BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Universe => Clan Chatterweb => Topic started by: worktroll on 07 September 2021, 03:57:47
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New thread! Falcon hard with mindfulness (and a lack of plaid!)
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So, as a long gone BT player (pre Jihad) I just came back to check my beloved clan and...... what a mess.
If I understand correctly, after breezing through the Dark Age era, right now (I don't have the ilClan book yet) our OZ is basically free estate, we're down to one galaxy and we've become Alaric's footmen ( which is in a way expected after how we've been built up as the foil for Clan Wolf with Melvina and the Mongols, yuk).
So, is there any light of hope I am not privy to? Should I paint my mechs black? :))
On a side note, if you had to start picking up TRO and recogs,which ones would you start from?
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If I understand correctly, after breezing through the Dark Age era, right now (I don't have the ilClan book yet) our OZ is basically free estate, we're down to one galaxy and we've become Alaric's footmen ( which is in a way expected after how we've been built up as the foil for Clan Wolf with Melvina and the Mongols, yuk).
So, is there any light of hope I am not privy to? Should I paint my mechs black? :))
Hmm... well, if you change Alaric's "footmen" to "praetorian guard", there may be a light of hope that history will repeat itself there :smirk:
Or another slice of history may rhyme: Clan Jade Wolf 2.0 will be the ashes from which the Jade Falcon shall rise again!
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Hmm... well, if you change Alaric's "footmen" to "praetorian guard", there may be a light of hope that history will repeat itself there :smirk:
Or another slice of history may rhyme: Clan Jade Wolf 2.0 will be the ashes from which the Jade Falcon shall rise again!
That's a very...shiny interpretation, but he's got it right-Clan Jade Falcon have been relegated to a ceremonial guard wholly owned by Alaric Ward. They have lost all their infrastructure and most of their personnel and leadership, and had the top spot replaced by a mercenary owned by Alaric Ward. they don't have a Vlad, or a Marthe, they've got a hireling, and they're logistically dependent upon their sponsors to keep eating.
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So, as a long gone BT player (pre Jihad) I just came back to check my beloved clan and...... what a mess.
If I understand correctly, after breezing through the Dark Age era, right now (I don't have the ilClan book yet) our OZ is basically free estate, we're down to one galaxy and we've become Alaric's footmen ( which is in a way expected after how we've been built up as the foil for Clan Wolf with Melvina and the Mongols, yuk).
So, is there any light of hope I am not privy to? Should I paint my mechs black? :))
On a side note, if you had to start picking up TRO and recogs,which ones would you start from?
Well, there's the [redacted] which you can read about in [redacted], coming soon!
Were I a falcon, I'd paint my 'Mechs green with a single black band.
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That's a very...shiny interpretation, but he's got it right-Clan Jade Falcon have been relegated to a ceremonial guard wholly owned by Alaric Ward. They have lost all their infrastructure and most of their personnel and leadership, and had the top spot replaced by a mercenary owned by Alaric Ward. they don't have a Vlad, or a Marthe, they've got a hireling, and they're logistically dependent upon their sponsors to keep eating.
And ALL of it was worth it to be rid of Malvina and what she had turned the Clan into.
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The Falcons have a bright future! At least as good a future as the Smoke Jaguars.
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The Falcons have a bright future! At least as good a future as the Smoke Jaguars.
Well, as I said, I am picking up the lore as I go right now, but the whole Mongol affair felt a betrayal of the spirit of the CJF for an old timer like me.... that being said, I'd rather not go the Comstar way tbh....
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I certainly hope that the Falcons have their own planets to draw on. As the Sea Foxes have proven, you only need a handful of planets to be a player.
I'm an old timer too, though. I read Way of the Clans, Bloodname, and Falcon Guard first. That was my intro to BT fiction and it colored my whole experience. I evolved from a Jade Falcon to a Shark Fox as I got older, but I still remember the Falcons. And that will never change.
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That's a very...shiny interpretation, but he's got it right-Clan Jade Falcon have been relegated to a ceremonial guard wholly owned by Alaric Ward. They have lost all their infrastructure and most of their personnel and leadership, and had the top spot replaced by a mercenary owned by Alaric Ward. they don't have a Vlad, or a Marthe, they've got a hireling, and they're logistically dependent upon their sponsors to keep eating.
This post is full of assumptions or outright incorrect statements. Status of infrastructure is up in the air until its in print somewhere. The Khan is Stephanie Chistu, not Tara Jade Falcon. They are no more "wholly owned" by Alaric than the Smoke Jaguars. The Falcon navy is still multiple large cruisers strong and that kind of concentration of warships can go wherever and take from whomever they want to.
Realistically the result is going to be somewhere in the middle, but let's at least keep things accurate.
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they don't have a Vlad, or a Marthe,
Vlad was a Wolf, so I'm not sure why the Falcons would want one.
They do have lots of Pryde(s), including Archer Pryde, protoganist of Honor's Gauntlet.
And Chistu(s), including Stephanie Chistu, their new Khan.
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May they have many more honored bloodnamed in future work, and may their ristars shine.
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Vlad was a Wolf, so I'm not sure why the Falcons would want one.
They do have lots of Pryde(s), including Archer Pryde, protoganist of Honor's Gauntlet.
And Chistu(s), including Stephanie Chistu, their new Khan.
I assume in the sense of someone able to drag them through the lean times.
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I assume in the sense of someone able to drag them through the lean times.
Isn’t that exactly what Stephanie Christu and Aidan Pryde have been set up as?
Sensible, strong leaders that the Clan needs to build back stronger?
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Isn’t that exactly what Stephanie Christu and Aidan Pryde have been set up as?
Sensible, strong leaders that the Clan needs to build back stronger?
Archer Pryde?
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I hope Archer survived. He needs another novel.
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I hope Archer survived. He needs another novel.
I have to admit, he and his team are some of the few Falcons I actually started liking.
Ruger
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I hope Archer survived. He needs another novel.
And one that doesn't effectively retread Noritomo Helmer.
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According to the data in IlClan, Khalus Pryde is the new saKhan; Marv Roshak is the new Loremaster; and Archer Pryde is alive and well... or, a least, well enough to have been present to nominate Khalus for the post of saKhan.
Speaking of Noritomo Helmer, he's the new Loremaster of the Star League, who presided over the ilClan accession ceremony.
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I think the shattered remains of the Falcons are in good hands.
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According to the data in IlClan, Khalus Pryde is the new saKhan; Marv Roshak is the new Loremaster; and Archer Pryde is alive and well... or, a least, well enough to have been present to nominate Khalus for the post of saKhan.
All three of those characters were kickstarter backers!
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the sole purpose of this post is to nominate worktroll for thread title of the year
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It's the 'may', isn't it? I mean, it's still just possible we may not have ...
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I personally don't mind being the "bodyguard clan." It better than nothing and fits the Jade Falcon's history. Our first Khan, Elizabeth Hazen was a member of the Royal Black Watch Regiment, and that's just for starters.
That's a very...shiny interpretation, but he's got it right-Clan Jade Falcon have been relegated to a ceremonial guard wholly owned by Alaric Ward. They have lost all their infrastructure and most of their personnel and leadership, and had the top spot replaced by a mercenary owned by Alaric Ward. they don't have a Vlad, or a Marthe, they've got a hireling, and they're logistically dependent upon their sponsors to keep eating.
Inaccuracies aside, what I get from this is that there are lots of Bloodnames up for grabs. :)
The Falcon navy is still multiple large cruisers strong and that kind of concentration of warships can go wherever and take from whomever they want to.
Who's up for beating on the Draconis Combine? >:D
I think the shattered remains of the Falcons are in good hands.
Us new recruits will restore the Clan's prestige!
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This post is full of assumptions or outright incorrect statements. Status of infrastructure is up in the air until its in print somewhere. The Khan is Stephanie Chistu, not Tara Jade Falcon. They are no more "wholly owned" by Alaric than the Smoke Jaguars. The Falcon navy is still multiple large cruisers strong and that kind of concentration of warships can go wherever and take from whomever they want to.
Realistically the result is going to be somewhere in the middle, but let's at least keep things accurate.
The issue is warships are plot devices and only give as much power to a faction as TPTB give them, the falcons could have double the amount of them as the SL did in its entire history and it would mean nothing if TPTB want them to mean nothing, this isn't a you're wrong post just a don't base your expectations on warships post, they could be the Falcons saving grace, they could be hit by sabotage from former LA patriots turned falcon tech cast, they could all miss jump into Alaric's shower cubical it's in the minds and hands pens of others until it's in print.
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It's true. If warships truly meant anything, the Snow Ravens would be one of the more powerful factions, but they're not.
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Warships are effectively meaningless except as a means to ram things and to pretend a situation is more dangerous than it is so that you CAN run them into stuff. When they aren't being run into things, they are just bigger transports for your dropships, it's like saying someone's army is really powerful because they have a lot of eighteen wheel trucks.
Here's a joke: HOw do you get rid of 20% of Clan Snow Raven's warrior caste?
Naval battle. They'll ram and ram and ram and before you know it? one fifth of their total forces are gone and they've still lost the battle-because it was on the ground.
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Here's a joke: HOw do you get rid of 20% of Clan Snow Raven's warrior caste?
Naval battle. They'll ram and ram and ram and before you know it? one fifth of their total forces are gone and they've still lost the battle-because it was on the ground.
It's sad-funny because it's true.
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That is why it will be interesting to see where the Jade Falcons go next. Will they hold on to their ideals or will they take another direction that would make the 3050 leaders spin in their grave.
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I haven't read either book yet and only know what I've been told/read.
That being said do the Jade Falcons still have an occupation zone? If they do then there should be a lab somewhere for growing babies. It will take some time but they could have all the personel they need. Equipment would be harder to replace. Maybe they can salvage the stuff they lost during the battle; unless Clan Wolf does a Trial of Possession.
Clan Jade Falcon, per both IlClan and the book that came before, is essentially a rump force inside the walls of terra, and a few scattered individuals with nothing of effective military value on what is about to become Hell's Horses new real-estate (with a few token worlds for the Lyrans, provided they can get somehow organized and win with 100 to one numerical superiority-something that, being lyrans, is not a guarantee.)
Steiner Scout Lances should be able to help with that. ;)
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it's fair to say that Clan Jade Falcon is nothing more than Clan Wolf's slightly less competent handicapped sidekick.
Ah. But you forget. Clan Jade Falcon has been given a POV Inner Sphere novel character in a ranking position. The only way a Clan can ever be competent is to have a Spheroid pulling the strings.
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The only factions who ram with warships are the Federated Suns and the Republic of the Sphere. Everyone else has relied on their guns.
And warships are useful as orbital artillery systems and in blocking reinforcements to worlds that are being invaded.
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That being said do the Jade Falcons still have an occupation zone?
Theoretically, yes. In practice? It's a safe bet that OZ is going to shrink very soon. Tamar Rising will be out in a couple of months so we'll find out exactly how much shrinkage soon enough.
Ah. But you forget. Clan Jade Falcon has been given a POV Inner Sphere novel character in a ranking position. The only way a Clan can ever be competent is to have a Spheroid pulling the strings.
Marthe Pryde seemed to do pretty well with the hand she was dealt without any Spheroids pulling her strings. For that matter so did Vlad Ward, and Ulric Kerensky before him - he was pulling Phelan's strings during Revival, not the other way around, and dealt with Focht on an equal footing not a supplicant.
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1991 was a long time ago
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We have to wait for Tamar Rising to see if the Jade Falcons have anything in the OZ. Considering it was stripped clean of everything (and everyone) Malvina deemed useful it would be interesting to see who comes out on top.
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I do think the Falcons took less with them than the Wolves to Terra. They left more Second-Line, Provisional Garrison Clusters, and Solahma troops back in the OZ.
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I do think the Falcons took less with them than the Wolves to Terra. They left more Second-Line, Provisional Garrison Clusters, and Solahma troops back in the OZ.
The book (HotW) made it seem like they left almost nothing. They just came in piecemeal due to Malvinas haste.
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The book (HotW) made it seem like they left almost nothing. They just came in piecemeal due to Malvinas haste.
That was my impression as well. Basically Malvina took everything but the old broken down kitchen sinks, and only left what she deemed completely useless, even for cannon fodder.
Ruger
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The only factions who ram with warships are the Federated Suns and the Republic of the Sphere. Everyone else has relied on their guns.
And warships are useful as orbital artillery systems and in blocking reinforcements to worlds that are being invaded.
Malvina. Rammed. a. PLANET.
for the net gain of one lost warship and the destruction of a city.
Lost warship being the one she rammed into the planet.
which in a way is a twofer- orbital bombardment PLUS ramming. You might say it's wht you get when you have Warriors who sometimes go into space,instead of spacers who sometimes go to war, or just accept that in the strategy manuals everyone is using, Ramming is a major featured part of the curriculum in the same way that human wave charges with bayonets affixed were an accepted tactic in 1914-18, despite the very real and apparent costs-armies did it because they didn't know what else to do.
which in turn has a certain shock value the first couple of times you do it, and with the practice being widespread, a certain accepted level of 'success' necessary to keep the theory of doing that in favour and within acceptance. Remember that 'Glory' is what others see you doing, and the Clans are all about "Honour and Glory".
even when it makes no practical sense.
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Well, as I said, I am picking up the lore as I go right now, but the whole Mongol affair felt a betrayal of the spirit of the CJF for an old timer like me.... that being said, I'd rather not go the Comstar way tbh....
I thought the novel Children of Kerensky helped explain why Malvina was permitted to develop such violent tendencies which led her down her path. https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/collections/battletech/products/battletech-children-of-kerensky
On a side note, if you had to start picking up TRO and recogs, which ones would you start from?
My answer would be all of them, since I just enjoy that aspect of the universe so much. But for you it depends, do you just want info on the new Falcon units? If so, then check out Rec Guides 3 (Hierofalcon), 11 (Ion Sparrow aka "Butcherbird"), and 22 when it's release for the Jade Phoenix.
If you want Rec Guide updates to older Falcon favorites there's Rec Guides 1 (Hellbringer), 3 (Summoner), 11 (Kit Fox), 14 (Nova), 15 (Fire Falcon & Black Lanner), and 16 (Turkina).
If you want new units from the Jihad & Dark Age eras there's TRO3075 (Jupiter), TRO 3085 (Shadow Cat II, Flamberge, Onager), TRO 3145 (Eyrie, Gyrfalcon, Shrike), TRO 3150 (Hel aka Loki mk II, Grand Summoner aka Thor II, Jade Hawk).
And of course an assortment of BA, vehicles, & aero stuff in each of the TROs
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I thought the novel Children of Kerensky helped explain why Malvina was permitted to develop such violent tendencies which led her down her path. https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/collections/battletech/products/battletech-children-of-kerensky
My answer would be all of them, since I just enjoy that aspect of the universe so much. But for you it depends, do you just want info on the new Falcon units? If so, then check out Rec Guides 3 (Hierofalcon), 11 (Ion Sparrow aka "Butcherbird"), and 22 when it's release for the Jade Phoenix.
If you want Rec Guide updates to older Falcon favorites there's Rec Guides 1 (Hellbringer), 3 (Summoner), 11 (Kit Fox), 14 (Nova), 15 (Fire Falcon & Black Lanner), and 16 (Turkina).
If you want new units from the Jihad & Dark Age eras there's TRO3075 (Jupiter), TRO 3085 (Shadow Cat II, Flamberge, Onager), TRO 3145 (Eyrie, Gyrfalcon, Shrike), TRO 3150 (Hel aka Loki mk II, Grand Summoner aka Thor II, Jade Hawk).
And of course an assortment of BA, vehicles, & aero stuff in each of the TROs
Thanks, good advice here... I think I'll stack all rec guides for completion and then pick a few TRO to begin with.
About Melvina, as I said I am still picking up the lore, then again whoever though that good things could have come from nurturing a nutcase needs to be reassigned as live ammo for a LRM imho.
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Speaking of naval actions. I didn't see an accounting anywhere--how strong is the Falcon fleet post ilClan? Do they get to keep their fleet as the honor guard escorts to the ilClan, or is it isorla? Because IIRC, they had a very strong fleet with several Aegis class cruisers.
Just Curious!
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Speaking of naval actions. I didn't see an accounting anywhere--how strong is the Falcon fleet post ilClan? Do they get to keep their fleet as the honor guard escorts to the ilClan, or is it isorla? Because IIRC, they had a very strong fleet with several Aegis class cruisers.
Just Curious!
Honestly, I could see them trading ships to the Sea Foxes, or maybe the Ravens, in exchange for much needed material, new 'Mechs, maybe even warriors... after a suitable trade trial of course ;)
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Malvina. Rammed. a. PLANET.
for the net gain of one lost warship and the destruction of a city.
Lost warship being the one she rammed into the planet.
The WarShip that was already doomed, you mean? Destroying the city that her entire opposition was seated in at the climax of a civil war?
She lost a WarShip and she gained the Jade Falcon Clan. Let's not do that thing where we pretend characters are acting without any logic at all, just to grind an axe.
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Finally got time to go through ilClan. At the risk of sounding melodramatic I can't really think of what to say just yet.
The previous thread lasted almost seven years. I wonder where we'll be when this thread closes.
I initially mistyped melotramatic and had a good laugh at the (freudian?) typo.
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That was my impression as well. Basically Malvina took everything but the old broken down kitchen sinks, and only left what she deemed completely useless, even for cannon fodder.
Ruger
I think the Jade Falcons were a more traditional Clan and would not bring Second-Line troops to such an important battle.
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I think the Jade Falcons were a more traditional Clan and would not bring Second-Line troops to such an important battle.
at one point they were traditional, they now crash ships into planets when they get mad.
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Most of the “cannon fodder” was used getting to Terra. Some might have been left behind either in the OZ or on the battlefield but I suspect they will last as long as the average mercenary group in the initial Clan invasion.
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at one point they were traditional, they now crash ships into planets when they get mad.
Hey, it was once, and the ship was broken before we did it!
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All true.
But it was a Nightlord class. Just ask the Ravens how many man-hours that was.
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"If you can't afford to lose it, you can't afford to use it"- we should all take some pointers from Liz Ngo :thumbsup:
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If you go ree harder than the ghost bears, well...
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All true.
But it was a Nightlord class. Just ask the Ravens how many man-hours that was.
Or how many usable systems, pieces of expensive equipment, or the raw material value is-especially when you don't have a robust Naval Construction infrastructure and you need trade-bait to sell the Sea Foxes for more weapons. Scrap value alone is enough to equip a few extra clusters or even a galaxy if you're in an expansion mood, and this wasn't even a stripped hulk.
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You know, you all can keep ragging on about one incident involving the fiction's most over the top villain, or you can go back to ragging on the Feddies who have a track record as long as your arm.
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You know, you all can keep ragging on about one incident involving the fiction's most over the top villain, or you can go back to ragging on the Feddies who have a track record as long as your arm.
Who us? We don't even have a navy. Just some dropships. Nothing to see here! *whistles while walking away*
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It is the Fedrat go-to maneuver.
"RAMMING SPEED!!"
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You know, you all can keep ragging on about one incident involving the fiction's most over the top villain, or you can go back to ragging on the Feddies who have a track record as long as your arm.
