likely have a merchant of some kind at the top), but I guess we can't have everything.
At this point I think the proper term Imperial law would use for such units would be "Pirate".
The Scorpions may create or modify one of their Galaxies to protect their merchants. They have experience with their Seeker units but the Scorpion Empire is flexible enough that creating such a unit is not out of line. One other note the Hanseatic League had a poor experience with mercenaries before the Crusade so the chances of creating merc units is the same as the Ghost Bear Dominion directly hiring the GDL in pirate hunting.
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The Scorpions may create or modify one of their Galaxies to protect their merchants.
afree- Sounds like a mission for a rebuilt ELH... ;-)
They have experience with their Seeker units but the Scorpion Empire is flexible enough that creating such a unit is not out of line.
Agree fully; sorry to see the protos go, but I can see the Scorpions becoming big fans of quadvees, they seem like kind of Mech that would be popular with their freeborn mechwarriors and the trueborns being all "eh, sure, we'll allow it. whatever." :-)
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However, Clan police forces rate below PGCs, so there's a place for more eclectic force composition out there. :)
Oh hey, I have a Jade Falcon Watch force in the works, but completely forgot about doing something similar for the Scorps! Hmmm...horse-mounted police with a couple APCs as paddy wagons (or whatever they're called now), a couple armed Indys for heavy backup, and a command blimp on overwatch!
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Didn't TR mention something about Police 'Mechs as well?
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Oh hey, I have a Jade Falcon Watch force in the works, but completely forgot about doing something similar for the Scorps! Hmmm...horse-mounted police with a couple APCs as paddy wagons (or whatever they're called now), a couple armed Indys for heavy backup, and a command blimp on overwatch!
you better be naming them the Imperial Scorpion Mounted Police.
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As I was scrolling to the MUL yesterday (as one does) I saw that the Scorpions have access to the Korvin ever since they conquered the Castilians, bringing it back from extinction. Is that new? Or did I just miss it? Either way, it was a nice surprise.
EDIT: And the Tiger and LVT-4 are on the list as well. This really makes me want to build a mixed second-line Binary.
Vali, Vector, Vali, Vector, Vali, Vector....
I don't care how... C model or a IIC variant.
But Vali and Vector need to come back.
Doc! If you do get the chance, please make them great again!
TT
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Streamlabs sucks more memory than Chrome anymore, so I can't record videos for my yt channel as I once did because my poor computer can't hack it. I'm considering livestreams to continue my BattleTech Author Speaks videos. Any interest? Maybe Tuesday evening, around 6pm CST to talk about Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade?
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. . . Hmmm...horse-mounted police with a couple APCs as paddy wagons (or whatever they're called now), a couple armed Indys for heavy backup, and a command blimp on overwatch!
Juan Wagons?
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I saw that the Scorpions have access to the Korvin ever since they conquered the Castilians, bringing it back from extinction. Is that new? Or did I just miss it? Either way, it was a nice surprise.
In Objectives: Periphery the Castillans were making a retrofit of the Korvin. But the wording was kinda confusing. The book was set in 3076.
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They were manufacturing kits to retrofit existing Korvins. They were not building new ones at that time.
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Streamlabs sucks more memory than Chrome anymore, so I can't record videos for my yt channel as I once did because my poor computer can't hack it. I'm considering livestreams to continue my BattleTech Author Speaks videos. Any interest? Maybe Tuesday evening, around 6pm CST to talk about Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade?
Have you asked to join one of CGL's upcoming AMAs? That might be a good place to get more word out regarding the Scorpion Empire.
(Perhaps if or when we get closer to the release of the BattleTech Universe book?)
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Doc was in on one of the AMA's back last summer. I'm sure they would let him in to another.
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I've been on at least one AMA, but those are few and far between. I posted videos fairly regularly until I uprooted for a new job. Now that I'm settling in again, I intend to resume that. Once a week or twice a month are reasonable, I think. I enjoy making them, and I only got about halfway through the products I wrote for. Lots left to cover!
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I already think of "The Hat" when I think of Doc Swift on video or AMA.
As in, "Obey the Hat".
Or "The Hat tells me you're not right in the head."
;D
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Something else that occurred to me: should here be an IlClan-era Field Manual at some future point - say, after the current set of four "post-IlClan" books are out - there is now a good excuse to include the Scorpions in the mix. Well, at least those units posted to the Chaine Cluster.
By the way, can it be said which of the star systems named as being part of the Chaine Cluster on page 40 of ISP3 is the one hosting the new Scorpion enclave?
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They were manufacturing kits to retrofit existing Korvins. They were not building new ones at that time.
Yeah. They did produce them in the past IIRC?
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Yeah, but I think the start and end dates are unknown.
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my big hope the scorp empire builds it strength enough to go back to the clan homeworlds and clear it out and turning the homeworlds to a series of museum systems of SLDF and clan history showing what happened to those who couldn't adapt.
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They were the second strongest Clan in the Homeworlds before their Abjuration...I don't recall if they lost many forces when leaving or how many
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They lost a couple Galaxies in the WoR, but kept most of their forces together for the departure from the Homeworlds. They'd need to reactivate dead Galaxies or form some new ones to reach their former peak strength, and that's with Eta Galaxy already being created. (Though it's important to note that their current Galaxies have more Clusters than when they were in the Homeworlds. They could easily spin some off into at least one new Galaxy if they wanted to dilute their strength.)
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While folks are talking clusters, it is the loss of their Potemkins that makes going back as an invasion harder. The Scorpions sitting on that many Potemkins should have given them a major political bargaining chip going into Op Revival and afterwards supporting the OZs.
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my big hope the scorp empire builds it strength enough to go back to the clan homeworlds and clear it out and turning the homeworlds to a series of museum systems of SLDF and clan history showing what happened to those who couldn't adapt.
Some wayward Seeker(s) trying their coreward luck would be a solid hook to update in some small way what the Homeworlds situation is. Figure the Temple of the Nine Muses would be their fallen Eden, the Holy Grail, if you will. Even if they don't make it that far in before getting picked off by Manei Domini CASPAR VIs or Star Coyote BioProtoMechs, just some breadcrumb on what the hell has been going on would be divine. Otherwise, we haven't heard anything (not counting Icons) since ISP3/WoRS, right? Both from 2012...
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they should def do something with the homeworld clans. If not the scorpions returning they could have Alaric create his own explorer corps only to end up "kicking the proverbial ant hill"
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Some wayward Seeker(s) trying their coreward luck would be a solid hook to update in some small way what the Homeworlds situation is. Figure the Temple of the Nine Muses would be their fallen Eden, the Holy Grail, if you will. Even if they don't make it that far in before getting picked off by Manei Domini CASPAR VIs or Star Coyote BioProtoMechs, just some breadcrumb on what the hell has been going on would be divine. Otherwise, we haven't heard anything (not counting Icons) since ISP3/WoRS, right? Both from 2012...
The Scorpions evacuated the Temple of Nine Muses during their exodus, so it won't be their reason to return to the Homeworlds.
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Doc: Work’s work, but what would you say was the Scorpion project you most enjoyed working on? Both as a creator and a BT fan.
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The Crusade, without a doubt. It's not often you get to write an entire war by yourself.
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Then I'd bet Hellion Keshik still ranks up there.
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Oh, of course. There's only a few Empire products after all! They're all near the top. There's something else out there that I wrote that has yet to be released, though it's been scooped by some of what's already come out since.
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Oh, of course. There's only a few Empire products after all! They're all near the top. There's something else out there that I wrote that has yet to be released, though it's been scooped by some of what's already come out since.
First I am not sure what you mean in the last sentence.
Second I was wondering what the Scorpions what with sea fox trade routes and tech specs?
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I wrote something that was supposed to come out before OTP: Hanseatic Crusade, but things like a viral plague conspired to prevent its release.
The Scorpions took a while to return to their previous technological levels. They know they're behind where the IS and IS Clans are. Getting any technical data is a goldmine. With it they can pursue advancing to parity with the IS powers.
Trade routes are similarly desirable for the Empire and its powerful merchant caste and fleet.
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I'm curious how regular Clan Trade Castes will get along with the Sea Foxes since they essentially have a growing monopoly in the Inner Sphere.
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I don't think both sides will be selling the same thing. The Scorpions don't have the production capabilities of the Sea Foxes. No way they can sell Mechs left and right like the Sea Foxes do.
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They might be able to sell at a loss, though, and cut into the Fox market. They also sell unique products, which could threaten that looming monopoly.
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They might be able to sell at a loss, though, and cut into the Fox market. They also sell unique products, which could threaten that looming monopoly.
Redacted.
I can actually see that going down.
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They might be able to sell at a loss, though, and cut into the Fox market. They also sell unique products, which could threaten that looming monopoly.
That they could do.
I can also see them going into the information market. Moving Forward showed them getting really good at combining data and extrapolating information from different sources by combining them and building a full picture. It's not a skill easy to come by.
That might also be a skill they want to keep hidden, though.
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Something I have left unstated is what the Scorpion Watch might be up to. Some will surely be rooting out any lingering restive elements from the conquest, but the rest...? >:D
I mean, look how far the Seekers have gone. Who's to say there aren't Watch personnel riding shotgun?
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I would expect the Watch to have co-opted the Seekers . . . I mean, they make great Spec Ops teams for the Watch . . .
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i suspect it would become a mutual cooption, since the Watch also make a great research group for the seekers.
I also have to wonder. given the Scorpion watch's skill at gathering information.. are they the reason that Wolfnet was so effective? since we know the scorpions trained the dragoons, and certainly the wolf watch was never all that impressive.
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since we know the scorpions trained the dragoons, and certainly the wolf watch was never all that impressive.
Not until the late-great Star Colonel Ramil Kerensky put them on the map, of course.
Wolf Watch was definitely a late-bloomer.
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i suspect it would become a mutual cooption, since the Watch also make a great research group for the seekers.
I also have to wonder. given the Scorpion watch's skill at gathering information.. are they the reason that Wolfnet was so effective? since we know the scorpions trained the dragoons, and certainly the wolf watch was never all that impressive.
The old FASA? Covert Ops group had the Invasion Wolves be better at covert ops while the Falcons were the analysts.
Considering how much the Crusader Wolves had the Lyran border penetrated . . .
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Okay... I'm not much of a clan player and when I was for a long time I was looking a Ghost Bear but I keep thinking how much for the Scorpions could be.
So I am looking at a Seeker lead force set in the 3050/60 era what would it be.
1 mech a few support vehicles, maybe an old Leopard Dropship?
Help the new guy out?
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The old FASA? Covert Ops group had the Invasion Wolves be better at covert ops while the Falcons were the analysts.
Considering how much the Crusader Wolves had the Lyran border penetrated . . .
if you're refering to guide to covert ops that book had so many problems with it I'd not trust it if it told me the king of the 31st century battlefield was the Battlemech :)
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Okay... I'm not much of a clan player and when I was for a long time I was looking a Ghost Bear but I keep thinking how much for the Scorpions could be.
So I am looking at a Seeker lead force set in the 3050/60 era what would it be.
1 mech a few support vehicles, maybe an old Leopard Dropship?
Help the new guy out?
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Goliath_Scorpion#Seekers (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Goliath_Scorpion#Seekers)
Usually folks recommend a highly survivable, all-energy design for Seekers to keep the logistics down. Hard to beat the thick armor, SFE, dual peepers, quartet of ER Mediums, and heat neutral running alpha strike on the Kingfisher C in that timeframe.
To the extent Seekers are engaging more in banditry than upright Trials of Possession, I might opt for something faster with hands, like a Stormcrow Prime. Still well-armored with an all-energy, heat-neutral walking alpha strike.
Consider protomech escort. Scorpions built the Triton specifically for this duty.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Triton
I don’t recall any Scorpion vehicles. But support like a BattleMech Recovery Vehicle seems obvious, depending on how big an artifact you’re going after.
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Okay... I'm not much of a clan player and when I was for a long time I was looking a Ghost Bear but I keep thinking how much for the Scorpions could be.
So I am looking at a Seeker lead force set in the 3050/60 era what would it be.
1 mech a few support vehicles, maybe an old Leopard Dropship?
Help the new guy out?
One other consideration is look into old SLDF “energy boats”. If any possesses a few of those it is the Scorpion Goliath Seekers.
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Trade routes are similarly desirable for the Empire and its powerful merchant caste and fleet.
The Scorpion's have a big fleet? How did they get that?
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In the Crusade.
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In the Crusade.
The Hansa had enough jumpships to considered major.
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And the Hansa are now Imperials.
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The Scorpion's have a big fleet? How did they get that?
*sniffles* They did have the majority of the Clan Potemkins, a McKenna, and some other big guns.
Seekers- Consider a RP party . . . Mechwarrior, your DS pilot has a ASF in the hanger that they can fly while the DS is grounded, you have a point of Elementals that are probably solahma while being able to do some of the grunt work, give them a merchant for dealing, a tech with a Star League expertise, and yes a point of vehicles . . . driven/operated by more solahma. It would be considered a well equipped Seeker. Oh, yeah, don't they have familiars?
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To the extent Seekers are engaging more in banditry than upright Trials of Possession, I might opt for something faster with hands, like a Stormcrow Prime. Still well-armored with an all-energy, heat-neutral walking alpha strike.
My preference for playing a Seeker is a Man O' War H. It's got a hand, it's got the speed to quickly get into(or out of) trouble, it's tough, it's got the heavy damage to end a fight quickly, and it's got a solid energy armament so it can keep fighting even after the cannon ammo runs out. My only gripe is a lack of active probe, but that's what escorting Protos or suits are for.
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Seekers- Consider a RP party . . . Mechwarrior, your DS pilot has a ASF in the hanger that they can fly while the DS is grounded, you have a point of Elementals that are probably solahma while being able to do some of the grunt work, give them a merchant for dealing, a tech with a Star League expertise, and yes a point of vehicles . . . driven/operated by more solahma. It would be considered a well equipped Seeker. Oh, yeah, don't they have familiars?
Now I see people saying using clan mech, what about SL Royal design? If you are heading into Inner Sphere/ even the Rimward an Inner Sphere mech stands out less?
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Now I see people saying using clan mech, what about SL Royal design? If you are heading into Inner Sphere/ even the Rimward an Inner Sphere mech stands out less?
Very true, something like a Royal Black Knight perhaps?
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Now I see people saying using clan mech, what about SL Royal design? If you are heading into Inner Sphere/ even the Rimward an Inner Sphere mech stands out less?
by 3150 a clan mech woul;dn't stand out all that much
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Still gives away who you get your rig from, so to speak.
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It could just be battlefield salvage or scrap that was restored in any decent yard.
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Okay... I'm not much of a clan player and when I was for a long time I was looking a Ghost Bear but I keep thinking how much for the Scorpions could be.
So I am looking at a Seeker lead force set in the 3050/60 era what would it be.
1 mech a few support vehicles, maybe an old Leopard Dropship?
Help the new guy out?
Lion Wolf Dragoon-Class:
THG-11Eb : Star Commander
TDR-5S (C) : XO
WVE-5Nsl : MW
Puma-005b
Puma-005b
Turhan Original
Turhan Original
Infantry Point
Battle Armor Point
Battle Armor Point
Protomech Point : Early versions
TT
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TT I will be honest I'm impressed you guess so right what I was looking at on my Seeker Mech - THG-11Eb
Now my question would he have 2 fellow Seeker Mechwarriors or would they be Bondsmen?
I like the 2 Puma Tanks for security
but was thinking of a Rotunda for "discrete" looking at things. I mean no one would look at a 20 ton car funny... plus so u can play Spy Hunter... 8)
Mobile HQ for Dig site command unit
Mech Recovery Vehicle
Engineering Vehicle
2 platoons of Foot Infantry
Either a Royal Sabre or Thunderbird Aerospace Fighter to provide the dropship with "limited" protection and some airmobile recon ability.
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TT I will be honest I'm impressed you guess so right what I was looking at on my Seeker Mech - THG-11Eb
Now my question would he have 2 fellow Seeker Mechwarriors or would they be Bondsmen?
I like the 2 Puma Tanks for security
but was thinking of a Rotunda for "discrete" looking at things. I mean no one would look at a 20 ton car funny... plus so u can play Spy Hunter... 8)
Mobile HQ for Dig site command unit
Mech Recovery Vehicle
Engineering Vehicle
2 platoons of Foot Infantry
Either a Royal Sabre or Thunderbird Aerospace Fighter to provide the dropship with "limited" protection and some airmobile recon ability.
Make your thug seeker into a star commander with one point of tanks, 1 point of infantry (trained in boarding and dropsip defence) , one elemental point, and one aerospace point. A little mixed but gives you options.
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DOC?
Suggest : Record Sheets: 3050 Unabridged (Clan & Star League), p. 297
Might be what your looking for. Sure it's a custom one off, but in the day and age of this era, great minds think alike. And more importantly, it's not only a custom , it's canon legal custom!
And I'd like to replace my dropship suggestion to THIS (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Trojan).
She'll give you the ability to make your own vessel complements.
AND not only that, a plot line and a background of how you got it as well.
Back to TO&E...
I still say a pair of Badger C's with two Points of Infantry, one Foot ( I'm suggesting Clan Space Marine here) and one Elemental BA. Space Marine for the cross-trained boarding / security. For your Badgers would a pair of Prime be something you'd use? ( ERM and SSRM4 )
TT
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DOC?
Suggest : Record Sheets: 3050 Unabridged (Clan & Star League), p. 297
Might be what your looking for. Sure it's a custom one off, but in the day and age of this era, great minds think alike. And more importantly, it's not only a custom , it's canon legal custom!
And I'd like to replace my dropship suggestion to THIS (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Trojan).
She'll give you the ability to make your own vessel complements.
AND not only that, a plot line and a background of how you got it as well.
Back to TO&E...
I still say a pair of Badger C's with two Points of Infantry, one Foot ( I'm suggesting Clan Space Marine here) and one Elemental BA. Space Marine for the cross-trained boarding / security. For your Badgers would a pair of Prime be something you'd use? ( ERM and SSRM4 )
TT
Prefect dropship idea
and I love the Thug you directed me too.
Badger C prime nice design
?? would a Seeker be able to take Elemental BA?
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Well, bondsmen them, they don't have to be a full point either... Though you're correct in the fact abstractions work, just not everyone uses that.
So if you have SO book... Check out the abstraction rules.
TT
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Headcanon supported by nothing:
The ability of Confederate-class DropShips to transport and support a small ground force for long periods of time means that those remaining in the Scorpion fleet are highly prized, especially for small Seeker missions. While no permanent conversions have been made, Confederate crews have also proved adept at setting up surprisingly comfortable bunk quarters within 1 or 2 unoccupied Mech Cubicles, providing sufficient space for a small group of Seeker Mechwarriors to be accompanied by supporting Battle Armor Points as well as lower castes support personnel.
With the absorption of large numbers of Hansa Manatees into the fleet, studies are under way to determine if vessels of this ancient class could be permanently refitted into a similar configuration, as they are largely unsuited to regular transport duties in any Clan-style military. It is the hope of all personnel involved that this project would also boost the Manatee's armor levels to levels considered acceptable in the current millennium.
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Could the Manatees be used to transport Battle Armor points? It would be able to do it, i would imagine. Sorry I don't have my books to go further, but roughly using sarna.
A Transport bay (a ship one for dropships) used as Battle Armor Bays weigh 2/1 tons. All Infantry Bays can be combined into a single, unified infantry bay slot, regardless of tonnage or number of troopers, when used on combat or support vehicles. Infantry compartments can be of any size, fitting within 1 space, holding 1 troop for each ton.
Under the Advanced Rules for Battle Armor four PA(L) troopers or two Light Battle Armor troopers can be accommodated in a 1 ton Battle Armor Bay. Medium suits use the standard rules, while Heavy and Assault suits require 1.5 tons and 2 tons of space respectively.
So there maybe usable room.
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I don't discuss customs, but if the devs were so inclined to take a crack at it, If point out that if you want to carry anything smaller than a mech, there's a LOT of room on a Manatee. :)
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it is likely that a lot of the Manatee's built by the Hansa were the original cargo carrying version, not just the mech carrier variant. the hansa were very merchant oriented after all.
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Both are available per the MUL, and I don't know of any way to confirm the ratio beyond wild speculation.
Honestly, given the fact that the RDF's experience prior to the Crusade(and the buildup to it) was almost exclusively in small-unit actions, it would not surprise me to learn that the Manatee was one of their favorite DropShip classes. If you have a strong aerospace fleet to cover it and think you can prevent it from getting shot on the ground, the Manatee is an extremely good light transport, one I might actually prefer over the Leopard in these circumstances.
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The merchants would have built gobs of the standard version. The RDFs would have used the 'Mech variant.
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Makes sense. Their engineers would have had literally centuries to refine the design and iron out any quirks in it.
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But does that dropship make sense as the Hansa common dropship . . . IMO that depends on their jumpship fleet. I mean we are talking about a faction that is set up, big fish/small pond, as a space going trading power. If their JS are limited to smaller versions that have at best 3 collars, I would expect the merchants to move to bigger cargo DS IF their trade levels warrant . . . OR to be a merchant power, they may not have ships with large numbers of collars but they have a lot of jumpships.
Personally, for their footprint and just how small each trading partner/opportunity would be . . . I would expect a lot of the smaller jumpships with perhaps the handful of Star Lord or equivalents being in the RDF's hands.
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Cargo ships would have been necessary within the League itself, not just outside it. As a low-cost vessel, it should be expected in high numbers for a mercantile power.
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It is not the dropship cost itself, it is how many collars they have to move things period. It is where you set the efficiency marker- 3 collar JS with Jumbos, Mammoths & what should be larger w/o Behemoth problems.
Or go for large numbers of collars (IE, SOMEONE should have pumped 8 & 9 collar JS, if not baby Potemkins) which allows you to transport more of the smaller DS.
If we are talking about a wide roaming merchant marine, as suggested by fluff, then having 2 or 3 collar JS spread through the League and trading with their economic vassals across that region of space makes more sense since it allows them to disperse the most valuable commodity in BTU across more space. The operating costs of a Jumbo (50ish crew) would not be too much greater than a Manatee (5 crew for unarmed), taking into account the Jumbo carries about 10 times the cargo for 10 times the crew while offering other functions- self defense, passengers & small craft being the primary ones.
. . . if the League had the Manatee, they should IMO have the DroST IIa (or clone) as a contemporary design, and the late Age of War Jumbo.
As the 'local' producer of industrial/technological goods, the Hanseatic League would ideally be set up in a sort of triangle trade . . .
Load up industrial goods from the home factories
goes to-
farming/biologicals settlement, trades out agromechs & other industrial products turning over 50-60% of their cargo space
goes to-
mining/fuel settlement, trades out mining mechs, pumps/refining equipment and the bulk foodstuffs taken on at stop 2 for refined metals, distillates, and other resources
goes to-
League home port, sells cargo of refined metals & distillates from stop 3 along with luxury/exotic foods & biological compounds from stop 2 to load back up on industrial products
While the Manatee is not a great interstellar trader because it offers a paltry 1k tons moved on a single drop collar, they MIGHT make brisk sales selling whole dropships to trade partners. The Manatee would make a pretty good intersystem tramp freighter, and sales of the dropship would be a good means to exert economic hegemony over other systems. It would allow developing systems access to asteroid/planetoid/moon mining for resources, refining fuel from gas giants, and getting water from Kupier Belt objects by offering economic intersystem transport.
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I would imagine Manatees would be most common within the League itself or along known routes to 'safe' destinations, with Trojans being what you find going to more far-flung systems or out into the wilds.
Similarly, a Manatee is more suited to transporting high-value-low-mass stuff like luxury goods or advanced mechs/vehicles, or even zero-mass goods like music recordings or entertainment programs. Who knows how far-flung the audience for a long-running Hansa telenovela really is?
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I think it's important to point out that the Hansa had a surplus of JumpShips (and now the Goliath Scorpions have one...), but no classes are stated. They aren't tied down like most Deep Periphery powers.
Regarding large DropShips: It's more economically feasible to fill those massive beasts for each trip rather than fill them partially. That might delay runs for quite some time, especially for single system hops. Smaller DropShips cost less (fuel, maintenance) and can be filled faster. That means they can load, transport, and offload faster than the big boys. When profits are running on a razor's edge, keeping the revenue flowing is important. Large merchants could probably handle delays created by waiting for cargo, but smaller concerns (especially those looking to move up) would be more dependent on constant operation. Keeping it parked on the ferrocrete costs money that could be made in transit.
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Similarly, there's always the practice of doing an initial sale at a loss in order to open a new market. Send a Manatee or Trojan first, and sell some IndyMechs that to an isolated world are likely worth their weight in gold. The cargo bay full of raw ore you're coming back with might not be worth as the mechs you sold...but the market is there now, and next time you can send a Mule.
And if that Mule is carrying heavy refining equipment, then the ships you send after THAT are gonna be bringing refined metals instead of raw ore, and you're making a fortune.
And if you do things right your customers are gonna get richer too from this boost to their industrial base, and that's when you send another Manatee...loaded with luxury goods for sale. :)
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Oh, I am all for the Hansa having operated Libertys & Leviathans, just not expecting that . . .
As for the large cargo DS, I was not suggested they were partially filled, merely that their cargo partially changes over at each destination with the final return to Hansa territory bringing in the high value materials they exchanged for their industrial products. It can also be that it is only worth it for a dropship to hit a destination once every 4 or 5 months on a trade route. It comes back around to IF the merchant marine operates the smaller JS, basically anything smaller than Star Lords- which matches up with IS, then that cargo costs more using a Manatee over a Jumbo due to economy of scale with that collar. The drop collar is the most expensive & rare commodity in BTU and should have pushed for cargo dropships to be larger as the overall numbers of jumpships declined. You are looking at the transit fee for the dropship's COGs on a Jumbo being 10% of what a Manatee would have to charge.
Your low operation costs for the Manatee is why I said it would be excellent for intersystem trade, making it analogous to a ocean barge or coastal trader. The Manatee shipyard would, IMO, absolutely try to court single-system colony trade partners as buyers of the dropship because it allows them access to their home system w/o having to devote resources to native production for the capability.
For a bit of comparison . . . the Cutty Sark on it's first trip carried a bit under 600 tons of tea back to the UK if the converter I used was right. So a Manatee carries a it over 1.5 times the Cutty Sark's cargo load.
One thing for the RDF . . . didn't the Manatee pre-date current battlemech drop technology? Unlike the modern Union or Leopard, the Manatee actually has to land to offload the mechs?
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One thing for the RDF . . . didn't the Manatee pre-date current battlemech drop technology? Unlike the modern Union or Leopard, the Manatee actually has to land to offload the mechs?
That's a fluff-only thing, with absolutely zero rules support. Similarly, that fluff only refers to ships in Terran Hegemony service - for all we know, Hansa shipwrights (or even the IS Houses during the SL years) have corrected that deficiency in the design. 700 years is a LONG time to fiddle with the plans for a DropShip.
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especially since we know they were building non-primitive battlemechs even before the WoB and Scorpions got involved in the region. so it wouldn't be too hard to beleive that a more recent design like a Union or Leopard made its way out there for them to obtain and study, letting them update their mechbay designs to post-age of war standards
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I understand it is fluff . . . but we do not get up-armored dropships- like the Black Eagle getting a (26xx) version that exchanges Primitive Armor for then modern, or the Canopian Dictators getting (307x) where they have better armor than the original version. So without a canon reference, we are left with the design still having that drawback. Is it the only mech-carrier DS with that drawback?
One way to answer about the Manatee though . . . did the RDF counterattack make any combat drops?
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Their JumpShip numbers didn't decline. Again: They had a surplus of JumpShips. In a region where JumpShip numbers dropped, your argument would prevail. But that's not the case in the League.
The RDF had more than one DropShip class. See the RAT in OTP: Hanseatic Crusade. Combat drops could be performed with something other than a Manatee if that restriction existed.
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I was not saying their numbers declined- no ROM or infrastructure destruction to deal with. What I was saying that was the IS and why the average hauler there should have moved to carry more than the Mule.
For the League the question is can the expansion of their trading sphere keep up with their jumpship production . . . and BTU's jumpship production typically answers that with a no. So if you cannot gain more collars, you are still going to want to put more on each of those finite collars you will have getting back to that economy of scale. The more cargo each dropcollar moves, the cheaper the cargo gets. Which also means the cost point per ton for something traded on a interstellar scale would be marginal or even not profitable for a Manatee would be profitable for a Jumbo or some other larger cargo ship.
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I was not saying their numbers declined-
The drop collar is the most expensive & rare commodity in BTU and should have pushed for cargo dropships to be larger as the overall numbers of jumpships declined.
You seem to have suggested it as the reason to support your assertion for them replacing all the small cargo vessels with larger ones. There's clearly no need to push for larger DropShips, since they would only have needed to do so if the number of their JumpShips had declined, which it did not. One might even suggest that since they increased their JumpShip number by various means, the opposite would have happened.
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This also assumes that there's functionally no upper limit to the amount of goods you can produce, and/or that the customers you can find can/will buy everything you bring, and/or there's no limit to the amount of stuff that can/will be yours in return.
If you can produce 20,000 tons worth of Bop-It IICs a year, but your various customers are only willing/able to buy 500 tons of Bop-It IICs, then why use a Mule to ship them when a far smaller ship can do the same job for cheaper?
(Yes, I'm aware that DropShips can carry more than one type of goods at a time. It's a very quick and dirty metaphor. VERY dirty if you know what the residents of Space Ohio actually do with Bop-It IICs.)
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Doc, the sentence before that referenced the IS and 'overall' as in existence. No matter what, their jumpship numbers are finite- IF they were trying to expand their mercantile sphere of influence either by gaining more colony customers or more frequent trips it would require more efficient use of those drop collars. My last statement was that they might not have gone in to the same degree the Inner Sphere should have, but still as they expanded trade they would want more cargo moved on those limited collars.
Weirdo, I agree with that but the smaller ship is only cheaper in it's operation- not the jump cost. The cost they pay to use the collar is the same for a small DS or a large DS- a large DS is just able to spread that cost out among more goods. I understand your example but consider this . . . during the age of sail- which oddly enough the end gets close to the same cargo load (ignoring BT's mass vs volume inaccuracy). During that time, cargo loads were things like precious metals, gems, alcohol, tea, spices, and fabrics- most high value, low mass/bulk with precious metals being a outlier due to the value. Cargo loads of things like bulk grain or other food stuffs were not shipped half-way around the world because it had no profit margin for the costs of transport. Fast foward to steam power and metal hulls which allowed more direct/faster transport along with larger hulls to carry more, and things that were previously unprofitable to ship became profitable.
So say when you delivered your Bop It IICs before you only accepted refined rare metals from mining worlds/colonies, and such things as rum, bolts of cotton or other fabric, concentrated organic dyes, and rubber extracts from ag worlds. Take a larger cargo ship and now you can trade for metals (molybdem vs say nickel) that would not have been profitable to haul before b/c the transport costs were too high- spread over a 1000 tons of cargo instead of 10+k tons of cargo. So now you might also import unwashed cotton (might be thinking of wool) which has uses for water resistant cloth IIRC, along with the bolts of cotton.
The colony can increase their production of raw materials without having to expand their refinement & processing facilities to make use of the increased production- broader base of the triangle without having to expand the layers on top of it. So, simplified example . . . every week the colony mined 10 tons of ore to refine and get 2 tons of pure ingots. Now they might be able to mine 15 tons, still refine to get 2 tons of ingots, but also because the dropship can haul away more they might be able to sell 5 tons of ore and 2 tons of slag that can be used to make fertilizer (to be sold to the ag world) back home.
It makes a feedback loop, the ability of a Hansa DS to take more in trade gives the world they visit more buying power, thus buying more Hansa goods.
Then again, this is all world building in a way FASA never looked at or really provided any guidance beyond 'the economy works.'
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That's why I'm confused. Why mention what happened in the IS when the circumstances there don't apply to the HL? There's about as little in common between the Hansa and the Inner Sphere nations. There's no reason to expect similar behaviors. And I'd caution against expecting any behavior you might consider rational from a people running a slave economy.
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Because in the Inner Sphere the Monoliths and Star Lords are rare and mostly in the service of the militaries, it would be hard to believe the Hansa have a greater ratio of those type of ships than what would be found in the IS. The most common JS we are told is the . . . Merchant? or was it the Invader . . . either way, 3 collars would be the upper end of a typical Hansa merchant ship.
While not the IS, it still does not change that the bottleneck for moving a army or engaging in trade is the limited number of dropship collars available- they are the rarest and most valuable commodity in BTU. I want to say the merc books under transportation say renting a collar is 200k c-bills per jump. Which means a Manatee has to charge 200 cbills to each ton of cargo while a Jumbo FREX would be charging 20 c-bills per ton.
Also, the trade practices I was stipulating were predatory- like doing the 'company store' on worlds/colonies/systems outside the Hansa borders. Such as selling a Manatee to a settled system that is a trade partner instead of them building the local infrastructure to build one . . . they get dependent on such a ship and the Hansa has a locked in deal to sell parts.
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Those rates don't necessarily apply in a place where C-bills never existed. Like the Hanseatic League (because there were no HPGs there, and thus no ComStar). The Hansa aren't bound to the same limits and concerns as any Inner Sphere entity, including mercenaries.
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It is still a economic measure of volume expressing the cost of transporting. Hansa script, whatever, the economic cost of jumping from one place to another still gets tacked on the cost of the goods, the same ratio would apply to a load of cargo . . . interstellar transport costs of a Jumbo are going to be 10% per ton of what it will cost a ton of Manatee goods.
I mean, I could say it costs 140000 Hansa megabucks for a DS to hitch a ride one jump, the ratio is still going to be a 10-1 cost difference for interstellar travel, or 140 per ton on the Manatee vs 14 per ton on the Jumbo.
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A quick question, as i dont have my books at hand:
What are the color schemes (that we know) of the current Scorpion Empire Galaxies/Clusters?
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My guess is that any Galaxy that can trace a lineage to a pre-Reavings unit would retain those colors. The Scorpions have always held a strong reverence for connections to the past, though admittedly they've also proven to be unafraid of change.
Aside from those older schemes and the new Hellion Keshik, we just don't know.
It's pure headcanon, but I like to think that when Omega Galaxy was first formed it kept the crazy yellow-and-green stripes of Nueva Castile and continues to use that. Similarly, while it would not surprise me to learn that Beta adopted a new scheme when it formally became Hellion Galaxy, I'm continuing to paint all my stuff in the published tan-and-black colors, even newer machines.
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A quick question, as i dont have my books at hand:
What are the color schemes (that we know) of the current Scorpion Empire Galaxies/Clusters?
Unless stated otherwise (or on CSO), existing camo schemes remain unchanged. For new units, if not stated or on CSO, then they are presently undefined.
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With Tau Galaxy due to the Eridani influence wouldn’t surprise me if other Trinaries or clusters took on colours of former SLDF units to “keep the dream alive”.
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I think the deal with the Manatee like allot of other things in BT boils down to: You use what you have and make due with it!!
The Hansa have the specs and tools to make Manatees so that's what gets used. Is it the best option for a large trading polity.
Probably not but that's what they have. The big markets get what Mules and Jumbo's are available, everyone else get a Manatee.
The escorts get Centurion light ASF and Vulcan primitive heavy ASF cause that's what the local factories churn out.
The top RDF units get the few Unions/Overlords. The local gov gets Manatees to move things around the planet/system.
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I think my favorite part of the Manatee isn't actually the very large bulk cargo bay. It may have the cubicles for a mech lance, but in actuality that ship is easily capable of transporting a combined-arms company. The ship lands, deploys the mechs immediately, and those set up a security perimeter while everybody else aboard spends a few hours offloading a couple lances of hovertanks and APCs for an infantry company.
Not so good for smash and grab raids where extracting under fire is to be expected, but if your mission is to just level a pirate base or settlement it's a good way to hit them with a lot more force than they might be expecting just going by observed incoming ships(assuming you were even spotted coming in). And if such a raid goes sour and you need to bug out fast, it's not THAT severe a loss to spike the vees and just evacuate the crews and infantry.
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I have to agree the Manatee doesn't make much sense if JumpShip availability is limited. You'd want max out carrying capacity of the drop ships attached. It would if real like freight costs through the roof. It likely you want to be using Jumbo or larger dropship if your transport freight or beat up Dictator or Union for Mechs.
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You're assuming that the larger DropShips are available in the numbers you'd need for this. Got any evidence?
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It's not just availability. This is the Deep Periphery. It's like the old frontier. People don't stop using something that still works, or that can be fixed at any extent. They'd use their old, small DropShips until they simply fell apart and could no longer reach orbit. Even if they had the money to buy a new, larger vessel, they'd refuse while the old one still ran.
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I imagine the same would apply to designs for DropShips. Their yards might have the specs for Mules, but they know Manatees like the backs of their hands and know how to build those so they'll last centuries. They probably still build Mules and Dictators because sometimes you NEED the capacity, but the older ship is just too well trusted to abandon.
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MoC managed acquire some pristine Dictators during the Jihad. They had to come from somewhere. There no heavy industry in their end of the universe aside from their own, which last I check didn't include Dictators.
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What does that have to do with the Hansa?
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What does that have to do with the Hansa?
Aren't they building them too?
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They have some. Whether they're building any is unknown. And that still doesn't make comments about the MoC(which is almost literally on the exact opposite side of inhabited space) relevant to this thread, unless you're implying one of these incredibly distant nations is selling Dictators to the other.
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It might be a while before the Master Unit List is updated to account for the Scorpion Empire of the IlClan Era. That said, in light of the events portrayed in Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik, might it be possible for certain Dark Age-era IS Clan General units, such as the Hammerhead BattleMech, might now be available (even in limited numbers) to the Scorpion touman?
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It might be a while before the Master Unit List is updated to account for the Scorpion Empire of the IlClan Era. That said, in light of the events portrayed in Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik, might it be possible for certain Dark Age-era IS Clan General units, such as the Hammerhead BattleMech, might now be available (even in limited numbers) to the Scorpion touman?
Unless something changes it depends on how many the Scorpions can bid, buy, or batchall.
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I'd rather see the Goliath Scorpions see what's being used in the IS and develop their own units to counter them.
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I'd rather see the Goliath Scorpions see what's being used in the IS and develop their own units to counter them.
To do so ideally they'd wanna have their own versions to test and examine in depth.. best of both worlds :)
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So we might see the reconquista omni aka Orion omni from the Goliath Scorpions.
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To do so ideally they'd wanna have their own versions to test and examine in depth.. best of both worlds :)
They have simulators for that.
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All I want are Scorpion Empire configs for the Perseus and a Clan Banshee 3S, because I want to see people scream in terror as a 95 ton oft disdained unit turns them into paste...
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...Clan Banshee...
Two fists or dezgra.
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All I want are Scorpion Empire configs for the Perseus and a Clan Banshee 3S, because I want to see people scream in terror as a 95 ton oft disdained unit turns them into paste...
There is already a clan Banshee, its the Regent.
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Nah, we need a proper Banshee C. If we can get an Urbanmech IIC, a Banshee C should be no issue.
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The League built Banshees (likely the BNC-3S and the -5S) on Falsterbo, so it's certainly possible, given the Scorpions took the AWS-9Q built on Braunschweig and turned out the Awesome C. Thus, the result would probably be a Banshee C, with its origin as the -3S or -5S obscure without a TRO writeup.
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The League built Banshees (likely the BNC-3S and the -5S) on Falsterbo, so it's certainly possible, given the Scorpions took the AWS-9Q built on Braunschweig and turned out the Awesome C. Thus, the result would probably be a Banshee C, with its origin as the -3S or -5S obscure without a TRO writeup.
One could do quite worse than simply converting the Banshee-3S to Clan-tech. You could do some nasty things with it.
Ruger
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Yup, they are. I've built a 3 and a 5S Banshee C for the Scorpion Empire, along with a Zeus C and Thunderbolt C 3. I figure the Wasp 3M, Locust 3S, Phoenix Hawk 3D, 3S, and Wolverine 7D lines will get either converted to C or IIC lines, dismantled, or issued to PGCs. The Surtur I'd next on my list since I can see plasma cannons and Clan SRMs in its future...
I am curious about the former Hansa tank lines. Would the SE bother with them, or just issue the equipment as is? Inquiring minds want to know....