It's not just the FedRats though. From Kerensky onward, it's clearly in the books as a 'go-to' move, we only get to rag on the feddies because they got enough of the things to start doing it again, and enough ink so we could watch them doing it again. not just that, but AFTER the Feddies fed their navy to the sheep-god...well... 'ilClan' happened AFTER malvina.
Clearly then, Warships are just battering rams with some transportation uses and occasional O.B. usage, and it's wide-spread enough that it's really quite reasonable to presume the move is standard across ALL navies as a go-to tactic, it's just that Malvina cleverly combined it with orbital bombardment rather than merely doing one or the other.
one might even call it 'innovative', which is something you RARELY say about Jade Falcons.
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But we have a case where a meglomaniac nihilist in a YA fictional universe who happens to have the power to do so crashed an already failing vessel into a city as an abject lesson in opposing her.
It was the only incident like it in Falcon history.
By contrast, how many Taurians likely died as suicide crews during the Reunification Wars? Or the Fedrats, as said.
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one might even call it 'innovative', which is something you RARELY say about Jade Falcons.
And yes, that's how - I think - the author portrayed that incident; that there was no depth Malvina would not plumb to terrorise her potential future opponents by visiting destruction on her current opponents. That's the Mongol doctrine taken to an extreme.
The FedRat Ramming Lust? I suspect it sounded cool at the time, but like most joke tactics it's faded fast. First time you're a wit, second time you're a half wit, and it decays exponentially from there. And let's just agree not to discuss the naval 'brilliance' in HotW. IMHO, lazy writing.
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But we have a case where a meglomaniac nihilist in a YA fictional universe who happens to have the power to do so crashed an already failing vessel into a city as an abject lesson in opposing her.
It was the only incident like it in Falcon history.
And yes, that's how - I think - the author portrayed that incident; that there was no depth Malvina would not plumb to terrorise her potential future opponents by visiting destruction on her current opponents. That's the Mongol doctrine taken to an extreme.
That's how I read it as well. Malvina did it once, to make a statement and wipe out most of her opposition in one swoop, potentially avoiding a long civil war rending that would have weakened the Clan more. And it's not like the Falcon navy had no other WarShips to spare.
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That's how I read it as well. Malvina did it once, to make a statement and wipe out most of her opposition in one swoop, potentially avoiding a long civil war rending that would have weakened the Clan more. And it's not like the Falcon navy had no other WarShips to spare.
The Falcons love them some Aegis cruisers. Good, strong, (and ancient at 700 years old and older) Terran Hegemony ships that predate the Star League.
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And it's not like the Falcon navy had no other WarShips to spare.
I doubt that part would have crossed Malvina's mind.
Now, I feel - partly because I'm probably older than most - that I get the Falcon twist on the Mongol doctrine. The Horses were all about strike fast, strike hard, etc - but [note: all in character, not my personal belief] the Falcons have been considering themselves the epitome of Clan ideals for ages, and the savrishi Spheroids just won't roll over and accept this! And the other Clans are all jealous, which is why they behave in underhanded ways to deny us! And after centuries of trying/being that good, the Universe still doesn't behave!
And given this frustration, some Falcons just feel "I am mad as hell, and I am not going to take any more! No more Mr. Nice Falcon (for given values of "nice".) You get one chance, and one chance only, and then it's whoop-ass all the way down, because I'm not wasting my time on uppity surats.
And that's a philosophical approach I could appreciate in a fictional faction, used as a protagonist not a hero faction. But I'm in two minds whether Malvina was just lazy writing, or an inevitable consequence of both the approach and Clan ways - the same way Leo Showers rose to the IlKhanship prior to the Invasion (which was also not a Good Thing in the long run.)
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Now that Malvina may be spoken of in past tense (huzah!), the Falcons have to actually role play. I can't wait to find ot where the new Khans will take them, and I'm pleased they survived Chingis Khan..
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And that's a philosophical approach I could appreciate in a fictional faction, used as a protagonist not a hero faction. But I'm in two minds whether Malvina was just lazy writing, or an inevitable consequence of both the approach and Clan ways - the same way Leo Showers rose to the IlKhanship prior to the Invasion (which was also not a Good Thing in the long run.)
Malvina as a villain was her own belligerent brand of evil and was quite good. And it was predictable that she would break the Falcons. As said, I am glad they were not completely destroyed and I look forward to what's ahead. But right now the Falcons are a shadow of what they were.
Brett Andrews was the same way. Different but same, that old conflict of dichotomy. He was refashioned into a tool to bring destruction to excess factions, and a story was weaved around his rise and fall, and aftermath as well.
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I doubt that part would have crossed Malvina's mind.
True.
Malvina as a villain was her own belligerent brand of evil and was quite good. And it was predictable that she would break the Falcons. As said, I am glad they were not completely destroyed and I look forward to what's ahead. But right now the Falcons are a shadow of what they were.
Same. Hopefully we'll see the Clan as a whole become the Jade Phoenix and emulate their totem: smaller than the wolf or ghost bear, but just as ferocious.
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And yes, that's how - I think - the author portrayed that incident; that there was no depth Malvina would not plumb to terrorise her potential future opponents by visiting destruction on her current opponents. That's the Mongol doctrine taken to an extreme.
or, just a new twist on 'Standard naval tactics'. (See below)
The FedRat Ramming Lust? I suspect it sounded cool at the time, but like most joke tactics it's faded fast. First time you're a wit, second time you're a half wit, and it decays exponentially from there. And let's just agree not to discuss the naval 'brilliance' in HotW. IMHO, lazy writing.
It's not just Fedrat, Aleksandr Kerensky did it too...quite a lot actually, though mostly only on-screen for the 'liberation' of Terra. It stops being a joke when everybody does it, and thus far, more are doing it than are not, given the canon equipment lists and battles we've seen since day one. that makes it Standard, something that large-scale military commanders must be getting taught to do back when they were trainees.
Given our earliest examples ARE so early within the universe's timeline, what makes Malvina's move innovative is combining it with another tactic in a quite efficient package in which the ship is rammed into the ground target instead of ramming merely to reach it for bombardment purposes.
Given that EVERYBODY's naval doctrine is based on SLDF doctrine, this shows a thread of continuity in the training and tactics. So congrats to the Jade Falcons for introducing the first significant innovation in naval tactics since 2781-the ramming orbital bombardment of an inhabited city.
(This also suggests we're going to see more of it, if we see more naval, from all current owners of naval assets, not less.)
See, a 'joke tactic' maybe gets used once or twice, when it gets used as the 'go to' and succeeds, it becomes standard-and ramming doesn't tend to appear in the fiction with the LOSING side of a battle as often as the winners.
HoTW underscores this, because that's how Alaric opened up his naval phase of the campaign (same way Aleks did at Sol system! ramming ships into things!!)
Thus, going back to where this all started, The remnant Falcon Navy has a limited number of ships to execute standard tactics with before that number is zero, but they would potentially face even FEWER ships, so the math still works out for them alone, never mind that the Snow Ravens are technically allies and have a few more they can crash into things (but won't, because that would deplete them below viability).
In short, it's not 'lazy writing' it's a carefully crafted illustration of the setting, the tactic would be a 'joke tactic' if it was rare, but it's not rare, therefore it's simply 'how business is done'.
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My friends, I recently got my Wave Two KS pledge including the new Turkina, Night Gyr, and Black Lanner. I see reference to all three being seen on Tukayyid as prototypes brought back with the Khans and other Trueborn from the Homeworlds in 3051. What unit(s) would you imagine to be entrusted with putting these new designs through their paces?
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Turkina Keshik only to begin with.
Gradual spread after Tukayyid, but you don't really see them reliably in the rank-and-file until Coventry.
*EDIT: that said, in the interest of not side-lining a fancy new mini you could argue inclusion in a Galaxy command star or two ...
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Turkina Keshik only to begin with.
My initial thought too, but I don't see any reference to them actually being on Tukayyid, surprisingly enough.
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Finally got time to go through ilClan. At the risk of sounding melodramatic I can't really think of what to say just yet.
The previous thread lasted almost seven years. I wonder where we'll be when this thread closes.
I initially mistyped melotramatic and had a good laugh at the (freudian?) typo.
Melotraumatic is an actual word nowdays. 8)
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Melotraumatic
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My initial thought too, but I don't see any reference to them actually being on Tukayyid, surprisingly enough.
Jade Falcon Sourcebook and TRO: 3058.
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Theoretically, yes. In practice? It's a safe bet that OZ is going to shrink very soon. Tamar Rising will be out in a couple of months so we'll find out exactly how much shrinkage soon enough.
I wonder if the Lyrans will retake Somerset. ???
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Jade Falcon Sourcebook and TRO: 3058.
Hmm. Now this is interesting. I see exactly the references you describe, but the recent Battle of Tukayyid Chaos Campaign book completely fails to note their presence. I wonder if parts of the Keshik were somehow included in the "masterpiece of a bid" that saw the participating Galaxies restructured to facilitate the deployment of a large force while still securing a favorable timeframe...
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I wonder if the whole "give me ramming speed!" thing is from someone reading about the likes of the St. Nazaire raid (long story short the plan revolved around ramming a ship into something thought to be unbreakable, and is pretty much close to what the wolves did BTW) and thought dady K would know about it and used it for inspiration once and then it just tumbled out of control, Once is a cool nod to history, everyone and their gran doing it gets a bit samey.
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That's a very...shiny interpretation, but he's got it right-Clan Jade Falcon have been relegated to a ceremonial guard wholly owned by Alaric Ward. They have lost all their infrastructure and most of their personnel and leadership, and had the top spot replaced by a mercenary owned by Alaric Ward. they don't have a Vlad, or a Marthe, they've got a hireling, and they're logistically dependent upon their sponsors to keep eating.
A ceremonial guard for a warlord who claims the right to rule the entire universe, and is obligated by his culture to fight on the front in the wars he wages as a common soldier pilot of a 100 ton war machine, is not very ceremonial in my opinion. Jade Falcon is about to see a lot of action, and if they fail to save his ass even once, Alaric's new empire is over. They might not have their own military industrial complex anymore, but Alaric doesn't really have a choice other than to give them the best of the equipment he has, in whatever quantity they need to get the job done.
Of course, he also can't afford to see them led by anyone with an agenda that goes beyond "ensure Alaric stays alive and in power", so I wouldn't expect Jade Falcon to do anything interesting, politically speaking, for a while. They're probably going to be a combat unit, albeit an elite one, for the foreseeable future. So they'll do cool stuff, but that cool stuff is probably going to be "make Alaric's enemies die" and "extricate Alaric from this horribly dangerous situation he's insisted on walking into".
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A ceremonial guard for a warlord who claims the right to rule the entire universe, and is obligated by his culture to fight on the front in the wars he wages as a common soldier pilot of a 100 ton war machine, is not very ceremonial in my opinion. Jade Falcon is about to see a lot of action, and if they fail to save his ass even once, Alaric's new empire is over. They might not have their own military industrial complex anymore, but Alaric doesn't really have a choice other than to give them the best of the equipment he has, in whatever quantity they need to get the job done.
Of course, he also can't afford to see them led by anyone with an agenda that goes beyond "ensure Alaric stays alive and in power", so I wouldn't expect Jade Falcon to do anything interesting, politically speaking, for a while. They're probably going to be a combat unit, albeit an elite one, for the foreseeable future. So they'll do cool stuff, but that cool stuff is probably going to be "make Alaric's enemies die" and "extricate Alaric from this horribly dangerous situation he's insisted on walking into".
Alaric has already broken tradition by stating that he's above clan tradition now, Make Alaric's enemies die is the Jaguars job, should have gone to the Falcons so we could call them clan sneaky beakie... come one TPTB you could have given us that, just that, i'm a clan care bear player and even i would be all over clan sneaky beakie :thumbsup:
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Hmm. Now this is interesting. I see exactly the references you describe, but the recent Battle of Tukayyid Chaos Campaign book completely fails to note their presence. I wonder if parts of the Keshik were somehow included in the "masterpiece of a bid" that saw the participating Galaxies restructured to facilitate the deployment of a large force while still securing a favorable timeframe...
The Keshik is outside of the three Galaxies so I guess escaped mention that way.
I took a quick look at the book and noticed an (accidental?) retcon:
'During the bidding, the Falcon Khans kept all Galaxies’ Eyrie and Solahma Clusters on the board, where they were ignored by most other Khans as inconsequential—a sign of Falcon weakness.'
This contradicts Jade Falcon Sourcebook, which notes that only Gamma's Eyrie Cluster was on Tukayyid, and that most of Gamma, Delta and Vau's Solahma Cluster strength was back guarding recently captured worlds.
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Having them stay in the bid does not mean they saw action. The Falcons campaign swung very quickly, from what looked like sure victory (with no need to call in any of those units) to a withdrawal in fairly good order (and no reason to throw second line assets into a meaningless meat grinder).
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Did the sourcebook mention if they were Freebirth's? If it did then they could have been left out of action so the Trueborns wouldn't risk getting shown up by "lesser people."
They would never be allowed to live it down.
Another reason could be arrogance that said "We can do it with less than we said we could. Just to show everyone how tough we are!"
Plus they were fighting ComStar, which iirc was thought to just be a telecom company with no meaningful assets that could oppose the Clans.
Wasn't until later that they found out they had more and bigger guns that was generally known outside of their organization.
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Who's up for beating on the Draconis Combine? >:D
Oh! Me Me! Pick me!
Ghost Bears and Jade Falcons, the two best clans of all time!
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Oh! Me Me! Pick me!
Alright that's two. I have a Trinary ready to kick some Drac tail. I'm sure I'll see action against them anyway because a buddy of mine picked them.
Ghost Bears and Jade Falcons, the two best clans of all time!
Both of the clans I have stuff for because I'm like that. Gotta show the other players who you're representing.
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Given their new jobs, and a contact to Northwind through Tara Jadefalcon, anyone think it reasonable the Falcons might try to commission a Black Watch IIC sometime in the near future? :)
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Given Elizabeth Hazen's connection to the Black Watch, this seems likely.
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Did the sourcebook mention if they were Freebirth's? If it did then they could have been left out of action so the Trueborns wouldn't risk getting shown up by "lesser people."
They would never be allowed to live it down.
Another reason could be arrogance that said "We can do it with less than we said we could. Just to show everyone how tough we are!"
Plus they were fighting ComStar, which iirc was thought to just be a telecom company with no meaningful assets that could oppose the Clans.
Wasn't until later that they found out they had more and bigger guns that was generally known outside of their organization.
could also be that they anticipated rolling over comstar rapidly and wanted garrison units in the bid so they could consolidate their gains immediately without accusations of violating their bid, freeing up the frontline units to fight the other clan's in the inevitable round of trials over who gets to lead the way to claim Terra.
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The Jade Falcons included Eyrie and Solahma clusters in their Tukayyid bid but did not include any dropships in their bid. This meant that they had to land farther away from their targets then other clans. It also meant the Com Guards couldn't contest their landing.
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I'd say that restarting the Black Watch is a likely part of Jade Falcon's future. As a "bodyguard clan" it looks like they'll be doing at least something similar anyway. Add in the BL being a part of their history through Khan Elizabeth Hazen it could be said to be part of their history and clan birthright. Just imagine Elemental sized commando busting through your window!
Personally I'm ok with how things turned out on Terra. Sure I'd like Jade Falcon to be the ilClan but second place with being the bodyguards is good too. Better than what most the other clans got out of the invasion. Though some others are doing well.
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I'd say that restarting the Black Watch is a likely part of Jade Falcon's future. As a "bodyguard clan" it looks like they'll be doing at least something similar anyway. Add in the BL being a part of their history through Khan Elizabeth Hazen it could be said to be part of their history and clan birthright. Just imagine Elemental sized commando busting through your window!
Personally I'm ok with how things turned out on Terra. Sure I'd like Jade Falcon to be the ilClan but second place with being the bodyguards is good too. Better than what most the other clans got out of the invasion. Though some others are doing well.
Ok, this could be badly worded and/or wrong and most likely is, but the idea that Alaric had maybe less than good intentions in mind for the Falcons, I wonder how much Alaric planned to make it an insult as much as an honour, the Falcons were hardline Crusaders (as a clan, though I don't know of any wardens in the Falcons, i'm guessing there was some, somewhere, once, maybe), now they lost and were made into a defensive bodyguard formation, as far as we know at the moment, a position that has put ok-ish for their time Mechs out of production, because of the Clans disdain for that position, full time bodyguard units ain't well known for their offensive campaigns and the honour gained from that, even Nicky K's body guard units in other Clans only did that when needed and were front line clusters when not iirc, how much is it payback for absorbing the OG Wolves and how much is it a case of keep your friends close but enemies closer as much as it is an honour? a case of you fought so well that im going to reward you with an important position... that is the opposite of most of what our culture has stood for.
The Clan's mindset is still kinda alien to us in our modern cultures where being an honour guard/bodyguard is an... well honour and means you're kinda damn good at your job, for the Clans being damn good at your job and being honoured means being at the frontlines as often as you can and popping your cooling boots before you slow down enough to be past it or become Khan/saKhan/Loremaster and even then the clans don't want one that's past the point of being able to do their jobs.
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Don't assume that being the IlKhan's bodyguard force doesn't mean they won't get used for offensive operations. Keshiks are all bodyguard units, and they get such duties all the time. The current job just means that Clan Jade Falcon is the Star League Keshik.
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"Refusal War Veteran" (aka Mechwarrior 2 was there it all began for me :)) returning to service (forums)
Good to see a lot of familiar faces
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After reading HoTW, and ilClan Sourcebook, and my own personal thoughts on where things might go (especially with Tamar Rising)
The first thing I will officially say, thank Turkina, Malvina and what she turned our beloved Clan into, is dead :thumbsup: (Her (individual) legacy reaved ? (hopefully)
(Not Hazen in General though) (And yes, I did feel that the whole Mongol thing was a betrayal of CJF Spirit)
The new leadership is looking very good for a strong comeback, although one more identity/personality alludes me, where is "Ichiba Pryde" ? She got her own mech and dossier card in Dark Age, and it said that she did not buy into the Mongol Doctorine
Hopefully, besides Terran Enclave, we will have a few planets to draw on, perhaps even a push back towards Sudeten, for Blood Legacies, Iron Wombs, Infastructure etc (or did crazy Mal pack all that up too ?) Possibly perhaps an "Elite" Garrison Cluster was left behind ?
When the last Eridani Light Horse Book comes out in December, I will be curious to see what happens in the ilClan era, will they be absorbed by us ? Invited to join new SLDF, (even though they are a Merc unit, technically they are Star League too, kinda?)
I can see us trading a few Warships, for Equipment to get us back on our Talons, plus abit of shiny new stuff from Alaric, post ilClan Trial
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Let's not do that thing where we pretend characters are acting without any logic at all, just to grind an axe.
Battletech fandom is currently running on bottom shelf memes like “steiner scout lance hurr hurr.” Just as dusty and lame is the “malvina was stupid crazy” meme. She might have been crazy but she was crazy like a fox.
And given this frustration, some Falcons just feel "I am mad as hell, and I am not going to take any more!
This is very close to spot on. The only piece you’re missing is that this tendency to explode with homocidal rage is a core attribute of the CJF psych profile dating back at least to the Culling.