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I think that even the Scorpions would acknowledge the utility of Demolishers. I also think there will always be a need for such units for solahma warriors and those who either fail their Trial of Position or need a second try to take it. Vehicles are a good place for those who can still contribute militarily but are lesser-skilled than those who pass their trial and become MechWarriors.
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Thanks for the quick response, Doc. I appreciate all of your willingness to answer questions about the Scorpion Empire.
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For now, I'm the one who knows the most about them. When that changes, hopefully my successor does the same!
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Finally got around to reading the Scorpion story in Shrapnel 6. I like the way the Empire is developing, but I am sad to see protomechs go away.
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Finally got around to reading the Scorpion story in Shrapnel 6. I like the way the Empire is developing, but I am sad to see protomechs go away.
Glad you liked the story. Protomechs were simply not something that could be realistically explained being available to the Empire. They had to move a lot of stuff. They are upgrading existing production lines. Protomechs are a very unique technology there is nothing in their new realm to use as a stepping stone. There were higher priorities.
It's one of the things Goeff told me to put in there, other things we talked about and developed together. We were coordinating pretty much everything in this story to paint one big Scorpion Empire image over all the products in the pipeline. Pretty sure the PM extinction did also show up in one of the other sources released recently.
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Are there any other Empire stories out there?
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Another question, is the MUL up to date for the Empire?
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Yes
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Are there any other Empire stories out there?
Not to my knowledge, no.
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Glad you liked the story. Protomechs were simply not something that could be realistically explained being available to the Empire. They had to move a lot of stuff. They are upgrading existing production lines. Protomechs are a very unique technology there is nothing in their new realm to use as a stepping stone. There were higher priorities.
It's one of the things Goeff told me to put in there, other things we talked about and developed together. We were coordinating pretty much everything in this story to paint one big Scorpion Empire image over all the products in the pipeline. Pretty sure the PM extinction did also show up in one of the other sources released recently.
Who? :(
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Wasn't point of the ProtoMechs was they could be made economically? All the lans bagged the technology. Only fundamental problem with them is what they have to do to make pilots.
The Empire should be able keep these machines in touaman.
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I've covered this before. ProtoMechs went extinct because they require additional production lines and advanced considerations to put them into the field. It could be as simple as every surgeon who knew how to implant circuitry into human bodies died or was left in the Homeworlds. Just like it's unknown how ancients built the pyramids or other structures from antiquity, Imperials wondered how ProtoMech pilots got their circuitry implants. But diverting resources better spent on BattleMechs and battlesuits was the motivation for allowing them to go extinct (see SO: Hellion Keshik, page 3).
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I've covered this before. ProtoMechs went extinct because they require additional production lines and advanced considerations to put them into the field. It could be as simple as every surgeon who knew how to implant circuitry into human bodies died or was left in the Homeworlds. Just like it's unknown how ancients built the pyramids or other structures from antiquity, Imperials wondered how ProtoMech pilots got their circuitry implants. But diverting resources better spent on BattleMechs and battlesuits was the motivation for allowing them to go extinct (see SO: Hellion Keshik, page 3).
The Ancients didn't build the pyramids, that was the Go'auld.
ProtoMechs came from when the Jaguars had a high tech-level industrial base, but not a lot of resources. Once the Scorpions got to their new home they had many resources, but not the high-tech industrial base.
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They had territory. That isn't the same as having resources. Either way, building the industry consumes resources. The same holds for creating new factories and production lines to build different unit types. With the ability to manufacture advanced materiel on their Hephaestus-type station, building PMs would have been possible, but at the cost of resources that could instead be used to build 'Mechs and battlesuits. So it was indeed the Khan's refusal to devote resources to the effort.
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hopefully proto's will continue to see use with at least some factions (Hells Horses and Ravens for example.) for that matter i could see the new ilkhanate/star league adopting them as a way to maximize combat power (sure the wolves inherited Terra and fortress republic, but not exactly intact, and they now have to police an inner sphere nearly a thousand times their size.. and do it without reliable HPG's. so massive increase in sibko production and use of proto's to fill out the forces of the "elite" units seems reasonable to me.)
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The Ancients didn't build the pyramids, that was the Go'auld.
ProtoMechs came from when the Jaguars had a high tech-level industrial base, but not a lot of resources. Once the Scorpions got to their new home they had many resources, but not the high-tech industrial base.
joking aside, the process by which the Pyramids where built is pretty well understood TBH.
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joking aside, the process by which the Pyramids where built is pretty well understood TBH.
Well understood yes, but nobody's been motivated to build their own for quite some time. I assume that if the Scorpions decided protomechs were a priority, they could recreate them within a decade or two's worth of effort. But it's unlikely - protomechs were invented not because they're a good idea in an of themselves, but to solve a resource scarcity problem. The Scorpion Empire doesn't have that problem, so they don't need that solution.
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Well understood yes, but nobody's been motivated to build their own for quite some time. I assume that if the Scorpions decided protomechs were a priority, they could recreate them within a decade or two's worth of effort. But it's unlikely - protomechs were invented not because they're a good idea in an of themselves, but to solve a resource scarcity problem. The Scorpion Empire doesn't have that problem, so they don't need that solution.
yeah pretty much, what clans remaining use protos? the hells horses and snow ravens are pretty much it yeah?
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pretty much, yeah. and the nova cats did as well before they got almost wiped out. (no idea if any survived to make it to the Clan Protectorate)
i'm not sure where the Sea Foxes stand on protomechs. though i have no doubt that they could start producing them if anyone wanted to buy them.
that said, iirc onyl the Jade falcons are actively anti-protomech, the Ghost bears just never had the aerospace phenotype they were designed to be piloted by, and the wolves just decided not to invest in them.
(the biggest users of proto's had been the homeworld clans, the remainder of which presumably are still using them. but with no current information, they're effectively non-entities)
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i'm not sure where the Sea Foxes stand on protomechs. though i have no doubt that they could start producing them if anyone wanrted to buy them.
It makes you wonder if the Sea Foxes will go directly into the mercenary trade but I doubt they got into the Prototech since it is a niche market that few outside the CHH or RA have any interest in. I doubt the Wolf Empire will invest in it unless the Smoke Jaguars still have the prototypes in their possession.
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The whole protomech argument is all highly subjective. It comes down to author fiat. It is real odd that you had mechs getting armed with protomech AC8s because they made it a point to bring lots of them to Castillians space if they didn't want to restart production of them later.
As for the resources, there is zero reason they could not have brought all the tooling with them and kept them in mothballs, till the time was right.
Another thing that bothers me about it, is that the Crimson Seekers book made a point of highlighting the role of an elite protomech pilot, so we start developing our home brew units in that direction, and then poof, they get zapped. I don't blame the second author for having a different vision, that happens..I do think the editing team and the developers dropped the ball not splitying the difference because as a consumer it's not cool to get your chain yanked like that.
I think the developers and editors should have protected the flovour of the faction as set out in ISP3, so as to keep the direction of things. One of the other users (Wierdo?) Was talking about how they had a good excuse to get their Legacy mini in with the unit direction set out in ISP3 and Crimson Seekers ...it would be a heck of a let down to paint up a Cluster or two worth of mechs and Protos and then find out that the the next era RAT and MUL availability completely switched up directions.
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It happens. The Raven Alliance, Hell's Horses and the Homeworld Clans will simply have to carry the Protomech torch boldly into the IlClan era. The Seekers managed to keep the original Crockett and the Flashman available to me alongside Clan Awesomes, Toyamas, and the Banshee 3S. The Clan Castilian Hanseatic Helion Goliath Scorpion Ummayid Star Leauge Word of Blake Empire can shine on like the crazy diamond it is.
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Silly question, where is the most up to date listing of the Scorpions military organization?
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Silly question, where is the most up to date listing of the Scorpions military organization?
OTP: Hanseatic Crusade has listings of the Scorpion and Hansa forces before the Crusade, but we don't have a list for their current state
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OTP: Hanseatic Crusade has listings of the Scorpion and Hansa forces before the Crusade, but we don't have a list for their current state
Yeah I figured that was the most recent. Hopefully we will get an update soon. Might have been nice to add to Touring the Stars: Braunschweig
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touring the stars have very strict word counts and formatting
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They're also not focused on militaries.
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OTP: Hanseatic Crusade has listings of the Scorpion and Hansa forces before the Crusade, but we don't have a list for their current state
A new Galaxy was noted in the ilClan Recognition Guide series. (I might have mentioned it somewhere else, too. Perhaps in Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik.)
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Yeah but it would be nice to get an update.
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Sure, but most people would hate whatever I came up with.
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So if Protos are out, what are the uniquely Scorpion ways of playing combined-arms? We've got the air assault fighter/Elemental groups, and the specialist command stars, what else is there?
And what about mixed tech? We've got Clan stuff, Blakist stuff, Hansa IS Standard, IS Intro, and even some armed IndyMechs, but in which units will that stuff be found? It seems fair to assume the front-line Galaxies will be mostly Clan with a smattering of higher-level IS, but where would the rest of it be found?
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I wonder if ultralight Mechs could fill the void for protomechs. Such like the Emerald Harrier/Road Runner.
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And what about mixed tech? We've got Clan stuff, Blakist stuff, Hansa IS Standard, IS Intro, and even some armed IndyMechs, but in which units will that stuff be found? It seems fair to assume the front-line Galaxies will be mostly Clan with a smattering of higher-level IS, but where would the rest of it be found?
Hellion Keshik employs a nice mix of IS and Clan battlesuits. I'm not certain, but it might be the first time some of those suits have appeared in the same formation.
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Aside from some BA-centric merc units, you might be right.
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One thing I would recommend, changing the name of the position of ZARKhan.
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It's probably a contraction of Czar/Tzar/Tsar, so Zarkhan makes sense.
An Empire needs an Emperor.
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It also follows the established naming pattern of the Clans. ilKhan, saKhan, ovKhan, reKhan...
"Zar" is also how you spell the word in German. So it is not completely made up. ;)
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Yeah, but I am sure there are other words for emperor you could use as a base rather than czar.
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And emperor in German is Kaiser.
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Quibbling over already published word choice is rarely a fruitful endeavor
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It was chosen because of the Russian origins of Kerensky about a year ago.
And since I have my suspicions where this is coming from, I want to remind everyone of Rule 4.
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I always assumed it to be a veiled Power Rangers reference. ;)
Also, is it just me, or is anyone else really disappointed that of the three factions in Battletech to ever name themselves an Empire, only the least popular one ever named its ruler an Emperor?
(At least I'm assuming the Amaris Empire is less popular than the Wolf Empire, but I'll admit I've done no research.)
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I always assumed it to be a veiled Power Rangers reference. ;)
Hehe, no. We are talking about the Scorpions here. So giving a respectful nod towards the Great Father with their new ruling title seemed the perfect way to handle it. And given that actually is how you spell it in German, I didn't even think twice about the spelling when it came up.
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Hypothetical Question: A Seeker is following his vision to the periphery, what mech would that Seeker take to pass for an Inner Sphere mechwarrior? Would he even bother hiding?
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When I was thinking up the names for the post, I really liked arKhan, but the Lyran Commonwealth already has Archon. So I modified it a bit to zarKhan. Which I think sounds damn cool anyway.
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Any particular reason it had to be a **Khan of some sort, or was that handed down from above?
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Any particular reason it had to be a **Khan of some sort, or was that handed down from above?
I was wondering that too.
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Something else that just popped into my head: FM:WC says that the Cloud Cobra Cloisters have spread to other Clans. Wouldn't this be another interesting wrinkle to throw into the Empire's cultural mix.
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Hypothetical Question: A Seeker is following his vision to the periphery, what mech would that Seeker take to pass for an Inner Sphere mechwarrior? Would he even bother hiding?
I would take a wolverine II. Similar enough to a wolvie to pass up as a modified one, and still good mech with plenty of speed and potential in case things go south. This or a PHX. I prefer designs that allow tou to retreat if facing strong opposition above designs that will only mean that you die gloriously but die anyway
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I would take a wolverine II. Similar enough to a wolvie to pass up as a modified one, and still good mech with plenty of speed and potential in case things go south. This or a PHX. I prefer designs that allow tou to retreat if facing strong opposition above designs that will only mean that you die gloriously but die anyway
Doubt they would have access to the Wolverine II, Wolverine -7D appears on the RAT though, and the Phoenix Hawk would be available.
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Would they use a Wolverine though? The Mech seems to have become persona non grate in clan space.
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Any particular reason it had to be a **Khan of some sort, or was that handed down from above?
All Clan leaders are Khans or some stripe or other. It would be strange to change that. It follows the example of the Sea Foxes and their ovKhans.
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Something else that just popped into my head: FM:WC says that the Cloud Cobra Cloisters have spread to other Clans. Wouldn't this be another interesting wrinkle to throw into the Empire's cultural mix.
If any of that had infiltrated Clan Goliath Scorpion, it would most likely have been purged with extreme prejudice, given that the Cobras are the reason the Scorpions had to flee the Homeworlds.
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I always assumed it to be a veiled Power Rangers reference. ;)
funny, my first thought is that he'd be sending robeasts to attack voltron every week. since as the leader of the scoprion empire the full title would effectively be "emperor zarkhan"
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Hypothetical Question: A Seeker is following his vision to the periphery, what mech would that Seeker take to pass for an Inner Sphere mechwarrior? Would he even bother hiding?
Seeker Alex LeClair
Well as I am currently looking at the samething in the 3050/60 era , here what I have come up with
THG-11E Reich (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thug#Custom_Variants) thanks to TT for pointing it out.. canon legal custom mech.. if there 1 there could be more.. :thumbsup:
Trojan Dropship = Esel Sniker
Yeomen Isabella of house Suvorov as the Capt
Sutler Harold (lead Merchant)
Sage Nikola (lead Scientist)
Harbinger Kristin (chief chronicler and artisan)
Wyvern WVE-5Nsl - Yeomen Roger
along with
2 Puma Tanks for security
2 Badger C's
a Rotunda for "discrete" looking at things.
I mean no one would look at a 20 ton car funny... plus so u can play Spy Hunter... 8)
Mobile HQ for Dig site command unit
Mech Recovery Vehicle
Engineering Vehicle
with two Points of Infantry,
1 Foot-Clan Space Marines
1 Elemental BA
Yeomen Ernest of House Ben-Shimon as the pilot of the Royal Sabre SB-27b modified with a Recon Camera for Medium Laser and .5ton of fuel to provide the dropship with "limited" protection and some airmobile recon ability.
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that thug upgrade is simple enough that i could see it being repeated by others. its not too far off from some of the other C refits the clans have done.
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And emperor in German is Kaiser.
kaiser and tsar/czar both come from "Caesar" anyways, does it matter?
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It was chosen because of the Russian origins of Kerensky about a year ago.
And since I have my suspicions where this is coming from, I want to remind everyone of Rule 4.
whats rule 4?
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whats rule 4?
the forum rules?
4. No politics or religion
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Well, my Seeker Escorpion Cloister will be celebrating the ritual that is known as The Trial of the Lupus this Sunday... ;D
It's a hare raising good time with much hunting and seeking of colored plastic fowl ovum clutches. Some even contain edibles, others small vineer. While not a rede per say, many ristars will be participating this years nathaculor.
Truetanker
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I know what every individual word in that post means, but I still have no idea what on/off Earth you just said... ???
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I know what every individual word in that post means, but I still have no idea what on/off Earth you just said... ???
the forum rules?
4. No politics or religion
So what's happening this Sunday... is my answer.
TT
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You are allowed to mention that Easter Sunday is this weekend. At this point it's as much a secular holiday as a religious one. Just like how nobody's gotten a warning for wishing the forum community a merry Christmas.
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Yeah, but Trial of Lepus (Lupus is wolf.) has an amusing ring to it.
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Question about Seeker Clusters: other than their obligatory one or more Supernova Trinaries, do they use any non-'Mech forces? ASFs. vehicles. etc?
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It might be a bit early to speculate on this, but I wonder how many of the Clan and Inner Sphere 'Mechs to be featured in the forthcoming Alpha Strike box set (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/general-discussion/alpha-strike-boxed-set-discussion/) would have been present during the Hanseatic Crusade.
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Well know that I have some downtime since my 11:00 appointment got canceled until June 15th
Based on the Escorpion Imperion and the General Dark Age Periphery MULs, everything but the Fire Moth (Dasher) and the Wraith from the Alpha Strike Box wiyld be available. The Hanseatic Leauge doesn't manufacture the Archer, the Blackjack, or the Warhammer, but they're all common mechs (in various forms) for the Periphery by 3140. You'd end up with the the following (if you're using the general Periphery MUL for the Hanseatic League plus the Crusade RATs, and the suggestion for the HL to not use any variants past 3067)
Escorpion Imperio
Atlas C
Atlas II 7DH
Archer 2R
Blackjack BJ 1
Locust C
Locust 1V
Nova (Black Hawk)
Phoenix Hawk C
Phoenix Hawk PXH 1
Pouncer
Stinger 3G
Timber Wolf (Mad Cat)
Warhammer 6R
Warhammer C 3
Warhawk (Masakari)
Hanseatic Leauge
Atlas AS7-D
Atlas AS7-K
Atlas AS7-S
Atlas AS7-S2
Atlas AS7-S3
Archer 2R
Archer 4M
Archer 5W
Archer 6W
Blackjack BJ 3
Locust 1V
Locust 3V
Locust 3D
Locust 3S
Phoenix Hawk PXH 1
Phoenix Hawk PXH 3D
Phoenix Hawk PXH 3S
Stinger 3G
Stinger 3R
Warhammer 6R
Warhammer 7M
The Fire Moth could be replaced by the following for the Escorpion Imperio
Pirahna
Snox Fox Omni
Wasp 1A
The Wraith could be replaced by the following
Escorpion Imperio
Vapor Eagle (Goshawk)
Griffin 1N
Lightray 4Y
Naja Standard (Upgraded Clan Kintaro)
Naja KTO-19b EC (Early Clan tech version of the Kintaro)
Ryoken (Stormcrow)
Shadow Hawk C
Sun Bear (doubtful, since it's a unique)
Wolverine 6R
Hanseatic Leauge
Centurion 11B
Centurion 11J
Cronus 3M
Dervish 6M
Griffin 1N
Lineholder KW LH 2
Lineholder KW LH 3
Marshal 2L
Marshal X1
Shadow Hawk 2H
Shadow Hawk 5M
Surtur
Wolverine 6R
Wolverine 7D.
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They might not be on the MUL, but you could easily make a case for a very small number of Wraiths to exist in the Scorpion military, either being found in very small numbers in the Cache, or from Blakist refugees making their way to
Argentinathe Hansa.
At least, that's the excuse I'm clinging to, to keep a Legacy in my forces. :)
Similarly, if you really want a Dasher, say it came from one of the feral Hellions picked up over the years. :thumbsup:
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The Hanseatic Leauge doesn't manufacture the Archer, the Blackjack, or the Warhammer
Where is this stated?
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It's based on the production lines mentioned in Objective Periphery: Bordello Military Goods pg 31, and the Hanseatic Leauge planet descriptions on the Braunschweig and Falsterbro factories on pg 4 and 5 of Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade. The Archer, Blackjack and Warhammer aren't mentioned as units that are made by any of those companies.
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Thank you for the detailed reply.
Given the presence of various mercenary companies in Hansa space by the onset of the Crusade, plus various merc and/or pirate groups fleeing the Inner Sphere and near Periphery in this era (as noted in post-Crusade Shrapnel fiction), perhaps these might account for an occasional arrival of a Wraith into the Hanseatic League at some point prior to 3140?
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The list of products in the OTP was not exhaustive. It lists some of what they build, not all of what they build. "Products include" does not mean that every product is listed... :)
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Got it. Yup a Wraith or several could easily arrive in Hanseatic League Space, even via purchase as a conversation piece. Also, if you want an interesting look at differing design philosophies for RATs across the years, check out Field Manual Periphery's RAT for the Hanseatic Leauge by FASA and then FMU's RAT by FanPro. FASA made refitted designs far more available then later caretakers by the 3060s. The HL even has Charger 3Ks by 3064...
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Yep. I chose language that would allow us to add additional chassis as needed for whatever reason later. (Even the Surtur is not listed in the Braunschweig planet writeup, for example.) And Antwerp hasn't been updated since I wrote the Objectives, so the factory output there could be radically different. (This is why I omitted it from the planetary descriptions and did not set any of the campaign there: trying to leave freedom for myself or other writers later. It also gave me the chance to describe more of the planets and reduce the retread space.)
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Makes perfect sense when you put it like that, and no doubt those who come later will thank you for it.
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https://ironwindmetals.com/index.php/categories/cat-battletech/cat-bt-nr/product/battletech-bt-472
Is it just me, or is this just about the perfect base mini to kitbash a Surtur from?
Or this?
https://ironwindmetals.com/index.php/product-listing/product/battletech-ar20-445/category_pathway-2
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The first one is more apt, given the tonnage.
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Do they make a Griffin 2N model? You might be abke to take the SRMs off of it and mount them on a Wolverine's shoulders? Or are the Surtur's SRMs supposed to be chest mounted?
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True confession time: in my own head canon, there are a lot more C variants in the Empire’s MUL than are actually there.
Im always curious about the process of force conversion over time and what gets prioritized.
Aside from the cool stuff like Star Pythons and Star Crusaders. ;)
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They what, broke down a cache or two and found some WoB stash... Then they went on a leisure cruise and instead took a three year tour negotiating for property rights then said the hell with it, your all clan?
Did I sum it up correctly?
The point is they have a barely functional, it works why screw with it, manufacturing process. By using stop gap mechs and give the population a sense of protection, they have created a buffer zone that up to now, haven't been able to pull out their cache of mechs. Everything had been in cold storage and only pulled out if need be. With a refit site only certain things can be fitted, now that they have actual factories they can finish the refurbishment.
The next century is going to be fun...
TT
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First section yes, second section no.
All indications are that the Scorpions have a fully developed industrial base both in their recently conquered Hansa worlds AND in the former Nueva Castille territories, and in the latter case have had it for quite some time.
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They are recently as of 3090 started to build up the, then new by 3140, tech.
I understand it took them almost twenty years of absorbing every nook and cranny to proclaim the area safe...
Before revamping the current, then , 3110 ) lines... Currently it's 3152 or so...
Which means in layman's turn, they have been making as of "10, forty two years of upgrades from what? Six factories and a dozen each refit locations? The few faction factories need to be updated to produce bearable clan tech without a complete overhaul costing unknown amounts material and cash as well as manpower.
Think I'm safe...
TT
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The few faction factories need to be updated to produce bearable clan tech without a complete overhaul costing unknown amounts material and cash as well as manpower.
Can you give a source saying this hasn't already been done?
Their ability to produce multiple OmniMech and BattleMech chassis implies it has.
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Building form Cache is different than building fresh. Tonnage is Tonnage.
BUT as you may know, the few factories that they have are ancient models.
The few examples are far and few.
But, the various workshops produce a few products, here and there.
No need to put a number or name to everything.
TT
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This is not as convoluted as some of these hypotheses suggest. Upgrade the existing ground-based facilities immediately, supplemented by the Hephaestus station, while also building new factories (as when they moved the capital). When they conquered the League, they added two modern factories (one which had been unknown to them before they invaded the world) which would lend themselves to upgrading (as seen with the relatively rapid construction of the Awesome C). The huge factory on Antwerp would be the biggest obstacle to upgrading, simply because of its size.
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the Scorpions may have had to update their original Castile and Ummayid techbase up from a succession wars grade one, but they had over half of a century to do it. the much mor disorganized and more economically muddled IS managed to overhaul some of their industry to produce clantech after about the same amount of time, and they had to figure out how clantech worked first, without having access to the plans, formulas, and specs. compare that to the Dragoons, which having the data was able to set up production in less than 2 decades starting with succession war industrial techbase and having to do all the work in secret. so the scorpions gettign a clantech production infrastructure in place over 60 years is not much of a stretch.
and do remember that the WoB had been helping to update the factories of the Hanseatic League during the jihad, and got at least a couple up to spec to produce advanced WOB mechs like the Grand Crusader and Nexus. this is one of the reasons why the Scorpions were able to convert those to clan tech and make them the core of their Touman as the Star Crusader and the Star Python. so the refit of their new conquests is going to take a lot less time.
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That's not quite correct. The League was not building advanced WoB 'Mechs. Any help the Blakists gave was updating the League's older stuff closer to parity with post-Clan Invasion IS technology. Battlesuits are a different story, of course; this is because the League had zero battlesuit manufacturing and so there was no need to upgrade from an older tech base.
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Look at the Star Python. There were no production lines. They discovered corrupted blueprints for the Nexus, restored them, then upgraded them and then went to overhaul a factory to be able to actually build the Star Python.
It's a process that takes some time. But they are doing it.
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Exactly. Consider how long it took the League to field their first domestic 'Mech, the Surtur. It was new when the Crusade broke out. There's nothing to indicate that the League ever built Grand Crusaders or Nexuses, much less any of the Celestial OmniMechs or Jihad-era Blakist units.
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Do you think the Hansa ever build something akin to Warships or perhaps had the facilities to service them? From the FM 3067 which has a lot of Blakist tones in it it sounded like as if the Blakists had the Hansa build at least parts for their Erinyes project which was in essence refitting a Yard ship into a planet killer. It would make sense as the Hansa was a mercantile nation which requires yards to at least service Jumpships as well as Dropships
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I don't know why they would do that since Sol has plenty of yards already. The Hands don't have anything close to Warship Yards, they could perhaps make primitive jumpships and service their own
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I don't know why they would do that since Sol has plenty of yards already. The Hands don't have anything close to Warship Yards, they could perhaps make primitive jumpships and service their own
For one complete secrecy. Who of the Great Houses has actually secret services in the Deep Periphery? And I might have to check this again but it defintely sounded as if the Hansa were building parts for the Blakists maybe in exchange for technology or HPG services
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For one complete secrecy. Who of the Great Houses has actually secret services in the Deep Periphery? And I might have to check this again but it definitely sounded as if the Hansa were building parts for the Blakists maybe in exchange for technology or HPG services
The Solar System was a complete island under Blakist control, no one came in or out without their permission and they controlled all jumpship and HPG traffic. Additionally there were several other secret naval bases closer by at Ross or Luyten that could have done the work. No need to go out to the deep periphery particularly to untrusted sources that regularly traded between other states (and possibly even the Clans)
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I don't know why they would do that since Sol has plenty of yards already.
The Hands original mission was to wipe out humanity within the confines of Clan Space. It would make sense that they'd want manufacturing capabilities closer to the Kerensky cluster in order to simplify logistics.
We know, for example, that the Word of Blake did try to take over the Coreward Confederacy (and it's functioning JumpShip maintenance facilities - they hoped they could be restored into a proper shipyard). This effort was dropped due to the Jihad diverting their attention.
I don't think the Word would have tried to move production capabilities to a state they didn't control though, and no evidence that I know of suggests that they'd managed to take of the League's government.
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The Hands original mission was to wipe out humanity within the confines of Clan Space. It would make sense that they'd want manufacturing capabilities closer to the Kerensky cluster in order to simplify logistics.
Logistics are a lot simpler when you have the willingness to use Weapons of Mass Destruction for genocide and thus no incentive to fight on the ground except as clean up crews to ensure no one survives to tell the tale. I doubt the Shadow Divisions were meant to return as it would be far easier to explain away the Homeworlds destruction as the Clans killing themselves or their colonies failing, heck the Wars of Reaving almost did the same at roughly the same time. COMSTAR and the Word of Blake are far more pragmatic and don't need to do things for the bragging rights if they don't want to.
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The thing is though that the Erinyes was sighted around the Periphery. There was a mention in one of the Jihad books that a small Mercenary unit witnessed the Erinyes in action somewhere around the Neuva Castille worlds. That's why I assume that this thing was either modified or got it's finishing touch in the Hansa worlds
But after reading hte small note in the FM 3067 (page 200) I think the Hansa simply provided tech. Here is the quote "The League has proven a willing vendor, able to complete the systems we ordered within the alotted time frame, though their leaders remain oblivious to our goals save those we have allowed them to uncover. Their asteroid mining technologies in particular - combined with testing at Mundo Nublar (travel across such distances of uncharted space is draining but the results have been worth the expense) - stand to play a key role in Erinyes." So yes I think I misunderstood: the Hansa build systems the Blakists asked for but the Erinyes seems to have been assembled or rather being modified at Mundo Nublar which was at Odessa if i remember correctly.
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Mundo Nublar is Coreward Deep Periphery. In any case, the Blakists have at least one Newgrange for deep-space mobile servicing of their fleet
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Do you think the Hansa ever build something akin to Warships or perhaps had the facilities to service them? From the FM 3067 which has a lot of Blakist tones in it it sounded like as if the Blakists had the Hansa build at least parts for their Erinyes project which was in essence refitting a Yard ship into a planet killer. It would make sense as the Hansa was a mercantile nation which requires yards to at least service Jumpships as well as Dropships
No. They never had the ability to construct JumpShips, let alone WarShips. They don't even have a means to repair JumpShips. Their means of increasing their JumpShip fleet was via purchasing vessels captured by pirates (I mentioned this in one of the PDFs covering the region). One goes bad, they replace it with one captured from some poor sap. One might envision that the Scorpions' first effort to obtain an enclave in the Chainelane Isle could lead to some attempt to gain control of or access to the shipyard at Brekke, though... :)
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Mundo Nublar is Coreward Deep Periphery. In any case, the Blakists have at least one Newgrange for deep-space mobile servicing of their fleet
Whoops you are right. Odessa had the Ruins of Gabriel
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Funny thing, I would thought it be interesting if the Legacy Assault 'Mech's forerunner, the Rising Star would ended up back in production as a C variant, given how the Nexus based on Jackrabbit blue prints would ended up Clan service. The name of the 'Mech certain would fit the Clan culture, it was Star League 'Mech before it was Blakist revamp it into one of its own designs.
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Only if it gets renamed the Ristar. :)
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There was something which I was minded of, in the midst of posting a few Scorpion-related notes over in the CSO feedback thread:
By the onset of the Hanseatic Crusade, there were three Keshiks in the Scorpion touman: Scorpion Keshik, Hellion Keshik, and Seeker Keshik. With a few exceptions, these protect the Khan, saKhan, and Loremaster respectively.
With the emergence of the office of zarKhan in the IlClan Era, would there be a fourth Keshik created to act as their bodyguard? And if so, from which Galaxy? Or would the zarKhan be formally removed from the touman proper, instead serving as a "civilian" leader - and thus require some alternate means of protection?
To look at the Dark Age Era Rasalhague Dominion as a point of comparison: Prince Hjalmer Miraborg (named in Era Report: 3145) resigned from the military in order to pursue a political career; thus, he is not listed anywhere on the Ghost Bear touman in Field Manual: 3145. However, so far as I can tell, FM:3145 does not list a Keshik as being assigned to his protection. Presumably the Dominion has some form of security force set up to protect the Prince, though I'm not sure if this is formally stated anywhere. (Perhaps we'll see such a thing in Dominions Divided.)
Since the zarKhan appears to be at least somewhat akin to the Prince of the Rasalhague Dominion, would the same apply here also?
For that matter, who (if anyone) serves to protect the reKhans governing the various planets of the Empire?
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Protection for such civilians would fall under the auspices of whichever portion of the touman is assigned to the world they're on. I don't envision keshiks being formed for any of these persons. (I think I was pushing it to create one for the Seekers.)
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Protection for such civilians would fall under the auspices of whichever portion of the touman is assigned to the world they're on. I don't envision keshiks being formed for any of these persons. (I think I was pushing it to create one for the Seekers.)
If the OvKhan is still part of the touman they may have a Star “bodyguard” unit composed of elementals or infantry veterans.
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I am not speaking to what the Sea Foxes might do for their leaders. The Scorpions do not have any ovKhans.
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Are OvKhan title considered to be a honorary title among other Clans or special tasks? I've seen the title thrown around here and there.
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I am not speaking to what the Sea Foxes might do for their leaders. The Scorpions do not have any ovKhans.
Protection for such civilians would fall under the auspices of whichever portion of the touman is assigned to the world they're on. I don't envision keshiks being formed for any of these persons. (I think I was pushing it to create one for the Seekers.)
I am not speaking to what the Sea Foxes might do for their leaders. The Scorpions do not have any ovKhans.
My bad I was thinking of zarKhans the planetary military leaders of the Scorpion Empire. Are they technically in command of a Cluster or does each planet have greater defences?
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Are OvKhan title considered to be a honorary title among other Clans or special tasks? I've seen the title thrown around here and there.
ovKhan is a Sea Fox rank of those that command one of their Aimags, below the saKhan
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My bad I was thinking of zarKhans the planetary military leaders of the Scorpion Empire. Are they technically in command of a Cluster or does each planet have greater defences?
The position you are describing is reKhan, and they are not military positions. They fall outside the military command structure. The position of zarKhan was created later, and follows that same philosophy. They are civilian administrators, as the Clan found it difficult to maintain their military readiness while also dealing with the day-to-day needs of their growing civilian population. The Khan still commands the touman. Think of the zarKhan as the president or prime minister, while the Khan is the highest military commander; they are expected to cooperate to ensure the safety and prosperity of the nation, but the Khan would be the ultimate authority when it comes to military matters. Thus, the zarKhan might request or suggest a particular military action, but the Khan could ignore that in favor of something completely different. This, of course, might lead to friction, which is what one might expect. None of the reKhans or the zarKhan are considered to be in command of any military component of the touman, though of course it's reasonable to predict that the local police paramilitary or even a PGC might be seconded to these individuals for a specified time (such as disaster relief, or if the local Galaxy Commander is called away and thus delegates the oversight to the civilian leadership. Again, making warriors subordinate to a civilian could lead to friction, especially in the short term. As the political structure matures, these growing pains should be accommodated and a smoothly running system results. Or bloody revolts and repressions could return. That's part of the fun of BT.
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Protection for such civilians would fall under the auspices of whichever portion of the touman is assigned to the world they're on. I don't envision keshiks being formed for any of these persons. (I think I was pushing it to create one for the Seekers.)
Don't some clans use Keshiks as command units for all or most Galaxies?
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Perhaps, but the Scorpions didn't.
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Don't some clans use Keshiks as command units for all or most Galaxies?
as i recall, one did, but they only had a handful of galaxies to start with, and they didn't have any more keshiks than normal.
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You might also keep in mind that Emmy Line actually stated in Moving Forward that she would no longer be in command of her Galaxy.
She has abdicated any command position. Now, might she get bodyguards? Possible. But she would not be their commanding officer. Just like the US President is not in charge of the secret service agents who protect them. It might actually be the other way around. They can and will get the President out of a dangerous situation, whether the President likes it or not.
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Don't some clans use Keshiks as command units for all or most Galaxies?
as i recall, one did, but they only had a handful of galaxies to start with, and they didn't have any more keshiks than normal.
that would be Clan Wolf...they have a Keshik for every Galaxy; still do as of FM3145--that's 14 Keshiks in 3145, albeit they are Trinary sized, not Clusters
I don't believe it's ever been stated why they have a Keshik for every Galaxy (maybe in the Wolf Clan Sourcebook?)
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Don't some clans use Keshiks as command units for all or most Galaxies?
As mentioned, the Wolves have Keshiks leading most/all of their Galaxies, and the Jaguars called the command units of front-line Galaxies Keshiks as well (Jaguar Spirit, Swath, Skyrider, and Dark Prowlers) in addition to the Khans' command units.
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So we know what happened to Rudolph Schmidt. Did the rest of his Petraries survive the last battle of the Crusade and join up with the Empire, or was he the only one?
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Their fates have not been elucidated.
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As noted over in this thread (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/general-discussion/new-camospecs-online-site/msg1845848/#msg1845848), there is as yet no unit logo or colour scheme for Eta Galaxy, nor for Seeker Galaxy's new Keshik.
While the question of colour schemes might be under CSO's remit, I was advised that they do not typically go so far as to work up new faction logos.
So, are there any experts here who might have ideas as to what, if any, new logos could be drawn up for either of these two units?
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Pretty sure I mentioned somewhere (a RecGuide entry, maybe?) that Eta Galaxy has the Greek letter eta on their 'Mechs. H for Hansa, yo. ;) Seeker Keshik probably uses the Galaxy insignia.
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Doc Swift: I feel like I might've said before, but I appreciate how willing you are to hang around here and provide further details/trivia on the lovely little faction you've helped flesh out. After the WoR and Jihad books I was skeptical about their long-term prospects, but the Scorpion Empire's really been built up into something fun to watch with relatively few bumps in the road along the way.
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Sometimes when we write something, it's sort of like a fire-and-forget missile. With the Empire, I got to write the OTP, a TtS, two SOs, and some RecGuide entries. It's not terribly common to have so many opportunities to write the same faction in such a short time. I'm glad it's been mostly well-received, and I'm happy to answer whatever I can. Hopefully, I get to write more for them, and maybe my participation gets someone who might be on the fence to pull the trigger and check out the new stuff and they can ask their own questions. :)
So: Thanks! I appreciate it! I love this game and the fans and players. It wasn't that long ago I was on that side of the game as a fan and player. If I can help, I will.
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Apologies for quoting myself from a post in another thread (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/general-discussion/free-guilds-78223/msg1849564/#msg1849564):
Are there any Free Guilds in the Scorpion Empire?
If so, is there a degree of reciprocity between Free Guild and Clan interaction between the Empire and the Inner Sphere and near Periphery?
In other words: do the Free Guilds supporting Clan Sea Fox operations in the Chaine Cluster consider the recently-acquired Scorpion enclave there as "Clan", for the purposes of providing their services? Or, indeed, what of any Seekers passing through the Inner Sphere - do the Free Guilds consider them to be "Clan" also?
And in the other direction, should any Free Guilds exist in the Empire, would they offer reciprocal services to visiting Clan Sea Fox Aimags?
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Are there any Free Guilds in the Scorpion Empire?
Until something is published to that effect, no.
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Fair enough.
That still leaves the matter of the Free Guilds in support of the Council of Six Clans: so far as they are concerned, would the Scorpions in the Chaine Cluster (or on long-range Seeker missions in the Inner Sphere or near Periphery) be "Clan" enough for them to treat with?
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Same answer, I'm afraid.
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Oops. Messed that up. Will try again in the right thread :)
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Actually, here's a thought: might there be an introduction to the Free Guilds in BattleTech Universe?
If so, perhaps a line or two could be added there (and/or in the Scorpion Empire section of that book) addressing this topic, one way or another...
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Actually, here's a thought: might there be an introduction to the Free Guilds in BattleTech Universe?
If so, perhaps a line or two could be added there (and/or in the Scorpion Empire section of that book) addressing this topic, one way or another...
There mentioned in Empire Alone. I'm not liking how they went from free society living under the iron heel of Clans to mafia / dark caste of merchants. One or two being bad doobies, but not entire group.
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Anyone know what the platoon sizes for non-foot Hansa infantry are? Would it be easiest to just use Taurian sizes, since they're the only other faction to use 30-trooper foot platoons?
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See p. 23, OTP: Hanseatic Crusade.
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Is that for ALL infantry types, not just foot troops?
I'm just seeking clarification here, because if this is the case they would be the only faction in the entire Battletech timeline to use the same count across all motive types.
(Except maybe the Society. I'm not 100% on them.)
In either case, someone should submit errata for Tech Manual, because p. 147 of that book currently shows the Hanseatic League as using the same 28/28/21/20/24/28 scheme as most IS and Major Periphery nations.
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Is the Tech Manual information referring to ca. 3140?
Note that formations in OTP: Hanseatic Crusade include non-foot unarmored infantry, and only one platoon size is listed for standard infantry.
they would be the only faction in the entire Battletech timeline to use the same count across all motive types.
Why would uniqueness be cause for alarm?
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It's not cause for alarm. As I said, I was just seeking clarification on the matter.
It's probably a good thing the vast majority of the infantry used by the Scorpions during the Crusade were armored. Against conventional infantry, Hansa mechinf formations would be NASTY.
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(From me, the answer will always be the simplest. If I listed only one size, then that's the size! Also, I find it tiresome how random and arbitrary some things are, such as infantry platoon size, by type. Isn't it simple if they're all the same? No need to look up anything! But those forces only apply for that era, not necessarily earlier eras.) :)
(However, I might note that while/because Rudolf was reorganizing the Hansa military, they might not still use every infantry type that one could imagine. He was in the process of replacing unarmored infantry with battlesuits as much as possible when the Crusade began. The only ones they use for certain are those noted in the descriptions of OTP: Hanseatic Crusade.)
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Jump platoons that are 50% more powerful than anything this side of Detroit are also gonna be fun, especially since a full company of them fits perfectly in the K1 I'm kitbashing. I don't have many big and slow assault mechs in my Scorpion collection since I prefer Beta/Hellion Galaxy, but I'll have to remember that those I do have need to operate with an escort of some kind.
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The reorg allowed them to bulk up the regular infantry, as more battlesuit troops joined the ranks. So a jump infantry regiment should be pretty respectable.
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Oh, definitely not going that big. My plan is to build a representative force of RDF-3, consisting of a company each of mechs and vees and two companies each of foot and jump troops.
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I just learned that the MUL lists the Scorpions as using the Korvin. The imperial touman is truly the gift that keeps on giving.
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Oh, that is AWESOME.
I'm thinking a garrison Star for a newly established colony settlement. Either that, or a post in a rural area of pine of the core Castillian worlds, basically an area that's about as safe and unimportant as it gets, but still requires some kind of Scorpion presence.
Hmmm... How about one Araña, two Points of Korvins, and two Points of hover mechinf, broken down into squads? The whole formation is surprisingly fast for a backwoods militia post(and well suited for Scorpion-style pincer tactics), eight squads of fast troops lets you spread your pickets across a large area, and the armored core of your force has respectable firepower at all ranges, all for less than 5,000 BV.
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Sounds like a great militia Force :thumbsup:
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Officially checking in with the Scorps ! >:D :thumbsup:
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Welcome to the Empire!
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cleaned those caches all the way to the back stalls when they fled clan space
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Welcome to the Empire!
Thank you, as emissary of Clan Jade Falcon, I foster good relations, I commend you on your victories, militarily, economically, and politically 8)
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Thank you. Hopefully the Scorpions will build on its current progress. The Empire congratulates Clan Jade Falcon's transformation to become personal guards of the First Lord, a very prestigious status.
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Thank you, as emissary of Clan Jade Falcon, I foster good relations, I commend you on your victories, militarily, economically, and politically 8)
Which faction of the Falcons. No offence but right now the Falcons are more divided than the Inner Sphere.
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He forgot Socially...
::)
TT
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He forgot Socially...
::)
TT
no he didn't, the Falcons do not tolerate Societies.
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Which faction of the Falcons. No offence but right now the Falcons are more divided than the Inner Sphere.
I come of at the behest of Khans Stephanie and Jiyi Chistu ;) Do note it does take a while to get here, alot can happen in 3 years 8)
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I come of at the behest of Khans Stephanie and Jiyi Chistu ;) Do note it does take a while to get here, alot can happen in 3 years 8)
Either way that is one detour. Either you came from Terra went to Galactic North (Clan OZ) the Galactic East in the Deep Periphery or Galactic North then Terra then Deep Periphery. I hope they didn’t make pay your own way and promise reimbursement.
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Either way that is one detour. Either you came from Terra went to Galactic North (Clan OZ) the Galactic East in the Deep Periphery or Galactic North then Terra then Deep Periphery. I hope they didn’t make pay your own way and promise reimbursement.
You know how it is, detached from the Turkina Keshik on Terra, gifted Jiyi a Cluster of warriors for his ample mechs numbers, retook some worlds in between, convinced Marena to play nice, as the Horses are a menace, visited the new flourishing garrison Trinary on A Place, then continued further north, found a few Turkina Ascendancy warriors holding on to hope, cleaned up Von Strang, even tested them out on a few marooned Vipers and Hellions in North Perhipery, as I headed your way, might have stopped on the way for some Pirate clean up target practice too. I bring shiny Star League toys :thumbsup:
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Sometimes when we write something, it's sort of like a fire-and-forget missile. With the Empire, I got to write the OTP, a TtS, two SOs, and some RecGuide entries. It's not terribly common to have so many opportunities to write the same faction in such a short time. I'm glad it's been mostly well-received, and I'm happy to answer whatever I can. Hopefully, I get to write more for them, and maybe my participation gets someone who might be on the fence to pull the trigger and check out the new stuff and they can ask their own questions. :)
So: Thanks! I appreciate it! I love this game and the fans and players. It wasn't that long ago I was on that side of the game as a fan and player. If I can help, I will.
On this note, I was wondering if I could get some clarification from you on something.
Touring the Stars: Valencia states that the Escorpion Imperio established their capital on Valencia. But "Moving Forward" in Shrapnel states that the capital of the Scorpion Empire is now on Braunschweig in the former Hanseatic League.
Did they move their capital to Braunschweig post-Hanseatic Crusade? If so, why there?
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It's a more central location, given the stellar geography of the two united territories.
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@Doc...
Got some e'splaining to do there Doc... :beatdown: :beatdown: :beatdown:
TT
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It's a more central location, given the stellar geography of the two united territories.
Braunschweig has a LOT to recommend it, honestly, even beyond geography(which is no small thing).
It's been the capital of a large interstellar polity and economic powerhouse for centuries, meaning lots of existing infrastructure and trained bureaucrats for that job, even after the damage of the Merchant Council's suicide. On top of that, making that city a priority for rebuilding brings plenty of opportunities for goodwill projects, as well as immediate jobs for the masses to prevent(or at least mitigate) a postwar economic crash. Finally, the Scorpions have an opportunity to custom-build their new capital exactly the way they want it
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You might be confusing Braunschweig for Bremen.
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Moving the capital to the former Hansa makes sense. It's the more populous part of the Empire, the transformation of the former castillean worlds to a new clan-inspired society is well under way and the local government structure established.
Restructuring the hanseatic society is going to take time and may require close oversight by the warrior caste. Having the capital close by should help with integration.
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I get the reasoning behind it, I just... don't like it. Makes me feel like I wasted a few bucks on the Valencia PDF now because all of that wonderful build-up fluff just doesn't matter anymore.
Then again, I'm not a fan of the name change, either. "Scorpion Empire" is just so generic compared to "Escorpión Imperio". RIP.
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I was no fan of the old name, but I had a different new name when I wrote the OTP.
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Valencia will still be an important part of the Empire, even with the Scorps moving the capital. I'm just waiting for Zeus, Banshee (S or E), Surtur and Crockett C or II C variants to appear. It only took 500 years for the Awesome, so I'm sure someone will build them. Also, who's piloting the Emperor-6A (Nerran) now? Wouldn't Nerran be long dead?
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I was no fan of the old name, but I had a different new name when I wrote the OTP.
What was it?
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:-X
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I was no fan of the old name, but I had a different new name when I wrote the OTP.
Clan Nine from Outer Space ? ;)
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:-X
why?
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It could be useful in the future.
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Clan Nine from Outer Space ? ;)
That's the Ice Hellions.
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Scorpion Homeworlds — when you just need to resolve a loose end before getting on with better things. ;)
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I'm curious to know if the Imperial military uniforms look any different from those we saw and read about in Field Manual: Warden Clans. The Scorpions have undergone more than one transformation since the Wars of Reaving, and I'm curious to know if the Castilians, Umayyads or Hansa have had any influence on their military attire.
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If any Clan would be immune to such influences, it would be the one where the Seekers came to be. They're all about preserving their history, which for the warriors would include the uniforms. If Eta Galaxy, for example, tried to use a Hansa color scheme for their personnel uniforms, they'd be singling themselves out as different. That wouldn't go over well. Maybe in the paramilitary police, but not for the actual warriors. They'd be passing their Trial of Position to be Scorpions, not something halfway.
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Well, that’s disappointing, but not unexpected.
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Hey anyone have any thoughts on what the Empire has or should have in its in collection of historic objects? I thing they have wrecks of the society mechs , the dissembled Preta the Hansa had.
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Don't they have the head of Kerensky's Orion? There was a story that a few seekers visited Solaris VII and not only took this piece but also the full inventory of a museum. I would also assume they have some memoribilia from the 71st Light horse and also very old SLDF relics from the time the real SLDF in exile settled the Pentagon.
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amaris' personal bidet
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I'm still disappointed it was only the head of the Orion. The Steiner side of the FedCom had captured ENTIRE thing when Legion of Vega was defeated bying time to previous owner, Theodore Kurita escape off world.
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We got new info on the Araña Militiamech on the new TRO: DA, bt not on the Reptar. :-\
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We got new info on the Araña Militiamech on the new TRO: DA, bt not on the Reptar. :-\
Yea :) and yea :-[
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I'm still disappointed it was only the head of the Orion. The Steiner side of the FedCom had captured ENTIRE thing when Legion of Vega was defeated bying time to previous owner, Theodore Kurita escape off world.
i suspect that the Fedsuns stripped the thing to maintain their own Orion's. remember it wasn't the head but rather just the cockpit of it that was recovered by the seekers. which suggests that the parts went far and wide. and given that the cockpit was probably one of the few remaining SLDF parts when Theodore was piloting it (it had been found stripped after all, then extensively refit before being given to theodore) that could be tracked.
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So, as I see it, Teddy's Orion was a Pimp my Mech? And they only wanted the cockpit? Technically, that's a classic Trial of Possession right there...
How do you hurt the enemy? Classics ToP their belongings, either Mech, to replenish the ones they destroyed, or Parts, so you can rebuild or both. But by taking the cockpit, it denies the enemy a Mech to use against next ToP.
Smart Scorpions...
TT
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no it was extensively refitted and rebuilt back into a 'stock' ON-1K. prior to be stripped of basically everything but the cockpit and frame to be dumped durign the exodus, it had been a ON1-K Kerensky, which had been a pimped out heavily customized ride for kerensky, getting rid of most of the Orion's normal weaponry (the LRM15 and AC10) for a snub-PPC, guass rifle, and the addition of artemisIV to the SRms, and which mounted ferrofibrous armor and CASE. basically the only thing of kerensky's ON-1K that was "stock" was the pair of medium lasers, the engine, and the frame. the discoverers were able to trace serial numbers and such to identify it as the remains of kerensky's mech, and Theodore's aunt had the remains sent to Kali Yama Weapons Industries in the FWL to be rebuilt into a normal succession wars ON-1K.
during the 4th succession wars, Theodore had to leave the mech behind as part of a ploy to disguise the fact he'd left the planet the Legion of Vega was defending, marfik, and seek reinforcements to relieve them and blunt a lyran invasion of the combine. as part of this ploy one of his unit commanders drove the machine posing as him. in the course of events, the Lyrans ambushed the Legion of Vega command team and crippled the Orion, only to discover the deception. the mech was not functional at that point, but certainly had been in repairable condition.
somewhere between that point and the clan invasion the cockpit from that mech made its way into a museum, which is where the scorpions found it. presumably because someone realized the historical value of the mech, and wanted to preserve part of it. my speculation is that the Lyran unit parted out the mech to repair its own ON-1K Orion's, and the cockpit was the only part left by the time the historical value was recognized.
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Outside sourcebook and era read outs etc...
Does the Scorpion Empire have any novel or short story time ?
Will it? I hope so
Got good stuff to work with, the Absorbtion of the (Homeworlds) ELH, and eventually going onto creating Blood Houses for them, the whole withdrawal from Clan Space, and eventually leading across to the formation of Scorpion Empire, also with ilClan Era, pirate cleanup on FWL edges, Solaris (?), some interaction with Terra (?)
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Outside sourcebook and era read outs etc...
Does the Scorpion Empire have any novel or short story time ?
Will it? I hope so
Got good stuff to work with, the Absorbtion of the (Homeworlds) ELH, and eventually going onto creating Blood Houses for them, the whole withdrawal from Clan Space, and eventually leading across to the formation of Scorpion Empire, also with ilClan Era, pirate cleanup on FWL edges, Solaris (?), some interaction with Terra (?)
Short Story, there's one in a recent Shrapnel with them in the IlKhan era. But there's not a lot out there yet.
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I wrote a story that would have tied in with the OTP. I think it's DOA.
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I wrote a story that would have tied in with the OTP. I think it's DOA.
Bummer
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I wrote a story that would have tied in with the OTP. I think it's DOA.
Wait what?
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Yes?
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It's an expression of incredulity, lol.
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Short Story, there's one in a recent Shrapnel with them in the IlKhan era. But there's not a lot out there yet.
Moving Forward in Shrapnel 6.
https://amzn.to/3SuVDLB
Awesome story. One of the best ever. Just amazing.
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what does OTP mean?
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Operational Turning Points. In this instance, Hanseatic Crusade.
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Operational Turning Points. In this instance, Hanseatic Crusade.
:facepalm: oh
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Well, i have been doing some datamaning related to my main Objectives 3150 Proyect. Here is a very very rough example of what the Scorpon Empire military industry looks like by 3150. Doc Swift can correct me if i made some glearing errors, or if there are some more info in future products.
Note: I assume that most of the Castillian/Ummayad facilities got retooled or shut down after the Clan Goliath Scorpion invasion.
ANTWERP
BORDELLO MILITARY GOODS, INC. (Now Imperial BattleMechs?): Locust ( IIC?), Phoenix Hawk (-1? / -3D/-3S?), Star Phyton (Nexus), Wasp (-1A?), Wolverine (-6R? -7D?) Battlemechs; Star Crusader (Grand Crusader), Warhawk Omnimechs; AC/2 Carrier, T-12 Tiger Medium Tank, Vedette Mediun Tank; Centurion ASF (-1D?), Vulcan ASF (-5N/-6N?); Manatee Dropship
ASTURIAS
SANCTUARY STATION(still active?): Korvin Refit (-3?)
QUIXOTE INDUSTRIES: Araña ARA-S-1, Reptar Militiamechs; Tolva, Cazador Battlemechs.
BRAUNSCHWEIG
Lüneburg Vehicle Corporation: Awesome (-8Q/-9Q/C?), Surtur SUR-T1, Thunderbolt -5S, Zeus -6S Battlemechs; Demolisher Heavy Tank
CASTILE
KING DUMOUNT DEFENSE FACILITY (still active?): Wasp, Stinger Battlemechs; Rifleman, Shadow Hawk Primitive Battlemechs; LRM Carrier; Medium Strike Conventional Fighter
ROYALS REFIT AND REPAIR STATION (still active?): BattleMech and aerospace fighter refits
FALSTERBO
HDF Manufacturing: Banshee (-3S/5S?), Urbanmech (-R60/-R63?) Battlemechs; Thrush (-7?) ASF; Inner Sphere Standard, Infiltrator, Purifier Battle Armor; Overlord Dropship
GATEWAY
Unknow Factory: Daedalus GTX2 and other Industrymechs; Star Phyton (Nexus), ¿Improved non-clan version of the original Nexus? Battletechs (¿3151?)
GÖTTINGEN
Unknow Factory: Epona Pursuit Tank
GRANADA
PRIDE OF GRANADA INDUSTRIES (still active?): Wasp, Stinger Battlemechs; Rifleman, Shadow Hawk Primitive Battlemechs
QUIXOTE INDUSTRIES: Araña ARA-S-1, Reptar Militiamechs; Tolva, Cazador Battlemechs.
ALHAMBRA REFIT STATION (still active?): Vulcan BattleMech refit
CALIPHATE AIRFIELD ALPHA: SRM Carrier; Stuka -K5 ASF
VALENCIA
Prosoma War Works: Hellion Omnimech
Now, i still have the mistery of where the Rhino Battlemech and Snow Fox Omnimech are made.
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That looks about right. I won't comment on anything that hasn't been stipulated in canon yet, so your unknowns will remain that way for now, I'm afraid. I will point out that CGS's Haphaestus-class station seems to be missing. Who knows what goodies they could be building there? :)
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Certainly not Protos. ::)
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Thankfully.
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Hard disagree there. Protos are fun and I'm never a fan of taking options off the board.
Thankfully, I can ignore canon and run the Scorpions how I like. :thumbsup:
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That looks about right. I won't comment on anything that hasn't been stipulated in canon yet, so your unknowns will remain that way for now, I'm afraid. I will point out that CGS's Haphaestus-class station seems to be missing. Who knows what goodies they could be building there? :)
Didnt included the Haphaestus Station, yes. As with the Shark/Raven mobile factories, these mobile instalations are kind of nebolous on what it can produce.
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Hard disagree there. Protos are fun and I'm never a fan of taking options off the board.
Thankfully, I can ignore canon and run the Scorpions how I like. :thumbsup:
Then why bring it up?
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Then why bring it up?
Because this is the Scorpion thread and I'm allowed to talk about all things Scorpion, even the stuff I dislike?
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Didnt included the Haphaestus Station, yes. As with the Shark/Raven mobile factories, these mobile instalations are kind of nebolous on what it can produce.
Gotcha.
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GATEWAY
Unknow Factory: Daedalus GTX2 and other Industrymechs; Star Phyton (Nexus), ¿Improved non-clan version of the original Nexus? Battletechs (¿3151?)
Pretty sure I gave a rather exact date for the Star Pythong production line to start working in the story ;)
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Pretty sure I gave a rather exact date for the Star Pythong production line to start working in the story ;)
Dont know if they were already answered, but i have a couple of questions about the Star Phyton, now that you mention dates.
The RG 23 states that the mech is produced in Braunschweig´s Imperial BattleMechs, and in Battle Story gaves a report of an encounter set in "early 3150". Maste Unit List set the mech´s intro date in 3150. Now, "Moving Foward", pag 182, paragraph 3, states that "The first full production models of the Star Python not built during the limited run on Hephaestus Station were due to be put into production next week" (the chapter is set in the 15th of February 3151, so 22th February?). This lead to the first question(s): Is the RG or the story wrong? Or the mobile Hephaestus station counts as "part" of Braunschweig´s Imperial BattleMechs? Or maybe something enterely diferent?
Next, in the next paragraph, it says "Emmy had championed putting the old Nexus chassisback into production. It had been an Inner Sphere ’Mech, but the basic model was easy to build and maintain. Alongside an improved version of the original model, the factory would also produce a version upgraded with Clan-tech weapons.". So, we can infer that the Gateway factory would be building the Star Phyton version, but what is the "improved version of the original model"? The NXS1-A is the basic made by Comstar (and later WoB), and i doubt the Scorpions would be using the C3i-carrying NXS1-B and NXS2-A. Maybe its refers to the NXS2-B? Its a posibility, but it sports Stealth Armor, wich is a technology that i dont know if the Scorpions have been exposed enough to.
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Neither is wrong. Something can be built and available without being in full production. Prototypes are often built for field testing on proving grounds. Limited production runs allow manufacturers to iron out problems, fix bugs, that sort of thing. Imperial could build a Star or Trinary of Star Pythons for testing, making it available months or years before a full production run. Prototyping would involve building different variants to determine which is the preferred final, production model.
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Neither is wrong. Something can be built and available without being in full production. Prototypes are often built for field testing on proving grounds. Limited production runs allow manufacturers to iron out problems, fix bugs, that sort of thing. Imperial could build a Star or Trinary of Star Pythons for testing, making it available months or years before a full production run. Prototyping would involve building different variants to determine which is the preferred final, production model.
Its a solid posibility. After all the RG are written IC by the Sea Foxes, wich can include wonrg information, and also the "Prototype Star Pythons, which truly embody their namesake, have begun appearing in the Scorpion Touman." excerpt in the RG can give more weight to your post.
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I think I wrote that RecGuide entry...
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One could almost thunked we actually talked to each other to plot things out and make them line up ;)
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One could almost thunked we actually talked to each other to plot things out and make them line up ;)
;D
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One could almost thunked we actually talked to each other to plot things out and make them line up ;)
heresy
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Now a guessing game: What other stuff could the Scorpions be building in the former Hansa factories? Writers can watch and smile amused with our ideas.
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Luxury Minivans. Walking ones. :)
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Now a guessing game: What other stuff could the Scorpions be building in the former Hansa factories? Writers can watch and smile amused with our ideas.
White Flames, Blue Flames and all those other poor abandoned WoB Mechs I still want to field
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The Zeus 9S and Daishis apparently. I'm still trying to figure out how Wolf's Dragoons received a Spartan C, and if the Seekers decided to take up some manufacturing of old Star Leauge and Clan second line versions of them, because there is a lot of Golden Century and Star Leauge material appearing in the Scorpions' ilClan list still. Also who's piloting the Emperor 6A Nerran? His kid? His successor? The former leader of a pop band?
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All of the above, in reverse order. It's piloted by the kid of a pop star's successor.
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I think I mentioned somewhere that they are building new examples of old Star League 'Mechs for the Seekers.
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Wouldn't be surprised if any extra production gets routed to the PGCs garrisoning recently colonized worlds, or whatever forces are found in such places. The same durability and ease of repair that makes those machines attractive to Seekers operating out in the wilds would be vital for troops guarding the slightly-less-wild frontier.
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Ah I see Weirdo has my sense of humor.
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Does anyone know if the new mechs shown in OTP Hanseatic Crusade are going to be in a TRO or Rec Guide anytime in the future?
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Does anyone know if the new mechs shown in OTP Hanseatic Crusade are going to be in a TRO or Rec Guide anytime in the future?
We haven't heard anything that would suggest that, no. Personally, even if it were planned, I wouldn't expect it anytime soon. As much as I would love to see the Rhino get a picture and mini.
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I was pushing for a RecGuide: Scorpion Empire, but Ray gave me a glare so intense it actually hurt.
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Ok, I am officially starting some ilClan era Scorpion Empire (3151 onwards) campaigns/fiction and need some suggestions for expansionist targets
I was thinking how it was mentioned in here, picking at pirates, liberating territories along the edge of Rim Territories and Rim Collection ?
Or claiming the planets in between the two (this is where the pirates are?)
Looking at the IS Map too, would targeting the Chainelane Isles and The Barrens be plausible, and shoring up planets along the Invasion Corridor, taking back Waypoint 531
Having a peak what the Homeworld Clans are up to
What would expansionist forces look towards ?
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Ok, I am officially starting some ilClan era Scorpion Empire (3151 onwards) campaigns/fiction and need some suggestions for expansionist targets
I was thinking how it was mentioned in here, picking at pirates, liberating territories along the edge of Rim Territories and Rim Collection ?
Or claiming the planets in between the two (this is where the pirates are?)
Looking at the IS Map too, would targeting the Chainelane Isles and The Barrens be plausible, and shoring up planets along the Invasion Corridor, taking back Waypoint 531
Having a peak what the Homeworld Clans are up to
What would expansionist forces look towards ?
You may look towards more adventures with Seekers or Warriors supporting Merchants. I would imagine the Scorpion Empire is still dealing with the damage (and minor resistance) from the Hansestic Crusade.
Remember it took the Scorpions decades to successfully integrate the Neuva Castile and Umayyad Calipahte and both were much smaller. Also unlike some of their Clan counterparts the Scorpions are more patient and have taken (by my opinion at least) a slower approach to expansion before the Hanseatic Crusade.
In no way am I knocking down you ideas I’m just saying you might want to take a different approach. Although other Clanners may spit on me for this think more mercenary a small group (roughly Star size) of Seekers looking for an unnamed object in the Periphery (the more vague the better). Their purpose looking for fame (promotion) and fortune (Bloodname).
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The League was a different nation than the Caliphate and Castile territories. Most of the League was serfs, whose lives would improve under the Clans. But eliminating the social structure of the League in one fell swoop, only a tiny portion of the population would resist the new status quo. And most of those would be merchants who would find a new and mostly unchanged life in the merchant caste. The biggest change would be the improved and greatly enlarged merchant caste and the resulting political shift in the Clan itself. With Schmidt joining the Clan and quickly rising to a prominent position, there won't be many former Hansa military trying to mount a rebellion. They'd be more likely to follow his lead or obey his order to lay down arms. In my view, resistance of that type would be minimal, since the former serfs would be eager to repay their former masters for generations of abuse and oppression before any serious uprising could form.
I've also previously stated my idea of how the Scorpions would begin any sort of move toward the Inner Sphere. It would be the same as their expansion toward the League before the Crusade. They established colonies, reducing the distance between the nations. That shrinks supply lines and makes transit time shorter between the original territory and the new one. The Scorpions learned how the great distance between the Homeworlds and the Inner Sphere affected the invader Clans, and they would not want to suffer the same fate. Instead, they'd grow the nation physically with those new colonies, including perhaps some former RWR worlds to appease the Seekers. A trading enclave here or there might be an exception, as with the one they acquired in the Chaine Cluster.
In other words, they're not impulsive and consumed with a need to return to the Inner Sphere for any reason. Their territory is large and needs to be secured, with provision made to increase the territory organically rather than spread their forces too thin via establishment of additional, distant territories to defend.
This of course is all my vision. Other writers might crumple that up and toss it in the trash to repeat all the former stuff that happened with the other Clans instead of trying something different.
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I'm definitely down for a faction or two that isn't aggressively expansionist solely for the sake of expansion. (The Raven Alliance repeatedly disappoints me in that regard, but oh well)
Of course, this being Battletech, we still need a reason for them to come into conflict with others, and encounters with Deep Periphery pirates or more cases of "Seekers show up out of nowhere and challenge for something kooky" will only carry things so far.
Also, Lei Kung is the only McKenna left aside from the Pride outside of the Homeworlds, and it'd be a shame if it never got used. :)
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I have ideas how to shape the Empire's future, but I shan't mention them here. That'd be the surest way to prevent them from happening.
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In other words, they're not impulsive and consumed with a need to return to the Inner Sphere for any reason. Their territory is large and needs to be secured, with provision made to increase the territory organically rather than spread their forces too thin via establishment of additional, distant territories to defend.
I like how you think Doc. There's also still the possibility of adventurism from the Homeworld Clans to consider.
Still looking forward to your next installment, be it within the Imperio or the Seekers continued exploration of the former RWR territories.
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I have ideas how to shape the Empire's future, but I shan't mention them here. That'd be the surest way to prevent them from happening.
By no means tell us a damned thing! ;D :D :thumbsup:
I have faith in ya, Doc! You've done well so far, and so have others like Isberner and company.
I love the Sea Foxes, but the Scorpions are my next favorite corner of this universe, followed by the Ravens. A few of us right on this very page agree on at least 2 of those 3.
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I could see some Seekers taking on the role of Explorer Corps, going out into the unknown to find the last forgotten SLDF / Rim World outposts. There sure seem to have been a fair amount of them around.
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That kinda makes me want to put together some Rim Collection stuff, because you just know that any Seekers looking for RWR leads are gonna be poking around that part of space...
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Any excuse to get the Timbuktu Collective or Rim Territories some attention is welcome
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Any excuse to get the Timbuktu Collective or Rim Territories some attention is welcome
As long as they don’t get destroyed in the process I agree.
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As long as they don’t get destroyed in the process I agree.
Agreed. Faction Death Fatigue is a thing. And it lasts for years. Because the faction killing went on for years.
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Eh. If they get destroyed but we get some nice focused products out of it, I can live with it. I love factions that are not fully fleshed out, that have just enough information to get the brain going and have enough room for my own ideas.
But I still want them to appear in the official writing. I want them to be part of the game. If your not getting kicked in the teeth every now and then, your not part of the game. For small factions that can mean being wiped out. But to me, that's preferable to them just sitting there and filling space on the map.
The amount of words that can be written about the universe are limited and often we learn about the small factions only when they get in conflict with the big stars of the show. If done well, as with the Scorpion Empire, it gives us a chance to learn more about a faction through its demise than we would have gotten by them existing as a label on the map for another 100 years. With the empire have three underused factions all mashed together. We got a whole bunch of cool products out of it and the Castellians and Hansa got more screen time than ever before. And the best thing is, if we're ever nostalgic about the lost factions, we can just take our new understanding of them and play before they were conquered.
Tl;dr: I, for one, am looking forward to the inevitable rise of the Rim Scorpion Empire.
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So what official Scorpion Empire stuff is out there ? Shrapnel, quiaff ?
Also what is their Chaine Cluster outpost ?
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They had a series of Turning Points and Spotlights.
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Or claiming the planets in between the two (this is where the pirates are?)
Pirates are coming from everywhere. As depicted in Moving Forward, they are also coming from the IS. Fleeing from someone and expecting a brighter pasture far away from the IS, only to run into the Scorpions.
But that is not exclusive. Wherever they are coming from, the Scorpions will pump them for information.
There might be some big pirate bases out there, though. That they haven't been mentioned doesn't mean they don't exist. There was simply a limit as to how much information I could put into Moving Forward before the balance would have been lost.
Geoff and I already coordinated a butt load of information to squeeze in there, while trying to keep the focus on actual story telling.
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Eh. If they get destroyed but we get some nice focused products out of it, I can live with it. I love factions that are not fully fleshed out, that have just enough information to get the brain going and have enough room for my own ideas.
One reason why I’m anti-Clan Wolf and anti-Jade Falcon is that despite some literature hinting at certain mercenary groups core values may have crept into their mythos it has never happened. The only Clans that have actually allowed coexistence (and have become the most interesting) are the Scorpions, Ravens, and Ghost Bears. The Nova Cats are reversed and the Jaguars are a big question mark. The Wolves and Falcons (until 3150) have become more cliches and the Hells Horses are just followers right now.
Letting yourself to flesh out your own ideas is great but I find it a blocker when I hear the words disbanded and destroyed because it tells me “doom to fail”. This is also why I like Doc Swifts approach.
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I also want more tales of the Fronc Reaches and the Marshals.
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...
:thumbsup:
TT
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I also want more tales of the Fronc Reaches and the Marshals.
I wrote a short novel as a sequel to "The Marshal Way" several years ago. Don't think it's ever going to see the light of day, though. Shame, that, as I have enough ideas to write a few more.
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I hope to hear more as the Scorpions Seekers have grown on me. I don't need them to go battle just to get to big to hold their state together.
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Did the Hansa have a named military intelligence apparatus that is described anywhere, however briefly?
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Nothing comes to mind. Remember, the Hansa military was not considered a priority and existed primarily to defend merchants' interests for most of its existence. Any intelligence would surely have come from those same merchants. The skullduggery of the League, fomenting unrest in between the Caliphate and Castile for all those years, was probably also carried out by merchants.
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This may be better answered in another thread, but could the Seekers have a working Mackie somewhere? Like an 8B or a 9H?
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They had one (model unknown) in the Temple of the Nine Muses. Whether that's one of the treasures they managed to get out when they left the homeworlds is unknown.
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This may be better answered in another thread, but could the Seekers have a working Mackie somewhere? Like an 8B or a 9H?
TBD if it survived the Scorpion retreat from Roche, but IIRC there are a few Mackies still in Inner Sphere museums. Most of the best surviving Mackie variants (the newer ones still used by Terran militia, etc.) died with the absorption of the Hegemony in the First Succession War.
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I also want more tales of the Fronc Reaches and the Marshals.
It's not a story, but the latest RecGuide has my writeup of the TinStar battlesuit, which premiered in OTP: Fronc Reaches.
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Thanks, Doc. I picked it up on Friday. The new Tinstar art is fantastic. I also love how the original and the ew versions were integrated together after their first release.
I think i need to start building some Periphery Dark Age and ilClan forces. What's the standard general line
Trinary for the Scorpion Empire called? I don't have my Hanseatic Crusade handy right now.
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Thanks, Doc. I picked it up on Friday. The new Tinstar art is fantastic. I also love how the original and the ew versions were integrated together after their first release.
I think i need to start building some Periphery Dark Age and ilClan forces. What's the standard general line
Trinary for the Scorpion Empire called? I don't have my Hanseatic Crusade handy right now.
You mean Battle Trinary?
1 BM, 1 ELE, 1 ASF
The other are:
ASSAULT: 2 BM, 1 ELE
COMMAND: 2 BM, 1 COMPOSITE*
GUARD: 1 BM, 2 ELE
SPECIALIST: 2 ELE, 1 ASF
STRIKER: 2 BM, 1 ASF
*2 ELE POINTS, 1 ASF POINT, 2 BM POINTS
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Sarna mentions they were one of the most strict in terms cluster/trinary/star make up.
Comes from FM: Warden Clans
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Imperio_Militar_del_Escorpión
There is a spotlight on a seeker Star, although those are much more eclectic than regular units.
Best bet would be the newer turning point on the Hanseatic crusades and the other pdfs
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Just finished "Moving Forward"
Good read, really cements the Empire.
Question though, for Dark Age and ilClan eras, where have the Warhawks gone ? Are they still around in a niche somewhere ?
I do not recall seeing one released with Wizkids / Clicktek stuff, as if there was a mini from there I would have definitely got it
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Post Jihad / WoR the Warhawk is Scorpion exclusive, as per the MUL (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4606/masakari-warhawk-base)
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Post Jihad / WoR the Warhawk is Scorpion exclusive, as per the MUL (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4606/masakari-warhawk-base)
Ahh I see, thanks. That was one of my favorite mechs, alpha strike 1 hit kill on most IS lights lol
You think once Sea Fox starts the trading chain with the Empire, they will get the design or should I say earn the right to its plans ?
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they're the only ones with a concentration worth noting. a few may have slipped down the trade routes into the inner sphere but they're very rare.
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Just finished "Moving Forward"
Good read, really cements the Empire.
Thank you :)
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Basically, Warhawks were only manufactured in the Homeworlds, and the Scorps are the only ones who managed to take the plans with them when they left
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The uproar about the RD in DD kinda makes losing ProtoMechs seem not so bad, eh? ;D
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One of those options has more scenario hooks and deployable unit types, and thus is superior for a wargame faction.
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The uproar about the RD in DD kinda makes losing ProtoMechs seem not so bad, eh? ;D
Not really, no.
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The uproar about the RD in DD kinda makes losing ProtoMechs seem not so bad, eh? ;D
You know, i already meet a couple of CGB fans that are willing to change to the Escorps. Mostly because they dont like the rest of the OZ clans.
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Why would they do that? The Bears are finally starting to get interesting.
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Why would they do that? The Bears are finally starting to get interesting.
Mostly, its rejection to the whole RD "Civil War" and how the Dev are setting the clan. I am not a CGB/RD fan, so i can not say much more than that.
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An off topic question, where did they get gene samples for the ELH bloodnames? Some had no one with those name in the 71st LH. Also is there any idea of which bloodnames where made from them?
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Do we have a list of every ELH soldier that was Absorbed?
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The Barclay Bloodname (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Barclay_(Bloodname)) is noted in Operational Turning Points - Hanseatic Crusade sourcebook and claimed to be "one of (the) Clan’s new Blood Legacies created from Eridani Light Horse genetic samples Another Bloodname of Eridani descent is the Winston Bloodname (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Winston_(Bloodname)).
The majority of the survivors were taken as abtakha and formed the basis of two new light clusters along with a scattering of Clan Seekers. The remaining personnel of the 71st, primarily the command staff and most talented MechWarriors, were scattered throughout Clan Goliath Scorpion primarily, with a few taken as isorla by other Clans.
So, as much as needed, only two can be traced to ELH.
TT
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Only two have been specified... so far. :)
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Only two have been specified... so far. :)
What do you have planned? ^-^
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Yeah! When do we get the next installment of Scorpion Tales?
(See what I did there? :facepalm: )
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Nothing specific. But adding ELH genes into their breeding program is what drove them from the Homeworlds. That's a lot of time to collect genetic samples.
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So, more for my own internal bookkeeping, but also to help other fans, i have made this short list of the Clan Goliath Scorpion/Scorpion Empire Galaxies and their camo. Feel free to correct me if you think i am wrong.
Alpha Galaxy - (Slate gray with black highlights or camouflage mottling.)
Beta Galaxy - Now Hellion Galaxy (since 3095) - (Sandy beige or gold with black accents.)
Hellion Keshik - (pale ice blue. A single navy blue pinstripe runs along the outside of each limb. The Hellion Galaxy insignia stands proud on the front right and rear left torso.)
Gamma Galaxy - Disbanded in 3073 - (Blood-red and gold color.)
Delta Galaxy - Destroyed on Brim in 3072 - (Black with orange and red highlights resembling molten lava.)
Rho Galaxy - Disbanded in 3086 - (Sandstone red with dark gray highlights.)
Tau Galaxy - (Hunter green with black accents.)
Mu Galaxy - (Bright white base coat accented with royal blue highlights; appropriate camouflage patterns are used where the situation demands.)
Chi Galaxy - Now Seeker Galaxy - (Browns with golden yellow accents. They do not yet display insignia. Warriors are permitted to decorate their preferred dueling weapon with a bright green ‘poison’ design.)
Seeker Keshik - (This is my theory = Blood-red and silver color, like the Crimson Seeker Star.)
Omega Galaxy - (Green, with stripes along the arms of 'Mechs and battle armor, the turrets of vehicles when possible and the sides when not, and the wings of aerospace fighters. The stripes are equal parts red over yellow.)
PGC/Grunt Galaxy - (Camo unknown)
Eta Galaxy - (Camo Unknown)
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Nothing specific. But adding ELH genes into their breeding program is what drove them from the Homeworlds. That's a lot of time to collect genetic samples.
Yes, Seekers doing their thing behind the scenes. Meh, I think what the Scrops have now, is way better than what they had in the Homeworlds
Now all they need is a totem mech ! >:D
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The Fire Scorpion isn't Scorpion enough? Or the Araña?
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The Fire Scorpion isn't Scorpion enough? Or the Araña?
Nope. Need two superheavy tripods, fused together at their torsos, for the Scorp totem mech.
I’m sure the Burrocks had a prototype or two that fused dozens of bipedal mechs together. Just resurrect that tech.
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Totem quad Protos would've been nice, too. Plenty of mythological scorpions to draw names from.
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I'm down for that. :thumbsup:
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Me too, and the Protomech could have a "tail" that acts as a melee and or a grappling function
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Totem quad Protos would've been nice, too. Plenty of mythological scorpions to draw names from.
Me too, and the Protomech could have a "tail" that acts as a melee and or a grappling function
Over the head Torso Mounted Clan Battlemech Taser...
TT
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Over the head Torso Mounted Clan Battlemech Taser...
TT
Where the Taser, if the unit gets close enough, can do like a ER PPC discharge thingie, where it can short circuit computer systems 8)
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Checking the Scorpion Empire MUL mech list for an Omega force, i came upon the Naja, a very interesting mech from TRO:GC. A very old CCC mech, it was last avaible during the Clan Invasion, but looks like that both the Naja and its predecesor, the Kintaro -19b-EC, are avible to the SE since the Late republic Era, with only the Naja going so far to the IlClan Era.
Nasty medium for second line forces, and even uses "improved" SRM systems, a step between the IS and Clan missile systems.
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I like the Naja because it and others like it show that the Scorpion fondness for direct-fire accuracy isn't an absolute to be sought out at all times, more like a favorite dessert to be enjoyed when you can get it.
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They surely learned a good many things since absorbing the Caliphate and Castile, and the Crusade of course.
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They surely learned a good many things since absorbing the Caliphate and Castile, and the Crusade of course.
Doc, whats the Empire policy on conventional infantry? I am sure you can see them in PGC/Grunt Galaxy, but what about a 2nd Line Galaxy like Omega or Eta? Would ask the same for vehicles too.
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I don't know if any of their Galaxies have been classified as second-line...
Conventional infantry should be expected to be a solahma posting.
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It's strange, the Scorpion Empire only has one Galaxy that I'd confidently call second-line: Grunt Galaxy. Mu and Tau used be second-line, but OTP: Hanseatic Crusade definitely characterizes them as offensive formations. Omega feels like it should be a second-line formation but it's hard to tell. Seeker Galaxy doesn't even seem to be second-line, despite so many of them piloting vintage Star League Mechs instead of Omnis. It's a very top-heavy touman. I'd love to see another second-line Galaxy formed that incorporates the Hansa, but the touman already seems a bit large as it is.
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Grunt Caste garrisons probably use plenty of conventional troops as well.
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I know that RAT are not usually the best way to see the actual composition of a formation, but looking at OTP:HC, both Omega and PGC/Grunt uses almost exclusively 2nd Line mechs (non-omni) (with the exception of the Naga). Also the information given to Omega camo scheme mentions tanks in addition to mech, asf and BAs. Usually only 2nd Line and PGC use clans (outside of CHH of course).
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Grunt Caste garrisons probably use plenty of conventional troops as well.
Yep, their descriptor in ISP3 flat-out says they're primarily vehicles and conventional infantry, assigned to security and police forces.
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Anything that described the touman pre-Crusade/Empire could certainly have changed. And I don't see why they might not have vehicles in front-line Clusters. They have so much territory to secure that I tend to think their touman still needs to grow.