The Bird has no chill.
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She might have been crazy but she was crazy like a fox.
No she was crazy like your mate who stabs someone with a fork over a fiver and ends up sectioned for 25 years.
I've a good feeling about the future for CJF. The Wolves are gonna learn what happens to every faction that tries to hold Terra and we can build ourselves back up with some actually sane leadership and take back the territory we're inevitably going to loser when Tamar Rising comes out.
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****** Malvina...
I originally became Jade Falcon fan because the Jade Phoenix Trilogy was basically my first or second foray into BT fiction. Made big impression.
But later finding out about the Dark Age Falcon story line and what Malvina ended up being... just no. Can't be a fan of this.
It was OK while Aleksandr Hazen was around because he had interestingly humane outlook for a Falcon warrior and he kept Malvina reined in. Far more interesting character.
Frankly that would've been preferable to Falcon ever getting close to ilClanship, besides i figure with Alexsandr around, or better yet, without Malvina at all it would have been actually plausible for them to win. (The way Malvina was, it was a completely foregone conclusion, from meta-perspective.)
As happy as i'm about Malvina being gone, it is gonna take me quit a while to really shake that out from my mind.
And hopefully we can get rid of stuff like calling a civil war "Rending". Between Malvina and that, Dark Age Falcons were like some juvenile edgelord fantasy.
As much as i like the Dark Age era, the Falcons were easily the worst part of it. Maybe not the most nonsensical, the Wolves migrating across the Inner Sphere is still the single weirdest gamble ever done but at least it re-arranged the map in an interesting way and brought the Clans to map-southern Inner Sphere.
Need to see what next few years bring. And whether super cool designs like the Eyrie, Gyrfalcon, Jade Hawk, and Shrike survive, them being more associated with the Malvina-idiots and i figure that might've tainted them.
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I would think we will have those designs still around. But I do wonder if we will see different type of mechs consdiering CJF new role in the ilClan.
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I would think we will have those designs still around. But I do wonder if we will see different type of mechs consdiering CJF new role in the ilClan.
Sure, they'll be around for a while. Just... are they still getting made? The Falcon OZ's future is not bright, thanks to Malvina. (Granted, the Wolf Empire territory isn't necessarily in much better shape but they did make more preparations for Terra campaign than the Falcons.)
Also worry they get retired quickly rather than merely used until they're gone, despite the Clans waste-not-want-not attitude some stuff does get retired occasionally.
As for new 'Mechs, the Ion Sparrow, Hierofalcon and Jade Phoenix probably form the core of Falcon OmniMechs for quite a while. They're advanced and quite well designed. Though as i note, the Falcons may not don't have much manufacturing capability at the moment, depending on the state of the OZ. Even if everything's lost, i'd expect the new Omnis to get new factories, rather than getting replaced right away.
I'm not sure their new role needs different designs anyhow. They're still a Clan. "Body guard" to another Clan is a bit of an oxymoron, as we're talking about warrior peoples. While honor guard duty will be part of the Falcon life, i expect their real use will be the most elite shock troops. Gotta keep those skills sharp after all.
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****** Malvina...
I originally became Jade Falcon fan because the Jade Phoenix Trilogy was basically my first or second foray into BT fiction. Made big impression.
But later finding out about the Dark Age Falcon story line and what Malvina ended up being... just no. Can't be a fan of this.
It was OK while Aleksandr Hazen was around because he had interestingly humane outlook for a Falcon warrior and he kept Malvina reined in. Far more interesting character.
Frankly that would've been preferable to Falcon ever getting close to ilClanship, besides i figure with Alexsandr around, or better yet, without Malvina at all it would have been actually plausible for them to win. (The way Malvina was, it was a completely foregone conclusion, from meta-perspective.)
As happy as i'm about Malvina being gone, it is gonna take me quit a while to really shake that out from my mind.
And hopefully we can get rid of stuff like calling a civil war "Rending". Between Malvina and that, Dark Age Falcons were like some juvenile edgelord fantasy.
As much as i like the Dark Age era, the Falcons were easily the worst part of it. Maybe not the most nonsensical, the Wolves migrating across the Inner Sphere is still the single weirdest gamble ever done but at least it re-arranged the map in an interesting way and brought the Clans to map-southern Inner Sphere.
Need to see what next few years bring. And whether super cool designs like the Eyrie, Gyrfalcon, Jade Hawk, and Shrike survive, them being more associated with the Malvina-idiots and i figure that might've tainted them.
Well, be happy then since it's written black on white that Melvina despised the new omnis ( the Jade Phenix especially became associated with the "old guard" anti-mongol movement) and preferred the battlemechs...
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They also have the Thor II for however long they can hold Sudaten (I think)
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Well, be happy then since it's written black on white that Melvina despised the new omnis ( the Jade Phenix especially became associated with the "old guard" anti-mongol movement) and preferred the battlemechs...
I don't remember anything about Malvina despising the new Omnis, just that the Mongols tended to prefer the previous Totem 'Mechs, which naturally lead to some division, with non-Mongols gravitating toward the newer designs. I highly doubt Malvina gave shit either way. And i'm 99% sure that some notable pilot for the Hierofalcon or Ion Sparrow was a staunch Mongol.
They also have the Thor II for however long they can hold Sudaten (I think)
Well, that thing's been around since 30...88? Something like that. Those are common enough i don't worry about them. Or care, i strongly prefer the classic Summoner to the Grand Summoner.
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Sure, they'll be around for a while. Just... are they still getting made? The Falcon OZ's future is not bright, thanks to Malvina. (Granted, the Wolf Empire territory isn't necessarily in much better shape but they did make more preparations for Terra campaign than the Falcons.)
Also worry they get retired quickly rather than merely used until they're gone, despite the Clans waste-not-want-not attitude some stuff does get retired occasionally.
As for new 'Mechs, the Ion Sparrow, Hierofalcon and Jade Phoenix probably form the core of Falcon OmniMechs for quite a while. They're advanced and quite well designed. Though as i note, the Falcons may not don't have much manufacturing capability at the moment, depending on the state of the OZ. Even if everything's lost, i'd expect the new Omnis to get new factories, rather than getting replaced right away.
I'm not sure their new role needs different designs anyhow. They're still a Clan. "Body guard" to another Clan is a bit of an oxymoron, as we're talking about warrior peoples. While honor guard duty will be part of the Falcon life, i expect their real use will be the most elite shock troops. Gotta keep those skills sharp after all.
You make a good point.
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I don't remember anything about Malvina despising the new Omnis, just that the Mongols tended to prefer the previous Totem 'Mechs, which naturally lead to some division, with non-Mongols gravitating toward the newer designs. I highly doubt Malvina gave shit either way. And i'm 99% sure that some notable pilot for the Hierofalcon or Ion Sparrow was a staunch Mongol.
Well, that thing's been around since 30...88? Something like that. Those are common enough i don't worry about them. Or care, i strongly prefer the classic Summoner to the Grand Summoner.
Well, it's written in the summary for the Jade Phoenix that the old guard liked best the omnimechs while the mongols liked the totem battlemech, the "dislike" part is badly worded admittedly
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Well, it's written in the summary for the Jade Phoenix...
Forgot that write up. I was far more interested in just getting stats to my SSW database.
And this reminds me, i am disappointed by the Jade Phoenix.
Early implications was that it would be dreaded. Hour of the Wolf described it as having two ER PPCs and a Gauss rifle, and it or some other bit noted its mass at 85 tons. Combined with the fact it would share features with the Ion Sparrow and Hierofalcon (meaning partial wing), i mocked up my own back then. It was really close actually, with some minor structural differences. The biggest difference was that i assumed standard Gauss Rifle, not a HAG-30, and i crammed in a Targeting Computer as well.
Think of it, a highly mobile 85-tonner (4/6/5) with three headcappers tied to a Targeting Computer!
Incidentally that configuration is still possible, but without canon appearance, it might as well not exist*.
The canon Prime is powerful to be sure, but i always find HAGs to be either disappointing somehow. They cost a lot of BV, have poor long range performance, and despite their damage potential their average falls well below that maximum. I would prefer to use just LRMs or Streak LRMs in most cases.
I will admit that by making my mock-up, i may have ended up setting myself up for disappointment.
*I'm strict about sticking to official sheets only, simply because if i start tinkering with stuff, i'll have a highly optimized and incredibly boring group of units quickly.
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Any new mechs that the Jade Falcons distance from themselves will probably be taken by the Lyrans (through Tamar), sold by the Sea Foxes (maybe becoming associated with mercs), or ultimately used by the Wolf Empire. Unless the writers or developers hate the particular model it will be repurposed by someone else.
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4/6/5 with two ER PPCs, a Gauss, and a TC sounds like it would be genuinely crippled by its own cost, that has to be 3500 or close to it, if not more.
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4/6/5 with two ER PPCs, a Gauss, and a TC sounds like it would be genuinely crippled by its own cost, that has to be 3500 or close to it, if not more.
Good guess. 3480 as built on the current Jade Phoenix chassis.
So yeah, i grant that the cost makes it difficult to utilize. But i don't think 3277 BV for the Jade Phoenix Prime is much better in this department.
And i wasn't thinking about the cost, just what i felt would match the description.
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****** Malvina...
I originally became Jade Falcon fan because the Jade Phoenix Trilogy was basically my first or second foray into BT fiction. Made big impression.
This. The Legend of the Jade Phoenix was my intro to BT novels. I fell for characters like Aidan and Marthe. Malvina was a complete 180 from that.
I am so glad Malvina is gone. She was turning her Clan into the Jade Albatross. Now they have a chance to rebuild, and compete with several other weakened Clans.
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This. The Legend of the Jade Phoenix was my intro to BT novels. I fell for characters like Aidan and Marthe. Malvina was a complete 180 from that.
I am so glad Malvina is gone. She was turning her Clan into the Jade Albatross. Now they have a chance to rebuild, and compete with several other weakened Clans.
I second that, Selyah !
Also, any update on release date of Tamar Rising ?
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This. The Legend of the Jade Phoenix was my intro to BT novels.
Same :P I just haven't read the main storyline beyond the ~end of the Classic line (where Katherine Steiner-Davion left with Vlad Ward) for some reason :)
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Same :P I just haven't read the main storyline beyond the ~end of the Classic line (where Katherine Steiner-Davion left with Vlad Ward) for some reason :)
TBH, there's pretty good BT novels in the MWDA line. I seem to recall i thought Flight of the Falcon pretty good despite it introducing Malvina, it is the later developments with Malvina where she really goes of the deep end thanks to no more Aleksandr.
(Though my favorite is Ghost War, the first MWDA novel.)
It is a pity we never really got novels to continue from Endgame. Shadows of Faith was supposed to be the direct continuation of the classic line as i understand it, but it was never really finished, getting 7 chapters only via BattleCorps (and the first one was in Dawn of the Jihad sourcebook as opening fiction).
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So after testing, here's the final draft of my "Damn the BV, just Falcon Harder" Murder Princess Star
Jade Phoenix Prime, Turkina B, Night Gyr Prime, Flamberge Prime, Thor II D
Thoughts?
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So after testing, here's the final draft of my "Damn the BV, just Falcon Harder" Murder Princess Star
Jade Phoenix Prime, Turkina B, Night Gyr Prime, Flamberge Prime, Thor II D
Thoughts?
That looks pretty painful, although I'd swap the Night Gyr for a G configuration.
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That looks pretty painful, although I'd swap the Night Gyr for a G configuration.
According to both Sarna and MUL there is no Night Gyr G.
Hmmm...
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In two weeks, the Night Gyr might make an appearance in the next Rec Guide. Maybe there will be soon! :thumbsup:
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According to both Sarna and MUL there is no Night Gyr G.
There is one coming, no idea which Rec Guide it'll be in. Unless they go & change the config letter on me. If they do, I'll point out which one it is.
Hmmm...
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The Falcony Falcon Binary is approaching Peak Falcon
Current Lineup:
Eyrie
Flamberge
Gyrfalcon
Hierofalcon
Ion Sparrow
Jade Hawk
Jade Phoenix
Onanger
Shadow Cat II
Shrike
Tack-on third star for a trinary
Goshawk 3
Jupiter
Jupiter 3
Thunderbolt IIC
Thunderbolt IIC 2
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That's certainly nu-Falcon, but lacking Summoners, Hellbringers, Grand Summoners, Hels, and Kit Foxes.
And the Goshawk looks a little light on compared to its playmates. But Falcony, I give you that.
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I mostly just wanted to get all the totem-esque guys in the same formation to be ridiculous. The aforementioned summoner and hellbringer are in a proper clan invasion binary
The goshawk ended up there because it has no other home. Adopt a Reseen Vapor Eagle today :'(
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Never a bad time for a Goshawk (unless you're fighting it)
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Malvina Bored me. She wasn't intreasting, she was just boring. she was just another, in a VEEEERY long line of crazy Battletech leaders, none of whom are intreasting because you know the ONLY purpose an insane character has in battletech is to destroy their faction and/or commit warcrimes.
I mean, thats literally all that happens with crazy faction leaders. Romanio Liao, Caleb Davion, Malvina Hazen etc... none of these characters are intreasting and you role your eyes when they first apper because you know it's just a cheap excuse to wreck a faction while having it act out of character
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Fate had it that the Falcons were part of a plot line that had them doomed as a matter of course. It would have been strange for it to have Malvina win the IlClanship.
Just an observation.
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Fate had it that the Falcons were part of a plot line that had them doomed as a matter of course. It would have been strange for it to have Malvina win the IlClanship.
Just an observation.
'strange'? why? other than it was telegraphed at her introduction that she would be the destruction of the Falcons as a faction? You know what would be interesting, would be if the Falcons lost because they lost, not because their leaders were inept, or insane, or mentally defective, but because their opponents were actually slightly better or luckier.
Which I suspect WOULD be out of character for the setting, given that the major flag that a faction is going to burn itself to the ground is that the leaders go insane first-since Max Liao, even.
It would certainly be very different if the conflict was between two sides whose leaders weren't blitz raging nuts or mentally damaged, and one side won against opposition that was actually different and challenging, as opposed to just violent and blood-soaked rabid animals who need to be chained.
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Based on the Tamar Rising preview, we have Fallen Falcons now? I was sure we had no one left at home, now apparently there is a splinter falcon nation with his own Khan around? They apparently own the remnants of the OZ too...were our factories are.
If I had to guess, it would seems Clan JF is split between becoming a rogue nation of Fallen Falcons and a rib of Clan Wolf (the Blackwatch), hopefully I am reading too much into it.
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Based on the Tamar Rising preview, we have Fallen Falcons now? I was sure we had no one left at home, now apparently there is a splinter falcon nation with his own Khan around? They apparently own the remnants of the OZ too...were our factories are.
If I had to guess, it would seems Clan JF is split between becoming a rogue nation of Fallen Falcons and a rib of Clan Wolf (the Blackwatch), hopefully I am reading too much into it.
Even if every single Clan Warrior was taken to Terra, there would still be billions of Falcons left on those worlds.
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New thread! Falcon hard with mindfulness (and a lack of plaid!)
https://youtu.be/SkTt9k4Y-a8 (https://youtu.be/SkTt9k4Y-a8)
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Well, as I said, I am picking up the lore as I go right now, but the whole Mongol affair felt a betrayal of the spirit of the CJF for an old timer like me....
We Sea Foxes were once led by an idiot Hawker. So we feel for you. But times change and things get better.
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Right. Malvina got her Falcons to Terra. That's where they needed to go in order to face their destiny as a second-teir Clan next to the Wolves.
Now we get to see the rest of where they are going, the survivors on Terra, and those left behind.
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Based on the Tamar Rising preview, we have Fallen Falcons now? I was sure we had no one left at home, now apparently there is a splinter falcon nation with his own Khan around? They apparently own the remnants of the OZ too...were our factories are.
If I had to guess, it would seems Clan JF is split between becoming a rogue nation of Fallen Falcons and a rib of Clan Wolf (the Blackwatch), hopefully I am reading too much into it.
You forget they may have come from the Periphery. Someone rearmed the Oberon Confederation (in early 3140s) and I can see rogue elements from the Wolves or the Falcons doing just that.
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Based on the Tamar Rising preview, we have Fallen Falcons now? I was sure we had no one left at home, now apparently there is a splinter falcon nation with his own Khan around? They apparently own the remnants of the OZ too...were our factories are.
If I had to guess, it would seems Clan JF is split between becoming a rogue nation of Fallen Falcons and a rib of Clan Wolf (the Blackwatch), hopefully I am reading too much into it.
Malvina only took those she deemed worthy or those she could not afford to leave behind and/or wanted to use as fodder in the battles on Terra, hoping they would get killed there before they became too much of a thorn in her side. This left mostly old solahma and others she deemed unworthy of finding possibly glory on the fields of battle on Terra.
Ruger
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The "Khan" of the Fallen Falcons is Jiyi Chistu, who if I remember correctly was a jihad clickymech char which was described as a decent guy.... quite possibly all this is just a provisional "government" while waiting from news from Terra.
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What was the first Falcon mech or omnimech to use Talons? Asking for a friend.
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Turkina X in 3077 by intro date, Eyrie in 3087 by publication date. I'm ignoring the U configs for obvious reasons.
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I thought the TurkinX was published first, in 3085 ONN?
I'm ignoring the U configs for obvious reasons.
Not that obvious to me at least, and I'm curious. Are they not Omni configs? Are there not any with talons?
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Thx, gents.
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I thought the TurkinX was published first, in 3085 ONN?
Dang, MUL listed source as RG16 and I didn't consider it'd have been earlier than 3145 in 2013.
Not that obvious to me at least, and I'm curious. Are they not Omni configs? Are there not any with talons?
They're not configs likely to have (potentially ever been used in atmosphere at any point.
It ended up being a pointless mention anyway, the only U config with Talons is the Turkina; the Nova has a Sword and the Viper has a Hatchet.
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Atmospheric usage was not listed as a requirement. I think the Turkinau is just as old as the Turkinax.
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Don't worry Weirdo, when you ask a question I'll be sure to provide it with no consideration or nuance whatsoever.
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If the rest of the forum would provide the same courtesy of answering a question actually as written, it would be the Best Day Ever.
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So, as a long gone BT player (pre Jihad) I just came back to check my beloved clan and...... what a mess.
If I understand correctly, after breezing through the Dark Age era, right now (I don't have the ilClan book yet) our OZ is basically free estate, we're down to one galaxy and we've become Alaric's footmen ( which is in a way expected after how we've been built up as the foil for Clan Wolf with Melvina and the Mongols, yuk).
So, is there any light of hope I am not privy to? Should I paint my mechs black? :))
On a side note, if you had to start picking up TRO and recogs,which ones would you start from?
:'(
I totally feel your pain. I stopped playing BT in the late 90s after college and just came back, only to discover that my beloved clan has been annihilated. I love all the stuff Catalyst has done, but I don't think I will follow cannon timeline. Basically in my own personal timeline I only follow cannon up until the Civil War era, maybe early Jihad.
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:'(
I totally feel your pain. I stopped playing BT in the late 90s after college and just came back, only to discover that my beloved clan has been annihilated. I love all the stuff Catalyst has done, but I don't think I will follow cannon timeline. Basically in my own personal timeline I only follow cannon up until the Civil War era, maybe early Jihad.