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So with the Scorpions having an enclave in the Chaine Cluster now, connected back to the Empire proper by repeater stations, it occurs to me that a fun name for said enclave would be the Stinger, if one considers the line of repeater stations to be the "tail" leading back to the body. Part of me kinda wants to submit a Shrapnel story and make that happen. ;D
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Checking the Scorpion Empire MUL mech list for an Omega force, i came upon the Naja, a very interesting mech from TRO:GC. A very old CCC mech, it was last avaible during the Clan Invasion, but looks like that both the Naja and its predecesor, the Kintaro -19b-EC, are avible to the SE since the Late republic Era, with only the Naja going so far to the IlClan Era.
Nasty medium for second line forces, and even uses "improved" SRM systems, a step between the IS and Clan missile systems.
iirc, didn't they empty out all the brian caches they could get a hold of before they left the homeworlds? i would assume a lot of the oddities like that were the result of them grabbing anything that was in serviceable shape. they didn't have the ability to be picky at that time.
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their imperio roster definitely was designed to be whatever they could beg, borrow, or steal on their way out. it was a combination of the jihad touman, cache looting, and the waypoint 531 gear stashed by the wobbies
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Anything that described the touman pre-Crusade/Empire could certainly have changed. And I don't see why they might not have vehicles in front-line Clusters. They have so much territory to secure that I tend to think their touman still needs to grow.
Here's hoping it didn't. That was a fun bit, and anything that sets the Scorpions apart from other Clans is inherently a good thing. Besides, as you've mentioned, they've got a lot of territory to garrison, and did even before the Crusade, what with all those new colonies. They *need* cheap grunt forces to secure the frontiers of their empire.
their imperio roster definitely was designed to be whatever they could beg, borrow, or steal on their way out. it was a combination of the jihad touman, cache looting, and the waypoint 531 gear stashed by the wobbies
It was the best thing to happen to any Clan since the ERML. :smitten:
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So with the Scorpions having an enclave in the Chaine Cluster now, connected back to the Empire proper by repeater stations, it occurs to me that a fun name for said enclave would be the Stinger, if one considers the line of repeater stations to be the "tail" leading back to the body. Part of me kinda wants to submit a Shrapnel story and make that happen. ;D
:thumbsup:
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their imperio roster definitely was designed to be whatever they could beg, borrow, or steal on their way out. it was a combination of the jihad touman, cache looting, and the waypoint 531 gear stashed by the wobbies
I am not well versed in the WoR, but were the Scorps allied or friendly yo the Cobras in any way, or they had acess to the Cobras´s depots?
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So what production lines from the Hanseatic Leauge would be upgraded or replaced?
We know they produced the following based on a couple of sources
Awesome 8Q and 9Q
Thunderbolt 5S
Zeus 6S
Zeus 9S
Wasp 3S
Wasp 1A
Banshee 3E
Banshee 3S
Banshee 5S
Wolverine 6R
Wolverine 7D
Phoenix Hawk 1
Phoenix Hawk 3D
Phoenix Hawk 3S
Locust 3D
Locust 1V
Urbanmech R60
Urbanmech R63
Surtur 1R
Demolisher Heavy Tank
Tiger Medium Tank
Vedette Medium Tank
AC/2 Carrier
Other "heavy" vehicles
Centurion Light Aerospace Fighter
Thrush Light Aerospace Fighter
Vulcan 5 and 6N Heavy Aerospace Fighter
Overlord Dropship
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We know of at the very least one Awesome C, so there is a chance that the Awesome line is used to created that variant.But keeping with the current examples of the Wolf Empire with he captured ex-FWL plants, the lines can be use to make almost anything the Scorpions have the acess to designs and parts.
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I am not well versed in the WoR, but were the Scorps allied or friendly yo the Cobras in any way, or they had acess to the Cobras´s depots?
As I recall, the Cobras led the charge on Abjuring the Goliath Scorpions. If they were close before the WoR, they certainly weren't by the end of it.
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Given how common Pixies were in the Hansa’s RATs, I’ve always had some head canon that said that Phoenix Hawk lines would be early converts. Of course, in my head it’s to both Cs and C2s, MUL or no MUL.
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I can see the Locust lines changing to Locust IIC. It already happened in the OZ/WE.
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Going back to Omega Galaxy (sorry, i am not obsessed, i am thinking in making a AS force for it), how probable is for them to field Omnis? Maybe a Star Commander/Captain would have one?
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Going back to Omega Galaxy (sorry, i am not obsessed, i am thinking in making a AS force for it), how probable is for them to field Omnis? Maybe a Star Commander/Captain would have one?
Not terribly probable according to their RATs (only the Naga is even listed), but a commander can always justify rocking an Omni in a faction that has access to them.
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Not terribly probable according to their RATs (only the Naga is even listed), but a commander can always justify rocking an Omni in a faction that has access to them.
Yeah, that has been always a thing since i have memory. Problem is that i came into problems trying to integrate BAs into my force without omnis to carry. They either go hopping around, or i have to get them a carrier.
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OmniMechs are for wusses. REAL Elementals ride into battle in a-Aw, the Clan Saladin is extinct. :'(
Ah well, there's always airmobile deployments, which we know the Scorpions love. And if a Kirghiz is too expensive, they do have access to things like the Mk VII. >:D
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Yeah, that has been always a thing since i have memory. Problem is that i came into problems trying to integrate BAs into my force without omnis to carry. They either go hopping around, or i have to get them a carrier.
There's a reason I made sure to give the Empire the ability to build BA with magclamps. :)
I would have no problem with OmniMechs in Omega Galaxy. Once they have sufficient OmniMech production capacity, non-Omnis would be replaced everywhere, save where pilots choose otherwise. Seeker Galaxy, for example, is where one would expect old SL 'Mechs. Eta might favor any non-Omnis built on former Hansa worlds. Omega's non-Omnis would be sent to PGCs and solahma units.
The intent, of course, would be to equip their entire touman with the best equipment they can build. Their resources are not limited as they might have been in the Homeworlds. They should have a production excess (this is shown in Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik, in that the MechWarriors each have two 'Mechs), so after filling out their own ranks, they can export the rest via the vast Hansa merchant fleet. The exported equipment, one might guess, would not be their top-of-the-line products. No need to give potential foes your best stuff.
One thing on Sarna that I take issue with is that Grunt Galaxy is listed as part of the touman. Grunt Galaxy was formed during the Crusade out of desperation, due to casualties exceeding projections. It would not have remained a Galaxy after the Crusade. Those troops would have reverted to their PGCs (or law enforcement, whatever) after the Crusade. (At least I don't believe it's stated anywhere that it became a permanent Galaxy...)
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While I get the reasoning why they'd disband after the Hanseatic Crusade, I hope Grunt Galaxy sticks around. The more unique flavor the Scorpion Empire has to make them stand out against other Clan fusion states (the RasDom, the Raven Alliance), the better, and having a dedicated garrison force in such a top-heavy touman can only be a positive.
Besides, someone's gonna have to hold down the fort when the Homeworld Clans come along to crush the Empire. ;D
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There's a reason I made sure to give the Empire the ability to build BA with magclamps. :)
Wich one, the MUL do not list any BA with XMEC for the Scorps.
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Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik is a good resource.
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Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik is a good resource.
I knew i was not crazy! Sadly, the MUL have no updated its availability yet for the Empire. Will try to negotiate its inclusion to the small tournament i will be playing.
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There's gotta be a way to summon Sartris, right?
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$10,000 in cash is amazingly effective
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I hope you've been saving, BM!
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I hope you've been saving, BM!
Would you take argentine pesos instead? ;D
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From the onset of Operation REVIVAL through to the outbreak of the Wars of Reaving, it was possible for the Khans of the Invading Clans to "phone in" remotely to Clan Grand Council meetings back on Strana Mechty.
In principle, the establishment of an HPG relay from the Empire proper to the Chaine Cluster could allow for a similar long-range line of communication, but in reverse: from Braunschweig through to Terra, depending on what kind of progress the Sea Foxes make on restoring the Inner Sphere and near Periphery HPG network.
To this point, I've been wondering if such a thing might lead to direct negotiations between the Empire's leadership and Alaric Ward himself - perhaps in parallel with any other Clan Khans on the new would-be Star League's Council - to determine whether or not Clan Goliath Scorpion would be "un-Abjured" at least, or perhaps granted a place on the Council at most.
But then, the zarKhan is in no hurry to accede to the authority of an IlClan - and given Alaric's antics in Dominions Divided, it's as yet unclear as to what (if any) favourable terms the IlKhan might be willing to offer the Scorpion Empire at any rate.
So, here's a thought... what if the Scorpions were to open side negotiations with the Hell's Horses?
On the one hand, that might be a handy means of increasing the number of QuadVee-using factions from one to two. On the other hand, perhaps the Horses might welcome a source of functional HPGs which was something other than Clan Sea Fox. And if the first round of negotiations with Alaric were to fall through, the Horse OZ might serve as a useful barrier... at least until a further round of negotiations proved more fruitful.
Or to put it another way: perhaps the Scorpion leadership would be best served by keeping its options open, by opening negotiations with Alaric on the one hand, and with the Horse Khans on the other?
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Yeah, they can afford to play the long game, as per their location.
(Except when the Homeworld Clans perhaps in 50 years ? Invade the coreward side of the IS, and do a side strike against the Scorps too ?)
But, as it stands, does not the position of the zarKhan say that they "may" work with the new SLDF if it aligns with their goals, but not submit to it ?
Do the Scorps still see themselves as the closest to the "real" Star League, given their new fusion society now, and ELH genes too ?
Would they make a play with the Horses (disgruntled Bears?) for leadership, or again are they content with what they have
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Well, i did 2 versions of the same Nova for a test AS tournament using the Wolfnet Radio "350pv" rules.
More "2nd line feel" Nova - 351pv
Name Type Skill PV
Naja BattleMech 2 64
Lynx C BattleMech 3 50
Goshawk BattleMech 3 49
Vixen BattleMech 3 46
Sun Bear B BattleMech 3 50
Infiltrator Mk. II Battle Armor (Magnetic) (Sqd5) Infantry 4 17
Infiltrator Mk. II Battle Armor (Magnetic) (Sqd5) Infantry 4 17
Infiltrator Mk. II Battle Armor (Magnetic) (Sqd5) Infantry 4 17
Infiltrator Mk. II Battle Armor (Magnetic) (Sqd5) Infantry 4 17
Gnome Battle Armor (Sqd5) Infantry 3 24
More "1st Line feel" Nova - 351 pv
Name Type Skill PV
Storm Crow A BattleMech 3 54
Sun Bear A BattleMech 3 60
Hellion Prime BattleMech 4 43
Goshawk BattleMech 4 41
Mad Dog F BattleMech 3 52
Elemental Battle Armor [Flamer] (Sqd5) Infantry 4 20
Elemental Battle Armor [Flamer] (Sqd5) Infantry 4 20
Gnome Battle Armor (Sqd5) Infantry 3 24
Gnome Battle Armor (Sqd5) Infantry 4 20
Longinus Battle Armor (Magnetic) (Sqd5) Infantry 4 17
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Well, ended up using the 2nd line feel" Nova for two diferent games (Capture the Flag & Bunkers). As per the tourney rules you use 200 in each mission of your 350 force, i left the Naja out in the two mission as it was way to expensive. Win one and lost one, and in times, it felt like a Hellion force, going full speed and agression to get to the objectives. MVPs were the Incubus/Vixen and the Lunx C, as the Goshawk had bad luck both times, and the Sun Bear became a fire magnet. The poor Infiltrators Mk. II magnetic were also fire magnets in the "Bunkers" mission.
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I think a war between the Scorpion Empire and the Home Clans would be a deadlock. Neither would win. An ongoing bloody quagmire.
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I think a war between the Scorpion Empire and the Home Clans would be a deadlock. Neither would win. An ongoing bloody quagmire.
The Adders alone could overwhelm the Scorpion Empire if they applied themselves. Especially if they leveraged their still-considerable fleet and engaged in orbital bombardment (the Scorpions are dezgra and Abjured so there's no obligation or expectation for the other Clans to fight them honorably). Throw in the Cobras, Coyotes and Lions, and it's a wrap for the Scorps.
If not for the Home Clans being relegated to the storage closet, there wouldn't be a Scorpion Empire right now.
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We do not know the status of the Home Clans.
I agree given the status of the 3090ies (last infos we got) the Home Clans would crush the Empire.
But now, the Empire has gotten far stronger. The Home Clans are the Known Unknown, they could now be only as strong as the Empire.
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I wouldn't say they've gotten "far" stronger. The Empire has only added a single new Galaxy (Eta; Grunt Galaxy is, per Swift's comment above, not intended to be a permanent formation but I can't imagine it wouldn't be reactivated if they were invaded) and padded their existing Galaxies by 13 Clusters since the 3080s. Even with the Home Clans' 3080s strength as a measuring stick (and I personally assume they're growing their toumans in preparation for future invasion), the Scorpion Empire couldn't hope to stand against a sustained invasion by the Home Clans, especially with them having a plethora of WarShips and the proven will to use them. There's just no way that the Adders wouldn't just bomb the Scorps from orbit if things got untenable on the ground, and that, as they say, would be that. It's literally company fiat keeping the Home Clans locked away that the Empire even exists right now; the Adders were already sniffing around the Hanseatic League, scouting staging worlds and planning an invasion of their own, and that's not even considering the other Home Clans' participation. It wouldn't necessarily be a one-sided/lopsided conflict, mind you, but the Scorpions would definitely lose the war at the end of the day.
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I'm with Tassa, the Homeworlds would likely steamroll the Scorpions in a direct invasion if it ever comes to that.
But, it's actually the flourishing of the Scorpion Empire that makes me fear the Homeworlds aren't coming back. I don't believe I recall a single mention of the Homeworlds in the Hanseatic Crusade OTP, it was all in the perspective of the Scorpions righting wrongs committed by the Hansa, not so much as a peep about needing to prepare to someday fight the figurative leviathan known to reside just down the galactic way. Neuva Castille's neighborhood was the only other place the Homeworld Clans were ever seen after the Reavings, and to see the Scorps so unconcerned with that corner as they make all these grand plans and challenge the Sea Foxes in the Chainelaines leads me to believe there will be nothing to threaten them, as they don't even seem to be looking in that direction. And they're the ones closest to the hypothetical danger. I've no doubt there is info that I'm not privy to, but my hopes are dampened after the past 10+ years of silence from that region IRL.
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After all it is possible that the Homeworlds are now nearly dead.. and the Clanners who survive there are loosing their "Tech", after all didn't they kill the Science Class?
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I wouldn't read into the lack of mention of the Homeworlds as any sort of indicator of the Scorpions' fears or intentions.
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I wouldn't read into the lack of mention of the Homeworlds as any sort of indicator of the Scorpions' fears or intentions.
I certainly won't. The Homeworld Clans should be at the very top of the Scorpions' list of external concerns.
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At the very least they can continue to serve their purpose as the boogeyman threat that always looms but never arrives. It serves the narrative in that it gives the Scorpions a reason to continue on as they are because, really, what good is a clan society without war or the threat of it?
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Fast forward to 3180 ? Homies Invasion of Coreward IS ? And are "really different" from how we left them era 3090
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Fast forward to 3180 ? Homies Invasion of Coreward IS ? And are "really different" from how we left them era 3075
Minor nitpick...
TT
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Minor nitpick...
3090 was correct, as that's the in-universe date in the WoR Supplemental and that was our last look at the Homeworld Clans.
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The one Homie advantage is their WarShips.
With the resources the Empire now has, it's logical they will establish an Imperial Navy with WarShips to augment their current Big Three.
If the Imperial Navy has time to grow to a sufficient number, the Homies will just have to bypass the Empire and invade the IS outright.
And that's assuming the Homie storyline goes the positive route and they are allowed to thrive post-3090.
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I think that’s a pretty big if, mind you.
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Gaining a real WarShip fleet would make losing Protos worth it. Maybe also the loss of the Blakist gear, if the WarShips aren't half-assed.
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I think that’s a pretty big if, mind you.
Why not? The Homies have a massively disproportionate touman and fleet ratio to their populations and worlds/resources. A developing realm like the Empire can easily build shipyards in the rimward Hansa systems after a few years and start producing JumpShips and WarShips.
They will have to build shipyards to service and produce JumpShips and those are dual purpose with WarShip construction capability once their merchant marine reaches sufficient size to cover trade routes.
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The Brekke Naval Yard is also kinda sitting there. Who knows if it's still sufficiently defended... ;D
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As much as I love the idea, warships haven't be made in a while at the time of the Ilclan (except for the Alshain). Without the yards for building them or even Jumpships, as far as we know, they are unlikely to do so. They may want to start with assault dropships and pocket warships.
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The Brekke Naval Yard is also kinda sitting there. Who knows if it's still sufficiently defended... ;D
Taking that would start a war with the Sea Foxes which is unlikely to end well no matter the outcome.
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Any war with the Foxes will likely involve Alaric's arbitration.
Of course, hypothetical JumpShip/WarShip yards can only be built by the Empire at the earliest 5-10 years down the road
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As much as I love the idea, WarShips haven't been made in a while at the time of the Ilclan (except for the Alshain).
Was Alshain ever explicitly confirmed to be a WarShip? Was Emerald Talon II, for that matter?
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Taking that would star a war with the Sea Foxes which is unlikely to end well no matter the outcome.
Your terms are acceptable.
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Was Alshain ever explicitly confirmed to be a WarShip? Was Emerald Talon II, for that matter?
In the RasDom thread it was confirmed it was written like it was a warship. If this is explicit and means the same in universe I’m not sure.
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Do you have a link, please?
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Do you have a link, please?
I do now
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/clan-chatterweb/the-rasalhague-dominion-making-our-neighbors-move-since-3063/msg1906807/#msg1906807
That post and then Jellico posts again a few posts down.
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That's confirmation, all right. And it helps wrap up an older ship, too! :thumbsup:
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The Brekke Naval Yard is also kinda sitting there. Who knows if it's still sufficiently defended... ;D
The Brekke facilities don't have the capability of building WarShips or JumpShips, unfortunately. And I can't imagine the Foxes would leave such a valuable investment (they upgraded the yards to increase their size fivefold) undefended.
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For starting a Scorpion boi force, which of the force packs do y'all think would be the best? I'm still new to a lot of the lore so I'm really not sure. I'm planning on doing Tau galaxy cause I like the color scheme (and that they don't die) if that helps.
Also, if I wanted to use some combined arms/vehicles are there any lore friendly ones? Especially getting into like dark age and ilClan.
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Most of Tau was lost in the end stages of the Hanseatic Crusade.
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Most of Tau was lost in the end stages of the Hanseatic Crusade.
Most? So they still live lol. What do you think are the chances that they are reinforced/rebuilt or would they be dissolved?
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Nothing is dead and gone until a published book explicitly says so. And even then, said death is often impermanent. Go have fun. :thumbsup:
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The great thing about the Scorpions is you van mix and match. A clan Fire star will work, but a comstar battle level II will also work.
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Most? So they still live lol. What do you think are the chances that they are reinforced/rebuilt or would they be dissolved?
As noted, nothing was stated that they were removed from the rolls. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. It means that I left the door open for someone to make that choice as it might suit their needs for a later story or sourcebook. :)
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Most? So they still live lol. What do you think are the chances that they are reinforced/rebuilt or would they be dissolved?
Tau Galaxy is still around per "Moving Forward":
Mild spoilers for those who've not read it:
"Peter had also told her the Preserver faction was in an uproar. One of them had already died in a failed trial against the Khan. More had challenged him, but his rank allowed him to choose which challenges he would accept. Because of this, Tau Galaxy was in need of a new Galaxy Commander."
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Could be a revived formation after the first was dissolved (same name, different composition/doctrine, whatever). Lots can happen in an undescribed decade.
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Dissolving it in the first place is pretty silly. The Empire was able to whip up a whole new Galaxy (Eta) in just a few years, so I don't see why they wouldn't have just replenished Tau during the aftermath of the Crusade. They obviously had the manpower and material to do it.
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So I know how they've made the Awesome C, is there a chance they've done similar sorts of stuff for traditional combat vehicles? I know clans in general don't like vehicles but I'd think with how many more troops they'd need they would need to use them. Especially in the Grunt Galaxy and/or for freebirth soldiers?
also anyone else think it'd be cool if the Scorpion Empire eventually got quadvees?
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One faction with QuadVees is enough IMO. I have a feeling they might be going the way of Protomechs, moving forward.
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So I know how they've made the Awesome C, is there a chance they've done similar sorts of stuff for traditional combat vehicles? I know clans in general don't like vehicles but I'd think with how many more troops they'd need they would need to use them. Especially in the Grunt Galaxy and/or for freebirth soldiers?
There's apparently no more Grunt Galaxy post-Hanseatic Crusade, but I don't see why the Grunt Caste in general shouldn't be using tons of vehicles. Hell, the Hanseatic Crusade book gives us vehicle RATs for the Scorpions, but that book also seems to explicitly lay out (via the Scorpion Military Organization chart) that Scorpions don't use any vehicles in the non-garrison portion of their touman for... some reason.
I have a feeling they might be going the way of Protomechs, moving forward.
Not if their current writer has anything to say about it. He's made a thorough effort to rid the Scorps of their Protos.
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By "going the way of Protomechs" I meant "disappearing", so I think we're actually agreeing.
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that book also seems to explicitly lay out (via the Scorpion Military Organization chart) that Scorpions don't use any vehicles in the non-garrison portion of their touman for... some reason.
Yeah that really confused me, and is part of the reason I was asking. Like, we've seen for other factions that once you reach a certain size you need to be using vehicles to bulk out your forces. And especially for the Scorpions vehicles are so much easier to make with a lower tech base, and most vehicle weapons/armor are the same as for mechs so there's no reason to not make dropship loads of vehicles while trying to build up to producing more mechs. I get clans no like vehicles but still.
Another thing, the Eridani Light Horse uses vehicles to great affect and since Goliath Scorpion absorbed part of them I can't imagine they wouldn't try and learn from their tactics.
Also I just learned the clans already have variants of tanks like the Demolisher so there's no reason they wouldn't at least have a general idea of how to make one
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By "going the way of Protomechs" I meant "disappearing", so I think we're actually agreeing.
What would make you think that? We got a new QuadVee in the last published TRO and they're still going strong on the Horses' RATs in Tamar Rising.
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They built the Awesome C because they already built the Awesome and the former head of the Hanseatic Defense Force became part of the Empire's elite Hellion Keshik. Influence opens a lot of doors. Other upgrades are possible, but since the Keshik acquired advanced data from their trial against Clan Sea Fox, I think it'd be more likely to see more modern units rather than more Clan upgrades of older units. The near-decade between the Crusade and that move into the Chaine Cluster could certainly have been used to produce more C versions of the old Hansa 'Mechs.
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What would make you think that? We got a new QuadVee in the last published TRO and they're still going strong on the Horses' RATs in Tamar Rising.
Nothing in the Rec guides and no new minis make it less likely we'll see new ones. Also no mention of them in Tamar Rising beyond the RAT.
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there were never going to be quadvees in the recguides so that's not a sign of anthing
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To me it's at least a sign that they aren't terribly popular.
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I mean, they're a niche unit that only one relatively niche faction uses, and they've only been around for two eras (Dark Age and ilClan). Of course they're not popular. But that doesn't mean they're going anywhere, either.
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To me it's at least a sign that they aren't terribly popular.
QuadVees are using rules not supported in BMM or TW. If you look at what equipment is covered in the RecGuides, that might give you a reason.
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What I find interesting is that the Scorpion Empire is still using original Wolverine 6Rs. Did the Seeker influence preserve that production line from Bordello Goods? Or is it simply to ensure more forces for garrison units?
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Probably kept the Hansa factory going for a while before any retooling, as a cheap way to get solid mechs for rapidly raised garrison and solahma units.
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Probably kept the Hansa factory going for a while before any retooling, as a cheap way to get solid mechs for rapidly raised garrison and solahma units.
and since they're introtech, they can easily be given "C refits" later when the amount of clantech in production exceeds what the frontline units need. honestly you can do a fairly straight swap to clantech LB5X, Streak 6, CERML, or just drop in twin CSRM6 instead of the streak, and use the weight savings from the AC for extra ammo for the SRMs.
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Maybe the Scorpions think that since they were abjured, they are no longer restricted from mentioning the Wolverines or using the 'Mech with the same name. Or maybe no one addressed it because they haven't felt like it. The MUL is hardly monolithic and immutable.
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and heck, maybe they renamed it in their useage, and it just hasn't been mentioned.
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and heck, maybe they renamed it in their useage, and it just hasn't been mentioned.
A posibility, the Clans tend to fall in those kind of "little hypocrisies".
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The sarna page on the Scorpion Empire mentions that they broadcast their stance toward the ilClan to their population, but do we know what that stance is?
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It's covered in "Moving Forward" in Shrapnel 6.
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The sarna page on the Scorpion Empire mentions that they broadcast their stance toward the ilClan to their population, but do we know what that stance is?
A stance that Alaric will not like at all.
BTW, the Third Imperial Guards (or 3rd Imperio Guards in 3086) of Omega Galaxy were renamed to what name for the Hanseatic Crusades? I know its a slightly pedantic question, but i wonder what X cluster of the Galaxy in 3086 became by the Crusades.
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As of the OTP, Omega Galaxy consisted of the First Imperial Pincers, the Second Imperial Cuirassiers, the Fourth Imperial Uhlans, the Third and Fifth Imperial Dragoons and the Sixth Imperial Grenadiers. It sounds to me like Omega Galaxy was completely overhauled and reorganized between WoR and OTP:HC to become less a militarized police force and more a proper Scorpion unit, so it's likely not been renamed at all.
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Omega was originally Castillian Brigada, right?
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Omega was originally Castillian Brigada, right?
The Caliph Brigada, yep.
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The Caliph Brigada, yep.
Aff.
As of the OTP, Omega Galaxy consisted of the First Imperial Pincers, the Second Imperial Cuirassiers, the Fourth Imperial Uhlans, the Third and Fifth Imperial Dragoons and the Sixth Imperial Grenadiers. It sounds to me like Omega Galaxy was completely overhauled and reorganized between WoR and OTP:HC to become less a militarized police force and more a proper Scorpion unit, so it's likely not been renamed at all.
What i mean, its in what those original cluster came to be by 3140? Take in count that the 3th Imperial Guards became notorious thanks to their action in Holdout (the few that survived, of course). For the example, they could have become the Third Imperial Dragoons.
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I suppose it's possible, since it appears that the Galaxy still maintains its original purpose of housing the natives, but we simply don't know more than that.
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It's covered in "Moving Forward" in Shrapnel 6.
Thanks!
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A stance that Alaric will not like at all.
My favorite kind of stance, as it happens! No boot-lickers for me, please and thank you...
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They have it on the MUL so this isn't exactly a stretch, but I find myself really liking the notion of a Spartan C heading an Empire star. Dunno what else would go with it, it's just a pleasing daydream.
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Shrapnel 12 is out on Amazon for Kindle. I've got a story in it that might appeal to those following this thread. :)
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On it, Doc!!
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That's a good name for a DropShip, I like it. And I'm always happy when Lions get screen time. :thumbsup:
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They have it on the MUL so this isn't exactly a stretch, but I find myself really liking the notion of a Spartan C heading an Empire star. Dunno what else would go with it, it's just a pleasing daydream.
Naga II
Phoenix Hawk IIC 3
Viper (Black Python)
Mad Cat
Thor
Flashman (this SO needs a C variant)
Loki
Vulture
Cauldron Born
Lancelot C
Ryoken
Naja
Lynx C
Goshawk
Lightray
Sun Bear
Surtur
Elementals/other BA with or without magnetic clamps
Anything lighter then 55 tons is pushing it against heavy and assault class Clan foes, with the potential exception of the Rhino. But that gives you 18 different chassis to use. The Scorps don't have any real fast heavy or medium vehicles to accompany a Spartan to the battlefield other then the Epona or a Stygian, and they're better used with lighter, faster units like Hellions.
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Oh, ha, I meant it in a "I have not thought further than this" way rather than soliciting help but thank you for the suggestions all the same. It is appreciated.
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Anytime.
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Pretty nice story in the last Sharpnel. A shame the last Delphyne proto in Scorpion hands got destroyed....that thing belong in a museum.
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Pretty nice story in the last Sharpnel. A shame the last Delphyne proto in Scorpion hands got destroyed....that thing belong in a museum.
The Protomechs may now be history in the Scorpion Empire but they will be remembered for their last stand instead of rusting in a corner.
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The Protomechs may now be history in the Scorpion Empire but they will be remembered for their last stand instead of rusting in a corner.
That was the idea.
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Interesting to me is the battle between Empire forces and Diamond Sharks on the deep periphery world of Wark around December 3098. Wark is about 150 light years from the Chainlaine Isles and about 700 light years from the Empire at the time (pre-Hanseatic Crusade).
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That was the idea.
They got a statue ;)
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Now we know why.
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something I have been wondering. Where did the scorpions get hargel while they are cut of from the two known sources of the stuff?
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something I have been wondering. Where did the scorpions get hargel while they are cut of from the two known sources of the stuff?
Artificial breeding...
"The naturally occurring substance is a jelly-like liquid that can quickly be hardened to withstand the stress of vacuum."
There is also a synthetic replacement for HarJel...
TT
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Breeding? Also wasn't the synthetic Harjel a deadend?
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Breeding?
It's just space clam snot... mucus really, if you look at it. Unkown Homeworld origins, Tywcross's Jonah's Reach and the Homeworld's synthetic replacement.
Also wasn't the synthetic Harjel a deadend?
Nope. Still being produced in limited amounts.
TT
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Played my Scorpion Empire at the AdeptiCon BTCC Alpha Strike tournament...
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/alpha-strike-101/adepticon-battletech-championship-circuit-alpha-strike-aar/ (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/alpha-strike-101/adepticon-battletech-championship-circuit-alpha-strike-aar/)
TLDR: Scorpions beat on Davions, Kuritans, Falcons, and Ravens...
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One thing I'm liking about this faction is there's some classic mechs that are just unavailable anywhere else by the ilClan era.
So I got a spare Warhawk and a spare Crockett. I'll paint something up, a mixed IS/Clan star!
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If there's any mech that needed a C variant, the Crockett is it. Even just a 1 for 1 swap is a pretty scary machne...
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What're some fun star ideas for the Scorpion Empire based on what they can use? Looking for inspiration. Just like silly mixes of units because they use whatever they can get their hands on.
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I disagree that "they use whatever they can get their hands on."
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I disagree that "they use whatever they can get their hands on."
Why's that? I'm genuinely curious about what they wouldn't consider using. Or am I misunderstanding what you said.
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They aren't scavengers or desperate pirates. They have multiple factory worlds. They build what they need, and in a few select cases (Seekers), what they want.
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Yeah, that's true post-Crusade... not so much pre-Crusade, though, and that's a much lengthier timeframe to take into consideration.
(Sidenote: I miss the original iteration of the Scorpion Empire so much. The ramshackle nature of things and all of the intrigues and competing forces that threatened the stability of the realm made the region so much more interesting. Here's hoping their bland little utopia gets the Dominions Divided treatment at some point.)
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Ah ok that makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the clarification!
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Admittedly I enjoy the heck out of the Empire l, even if I go a little off-MUL and make it a haven for second line Clan and upgraded IS designs (at least until the WoB mechs come to plastic).
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At some point, i get what Tassa_kay and LordTree mean. By the time the Scorps settleted in the castillan worlds, they had to use whatever thing they could, as their industrial base was not totally established yet. But as Doc says, by the IlClan era (and even by the Hanseatic Crusade i think) they already have a established military industrial complex strong enough to support their touman.
Altough, as the minutia-obssesed nerd that i am, i am interested in that part about the Seekers getting "what they want".
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(Sidenote: I miss the original iteration of the Scorpion Empire so much. The ramshackle nature of things and all of the intrigues and competing forces that threatened the stability of the realm made the region so much more interesting. Here's hoping their bland little utopia gets the Dominions Divided treatment at some point.)
Seconded, thirded, numbered as high as needed to go.
SO. MUCH. THIS.
The Scorpions had so much potential for fun coming out of ISP3, with only the hideous name marring things. Much of what has happened since has been an immense letdown, with a few exceptions such as the Rhino, EC units, and the upgraded Blakist machines. Those are interesting.
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Seconded, thirded, numbered as high as needed to go.
SO. MUCH. THIS.
The Scorpions had so much potential for fun coming out of ISP3, with only the hideous name marring things. Much of what has happened since has been an immense letdown, with a few exceptions such as the Rhino, EC units, and the upgraded Blakist machines. Those are interesting.
I get the appeal of the early Empire and it's improvised Touman. It's fun to have primitive Mechs, Protos, Clan and WoB machines all in the same force. But from a story point, it's almost necessary that the Scorpions have advanced beyond this. At least if the faction is to survive for some time. It's similar to the Mad Max feeling of the 3rd SW. It's fun, but things will have to improve for the story to continue. Otherwise, it would be hard to justify the Scorpions surviving coming in contact with the Sharks, for example. If they failed to integrate with the local population or improve and expand the industry as rapidly as Clans can, they would set them up to end like the Jaguars.
Personally, I'll look for the second-line / freebirth formations to justify anachronistic force compositions. With all the new territory the Scorpions have to keep, they can hardly justify phasing out their older or salvaged equipment, when it can serve well enough in a garrison unit. Out in the Deep Periphery, even a bunch of armed industrial Mechs can be enough to keep the people in line and pirates off your lawn.
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I'm fine with the 2nd line stuff being interesting, while the front line units go all boring "Oh look we're indistinguishable from a 3050s invading Clan". Just let us keep the 2nd line stuff.
But from a story point, it's almost necessary that the Scorpions have advanced beyond this. At least if the faction is to survive for some time.
It really isn't. That's the cool thing about fiction, the developers can send it in any direction they choose. They literally control every facet of the universe. Homogenizing the Scorpions and stripping their character out was a choice, and then we've been given excuses for it after the fact. They could just as easily chosen to retain the mixed tech and combined arms feel and then written in reasons for it. They chose to do things the way they did.
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with only the hideous name marring things.
Literally all TPTB had to do was flip the name around (Imperio Escorpión) and it would've made perfect sense, as Imperio Español was the Spanish-language name of that real-world polity. I liked that name, too... it was flavorful and memorable. Even the formal name of the touman at that time, Imperio Militar del Escorpión, was awesome.
To be fair, there are things about the current Scorpion Empire that I really enjoy, like the Rhino (I am eagerly awaiting actual artwork for that pushy little beast!), their MilitiaMechs, their revamped Blakist designs, new commands like Seeker Galaxy and Grunt Galaxy, the addition of new ranks/positions with reKhans and zarKhans, the addition of new castes, incorporating new Bloodnames from the local populace, etc. So I'm not dogging them to be a hater here; I wouldn't be posting in the fan thread if I didn't like 'em.
But the loss of Protos from one of the three active factions that uses them stings, and it felt like they went out of their way to remove them instead of finding a way to justify keeping them around (which wouldn't have been difficult). Even the reasoning seems a bit questionable to me: Spotlight on Hellion Keshik says it's because they take up considerable resources, they're too narrowly-specialized and designed for subpar pilots... yet the dirt-poor Blood Spirits were cranking them out like there was no tomorrow and the Spirits and Cobras created a whole phenotype for them that the Scorpions could've easily had their hands on. Even without the phenotype, they have the population of almost fifty worlds to draw "subpar pilots" from.
I also didn't particularly enjoy seeing yet another example of the two-party factionalization trope (Imperials vs Preservers in this case) that BattleTech is so fond of thrusting on the Clans in lieu of something more nuanced, especially given the fact that there are three separate population bases within the Empire, all of which have ugly histories with each other... where's the internal strife there?!
Almost all of their internal and external (the Homeworld Clans were literally scouting out staging worlds for an invasion in the 3080s and we've not heard so much as a mention of them since despite being the #1 threat to the Empire; the Scorps were able to just eliminate all of the Watch agents embedded in their realm and that was that) conflicts and struggles that made the region so juicy and interesting in ISP3 are gone, and now the Scorps are on an unbroken winning streak and have no credible threats to their realm, which to me drastically reduces their appeal.
It really isn't. That's the cool thing about fiction, the developers can send it in any direction they choose. They literally control every facet of the universe. Homogenizing the Scorpions and stripping their character out was a choice, and then we've been given excuses for it after the fact. They could just as easily chosen to retain the mixed tech and combined arms feel and then written in reasons for it. They chose to do things the way they did.
THIS. This right here. "Homogenizing the Scorpions and stripping their character out" is exactly how I feel when I look at them now. Hell, I haven't even seen necrosia mentioned once since WoR; imagine the impact that a mind-altering drug with official government sanction could've had on the black market amongst the non-Clan population! Do they even "dance the scars" anymore?
The whole thing just feels like a Great Value brand retread of the RasDom's story now, and it's not a good look. It all feels very... fanfiction-y, for lack of a better term.
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IMHO there is a missing link from the humble beginning to the actual Periphery powerhouse.
How they have achieved this, what problems they had to overcome, which adverseries they had to defeat and how they did this.
More details about this transistion era would be very appreciated.
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IMHO there is a missing link from the humble beginning to the actual Periphery powerhouse.
How they have achieved this, what problems they had to overcome, which adverseries they had to defeat and how they did this.
More details about this transistion era would be very appreciated.
There's no missing link. Literally all of this has already been provided in various products.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Scorpion_Empire
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Tassa, get out of my head! ;D
How I loved the dumpster fire that the Imperio was in ISP3, and the way it was depicted. The natives were restless, the Touman was in shambles and fielding whatever it could (those glorious ISP3 RATs tho), everything was precarious with so little there for the Scorpions to use and so little making the hasty journey from Clan Space with the Cobras on their heels, and the specter of the Homeworlds loomed large. The Clan was out in force, trying to project an air or normalcy that no longer existed for any of them, and the Castillians and Umayyads were pushing back. The first line in the GM section was literally "life in the newly formed Escorpión Imperio is tumultuous on the best of days." It was one of the best damn playgrounds in the pre-3145 days. Now that the Hansa are down and out, there is nothing going on in that region.
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Tassa, get out of my head! ;D
Sorry, can't do it, it's rent-free! ;D
How I loved the dumpster fire that the Imperio was in ISP3, and the way it was depicted. The natives were restless, the Touman was in shambles and fielding whatever it could (those glorious ISP3 RATs tho), everything was precarious with so little there for the Scorpions to use and so little making the hasty journey from Clan Space with the Cobras on their heels, and the specter of the Homeworlds loomed large. The Clan was out in force, trying to project an air or normalcy that no longer existed for any of them, and the Castillians and Umayyads were pushing back. The first line in the GM section was literally "life in the newly formed Escorpión Imperio is tumultuous on the best of days." It was one of the best damn playgrounds in the pre-3145 days. Now that the Hansa are down and out, there is nothing going on in that region.
You said a mouthful, sir. The ISP3 Imperio was so good and easily the best part of an already-excellent book. It just screamed "please set your tabletop/RPG campaigns here!" with everything that was going on, but now? Now it's just the RasDom Without The RasDom's Problems and I couldn't be more bored.
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I wpuld argue that sinc the newer books only show us a small slice of the empire, much of it just the foreward edge of the spear in taking the Hansa, that a lot of the ISP3 depiction might still be present. That we're just seeing the layer of gilt on the surface of the Potemkin village that is the public face of the Empire, which still is a smoldering dumpster fire underneath.
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Or it’s just a big tent with room for a variety of preferences within it — which is how I like my Empires ;)
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I wpuld argue that sinc the newer books only show us a small slice of the empire, much of it just the foreward edge of the spear in taking the Hansa, that a lot of the ISP3 depiction might still be present. That we're just seeing the layer of gilt on the surface of the Potemkin village that is the public face of the Empire, which still is a smoldering dumpster fire underneath.
OTP: Hanseatic Crusade gave a pretty complete picture. The insurgency and troubles in WoR:S and ISP3 took a very long time for the Empire to solve before they could focus on the Crusade.
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I doubt it would have been realistic given the real-world constraints involved, but I might have preferred if the Hanseatic Crusade had been presented more gradually over time, rather than all at once.
Say, if the first look at the invasion had covered the first and/or second waves only, with a pause (allowing players to try and fight out some of the battles being portrayed for themselves) before a follow-on volume, or volumes, each overed the next wave or two.