I am skimming Tamar Rising as I type, I thought the Jags were resurrected by Alaric?
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I am skimming Tamar Rising as I type, I thought the Jags were resurrected by Alaric?
Looking at his avatar he's a Nova Cat, although he may be in for a happy rebirth soon.
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Looking at his avatar he's a Nova Cat, although he may be in for a happy rebirth soon.
True that :P
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:'(
I totally feel your pain. I stopped playing BT in the late 90s after college and just came back, only to discover that my beloved clan has been annihilated. I love all the stuff Catalyst has done, but I don't think I will follow cannon timeline. Basically in my own personal timeline I only follow cannon up until the Civil War era, maybe early Jihad.
Not as annihilated as it seems at first glance (Spirit cats, Republican Nova Cats, Kisho Survivors). But this is another topic.
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what happened to the nova cats is proably one of the greatest injustices of the dark age writing. :(
Hopefully the falcons recover from whats all going down in a way that falcon players can enjoy
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Looking at his avatar he's a Nova Cat, although he may be in for a happy rebirth soon.
Indeed. Nova Kitties for the Loss (?). Would be happy if the Spirit Cats could give us a rebirth.
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Not as annihilated as it seems at first glance (Spirit cats, Republican Nova Cats, Kisho Survivors). But this is another topic.
Agreed, and happy that through the Spirit Cats, the Nova Cats live on.
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Hopefully the falcons recover from whats all going down in a way that falcon players can enjoy
Wishing the same. Seyla.
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Here's to hoping Jiyi's Falcons hold out and prosper, have neutral relations with the merchant queen, eventually linking up with Stephanie's Falcons (admit it, they need each other), saving the very soul of Jade Falcon, and adapting (Once strong enough, what will dialogue be ? Given Stephanie and Jiyi's opinion on the ilClan Trial, and their place after it. Whilst Alaric uses the Bears, as shock troop leverage against the Horses ?
Interesting times ahead, I am interested to see how major powers, especially ilClan forces on Terra recover and rebuild their Toumans, but from reading Tamar Rising, and the speed Toumans can be rebuilt, might be quicker than it sounds, as within 6 months Jiyi had decent force numbers and ratios for his worlds
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I prefer that the Jade Falcons become two factions we have the Jade Falcons now based on Northwind and the Fallen Falcons in the Clan OZ. Similar to the Wolf and Wolf-in-Exile. Both have to rebuild and now seeing how the lower castes were treated in the OZ they can’t afford to be so elitist.
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It'll be interesting to see how the two Clans Jade Falcon interact when they meet. Both seem to have compatible goals and outlooks, but there are differences(particularly Jiyi's evolving views on freeborns and the lower castes) that may cause friction with cousin(?) Stephanie. Moreover, both are still Falcon, with all the pride that entails. Neither will easily bend the knee to the other, so I expect at least some conflict. My only hope is that both Clans survive that conflict. Honestly, I'm seeing a lot of comparisons with the circumstances surrounding the creation of the NACC.
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I think the biggest difficulty for Jiyu is gonna be legitimacy, he doesn't have a single other bloodnamed individual under him, so his claim to the Khanship is pretty weak, it wouldn't even take the falcons returning formally, all it'd take is a blood named star colonel to be sent from Terra to secure sudeten with a small escort to create a leadership crisis. and if the falcons on Terra DO return, well, "his bargining posture may be highly dubious" my general assumption is the ilclan will make it's move in 3155 (which is a generation to the clans, long eneugh for the wolves to have recovered some from their sibkos, assuming they're kept intact) or 3160 at the latest.
Alaric'll first move to secure the wolf empire (or whats left of it) and then move into the former falcon OZ to bring it into his sphere of influence (Calladre Kell makes this prediction in the inital story of Tamar rising, and over all I agree with her assessment, if he gets to "name the dance" Alaric'll choose to house keep)
this give Jiyu a 5 to ten year window to perpare for the inevitable. and really he's got a few choices.
1: Immediatly issue a trial against the "terran falcon khans" and become Khan or sakhan of the united clan. this'll enable him to merge the assists and bring some of his reforms into the clan as a whole. (this BTW is the "best option" for clan jade falcon and thus proably won't be what happens :) )
2: manage to somehow negotiate independance, perhaps having alaric declare his jade falcons a new clan (Clan Jade Wolf? :) )
3: manage a crash building program that makes him capable of simply holding his own against even a major power, this would be impressive and suprising but we've seen more absurd things happen.
4: Secure allies against the wolves and manage to maintain independance that way (the Hells Horses may be the best bet here)
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The ultimate law of the Clans is that victory is the ultimate law. As long as Jiyi survives in a hostile area of space, especially if he does so by bloodying the Horses' noses repeatedly, that plays well into the Clan sensibilities of honor. I also think that if the Falcons coming out of Terra show themselves to be the moderate branch that opens a lot of diplomatic opportunities that don't otherwise exist. That could end up being a matter of a small scale trial of position rather than a conquest or an annnihilation.
Essentially, I don't think he wants the Khanship if there's a Clan Jade Falcon worth being part of in the ilClan.
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The ultimate law of the Clans is that victory is the ultimate law. As long as Jiyi survives in a hostile area of space, especially if he does so by bloodying the Horses' noses repeatedly, that plays well into the Clan sensibilities of honor. I also think that if the Falcons coming out of Terra show themselves to be the moderate branch that opens a lot of diplomatic opportunities that don't otherwise exist. That could end up being a matter of a small scale trial of position rather than a conquest or an annnihilation.
Essentially, I don't think he wants the Khanship if there's a Clan Jade Falcon worth being part of in the ilClan.
I don't disagree that there's certainly ways to survive, but there's also a LOOT of room for him to end poorly. thing is Jiyi KNOWS this, it's worth noting that he never identifed himself as Khan when issuing a Batchall to other clans. my guess is you're right that if he and those who follow him are, basicly treated with respect he'd be happy to stand down for a more legitimate Khan.
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The ultimate law of the Clans is that victory is the ultimate law. As long as Jiyi survives in a hostile area of space, especially if he does so by bloodying the Horses' noses repeatedly, that plays well into the Clan sensibilities of honor. I also think that if the Falcons coming out of Terra show themselves to be the moderate branch that opens a lot of diplomatic opportunities that don't otherwise exist. That could end up being a matter of a small scale trial of position rather than a conquest or an annnihilation.
Essentially, I don't think he wants the Khanship if there's a Clan Jade Falcon worth being part of in the ilClan.
That depends on the Clan though. The Wolves are often portrayed as "victory at all costs" while the Falcons were (before Malvina) more on the "Victory through hard but honorable combat" side. So if those Fallen Falcons stray too much from their supposed core they might be declared dezgra (if that wortd even exists anymore for the IS Clans). Then again if they show they can fight at least "clean" they could be on the way to redemption.
And let's be fair here the Wolves aren't exactly a "pure" Clan anyway with the forming of several Galaxies filled with IS soldiers and I would bet that the Falcons in the Terran system won't be "pure" Clan as well (more like Northwind Falcons opr Jade Highlanders right?.
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Does it serve the Hells Horses to provide recognition to Jiyu, for use as a catspaw against Alaric?
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That's the thing, though. Malvina didn't take control of the Clan by outmaneuvering her political opponents, she took control of the Clan by winning every fight. Every obstacle in the Clans, regardless of source, can be solved by winning a fight. By design. You want that sweet new Stormcrow the Star Commander got? Trial of Possession. You think you'd be a better Star Commander? Trial of Possession. Your Star Captain rules against you on a decision? Trial of Refusal. Another Star Commander insults you? Trial of Grievance.
Politics in the Clans comes down to - has always come down to - making sure that you only piss off people who can't beat you, and you pick the fights you know you'll win because that means you were right. Make too much of a stink and you'll attract the attention of someone who can put you in your place. Make too little noise and languish in a dead end career. Clan honor is ultimately malleable; anything is permitted as long as you can beat the people who disagree with you in a fight. That's how Alaric got to where he is now. How "Clanlike" a particular behavior is considered or described is done with deliberate intent to incense the right individuals to make the fight that might happen be more like one you can win. Declaring an opponent dezgra is the same way.
Alaric doesn't give a shit what tactics or strategey the Falcon remnant adopts. The only thing that matters is 1) whether he thinks they're a threat, 2) whether he thinks he'd need more support than can easily be mustered to defeat them if 1 is true. If they're a threat, they'll be declared dezgra regardless of what their disposition actually is. If they're not, they won't be. Of the two, the ALM is significantly more likely to be deemed a threat simply because of what it represents for a Clan society without Warriors in charge.
Alaric sits in the highest seat in the land and the head of a Clan government. The truth means absolutely nothing to him, he can say whatever he wants, whenever he wants, and that's true by default until he says something that splits his power base and triggers a fight he could lose.
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I honestly think, reading the previous comments, that Stephanie and Jiyu will get on great (besides sharing the same bloodname lol) Perhaps her as Khan, as elected by bloodnamed in HotW and Jiyu saKhan "the peoples" Khan, "both" Falcon factions have the same task now, of rebuilding, and especially becoming more "Mother Falcon" to the lower castes, to create a stronger sense of what it means to be Clan, as Stephanie puts it to the surviving Falcons on Terra, are we still a Clan ? And both her and Jiyu never want to go back to the days of mad Mal. Personally I think, when the two do link up, there will be a fair bit of diplomatic talking, a small Trial, then in the end, "come on, we are both Falcons, we have similar goals" etc. This also suits ilClan maneuvering too. Only part I can see is Jiyu kicking up a stink at Alaric, so perhaps he stays in the former OZ, and Stephanie works on near Terra assets. But I do agree with the timeline 3155-3160 major moves, after preliminary staging moves.
Fingers crossed, through token trialing and talks with the bears, Alaric can sanction a "trade off of worlds", that link Jiyu's territory to Terra ?
PS. Is it confirmed, we hold Northwind ?
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Is it confirmed, we hold Northwind ?
Nah, Tara Campell was taken as a Bondsman by the wolves and made a warrior, Alaric tossed her to the jade falcons so the jade falcons could have someone on hand who knew, and could teach them, about the regimental tradtions of the black watch. Somewhere along the line some people have somehow interpreted this as the Northwind Highlanders joined the Jade Falcons completely...
frankly I'd not be suprised if the Highlanders felt betrayed and sold out by Tara Campell... they've got ample reason to
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frankly I'd not be suprised if the Highlanders felt betrayed and sold out by Tara Campell... they've got ample reason to
True, or, me being the optimist, some sort of hodgepodge alignment, as these are the "proper" Jade Falcons back, which she is now part of
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True, or, me being the optimist, some sort of hodgepodge alignment, as these are the "proper" Jade Falcons back, which she is now part of
why would the highlanders care if they're "proper" jade falcons? people in the inner sphere hated the falcons long before Malvina showed up and dialed the crazy up to 11
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Another item to note is we are at the beginning of the story. Essentially book one of a new series where we are introduced to new characters and situations. Most of this is speculation until we get Empire Alone and hopefully get answers. Will the Fallen Falcons and “Alarics” Falcons reunite? Are the Highlanders going to accept the Falcons as equals? Will Alaric screw up enough that Stephanie says “I am leaving you stravag twit”. Maybe these answers and more will be on the next sourcebook.
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I wouldn't expect "answers" to a Falcon question in Empire Alone.
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Agreed. My impression is that Tamar Rising, Empire Alone, Dominions Divided, and I Dunno are intended to be pretty simultaneous, with all of them describing the year or two after IlClan. They're there to set up all these new stories, resolving any of them will come after we've got an entire Inner Sphere full of open plot lines.
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Will the Fallen Falcons and “Alarics” Falcons reunite?
Based on what we know now, I don’t think so.
One, the Falcons on Terra have lost their autonomy. They do the ilKhan’s bidding. He’s not going to send them off to take over the Fallen Falcons, and they’re not going to leave their duty as the ilKhan’s guard on Terra to order around third-rate Falcon warriors and lower castes in their former OZ.
Two, the Fallen Falcons aren’t going to give up their newfound autonomy to take orders from warriors that abandoned them and then lost bigtime on Terra. And they don’t have interest in or the power necessary to bring the Falcons on Terra back into the fold.
I don’t think the two Falcon factions will go to war over who’s the real Falcon. But neither of them has the interest or ability to bring the other to heel.
Who knows, but I would guess that the Fallen Falcons evolve into or are absorbed by something else and that the Terra Falcons remain a rump bodyguard Clan with lots of heroics until their last-stand demise when the ilClan Era ends.
Are the Highlanders going to accept the Falcons as equals?
A Highlander (Tara Campbell) is Alaric’s bondswoman and assigned to the Terran Falcons. But the rest of the Highlanders were sent packing back to Northwind, IIRC.
Will Alaric screw up enough that Stephanie says “I am leaving you stravag twit”.
Anything could happen, but if the ilClan Era is going to last, the ilKhan will have to make a lot more good moves (by fiat or otherwise). So I don’t see a pretext for the Falcons on Terra to leave their duty anytime soon, and I’m not sure they still have the independent access to transport necessary to do so, anyway.
FWIW...
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Does it serve the Hells Horses to provide recognition to Jiyu, for use as a catspaw against Alaric?
Gottfried Amirault would have tried such a maneuver. Fulk Lassenerra is more of a “Horde gotta Horde, yo!” type of Khan.
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the ajde falcons aren't likely to sit on terra and do nothing, sure sitting politely on terra and doing nothing may be the way a honorguard unit in the inner sphere operates (on the other hand even in the Inner Sphere honor guard units are often in the thick of it) that said I doubt they'll run back to their OZ anytime soon. they'll accompant Alaric, and while he'll likely EVENTUALLY want to resolve the issues in the Jade falcon OZ (both Jiyi Christu's fallen falcons and the ALM are essentially challanges to his authority that will need to be moved on) I suspect he's going to have other things to handle too.
people who say that empire alone won't tell us anything about the jade falcons are proably right but also proably in a broader sense WRONG. we're going to see whats happening with the wolves, and that'll give us likely insight on where Alaric's priroties lay. at least short term
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I highly doubt we get insight into Alaric's moves. He expressly left the bulk of the Wolf Empire with very specific orders to "hold the line at all costs". We're going to likely see heroic stands, as well as the FWL and Lyrans take back some territory.
And either way, it still won't answer how he or the Teran Falcons deal with the Falcon remnants in the former OZ.
My bet? Alaric, the Falcons, and the Jags all activate the fortress wall and nurse their strengths back to a respectable level before returning to the setting. Lots of industry on Terra to work with. Do I know this for sure? Nope! Not at all. But it would save them from the Cappies who could possibly wipe the Terran continental floors with what remains of all three Clans. The Cappies, as much as I dislike it, are loaded for bear and pointed at Terra with no other wars to distract them.
Now and the coming years are by far the most dangerous time for the new IlClan and their iteration of a Star League reborn.
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I highly doubt we get insight into Alaric's moves. He expressly left the bulk of the Wolf Empire with very specific orders to "hold the line at all costs". We're going to likely see heroic stands, as well as the FWL and Lyrans take back some territory.
And either way, it still won't answer how he or the Teran Falcons deal with the Falcon remnants in the former OZ.
My bet? Alaric, the Falcons, and the Jags all activate the fortress wall and nurse their strengths back to a respectable level before returning to the setting. Lots of industry on Terra to work with. Do I know this for sure? Nope! Not at all. But it would save them from the Cappies who could possibly wipe the Terran continental floors with what remains of all three Clans. The Cappies, as much as I dislike it, are loaded for bear and pointed at Terra with no other wars to distract them.
Now and the coming years are by far the most dangerous time for the new IlClan and their iteration of a Star League reborn.
it's possiable. which backs my idea that the wolves etc likely won't pop up until 3160 or so. we'll likely get a TRO 3155 or 3152 which will be the various recguide mechs with the fluff updated etc. and come 3160ish the ilclan swoops out of terra with new machines etc and a new TRO gives us our first look at them.
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The main problem with my thought is Terra is said in multiple sources to be tapped out of resources. And the Belters are not help, as they are notoriously unruly and independent.
In IlClan, it says a Raven naval star is on its way to Terra. Maybe they are coming to help. Maybe they are coming to... not help. We don't yet know.
The Wolves appear to be screwed. But that may just be what the devs and writers want us to think.
A surprise is no doubt in store for us all. And it's going to be freaking huge. That is all I know.
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The main problem with my thought is Terra is said in multiple sources to be tapped out of resources. And the Belters are not help, as they are notoriously unruly and independent.
In IlClan, it says a Raven naval star is on its way to Terra. Maybe they are coming to help. Maybe they are coming to... not help. We don't yet know.
The Wolves appear to be screwed. But that may just be what the devs and writers want us to think.
A surprise is no doubt in store for us all. And it's going to be freaking huge. That is all I know.
A hundred years of no clear victor except the arms dealers and mercenaries. Just saying.
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Will Alaric screw up enough that Stephanie says “I am leaving you stravag twit”.
I had this thought too, then it would be in all best interests to reunite the two Falcons
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And either way, it still won't answer how he or the Teran Falcons deal with the Falcon remnants in the former OZ.
My bet? Alaric, the Falcons, and the Jags all activate the fortress wall and nurse their strengths back to a respectable level before returning to the setting. Lots of industry on Terra to work with. Do I know this for sure? Nope! Not at all.
Now and the coming years are by far the most dangerous time for the new IlClan and their iteration of a Star League reborn.
Yeah for growth and rebuilding, you gotta have money and resources. Lets face it, plain and simple, and Jiyi's Falcons have that on Sudeten and Dompaire, perhaps that will be another point for Jiyi and Steph to reunite, in the greater common Falcon good
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If Stephanie does leave and reforms the Jade Falcons I hope she realizes how much the damage the Falcons have done in their own territory for the last hundred years. Looking at Tamar Rising I think we can agree the Falcons have done more harm than help in that area of space.
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I didn't actually have a good idea of what Sudeten represented as far as production goes. For those similarly ill-informed, BattleMechs alone that are produced in numbers on Sudeten include:
Hellbringer
Nova
Fire Falcon
Black Lanner
Turkina
Cougar
Flamberge
Summoner
Loki Mk II
Bane
Marauder IIC
Thunderbolt IIC
Shadow Cat II
Gyrfalcon
Cougar XR
Eyrie
Locust IIC
Ostscout IIC
And non-BattleMechs include:
Demolisher
Huitzilopochtli
SturmFeur
Gurzil
Nacon
Carrier Dropship
Danais Dropship
Overlord Dropship
Union Dropship
Scytha
Persepolis
Afreet battle armor
Salamander battle armor
Ironhold battle armor
It might as well be the crown jewel of industrial production in that entire section of the Inner Sphere if you didn't have Twycross and Coventry so close. Given even a handful of months, if the combined industrial might here is only producing a single 'Mech of each type a month you're still adding upwards of a 'Mech Trinary a month, and I think that's substantially underestimating production on a lot of these.
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Thank you for sharing this, Scotty. That is some tasty food for thought.
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Other interesting things include the Ion Sparrow, Hierofalcon, and Jade Phoenix all being produced on Alyina; Twycross of course being a huge Sea Fox production hub; and Pandora having a fair number of 'Mech lines.
The Vepser March has jack shit outside of Marksman artillery, and absolutely nothing left unclaimed still has anything remotely of military value.
Sudeten has basically the lion's share of industrial production for an entire Clan and I think the Horse's new Khan knows this. If they don't take it soon they won't get to.
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The Vepser March has jack shit outside of Marksman artillery, and absolutely nothing left unclaimed still has anything remotely of military value.
That factory was blown up by Malvina in 3142, and no longer even makes the Marksman.
Of course, there was some mention of rebuilding the factory. Since it's the former head of Defiance Industries doing the rebuilding, who's to say that Melissia won't end up producing a suspiciously similar product range as Hesperus II?
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Lack of jumpships, if I remember my Lyran problem du jour. :D
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Lack of jumpships, if I remember my Lyran problem du jour. :D
Just saying - he's probably got all the blueprints. If only there were an organization active in his region with a penchant for smuggling...
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That factory was blown up by Malvina in 3142, and no longer even makes the Marksman.
Of course, there was some mention of rebuilding the factory. Since it's the former head of Defiance Industries doing the rebuilding, who's to say that Melissia won't end up producing a suspiciously similar product range as Hesperus II?
the level of investment required for that would be insane. no brewer'll have to buy mechs from third parties.
the ALM meanwhile is in a bit of a pickle. they're clan, but are rejecting the warrior caste's leadership... this could lead to problems as the people they'll need to fight to maintain their independance all know they used to be in charge. relying on the folks who used to be in charge to maintain your soverginity has fiasco written all over it.
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the level of investment required for that would be insane. no brewer'll have to buy mechs from third parties.
the ALM meanwhile is in a bit of a pickle. they're clan, but are rejecting the warrior caste's leadership... this could lead to problems as the people they'll need to fight to maintain their independance all know they used to be in charge. relying on the folks who used to be in charge to maintain your soverginity has fiasco written all over it.
Although they hired mercenaries they are rebuilding and training their forces. The ALM just believes in talking or negotiating first. My question is will they use create more sibkos or are they just going to use freeborns to rebuild their forces.
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The main problem with my thought is Terra is said in multiple sources to be tapped out of resources. And the Belters are not help, as they are notoriously unruly and independent.
In IlClan, it says a Raven naval star is on its way to Terra. Maybe they are coming to help. Maybe they are coming to... not help. We don't yet know.
The Wolves appear to be screwed. But that may just be what the devs and writers want us to think.
A surprise is no doubt in store for us all. And it's going to be freaking huge. That is all I know.
That Naval Star might and most likely is the star that brought the Raven Khan to Terra for the ilClan vote, nothing more, the sidebar is dated 3rd March 3151, with 17th April being the start of the Trial. most likely they were there to watch the trial and then vote or leave depending how things went, not to help.
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That Naval Star might and most likely is the star that brought the Raven Khan to Terra for the ilClan vote, nothing more, the sidebar is dated 3rd March 3151, with 17th April being the start of the Trial. most likely they were there to watch the trial and then vote or leave depending how things went, not to help.
They aren't traveling that quickly. But, we'll see. Until such time, I agree to disagree.
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Ostscout IIC
To my knowledge there are only two in existence and they make the 3039 Charger look good.
However having 16 lines for Battlemech production alone is impressive now he needs the troops to pilot them.
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I'm predicting a lot of freeborn recruitment for the immediate future, plus raising more sibkos.
Marena has a generic repository she's just leaving alone right now. I wonder if it might not benefit both parties for her to share that resource with Jiyi in exchange for some of Sudeten's production. It'll likely be a while before Jiyi can fill all those mechs anyway, and Marena can either use them for her own militia it as incentives for hiring mercs.
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The Falcon Remnant certainly has the potential to very rapidly become a polity that is impossible to conventionally shift due to geographical concerns (mostly that it's not worth putting that much effort into anything short of Terra).
Marena feels like she's making a poor decision by instantly choosing scorn over indifference to warriors. It's a believable bad decision, but a decision that isn't in her or the AML's best interests all the same.
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Although they hired mercenaries they are rebuilding and training their forces. The ALM just believes in talking or negotiating first. My question is will they use create more sibkos or are they just going to use freeborns to rebuild their forces.
yeah but the problem is that the warriors are going to have a lot of firepower, and they're all going to know "we used to be in charge" the problem is when the ALM does rebuild their forces they're going to have to be careful otherwise a warrior coup will occur.
and of course you have other issues as well.. people are already drawing comparisons to the ALM and the society... even the comparison risks setting off the other clans.
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Pragmatic Falcons ... while not something I expected to type, you must admit it took the reaction from Malvina to force certain re-evaluations.
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A couple of days later, and I still love how the Falcon Remnant bloodied the Horse's collective noses with both Khans present on Sudeten. It renews my old Falcon fandom which has lied dormant for a very long time.
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I am rather amused that it happened as a dramatic foil to Malvina's victory on Sudeten, too.
Internal threat vs. External threat
Wasted valuable resources vs. Saved valuable resources
Chaotic and superior individuals vs. Disciplined teamwork to make up for individual shortcomings
Blunt and direct application of force vs. Nuanced implementation of a practiced plan
With very similar assets and a superficial nod to Malvina with the initial dropship surprise.
Jiyi is Malvina's opposite in basically every way, and there's no way it isn't deliberate
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While we're (well, me) talking about mirrors of previous Falcon circumstances, it's also cool to see the Falcons being the ones resisting an invasion by a hostile Clan. Next thing you know we'll be talking about the various splinter factions temporarily banding together to form Army Group Sudeten to fight back against a vicious Clan inv-
wait a minute
They gave a fact checker free rein to write a sourcebook. I took the opportunity to resolve as many “early installment weirdness” elements as possible - dangling threads and inconsistencies that had bugged me for decades.
MENDRUGOOOOOOOOOO
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You rang?
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Are you playing the long game to get Army Group Sudeten canonized? ;D
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While we're (well, me) talking about mirrors of previous Falcon circumstances, it's also cool to see the Falcons being the ones resisting an invasion by a hostile Clan.
No, no, I agree 100% with your assessment. Jiyi calculates, is inclusive, is capable of subtlety, and doesn't need to resort to terror tactics or overwhelming force to win.
A literal breath of fresh air.
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Are you playing the long game to get Army Group Sudeten canonized? ;D
While I could be coy and lead you on, I have to admit I had to go Googling for that reference just now. Hadn’t previously been on my radar.
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While I could be coy and lead you on, I have to admit I had to go Googling for that reference just now. Hadn’t previously been on my radar.
It is something I ran into in the General board a couple times, the general gist of it is that there are a bunch of regiments in the initial invasion whose last moves are retreating to Sudeten and then are never mentioned again. "Army Group Sudeten" is the term for what is obviously a fact-check failure given FASA's tendencies and is otherwise easily explained, but it seemed like exactly the kind of thing that'd get a passing mention for giggles if nothing else.
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yeah but the problem is that the warriors are going to have a lot of firepower, and they're all going to know "we used to be in charge" the problem is when the ALM does rebuild their forces they're going to have to be careful otherwise a warrior coup will occur.
and of course you have other issues as well.. people are already drawing comparisons to the ALM and the society... even the comparison risks setting off the other clans.
At least she does possess the same megalomania some of the past Falcon leaders possess. You also have to figure that if she plays her cards right many freebirths warriors will look to her with respect and awe. For the entire history of the Falcons when trueborns rose to power most freeborn were lucky to be minor garrison commanders at best or cannon fodder at worst. Hopefully now like Napoleons army you can climb the ranks regardless of family history or how you were birthed.
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At least she does possess the same megalomania some of the past Falcon leaders possess. You also have to figure that if she plays her cards right many freebirths warriors will look to her with respect and awe. For the entire history of the Falcons when trueborns rose to power most freeborn were lucky to be minor garrison commanders at best or cannon fodder at worst. Hopefully now like Napoleons army you can climb the ranks regardless of family history or how you were birthed.
maybe, but ultimately they can't climb to the final rank.. and when word reaches that Jiyi is allowing trials of founding...
as I said she might manage but it's a tightrope she'll need to walk
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maybe, but ultimately they can't climb to the final rank.. and when word reaches that Jiyi is allowing trials of founding...
as I said she might manage but it's a tightrope she'll need to walk
To be fair, this hasn't actually happened yet, the possibility has been mentioned in the text but we have no indication that it has happened.
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To be fair, this hasn't actually happened yet, the possibility has been mentioned in the text but we have no indication that it has happened.
yup I'm just noting potential snags she may have to deal with in the future.
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How are you guys pronouncing Jiyi? Gee-Yee? Jye-Yee? C) Other?
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I just roll with the Gee-Yee pronunciation and call it good.
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How are you guys pronouncing Jiyi? Gee-Yee? Jye-Yee? C) Other?
Gigi?
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I pronounce the first syllable like Gif. Make of that what you will. :D
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Ummmm... close enough?
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I pronounce the first syllable like Gif. Make of that what you will. :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI5kyjxgriw
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How are you guys pronouncing Jiyi? Gee-Yee? Jye-Yee? C) Other?
Jee-youe or Ji-you or Jai-you (in my mind, kinda like a Traditional mainland Chinese or Japanese accent / pronunciation / inflection)
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For now the infant, Jiyi's "Jade Dominion" (I called it ;D), I'll bring it up again, as he needs to full holes in his Touman, he has no shortage of good battlemechs, but of personnel, how is his aerospace force looking ? Will we see (safer)Protomechs (if there are the Scientist Caste resources in the Dominion), and conventional forces supplementing for now ? As more Mechwarriors and Sibko's become available later on ?
PS> I forget, does it say that Jiyi has access to Scientist Caste assets and Iron Wombs ? (I doubt Marena would give him access to hers, or maybe >? Possibly a negotiation for some access to Sudeten's factories ?)
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The Protos never really got off the ground with the Falcons. With so few scientific and technical individuals I doubt we will see any Protos from the Falcons. We may see it from the Hells Horses however.
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The Protos never really got off the ground with the Falcons. With so few scientific and technical individuals I doubt we will see any Protos from the Falcons. We may see it from the Hells Horses however.
It's a shame, since the Roc paints up very nicely in JF colors.
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For now the infant, Jiyi's "Jade Dominion" (I called it ;D), I'll bring it up again, as he needs to full holes in his Touman, he has no shortage of good battlemechs, but of personnel, how is his aerospace force looking ? Will we see (safer)Protomechs (if there are the Scientist Caste resources in the Dominion), and conventional forces supplementing for now ? As more Mechwarriors and Sibko's become available later on ?
PS> I forget, does it say that Jiyi has access to Scientist Caste assets and Iron Wombs ? (I doubt Marena would give him access to hers, or maybe >? Possibly a negotiation for some access to Sudeten's factories ?)
Sudeten has facilities that manufacture four different kinds of dropships including Unions, Broadswords, and Overlords, and also produces the Persepolis and the Syctha fighters, both of which seem like they're extremely... offensive-minded fighters. Lighter fighters seem to not be as readily available.
I might be mistaken but I'm pretty sure the Falcons just jettisoned their scientist caste entirely during the Jihad/Wars of Reaving and their technical design and manufacturing is handled almost entirely by the technician caste now.
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It's a shame, since the Roc paints up very nicely in JF colors.
Aff, the Roc is one of my favourites too. Pity there was not a "Roc II", I still think the idea of "Hyper" (Generation 3 or 4) Protomechs would be interesting to see. Advances in Ferro Fibers, MASC, EI (Safe) interface, bump up the weight to 15 tons, start to rival light mechs, being faster, more agile and adaptable
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Sudeten has facilities that manufacture four different kinds of dropships including Unions, Broadswords, and Overlords, and also produces the Persepolis and the Syctha fighters, both of which seem like they're extremely... offensive-minded fighters. Lighter fighters seem to not be as readily available.
I might be mistaken but I'm pretty sure the Falcons just jettisoned their scientist caste entirely during the Jihad/Wars of Reaving and their technical design and manufacturing is handled almost entirely by the technician caste now.
That's a nice tid bit about the Dropships, ALL of thier scientist caste, quineg ? Might be a few stragglers to guide Techs ? Also any precious Iron Wombs on Sudeten ?
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I might be mistaken but I'm pretty sure the Falcons just jettisoned their scientist caste entirely during the Jihad/Wars of Reaving and their technical design and manufacturing is handled almost entirely by the technician caste now.
Something like that. In Wars of Reaving Marthe Pryde ordered a 'selective' Annihilation, targeting scientists from the Clan Homeworlds and any Spheroid-born scientists too closely associated with them. She then had replacements taken from the Horses and Bears, who hadn't been as thoroughly infiltrated by the Society, but the Falcons still suffered a dearth of scientific talent ever since.
Tamar Rising confirms that the technician caste took up the slack, as least as far as weapons development went.
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ahh, I thought we got more since the Wars of Reaving and Society stuff
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ahh, I thought we got more since the Wars of Reaving and Society stuff
Flamberge fluff mentions they tried again with the partial wing after the Jihad, once they were able to get some wolf scientists.
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The Wars of Reaving and Jihad were a lifetime ago. That's a bit like claiming Germany being weak in science today because it lost so many scientists around the time of WWII.
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Germany didn't liquidate 90% or more of their scientists.
However, it is plainly said that Malvina was killing her scientists for failing to find a way through the Fortress Wall. So they did have some scientists. I imagine they are a fearful lot who wish their Society brethren had succeeded.
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The Wars of Reaving and Jihad were a lifetime ago. That's a bit like claiming Germany being weak in science today because it lost so many scientists around the time of WWII.
The impression I got from various sources is that it wasn't just the WoR purging but also the Falcon leadership hobbling their scientist caste from that point forward. As rebs pointed out Falcon scientists did exist, but it seems like anything practical such as weapons that could be given to the technicians was transferred to them, leaving the scientists with just iron wombs, education and theoretical fields.
However, it is plainly said that Malvina was killing her scientists for failing to find a way through the Fortress Wall. So they did have some scientists. I imagine they are a fearful lot who wish their Society brethren had succeeded.
Probably what that Scientist-General on Sudeten was thinking when he tried to persuade Jiyi to join him. Too bad for him that 'society' is still a curse word for the warriors. One wonders what word the Falcons pulled from the thesaurus to 'ctrl-F and replace' in all of their texts ;D
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Was looking at Objectives: Clans for something earlier today, and fliping through afterwards I started to wonder something. The Eagle Craft Group was nominally based out of Erewhon, but was a set of mobile factories that would travel around the falcon OZ to do refits and limited production runs. Makes me wonder if they were still active by the time of the ilClan Trial, and what became of them, who they wound up with in the splintering if they were still active, or what became of them before that if not.
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Hopefully the Wolves got nothing.
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Hopefully the Wolves got nothing.
They... aren't even in the running. why would they? Why would the ilClan need mobile factories?
It's more a question of fates like "did they wind up with one of the splinter groups? hell's horses? wear out in the 3100's and ceased being relevant five decades ago? Hostile Acquisition by Clan Sea Fox?"
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Was looking at Objectives: Clans for something earlier today, and fliping through afterwards I started to wonder something. The Eagle Craft Group was nominally based out of Erewhon, but was a set of mobile factories that would travel around the falcon OZ to do refits and limited production runs. Makes me wonder if they were still active by the time of the ilClan Trial, and what became of them, who they wound up with in the splintering if they were still active, or what became of them before that if not.
Sarna seemed to think the set up a permanent factory on Sudaten for the Thor.
Sarna says the info comes from TRO:3085 info from the Chalupa tank. And Masters and Minions. Other info comes from Objectives Clans and Jihad: Final Reckoning.
Sarna doesn’t have much other info, other than the mobile factories kept up low levels of high cost production.
There wasn’t much info on the mobile factories in the new book iirc.
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Chalupa tank.
Oh man. I knew they were having Quickscell make them stuff, but Taco Bell too?
And Masters and Minions.
Ah, there's one I don't have
Other info comes from Objectives Clans
Which started my wondering
and Jihad: Final Reckoning.
Isn't that before Objectives: Clans?
There wasn’t much info on the mobile factories in the new book iirc.
Unless I missed something, there was nothing about em. I expect the answer is they're long gone, but it'd be cool if it was something else.
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From the table of contents Jihad Final Reckoning it looks likes it’s set just after Objectives. 3081 vs 3079
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They... aren't even in the running. why would they? Why would the ilClan need mobile factories?
I mean.... mobile factories would be HIGHLY useful if you moved your entire nation to the other side of a sucessor state,
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Good read
"No Substitute For Victory" :thumbsup:
Question ? After reading the novel and Tamar Rising, bit confused...
In the end of novel, Star Colonel Baxter arrives with help, just in the "nick" of time, and after landing, says that he is a "Herald of Sorts", for Khan (Jiyi) Chistu. He states knows of what happened on Terra, but does he know about Stephanie ascending the Khanship ?, and the fact that word got out, about the ilClan Trial results, did Baxter pick that up from Alaric, or specifically from Stephanie ? And is this more proof that Jiyi doesn't support Blackwatch SLDF Falcons ? I remember a comment from Jiyi, about not wanting to be "Wolf Lackies"
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I definatly think thats the question. the Jiyi doesn't know the falcons are still around thats one thing, but if he knows the score, and STILL calls himself Khan etc that contextualizes things a bit differantly.
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My impression? Jiyi only knows the Facons lost on Terra.
He has only extrapolated that, but we know he's correct. Edited because incorrect.
I think it sets up that one day, there may be a duel to determine the true Khan. Which is cool to me. Maybe one will be the Khan and the other the saKhan. I could see that.
I don't see things escalating beyond that, though. Jiyi and Stephanie Chistu are far too level-headed to allow this to destroy the Falcons further.
Just my opinion, of course. If something bad happens to either of them, and a new leader or leaders step in, all bets are off.
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Oh, he does know. I had a few doubts as well after reading No Substitute For Victory, so I double checked my copy of Tamar Rising.
Jiyi gets the news from Scientist General Axle on Sudeten in mid-3151 (TR p.51). We do not know the exact details he got, or how Axle knew in the first place. Baxter seems to have quite a few details in NSFV, but explicitly claims to not have the entire story yet. I can only assume that Stephanie Chistu sent word to the OZ via HPG (does Sudeten have a working HPG?), we might find out in Empire Alone.
What REALLY confused me, though, is that he actually tried to sell Hasara the whole new Black Watch pitch, which I found to be very weird for a Star Colonel in Jiyi's Falcons.
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Hmmmm...
Then what we really need is a whole new novel that resolves this.
Which means more time.
Regardless, we live in exciting times!
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Oh, he does know. I had a few doubts as well after reading No Substitute For Victory, so I double checked my copy of Tamar Rising.
Jiyi gets the news from Scientist General Axle on Sudeten in mid-3151 (TR p.51). We do not know the exact details he got, or how Axle knew in the first place. Baxter seems to have quite a few details in NSFV, but explicitly claims to not have the entire story yet. I can only assume that Stephanie Chistu sent word to the OZ via HPG (does Sudeten have a working HPG?), we might find out in Empire Alone.
What REALLY confused me, though, is that he actually tried to sell Hasara the whole new Black Watch pitch, which I found to be very weird for a Star Colonel in Jiyi's Falcons.