Yes, it could have still ended with the fall of the Hansa and the rise of the Scorpion Empire... or, depending on the reaction to the earlier volumes, perhaps the war might have dragged on for a few more years, or even reached a stalemate of sorts.
And given the steady stream of Shrapnel issues and separate fiction e-publications being uploaded at present, it would have been been more welcome to have had the Hanseatic Crusade play out in story fiction, in parallel to the "sourcebook" side of the equation.
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But rather than dwell on that for too much longer, I'd like to see more sourcebook material - and more story fiction - build on what we do have for the Empire going forward.
I'd still welcome some fiction written to cover the Hanseatic Crusade itself. But the most recent events of Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik would also do with some dramatization - as might the long-range "shopping trip" to Solaris VII...
And while the Scorpions now have a holding in the Chaine Cluster - technically making them an "on-map" Inner Sphere and near Periphery presence for the first time - I still would like to see them turn to the Rim Territories as the focus for a future invasion. One which, unlike what happened to the Hansa, need not be covered all at once: let them strike only one or two worlds at a time, making the "Rift Worlds Crusade" a process rather than an event.
And if we ever hear more from the Clan Homeworlds, a more gradual approach to a would-be campaign in the Rim Territories would keep the bulk of the Empire's touman back in the Empire proper, where it would be most needed.
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On a side note: I might have also mentioned this in the past, but perhaps we might not end up seeing the four remaining Home Clans all at once, if we ever do see any of them at all.
As hinted at in Campaign Operations, there'd be plenty of grounds for picturing Clan Coyote fleeing the Homeworlds and showing up on the Scorpions' front porch. Would the Coyotes seek to seize a portion of the Empire for themselves - or might both Clans join forces in the face of a Star Adder-led Act of Aggression?
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I still would like to see them turn to the Rim Territories as the focus for a future invasion.
Why there?
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Why there?
A few reasons.
As shown on the Deep Periphery maps in ISP3, the distance from the nearest edge of the former Hanseatic League to the Rim Territories is broadly comparable to that from the post-Crusade Empire proper to their new holding in the Chainelane Isles. Indeed, both distances are comparable to that between the worlds farthest apart within the Empire itself.
Plus, while the Chainelane Isles (outside of the Chaine Cluster) are under the de facto suzerainty of Clan Sea Fox, the Rim Territories are a "pirate" faction with no House or Clan affiliation. So an "anti-pirate" campaign by the Scorpions there would not trigger a broader reaction from any of the more powerful realms in the area.
Or to put it another way: as shown in Tamar Rising, the Lyran Commonwealth has more than enough on its plate as it stands, whereas the Hinterland states (and Clan Hell's Horses) have issues of their own to confront. So by the time anyone noticed the Scorpions establishing a foothold (or would that be a pincer-hold?) in the Rim Territories, it might well appear to be a fait accompli.
But to take a more long-term view: the Scorpions have functioning HPGs, and are already building an HPG link from the Empire proper to the Chaine Cluster. Regardless of whether the Sea Foxes succeed in getting the Inner Sphere and near Periphery network up and running by themselves or not, it is critical for the Scorpions to establish and secure lines of communication - ones which are as little beholden to the Sea Foxes as possible. (Consider this: if the REVIVAL-era Invading Cans ran HPG routes all the way back to Strana Mechty, it would not be entirely out of the bounds of possibility to run a line from Braunschweig all the way to Terra.) So it would be prudent to face the myriad challenges of the IlClan Era by running two parallel HPG routes, rather than putting all of their eggs in a Sea Fox-adjacent basket.
And finally: even with the rise of the zarKhan, there is still a need for an outlet through which to channel the more aggressive elements within the Scorpion touman. Rather than risk the internal stability of the Empire proper, why not send them to the Rim Territories instead?
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I wpuld argue that sinc the newer books only show us a small slice of the empire, much of it just the foreward edge of the spear in taking the Hansa, that a lot of the ISP3 depiction might still be present. That we're just seeing the layer of gilt on the surface of the Potemkin village that is the public face of the Empire, which still is a smoldering dumpster fire underneath.
Unfortunately, that doesn't appear to be the case at all. Between the Touring the Stars PDFs, Spotlight on Hellion Keshik, "Moving Forward", etc., the Scorpions have more or less addressed all of their societal woes pretty comprehensively. By the time "Moving Forward" takes place, the only real internal division we see is the Imperial/Preserver split (do the Clans only understand political binaries, or is the writing simply that lazy?), and even that felt very one-and-done.
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The Clans are really a binary people. And let's be honest here, reality isn't all that different in that regard.
But you can assume there are preservers and imperials in all shapes and sizes, so there might be some gray areas. Also, the preservers are not done. They have been severely weakened, but they are still around. Remember: when you back a dog into a corner, it will attack.
And no, I have absolutely no clue how things will progress from here. That is totally in Geoff's hands and not in mine.
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The Clans are really a binary people.
Because writers continue to lean on this lazy trope instead of presenting something with nuance.
And let's be honest here, reality isn't all that different in that regard.
Reality is absolutely different in that regard.
The Scorpion Empire is home to not one, not two, not three, but six different internal bodies of people (Scorpions, Hellions, ELH descendants, Castilians, Umayyads and Hansa), some of whom have some serious beef with each other, and the best we can do for them is just slap another patented Clan binary-choice political division on them and call it a day? This is exactly the sort of characterization-erasing treatment that's made the Scorpion Empire so bland and uninteresting, IMO; Dominions Divided, for all of its storytelling flaws, at least made the effort to make it more complex than a simple "Joiners versus Deniers" divide.
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The Scorpion Empire is home to not one, not two, not three, but six different internal bodies of people (Scorpions, Hellions, ELH descendants, Castilians, Umayyads and Hansa)
Are there still "ELH descendants". IIRC, most, if not all, died in the HW. Their genetic heritage still lives, but dont think you have actual people there, maybe some freebirth here and there that come from some dependants absorved and that somehow survived all the WoR and moving. The Umayyads and Castillians seems to have adapted well, mostly from the "caudillo" culture they had that goes well with the Clan Culture, or the Umayyads just taking some medium class caste positions. Assimilating the Hansa, specially the merchants, will be a challenge, the serf seem to look the clan caste system as a social upgrade. And you know your social system is crappy when that happens.
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The Scorpions began using ELH genes in their breeding program before the Wars of Reaving. (That's why they were abjured.) These were the basis for the ELH Bloodhouses that have since been founded. They had more than the people they took in Trials of Possession. They also had the remains of those who did not survive the trial... (And those who might not have survived Operation Serpent...)
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I choose to believe that Charles Greely is simply immortal and continues to serve to this day in the Touman in his Wasp.
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The Scorpions began using ELH genes in their breeding program before the Wars of Reaving. (That's why they were abjured.) These were the basis for the ELH Bloodhouses that have since been founded. They had more than the people they took in Trials of Possession. They also had the remains of those who did not survive the trial... (And those who might not have survived Operation Serpent...)
And unlike other mercenary companies (or anyone) absorbed by the Clans the ELH and their descendants were probably encouraged (or at least not discouraged) to keep their identity.
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And unlike other mercenary companies (or anyone) absorbed by the Clans the ELH and their descendants were probably encouraged (or at least not discouraged) to keep their identity.
That's what I assumed given that their descendants as a group were given a mention in the Crusade OTP. They seemed significant enough to mention even so long after they were originally Absorbed.
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The Scorpions began using ELH genes in their breeding program before the Wars of Reaving. (That's why they were abjured.) These were the basis for the ELH Bloodhouses that have since been founded. They had more than the people they took in Trials of Possession. They also had the remains of those who did not survive the trial... (And those who might not have survived Operation Serpent...)
One really stands out from Serpent. Long live Bloodhouse Winston!
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I choose to believe that Charles Greely is simply immortal and continues to serve to this day in the Touman in his Wasp.
They better give him a whole verse in the remembrance. Fighting for 70 years in the same Wasp, through Huntress and the Wars of Reaving, no less. What a legend.
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Are there still "ELH descendants". IIRC, most, if not all, died in the HW.
That was the third battalion, IIRC. It was wiped out for story reasons, of course.
But unofficially, real life reasons linked to a court case about a certain now unnamed person who claimed the entire ELH as their IP after writing the third battalion into existence. That one may no longer claim anything of the like since their creation was destroyed as per WoR and Khan Suvorov announcing to the Grand Council that they had died to a man and that their genetics had failed to be up to standard.
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Well, given that the ELH was called out by name in OTP: Hanseatic Crusade, and the fact that their genetics are actually in the Scorpions' program and actively being used to breed trueborns, I have to wonder how accurate that was/is now.
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Very true - new development team in place now, and more new writers.
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Well, given that the ELH was called out by name in OTP: Hanseatic Crusade, and the fact that their genetics are actually in the Scorpions' program and actively being used to breed trueborns, I have to wonder how accurate that was/is now.
I bet 50 c-bills the Scorpions told the truth when saying they did not put in the members of the ELH into breeding program. Their genetics were added after the Scorpions were kicked out of the Homeworld Clans realizing the “true taint” was coming from the Clans not the Inner Spehre.
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I bet 50 c-bills the Scorpions told the truth when saying they did not put in the members of the ELH into breeding program. Their genetics were added after the Scorpions were kicked out of the Homeworld Clans realizing the “true taint” was coming from the Clans not the Inner Spehre.
I think the implications of the Cloud Cobras finding the Scorpion research station in the WoR, a station that had been using ELH genetics, are that it had been going on for some time.
But I have ALWAYS said and still agree with what you are saying - the real point of the Wars of Reaving is that all the Home Clans are just as tainted and corrupt as any other Clan they pointed their grubby fingers at - up to and including the Vipers.
EDIT
Also, in the WoR, Khan Suvorov specifically says it was the ELH third battalion warriors who had all died and their genes had proven to not be of use.
This clearly implies that any survivors of first and second battalions are fair game still. And as mentioned previously, the honored dead from the fighting on Huntress during Operation Serpent.
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Well, given that the ELH was called out by name in OTP: Hanseatic Crusade, and the fact that their genetics are actually in the Scorpions' program and actively being used to breed trueborns, I have to wonder how accurate that was/is now.
I firmly believe that, if needed, a writer can hand wave it away with a "well, they've already tested down so they don't count" kinda of statement (which is totally accurate, from a certain point of view. ;-) hahaha
Khan Suvorov was a Khan since before the CI: if CGL ever needs to clear this up, her outwitting some johnny-come-lately by very specific word choices or what not is perfectly in character and a super easy detail to write in.
just my thoughts :-)
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I firmly believe that, if needed, a writer can hand wave it away with a "well, they've already tested down so they don't count" kinda of statement (which is totally accurate, from a certain point of view. ;-) hahaha
Khan Suvorov was a Khan since before the CI: if CGL ever needs to clear this up, her outwitting some johnny-come-lately by very specific word choices or what not is perfectly in character and a super easy detail to write in.
just my thoughts :-)
Not to mention, Suvorov is an aerospace warrior, to survive that long to become Khan and then hold the position so long in a phenotype that doesn't see much longevity says something to her skill and cunning.
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Not to mention, Suvorov is an aerospace warrior, to survive that long to become Khan and then hold the position so long in a phenotype that doesn't see much longevity says something to her skill and cunning.
As an aside, do Clan aerospace pilots really have that much higher of a mortality rate than other Clan warriors? I'd think it would be the exact opposite, since aerospace forces are often the first to be bid away and with safcon/hegira being a thing as well.
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I want to see how his Wasp was "upgraded" over the years...
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As an aside, do Clan aerospace pilots really have that much higher of a mortality rate than other Clan warriors? I'd think it would be the exact opposite, since aerospace forces are often the first to be bid away and with safcon/hegira being a thing as well.
I wouldn't say that much of a difference specifically for Clan pilots, but aerospace fighters in general don't seem to be very survivable when shot down, at least compared to shooting the leg off a 'Mech, disabling the engine/gyro, or evena Mechwarrior punching out after an ammo explosion
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(https://camospecs.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/SE-Scorpion-Keshik-Warhawk-2.jpg)
Lovely work from God&Davion on the Scorpion Keshik camo scheme.
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I wouldn't say that much of a difference specifically for Clan pilots, but aerospace fighters in general don't seem to be very survivable when shot down, at least compared to shooting the leg off a 'Mech, disabling the engine/gyro, or evena Mechwarrior punching out after an ammo explosion
Plus I'd imgine that any aeropilot forced to fight unaugmented due to losing the coin tosses in a trial would have a pretty short career and lfespan.
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The Goliath Scorpions' predilection for fighting with knives might help to even out that disparity...but only to a point.
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...but only to a point.
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/03/79/36/0379362c94ad48c7d26d38cdcd919a4f.jpg)
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My take on an Omega Galaxy Star. Much like the description of the unit in general, this Star is a mix of Inner Sphere and Clan units, possessing a mix of Star League and ClanTech mechs. 100% master list legal for the late Dark Age and IlClan era.
(https://i.postimg.cc/yNKLpLnL/PXL-20230405-031729654-MP.jpg)
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Look nice.
Similarly, kudos to God & Davion, I think that's the first time I've thought Scorpion Keshik colors looked any good.
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Hurrah for getting Scorpion Empire swag in the Mercenaries Kickstarter!
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Only if we get to 8 million, there's not much time left. But we can look forward to it in future kickstarters probably.
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Only if we get to 8 million, there's not much time left. But we can look forward to it in future kickstarters probably.
They announced all the 8m goals would be unlocked to purchase in the pledge manager, we just aren't getting any of the free stretch goals. So we won't have to wait as the scorpion empire swag is coming.
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I am debating adding a scorpion binary to my list of units. Although that might also mean I need another IS based periphery faction to balance it out. The pledge manager needs to open so I can fully update my spreadsheet.
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Another doubt about cammo: What do you think its an appropiate cammo for the Grunt Galaxy/PGCS both pre and post Hanseatic Crusade? Something like "generic/appropiate cammo" or something else?
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Another doubt about cammo: What do you think its an appropiate cammo for the Grunt Galaxy/PGCS both pre and post Hanseatic Crusade? Something like "generic/appropiate cammo" or something else?
Generic camo is never wrong, imho. You could even combine different camo schemes in the same unit, to represent an ad-hoc cluster that has been drawn from several different garrison units. Or you go the opposite route and take inspiration from modern british police cars, emphasizing high visibility for garrison work. Something that lets the locals know THE LAW is here. Would make it easier for the grunts to differentiate between friend and foe during a pirate raid. Just should the ones in the edgy black paint scheme. ;D
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You could even combine different camo schemes in the same unit, to represent an ad-hoc cluster that has been drawn from several different garrison units.
This is exactly what I imagined Grunt Galaxy's camo scheme to be. Which makes sense, since the Galaxy was only raised for the Hanseatic Crusade and was not intended to be a permanent formation.
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Another doubt about cammo: What do you think its an appropiate cammo for the Grunt Galaxy/PGCS both pre and post Hanseatic Crusade? Something like "generic/appropiate cammo" or something else?
I think that might be the case for other Clans, but a number of native, freeborn warriors might only make it into the warrior caste for such units. Instead of feeling shame, I think they would be proud of their accomplishment. Thus, I think they would proudly display their colors. I think they might even eschew camo as beneath them. They would rather fight in the open and hope to prove themselves worthy of a trial for a non-garrison command. I have not detailed any specific color schemes, but that's my thinking at the moment. The Empire would not want any of its warriors to feel lesser or looked down upon. They are still part of the Clan and thus of the highest caste. (Contrast this with "Dying Breed," in which the last ProtoMech pilot was assigned to a garrison Cluster because of obsolescence. She felt shame and sought to prove herself one last time. To a trueborn like her, it was an insult. That would not be the case for those who were raised in the Empire.)
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Now all I see with PGC stars are Transformer (classic of course), Reboot, and X-men coloured characters. :D
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I think that might be the case for other Clans, but a number of native, freeborn warriors might only make it into the warrior caste for such units. Instead of feeling shame, I think they would be proud of their accomplishment. Thus, I think they would proudly display their colors. I think they might even eschew camo as beneath them. They would rather fight in the open and hope to prove themselves worthy of a trial for a non-garrison command. I have not detailed any specific color schemes, but that's my thinking at the moment. The Empire would not want any of its warriors to feel lesser or looked down upon. They are still part of the Clan and thus of the highest caste. (Contrast this with "Dying Breed," in which the last ProtoMech pilot was assigned to a garrison Cluster because of obsolescence. She felt shame and sought to prove herself one last time. To a trueborn like her, it was an insult. That would not be the case for those who were raised in the Empire.)
Would the Scorps to allow old Castillan/Umayyad camo schemes in these PGCs?
(https://camospecs.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/fanjoy_castilian-trebuchet.jpg?166752&166752)(https://camospecs.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/fanjoyumayyadorion.jpg?166752&166752)
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Perhaps but not so direct and overt. Consider: by the time they allowed in natives in sufficient number, those personnel likely would not have ties to those particular patterns, if they even knew of them at all. In other words: possibly, but not probably.
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My plan is to have a single mech in my Omega Star in such colors while the rest use the standard scheme, an honor that pilot has earned.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, does anyone know of a crime a warrior might commit that would require a temporary mark of great shame, but not justify pulling them from combat duty or transferring to a lesser unit? I've got a Fire Scorpion where I accidentally put the Clan emblem on upside down, and I don't want to redo it. My best idea was that they were the cause of great waste, such as taking part in a Seeker Quest, but through mistake or negligence their actions caused the destruction of the objective artifact.
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Frivolous use of Necrosia.
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Assuming necrosia is even around anymore since the Great Scorpion Homogenization.
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Mislabeling a Star league artifact as a knockoff.
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On the opposite end of the spectrum, does anyone know of a crime a warrior might commit that would require a temporary mark of great shame, but not justify pulling them from combat duty or transferring to a lesser unit? I've got a Fire Scorpion where I accidentally put the Clan emblem on upside down, and I don't want to redo it. My best idea was that they were the cause of great waste, such as taking part in a Seeker Quest, but through mistake or negligence their actions caused the destruction of the objective artifact.
Honestly, I think your idea is fantastic as it is. That's a perfect reason to slap a black mark on a warrior without demoting him, and it feels very Scorpion, like the equivalent of a Hell's Horses team earning the Mark of Hell for screwing up a Branding.
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If said warrior caused the destruction of a coveted SL artifact, I could see the "Mark of Shame" being permanent. As well as a call for some type of trial of cleansing to make the offender prove he or she still belongs among the warriors.
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As well as a call for some type of trial of cleansing to make the offender prove he or she still belongs among the warriors.
Another great idea, especially given how in vogue this notion seems to be with the Homeworld Clans post-WoR (Coyotes, Lions).
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Right! The more you hate an enemy, the more you become like them, as is often the case. BT is often a case study in how we are our own worst enemies, and this would be one more log on that raging bonfire.
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If said warrior caused the destruction of a coveted SL artifact, I could see the "Mark of Shame" being permanent. As well as a call for some type of trial of cleansing to make the offender prove he or she still belongs among the warriors.
I would suggest labeling four more mechs upside down to create a Star of Shame. No permanent pilots instead it is a Star where those who seek redemption in their past deeds. Solhama or suicidal need not apply.
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On the opposite end of the spectrum, does anyone know of a crime a warrior might commit that would require a temporary mark of great shame, but not justify pulling them from combat duty or transferring to a lesser unit? I've got a Fire Scorpion where I accidentally put the Clan emblem on upside down, and I don't want to redo it. My best idea was that they were the cause of great waste, such as taking part in a Seeker Quest, but through mistake or negligence their actions caused the destruction of the objective artifact.
Instead of destruction of an artifact, perhaps the Warrior was negligent and allowed it to be lost again. Say some pirates beat the Scorps to a site and took what they were after. They split into two groups to escape (one of transports and one of 'Mechs), and rather than stay on-mission, your Warrior chases glory and runs down the 'Mechs first and loses the transports. That I think would warrant punishment but definitely a chance to redeem one's self, maybe even a 'This-is-your-last-chance' kinda deal.
For some reason, your idea also reminds me of the novel where Aidan Pryde killed some fool in a Circle of Equals and his commander made him wear a picture of said dead fool on his chest for a while.
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For some reason, your idea also reminds me of the novel where Aidan Pryde killed some fool in a Circle of Equals and his commander made him wear a picture of said dead fool on his chest for a while.
It's been ages since I read the Jade Phoenix trilogy, that is *exactly* the kind of feel I'm looking for. :thumbsup:
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For some reason, your idea also reminds me of the novel where Aidan Pryde killed some fool in a Circle of Equals and his commander made him wear a picture of said dead fool on his chest for a while.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Surkai
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Great to finally be here
But first things first:
I would like to extend colossal gratitude to Doc Swift for his amazing work on Goliath Scorpions
He took this tiny background group and turned them into one of the most interesting factions not only in BattleTech but in fiction overall
He also managed to hit just the right balance between likeability and douchiness, this perfect blend should be the template for all factions in this franchise
I've been BattleTech and MechWarrior fan for a long time but was never able to really gel with any of the usual factions (both IS or Clans) but when people started talking about these new guys who decided to ditch everything and do their own thing I was hooked again after almost 20 years
And it's not just me, there's loads of us out there and I'm sure you guys noticed the surge in Scorpion painted minis both online and on gaming tables
Best of all everything he wrote lines up perfectly with every single piece of lore that came before all the way back to the first mention of Scorpions decades ago, no need for updates and retcons here because it all fits like Legos, stellar job on research
Me and so many other folks can't wait to see what Doc comes up with next :bow:
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:)
Wow. Thanks. Seriously, that made my day.
(I'm having an awesome week! Heard yesterday that a BT novella I wrote will be published and now this? Something terrible is about to happen, I'm sure, but I'm gonna appreciate this for a while.)
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Any idea how the sibko caretakers and cadets are/were called in the Clan Goliath Scorpion?
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Any idea how the sibko caretakers and cadets are/were called in the Clan Goliath Scorpion?
Never been mentioned in any product that I've come across.
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Never been mentioned in any product that I've come across.
I thought of a cool term but then I decided not to say it so it might see a better chance of being used in something upcoming...
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Ummm, by the time of FM:WC, it appaears it just was "Instructor" and "Cadets" (page 110).
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Ummm, by the time of FM:WC, it appaears it just was "Instructor" and "Cadets" (page 110).
Seems vanilla at first but it fits with their characterization
Despite their trademark weirdness Scorpions are the most dedicated of all Clans to their SLDF roots and it makes perfect sense that they would keep a lot of the old names
And I did come up with pretty cool names for them too but since saying it out loud eliminates it from potential use I will also keep it to myself just in case (unless there is some anonymous tip-line to ''report'' such ideas to writers? ^-^ )
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Despite their trademark weirdness Scorpions are the most dedicated of all Clans to their SLDF roots and it makes perfect sense that they would keep a lot of the old names
I dunno, I think the Adders kinda have them beat there.
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I dunno, I think the Adders kinda have them beat there.
Could be, could be
Still, its a good company to be in on this topic :thumbsup:
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Something I've noticed while going over MUL are various designs which started appearing again in Scorpion military (and nowhere else) after being extinct for very long time
I'd say that they have been sending back in production various models which they deemed rugged enough, cost effective and easy to build, even ones which they haven't been using extensively or at all, namely:
Naja: extinct for century, not used by Scorpions for two centuries, back in use by Scorpions in 3101 or later
Spartan-C: extinct alongside it's creators Fire Mandrills for century, never ever been used by Scorpions, back in use by Scorpions in 3101 or later (and it's the only place with Spartan of any kind in it's inventory)
Zephyr Hovertank EC: extinct for two centuries even before it's creators and, back then, only users ever Blood Spirits, back in use by Scorpions in 3062 or later
Seems like Scorpions were resurrecting platforms which they deemed to be appropriate for their new location and industrial base at the time, more precisely between their "militia-mech/reused local IS-grade production lines" phase and regaining full Clan tech ability prior to Crusade
Even after going back to Clan tech it would make sense to keep this production trickling in, both as backups and for export, Spartan for example was literally designed for Periphery by SLDF, it's just too good to abandon
In case of things like Zephyr they might be upgrades of vehicles they did have but I'm a bit skeptical there because when you are going on total exodus you will pack as many mechs as you can buy you will not be using up precious cargo space on vehicles
What I'm saying here is that every single vehicle in Scorpion military has been manufactured in Castilian Cluster post exodus
More specifically (and initially) for their garrison caste PGCs. Why? Because Clan vehicles are by design perfect for strictly defensive duties which garrison caste PGCs specialize in: cheap to build and maintain, available in large numbers, durable enough, pack a punch for their weight and are easy to use
Bigger and tougher stuff was added later of course for entire Imperio Militar (Demolisher, Mars, Cyrano, Athena, Ephona, etc...)
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I won't speak for the MUL folks, but when I was putting together the RATs for OTP: Hanseatic Crusade, I went with what made sense to me. For example: the Warhawk. It's too good a 'Mech not to build and use. Even so, though, I put it on 3 for one Galaxy and 12 for another, to indicate that it's somewhat rare even for them.
For the Empire, I see vehicles as a relatively simple and inexpensive way to deal with the opposition they expect. A Clan vehicle should be pretty damn effective against the 'Mechs that the League or pirates would throw at one of the Empire's worlds. Since they are simpler and faster to build than 'Mechs, those vehicles might have been among the first Clantech units built in the Empire, serving as a testbed for local weapons manufacturing (for example). Note that I didn't specify vehicle variants, so the Zephyr you mentioned was probably decided on by someone on the MUL, along with the Spartan-C.
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Spartan C also appeared in the IS during the Dark Age. I think the protagonist of the last Wolf Dragoons book use one.
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My Theory: The Hanseatic League and the Umayyids definitely had old SLDF stocks of mechs. That's why models like the Crockett and the Lancelot somehow show up in the ilClan era.
In my reading the Hanseatic League also had manufacturing capability, which the Scorpion Empire inherited. The planet Antwerp became the new home of Warhawk production. Could be possible there was pre-existing manufacturing of mechs done there as well. However, Bordello Arms, the former military supplier of the Hanseatic League, could best do basic designs like the Locust, Wasp, Phoenix Hawk, and a primitive Wolverine.
Imperial BattleMechs might be out best bet to figure out which deigns are being built, but they don't have an entry in Sarna yet.
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My Theory: The Hanseatic League and the Umayyids definitely had old SLDF stocks of mechs. That's why models like the Crockett and the Lancelot somehow show up in the ilClan era.
In my reading the Hanseatic League also had manufacturing capability, which the Scorpion Empire inherited. The planet Antwerp became the new home of Warhawk production. Could be possible there was pre-existing manufacturing of mechs done there as well. However, Bordello Arms, the former military supplier of the Hanseatic League, could best do basic designs like the Locust, Wasp, Phoenix Hawk, and a primitive Wolverine.
Imperial BattleMechs might be out best bet to figure out which deigns are being built, but they don't have an entry in Sarna yet.
Hanseatic Crusade makes it clear that the League had massively updated their production capabilities, advancing to pre-Jihad tech levels. Produced units include modern variants of: Thunderbolt, Awesome, Zeus (all Braunschweig) and Banshees and UrbanMechs (at Falsterbo). On Falsterbo Battlearmor like the Purifer and IS Standard are produced and the facility is rumored to have been built (or expanded) with the help of WoB refugees.
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Spartan C also appeared in the IS during the Dark Age. I think the protagonist of the last Wolf Dragoons book use one.
Oh definitely, I didn't mean to imply that there aren't any Spartans outside the Empire
This is BattleTech, you can find anything anywhere as usual
What I meant to say was that post-Jihad the only place where Spartans (plus Najas and maybe some other curiosities) are built is the Scorpion Empire
Spartan(s) that Dragoons use would be from the old Clan Homeworld stock built by Mandrills way back when
My Theory: The Hanseatic League and the Umayyids definitely had old SLDF stocks of mechs. That's why models like the Crockett and the Lancelot somehow show up in the ilClan era.
In my reading the Hanseatic League also had manufacturing capability, which the Scorpion Empire inherited. The planet Antwerp became the new home of Warhawk production. Could be possible there was pre-existing manufacturing of mechs done there as well. However, Bordello Arms, the former military supplier of the Hanseatic League, could best do basic designs like the Locust, Wasp, Phoenix Hawk, and a primitive Wolverine.
Imperial BattleMechs might be out best bet to figure out which deigns are being built, but they don't have an entry in Sarna yet.
Castilians and Umayyads each had primitive production lines for Wasp, Stinger, Shadow Hawk and Rifleman generously sold to them by Sea Foxes (how nice of them to sell identical products to opposing warring parties ;D )
Those would get upgraded later by the Scorpions and most likely diversified as time went on and those 4 mechs are very good foundation for making more advanced spin-offs and models like C and IIC versions to round up your military
Things like Crockett and Lancelot would either be brought from the Homeworlds or built anew in the Imperio later on, probably for Seekers like Doc mentioned a while back
As for Hansa, like Gorgon said, they had extensive military production built up during arms race with Imperio
They have been throwing everything and the kitchen sink at the military budget since Scorpions arrived (all bought from Lyrans) and it escalated to insane levels after Battle of Holdout, it ballooned so much it started altering the very fabric of their society
Imperial BattleMechs still doesn't have any official details in lore so there isn't anything to add to Sarna, same for Prosoma War Works (me and the guys are eagerly waiting for something to drop so we can get beavering away at it)
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Hanseatic Crusade makes it clear that the League had massively updated their production capabilities, advancing to pre-Jihad tech levels. Produced units include modern variants of: Thunderbolt, Awesome, Zeus (all Braunschweig) and Banshees and UrbanMechs (at Falsterbo). On Falsterbo Battlearmor like the Purifer and IS Standard are produced and the facility is rumored to have been built (or expanded) with the help of WoB refugees.
In addition, we know the Scorpions are also upgrading some civilian manufacturing plants for military purposes as well as creating new production lines.
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Are they bolstering their military capacity because their Clan or they paranoid of Home Clans coming to reclaim or smite their own?
Killing your civilian production can do bad things to your economy, however BattleTech doesn't necessary pay attention to that aspect of things If I'm not mistaken.
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They're still Clan Goliath Scorpion. The military takes precedence over everything else.
As for why they're building up? They had six Galaxies when they controlled sixteen worlds. Now they control more than 40. They don't plan to lose any of them, which means they need a bigger touman.
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or they paranoid of Home Clans coming to reclaim or smite their own?
That would require folks to remember the Home Clans still exist and were planning an invasion of the Hansa well before the Scorps did anything. The Home Clans should absolutely be the Scorps' #1 worry, not that you can tell by the post-WoR writing, and the moratorium on their usage is the only reason the Scorpion Empire even exists in its present form. It's easy to be the perfect Clan/non-Clan fusion state when you're kept in a narrative bubble and have no legitimate threats to your bland awesomeness.
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That would require folks to remember the Home Clans still exist and were planning an invasion of the Hansa well before the Scorps did anything. The Home Clans should absolutely be the Scorps' #1 worry, not that you can tell by the post-WoR writing, and the moratorium on their usage is the only reason the Scorpion Empire even exists in its present form. It's easy to be the perfect Clan/non-Clan fusion state when you're kept in a narrative bubble and have no legitimate threats to your bland awesomeness.
Nobody forgot that Home Clans still exist, neither Scorpions nor writers, which were getting mentioned as recently as RecGuides and latest TRO entries where it was clearly stated that Home Clans are, were and always will be Scorpions' No. 1 concern
What people do seem to forget is that they have always been one of more coherent and competent Clans albeit insular one starting from their very first description decades ago and that it was quite surprising that they even had so many problems with locals early on to begin with.
But most people just read ''drugs!!!'' and suddenly it has become core defining trait for fans while everything else gets ignored
Mineral extraction, industry, aquaculture, efficient society, freebirth input, competent touman, large garrison units composed of freebirths, effective and extensive intel gathering, etc... all forgotten. But hey, everyone knows about drugs!
In WoR Supplemental it was stated that Bastions who are absolutely dominant political current have been sending the very tiny fringe Aggressors into the region as way of sidelining the problematic personnel while they deal with matters of actual concern and that aforementioned problematic personnel only succeeded in fully, completely and humiliatingly failing at everything they intended to do other than throwing some Twitter shade at Umayyads which Seekers later cleared out with DNA testing
How long would Bastions (Star Adder Bastions of all people) tolerate these abject and costly failures before they pulled the plug and told them to get back in line?
Another thing people forget is that Scorpions were sentenced to abjuration not annihilation which involves packing their stuff and leaving which is exactly what they did. Homies will not be bending over backwards to charge into Imperio especially after Scorpions kicked out their dudes and figured out how to run the place at the turn of the century
Next often forgotten thing is that Home Clans now have proportionally huge territory to deal with themselves after Wars of Reaving, loads of planets and infrastructure that need fixing and that they also have more pressing issues to solve which would take precedence over pointless adventures in Deep Periphery and that not even worst Clan dogma would make Scorpions big enough issue especially when compared to much more ''tainted'' Clans which are now sitting right in the middle of the ''taint'' source
Cloud Cobras were unable to administer even the Tanite worlds, Scorpions solved this type of problem by making compromises with the locals which Homies would never under any circumstances agree to. This is also why Home Clan would stay out once Scorpions stabilized their nation, it had become impossible to neutralize Scorpions without going full mass genocide, again something which was stated in WoR Supplemental that dominant Bastions would want to avoid
Even with unanimous will to do it there was only <20 year window for classic quick Clan style invasion of Imperio and it closed about 3100, Clan was already fusing with locals, they were now looking at decades of guerilla campaign even if they win, the juice was no longer worth the squeeze and risks of disastrous failure grew exponentially for Homies
About Scorpons being ''perfect Clan/non-Clan fusion state' have we been reading the same material?
As much as I love Scorpion Empire they are by any measure extremely hardcore totalitarian military dictatorship which would put any real life thing and 50% of in-universe ones to shame, only difference being better amenities and wider selection of consumer goods and cable TV
Perfect Clan/non-Clan fusion state is still RasDom.
The best Clan administrators are still Hell's Horses but for some reason fandom is insistent on refusing to give them any credit for anything they ever accomplished be it civilian or military. Win invasion of every planet except one? Failure!!! Smoothly run an occupation zone, give locals leeway and keep them happy? Failure!!! Why? I have no clue....
Scorpions are still doing the very same thing they have been doing since forever and which they are very good at: sort out problems, bunker down, plan ahead and keep to yourself.
Home Clans also have their own things to do and fighting an identity-shredding costly and potentially disastrous genocidal holy war with a a Clan (of now billions of people) which isn't even slated for annihilation is not one of them. If it were writers would have left Coyotes or Cobras in charge instead of Adders.
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We'll just have to agree to disagree on pretty much all of that. I've certainly never seen "fans" saying any of that stuff.
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Regarding the Home Clans:
In fiction and sourcebooks, everyone has agreed both overtly (the Council of Six), and quietly to not speak of the Home Clans anymore.
This also translates as a moratorium, though officially that has never been said either.
The Home Clans are simply moot.
That is, until further notice at the developer's discretion.
I've probed about it myself, and I get no answers, just hints that speculating about the Homies' activities or possible return is a waste of time. A distraction *at best*.
But that's not the official line either! That's just me and what I've gathered.
I'd have to say if there is an official line encapsulating all of the above, it is simply Nothing. Silence.
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Yeah, we know about the moratorium. I just kinda wish it included all of the Home Clans, instead of the Scorpions getting what amounts to be the perfect fanfiction run (i.e., solving literally all of their problems and becoming the perfect fusion state, with only one serious conflict that had no stakes because the Scorps winning was never in doubt) for 60+ years of in-universe time while the rest of the Home Clans and their plotline of spying on and prepping to invade the Hansa were dropped completely. The lack of consistency is maddening, but I suppose it's inevitable with so many regime changes.
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Well Scorpions are not Home Clan otherwise they would have still been back home
And I would hardly call winning a single war half a century in the making in a wargame setting a perfect run
If it were one then what are we supposed to say about Bears who rofl-stomped Blakists once, Combine twice plus whatever unspeakable stuff they did to Cats ins quick succession? And rapid integration with locals in several years instead of 7 decades while coming out smelling like roses with first major political drama only now?
And not once did they get their Clan Council building blown to confetti by disgruntled locals
Plus they have bult dozens of cool new original mechs in between (and fighters and warships and super-dropships). For the record Scorpions are still only being given Wobbie leftovers, funky quads and militia mech spin-offs (which is fine by me but still, it needs to be kept in perspective)
This is not me dunking on Bears. Fact remains that closer you are to the center of the action (Terra) the more drama you will get but also perks as well (FWL just stitched itself back together no problem like it's nothing and is already flexing on Wolves)
Feds, Wolves or Bears? High drama, high perks
Scorpions, Canopus or Marians? Low drama, low perks
It's just how the setting works, location is everything
As for Scorpions winning not being in doubt, how so? Check old discussions, nobody could even tell for certain if they would survive the book about Crusade in one piece (if at all)
Jaguar defeat, Operation Serpent, Great Refusal, Jihad failure, Feds taking New Avalon, Wolves winning Terra, etc... these are the things that were never in doubt and were much more major events than some war in Deep Periphery
Home Clans doing mini-clan invasion with rapidly closing window while sitting on the ashes of Wars of Reaving is not prudent even by Clan standards. Maybe it is for Coyotes but Coyotes are not running the show and are lucky to be alive. Adders run the show and their gophers managed to lose a whole warship to Hansa, one of those rare warships they need to enforce that no-go zone around Homeworlds to protect from taint. At some point someone will start doing cost/benefit calculations
EDIT:
Great, I typed another text wall. I swear this sounds lot more concise in my head
(Got banned from Reddit this way, that and language)
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Well, instead of a text wall rebuttal where I parse out all of the stuff there that's either incorrect or a personal opinion, I'll just say that I stand by what I said and leave it at that. And for the record, it's not because I don't have a rebuttal, I just have zero interest in engaging in back-and-forth with a superfan. It's never worth it on these forums. Maybe next time, just don't respond to me, I won't be at all bothered or offended, lol.
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Any idea how the sibko caretakers and cadets are/were called in the Clan Goliath Scorpion?
The trainers have a name, per OTP: Hanseatic Crusade, p.19.
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The trainers have a name, per OTP: Hanseatic Crusade, p.19.
Thanks for the reference! Did you created the title or it was something set up by CGL? English is not my main language, so i maybe lost the meaning, but "wrangler" almost sounds more like a Hell Horses thing, isnt? :D
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I came up with it. It first came about as one who handles horses or cattle, but it has since come to mean one who handles animals, as in the film industry. In other words, you can have a horse wrangler, a cattle wrangler, a tarantula wrangler, a scorpion wrangler...
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Thankfully, there no handler for me. :D
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but "wrangler" almost sounds more like a Hell Horses thing, isnt? :D
It is a Hells Horses thing, actually, per "A Living Epitaph" from BattleCorps.
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After reading 26 pages of forum posts, I think I've been convinced that a) there are clearly some products I need to read/reread and b) building a Scorpion Empire force is definitely in my future.
I really must have glossed over their section in ISP3 (and I know I'm behind on Shrapnel) 'cause so many of these posts felt like totally new information to me.
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After reading 26 pages of forum posts, I think I've been convinced that a) there are clearly some products I need to read/reread and b) building a Scorpion Empire force is definitely in my future.
I really must have glossed over their section in ISP3 (and I know I'm behind on Shrapnel) 'cause so many of these posts felt like totally new information to me.
ISP3, Wars of Reaving, Wars of Reaving Supplemental, and Spotlight On: Crimson Seeker Star all have bits of info for the beginnings of the Scorpion Empire.
For the more modern eras of the Scorpion Empire you have Spotlight On: Schmidt's Petraries, Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik, Touring the Stars: Granada, TtS: Valencia, TtS: Braunschweig, Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade, "Dying Breed" in Shrapnel 12, "Moving Forward" in Shrapnel 6, and the Rec Guide entries for the Star Python (23), Star Crusader (23), and the Warhawk (20).
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Also the Locust IIC entry in RG16.
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The trainers have a name, per OTP: Hanseatic Crusade, p.19.
Can't believe I managed to miss this, it was sitting right there :-\
So I assume that cadets would be called Scorplings? Baby scorpions and all
They are using the name for their new small lasers already
ISP3, Wars of Reaving, Wars of Reaving Supplemental, and Spotlight On: Crimson Seeker Star all have bits of info for the beginnings of the Scorpion Empire.