Good point, even more confusing, hopefully that is pointing towards Jiyi ending up being (sa)Khan of the "Jade Dominion", and Stephanie as Khan, heading things on Terra and around there, and when they are ready, take back a "reasonable" part of the former OZ, but still respect the new power / neighbor balance, except for the Horses of course ? Or atleast create a small "line" of planets back to Terra linking up with Jiyi's Dominion to beef it up against the Horses, as we know they want hey, I mean blood ;D
But then again, I found the exact quote from Tamar Rising, which again adds to the confusion, although this quote was (?) from the very beginning of Jiyi's realization of what happened on Terra, and what he was going to do about it, but the time line, DOES Baxter come later after this "statement", to rescue Hasara and Jiyi has received word (or perhaps calls for unification) from Stephanie, in the mean time I wonder ?
But now, Jiyi was free to enact
his vision, and to the assembled
survivors he made his case.
His people had Sudeten, with
its formidable factories; they
had sibkos nearing graduation,
and a loyal civilian populace from
which to draw freeborn warriors. Most
importantly, they had VaultShip Gamma,
with its incredible wealth and ties to the
Rasalhague Dominion. Why should they, proud and
undefeated Jade Falcons, bow down to Clan Wolf? Why
should they follow this Merchant Queen of Alyina, who
claimed lordship over them? Why should they continue in the
ways of the Mongols, the failed principles of Malvina Hazen
that led to death and defeat?
The vote was unanimous. The assembled would retain
their identity, and their honor, and rebuild their Clan from the
assets on hand. And the person to lead the reconstituted Jade
Falcons into the future would be Khan Jiyi Chistu
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Hmmmm...
Then what we really need is a whole new novel that resolves this.
Which means more time.
Regardless, we live in exciting times!
yes that's something that made me wonder as well, it's obvious that one side Baxter is sold on the Black Watch Falcons ( which would mean implicitely thst Jiyi is on board too) but again there's that part in TR and the fact that he's calling himself Khan that seems to mean the opposite..
I believe the solution to this will come in Empire Alone, where we will see if the Black Watch Falcons are still Clan Falcon as IlClan seems to say or they became basically a cluster of Clan Wolf and CJF is something else (Jiyi).
As well, a solution could be that Jiyi "denounced" the Wolfs and their victory before knowing exactly what happened with the Black Watch deal and now he's more chill with it.
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IlClan was pretty explicit that the Jade Falcons are a separate entity still. They are a full Clan bodyguard unit, essentially.
But I can't imagine they will be entirely confined to Terra. Maybe for the time being, but not permanently so.
Empire Alone, on the other hand, is said by the writers and developers to specifically deal with the Wolf Empire and Free Worlds League (and their internal factions, like the Clan Protectorate), and that's about it. I would not expect to get a lot of info about the Falcons there, though maybe I'll be surprised because between genesis and publishing, things can change.
But I can say that I've inquired and been told that it's not going to be a source of material for much beyond the two factions I mentioned.
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an entire clan as a bodyguard is over kill, and reserving the ENTIRE clan for bodyguard duties would also greatly reduce their efficancy. a better approuch would be to have a "black watch Kieshik" that is basicly the jade falcon alpha galaxy, and then the falcons would persue their own intreasts elsewhere, which would consist of keeping their troops sharp, ensuring they had resources to guard the ilkhan etc
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an entire clan as a bodyguard is over kill, and reserving the ENTIRE clan for bodyguard duties would also greatly reduce their efficancy. a better approuch would be to have a "black watch Kieshik" that is basicly the jade falcon alpha galaxy, and then the falcons would persue their own intreasts elsewhere, which would consist of keeping their troops sharp, ensuring they had resources to guard the ilkhan etc
I'm just going by what's in IlClan. I agree with the thought that the Falcons require their own worlds and resources, but right now, that's out of their reach.
The true Star League had a Black Watch Regiment. Knowing Alaric, he might want an entire Galaxy for his bodyguard unit. That's IF they all survive the coming storms, as well as manage to greatly build strength.
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I'm just going by what's in IlClan. I agree with the thought that the Falcons require their own worlds and resources, but right now, that's out of their reach.
The true Star League had a Black Watch Regiment. Knowing Alaric, he might want an entire Galaxy for his bodyguard unit. That's IF they all survive the coming storms, as well as manage to greatly build strength.
a bodyguard cluster makes the most sense, but a galaxy would enable him to rotate the unit a bit as well as use it to guard other important stuff (one cluster guards him on campaign, one guards the palace on terra one guards his latest special project etc)
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Alaric may simply use the the prestige of First Lord's bodyguard / Royal Black Watch to give purpose and loyalty to the nearly-destroyed Falcons, but then actually use them as an elite unit in offensive operations.
Then again, while I think that he might prefer Wolves protecting him, he has shown an appreciation for talent first (such as his multi-Clan posse). He might be smart enough to truly be a multinational First Lord.
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a bodyguard cluster makes the most sense, but a galaxy would enable him to rotate the unit a bit as well as use it to guard other important stuff (one cluster guards him on campaign, one guards the palace on terra one guards his latest special project etc)
Thanks, I remembered it almost right ^-^
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Germany didn't liquidate 90% or more of their scientists.
However, it is plainly said that Malvina was killing her scientists for failing to find a way through the Fortress Wall. So they did have some scientists. I imagine they are a fearful lot who wish their Society brethren had succeeded.
Jeez Malvina has got to be up there with amaris on the “ death orders”
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yes that's something that made me wonder as well, it's obvious that one side Baxter is sold on the Black Watch Falcons ( which would mean implicitely thst Jiyi is on board too) but again there's that part in TR and the fact that he's calling himself Khan that seems to mean the opposite..
I believe the solution to this will come in Empire Alone, where we will see if the Black Watch Falcons are still Clan Falcon as IlClan seems to say or they became basically a cluster of Clan Wolf and CJF is something else (Jiyi).
As well, a solution could be that Jiyi "denounced" the Wolfs and their victory before knowing exactly what happened with the Black Watch deal and now he's more chill with it.
Good deduction and point, my thoughts more on the matter too, since the beginning "declaration of state" by Jiyi in Tamar Rising, things could have changed, perhaps Star Colonel Baxter's message / convo with Hasara in NSFV, does indeed hint that behind the scenes something HAS happened between Jiyi's Jade Dominion and SLDF Falcons in the positive, also given the time line too.
Also, another tiny thing I noticed, in Baxter's conversation, he says "A Herald of Khan Chistu, or sorts", Jiyi is not "specifically" mentioned by first name, and Baxter is not mentioned in Tamar Rising (but Hasara is ?), is he from "Stephanie's" Touman perhaps, as reinforcements to Jiyi, and Jiyi then says to go and gather up the troops
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Good deduction and point, my thoughts more on the matter too, since the beginning "declaration of state" by Jiyi in Tamar Rising, things could have changed, perhaps Star Colonel Baxter's message / convo with Hasara in NSFV, does indeed hint that behind the scenes something HAS happened between Jiyi's Jade Dominion and SLDF Falcons in the positive, also given the time line too.
Also, another tiny thing I noticed, in Baxter's conversation, he says "A Herald of Khan Chistu, or sorts", Jiyi is not "specifically" mentioned by first name, and Baxter is not mentioned in Tamar Rising (but Hasara is ?), is he from "Stephanie's" Touman perhaps, as reinforcements to Jiyi, and Jiyi then says to go and gather up the troops
didn't we get confirmation he was refering to Jiyi?
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didn't we get confirmation he was refering to Jiyi?
woops, yeah, just checked the Writer's Forum, but I first thought when I was reading the book it was Stephanie, as they left Jiyi's name out of it
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woops, yeah, just checked the Writer's Forum, but I first thought when I was reading the book it was Stephanie, as they left Jiyi's name out of it
I personally think the ambiguity would have been fine - it would have given us something to really debate about.
But I am glad that it was settled in the writer's forum. I like the Falcon Dominion. They have the machines, and now, they have the warriors to pilot them.
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where's the name Falcon Dominion come from?
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Brain damage? ;D
I should just say Sudeten.
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Dominion:
1. sovereignty or control.
"man's attempt to establish dominion over nature"
2. the territory of a sovereign or government.
"the Angevin dominions"
Yup, I'll salute that flag ;)
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Dominion:
1. sovereignty or control.
"man's attempt to establish dominion over nature"
2. the territory of a sovereign or government.
"the Angevin dominions"
Yup, I'll salute that flag ;)
It was also used for a time to describe self governing colonies of the British Empire, such as Canada and Australia.
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I personally think the ambiguity would have been fine - it would have given us something to really debate about.
But I am glad that it was settled in the writer's forum. I like the Falcon Dominion. They have the machines, and now, they have the warriors to pilot them.
I coined it the "Jade Dominion" a few pages ago in this thread or another related... >:D
But in all seriousness, the quote that "The Age of Occupation Zones are over" as the ilClan is here, is floating around somewhere...
Yes does indeed make the case for the new name (and the new Mother / Father Falcon) attitude that Jiyi and Stephanie espouse for proper rebuilding and progress
On the Tamar Rising map, Jiyi's territory is simply called "Clan Jade Falcon", with no "Occupation Zone", but is the spirit and unofficial name "Jade or Falcon Dominion" for what really the new CJF actually is now ?
The two names both make sense though, as "Clan Jade Falcon" espouses that, "yes this is us and our home", but "Jade Dominion" also represents that and change in thinking / policies and progress. Kinda like the Bears perhaps ?
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So, the "failed to launch" sibling of Jiyi's and Marena's crews - the Turkina Ascendancy.
Organized a scorched earth withdrawal from coreward Periphery worlds and tried to set up shop on Barcelona, utilizing what remained of ancient (Reunification War-level ancient) fortresses that led to the planet being classified as a "Hedgehog World" during its time with the Rim Worlds Republic.
Overrun by the Hell's Horses, but put up a solid fight that lasted until the storm season ended and the Horses' superior air assets tipped the balance. What do you think Star Colonel M'oko and his merry marauders would have done if STAMPEDE hadn't come knocking at their door?
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It was also used for a time to describe self governing colonies of the British Empire, such as Canada and Australia.
Could make sense too, if indeed Jiyi and Stephanie link up, "Clan Jade Falcon" in general, and Jade / Falcon Dominion in name ?
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So, the "failed to launch" sibling of Jiyi's and Marena's crews - the Turkina Ascendancy.
Organized a scorched earth withdrawal from coreward Periphery worlds and tried to set up shop on Barcelona, utilizing what remained of ancient (Reunification War-level ancient) fortresses that led to the planet being classified as a "Hedgehog World" during its time with the Rim Worlds Republic.
Overrun by the Hell's Horses, but put up a solid fight that lasted until the storm season ended and the Horses' superior air assets tipped the balance. What do you think Star Colonel M'oko and his merry marauders would have done if STAMPEDE hadn't come knocking at their door?
Would make sense to support Jiyi, and try to link up with him, but then this would have annoyed Marena
Did anything of the Ascendancy survive, or simply annihilated ?
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They'd gotten as far as declaring Barcelona as their capital, and were focusing on getting their short Cluster fully integrated with the sibkos pulled from Somerset before venturing out to seize more territory.
A future author could do something with scout forces that happened to be offworld at the time the Horses arrived, but for all intents and purposes, the Ascendancy was erased from the maps by STAMPEDE.
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Dominion:
1. sovereignty or control.
"man's attempt to establish dominion over nature"
2. the territory of a sovereign or government.
"the Angevin dominions"
Yup, I'll salute that flag ;)
All hail Worktroll! He has spoken!
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So, the "failed to launch" sibling of Jiyi's and Marena's crews - the Turkina Ascendancy.
Organized a scorched earth withdrawal from coreward Periphery worlds and tried to set up shop on Barcelona, utilizing what remained of ancient (Reunification War-level ancient) fortresses that led to the planet being classified as a "Hedgehog World" during its time with the Rim Worlds Republic.
Overrun by the Hell's Horses, but put up a solid fight that lasted until the storm season ended and the Horses' superior air assets tipped the balance. What do you think Star Colonel M'oko and his merry marauders would have done if STAMPEDE hadn't come knocking at their door?
I seem to recall reading somewhere that said Ascendancy was run by elements of the Mongol faction, if so they'd likely not get along with Jiyi. especially as Jiyi's claim to the Khanship is, pretty weak all considered
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Their scorched earth tactics definitely suggest Mongol tendencies. They wanted to cause enough damage that any aggressor would be too busy cleaning up the mess to bother them on Barcelona.
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Their scorched earth tactics definitely suggest Mongol tendencies. They wanted to cause enough damage that any aggressor would be too busy cleaning up the mess to bother them on Barcelona.
yeah if thats the case my guess is they'd not have linked up with Jiyi. and I suspect their reaction would be to laugh in his face
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yeah if thats the case my guess is they'd not have linked up with Jiyi. and I suspect their reaction would be to laugh in his face
It's a moot point, now.
They gone!
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It's a moot point, now.
They gone!
since when has that stopped endless speculation? :)
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since when has that stopped endless speculation? :)
True. It would have probably been yet another fight that the survivors of Jade Falcon just don't need.
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Were they a particular galaxy? Would make a nice failed state build.
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Were they a particular galaxy? Would make a nice failed state build.
Just left overs from other solhama/garrison groupings I’m pretty sure.
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Were they a particular galaxy? Would make a nice failed state build.
Most likely? Zeta Galaxy. That was the solahma galaxy during Malvina's tenure.
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Were they a particular galaxy? Would make a nice failed state build.
They were the Somerset sibkos, solahma scrapings from half a dozen worlds, and paramilitary police, with transport assets seized from a Free Guild. They managed to field the understrength Turkina Ascendant Cluster. They specialized in ambushes and hit and run attacks during the Barcelona campaign.
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They were the Somerset sibkos, solahma scrapings from half a dozen worlds, and paramilitary police, with transport assets seized from a Free Guild. They managed to field the understrength Turkina Ascendant Cluster. They specialized in ambushes and hit and run attacks during the Barcelona campaign.
OK, so they would have had a mix of Falcon paint schemes?
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I'd guess camo, given their appetite for ambush. M'oko wasn't a big fan of batchalls or zellbrigen.
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I can work with that ... (just what I need, an IlClan-era unit which I'd need to buy some IWM minis for ... and them not able to ship Down Under.)
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Quick Turkina Ascendancy question, which Perhipery Holding did they move from to Barcelona, before being wiped out ?
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They pulled in forces from Somerset, Bone-Norman, Black Earth, Beta VII, and Newtown Square, massing on Barcelona.
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They pulled in forces from Somerset, Bone-Norman, Black Earth, Beta VII, and Newtown Square, massing on Barcelona.
they need to let the Lyrans eventually push all the way to Somerset just so that Roderick can have a "I have returned" moment of returning to his family's ancestral home...
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Hey ol' Beck Malthus is still alive and kicking post ilClan Trial, quiaff ?
(Remember a line or something about him being the new Loremaster of 3rd Star League)
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Beckett died in 3145 after a failed bid to remove Malvina from power.
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Beckett died in 3145 after a failed bid to remove Malvina from power.
And Malvina subsequently Reaved his bloodright from existence.
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And Malvina subsequently Reaved his bloodright from existence.
Ahh, now I remember correctly, Nortimo Helmer got made the new loremaster, quiaff ?
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Ahh, now I remember correctly, Nortimo Helmer got made the new loremaster, quiaff ?
Yes, that was him.
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And Malvina subsequently Reaved his bloodright from existence.
Speaking of, I'd like to formally predict this is going to happen to Malvina.
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I agree.
I figure there's going to be only a couple of each Bloodnamed to have survived the Battle for Terra.
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it's not even just that, I expect Malvina's genetics won't be used for future sibkos.
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That's practically a given.
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Now we have to make a hidden clone sibko of her.
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it's not even just that, I expect Malvina's genetics won't be used for future sibkos.
need to annihilate everything that has anything to do with her.
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need to annihilate everything that has anything to do with her.
Yeppers >:D Although on the side, humorous idea about the clone thing
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need to annihilate everything that has anything to do with her.
yeah there have been more ruinious khans in clan history but it's a pretty short list that basicly exists by dint of Malvina not getting the falcons outright absorbed or annialated
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What I would find interesting going forward into ilClan Era Jade Falcon, is Cynthy, joining the ranks in some capacity ?
Also from Dark Age, where did "Ichiba Pryde" end up, as she did not share the mongol belief either like Steph, Jiyi, Nortimo, Archer, would be good to add her to the A team
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What I would find interesting going forward into ilClan Era Jade Falcon, is Cynthy, joining the ranks in some capacity ?
Iirc she disappeared after her Jack the Ripper phase
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Iirc she disappeared after her Jack the Ripper phase
Yeah I know, but would be interesting to see how she moves on, developing some how into a "protector" role, or even vigilante ?
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Now we have to make a hidden clone sibko of her.
Or a hidden freeborn child. Y'see, this explains why she was such an utter beeswax; denial of one night of passion which "ruined" her.
It'd be a daughter. I see the novel now - Star Lady!
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Or a hidden freeborn child. Y'see, this explains why she was such an utter beeswax; denial of one night of passion which "ruined" her.
It'd be a daughter. I see the novel now - Star Lady!
Quick! Assemble a rag-tag band of misfits, Clan drop-outs and undercover agents! It's the only known way to defeat this menace.
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I falconed for the first time yesterday. Fighting a two mech per side battle against Clan Smoke Jaguar, it was a might battle indeed. My Turkina A and Timberwolf Prime vs. a Stone Rhino and Ebon Jaguar.
I kept my mechs close and had to maneuver around a large area of elevated rocky terrain. Determined to go after the Stone Rhino first it seemed the EBJ would get to me first. Eventually we got into
firing range with each other. Myself hitting the SR as much as possible with my Timby taking as I remember all the enemy fire at the time. He did what he could but was the first to fall. I slugged it out with
the SR and eventually felled the beast with gauss fire and LRMs. Events then took a serious turn. By the end stage of the battle it was just my Turkina against the Ebon Jaguar. I could only kick and my opponent
could only punch. By then I was on center torso spot away from death. I was given the option of calling it there but quickly and defiantly answered with a quick "No!"
Somehow I managed to press on, hit the right areas and win the day!
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Welcome to the Eyrie :thumbsup: This is a very exciting time for new Falcons
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Greetings warriors,
It has been a long, long time since I have posted here. So long that I am pretty sure my old account has since been removed, but I remember when the first, massive CJF Chatterweb thread got locked and restarted on the old boards.
For me, the Dark Ages are truly a dark age in my knowledge of BattleTech in general and CJF in particular. I stopped paying close attention after the Jihad and I am now catching up with the ilClan stuff and working backwards to fill in the gaps.
With all the new developments happening in Clan Jade Falcon and having a freeborn eyas of my own who is ready to begin warrior training I thought I would return and see what is going on on the Chatterweb.
I also have a question that I hope you all could shed some light on: who are the 1st Falcon Sentinels? All I see is them referenced on CamoSpecs -- great insignia and paint job by the way -- but have not found any reference to them in my usual sources.
It is good to be back and I am excited to see what happens with the Clan.
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That's...a bit of a story. For the whole rundown, you'll want to read Tamar Rising.
The short version is that when Malvina and 90-odd% of the Clan went to Terra, some of those who were left to fend for themselves formed the Sentinels. They're commonly referred to as the Fallen Falcons or Sudeten Falcons.
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Interesting, thanks Weirdo. It looks like I will have to get myself a copy -- as if that book was not already on my list. So I am guessing the planet on their insignia is Sudeten.
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Ahhh, the good old Arkham Bridge of Sudeten :thumbsup:
You are immortal Carole 8)
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Fellow Falcons, I am doing abit of an art project, will post when finished...
I thought I had this picture somewhere, but alas I do not
What is the Cluster / Galaxy of our Falcon gripping a serpent ?
Thank you 8)
>>>Nevermind, I found it, Rho Galaxy logo was it
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Putting together a Star of Falcons for a game based after the Coventry campaign, but before the Jihad. The Mechs will be painted for the game. No configurations are listed because they will be treated as actual Omnimechs for this, and so the config will change regularly- even to customs where possible.
Night Gyr (command)
Summoner
Cougar
Nova
I need one more for this... not really feeling the high-speed antics of a Fire Falcon or Black Lanner, the Kit Fox and Hellbringer are hot garbage (come on, let's be real here), a second Summoner is doable but a little bland, Night Gyr and Warhawk are a little too big and bulky (honestly even that Gyr is kind of worrying), and with the rules in place for swapping weapons and equipment it seems a shame to lean on a standard Battlemech like a Vapor Eagle or Griffin IIC or any of that.
Thoughts?
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Looking at their RATs from FM:CC for inspiration, my suggestions would be Puma, Ryoken, Linebacker, or Crossbow. The first three give you a solid fighter that isn't a speedster but is still faster than average for when you really need to flank someone, and the last is cheap and easy to repair in a campaign. And an insult to Steel Vipers, which is always a plus.
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Looking at their RATs from FM:CC for inspiration, my suggestions would be Puma, Ryoken, Linebacker, or Crossbow. The first three give you a solid fighter that isn't a speedster but is still faster than average for when you really need to flank someone, and the last is cheap and easy to repair in a campaign. And an insult to Steel Vipers, which is always a plus.
My suggestion would be something similar, adding a faster 'Mech in the 6/9 speed range to chase down fast enemies & scout. Looking at the MUL I'd add the Battle Cobra to the list
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Have to note that FM:CC sounds like Field Manual Capellan Confederation ;D
I have to ask, is the Cougar that much better than the Kit Fox? It is slower, with only a bit more armor. Honestly always thought the Falcons a bit weird for making another similar 'Mech.
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Those few extra points of armor are a huge difference, as they allow a Cougar to actually take 10-pt hits without breaching, and the CT can actually take 2 Clan medium lasers. On the other hand, the Uller's shell is thin enough that there's very real odds that the first solid salvo to land is going to force crit rolls, or even sever limbs if 15-point guns are running around.
That extra turn or two of survivability is extremely important, especially given the raw firepower most Cougars pack.
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No affection for Storm Crows or Mad Dogs, Hellbie? They seem to be what you're asking for....or are you looking for something Falcon specific?
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Those few extra points of armor are a huge difference, as they allow a Cougar to actually take 10-pt hits without breaching, and the CT can actually take 2 Clan medium lasers. On the other hand, the Uller's shell is thin enough that there's very real odds that the first solid salvo to land is going to force crit rolls, or even sever limbs if 15-point guns are running around.
That extra turn or two of survivability is extremely important, especially given the raw firepower most Cougars pack.
Okay, turns out i underestimated how much armor 1.5 tons of Clan FF actually adds, and completely forgot to think about break points. Getting to at least 10 points per location is a big deal for sure.
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Yeah, Cougars are a lot like Elementals - killing one isn't actually that hard, but doing so quickly usually requires just a little more firepower/effort than people want to put into eliminating a target that size. Since folks often don't actually send enough gun to guarantee a quick kill, it lasts longer than it should.
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Shadow Cat is on the Falcon MUL for Civil War Era, and the Falcons eventually build the Shadow Cat II. Grendel is, too, as well as on the Falcon RAT in FM: CC, presumably cause Sharks are selling. Either or Battle Cobra isorla would provide the star with some speed/mobility on point without the extremeness of the Black Lanner.
But honestly, if I can reconfigure the omni, I would take the survivability of the Lanner’s weight and armor — or that of a vanilla but competent Stormcrow — over any of those options.
Not knowing anything else about the campaign, I would probably not double down on more 4/6 or 5/8 chassis for flexibility’s sake. (But there’s always the Turkina at 3/5!)
Obviously, BV or some other constraint would change answers. And if all else fails, field Howlers.
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For Hellbie's Star, i second Nat and think the Shadow Cat seems quite suitable. Not a speed demon like Fire Falcon or Black Lanner but has that mobility the Falcons like.
The Battle Cobra or possibly Crossbow could be Ok as well, nothing wrong using Viper salvage, is there?
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...the Kit Fox and Hellbringer are hot garbage (come on, let's be real here)...
Are you even allowed to say this? What if the Watch is listening? xp
I would echo the comments about the Stormcrow being what you're looking for. Or, for a bit more, consider honoring your former Crusader trothkin the Jaguars and stick an Ebon Jaguar in for your fifth machine. 5/8 with a thick armor belt and some respectable configs. IS Clan General for the Civil War per the MUL, too.
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Putting together a Star of Falcons for a game based after the Coventry campaign, but before the Jihad. The Mechs will be painted for the game. No configurations are listed because they will be treated as actual Omnimechs for this, and so the config will change regularly- even to customs where possible.
Night Gyr (command)
Summoner
Cougar
Nova
I need one more for this... not really feeling the high-speed antics of a Fire Falcon or Black Lanner, the Kit Fox and Hellbringer are hot garbage (come on, let's be real here), a second Summoner is doable but a little bland, Night Gyr and Warhawk are a little too big and bulky (honestly even that Gyr is kind of worrying), and with the rules in place for swapping weapons and equipment it seems a shame to lean on a standard Battlemech like a Vapor Eagle or Griffin IIC or any of that.
Thoughts?
Maybe slip a timber wolf in? if it's Coventry this is going to be a period when salvage from the wolves is at an all time high.
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If you're not feeling the high speed antics of the Black Lanner and Fire Falcon, I'd probably go with something mid-speed and not particularly heavy like a Battle Cobra or another Cougar. The weapons to make the Cougar E come available in the FCCW era and that little bugger is nasty. Stormcrow and Nova for honorable mentions depending on your desired game size.
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Stormcrow. Everything's better with Stormcrow, especially as you're allowing omni swaps between scenarios. Although if you can justify a TC ...
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Stormcrow, Mad Dog, or a Shadow Cat. They've been mentioned already and for good reasons! Pick one. Kill stuff.
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Quick FYI, the innate jumping ability, reasonable pod space, and raw badassery of the Shadow Cat won the day. Thank you to all involved!
Weirdo's point about the Cougar is a valid one- it's usually not the most dangerous unit on the field, so it's not a priority to wipe out- but it has enough muscle that it can cause some serious problems if left alone. It's like the Jagermech in a way- unless it's the only target available, you probably don't care much about it, but those hits add up fast, and you find yourself regretting not spending a turn testing that beer-can armor.
In zellbrigen though is where the Cougar really shines. It's slower than most similar-weight Mechs, but it turns around and uses that saved weight on guns and armor- and again, as before, the armor isn't TOUGH, but tough enough to take a few hits that other light/low-end medium Mechs can pump out for a little longer than a Kit Fox could... while dishing out some serious pain in reply. Look at those configs- leaving out customs for the moment, some of those outmuscle IS Mechs double its size. There isn't a dud among the Cougar's configs- I'm particularly attached to the D for some reason. One or two turns and you've torn your opponent's engine clean out- and your armor is still intact. Customizing it can really get fun- see the C, with the Gauss and laser array? Ever noticed that an Ultra-20 weighs exactly the same as a Gauss? In case you want to go all Hunchback-y on someone? A Pouncer-D themed Streak array is a fun one too. In standard Hellbie fashion, there's even plans in case of infantry trouble with jump jets and a horde of war-crime weaponry like flamers ready to go (tentatively saved on my laptop as a Cougar S, thematically).
It's not a fantastic Mech in the way a Stormcrow or Warhawk is, able to just dominate the field with its abilities, but like other great sneaky-designs like the Jagermech, it's hard to ignore it for too long without regretting it. And in its weight class, it's a nightmare to put down in a duel- years ago, I used a B to take down an Orion in a duel, and fought to a standstill- I was down a PPC and had two engine hits, but he was in such bad shape that he ended up breaking his bid in an attempt to win. That's over double my size, and I was able to beat him up until he had to throw his honor away- that's a victory in itself.
...and if we're honest, the Cougar is one of the more distinctive and nicer-looking Mechs in the game, so that doesn't hurt either. ;)
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Ok, just checking back in and reading up on what's going on, two thumbs up for pragmatism and practicality. So, I guess I'll side with Jiyi. Had to skip a lot of anything to do with Malvina. That was depressing, lol. But, time goes on and hopefully so do the Jade Falcons.
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Ok, just checking back in and reading up on what's going on, two thumbs up for pragmatism and practicality. So, I guess I'll side with Jiyi. Had to skip a lot of anything to do with Malvina. That was depressing, lol. But, time goes on and hopefully so do the Jade Falcons.
Aye brother, Stephanie and Jiyi ! Forget about the "Not-named Hazen" the dishonor is over
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Just read on sarna that the fate of Martha pryde is fleshed out in “
Battletech legends” but does any know which novel this?
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Not a novel, BattleTech: Legends is sort of art/story/source book. Features characters across BT eras and their 'Mechs.
https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/products/battletech-legends
This thing.
Come to think of it, terrible naming to call the novel line Legends along with a sourcebook...
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Not a novel, BattleTech: Legends is sort of art/story/source book. Features characters across BT eras and their 'Mechs.
https://store.catalystgamelabs.com/products/battletech-legends
This thing.
Come to think of it, terrible naming to call the novel line Legends along with a sourcebook...
Right?! Thanks!
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Aye brother, Stephanie and Jiyi ! Forget about the "Not-named Hazen" the dishonor is over
Reave that blood heritage! Jiyi really shined in the book.
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Reave that blood heritage! Jiyi really shined in the book.
Is this in Legends, quiaff ?
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Is this in Legends, quiaff ?
New novel A Question of Survival an in depth look at the Falcon raid of Ghost Bear territory covered in Tamar Rising. It also explores the challenges faced by the Fallen Falcons and Ghost Bears since the iClan was declared.
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New novel A Question of Survival an in depth look at the Falcon raid of Ghost Bear territory covered in Tamar Rising. It also explores the challenges faced by the Fallen Falcons and Ghost Bears since the iClan was declared.
Thanks :thumbsup:
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Bloodhouse Hazen has had some oddballs since the invasion. Nekane Hazen (the Red Corsair) and Malvina both had some serious issues. Maybe the Scientists need to look for some crosses with more stable (even lesser performing houses).
Maybe some of the Widowmaker genes that Wolf has been using.
But I personally think the Bloodhouse should be Reaved by one count.
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Malvina overcame all challenges thrown her way for decades, won victory after victory, and brought the Clan to Terra itself, losing the ilClan trial only because it was secretly a 2-on-1 against her. Is she not the epitome of the Clan way? Stephanie waited until the title of Khan was handed to her by a Wolf before she really did anything.
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Epitome? No. She's not unlike Amaris, opposite of the Clan Way. Weapons of mass destruction, wasteful attacks, attacks on civilians, etc etc.
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Epitome? No. She's not unlike Amaris, opposite of the Clan Way. Weapons of mass destruction, wasteful attacks, attacks on civilians, etc etc.
Remember how the Smoke Jaguars were embarrassed after razing Edo? And no Clan bid WarShips again during Revival.
Malvina's use of WarShips is indisputable evidence her Warrior's couldn't win a fight. Reave!
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Malvina overcame all challenges thrown her way for decades, won victory after victory, and brought the Clan to Terra itself, losing the ilClan trial only because it was secretly a 2-on-1 against her. Is she not the epitome of the Clan way? Stephanie waited until the title of Khan was handed to her by a Wolf before she really did anything.
The Clans have embraced the “cult of personality” as long as Malvina was winning certain segments suspended their disbelief. Now with her death and defeat she will be cursed, compared to Amaris, and all her gene children will have to work twice as hard to get anywhere. After reading a Question of Survival I am actually rooting for them since the Falcon warrior have finally removed that steel pole from their spine.
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The Clans have embraced the “cult of personality” as long as Malvina was winning certain segments suspended their disbelief. Now with her death and defeat she will be cursed, compared to Amaris, and all her gene children will have to work twice as hard to get anywhere. After reading a Question of Survival I am actually rooting for them since the Falcon warrior have finally removed that steel pole from their spine.
And as Tamar rising has shown those that were living under the Falcons didn't care who is now the Falcon leader. The ones on Terra might be feel rather safe behind the walls instead of being executed by an angry mob of conquered people because the Falcons have an image of senseless brutality on them and now they are probably seen as weak with their Chingis Khan dead and theirt touman smashed to pieces.
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And as Tamar rising has shown those that were living under the Falcons didn't care who is now the Falcon leader. The ones on Terra might be feel rather safe behind the walls instead of being executed by an angry mob of conquered people because the Falcons have an image of senseless brutality on them and now they are probably seen as weak with their Chingis Khan dead and theirt touman smashed to pieces.
Hopefully now that The Not Named Hazen is gone, Stephanie, Jiyi and Tara get to work on good PR
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Not sure about the others but Tara will do some PR. No claims about good or bad, but it will be PR.
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Not sure about the others but Tara will do some PR. No claims about good or bad, but it will be PR.
That will be first and foremost on Terra. Terrans suffered a lot under Malvina (who should have died in Operation Nighthawk imho) so Tara has to do some real overtime PR to turn that motion around lest she and what remains of Clan Jade Falcon get tarred with the same brush (and let's not say that about Clan Wolf as well if the mentioned underground propaganda is still going)
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That will be first and foremost on Terra. Terrans suffered a lot under Malvina (who should have died in Operation Nighthawk imho) so Tara has to do some real overtime PR to turn that motion around lest she and what remains of Clan Jade Falcon get tarred with the same brush (and let's not say that about Clan Wolf as well if the mentioned underground propaganda is still going)
I'm sure a woman who can be easily labeled a turn coat collaborator will be highly effective in that job
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I'm sure a woman who can be easily labeled a turn coat collaborator will be highly effective in that job
Well you could also say "The woman who didn't kill the Ilkhan when she had the chance"
Then again what alternative do the Terrans have? An uprising might work (Hello Tau Galaxy) but would leave the planet vulnerable for the vultures (House Liao and House Kurita or even another Clan) as the walls don't have much life in them left. Ironically by destroying the defenses (Space Stations, RAf fleet, Redoubts) the Wolves are actually the only defense for Terra left.
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I remember that when Tara (reluctantly) accepted her transfer to Clan Jade Falcon, she made a condition to Stephanie, that she was there to keep the Falcons to their more honorable roots, to safeguard against any mongol stuff lying around. And Stephanie said she would have it no other way
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Ugh, I'm gonna have to actually read Hour of the Wolf for bits like that, aren't I?
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Ugh, I'm gonna have to actually read Hour of the Wolf for bits like that, aren't I?
well unless CGL hires someone to re-write HOTW... then yes
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Considering how much was going on all over the planet, they could have done it Tukayyid style with short stories. It'd make a neat anthology.
I'm looking forward to seeing free-range Jade Falcon (Jiyu's) bump into domesticated Jade Falcon (Stephanie's). We have a potential Jade Wolves situation going forward since Malvina bid the whole Touman.
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Considering how much was going on all over the planet, they could have done it Tukayyid style with short stories. It'd make a neat anthology.
Intreasting idea, stretch the fall of terra out across several novels and anthologies..
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I am curious to see, all "three" Falcons address the threat of the Horses looking for blood.
Will Stephanie (3153 ?) push towards Sudeten and Jiyi's Jade Dominion to re-enforce it, both militarily and economically If she can base off Bear Worlds, as part of the new SLDF, that are near the former tip of the spear to Sudeten, ie: La grave ? As it stands, it would work both way, as Sudeten has sibkos and mechs, to help Blackwatch Falcon's material problems (Also is not Star Colonel Baxter, (from Stephanie ? or bearing news about her?) is up in the Jade Dominion too.
Does Sudeten hold Blood legacies and the Iron Wombs ? or does Stephanie's forces have their copies too
Will (more out of necessity) Marena ally with them too, or atleast form a defensive pact to act as a "wall" to stop the Horses incursions and take over plans ?
As we can say, in the end, we are all Falcon, then with a (loose) alliance, perhaps all three Falcons can claim an equal share of neutral territory left in the (anti-spinward region) of the former Occupation Zone, by treaty, near, but not border with the Tamar Pact, Brewer and his Marches, and the Kell Hounds
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The AMl seems more bent on being it's own thing imho.
For Colonel Baxter, the big headscratch is that he's confirmed to be one of Jiyi's men, but he knows about the result of the ilClan trial and his position is that he's cool with it ( and so Jiyi, supposedly), so the timeline of No Substitute for Victory is more advanced than that of A Question of Survival but how they solve the conflict of station it is unknown to me.
I can say though that Jiyi seems to still be in charge from what I can gather from Col. Baxter.
For the other question, I understood that on Sudeten they have the genetic legacies but missing the actual Iron Wombs at the moment ( no doubt our preferred merchant clan will provide)
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Considering how much was going on all over the planet, they could have done it Tukayyid style with short stories. It'd make a neat anthology.
I hadn’t heard anyone suggest a Tukayyid style book for Terra. If you mean by breaking up various campaigns and sequences into something like those clan specific Tukayyid campaigns, I like that. Blue Heron / China is a sequence, Four Horsemen and Wrecking ball as one…
I like this. A lot.
Intreasting idea, stretch the fall of terra out across several novels and anthologies..
I will punt on this idea unless the various authors wouldn’t have been bound by Pardoe’s “the Republic deserves to lose 100% of its engagements, on every level” goal
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I'll just say at this point i have no interest in any part of Battle of Terra, whether it is to read about it or to play it, even if it was rewritten (which it won't be). Just forget it and let's move on.
At least we got rid of Malvina, can actually consider painting a Falcon unit after all.
Just as with Inner Sphere factions, kinda leaning toward generic camo paint job for the original OmniMecs (even though none of the Falcon factions field all of them, ignoring the Warhawk), and getting some Falcon-specific mechs and painting them with some Falcon scheme. Still too bad the Falcon 'Mechs are spread across so many force packs. Wish there was a pack with Fire Falcon, Black Lanner, Night Gyr, Turkina, and... dunno, Battle Cobra.
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I'll just say at this point i have no interest in any part of Battle of Terra, whether it is to read about it or to play it, even if it was rewritten (which it won't be). Just forget it and let's move on.
Really, this. I just found the idea of a Tukayyid Style Terra book neat.
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Oh there were some Clan defeats besides the Battle of Japan...
But like the rest of CBT, there are stories everywhere.
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Just double checking some facts for my clicktech miniatures collection
Jiyi: Does Jiyi pilot anything else but a Gryfalcon ?