For the more modern eras of the Scorpion Empire you have Spotlight On: Schmidt's Petraries, Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik, Touring the Stars: Granada, TtS: Valencia, TtS: Braunschweig, Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade, "Dying Breed" in Shrapnel 12, "Moving Forward" in Shrapnel 6, and the Rec Guide entries for the Star Python (23), Star Crusader (23), and the Warhawk (20).
''No Dust No Wear'' from book ''No Greater Honor'' is also really nice read that gives you insight into overall mentality and attitudes of Scorpions
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We can also assume that the upcoming Wars of Reaving trilogy will entail additional information as to the Scorpions leaving the Homeworlds.
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I think it's a little early to assume that, given that the trilogy will likely focus on the WoR itself and the Scorpion Abjuration happened afterwards.
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It might flesh out the Scorpions' operations and behind-the-scenes relations with other Clans and their program of using ELH genes.
Since they even have Winston(and that would be a glorious Bloodname to the Clans), this program would be interesting to cover in detail.
And I hope the Empire makes good use of all that unique captured Blakist/IS tech.
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We can also assume that the upcoming Wars of Reaving trilogy will entail additional information as to the Scorpions leaving the Homeworlds.
Here's hoping. Although the prelim covers showed Wolf & Star Adder, Coyote & Burrock, and Steel Viper & Blood Spirit. I know those were just put together for artwork for the kickstarter, but that's what we have to work with so far.
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I think it's a little early to assume that, given that the trilogy will likely focus on the WoR itself and the Scorpion Abjuration happened afterwards.
I don't want to speak for Phil, but, yeah: since the Scorps pop smoke AFTER the WoR is done, Tassa's probably correct.
Sorry all, just trying to manage expectations. ;)
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They may not play a major part but I do hope they get a mention since one of the reasons for the Wars of Reaving was the use of ELH genetics in the Scorpion gene pool.
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They may not play a major part but I do hope they get a mention since one of the reasons for the Wars of Reaving was the use of ELH genetics in the Scorpion gene pool.
The Cobras didn't make that discovery until after the WoR had concluded.
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Tassa_kay is right. The Reavings only happened to IS Clan Bloodnames.
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Tassa_kay is right. The Reavings only happened to IS Clan Bloodnames.
My bad, I got the impression the whole kicking the Scorpions out of the Homeworlds was during the whole chaotic mess not after.
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Tassa_kay is right. The Reavings only happened to IS Clan Bloodnames.
The Reavings only targeted lines that had been exposed to the taint of the Inner Sphere. But the thing to remember is so many lines had shared genetics. Any warrior that had gone to the IS or was descended from one that did was targeted. After that general declaration, then the Clans started using reaving calls against anyone that displayed "unclan-like" behavior.
On pg 96 of WoR, "Marghar’s Trial issuance is further evidence that the Reaving calls were beginning to be warped in context not just by Clan, but also by individuals." Also the whole "Rule of Law" sidebar on pg 80 covers it more in general, but ends with this, "What began as a bold pronouncement by the ilKhan quickly spiraled out of control as every Clan and every warrior within each Clan began taking advantage of the declaration as they saw fit."
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That doesn't change the known fact that all of the drama(and I do mean ALL of it) surrounding the ELH bloodlines happened after the Wars of Reaving, which formally end with the Viper Annihilation.
The upcoming novels might give us new information on this, but if there's anything that pushes the ELH stuff forward, it hasn't been published yet.
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I certainly hope they don't waste page time on such a minor thing, which again didn't even happen during the WoR, when there's so much stuff in the actual WoR that would suit a novel trilogy better.
Besides, what further details does one even need? The Scorps started using ELH genes in their breeding programs, the Cobras caught them, they got Abjured, etc. It was all pretty well covered.
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My bad, I got the impression the whole kicking the Scorpions out of the Homeworlds was during the whole chaotic mess not after.
That's alright. As Wantec explained in detail, it got messy with everyone real quick.
Essentially it was a Snake Clan power grab against IS Clans cloaked in legitimacy that pissed off the Society and their allies, devolving into a free-for-all between several loose alliances.
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Scorpions did stay out of Wars of Reaving but it is possible that they might get mentioned in relation to how the wars started since Brett Andrews got the job of ilKhan only after Ariel Suvorov took out previous ilKhan Garret Sainze (The Least Impressive One)
Scorpions were present on site when Society made their first move if memory serves me (Coyote Elementals blindsided them and the Mandrills)
If Roche or Dagda get TTS books as part of the package there could be some extra GS lore there as well
So I don't thing they will get anything big but something like what Scorpions and Falcons got in OTP Widowmaker Absorption would not be unreasonable to expect
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The Viper vs Spirit art has me intrigued. That battle on Tokasha was one of my favorite things to research for my sarna articles of yore.
It was foregone, but I still was wishing Khan Boques could have landed a lucky blast to the Bloody IlKhan's cockpit. Because poetic justice and whatnot.
But whatever.
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Moratorium ?
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Have we been told yet what technology of WoB the Scorpions did capture when they conquered the WoB outpost in the WoR?
What kind of Mechs (high end designs as to Raptor II, Celestial series)?
Pocket warships?
Highend weapons as to Variable Speed Pulse Lasers and/or sub-capital weapons?
Can they produce such weapons?
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My impression based on the RATs in Interstellar Expeditions (best Scorpion product ever), is that it wasn't cutting-edge Jihad stuff, but mostly from 3067 and before.
Wouldn't surprise me if the cache was established in '67 or so, for that matter.
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I love the IP3 Interstellar Expeditions, but there has not been any thing i found that draws line in what is canon and what is canon-rumor/non-canon results in the book.
Face value I think the minor Deep Periphery factions/worlds are canon, but it's nice to have actual line drawn how it should be considered. I know they want keep options opened, but lordy it be nice have affirm marks saying this is actual fact, what is non-canon because this possible outcome of the adventure/seeds etc.
Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade too me solid source information that reliably canon.
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Speaking of that product, does anyone know of any source that might say what alternate ammunition types would be appropriate for a Hansa force? Infernoes seem obvious given the Surtur's designed role, but what kind of LRM or AC munitions might have filtered out to them?
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officially: whatever is on the MUL
for funsies in your own game: whatever amuses you
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The MUL has ammunition availability?!? :o
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only with MUL premium accounts page turned and i didn't notice
was in reply to
Have we been told yet what technology of WoB the Scorpions did capture when they conquered the WoB outpost in the WoR?
What kind of Mechs (high end designs as to Raptor II, Celestial series)?
Pocket warships?
Highend weapons as to Variable Speed Pulse Lasers and/or sub-capital weapons?
Can they produce such weapons?
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Speaking of that product, does anyone know of any source that might say what alternate ammunition types would be appropriate for a Hansa force? Infernoes seem obvious given the Surtur's designed role, but what kind of LRM or AC munitions might have filtered out to them?
I would say potentially AP or Flechette are basically modern versions of firearms technology available today (and back in the '80s), so while TechManual lists them as new types of AC ammo, I think it could easily be fluffed as something the Hansa heard of and then made their own versions.
Swarm (LRM), T-Aug (LRM), and Fragmentation (LRM & SRM) are all described as Star League or "ancient" missile ammos that the Hansa could use. Those types went out of production as either the facilities were destroyed.
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Speaking of that product, does anyone know of any source that might say what alternate ammunition types would be appropriate for a Hansa force? Infernoes seem obvious given the Surtur's designed role, but what kind of LRM or AC munitions might have filtered out to them?
Personally, I would go with: if it was available under standard rules by ~3067 it's fair game. Plus smoke and thunder, if you play with mines and such. This is purely base on this sentence from OTP:HC, page 9:
[...] the Hanseatic League by 3120 had advanced
their technology level nearly to that of the pre-Jihad Inner
Sphere.
But I don't think we have anything more concrete.
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Speaking of that product, does anyone know of any source that might say what alternate ammunition types would be appropriate for a Hansa force? Infernoes seem obvious given the Surtur's designed role, but what kind of LRM or AC munitions might have filtered out to them?
Missiles:
Smoke
Frag
Inferno / Incendiary
Tear Gas
Listen-Kill (mostly against the older tech)
Flare
Standard Ammo
Ballistics:
Rubber Bullets
Flak
Incendiary
Tracer
Standard Ammo
Artillery:
Sniper / Artillery Cannon
Thumper / Artillery Cannon
Long Tom (both Rail and Standard) / Artillery Cannon
Cluster Shell
Flechette Shell
Illumination Shell
Smoke Shell
Thunder Shell (possible Thumper only)
Primitive Tech
Late 3rd Successor Wars Tech
Davey Crocket-M (Long Tom)
Alamo (Aero only)
Santa Ana (Ground Silo)
Peacemaker (Ground Silo)
Types I and II Bioweapons
Type III Bioweapon (cautioned use)
Chemical Weapons
The above from IO and are just possible usage for the Hanseatic Security Force.
TT
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I think it's safe to say that since the Hanseatic Defense Force did not use any WMDs in the Hanseatic Crusade, they didn't have them despite the ability to make them.
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I posted this as the Security Force, not Defense Force, as they were renamed after at the beginning of the Dark Ages.
So, by default, they would have had these available.
They also would have heard about the Jihad atrocities of what WMDs can do, declining on their usage.
But earlier in their history, I can imagine small uses and such...
TT
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I disagree.
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WMDs are clumsy weapons. You don't just strike your enemy, you run the risk of ruining the very worlds that you are fighting over.
But the Scorpions are known as the finesse warriors. Example: they have a ritual duel where you basically dance with a knife in each hand and perform a complicated, pre-ordered series of strikes and slices with said twin blades in order to succeed while your opponent tries to do the same to you.
Just not a nuke-throwing faction. It's not in their blood.
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Missiles:
Smoke
Frag
Inferno / Incendiary
Tear Gas
Listen-Kill (mostly against the older tech)
Flare
Standard Ammo
Ballistics:
Rubber Bullets
Flak
Incendiary
Tracer
Standard Ammo
Artillery:
Sniper / Artillery Cannon
Thumper / Artillery Cannon
Long Tom (both Rail and Standard) / Artillery Cannon
Cluster Shell
Flechette Shell
Illumination Shell
Smoke Shell
Thunder Shell (possible Thumper only)
Primitive Tech
Late 3rd Successor Wars Tech
Davey Crocket-M (Long Tom)
Alamo (Aero only)
Santa Ana (Ground Silo)
Peacemaker (Ground Silo)
Types I and II Bioweapons
Type III Bioweapon (cautioned use)
Chemical Weapons
The above from IO and are just possible usage for the Hanseatic Security Force.
TT
What's your source on all of these? I could be wrong, but I don't recall IO having a Hansa list.
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Alternative Eras General listing, cut off was extinct by 2nd SW or anything of that nature that required tech forgotten.
Everything else is on the General list available with some commonsense speculations.
The WMDs have been around for centuries, the () was suggestions.
TT
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If we're talking 3080 plus HDF, I'm sure they could use any of the specialty ammo for missiles or autocannons available pre-Jihad, or at least 3025 to 3050 lostech stuff such as Thunder or Swarm. As for WMDs any of the small polities could develop or buy them, but I doubt the HDF would use them except in extremsis. They don't have the centuries long scorched earth defense approach baked into their psyche like the Taurians do. Plus modernizing your military pays dividends in civilian development and sales to other powers. The Hansa were merchants in the end.
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I noticed that Water Elemental Mining Suit is gone from Scorpion MAL (extinct after exodus)
Don't know if this is oversight or is it supposed to be gone?
I know it's inconsequential for the game itself but it would be really nice if team returned to to the list, underwater industry is such a big part of their background that it would be really strange if they left all those new oceans they got untapped
Unless they believe that they have enough ore on land and they don't want to bother anymore?
Same for Kirghiz C, it used to be one of their favorite methods of Elemental insertion but now it's also gone
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Same for Kirghiz C, it used to be one of their favorite methods of Elemental insertion but now it's also gone
Hold up, WHAT.
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I mean, the Scorps aren't having to fight over scant resources with grabby neighbors on hardscrabble worlds in the Kerensky Cluster/Pentagon anymore. Makes sense to me that they aren't pumping out underwater mining suits anymore when they have dozens of worlds that don't require specialized equipment to exploit.
As far as the Kirghiz C, the Scorps are still running their specialist Trinaries as late as the Hanseatic Crusade, so I'd call that an oversight.
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Hold up, WHAT.
they failed to abscond with enough from the homeworlds to make the list. it's been unmodified in that state on the MUL for years
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So...it's physically impossible for them to run their trademark airmobile Trinaries. The Trinaries they are specifically noted as still using during Hanseatic Crusade. Kuzco's Trinaries.
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only if you use a pedantic reading of the MUL that is contrary to how the lists are meant to be read, yeah.
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I'm very confused. The MUL days they don't have Kirghiz in appreciable numbers, but you're saying they can still operate the formations that require Kirghiz in large numbers?
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Fluff isn’t game rules. The death commandos allegedly can field any mech they want. That does not affect capellan lists. This one subsection of their touman can be treated similarly if you prefer.
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As always, Sartris, thank you for the reminder that the MUL isn't the be-all-end-all of availability. It really helps in these edge cases.
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There are also 8 omnifighters with 10+ tons of podspace on the Scorpion Empire IlClan MUL, any of which can be configured to airdrop Elementals the same way a Kirghiz could.
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That's not a bad idea, the Scorpions working with what they got to keep using their established tactics. Sounds about right to me. This would even allow them to use a lighter & faster ASF to insert their Elementals. Like a Visigoth or even a Sulla xp
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That only helps those willing to stoop to customs.
Now if this is a hint that CGL is planning to release new OmniFighter configs, I'm all for it.
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Omniunits by their very nature are designed to be adapted to new circumstances. I don't see why using one unit to fulfill a fluff unit organization would provide any real problem for any game, especially since you're giving away several tons of pod space for the ability to drop battle armor via aircraft.
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I don't see why using one unit to fulfill a fluff unit organization would provide any real problem for any game
He literally just explained why: he doesn't use custom units/configs.
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That only helps those willing to stoop to customs.
Now if this is a hint that CGL is planning to release new OmniFighter configs, I'm all for it.
I really don't understand or care about you refusing to use customs, all I was pointing out is that there is no reason the Khirgiz is essential in universe
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Different play styles I guess. I've always subscribed to the idea that Omniunits can and often are reconfigured to fulfill different needs, which allows for fulfilling problems like this without relying upon CGL to create new configs. But to each their own.
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Well, if we're all done talking down to Weirdo for the cardinal sin of not using customs (and explaining OmniFighters to one of this board's most prolific aerospace players as if he was somehow unaware of this), can we move on, please?
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I am happy to have people not being talked down to for participating in an in universe discussion of how a combat tactic can still work without a specific unit.
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Deleted. I'll let the mods handle this nonsense.
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You're right. I apologize to Weirdo for being a bit of a dick regarding his distaste for custom units. I was simply trying to allow other participants in the thread, who may be less familiar with aerospace, that the Scorpions losing access to the Khirgiz does not prevent them from using their air drop strategy, and got snippier than I needed to at Weirdo's use of stooping when referring to part of the game I immensely enjoy
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I apologize for my word choices, but please don't ever suggest using any of those things to me again, as it causes extreme offense.
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(https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.761445994.7886/st,small,507x507-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.u2.jpg)
i'm begging y'all to just use the Kirghiz
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(https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.761445994.7886/st,small,507x507-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.u2.jpg)
i'm begging y'all to just use the Kirghiz
This is literally how I imagine you looking every single time an MUL issues comes up, LOL.
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There was a time when speaking of Clan tech in a periphery thread might have caused similar looks among the player base.
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Zellbrigen, salvage, look pa', I found someone's old stash... take your pick. You do you.
MUL is not only a work in progress, it's just a guideline, not commandments set in stone.
I certainly like the challenge of making something work and coming up with a plausible reason though.
(I say as I spent an hour last night trying to plan another Scorpion Empire star and finding some of the mech I wanted didn't show up...)
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There was a time when speaking of Clan tech in a periphery thread might have caused similar looks among the player base.
There are still players that give those looks. I pay them about as much mind as I do any other old man shouting at the clouds. Which is to say, none at all. ;D
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Actively refusing to listen to Sartis' voice of reason (sorry), another thought entered my mind: Using Small Crafts for battlefield insertion of BA. The NL-42 with its ten ton Battle Armor bay is on the Scorpion's MUL, for those of us who are interested in such a thing. Being a spheroid craft, handling within the atmosphere may be a bit awkward, but it's possible to use it to air deploy Elementals.
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Yeah man, throw them out of a union c in low orbit if you need to
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VTOL's, too.
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VTOL's, too.
Can you throw VTOLs out of a dropship in low orbit?
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Can you throw VTOLs out of a dropship in low orbit?
You can throw anything out of a dropship if you're brave enough.
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Zellbrigen, salvage, look pa', I found someone's old stash... take your pick. You do you.
MUL is not only a work in progress, it's just a guideline, not commandments set in stone.
I certainly like the challenge of making something work and coming up with a plausible reason though.
Zellbrigen or isorla?
As a baseline description of who has what and when, the MUL is extremely useful. I've had more enjoyment in the past few years mostly sticking with faction and era availability, rather than shoehorning in mismatches. That's not to say unusual items don't get salvaged during a campaign - but it happens onscreen, organically.
Anything can work in pickup games, but rejecting even mild guidelines in a campaign environment can demonstrate lack of engagement, or '13th Warrior' syndrome.
I had a player that wanted to run a Mad Cat MkII in an IS campaign game... starting in 2764. In another case someone wanted to use Celestials in a Dark Age campaign, but rejected outright playing during the Jihad when it was offered as an alternative. Another player in the same group had 'plausible' reasons for having abundant Society tech. I think it was something something Clan Wolverine something something Dr Banzai.
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You can throw anything out of a dropship if you're brave enough.
and at least once..
says the guy who once did a "bombing" mission with "washers" in Shadowrun Game. Needless to say non of the Washer landed in working order, but well it was what onboard the cargo bird I borrowed to leave in. :thumbsup:
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I was thinking more like VTOL as an insertion vehicle for Elementals. Possibly. They may not be able to be used in such ways with larger equipped infantry such as battle armor.
But if VTOL transport for BA is possible, they could easily retrieve and/or redeploy the Elementals as well.
Knowing how BT mechanics tend to work, that would be far too convenient. So I imagine VTOLs don't quite have the lift capacity to deploy BA in more than one trooper at a time, if even that.
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VTOL and Small Craft insertions are very good ideas and I use both myself, just not for a formation that is still very explicitly composed of Elementals and Aerospace Fighters.
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There's been a fresh addition to Empire's MUL (most likely due to new KS boxes but no complaints here)
Von Luckner tank (VNL-K65N-Vanilla) is available starting from Jihad era. Tracks nicely with the lore since it was one of SLDF "old faithfuls" that would be used to jumpstart local arms production in Imperio during the early years. Castilians and Umayyads already had almost all components in production at that point, all Scorpions had to do was to pull the blueprints from archives, email them to some of those factories they spruced up when they took over and watch brand new Von Luckners roll off the assembly lines.
And it's nice how it contrasts with entry for Patton tank which only shows up in Dark Age (AKA after the Crusade). It was post-exodus design which Scorpions would not have on file but it's exactly the thing that Hansa would license from Lyrans during the arms race (and something Lyrans would easily part with in exchange for big fat paycheck from very nervous Deep Periphery cousins).
It's awesome how you have these little lore tidbits hidden in MUL.
There is also Goshawk II 4 showing up in ilClan era but there don't seem to be any fancy story there, clearly bought from Sea Foxes (unless it was isorla from that double trial?)
Only(?) mech with XXL engine in their inventory. And of course they picked laser boat one with targeting computer, Scorpions and targeting computers are like Davions and autocannons. azn
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Agreed. If you don't ultimately want a targeting computer on your targeting computer, i want your Scorpion card. Now.
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Hi, I'm trying to gather information on the Scorpion Keshik. I've scoured my ever expanding collection of digital sourcebooks and can't find anything. Sarna doesn't have anything either. It appears that the Scorpion Keshik unit was recently canonized just. Year ago. I understand the Hellion Keshik is an associated cluster with Beta Galaxy. Is Scorpion Keshik a new command attached to Alpha Galaxy in the ilClan Era?
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Both of those Keshiks were created in OTP: Hanseatic Crusade, along with Seeker Keshik.
Beta Galaxy no longer exists. It's Hellion Galaxy now, with Hellion Keshik the saKhan's personal unit.
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Ah, I picked up that pdf now. Thank you.
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VTOL's, too.
Anhur BA is what you're looking for.
Imagine two pairs of Anhur BA with a pair of Donar riding shotgun, any type but most likely Close Support.
That's four 10-tons of Toads a droppin'!
TT
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Anhur BA is what you're looking for.
Imagine two pairs of Anhur BA with a pair of Donar riding shotgun, any type but most likely Close Support.
That's four 10-tons of Toads a droppin'!
TT
I like that combo. Nice and deadly.
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Yeah, I left a BA Point and two support Points out, allowing something fast and Omni to follow on.
Good bone structure there. I'd run a Kit Fox V and a Bowman to provide support, adding in various mechs to offer this as a Support Nova Star within a Binary formation.
Based off your versions of gameplay.
Mixing units is just one of my favorite specialties.
TT
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Anhur BA is what you're looking for.
Imagine two pairs of Anhur BA with a pair of Donar riding shotgun, any type but most likely Close Support.
That's four 10-tons of Toads a droppin'!
TT
You mean to say a pair of Anhur BA and a pair of Onuris riding shotun. Go for the trickery of looking like 4 unprotected Anhurs.
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You mean to say a pair of Anhur BA and a pair of Onuris riding shotun. Go for the trickery of looking like 4 unprotected Anhurs.
Thumbs up.
Deception is a cornerstone of battlefield tactics.
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If you liked OTP: Hanseatic Crusade, you might want to check Shrapnel 14 for a story and scenario by me that tie into the OTP. :smiley:
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Oh hell yeah, the good stuff keeps coming!!! azn
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If you liked OTP: Hanseatic Crusade, you might want to check Shrapnel 14 for a story and scenario by me that tie into the OTP. :smiley:
Downloading!
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In ISP3, it was noted that Interstellar Expeditions had yet to set up a branch and/or liaison office in the Hanseatic League as of 3095, but that such an offer was being mooted.
I wonder if IE ever got around to making such an offer; whether the Hansa accepted it; which world such an office would be permitted to be established upon; and what (if anything) the Scorpions might do about it once the Hanseatic Crusade broke out?
I would assume that the League would keep IE on one of the three "open" trading planets, rather than letting them establish themsleves on Bremen itself.
As for the Scorpions: might IE have had some sort of contact with the Imperio, prior to the Hanseatic Crusade? Would the Scorpions permit IE to operate in Nueva Castile, or indeed in former Hansa space post-Crusade? And if so, what might the Khan (and later, the zarKhan) extract from IE in exchange? Or, might Seeker Galaxy aim to seize the local IE operation - should one exist - as isorla?
Personally, I might wonder if the need to maintain multiple lines of communication to and from the Inner Sphere and near Periphery might make leaving any local IE operations in place a viable option - or, at least, might encourage the Scorpions to refrain from forcibly winding it down in its entirety.
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The Hansa probably turned IE down, if IE ever got around to making their offer.
As for the Scorps, I could see them trading exploration info in return for IE keeping silent about them and what they are doing.
Who knows what's actually going on, though.
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Won't any IE Coreward operations get destroyed by Homie warship patrols?
Besides, Seekers are the Clan equivalent of IE, so IE is redundant to the Empire.
The Empire wouldn't want nosy people gathering intel on them either.
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Just read Fighting For The Past in Shrapnel 14 and it's excellent, Doc is doing Great Father's work here. So much good stuff. Seekers are often mentioned and are staple of Scorpions' lore but we didn't have stories about actual quest until now. Relics, necrosia, zulkari, dance of scars, collecting pets, visions, it's all here and more. 10/10
Whole story is amazing (love the two part structure) so I'll just list off some of the cooler stuff I noticed:
Reverence for Star League really shines through, the way protagonist views her couple of Star League era trinkets and her reaction upon seeing actual SLDF site with her own eyes is amazing, like orphan who sees her old family home for the first time
We really get to see how Scorpions actually want to go about rebuilding Star League, they understand that it's about more than just conquest and that the actual work would be much harder and more complex than any simple war could ever be, Wardens 100% to this very day
This is second story that was hinted at in earlier works, first was story about last protomech pilot mentioned in Moving Forward and this one is related to dead patrol and missing K9 from Touring the Stars. Now I want to go over everything with fine tooth comb and try to guess what's going to be next? Story about Red Saturday from inside perspective would blow my mind
I guess we now have official Seeker motto/battlecry
Seeker shuttle is called Finders Keepers? Oh, my sides :grin:
Scorpions officially limited zellbringen to strictly Clan affairs, everything else is standard warfare because others don't care for rules. Wise approach, learn from other people's mistakes not your own, very in character
Even after all these centuries and all the technological advancements the sight of a single Atlas battlemech is still enough to make even the finest soldiers' blood run cold, General Kerensky knew what to ask of his designers (this one was definitely salvageable, welcome home big guy)
Scorpions aren't the only ones with respect for Star League, there were Hansa soldiers who appreciated the past as well
Hansa had to officially reveal the existence of manufacturing complex on Braunschweig to prevent military action, this would mean that despite all the hostilities and raiding there were definitely some (begrudging) diplomatic interactions
And finally the very fact that Scorpions discovered this SLDF site is like a good omen, it's like Great Father himself confirmed that they are on the right path and that leaving the Clan Homeworlds was the right call. This is the place where Star Leave left off and Empire now needs to continue the work which started centuries ago
No wonder Imperial capital was moved here, there were other planets with central location but only this one had Star League era structure
Excellent story, excellent writing! This is the good stuff
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Thanks for the kind words! Glad you enjoyed it!
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So, in the process of typing up posts over in this thread (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,83160.0.html), I was poring over the 3140 touman as listed in Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade.
By my count, the Scorpions had three Keshiks and thirty-one Clusters spread across six Galaxies on the eve of the invasion - plus four Clusters from their respective PGCs used to create the ad hoc Grunt Galaxy in anticipation of the battle for Bremen.
So, if one subtracts the Grunt Galaxy Trinaries back out from the touman once the war is over (so as to deploy them as PGCs to newly-conquered Hansa worlds), accounts for battle damage caused during the invasion itself (to include those killed on Red Saturday), then adds in new MechWarriors taken as bondsmen and (presumably) later added to the touman, plus new recruits from across the Empire to replenish the pre-existing Clusters, plus however many new Clusters are created when Eta Galaxy is established, that might leave... somewhere between 35 to 38 Clusters in the touman as per the onset of the IlClan Era?
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If so, that compares quite favourably to the Cluster counts for a number of the Council of Six Clans in the Inner Sphere and near Periphery, as per Field Manual: 3145.
But that was before the Battle for Terra. With both strains of Falcon greatly reduced from their pre-Terra peak, the "provisional" Smoke Jaguars in a similar boat, and the IlClan facing close to 60 percent losses from its own pre-Terra total at last reporting, that leaves even fewer Inner Sphere and near Periphery Clans with a touman exceeding the Scorpions' strength.
And even then, neither Clan Hell's Horses nor the Rasalhague Dominion are in great shape as per June 3152 ..
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Of course, with the unresolved question of the Homeworld Clans to consider, the Scorpions can ill afford to be complacent.
But, even if one leaves the key HPG advantage to one side - which of course they should not - it would appear that the Empire is certainly in a position of relative strength, if or when the time comes to establish negotiations (perhaps via long-distance HPG relay) with the new Star League Council.
But since TPTB don't appear to be going back to the Homeworlds any time soon, and since the nearest House military to the Empire (the LCAF) is still in pretty bad shape itself, perhaps the Scorpions might have the time to start planning a new long-distance campaign - say, against the Rim Territories - after all.
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They can certainly move against the Rim Territories or the Coreward LC worlds further from the Horse OZ to get a productive new province.
But before that happens, they have to finish consolidating the Hansa territories and add at least 40 more Clusters to the Imperial Military.
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To play devil's avocado for a moment...
...perhaps the Scorpions might have the time to start planning a new long-distance campaign - say, against the Rim Territories - after all.
...but why exactly would they do that? What have the Territories done to bring this, or what do they have that the Scorpions want? Clan Goliath Scorpion has never been a particularly expansionist entity, only going after Nueva Castille because they desperately needed a new home at the time. After they had that, they were content to expand through colonization, they didn't go after the Hansa until they were provoked. Finally, by all indications their recent actions in Chainelaine aren't maneuvers of conquest, instead acknowledging that they need some form of enclave closer to the Inner Sphere, they can't afford to be 100% isolated.
They can certainly move against the Rim Territories or the Coreward LC worlds further from the Horse OZ to get a productive new province.
But before that happens, they have to finish consolidating the Hansa territories and add at least 40 more Clusters to the Imperial Military.
Similar question: Why 40 clusters? What makes that number significant?
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While we the audience and of course writers know that Homies will be staying put for the time being in-universe people don't and Scorpions still see them as number 1 threat, we know this from official recent lore
Therefore it's safe to assume that at least 50% of their military assets (probably more) will always be parked home and pointed in the direction of the Homeworlds
Size wise they don't have to grow their military all that fast because thanks to Garrison Caste they have decent amount of wiggle room in terms of military planning
I don't see them invading and conquering Rim Territories but it doesn't mean there won't be military operations there
Rim Territories are pirate kingdom and only thing Scorpions hate more than Home Clans are pirates
Rim Territories probably increased their muscle thanks in big part to Scorpions themselves and the Deep Periphery pirate exodus that their anti-pirate campaign has caused
So it's quite possible that we could see some punitive expeditions into Rim Territories to proon the pirate hedges without any wars of conquest
I agree that colonization is Scorpions' main mode of expansion and since they have been moving into old Invasion Corridor it's possible they could start collecting any loose former RWR planets, they have been snooping around that place since Operation Revival started, Great Father pardoned the people of RWR, planets are nice enough, they had contacts with the locals and the place is loaded with relics
This would bring them in contact with Lyrans and Horses which could go either way but I think that both Lyrans and Scorpions are smart enough to play nice with each other, official alliance is unlikely but a decent trade agreement would go a long way for both
Plus having friends as backup option or at least a supply route in case of war with Homies would be very helpful, they saw how much isolation cost Smoke Jaguars (granted, Jaguars were isolated because they were pricks while Scorpions are isolated solely due to geography but the point stands)
And there could be some trade and diplomatic links with Timbuktu Collective in the future, you never know
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...but why exactly would they do that? What have the Territories done to bring this, or what do they have that the Scorpions want? Clan Goliath Scorpion has never been a particularly expansionist entity, only going after Nueva Castille because they desperately needed a new home at the time. After they had that, they were content to expand through colonization, they didn't go after the Hansa until they were provoked. Finally, by all indications their recent actions in Chainelaine aren't maneuvers of conquest, instead acknowledging that they need some form of enclave closer to the Inner Sphere, they can't afford to be 100% isolated.
My thoughts exactly. The Scorpions have absolutely no reason to start getting aggressive or expansionistic now. Honestly, the course that makes the most sense for them is to put them back on the shelf next to the other Home Clans and bring them out when it actually makes sense for them to be involved in something.
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My thoughts exactly. The Scorpions have absolutely no reason to start getting aggressive or expansionistic now. Honestly, the course that makes the most sense for them is to put them back on the shelf next to the other Home Clans and bring them out when it actually makes sense for them to be involved in something.
This would be boring plus Scorpions aren't Home Clans
I doubt CGL was doing all this prep work with Scorpions just because their writers and developers are underutilized and have free time on their hands
Major sourcebooks have followed geographical order so book that comes after IKEO should be focusing on Lyran region (so far only place not covered) and factions in the vicinity of Lyran Commonwealth like Hell's Horses OZ, Timbuktu Collective, Sea Foxes in Chainlane Isles and Scorpion Empire
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I would not find ooc for the Scorps to actually build a base or capture a planet in the former RWR region, if only to back Seeker activity in the area.
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The colonization drive undertaken by the Imperio prior to 3140 was by no means about peaceful expansion for its own sake. Rather, it was a key element of the broader efforts by the Scorpions to prepare for the inevitable war of conquest against the Hanseatic League.
It's no coincidence that all seven of the new colony worlds were located in the direction of Hansa space: not only did this shorten the distance the first and second waves of invasion had to cross when the war finally broke out, but the ability to install HPGs on these worlds (even as the Inner Sphere and near Periphery suffered the effects of the Blackout) meant that the Scorpions were able to maintain secure lines of communication from these new jump-off worlds back to Nueva Castile proper.
The Seeker incident at Bergen in 3139 might have been used as the immediate trigger for the Hanseatic Crusade, but the Scorpions had every intention to go in that direction when the time was ripe. Or rather, it was their careful preparation, implemented over several decades, which enabled Khan Scott to turn the Bergen incident into a full-scale casus belli.
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Going forward, the Empire has seemingly swung the Imperial/Preserver debate firmly in favour of the former faction... at least for now. But even leaving the long-range expeditions of the Seekers to one side, there remains a need for some kind of outlet through which the more aggressive energies to be found within the touman can be directed outwards.
While the enclave in the Chaine Cluster provides one such outlet, as well as a key point of contact with Clan Sea Fox, it also puts the forces deployed there at risk of what might happen should their hosts win one Trial of Possession too many.
So, rather than rely on a single pincer stretching towards the Inner Sphere and near Periphery from the Empire proper, it might be an option to extend a second pincer towards a region where there isn't a local Clan (or House) host military to reckon with.
Conveniently, the Rim Territories offers just such a venue. No-one would miss the local dezgra pirates - but at the same time, as suggested above, the Scorpions need not conquer the entire region all at once. They have enough military strength to spare to pick off one or two worlds at a time, consolidate their presence on each world, and then move on to the next.
Which, as also suggested above, might suit Seeker Galaxy, were it to provide a forward base from which they can operate in the region. Which, I suppose, would make it the nearest Clan equivalent to an Interstellar Expeditions branch office...
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And yes, in game terms, I want to see more of the Scorpions going forward, even in the absence of news regarding the Homeworld Clans for the foreseeable future.
Not least if the forthcoming BattleTech Universe book happens to introduce a new set of readers to the Scorpion Empire - and to the potential for the Seekers to show up where you least expect them...
But then, who is to say that we would hear from all four Homeworld Clans all at once? I wouldn't be surprised if, say, the Coyotes one day decided to pack up and head for pastures new. Which might still cause the Scorpions some issues, even if the Star Adders and f(r)iends had the Inner Sphere - and the newly-minted ilClan - in their sights.
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The colonization drive undertaken by the Imperio prior to 3140 was by no means about peaceful expansion for its own sake. Rather, it was a key element of the broader efforts by the Scorpions to prepare for the inevitable war of conquest against the Hanseatic League.
It's no coincidence that all seven of the new colony worlds were located in the direction of Hansa space: not only did this shorten the distance the first and second waves of invasion had to cross when the war finally broke out, but the ability to install HPGs on these worlds (even as the Inner Sphere and near Periphery suffered the effects of the Blackout) meant that the Scorpions were able to maintain secure lines of communication from these new jump-off worlds back to Nueva Castile proper.
The Seeker incident at Bergen in 3139 might have been used as the immediate trigger for the Hanseatic Crusade, but the Scorpions had every intention to go in that direction when the time was ripe. Or rather, it was their careful preparation, implemented over several decades, which enabled Khan Scott to turn the Bergen incident into a full-scale casus belli.
This is pure conjecture that’s unsupported by actual canon. The only canonical word on the subject, located within the one product (OTP Hanseatic Crusade) where such conjecture would surely have been discussed, says that the colonization of these worlds was to obtain vital resources and increase their population base.
I get wanting to romanticize one’s factions and attributing this sort of thinking to them to paint them in the best light possible, and I can even see a case for it possibly being true, but it’s still just headcanon without anything in canon to actually support it.
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Personally the only movement out of the Scorpions post 3150 are their Seeker stars. We may have some conflicts between the elements of the Sea Foxes and factions from the
Chainelane Isles but not much else. I would like to see an update on the Scorpions around 3200 just to see how they have changed especially if there is no sabre rattling at the gates.
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I hope we see the Scorps sooner than 3200! Besides, we have no idea what major events may be forthcoming in the years ahead. Situations may change drastically and that could encourage factions that may have been resting in the wings to get up and make some moves.
Then 3200 will be truly interesting for all factions.
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I wonder how long setting will remain in 3150s. It seems they don't want rush ahead. Heck, we may be more old gray by time they decide to get to 3200.
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I hope we see the Scorps sooner than 3200! Besides, we have no idea what major events may be forthcoming in the years ahead. Situations may change drastically and that could encourage factions that may have been resting in the wings to get up and make some moves.
Then 3200 will be truly interesting for all factions.
Don’t disagree but unless a new faction comes out of the periphery there is little for the Scorpions to do. Right now distance is as much of a hinderance as a help. In terms of distance it is almost like North America and Europe in the 1800s, unless you already have a beachhead all you can do is send trading jumpships and sell/trade your wares.
Actually the reason I sent out the 3200 is with every Clan faction we are seeing elements of Clan culture being changed with the Scorpions, Ghost Bears, and Sea Foxes being the flagship factions. 50 years (to me) seem to be a good time landmark where we see the shift and changes being made either temporary or permanent.
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I'd like to see them have their long-overdue showdown with the Home Clans. They're the only faction that actually poses a threat to the Scorpions, they've have had 70ish years to prepare for it (long enough to get the Aggressors into positions of power in their Clans), and it feels like a very Star Adder thing to do to use this Clan hybrid state as a way to prepare themselves for an invasion of the Inner Sphere. Plus the Scorpions have been on a meteoric win streak since the WoR and could stand to have an existential crisis. Bonus points if the Home Clans' Protos (maybe with some of that delightful Society tech incorporated into 'em) embarrass them on the battlefield and show them that getting rid of Protos was a mistake.
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Similar question: Why 40 clusters? What makes that number significant?
They need at least 70+ clusters for garrison and offense at the same time. A safer number will be minimum 150. A Cluster is roughly equal to a battalion, and that's not going to cut it against any major faction, so they need to ramp up both civilian and military expansion.
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They need at least 70+ clusters for garrison and offense at the same time. A safer number will be minimum 150. A Cluster is roughly equal to a battalion, and that's not going to cut it against any major faction, so they need to ramp up both civilian and military expansion.
That's crazy talk. The largest Clans in the Dark Age/ilClan era didn't field numbers nearly this large, with the sole exception of the Wolves and Falcons during their drive to Terra (the Wolves at their 3145 peak numbered 75 Clusters, the Falcons in the 50s). What could the Scorpions possibly be doing that would warrant such a bloated military? Their only proximate threat, the Home Clans, haven't been heard from in literally decades. Their closest Inner Sphere neighbors besides the Foxes are the Lyrans, who can't even keep their realm together right now, and the Hinterlands. The Empire could throw a few Galaxies together (Alpha, Hellion, Seeker, Omega as a reserve) as an expeditionary force, maybe even assign it one of their WarShips, and carve out space wherever they wanted.
The question is, what would bring the Scorpions to the Inner Sphere? What would their goal be? I don't think fighting pirate nations on the Lyran frontier makes too much sense for them, at least not on any large scale. A land grab that far from the Empire doesn't make much sense either, especially as we've seen they had no problem just colonizing the worlds around their realm. We know that they're now aware of their being an ilClan, and from the looks of it, they seem content to sit by the phone and wait for Alaric to call. I suppose they could send Seeker Galaxy to the former Rim Worlds to scour for artifacts, and that could even involve them in the Hinterlands (especially with the former RWR capital world smack-dab in the middle of it). Besides that, I got nothin'.
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Not to mention where would this industrial capacity to produce such a huge military come from?
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They need at least 70+ clusters for garrison and offense at the same time. A safer number will be minimum 150. A Cluster is roughly equal to a battalion, and that's not going to cut it against any major faction, so they need to ramp up both civilian and military expansion.
I missed the digits on the first read but these numbers are wild
70 is huge, 150 is mental
Latter one isn't "war-against-major-faction" size, it's "let's-conquer-clan-homeworlds-and-be-back-before-christmas" size
Forget Lyrans, you could invade Federated Suns with that and expect to do good
And Scorpion clusters aren't some protomechs+vehicles grade, it's good old fashioned mechs+aerospace with some token vehicles because Nikki K said so
Entire Clan Sea Fox would choke on that order, hell even old Jaguars would freak out after seeing that pricetag surge
Plus why would they go that crazy? Current size is just fine, Touman is growing steadily and affordably, Garrison Caste is doing their part and Empire ain't hankering for major war
It's overkill with all caps
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Bonus points if the Home Clans' Protos (maybe with some of that delightful Society tech incorporated into 'em) embarrass them on the battlefield and show them that getting rid of Protos was a mistake.
I fully support this outcome. Power to the Protos.
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They need at least 70+ clusters for garrison and offense at the same time. A safer number will be minimum 150. A Cluster is roughly equal to a battalion, and that's not going to cut it against any major faction, so they need to ramp up both civilian and military expansion.
Your math is a little off a Cluster is actually the equivalent to a Regiment. Remember even by the end of the Clan invasion 8 Inner Sphere mechs = 5 Clan mechs.
On the other hand as of right now I foresee the Homeworld Clans returning only if CGL decides to resurrect the Protos. Yes they exist but unless the come out in plastic I will probably not touch them.
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Bonus points if the Home Clans' Protos (maybe with some of that delightful Society tech incorporated into 'em) embarrass them on the battlefield and show them that getting rid of Protos was a mistake.
This cannot happen soon enough. I would happily accept vast chunks of the Scorpion Empire getting destroyed or ripped away* if it meant the survivors got an interesting Touman once again.
*Before anyone says anything, you already know I'm not talking about the WarShips here.
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I also hope that Homies try to invade the Empire with protomechs, it will make it easier for Scorpions to mop the floor with them and absorbe/annihilate them :evil:
Scorpions would be on the mother of all winning streaks, 4 Clans in the bag, baby!
Just imagine some poor unfortunate Stone Lion or Star Adder runt washout in a knockoff 40k dreadnought seeing an ocean of actual military hardware coming to send them to meet the Great Father in person?
Tanks, hovertanks, militia mechs, battlemechs, omnimechs, elementals, battle armor, gunships, aerospace... it's beautiful :smilie_happy_clapping:
There's a reason why fancy IS Clans like Wolves, Falcons or Bears don't bother with D'n'D robots :laugh:
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You forgot ProtoMechs, Primitive Mechs, IndyMechs, Conventional Fighters, Conventional Infantry, and Mounted Infantry. All of those have been denied the Scorpions from what was once their height of interesting-ness.
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You forgot ProtoMechs, Primitive Mechs, IndyMechs, Conventional Fighters, Conventional Infantry, and Mounted Infantry. All of those have been denied the Scorpions from what was once their height of interesting-ness.
All acceptable sacrifices on the altar of having their flawless, boring little utopia. Probably the first time in BattleTech history where fleshing out a faction made them less interesting.
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You forgot ProtoMechs, Primitive Mechs, IndyMechs, Conventional Fighters, Conventional Infantry, and Mounted Infantry. All of those have been denied the Scorpions from what was once their height of interesting-ness.
IndyMechs, Conventional Fighters, Conventional Infantry, and Mounted Infantry are all on Scorpion MUL and used copiously
Several designs like Daedalus, Mithras, Tiger and Korvin are unique to them (just off the top of my head), nobody else is rocking those
Nobody uses Primitive Mechs anymore, even Marians have moved forward, it has nothing to do with Scorpions
Now, should CGL fix Protomech lore and make them look not like rejected D'n'D drafts then sure, bring them on
But as long as they have dollar store 40k lore and look like avatars of derp please, no proto
All acceptable sacrifices on the altar of having their flawless, boring little utopia. Probably the first time in BattleTech history where fleshing out a faction made them less interesting.
Some people have weird definition of utopia :grin:
Plus that age old correlation between military inventory and societal structure, eh?
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Bonus points if the Home Clans' Protos (maybe with some of that delightful Society tech incorporated into 'em) embarrass them on the battlefield and show them that getting rid of Protos was a mistake.
What's the saying? If it needs Clan Society tech to be useful, it was never worth those resources in the first place.
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What's the saying? If it needs Clan Society tech to be useful, it was never worth those resources in the first place.
What’s that other saying, the one that actually exists? Oh, right: waste not, want not. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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That's crazy talk. The largest Clans in the Dark Age/ilClan era didn't field numbers nearly this large, with the sole exception of the Wolves and Falcons during their drive to Terra (the Wolves at their 3145 peak numbered 75 Clusters, the Falcons in the 50s). What could the Scorpions possibly be doing that would warrant such a bloated military? Their only proximate threat, the Home Clans, haven't been heard from in literally decades. Their closest Inner Sphere neighbors besides the Foxes are the Lyrans, who can't even keep their realm together right now, and the Hinterlands. The Empire could throw a few Galaxies together (Alpha, Hellion, Seeker, Omega as a reserve) as an expeditionary force, maybe even assign it one of their WarShips, and carve out space wherever they wanted.
I missed the digits on the first read but these numbers are wild
70 is huge, 150 is mental
Latter one isn't "war-against-major-faction" size, it's "let's-conquer-clan-homeworlds-and-be-back-before-christmas" size
Forget Lyrans, you could invade Federated Suns with that and expect to do good
And Scorpion clusters aren't some protomechs+vehicles grade, it's good old fashioned mechs+aerospace with some token vehicles because Nikki K said so
It's overkill with all caps
3145 Wolves had 75 Clusters, but the Empire has to ward against Homies, which at last count numbered 4 Clans. Both sides have access to Society tech, but so far the Empire hasn't even bulked up their Touman with enough regular tech units. Pre-WoR combined strength of these 4 Homie Clans would be 150+ Clusters, and they still have WarShips outnumbering the Empire's 3. So yes, just for adequate defense(assuming Homies get to rebuild and expand), the Empire needs 70+ to minimum 150 Clusters, not counting expansion of the Imperial Navy.
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Your math is a little off a Cluster is actually the equivalent to a Regiment. Remember even by the end of the Clan invasion 8 Inner Sphere mechs = 5 Clan mechs.
On the other hand as of right now I foresee the Homeworld Clans returning only if CGL decides to resurrect the Protos. Yes they exist but unless the come out in plastic I will probably not touch them.
Key words: By the end of the Clan invasion.
By the CGL 3145 reboot, everyone in the IS is either building Clantech or buying as much as is affordable. That makes a Cluster roughly equivalent to a Battalion. So it would be better for Clan factions to field at least 2 Clusters per Regiment faced or 3 Clusters for slight superiority.
LCAF has been mostly fielding regimental-sized units, CCAF and DCMS always field regiments, while AFFS is realizing just how limited an LCT is in a major war and are actively expanding with RCTs as the standard again. The IS Clans will catch up one way or another, or lose in attrition, so it's reasonable for the Empire to follow the ratio of 3 Clusters per Regiment.
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More the merrier when it comes to armies size, if you can do it, why not ?
And yes an Empire / Homie showdown would be good. Make a new area of conflict
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3145 Wolves had 75 Clusters, but the Empire has to ward against Homies, which at last count numbered 4 Clans. Both sides have access to Society tech, but so far the Empire hasn't even bulked up their Touman with enough regular tech units. Pre-WoR combined strength of these 4 Homie Clans would be 150+ Clusters, and they still have WarShips outnumbering the Empire's 3. So yes, just for adequate defense(assuming Homies get to rebuild and expand), the Empire needs 70+ to minimum 150 Clusters, not counting expansion of the Imperial Navy.
Empire is increasing it's Touman, this was confirmed
And 42+ Scorpion clusters are not the only thing they have, Garrison Caste is there too and while troops may not be the best and are vehicle centric there is whole lotta of them and are armed with IIC mechs and omni-vehicles like Epona
So while Empire Touman may be at 42+ the overall Imperio Militar should be at that number 70 or more which you mentioned only caveat being that Garrison PGCs are stationary and it's only Touman which can engage in offensive operations
As for Society tech there's are reason nobody is concerned with it: it's dezgra beyond belief
Only Stone Lions are allowed to experiment with some elements of it and only under strict supervison of Star Adders and Clan Council
Some of it would make Blakists go "nah dude, I'll pass" (remember Feralize for example?)
That stuff won't be making any big splashes not that it was packing much punch to begin with, it was just geared to exploit enemy's adherence to zellbringen and it didn't even succeed at that properly (plus Scorpions ditched zellbringen outside their Clan trials anyway)
In universe I doubt that Scorpions are completely in the dark about general situation in the Clan Homeworlds (Clan Watch is on the job) otherwise they would have kept war with Hansa on the back burner and stay focused on them
CGL will not be repeating Clan Invasion storyline, they said as much but something else could be in the cards (I did post my humble suggestion on Star Adder tread if anyone is curious)
And before anything big happens CGL will flesh out Home Clans to make them more interesting and create even footing with enemies like they did with Ghost Bears and Combine in Dominions Divided
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Key words: By the end of the Clan invasion.
By the CGL 3145 reboot, everyone in the IS is either building Clantech or buying as much as is affordable. That makes a Cluster roughly equivalent to a Battalion. So it would be better for Clan factions to field at least 2 Clusters per Regiment faced or 3 Clusters for slight superiority.
LCAF has been mostly fielding regimental-sized units, CCAF and DCMS always field regiments, while AFFS is realizing just how limited an LCT is in a major war and are actively expanding with RCTs as the standard again. The IS Clans will catch up one way or another, or lose in attrition, so it's reasonable for the Empire to follow the ratio of 3 Clusters per Regiment.
I will give you that but a Cluster is still either 75-45 points. Even with the tech upgrades that makes it the equivalent to 2 battalions.
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More the merrier when it comes to armies size, if you can do it, why not ?
And yes an Empire / Homie showdown would be good. Make a new area of conflict
Good points! Cheers :drinking01:
As it stands, the Empire is the "Shield of The North".
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Empire is increasing it's Touman, this was confirmed
And 42+ Scorpion clusters are not the only thing they have, Garrison Caste is there too and while troops may not be the best and are vehicle centric there is whole lotta of them and are armed with IIC mechs and omni-vehicles like Epona
So while Empire Touman may be at 42+ the overall Imperio Militar should be at that number 70 or more which you mentioned only caveat being that Garrison PGCs are stationary and it's only Touman which can engage in offensive operations
As for Society tech there's are reason nobody is concerned with it: it's dezgra beyond belief
Only Stone Lions are allowed to experiment with some elements of it and only under strict supervison of Star Adders and Clan Council
Some of it would make Blakists go "nah dude, I'll pass" (remember Feralize for example?)
That stuff won't be making any big splashes not that it was packing much punch to begin with, it was just geared to exploit enemy's adherence to zellbringen and it didn't even succeed at that properly (plus Scorpions ditched zellbringen outside their Clan trials anyway)
In universe I doubt that Scorpions are completely in the dark about general situation in the Clan Homeworlds (Clan Watch is on the job) otherwise they would have kept war with Hansa on the back burner and stay focused on them
CGL will not be repeating Clan Invasion storyline, they said as much but something else could be in the cards (I did post my humble suggestion on Star Adder tread if anyone is curious)
And before anything big happens CGL will flesh out Home Clans to make them more interesting and create even footing with enemies like they did with Ghost Bears and Combine in Dominions Divided
In BT, garrison troops are always there to make up the numbers and perform according to what the writer wants. Conventional units have always been treated as throwaway units against Mechs and most Clans are still Mech-centric forces. That garrison caste is good for pacification and security, but in a real war, they won't cut it unless they get named like Grunt Galaxy or specifically shining in their own stories.
The most important element of the Imperial Military is still the regular Touman.
As the Scorpions are far more flexible and unrestricted by zell, they can adopt useful Society tech like iATMs and Nova CEWS(original or upgraded for 5-unit networks), Fusillade and finish the Electric Reactive Armor tech. Even the Homies will be fielding those stuff except for Nova CEWS(perhaps Lions will use it).
Unless they add "reveals" about certain factions always knowing the Homies' situation, it's doubtful the Imperial Watch knows anything. Imperials can sneak all the way to S7 but there's still nothing about the nearer Homies.
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I will give you that but a Cluster is still either 75-45 points. Even with the tech upgrades that makes it the equivalent to 2 battalions.
It's not just tech. Clan conventional units are generally worse in experience compared to IS counterparts. Pure Mech fights will end up either way, but combined-arms fights will see an IS win unless against Horses or native Rasalhague. The Clans really need 3 Clusters per Regiment to have an edge.
Of course, this is just lore. Ratio of 2 Clusters per Regiment is good in tabletop.
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Unless they add "reveals" about certain factions always knowing the Homies' situation, it's doubtful the Imperial Watch knows anything. Imperials can sneak all the way to S7 but there's still nothing about the nearer Homies.
Yeah, that one was a reach. Especially with the Adders actively destroying anyone that gets close to the Homeworlds.
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In BT, garrison troops are always there to make up the numbers and perform according to what the writer wants. Conventional units have always been treated as throwaway units against Mechs and most Clans are still Mech-centric forces.
Conventional units are not throwaway in current era or couple of eras before current one
Also Stone Lions and Cloud Cobras are vehicle and aerospace centric while all Home Clan Toumans are also stuffed with protomechs
That garrison caste is good for pacification and security, but in a real war, they won't cut it unless they get named like Grunt Galaxy or specifically shining in their own stories.
The most important element of the Imperial Military is still the regular Touman...
Garrison Caste is there specifically to defend their planets, pacification and security is handled by police units which while being part of Garrison Caste are just one segment of it
Garrison Caste is narrowly specialized for defense which is who would be needed in case of Homie invasion
But real world talk here, we know that reason for Scorpion military size is not some in-universe negligence but the fact that Home Clans are completely benched in terms of storytelling so there no real need for writers to start adding stuff in their military until they have reason to
Yeah, that one was a reach. Especially with the Adders actively destroying anyone that gets close to the Homeworlds.
I never said they went there, nobody goes there
I just said that they aren't completely in the dark
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Good points! Cheers :drinking01:
As it stands, the Empire is the "Shield of The North".
And IF said showdown happens, it will take a while for news to reach the Sphere, so while everyone is fighting there, Scorps are like "You are welcome"
But in realism, TPTB said that there would be no "Homie "Clan Invasion 2.0", but I wonder would they try to set up in mid Perhipery
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Did the Scorpions ever purge their society cells completely? Did they do away with their Dark Caste, that's present in ALL clans?
If no to both...
What's stopping a resourceful cell from taking over a Pirate Kingdom and rearming it...
Just saying... Old RWR planet, with some type of culture that survived the Exodus fleet's movements.
TT
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Did the Scorpions ever purge their society cells completely? Did they do away with their Dark Caste, that's present in ALL clans?
If no to both...
What's stopping a resourceful cell from taking over a Pirate Kingdom and rearming it...
Just saying... Old RWR planet, with some type of culture that survived the Exodus fleet's movements.
TT
Dark Caste members were among the fighters who stayed behind with Khan Suvorov to buy time for Clan to evacuate so it's safe to say that rest of them evacuated with everyone else EDIT: Could be wrong?
(Big reason why I love Scorpions is that they got pretty much everyone out and brought them to safety, solid folks)
Scorpions don't softball with crime but they don't go axe crazy, we know this because they do recruit warrior candidates from Dark Caste (Highwaymen Cluster of Mu Galaxy) on the down low of course :police:
I don't think that Dark Caste there dabbles in piracy anymore considering the local attitudes plus the Empire is more than big enough for good old ilCosa Nostra to thrive especially once they got in touch with and/or took over existing mafiosos
As for someone going into RWR piracy business who knows, it's a big place and stranger things have happened many times before
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Did the Scorpions ever purge their society cells completely? Did they do away with their Dark Caste, that's present in ALL clans?
No to both, as far as we're aware. The only Clans that actually did the work there were the Falcons and the Coyotes, as they wiped out the entirety of their scientist castes, and one can't ever really do away with the Dark Caste because there will always be individuals who don't fit into Clan society.
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Indeed. All the clues are that the Society remnants among the scientists are alive and well in the Scorpions. They may just be bidding their time.
The Society's roots more or less all go back to Babylon during Op Klondike, when Gerek Tchernovkov got the whole of an enclave of scientists that was led by his brother Richard to surrender to the 'yotes without a shot fired, after coming to a secret agreement. It's easy to speculate that this agreement was manifest in the near-equality of the scientist and warrior castes that we witnessed in Clan Coyote.
But that also hints that the Society was and likely still is very good at laying low and biding their time.
Just saying.
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Dark Caste members were among the fighters who stayed behind with Khan Suvorov to buy time for Clan to evacuate
Do you have a page number for this? Haven't seen that stated before, but lord knows the WOR book is DENSE.
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Do you have a page number for this? Haven't seen that stated before, but lord knows the WOR book is DENSE.
Yeah, I think I jumbled something there, I was reading Sarna a while back and the phrase used was 'malcontents' not Dark Caste, my bad
Could be anything I guess, still need to go over the WoR but I'm away now and I don't have any books but other than this part everything else about Dark Caste is checked, recruitment and units were covered in TROs and most recently RecGuide (Locust IIC pilot I think)
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Yeah, that one was a reach. Especially with the Adders actively destroying anyone that gets close to the Homeworlds.
I'm not sure if the Adder WarShip patrols are even out of the Homeworlds anymore, as the Foxes are in regular contact with the Empire and those contact routes would have to go through the Clan waypoints previously patrolled by the Adders up till 3090.
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Conventional units are not throwaway in current era or couple of eras before current one
Also Stone Lions and Cloud Cobras are vehicle and aerospace centric while all Home Clan Toumans are also stuffed with protomechs
Garrison Caste is there specifically to defend their planets, pacification and security is handled by police units which while being part of Garrison Caste are just one segment of it
Garrison Caste is narrowly specialized for defense which is who would be needed in case of Homie invasion
Agree to disagree here
But real world talk here, we know that reason for Scorpion military size is not some in-universe negligence but the fact that Home Clans are completely benched in terms of storytelling so there no real need for writers to start adding stuff in their military until they have reason to
Yeah, they are still rebuilding and expanding from the Crusade.
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The Scorpions have took a continent (enclave?) on a world in the Chainelane Cluster, so contact with the Sharkfoxes is far easier now.
Also, the conquered Hansa space is so far anti-spinward that neither the Sea Foxes or the Scorpions need to travel through the coreward sections of the Deep Periphery for contact. One can head out anti-spinward from the Chainelanes then turn north coreward. The Homeworlds are much farther away than that, and their movements would be difficult to keep secret after a while.
The Home Clans would have to travel at least 500 to 600 light years distant if not more to intercede.
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/0/0c/Deep_Periphery_-_lg.png?timestamp=20130331215325)
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It would be interesting to see how different branches of Society evolved since the Wars of Reaving now that they are isolated from each other in three different locations (Homeworlds, Inner Sphere, Empire)
It was also stated that Clans with less strict relations between warriors and civilians had far fewer issues with Society than harsh ones like Falcons because recruitment of subversives was harder in more egalitarian environments
Star Adders had almost no issues, Hell's Horses and Goliath Scorpions as well
In fact Scorpions were the first one to get fired upon by Coyotes/Society when uprising kicked off for this reason among others probably
So we could be looking at three flavors of Society ideologies down the road
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The Scorpions have took a continent (enclave?) on a world in the Chainelane Cluster, so contact with the Sharkfoxes is far easier now.
Also, the conquered Hansa space is so far anti-spinward that neither the Sea Foxes or the Scorpions need to travel through the coreward sections of the Deep Periphery for contact. One can head out anti-spinward from the Chainelanes then turn north coreward. The Homeworlds are much farther away than that, and their movements would be difficult to keep secret after a while.
The Home Clans would have to travel at least 500 to 600 light years distant if not more to intercede.
The Empire can skirt anti-spinward to avoid Adder patrols, but the Adders have proven they can assault the Hansa with their major expedition after the WoR. They can do it again, but their window is closing with each year the Empire gets to strengthen itself.
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The Empire can skirt anti-spinward to avoid Adder patrols, but the Adders have proven they can assault the Hansa with their major expedition after the WoR. They can do it again, but their window is closing with each year the Empire gets to strengthen itself.
The fact that TPTB didn't actually follow through on this is such a shame. At the very least, it would be nice to see the Home Clans raiding the Empire semi-regularly to keep their warriors sharp (and give all parties involved something to do besides gather dust).
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Far as we know the homeworld clans went all crazy on each other again or something?
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Maybe. It's as good a supposition as any.
I've asked and the closest thing to an answer about the Homies that I received was a strong hint that speculating about them is rather a waste of time because it's going to be a long time before we hear about them again, if ever.
That's not a quote. That's just what I gathered. Others might have read the things I did and have slightly different conclusions, or maybe even vastly different conclusions because we're all different.
It just seems that it might truly be better for everyone if we forget about them for a while. That's my take.
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In ISP3 there were some great speculations (and misinformation) about the Home Worlds and what happened there (WoR timeline).
A pity that WoR sourcebook was published before that, speculations among us player wouöld have run wilöd.
Giving us something similar now (some rumors, bar talks of some drunk people, captured, damaged (or maybe a coded message (we coud try to encode azn ), this would be great for us starving Home Clan fanpack.
The idea of a great conflict between the Scorpions and Home Clans I like, much potential for quite a lot of bumm-bang-bumm :evil:
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I know two ways to get that information...
1) Wait with baited breath for it to someday show up...
2) Or, hear me out, we create a go-fund-me account and give the proceedings to the Scorpion Writer who has in the past, wrote more about the Scorpions, Doc Swift.
Note:
Not necessary an outright Homie book, just something about the Homies... Maybe a Seeker force looking for relics that were left behind, or possible a blunt recon-in-force of the old homestead?
As if we aren't looking for anything in particular...
Auto-Scout jumpship sighting anyone?
TT
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I know a couple people who wouldn't contribute to that fund. :laugh:
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I know a couple people who wouldn't contribute to that fund. :laugh:
You sure do, but let’s not bait them in the thread, since that’s against the rules and all. ;)
On a serious note, I’d *love* for Ben Rome to be given the reins to write the next chapter of the Home Clans’ story, if and when they’re taken off the shelf again. He did such a superb job with WoR, and at least with him, there would be a greater chance of consistency with what came before.
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I know a couple people who wouldn't contribute to that fund. :laugh:
No need bother yourself with irrelevant insignificant minority, just take the cash and start beavering away :laugh:
(But seriously, where do I send the cash, I need this!!!)
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Not necessary an outright Homie book, just something about the Homies... Maybe a Seeker force looking for relics that were left behind, or possible a blunt recon-in-force of the old homestead?
That's exactly what I was saying a ways up-thread. The Scorps, as the last known point of contact with the Homeworlds, make for some of the strongest possibilities plot-wise to at least drop some breadcrumbs as to what's going on. Take a few young Seekers, hearing tales of what once was, want to see Moreau's Dagger for themselves and make their way in that direction, or maybe information about a hidden antechamber beneath the Temple of the Nine Muses is rediscovered, and the contents of that chamber prompt a Scorpion Watch operation back to the Homeworlds. It doesn't need to definitively spell out what's going on there, but something that at least lets us know if the Adders, Cobras, Coyotes, and Lions still exist or not. Maybe the Scorpion JumpShip comes across the recently-shattered hulk of Sea Fox or IE vessel and bugs out when they detect multiple jump signatures deeper in-system, or they note the presence of attack satellites in a place they hadn't been previously. Something to at least infer the Homeworlds even if we can't observe them due to word of God.
On a serious note, I’d *love* for Ben Rome to be given the reins to write the next chapter of the Home Clans’ story, if and when they’re taken off the shelf again. He did such a superb job with WoR...
Agreed to both sentiments, but does he even have a toe dipped in BT anymore?
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This is pure conjecture that’s unsupported by actual canon. The only canonical word on the subject, located within the one product (OTP Hanseatic Crusade) where such conjecture would surely have been discussed, says that the colonization of these worlds was to obtain vital resources and increase their population base.
I get wanting to romanticize one’s factions and attributing this sort of thinking to them to paint them in the best light possible, and I can even see a case for it possibly being true, but it’s still just headcanon without anything in canon to actually support it.
I'm in no hurry to unduly romanticize the Scorpions: their early clampdowns in Nueva Castile, the disasters they triggered on Kampen and Bruges, plus the brutality meted out by Mu Galaxy on Tomalov, are reminders that their record is by no means spotless, even by the standards set by other Clans elsewhere in known space.
That said: to quote from the portion of the Fighting for the Past story in Shrapnel #14 set on Braunschweig in the 8th of May 3138:
German was one of the official languages of the Hanseatic League. All Goliath Scorpion Trueborn learned it during their sibko training. Long had the Clan been preparing for the war to come.
Also, in the portion of the Dying Breed story in Shrapnel #12 set on Graystone in the 22nd of October 3099:
They all bore the same ensign, a sailing vessel on a disc with the numeral 5: Regional Defense Force Five of the Hanseatic League. The Hansa had attacked the Empire's other colony worlds, hoping to stop the Clan's expansion. It was her duty to stop them.
Now, it could be argued that the two data points are not entirely connected: exactly how long the Scorpion sibkos have been learning German is not specified. And while the Hansa certainly saw these new colonies as a direct threat to them from the outset, they would have done so regardless of the Imperio's intentions.
But, even though the early Imperio had its hands quite full getting its own house in order - to include reconciling with the Umayyads, once it was confirmed that they were not connected to the Not-Named Clan after all - I remain convinced that the Scorpions' long-term plan from quite early on was the same as what the Council of Merchants feared it to be: to invade and conquer the Hanseatic League.
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As for the Scorpions and the Homeworld Clans:
I still think there's every possibility that the four Clans left standing at last reporting might not stay together as one bloc.
Plus, while the Star Adders might (again at last reporting) have had the now-former Hansa worlds in their sights, I think it's also quite possible that news from Terra regarding ilClan Wolf - and of General Kerensky's body being entombed there - might force even this most level-headed of Homeworld Clans to adjust their strategic priorities.
In fact, both things might be true. Perhaps the Coyotes might split from the others and make a run for the Scorpion Empire, while the other three march on Terra in order to reclaim the McKenna's Pride and the tomb of the Great Father?
Indeed, things might get yet more complicated for the Scorpions if the Coyotes show up in Imperial space, and while there announce their defection to the side of the Wolves. In the midst of a Coyote-Scorpion war, would Alaric grant recognition of one side or another, or perhaps seek to bring both into his new Star League?
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Also, as shown on the Deep Periphery maps from ISP3, the area covered by the Scorpion HPG network - to include the relays being run across the distance from the Empire proper to the Chaine Cluster - covers about two-thirds of the distance between Braunschweig and Terra, give or take.
So if Alaric were to extend the offer of negotiations with the Scorpion leadership, it might then be possible for the Sea Foxes, and/or the Scorpions themselves, to further extend this HPG line from the Isles all the way to Unity City: enabling near-real-time communication of the kind which took place between the original Clan OZs and Strana Mechty between Operational REVIVAL and the Wars of Reaving.
All of a sudden, the Empire would be that much closer to events taking place at the heart of the Inner Sphere - and to be able to adjust accordingly...
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I know a couple people who wouldn't contribute to that fund. :laugh:
I'll take this as a subtle hint that better plans exist somewhere in the future. Like 1200 years in the future!
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But, even though the early Imperio had its hands quite full getting its own house in order - to include reconciling with the Umayyads, once it was confirmed that they were not connected to the Not-Named Clan after all - I remain convinced that the Scorpions' long-term plan from quite early on was the same as what the Council of Merchants feared it to be: to invade and conquer the Hanseatic League.
The Scorpions always knew the Hansa were going to be a problem, but I still maintain there's a difference between knowing that, even preparing for it (and yes, there's definitely a lot of evidence of that, I don't at all dispute that), and having a decades-long plan for dealing with it. I think that's giving the Scorpions far too much credit, and it's just not borne out in the canon.
That said, I kind of wish it were, because it would make far more sense that the Scorpions were intentionally trying to instigate a conflict by doing things like settling near Hansa space and sending in covert Seeker teams because they had a long-term plan. As it stands, it reads weird that the Scorpions didn't consider it worth going to war when the Hansa invaded Holdout but did when their covert Seeker team got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
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The Scorpions always knew the Hansa were going to be a problem, but I still maintain there's a difference between knowing that, even preparing for it (and yes, there's definitely a lot of evidence of that, I don't at all dispute that), and having a decades-long plan for dealing with it. I think that's giving the Scorpions far too much credit, and it's just not borne out in the canon.
That said, I kind of wish it were, because it would make far more sense that the Scorpions were intentionally trying to instigate a conflict by doing things like settling near Hansa space and sending in covert Seeker teams because they had a long-term plan. As it stands, it reads weird that the Scorpions didn't consider it worth going to war when the Hansa invaded Holdout but did when their covert Seeker team got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
Another quote, this time from Page 8 of OTP:HC itself:
Khan Kirov foresaw an impending great crusade and increased the size of the touman, adding at least one Cluster to each Galaxy, to a minimum of four.
Enrico Kirov was Khan from 3108 to 3137. During his tenure, the size of the touman was further increased (with Omega Galaxy eventually fielding six Clusters); Chi Galaxy was evolved into Seeker Galaxy, complete with the creation of a new Seeker Keshik to lead it; the office of reKhan was established on each world in the Imperio; the colonization efforts begun by Khan Rood were brought to fruition; the industrial base in the Imperio was brought up to full Clantech levels; the capital was moved from Granada to Valencia; and the societal restrictions which had caused the most trouble with the local populace (such as insisting on the exclusive use of Star League English) were loosened. So still a lot on his plate to deal with before the time was ripe to kick off a broader conflict.
To put it another way: there were plenty of opportunities for an incident between the Imperio and Hansa to trigger a large-scale invasion. But only once the Scorpions felt that they were ready to successfully carry out such a conquest did they actually use one such incident as a trigger for said conflict.
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To put it another way: there were plenty of opportunities for an incident between the Imperio and Hansa to trigger a large-scale invasion. But only once the Scorpions felt that they were ready to successfully carry out such a conquest did they actually use one such incident as a trigger for said conflict.
I can agree with the gist of this, but OTP:HC doesn't really paint the picture of "this was the Scorpions' plan all along", more "they'll have to deal with this at some point and want to be prepared". So that's about as much accord as I can offer on this topic.
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...
That said, I kind of wish it were, because it would make far more sense that the Scorpions were intentionally trying to instigate a conflict by doing things like settling near Hansa space and sending in covert Seeker teams because they had a long-term plan. As it stands, it reads weird that the Scorpions didn't consider it worth going to war when the Hansa invaded Holdout but did when their covert Seeker team got caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
It's not about Holdout or Seekers, it's about how ready they were for war or when they actually concluded that this specific war is on the horizon
There have been hostilities in Castilian Cluster long before Scorpions arrived, Castilians and Umayyads despised Hansa because they fomented war between them hoping to absorb them both later, both were about to start joint raids against Hansa despite not trusting each other, Hansa got hostile with Scorpions because they believed that they stole their future territories and since Scorpions absorbed Castilians and Umayyads their hatred of Hansa was absorbed as well made much worse by immediate antagonism by Hansa
Let's go over the timeline:
3070s - 3090s: Khan Colin Yeh's tenure, hard early days, Imperio is founded, society, military and economy are being laid down, societal and political tensions, threat from Homeworlds is main concern, constant Home Clan raids and subterfuge
3090s - 3100s: Khan Connor Rood's tenure, Home Clan raids are being beaten back consistently, spies are being weeded out, Homies start pulling back, early reforms start bearing fruit, economy and population boom and new colonies are founded in Hansa direction because it's deemed safer than Homeworlds direction, Saturn and Jupiter start their police reforms
3110 - 3130: Khan Enrico Kirov's tenure, Home Clans isolate themselves, still the main threat but not as urgent as before, Imperio society settles in the groove, norms are loosened a bit, police reforms are implemented fully, technology starts reaching Clan levels, Battle of Holdout happens early in this period and Castilians and Umayyads are fully integrated into the Clan afterwards with equalizing trueborn and local freeborn warriors and fully granting them political power, Hansa fully militarizes as a result of the loss on Holdout and Scorpion retaliation in the process pretty much becoming what they sought to avoid (military society instead of mercantile one)
At this stage arms race is on, raids by both sides are constant, war is officially coming and both sides are gearing for it big time, whole region is now a powder keg
3130's - Now: Khan Magon Scott's tenure, everyone is armed and ready, Seekers get pantsed and the match is lit
So war with Hansa was not Scorpion Plan A but once it got on the menu after turn of the century they definitely started getting ready for it, Battle of Holdout was tectonic event but at the time they weren't ready for major war of conquest
Fast forward three decades later they were ready and went all in
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I added to my Scorpion Empire company. Not only do I now have a full star of IS upgraded mechs, I also have two stars of clan mechs to field!
(https://i.postimg.cc/qMKVZdbm/PXL-20231129-043946766.jpg)
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NICE.
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Looks like the hulk's been drinking funny water again...
Noice pics.
Seems, you got a Kurita Lance of Great Turtle as well!
TT
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On another topic, part of the "Sea Fox Two-Step" in Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik involved the Scorpions claiming an unspecificed range of Sea Fox units and/or blueprints as isorla.
As noted over in the MUL errata thread (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,80685.msg1979895.html#msg1979895), the Scorpion Empire does not have access to any "general" unit lists: so whatever they get from the Foxes in enough numbers to warrant MUL line entries has to be added to the Empire's own IlClan Era MUL listings (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=91&EraId=257) - if it has not been so already.
So, I was wondering: are there any particular IlClan Era Clan Sea Fox (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=82&EraId=257) and/or IS Clan General (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=56&EraId=257) designs you might, or perhaps might not, want to see the Scorpions acquire from this haul, and/or be worth adding to the MUL at some future point n time?
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Personally, I'm still hoping for the Hammerhead to be up for grabs.
Although, since the Foxes have a number of Wraith models marked on their IlClan Era MUL listings, getting those would make it easier to use all of the 'Mechs offered in the Alpha Strike Boxed Set (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Alpha_Strike_Boxed_Set)...
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On a serious note, I’d *love* for Ben Rome to be given the reins to write the next chapter of the Home Clans’ story, if and when they’re taken off the shelf again. He did such a superb job with WoR, and at least with him, there would be a greater chance of consistency with what came before.
100% this. He killed off two of my favourite Clans and I still love him for it.
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100% this. He killed off two of my favourite Clans and I still love him for it.
Absolutely the same sentiment I feel. I was crushed that the Spirits bit the dust (to the point where I didn’t buy BT products for a few years because they were my primary story/faction investment), but the book was excellent and has aged very well, IMO.
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100% this. He killed off two of my favourite Clans and I still love him for it.
It's honestly one of my favorite Gaming Sourcebooks ever. Very well written.
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On another topic, part of the "Sea Fox Two-Step" in Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik involved the Scorpions claiming an unspecificed range of Sea Fox units and/or blueprints as isorla.
As noted over in the MUL errata thread (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,80685.msg1979895.html#msg1979895), the Scorpion Empire does not have access to any "general" unit lists: so whatever they get from the Foxes in enough numbers to warrant MUL line entries has to be added to the Empire's own IlClan Era MUL listings (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=91&EraId=257) - if it has not been so already.
So, I was wondering: are there any particular IlClan Era Clan Sea Fox (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=82&EraId=257) and/or IS Clan General (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=56&EraId=257) designs you might, or perhaps might not, want to see the Scorpions acquire from this haul, and/or be worth adding to the MUL at some future point n time?
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Personally, I'm still hoping for the Hammerhead to be up for grabs.
Although, since the Foxes have a number of Wraith models marked on their IlClan Era MUL listings, getting those would make it easier to use all of the 'Mechs offered in the Alpha Strike Boxed Set (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Alpha_Strike_Boxed_Set)...
Aside from Smoke Jaguar stuff the Goliath Scorpions have track record of using Wolf and Ghost Bear hardware
They purchased stuff from Wolves back when they were buddies (and also reverse engineered Phantom as well) and they were among major users of Grizzlies and Kodiaks
They have also been regular customers of Sea Foxes since the exile
So we know their preferences and given their security priorities they would prefer something that Home Clans are unfamiliar with
IMO the wish list would definitely include Amarok, Dominator and Kontio
Hammerhead would fit this criteria too
Battle armor like Callisto and Dragoon would also fit the bill on top of mandatory Elemental III which would be sweet upgrade
Vehicle wise Eurus, we know they build Eponas all over the place for both Warrior and Garrison Castes so they do appreciate Hell's Horses vees and Eurus would be right up their alley
In the air definitely Onuris VTOL, like all Clans they used Anhur for centuries and Onuris is logical continuation
Also I think that they wouldn't mind upgrading their trusty Mad Dogs to III/IV series, Grizzly to model III and get more recent Kodiaks
Maybe they could even start building White Ravens to supplement Black Pythons but I don't know how much that could be fiscally justified in-lore since that one is really extra money wise (Snow Ravens spare no expenses it seems)
All these would be great additions and would be complete unknowns for Home Clans
I didn't add any IS platforms but that's just because I don't have so much stuff memorized but I'm sure there should be IS products Scorps would appreciate
Fun bonus:
I know handful of folks out there are peeved over Scorpions not having protomechs (funnily enough nobody wishes to saddle any other Clan with those buckets for some reason, beats me why) but if they really need some super weird platform I vote for QuadVees: they are spicy, they work, they are practical, they aren't edgy or grimdark and best of all they can be used by both Warrior and Garrison Caste units
If weirdness is required I vote for weirdness that makes sense :cool:
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Protomechs are before their time. The technology in them super advanced, especially in the "Elements of Treason" novel, where we get a further insight into it.
Perhaps the Homies have been developing them more (also as more resources dwindle), as they were designed to replace vehicles and have a little advantage over Battle Armor. But especially with the newer super heavy versions, they can start rivaling ultra and light mechs, be designed with hargel in them, better armor and EI interface
Would be a new tech show down to see if we do get a conflict between the Empire and Homies
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Actually, if the Scorpions were to acquire QuadVee technology from the Hell's Horses, perhaps they could use it to develop their own, turret-less versions? Say, a QuadVee version of the Fire Scorpion?
Indeed, while the Scorpion LAM didn't work out, perhaps a Scorpion QuadVee might be a more viable option.
In the long run, I might wonder if both the Scorpions and Horses might adopt both turreted and turret-less QuadVee designs as the technology is refined - for use in "battle tank" and "tank destroyer" modes respectively.
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here's a what if the Blood Spirit's joined with the Scorpions prior to there move would this be a benefit or possible diastor
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here's a what if the Blood Spirit's joined with the Scorpions prior to there move would this be a benefit or possible diastor
Spirits: We must take vengeance on Burrocks and Adders!
Scorpions: Don't.
Spirits: But they have committed great insu...
Scorpions: DON'T!!! Also, how many of you speak Spanish?
Spirits: Well I am sure we can find quite a few who... WAIT A MINUTE!!! What are you guys up to? You are being even weirder than usual!
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Protomechs are before their time. The technology in them super advanced, especially in the "Elements of Treason" novel, where we get a further insight into it.
Perhaps the Homies have been developing them more (also as more resources dwindle), as they were designed to replace vehicles and have a little advantage over Battle Armor. But especially with the newer super heavy versions, they can start rivaling ultra and light mechs, be designed with hargel in them, better armor and EI interface
Would be a new tech show down to see if we do get a conflict between the Empire and Homies
The Homies would have to pray for a quick war against the Empire or their Proto manpower will suffer from heavy attrition
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The Homies would have to pray for a quick war against the Empire or their Proto manpower will suffer from heavy attrition
If that's the only thing the Home Clans were bringing to the table, sure. But I would expect them to throw as much as possible at the Scorpions if and when they enter into a conflict, especially with the Adders in charge. Plus they've been sitting in isolation for decades now (how much could the Aggressor movement have grown in that time?) and they're going to want to give as many warriors as they can the chance to win glory in combat. And if things turn south or the Empire proves a tougher nut to crack than they expect, we know they have the means and the will to use their WarShips to glass their enemies from orbit.
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If that's the only thing the Home Clans were bringing to the table, sure. But I would expect them to throw as much as possible at the Scorpions if and when they enter into a conflict, especially with the Adders in charge...
True but Home Clan Invasion is precisely what Scorpions have been getting ready for all these decades and have plenty of stuff to throw themselves to say nothing of the fact that unlike Homies they have ginormus pool of reinforcements, replacements and experienced retired reservists ready to jump back in
To say nothing of ocean of hardware and production capacity
Plus they've been sitting in isolation for decades now (how much could the Aggressor movement have grown in that time?) and they're going to want to give as many warriors as they can the chance to win glory in combat.
Better question is does Aggressor movement even exist anymore?
They have been made to look like idiots by bunch of Garrison militia mech jocks back in the early days and all this radio silence and isolation is indicative of Bastions running the show ever since
And if things turn south or the Empire proves a tougher nut to crack than they expect, we know they have the means and the will to use their WarShips to glass their enemies from orbit.
They could try that once and then they would get hosed down with nuclear fireworks plus with God knows what else
Just because Scorpions aren't building warships (that we know of) doesn't mean they don't have the means of dealing with them
Like I said, decades of preparation
And once now officially dezgra invaders have been dealt with it would be time to load everything up on jumpships and start collecting heads in the Homeworlds
Not the game I would play if I were Homies
It would be wiser to try hitting someone who did not spend several eras specifically getting ready for you in particular
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And realistically, would Homies even be allowed to keep that many warships now when warships are being actively deleted from the setting? Even Snow Ravens aren't allowed to play too hard with them and it's supposed to be their whole inventory shtick
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I think the warship question as far as production goes will end up being tied in with the Sea Foxes and Chainislands cluster, which we do know that Sea Foxes maintain a some kind of shipyard there. Since we do have some places in Canon that have mentioned ship work being done there.
Whether or not they're able to actually produce brand new jump ships or Warships remains to be seen and is left to the game makers / writers to choose if there NEED factions have them or not.
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They don't even need to do anything as complicated as building warships
Ravens have bunch mothballed warships and no money or electronics (they trade with Canopus for computers), Scorpions have money and electronics, Foxes travel between Empire and Outworlds
Scorpions can hire Foxes to go buy some mid-size warships for them from Ravens in exchange for percentage of the contract
Scorpions get warships, Ravens get cash and hardware, Foxes get their cut and everyone walks away happy
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Ravens have bunch mothballed warships
No, they don’t. The Ravens have reactivated their fleet.
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Oh, good
Faster delivery time
All those reactivated ships cost money to keep running :wink:
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Oh, good
Faster delivery time
All those reactivated ships cost money to keep running :wink:
Might want to rethink that...
Officially, only a Fraction of the Exodus Road's Warships have been activated since the Clans took over the Pentagon and Kerensky Clusters...
I really want to say there's a third left cache'd...
Just saying...
TT
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Might want to rethink that...
Officially, only a Fraction of the Exodus Road's Warships have been activated since the Clans took over the Pentagon and Kerensky Clusters...
I really want to say there's a third left cache'd...
Just saying...
TT
Where not the last of the naval caches destroyed or emptied in the Wars of Reaving?
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?
I see I need explanation...
If two thirds have been reactivated and either lost through combat, or simple conversion, it still leaves more ...
Out of 402 Warships, maybe 80 or so are still unnamed, Cache'd somewhere...
TT
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Per WoR: the Stone Lions were preparing to activate the last two vessels in the Horses’ naval cache, the Cobras pulled three ships out of mothballs, the Sharks only had one vessel in their Vinton cache that worked (the rest were too heavily damaged by a passing comet) and managed to get one of two vessels in their Babylon cache activated, and the Adders’ cache was emptied out. No word on the rest.
It doesn’t ultimately matter, though, because even with just what all sides have on paper right now, the Home Clans vastly outnumber the Scorpions in WarShips (and in offensive ground forces, too, honestly). Despite the overly-rose-tinted-glasses some are using to view the Empire’s capabilities, they’d still be at a massive disadvantage in any sort of honest-to-goodness war with the Home Clans.
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But then there's the Society and what they scoffed off with...
So 15 ships, give or take...
Also, the various Clan built Homemades that built when they first started rebuilding new Warships and not Converting...
I really want to say they converted because of Operation Dragoon Compromise's report. When the intel was released, Operation REVIVAL was next.
TT
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Since the Scorps love historical artifacts a ton, clearly they should get ahold of the blueprints for the Rifleman III. And since its a direct fire focused mech, they would be tempted to build new ones... with clan tech... and a targeting computer
Also I agree with Quadvee Fire Scorpion
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But then there's the Society and what they scoffed off with...
So 15 ships, give or take...
I know the Burrocks had a fleet, are these 15 the ones destroyed over Tamaron? Or are they unaccounted for?
(If so, what are they? I'm tracking a couple of Corvettes and a Fire Mandrill ship, but not 15! That's a couple fleets in and of itself! :-)
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Burrocks had 7 ships total.
Society had 2.
There was 1 pirate ship that worked towards similar ends as the Society and was often peaceful towards them, but there is zero indication they controlled it in any way.
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Since I made a (very rough) start at painting my Alpha Strike Boxed Set minis elsewhere on these boards (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,83309.0.html), I was thinking a bit more about what the faction logo for Eta Galaxy might look like.
At this point, Alpha, Hellion, and Seeker Galaxies each have a bespoke symbol they use, as opposed to he Greek letters used for other Galaxies to date.
So, while yet another Greek letter could be called upon for Eta Galaxy (as suggested by Doc Swift at one point in time), I was wondering... since this Galaxy is mostly comprised of ex-Hansa freeborns, perhaps the logo could feature the BattleMech silhouette from the former RDFs for MechWarriors; and the fighter silhouette used by the three former CPFs. as shown in OTP:HC, for aerospace pilots?
After all, the Scorpions saw fit to re-work the logo of the Hanseatic League itself in order to establish their new, post-Crusade faction emblem. So why not draw from that same well here?
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Check the Star Python entry in RecGuide 23. (The Greek letter is not a mere suggestion.)
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Check the Star Python entry in RecGuide 23. (The Greek letter is not a mere suggestion.)
Fair enough.
In that case, perhaps one or more of the PGCs drawn from ex-Hansa recruits could use the old RDF/CPF silhouettes in their Cluster logos? (There is a generic "Grunt Galaxy" logo for use while "called up" to front-line duty - yet there could be separate logos for each PGC while deployed to their respective world.)
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Since the Scorps love historical artifacts a ton, clearly they should get ahold of the blueprints for the Rifleman III.
It was suggested in one of the XTROs that the Republic had salvaged the remains of that one mech. Possibly making a new production model or something like that. However, sadly I don't think I made the cut if it was supposed to make a cameo during the fighting on Terra.
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What still gets me is the Empire logo....
When they were Clan Goliath Scorpion is that originally it was a scorpion on "sunburst" of lava
Then when the became Imperio it was a scorpion on a red star, which was the symbol of the Umayyads and the crown of the Castillians was discarded.
Now that its the Scorpion Empire - its a scorpion atop a stylised starburst atop a red disk which is a kind of stylised Hansa symbol.
So do you think that people get the impression that everytime the Scorpions move on to a new expansion - the old symbols get binned - apart from the Scorpion of course.
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It's just a case of change begat change.
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...
Now that its the Scorpion Empire - its a scorpion atop a stylised starburst atop a red disk which is a kind of stylised Hansa symbol....
Huh, good catch
I didn't even see Hansa disk in the back before, definitely tracks with their collecting habits
Also, did anyone else notice that body and tail of the Scorpion in the Clan's logo are shaped like like a question mark?
Don't know if it's intentional but it definitely seems fitting
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Clan Goliath Scorpion, not just collecting relics, also collecting factions since 3074!
The motto of all Scorpions, not just Seekers: Gotta Catch 'Em All!
:smilie_party_cheers:
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Speaking of collecting things, I wonder what kind of Seeker quests the Scorpions might undertake in the Chainelane Isles, beyond their new holding in the Chaine Cluster proper.
For one thing, at last reporting in ISP3, there was still the "missing" SLS Pioneer from the old Star League Expeditionary Brigade, said to be floating adrift somewhere in the Paran star system. No doubt the Sea Foxes have been on the lookout for it... which might only heighten their embarrassment were the Scorpions to find it first!
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Also, the Coreward Confederacy - marked as "RWR Outpost #27" on Deep Periphery maps - is not that far from the nearest edge of formerly Hansa space.
Even if the Scorpions were to refrain from seizing this cluster of worlds outright, they might make for a useful waypoint for long-range Seeker missions across the anti-spinward Deep Periphery.
Beyond this, it would be interesting to see what kind of contact might be made between the Scorpions and the various peoples to be found in that broader area of space, such as the Axumites or the colonists on St. Andreas. Or what the local Interstellar Expeditions bureau might make of it all...
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Also, the Coreward Confederacy - marked as "RWR Outpost #27" on Deep Periphery maps - is not that far from the nearest edge of formerly Hansa space.
IIRC, the Star Python fluff mention Eta Galaxy hunting pirates in a former Coreward Confederacy planet.
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IIRC, the Star Python fluff mention Eta Galaxy hunting pirates in a former Coreward Confederacy planet.
Yeesh, there going to be no periphery nations left by time 3250 hits.
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*Puts in overtime at the Taurian MIC*
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Since the Scorps love historical artifacts a ton, clearly they should get ahold of the blueprints for the Rifleman III. And since its a direct fire focused mech, they would be tempted to build new ones... with clan tech... and a targeting computer
Also I agree with Quadvee Fire Scorpion
It was suggested in one of the XTROs that the Republic had salvaged the remains of that one mech. Possibly making a new production model or something like that. However, sadly I don't think I made the cut if it was supposed to make a cameo during the fighting on Terra.
One of a kind near mythical relic from the days of the Great Father's final battle against the Usurper hidden away somewhere on the Holy Terra?
This sounds like a setup for the most epic Seeker quest :cool:
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Season's greetings, throtkin
May the Great Father watch over our people, may our quests be fruitful and may our Empire prosper
Seyla!
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Seyla!
One of the great things about the Scorpions is they don't care if you bring a gift or not for the holidays, they find their own presents and take home what they want.
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Season's greetings! I think the Empire would be heavily integrating Christmas and New Year into its festivities ever since the migration to Nueva Castile
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Christmas I could see... But which New Year? Gregorian Calendar or Hijir Calendar?
Or both because Scorpions and they say so?
Also don't be surprised if they take your gift back and exchange it for a nice used Kerensky's Orion Cockpit.
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Saint Nicky comes round in his Orion painted Christmas santa colours :grin:
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The Clans already celebrate the New Year (it's the only holiday they share with Spheroids, per WoK), but I don't see the Empire getting involved with Christmas on any sort of official/Empire-wide level. Given the disparate cultures of the Empire, and the religious strife they've already had to deal with (per TTS: Valencia), not to mention the fact that Clanners themselves don't celebrate Christmas, I wouldn't think they'd be eager to exacerbate that situation by favoring a holiday that at least one significant portion of their constituent population (the Umayyads) likely doesn't recognize.
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Along time ago on these forums, there was a Saint Nikky funny poem or something. Was it you Tass who posted it ?
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Oh no, deeeeeeefinitely not me, this is the first I'm hearing of it!
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Season's greetings! I think the Empire would be heavily integrating Christmas and New Year into its festivities ever since the migration to Nueva Castile
Definitely
Plus we should assume that there are Empire-wide holidays and local planetary ones
New Year, Great Father's birthday, Establishment of Imperio, Victory Day in Amaris War, Star League founding, etc... would be celebrated everywhere
Then we have Christmas, Easter (both calendars), Eid al-Fitr, Hanukkah, Colony Founding Day, etc... which would be celebrated depending on the planet and which folks live there
It's quite possible that big local events like, for example, the date when first Castilian colonists arrived in the cluster would become Empire-wide holidays as well due to historic significance
Plus I'm sure that even back in the Homeworlds Clan civilians celebrated all sorts of holidays once they were off the clock and back home, Scorpions have well established tradition of warriors and civilians not tripping over each other too much
Now in the Empire it would be even jollier
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I'm just trying to imagine what a Yankee Swap (https://yankeeswap.com/yankee-swap-rules/) with a group of Scorpion Seekers must be like
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How about a thrift store called Elam's Attic?
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Definitely
Plus we should assume that there are Empire-wide holidays and local planetary ones
New Year, Great Father's birthday, Establishment of Imperio, Victory Day in Amaris War, Star League founding, etc... would be celebrated everywhere
Then we have Christmas, Easter (both calendars), Eid al-Fitr, Hanukkah, Colony Founding Day, etc... which would be celebrated depending on the planet and which folks live there
It's quite possible that big local events like, for example, the date when first Castilian colonists arrived in the cluster would become Empire-wide holidays as well due to historic significance
Plus I'm sure that even back in the Homeworlds Clan civilians celebrated all sorts of holidays once they were off the clock and back home, Scorpions have well established tradition of warriors and civilians not tripping over each other too much
Now in the Empire it would be even jollier
This. Fire Scorpion IIC answered it well. Scorpions are liberal. To keep Imperial unity, they just integrate everything as long as they don't clash with Imperial unity. Just like the Romans
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The Romans having no culture, copy and "romanize" what they conquer, can this be classed as a culture in its self ? :grin:
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Of course. Just because a culture borrows from others doesn't mean it isn't a culture.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go eat some brand-name yogurt.
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So, I only recently got around to playing HBS" BattleTech game.
Yes, it's been out for a while, but I only recently got a device capable of actually playing it (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,74311.msg1979911.html#msg1979911)...
Of course, the game is set long before the rise of the Scorpion Empire. But, there is something interesting about it, which is not much of a spoiler (yet which I'll put in spoiler tags, just in case you want to find it for yourselves):
When you are first creating your character in story mode, you can choose where your ancestor migrated to the Aurigan Reach from. One of the options is... the Deep Periphery!
Plus, the game lets you set your character's first name, last name, and callsign.
And while you start off with a generic mercenary faction name, livery, and logo, you can later go into a section which allows you to set a new name, paint scheme, and logo that are more to your liking. One of the logo options is... a stylized Cameron Star!
So if you decide to browse through the list of old and new Bloodnames from Clan Goliath Scorpion, give yourself a suitably Seeker-esque callsign, and settle upon a suitable set of branding options for your fellow lucrewarriors, there is little to stop you!
Although, it would be on point if the game had someone from ComStar, and/or from Wolf's Dragoons, show up to ask "questions" of anyone who actually picks the Deep Periphery origin option...
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What game is this ?
I always thought when this game was referenced it meant the Battletech RTS Turn Based game
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BattleTech_(video_game) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BattleTech_(video_game))
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ah ok thanks, yeah it is the one I was thinking, I have played it on Steam
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I should note that game wasn't a RTS game, it was a TBS
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On another topic, I was wondering about how the Scorpions make use of - or, perhaps, make do without - HarJel (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/HarJel), in the wake of the Abjuration from the Homeworlds.
Do any of the worlds in the Empire as of 3151 have a substance which can be used to produce HarJel, akin to the alternative source the Sea Foxes have access to in the Twycross system?
If not, are the Sea Foxes wiling to trade HarJel from Jonah's Reach to the Scorpions - or do the Foxes only provide that substance to other Inner Sphere and near Periphery Clans? (If they are willing to trade, perhaps one side benefit of the new enclave in the Chaine Cluster has been to further enable the import of this valuable substance.)
Alternatively, might the efforts to bring former Ice Hellions into the Clan have led to a re-starting of their prior effort to develop a synthetic HarJel substitute?
And if the Scorpions simply have no access to any kind of HarJel substitute, what - if any - in-game effect might this have on Elementals and other HarJel-equipped units in either Total Warfare or Alpha Strike terms?
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They trade links with the Foxes. They will get Harjel.
Alternatively, just discard using Harjel and use IS BA construction rules mated with Clantech for their battlesuits and naval vessels.
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On another topic:
While playing HBS' BattleTech, I've been thinking of the design and function of the Argo DropShip.
I wonder: while the "canon" Argo class is not quite the same as the one in the game, might the Goliath Scorpions see such a vessel as worth salvaging - or, indeed, perhaps for use by the Loremaster's Seeker Keshik?
If they could find one in a salvageable condition, that is...
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Definitely, it's bonafide Star League relic and extremely rare and unique one at that
Also it's intended purpose fits perfectly with idealized view of Star League that Scorpions have
It would be a prize catch
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Yeah, but y'all got to go clear across several Clan tested zones and the Periphery ones too...
Maybe in the ilClan era...
TT
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Speaking of — what are people’s favourite OpFors for Scorpion Empire units in the ilClan era.
I’ve been amusing myself with Rim Territory/Rim Collective raiding, personally.
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Speaking of — what are people’s favourite OpFors for Scorpion Empire units in the ilClan era.
I’ve been amusing myself with Rim Territory/Rim Collective raiding, personally.
Good choices, more should be around the corner soon
The BT Universe book seems to have decent writeup about Scorpion Empire and there's also separate part about "Deep Seekers" (if I read correctly, it's tiny image) so we will be getting fresh lore solid material as well
Hell's Horses, Lyrans and old Falcon OZ successors are within easy reach already from Chaine Cluster
Timbuktu Collective should be available for visitation/archeology as well
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Good choices, more should be around the corner soon
The BT Legends book seems to have decent writeup about Scorpion Empire and there's also separate part about "Deep Seekers" (if I read correctly, it's tiny image) so we will be getting fresh lore solid material as well
Which one is that ? Thanks :cool:
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Which one is that ? Thanks :cool:
Dammit, I pooped the bed!
It's not Legends, it's Universe
Foooook, me so dum!
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Gee, I wonder who might've written that faction in the book... :cool:
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Gee, I wonder who might've written that faction in the book... :cool:
Prolly some smart sonofafreebirth who got sneaky enough author, don't know who that might be, do you?
Cause it looks like we might own them a case or two of Timbiqui Dark.
TT
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Gee, I wonder who might've written that faction in the book... :cool:
Whoever he is he is definitely up to something
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Dammit, I pooped the bed!
It's not Legends, it's Universe
Foooook, me so dum!
what book are you talking about?
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what book are you talking about?
https://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/BT-Universe.png
Upcoming, should be in summer
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Actually, it would be interesting if it turned out that one of the MechWarriors to be featured in Legends II was from the Scorpion Empire.
Perhaps Khan Magon Scott, or zarKhan Emmy Line?
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Also, I'm still hoping that there might be some room in BattleTech Universe for a 3151-era map of the Empire, to include marking Braunschweig as the new capital world.
Speaking of maps, I wonder how long it might be before a product showing a "full" map of the Inner Sphere and near Periphery as of June 3152 is to be published, since that would be an opportunity to mark the Chaine Cluster as under "shared' ownership. Which would be the first - but perhaps not the last - time Clan Goliath Scorpion would appear as an "on-map" faction in that stellar neighbourhood...
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zaKhan Emi Line is very recent character and she is riding Rhino which doesn't even have artwork yet so she'll probably have to wait
Khan Magon Scott could definitely go as Warhawk pilot, certainly more worthy choice than Warhawk pilot from previous book
Khan Connor Rood would be excellent choice for this book, he was Khan of two Clans and Imperio plus he piloted Linebacker which is quite underrepresented design so this would be great opportunity to cover many bases at the same time
Khan Ariel Suvorov would be great choice for Visigoth entry, there seem to be few super notable aerospace pilots in universe history and she is influential figure from Refusal and Reaving eras plus the spiritual mother of the Imperio so definitely something to consider
I think maps should not be an issue, Empire has a decent coverage in Universe book and there's plenty of room for maps, current year map is included
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https://bg.battletech.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/BT-Universe.png
Upcoming, should be in summer
So about 4 months, quiaff ?
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Aff, in June
Also there have been additions to Scorpion Empire MUL Infantry section, 30 new units
I noticed that they got TAG and Narc versions of Purifiers plus probably some others too (Scorpions do seem to love Purifiers)
Some more versions of Elementals too
I can't tell exactly what else is new, does anyone know how to look up changelogs on MUL?
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They don’t exist, at least not in a place they can be easily accessed
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The infantry is the recently added 1 damage divisor standard points. TW doesn’t have infantry armor so they had to be added to account for the lower bv of not using a clan armor kit
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<deleted>
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New boxes have been announced and Scorpions were not on the list. Still it ain't no big deal since it's early days yet.
But if we go over what has been announced there's quite a lot of it that's straight from the Scorpion roster.
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So now we got:
Atlas II
Awesome 9Q (for Awesome C)
Emperor (for EC and Nerran versions)
Kintaro (for Naja, same thing externally)
Phantom (darling of Goliath Scorpions, lovingly reverse engineered and bootlegged)
Glass Spider (pretty much used only by Scorpions and Wolves with occasional Ravens)
Guillotine IIC (I always thought that standard and IIC were identical externally but no complains here)
Epona hovertank (built and used by everyone and their uncle Tio in the Empire)
Donnar helicopter
Athena tank
Mars tank (Baneblade Jr.)
Gnome Battle Armor
Bug company for all those Stinger Cs, Locust Cs and Wasp Royals
Plus Omni versions: Ice Ferret D, Nova J, Adder A, Summoner ? and Hellbringer A
All in all pretty sweet coverage despite not getting any coverage
Stuff still missing from MUL:
Star Python, Star Crusader (definitely coming if not in hypothetical Scorpion box then certainly in ComStar/WoB one)
Drift Shag (Falcon), UrbanMech IIC, Commando IIC, Wyvern IIC, Lynx C, Bowman and Thunder Stallion (standard rarities, who knows)
And local designs: Snow Fox, Cazador, Tolva, Rhino and Surtur (these would be good candidates for proper Scorpion box)
Plus the ever elusive Fire Scorpion, if by some miracle we get this redesigned and plastic'd I will go loco
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Gnome BA for the win! I love the aesthetic.
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Gnome BA for the win! I love the aesthetic.
My Horses and Lions can't wait either... hurry up and take my money!
TT
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This might have been a topic raised once before, so apologies in advance:
It"s noted in OTP:HC that many MechWarriors in Seeker Galaxy make a point of piloting vintage Star League BattleMechs instead of Clan OmniMechs, in keeping with their bespoke philosophy. ("Vintage" appears to include "C" and/or "IIC" variants, at least based on what is written in Recognition Guide Vol. 1: Classics.)
Are there any particular 'Mechs on the Imperio/Empire MUL listings - of either lineage - which would be particularly suited for use on Seeker missions?
For example: would it be important for a Seeker to take a 'Mech which has one, or both, hands "free", so as to help with any "acquisitions" along the way? Or is it better for the Seeker to defer such things to their retinue?
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And on a side note: if an Elemental were to lead a Seeker quest, which of the battlesuit types available to the Imperio/Empire would be most useful for them? (Again, one with one or both hands "free", perhaps?)
Indeed, might they want one of their retinue to pilot an OmniMech, so that the Seeker can use it as an additional form of transport?
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As with a lot of things in Battletech, I think the answer is "It depends", and the depends on question would be the Seeker's personal attitude, as well as their standing. A Seeker with enough influence and history to justify a sizeable retinue can afford to lean on those assets and thus shoot for a more specialized mech for themselves, while a rookie or poorly-regarded Seeker probably needs a machine that is as multipurpose as possible, because they're not gonna have underlings to do any work for them.
And of course, it's equally possible that a prestigious Seeker may *want* to do everything themselves even if they can afford to delegate, for additional honor upon success.
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It"s noted in OTP:HC that many MechWarriors in Seeker Galaxy make a point of piloting vintage Star League BattleMechs instead of Clan OmniMechs, in keeping with their bespoke philosophy. ("Vintage" appears to include "C" and/or "IIC" variants, at least based on what is written in Recognition Guide Vol. 1: Classics.)
Note that "many" does not mean "all" or even "most."
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While none were retained in enough numbers to merit showing up on the MUL, I have to wonder if the Seekers might have any C3i-equipped machines from Waypoint 531. Even without using the targeting abilities of the equipment, C3 gear has the capacity to process and coordinate information from other sources, allowing such a Seeker and their charges to quickly survey and analyze a much larger swathe of territory than otherwise.
(In tabletop rules, this is reflected in their ability to monitor more remote sensors than a normal mech.)
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So, to narrow things down a little:
If one were to say that, for the purpose of a given quest, the Seeker involved was to choose a 'Mech - be it an OmniMech or a non-Omni BattleMech - from a given Era's Imperio/Empire MUL listing, but with the following stipulations:
*The 'Mech has to have both left and right hand actuators - and both have to be for actual 'Mech hands, not for claws,
*The 'Mech has to either have an all-energy variant and/or configuration, or at least have as minimal an ammunition requirement as possible,
and, to make things more awkward/interesting,
*The 'Mech has to not be one of the Unseen/Reseen, nor one of their "C/IIC" incarnations.
Which options would you then consider?
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On a side note: I wonder if there might be a way to deploy a Seeker-tailored version of the Elemental Headhunter variant.
Many of the bespoke features of that variant make it useful for a Seeker quest - though the fixed machine gun might be an issue if the goal is to minimize the amount of ammunition needed to be carried in the Seeker's DropShip...
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To me, that sounds an awful lot like a Nova or Stormcrow, depending on taste.
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So, to narrow things down a little:
If one were to say that, for the purpose of a given quest, the Seeker involved was to choose a 'Mech - be it an OmniMech or a non-Omni BattleMech - from a given Era's Imperio/Empire MUL listing, but with the following stipulations:
*The 'Mech has to have both left and right hand actuators - and both have to be for actual 'Mech hands, not for claws,
*The 'Mech has to either have an all-energy variant and/or configuration, or at least have as minimal an ammunition requirement as possible,
and, to make things more awkward/interesting,
*The 'Mech has to not be one of the Unseen/Reseen, nor one of their "C/IIC" incarnations.
Which options would you then consider?
Add in the
Hellhound (Unless it's to close to a IIC variant)
Black Knight
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I'll second that Black Knight, it's got the hands, lasers, and even a Beagle.
If you want something smaller that's less likely to collapse(or get stuck in) treacherous terrain...not many medium options if you rule out the classic IICs, though there is the Wyvern IIC. On the light end for those who really want maneuvering ability, you might look at the Peregrine or Drift Shag.
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Oh I like the idea of using a Black Knight! If your Seeker wants a real challenge, though, the Phoenix Hawk -1, -3D and -3S are all on the MUL, too.
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BLAH....
Spirit Walker (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Spirit_Walker)
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/thumb/0/09/Black_Knight_RGilClan_v12.png/287px-e3sj2t2eu8c2n7tnq9szn8y7wxamwit.png?timestamp=20210610211613)
TT
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*The 'Mech has to have both left and right hand actuators - and both have to be for actual 'Mech hands, not for claws,
*The 'Mech has to either have an all-energy variant and/or configuration, or at least have as minimal an ammunition requirement as possible,
and, to make things more awkward/interesting,
*The 'Mech has to not be one of the Unseen/Reseen, nor one of their "C/IIC" incarnations.
Which options would you then consider?
....
I say buy domestic:
- Horned Owl
- Hellion
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According to the MUL, the Spirit Walker would be available to Clan Goliath Scorpion through to the Clan Invasion Era, but not thereafter. (Apparently, the last one known to exist outside of the Homeworlds was in Clan Wolf, and it seems to have been lost by the onset of the IlClan Era.)
The Scorpions do still have access to the -6b variant of the Black Knight proper, as of June 3152. Although, since it's not an OmniMech, other transport options would be required for a would-be attendant Point of battle armour.
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To make things even more awkward/interesting:
What if the 'Mech, in addition to the limitations noted above, had to either have an active probe installed as standard, or was able to have one installed without too much trouble?
Well, I suppose an OmniMech would have the advantage there, since they could simply use available pod space to install one, if required to do so.
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And on a less orthodox note: is there a way for a 'Mech - or a suit of battle armour - to approximate the use of the zulkari?
As in, for it to carry two short blades, which the 'Mech (or suit) could draw and/or sheath if required?
If so, where on the 'Mech (or suit) could - or perhaps must - they be stored when not in use?
And in terms of the actual blades themselves, would the Scorpions have access to vibroblade technology, or would such blades have to be "standard" bladed weapons?
Of course, most Clan MechWarriors are not keen on "augmented" physical combat - though Elemental warriors are no strangers to the concept. But on the off chance the Seeker is a bit too enthusiastic about being able to try an oversized Dance of the Scars, can it in fact be done?
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Sounds like a lot of steps to get us to say "Yes, the Black Knight is a good idea." Heck, a lot of us have already said it. :)
If you're concerned about not having any APCs for your troops, just use Afreet armor. They're accomplished scout suits, and 4 Jump means they have little issue keeping up with a 4/6 mech in any terrain more complex than a salt flat, reducing the need for any transport in combat. (And for cross-country travel, a flatbed truck will do just fine.)
As for zulkari, there is no mechanism for a mech with those, short of actually modifying the mech and mounting a hatchet/sword/vibroblade in each arm, or a retractable blade if you really want that visual.
As for suits, the aforementioned Afreet already mounts vibro claws, which in the art are portrayed as retractable blades.
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Although, since it's not an OmniMech, other transport options would be required for a would-be attendant Point of battle armour.
I gave the Scorpion Empire battlesuits with mag clamps for a reason.
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I am curious if there much relics left in the Inner Sphere to justify much of a expedition from the Scorpion Empire, though we have seen something mentioned in Canon recently as far as illClan late Dark Age goes. Kerensky's Orion cockpit.
I just don't know, how much resources they can splurge on the Seekers, though I can see the Empire slipping in some Watch agents among the Seekers to pick some Intel up about what's going on in the Inner Sphere.
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The Inner Sphere is almost a thousand years old. There's plenty of crap out there for collectors to drool over.
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The Inner Sphere is almost a thousand years old. There's plenty of crap out there for collectors to drool over.
Not to mention they collect more modern examples. In their possession they have a whiskey bottle that commemorates Hanse and Melissa’s wedding. It would not surprise me if Phelan Wards “Grinner” is either in their care or on their “shopping list”. They may prize Star League products but won’t turn their nose at other historical items.
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It would be interesting to see the Scorpions consider the degree to which they might be open to using some of their "museum pieces" as negotiation items, with the increased prospect of further contact with the Clans of the Inner Sphere and near Periphery.
Say, for example, that by the time the Scorpions complete their HPG relay line from the Empire proper to the Chaine Cluster, the Sea Foxes have made more progress in terms of re-establishing enough HPG stations to permit a link from Braunschweig all the way to Terra. Which might open up the possibility of direct communications between the Scorpions and the Wolves, should the latter be minded to consider un-Abjuring the former.
The Scorpions' possession of functioning HPGs would already act as a powerful leverage, not least if they were open to working with the Sea Foxes in terms of (re-)expanding the network into the "north-west" area of the Inner Sphere. But once the Scorpions learn that the Great Father has been entombed at Unity City on Terra itself, perhaps an offer to return Kerensky senior"s Orion to the Wolves might act as a symbolic mark of reconciliation?
Although, even if the Scorpions are one day allowed to visit Terra openly, there would probably be a limit as to exactly how much isorla they would be permitted to ship back home with them thereafter...
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To clarify, is it possible for BattleMech-sized retractable blades to themselves be vibroblades? And can an OmniMech use some of its pod space to equip such things?
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To clarify, is it possible for BattleMech-sized retractable blades to themselves be vibroblades?
No. Retractable blades and Vibroblades are two radically different pieces of equipment. And can an OmniMech use some of its pod space to equip such things?
Both can be pod-mounted. All the Celestials have a retractable blade in their primary config, and at the least, there's a Doloire config with a vibroblade.
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Thank you kindly so far, everyone!
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Okay, so if one were to take the Nova chassis as a test sample:
By my understanding, since this OmniMech weighs in at 50 tons, a pair of retractable blades would weigh six tons in total (2.5 tons per blade, plus 0.5 tons per extension/retraction mechanism). Yet these would take up eight critical slots overall (3 tons per blade, plus an added ton per e/r mechanism).
So if one were to modify the Prime variant in order to make room for these weapons, one might remove two ER medium lasers and a double heat sink per arm, in order to free up both the tonnage and the crit space required.
But if one wanted to add in an active probe, one of the DHSs on the torso (left or right side) would have to go in exchange?
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As an alternative, perhaps one could adjust the A variant by replacing the medium pulse laser with an active probe and an ER medium laser, while swapping out the anti-missile systems and ammo for a pair of laser anti-missile systems (to eliminate the ammunition requirement imposed by the "standard" AMS). Or, to make things more dramatic, how about removing the AMSs and the torso laser to fit both an active probe and a targeting computer for the ER PPCs?
In principle, since each of the above configs would be all-energy loadouts, there could be enough space on a given DropShip to load the pods for them, and to hot-swap them if called upon to do so. (Say, if the Seeker is challenged to fight a Trial against another Clan MechWarrior under the rules of zellbrigen, in which case the latter variant might be less likely to be declared chalcas by their opponent...)
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As an aside, I see in the TechManual that removing the hand and lower arm actuators on an OmniMech "refunds" the crit space needed for those joints. But is there a tonnage "refund" for these systems also, or is this already factored into the tonnage of the heavy weapons being installed in their place?
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Thank you kindly so far, everyone!
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--SNIP--
Suggest re-asking in the design forum area.
TT
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I'm trying to brainstorm a unit of Scorpion colonial garrison troops, for when they were expanding via colonization prior to the Crusade. (Is colonization still going on?) Thinking about the early days of a colony when it consists of little more than one or two settlements plus outlying farms, etc, I can't imagine them needing more than a Star of solahma troops.
I'm imagining this colonial militia Star as consisting of three Ad Hoc Infantry (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/601/ad-hoc-clan-foot-infantry) Points as the main fighting force(commandeering civilian vehicles when transport is needed, plus two Points of Trackbikes (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7811/trackbike) for recon and patrol duties. This formation would be backed up by a single Point of Defender Conventional Fighters (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2156/medium-strike-fighter-defender).
Seem reasonable? My intent to is convey a token garrison for an area not really expected to see any combat, but Clan doctrine demands there be at least some military presence on planet.
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Sounds fine to me, but since the Imperio (since you're referring to pre-Crusade times) has access to both MilitiaMechs and (:evil:) ProtoMechs, there's no reason you couldn't throw in either of those options as cheap alternatives to BattleMechs, either. And since there seemed to be an implied intent of those colonies to bridge the gap between the Imperio and the Hansa in preparation for their future Crusade, it stands to reason that they might want to be prepared to see a little combat in a pinch.
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Sounds like a fine garrison force, Weirdo. Out of curiosity, how many Trackbikes do you plan on putting into a point? 2 like any other vehicle? Because I've been toying with the idea of organizing them like battle armor (5 to a point), if I ever get around of building my Barrens / new Oberon post-clan binary...
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I'm trying to brainstorm a unit of Scorpion colonial garrison troops, for when they were expanding via colonization prior to the Crusade. (Is colonization still going on?) Thinking about the early days of a colony when it consists of little more than one or two settlements plus outlying farms, etc, I can't imagine them needing more than a Star of solahma troops.
I'm imagining this colonial militia Star as consisting of three Ad Hoc Infantry (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/601/ad-hoc-clan-foot-infantry) Points as the main fighting force(commandeering civilian vehicles when transport is needed, plus two Points of Trackbikes (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/7811/trackbike) for recon and patrol duties. This formation would be backed up by a single Point of Defender Conventional Fighters (http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/2156/medium-strike-fighter-defender).
Seem reasonable? My intent to is convey a token garrison for an area not really expected to see any combat, but Clan doctrine demands there be at least some military presence on planet.
I would throw in a star of Battlemechs. Mostly Inner Sphere castoffs with two functioning hands used to help build but to defend if necessary. I can see older warriors willing to build something that will last if they have not earned a bloodname or a place in their rememberance.
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Why not Fast Recon?
TT
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As requested, I moved that last part of the Seeker discussion to its own thread (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=84737.0), in case anyone here is interested.
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According to Operational Turning Points: Hanseatic Crusade, the initial settlement of the colony world now known as Holdout was overseen by the Third Imperial Guards Cluster, which was five Trinaries in strength at the onset of the attack by RDF 2. Although, it"s not clear if the Guards were a part of Omega Galaxy at the time, or if they were a PGC specifically drawn up for deployment to this world.
Also, Spotlight On: Hellion Keshik speaks of how that unit was on-station at what was then the new colony of Graystone when they were faced with a pirate attack on that colony.
Plus, there is that story in Shrapnel - I forget in which issue - where the fate of the last ProtoMech pilot in the Imperio was told. I'm fairly sure that took place on one of the "new' colony planets - though I forget which one...
While during the Hanseatic Crusade itself, the Hansa counterattacks against Hallelujah, Glory, and Graystone each played out differently, though it is noted that the RGC on Graystone had been reduced to a single Binary, as the rest of the Cluster had been sent off-world to reinforce the three border colonies. (Perhaps for that reason, the HDF attack on Hallelujah was successfully driven off.)
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All told, there should be plenty of opportunities to see detachments from across the touman being deployed to the new colonies, as well as for new PGCs to be commissioned for the express purpose of protecting each world as it develops.
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The PGCs on those colony worlds were intended as a deterrent against Hanseatic League raiders. There's much less threat now, so there would probably be less incentive to assign sizable defense forces to such sites. As to whether or not they are still colonizing, such efforts would probably take a back seat to exploiting the former League worlds in proper Clan fashion.
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True, there are a lot of Hansa planets that need working on
Some light colonization is still taking place
Gottenring was a new one from Moving Forward
Also from Star Python writeup in RecGuides we know that Scorpions called dibs on Kinbrace very recently
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Had entire post thought out, but neither the world nor my brain will shut up long enough to string it all together.
Proto Point is very good idea, will probably drop no more than one infantry Point for them. Thanks, forgot this was during the golden age.
2 Trackbikes to a Point, because tiny vees are still vees.
Track instead of hover because unless you can tell from orbit that the area has a lot of waterways, tracks are better for scouting across rugged, unfamiliar land.
Doesn't have to be garrison for entire colony, could just be solahma group guarding an isolated settlement, or whatever makes sense in your head.
No more than 1 Star + Air in size, not looking to see this grow too big.
What colors? Omega Galaxy, one of the second line ones, Grunt Caste?
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Thinking more, really liking the idea of ProtoMechs in new colonies, because like big mechs they've got hands and lifting abilities for general work, but probably need less infrastructure than full mechs.
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I double-checked, and Dying Breed is in Shrapnel #12.
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Since the above story is set in 3099, any PGC with even one ProtoMech present (other than the one featured in the story itself, that is) would probably have to be set in the early-to-mid-3090s, at the latest.
Also, if it is to appear on one of the "new" colony worlds, it would quite likely have to be Graystone. Note that the world eventually known as Holdout - which itself is said to be only the third new colony world in the region - does not begin to be settled until 3112. So that would mean Greystone was either the first or second of the new colonies.
(Perhaps Winston was the other one to be founded prior to Holdout, given its location relative to the nearest "old" Nueva Castile systems?)
That said, it's noted that the 314th PGC had been on-world at least long enough to have been depleted by a Hansa-backed privateer raid early in 3099. (As in, the raid dramatized n the Shrapnel story was the second to take place on Greystone that same year.) So if you wanted a "named" force to go with, they'd be a reasonable candidate.
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3099, the year the Scorpions stopped being as cool. It was a glorious 25 years, wasn’t it, Weirdo? :laugh:
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What colors? Omega Galaxy, one of the second line ones, Grunt Caste?
Colonial militia without militia mechs is like cheeseburger without cheese
Couple of Quixote Industries staple products would definitely fit right in (and would be practically given away since that's their whole design requirement)
As for colors standard SLDF green would be quite appropriate, practical and nostalgic
Or a cammo pattern that fits local environment, personally I would just say that they work in arctic area as an excuse to paint them in winter cammo, I love that style
White/blue/grey all the way
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Colonial militia without militia mechs is like cheeseburger without cheese
I live in the US. That's already true of 90% of the so-called cheeseburgers in this country.
I'd love to include militiamechs in this, but at this point we start to run out of Points in this Star. I *really* want to have the infantry and the small support vees, and stuff like that really only becomes useful in numbers.
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Where are the track bikes from? Do they have stats?
I would place 1 mech for a force commander
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They're from TRO Irregulars.
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They're from TRO Irregulars.
are they stated out?? or just fluffed out as an infanty type?
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All of the small support vees in TRO Irregulars got full stats and record sheets.
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All of the small support vees in TRO Irregulars got full stats and record sheets.
Happy Dance. now need to secure a copy. Will have to check the gamestore
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I don't think it got a paper release. I think it's pdf-only.
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I don't think it got a paper release. I think it's pdf-only.
thanks for the heads up