Stephanie: In HotW she piloted a Shrike. What did she use in the other novels she is featured in ? I remember hearing something about a Heiro Falcon, after her Shrike was destroyed ?
Archer Pryde: ? also Ichiba Pryde, what happened to her ? I think she piloted a Shrike
Nortimo Helmer: ?
Khalus Pryde: Jupiter
Also, what book or site has a list of all the new Falcon mechs ? Master Unit ?
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Random question, Did Diana Pryde pilot a Nova A or a custom Nova, that just had the two PPCs and left off the Medium Pulse laser. I don't recall her ever using anything but the PPCs in Falcon Rising, but I don't know if what her exact variant was ever published, Sarna just said she used a Nova. (I don't own that book, borrowed it from a friend a while ago, so good chance my memory is flawed on this).
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Just double checking some facts for my clicktech miniatures collection
Jiyi: Does Jiyi pilot anything else but a Gryfalcon ?
Stephanie: In HotW she piloted a Shrike. What did she use in the other novels she is featured in ? I remember hearing something about a Heiro Falcon, after her Shrike was destroyed ?
Archer Pryde: ? also Ichiba Pryde, what happened to her ? I think she piloted a Shrike
Nortimo Helmer: ?
Khalus Pryde: Jupiter
Also, what book or site has a list of all the new Falcon mechs ? Master Unit ?
I'm pretty sure Stephanie Chistu piloted a Grand Summoner prior to it being wrecked in one of the novellas that released around the same time as Shattered Fortress.
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Jiyi pilots a Gyr even in the latest book but his skills from Tamar Rising beg for an upgrade at some point ( Jade Phoenix Prime I'm looking at you).
I have no clue about Ichiba but Archerand Khalus are confirmed alive and well with JF on Terra.
Noritomo is Loremaster of the ilClan.
For Rats, Tamars Rising has the list for Jiyi's Falcons, for the ilClan Falcons we have no source yet.
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Yeah, checked Sarna out, Archer and Khalus are alive. Khalus is saKhan, Archer (probably) Star Colonel now of first Blackwatch Cluster, out side new Turkina Keshik
Ichiba seemed to be a character that disappeared without a trace, dead or alive...
Writers, can you help us out ?
Will actually look up my copy of Stephanie's books
Thanks for your references
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Hey, do we have any info on what other mechs were in Jiyi's command star?
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From Tamar Rising, A Question of Survival (currently reading), and No Substitute For Victory
I am currently trying to get a roster on as many named personalities of Jiyi's Falcons.
Can you give a bird a claw :thumbsup:
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Bloodhouse Hazen has had some oddballs since the invasion. Nekane Hazen (the Red Corsair) and Malvina both had some serious issues. Maybe the Scientists need to look for some crosses with more stable (even lesser performing houses).
Maybe some of the Widowmaker genes that Wolf has been using.
But I personally think the Bloodhouse should be Reaved by one count.
Wondering about it, i wonder if the Hazen line had some Society meddling at any point to bring out serious issues in the line to try and get the Falcons Annihilated/Absorbed or the bloodline Reaved? (I'm sooo sorry my Khan but the bloodline is just too unstable now, there's no choice, we did everything we could, yes it is a mark of shame on the whole clan and now every bloodhouse must be investigated by us the Socia... scientist caste, sorry i was thinking how this would affect us as a society and it slipped out, nothing more, there's no secret society of scientists, trying to annihilate you, honest my Khan!) how far back did the Society go? how deep did the Falcons look before they overreacted... again?
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Wondering about it, i wonder if the Hazen line had some Society meddling at any point to bring out serious issues in the line to try and get the Falcons Annihilated/Absorbed or the bloodline Reaved? (I'm sooo sorry my Khan but the bloodline is just too unstable now, there's no choice, we did everything we could, yes it is a mark of shame on the whole clan and now every bloodhouse must be investigated by us the Socia... scientist caste, sorry i was thinking how this would affect us as a society and it slipped out, nothing more, there's no secret society of scientists, trying to annihilate you, honest my Khan!) how far back did the Society go? how deep did the Falcons look before they overreacted... again?
How many times have the Falcons (and other Clans) played the “shoot first, shoot them again, and maybe ask a few questions” game. Malvina was a psychopath whose Clan (and her fellow warriors) permitted her to go too far. She was a result for the “might makes right” program similar to the inbreeding common with the European aristocracy just on a purely psychological and mental level.
I doubt the Society had anything to do with Malvina besides thanks to the War of Reavings I believe the Falcons kept their Science Caste on a pretty tight leash.
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It should be noted that one of Malvina's Falconers specifically encouraged her psychotic behavior and others didn't stop that, so Malvina's on the Falcon Warriors themselves, not their Scientists.
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From Tamar Rising, A Question of Survival (currently reading), and No Substitute For Victory
I am currently trying to get a roster on as many named personalities of Jiyi's Falcons.
Can you give a bird a claw :thumbsup:
To be honest besides Jiyi, Hasara and the characters in the books you mentioned I cannot see anyone, but the author of A question of Survival said the four bear cubs from that book will be become relevant characters ( Alexis especially I suppose)
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Yeah, checked Sarna out, Archer and Khalus are alive. Khalus is saKhan, Archer (probably) Star Colonel now of first Blackwatch Cluster, out side new Turkina Keshik
Ichiba seemed to be a character that disappeared without a trace, dead or alive...
Writers, can you help us out ?
Will actually look up my copy of Stephanie's books
Thanks for your references
Where can this info be found? Or any info at all about the post-IlClan Trial Falcons? I wa8nt aware anything at all had been published on them.
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Khalus and Archer are on p104 ilClan. (Khalus being nominated by Archer as saKhan). I don't know anything about a Blackwatch Cluster.
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How many times have the Falcons (and other Clans) played the “shoot first, shoot them again, and maybe ask a few questions” game. Malvina was a psychopath whose Clan (and her fellow warriors) permitted her to go too far. She was a result for the “might makes right” program similar to the inbreeding common with the European aristocracy just on a purely psychological and mental level.
I doubt the Society had anything to do with Malvina besides thanks to the War of Reavings I believe the Falcons kept their Science Caste on a pretty tight leash.
It should be noted that one of Malvina's Falconers specifically encouraged her psychotic behavior and others didn't stop that, so Malvina's on the Falcon Warriors themselves, not their Scientists.
That doesn't mean that there was no society input ever, that just means that the warriors encouraged what was already a personality trait in one person. apparently the society has been a thing since not long after Klondike, just because they couldn't do anything to Malvina, doesn't mean they didn't leave something there way before her that slowly became more dominant in later generations (since as another pointed out, at least one person of the same bloodhouse was also a bit.. odd, this is the group of scientists that made a tailored virus that attacked only one bloodhouses genetic markers, they can play the long game) such as a higher genetic chance of developing drop-a-warship-on-them-aritus faster than other bloodlines or not removing those tendencies like they do with other bloodhouses that just so happened to come to enough of a fruition in her.
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Where can this info be found? Or any info at all about the post-IlClan Trial Falcons? I wa8nt aware anything at all had been published on them.
Hour of the Wolf (book) and ilClan (manual) mostly.
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Hour of the Wolf (book) and ilClan (manual) mostly.
Do you know where a Blackwatch Cluster was mentioned? I can't find anything mentioning that in either Hour of the Wolf or ilClan.
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Do you know where a Blackwatch Cluster was mentioned? I can't find anything mentioning that in either Hour of the Wolf or ilClan.
There is none I think it's an assumption on some peoples parts that the Jade falcons will dedicate a cluster specificly to the duties of the black watch thus freeing up the rest of the clan to persue their own agenda
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That doesn't mean that there was no society input ever, that just means that the warriors encouraged what was already a personality trait in one person. apparently the society has been a thing since not long after Klondike, just because they couldn't do anything to Malvina, doesn't mean they didn't leave something there way before her that slowly became more dominant in later generations (since as another pointed out, at least one person of the same bloodhouse was also a bit.. odd, this is the group of scientists that made a tailored virus that attacked only one bloodhouses genetic markers, they can play the long game) such as a higher genetic chance of developing drop-a-warship-on-them-aritus faster than other bloodlines or not removing those tendencies like they do with other bloodhouses that just so happened to come to enough of a fruition in her.
I can see Etienne selectively attacking certain blood heritages- especially the more notable ones.
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There is none I think it's an assumption on some peoples parts that the Jade falcons will dedicate a cluster specificly to the duties of the black watch thus freeing up the rest of the clan to persue their own agenda
Yes as far as I can see while it has been said the Terra Falcons picked up bodyguard duties no one mentioned Blackguard clusters explicitely, it's just a nickname from the fans.
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It's a nickname that should be stamped out immediately then, because it's far more "rumor created from whole cloth" than nickname.
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Stephanie: In HotW she piloted a Shrike. What did she use in the other novels she is featured in ? I remember hearing something about a Heiro Falcon, after her Shrike was destroyed ?
Wasn't she piloting a Jade Hawk?
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Wasn't she piloting a Jade Hawk?
Yep, thanks, got my birds mixed up lol
I use the term "Blackwatch Cluster" loosely, and was assuming, that since now Stephanie is now Khan, with Khalus as saKhan, that Archer Pryde (next in pecking order) will probably head up the first Cluster of the post ilClan Trial, whether it be Blackwatch / Bodyguard, or a unit for regular use
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Yep, thanks, got my birds mixed up lol
I use the term "Blackwatch Cluster" loosely, and was assuming, that since now Stephanie is now Khan, with Khalus as saKhan, that Archer Pryde (next in pecking order) will probably head up the first Cluster of the post ilClan Trial, whether it be Blackwatch / Bodyguard, or a unit for regular use
except how do you conclude he's next in the pecking order
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except how do you conclude he's next in the pecking order
The fact he is still alive among the Cluster of Falcons left, and he is mentioned by name
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So guesses and intuition, in other words.
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So guesses and intuition, in other words.
pretty much, we have no idea what other blood named warriors are in the falcons for all we know the falcons galaxy commanders all survived and Archer is the lowest ranked bloodnamed warrior in the clan (That'd be damned odd but...)
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At least we got rid of Malvina, can actually consider painting a Falcon unit after all.
Just as with Inner Sphere factions, kinda leaning toward generic camo paint job for the original OmniMecs (even though none of the Falcon factions field all of them, ignoring the Warhawk), and getting some Falcon-specific mechs and painting them with some Falcon scheme. Still too bad the Falcon 'Mechs are spread across so many force packs. Wish there was a pack with Fire Falcon, Black Lanner, Night Gyr, Turkina, and... dunno, Battle Cobra.
Falcon Force Pack™™™: Fire Falcon, Black Lanner, Night Gyr, Turkina, Summoner
I have been painting my new Catalyst 'Mechs the OD Green and yellow of the Falcon Sentinels and adding a 79 to them for my Cluster.
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I don't need another Summoner, though a variant model would be nice.
But they could finally canonize the Hellhound OmniMech from MechWarrior IV Mercs... that would fill out a Falcon ForcePack superbly.
Anyway, other stuff. The Falcon Guards are part of the Gamma Galaxy right? Wondering if they use Gamma Galaxy's paint scheme, which is appropriate camo with jade trim? Wondering because Aidan's Timberwolf in BT Legends is in camo but lacks any trim color. Unless the trim is kind of parade-scheme thing, and dropped in the field?
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For those interested in a much less nutzo jade falcon clan the newest novel which centers on the ( very) few falcon post ilclan trial survivors is very enjoyable so far
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Falcon Force Pack™™™: Fire Falcon, Black Lanner, Night Gyr, Turkina, Summoner
I have been painting my new Catalyst 'Mechs the OD Green and yellow of the Falcon Sentinels and adding a 79 to them for my Cluster.
If there is going to be a new Falcon star pack, it is going to have to include a Jade Phoenix, Hierofalcon, and Ion Sparrow for sure. There's plenty of options to include after those mechs. Put a Jade Hawk and a Gyrfalcon for an all winged theme...
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If there is going to be a new Falcon star pack, it is going to have to include a Jade Phoenix, Hierofalcon, and Ion Sparrow for sure. There's plenty of options to include after those mechs. Put a Jade Hawk and a Gyrfalcon for an all winged theme...
That's what I plan on doing, have not decided on making Jiyi's Command Trinary, or the entire 1st Falcon Cluster, question, so its confirmed that the above mechs are going to be made, quiaff ?
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That's what I plan on doing, have not decided on making Jiyi's Command Trinary, or the entire 1st Falcon Cluster, question, so its confirmed that the above mechs are going to be made, quiaff ?
Hierofalcon is already out from IWM, along with the Jade Hawk and Gyrfalcon (which has 2 sculpts). And, iirc and read through the lines correctly, the Ion Sparrow or the Jade Phoenix are next in line.
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Hierofalcon is already out from IWM, along with the Jade Hawk and Gyrfalcon (which has 2 sculpts). And, iirc and read through the lines correctly, the Ion Sparrow or the Jade Phoenix are next in line.
nice, thanks
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I've been hoping that the Jade Pheonix gets to be a premium mini soon but not hopeful for that. Once the IWM, mini is out, I'd like to see a fan funded A variant too.
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If it does get a premium mini I'd love the CGL store to charge less than 100$ to send a mini to europe.....
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Similar issues here in Australia. Best approaches are to save up to hit the free international shipping limit ($250USD IIRC), or group purchase with friends to hit the free shipping limit. I've done both.
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Similar issues here in Australia. Best approaches are to save up to hit the free international shipping limit ($250USD IIRC), or group purchase with friends to hit the free shipping limit. I've done both.
G'day mate (Aussie here too) 8)
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Ok I read a question of survival and liked it, so I started on the other Nu-falcons book, no substitute for victory. And I am really struggling to like it. I really do not like how this author writes. I find his characters moronic and his style pedantic and lacking engagement.
Is it important from a background POV or for the information that will be leaked by the end of the book or I can just skip it?
Thank you.
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Is there any information about Nekane Hazen outside of Natural Selection?
I just found OTP Red Corsair!!! >:D :thumbsup:
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Ok I read a question of survival and liked it, so I started on the other Nu-falcons book, no substitute for victory. And I am really struggling to like it. I really do not like how this author writes. I find his characters moronic and his style pedantic and lacking engagement.
Is it important from a background POV or for the information that will be leaked by the end of the book or I can just skip it?
Thank you.
It gives a great overview of the situation Jiyu's falcons are in and gives a peek at the vote that will (presumably) rip the Bears apart in Dominion Divided.
I -love- the book, but I also know not everyone likes the same stuff (personally I -LOATHE- the "Three body problem" which everyone else seems to loooove) so, yah, you can give it a pass instead of hate-reading it. :-)
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Three body ?
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Three body ?
Scifi book, rare Chinese one be translated to English.
Haven't read it myself.
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I mean what does he mean by "Three Body Problem"?
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Yes, that's the name of the book.
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No. I might not have been clear.
Read a question of survival and liked it.
It prompted me to read no substitute for victory (from Pardoe) as it is also a new falcon book
I am not liking no substitute for victory. Is it worth ut to continue with it because it contains important snipets of info or not?
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It doesn't contain anything of huge significance, IIRC.
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Well, I would agree but there is the last chapter with Col Baxter which could mean a lot ( or nothing at all tbh)
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No. I might not have been clear.
Read a question of survival and liked it.
It prompted me to read no substitute for victory (from Pardoe) as it is also a new falcon book
I am not liking no substitute for victory. Is it worth ut to continue with it because it contains important snipets of info or not?
Thought it was an opening for what was happening in the Lyran/Falcon contested border but it was not. We do get hints of the Knights of St. Cameron returning but no confirmation.
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No. I might not have been clear.
Read a question of survival and liked it.
It prompted me to read no substitute for victory (from Pardoe) as it is also a new falcon book
I am not liking no substitute for victory. Is it worth ut to continue with it because it contains important snipets of info or not?
not really it's your typical BLP "small unit action" book.
Guy leads small unit defending home word, home world gets invaded. guy leads defence in gurellia campaign against evil occupier, occupier commits war crimes to "force a confrontation" protag gets reinforced at last minute yay protag.
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Ok. Hard pass then. Thanks. I eilk skip to the last chapter to see what is that about.
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No. I might not have been clear.
Read a question of survival and liked it.
It prompted me to read no substitute for victory (from Pardoe) as it is also a new falcon book
I am not liking no substitute for victory. Is it worth ut to continue with it because it contains important snipets of info or not?
Oh, TOTALLY misread that.
yeah, that one doesn't really tie into the larger universe, again, no need to hate-read. :-)
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I really enjoyed No Substitute for Victory but to each their own, I guess.
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All Jade Falcon novels are to be enjoyed, quiaff ! ;D
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Even Freebirth? ;D
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Even Freebirth? ;D
If they are secretly trueborn or offspring of trueborn sure. ::)
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I meant the novel, Freebirth. About Horse, and widely considered to be one of the worst Battletech novels of all time.
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I meant the novel, Freebirth. About Horse, and widely considered to be one of the worst Battletech novels of all time.
Aff! Even Freebirth(I am admittedly a sucker for Thurston's work as the Jade Falcon trilogy was my intro to the novels). It did exactly what it needed to in setting the stage for what life was like on Huntress before Operation Serpent came down on them, and it had LAMs!
Now that people can come and go from a clan prison without ever being noticed...
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All Jade Falcon novels are to be enjoyed, quiaff ! ;D
Neg.
This one was a chore. And badly edited to boot, eith bad character rpresentations (especially for females) a total lack of understanding on how corprations AND civilian governments work (making the baroness a caricature of a caricature), patronizing and lacking engagement with the protagonists on either side except at concrete points in the story.
I decided to skim fast reading diagonally until the end. It was not good but I can say I finished it. Will not repeat the experience ever. I deleted it from my kindle. Really I hope pardoe does not get any other major BT books to write adter the wolfie book and confirming my previous opinion with this one.
The last chapter with the Nu-falcons was the best one of the book.
How came lyrans are not extinct yet?
Xavi
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Neg.
This one was a chore. And badly edited to boot, eith bad character rpresentations (especially for females) a total lack of understanding on how corprations AND civilian governments work (making the baroness a caricature of a caricature), patronizing and lacking engagement with the protagonists on either side except at concrete points in the story.
I decided to skim fast reading diagonally until the end. It was not good but I can say I finished it. Will not repeat the experience ever. I deleted it from my kindle. Really I hope pardoe does not get any other major BT books to write adter the wolfie book and confirming my previous opinion with this one.
Guess you haven't heard, then. Catalyst chose to part ways with Pardoe over some stuff that happened last month.
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/general-discussion/statement-regarding-blaine-lee-pardoe/
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I know this is a bit out of left field, but what do we know about the Jade Falcon affiliated force that is part of the upcoming Alpha Strike box set? Are they a subset? Part of the Black Watch? I'm assuming it is set in the 3151-52 timeframe, but could be wrong because I didn't attend GenCon.
What do we know about these Falcons? I have some Clan Mechs left over from the first KS that I could put into a Jade Falcon trinary.... Just wondering what we're looking at here.
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I know this is a bit out of left field, but what do we know about the Jade Falcon affiliated force that is part of the upcoming Alpha Strike box set? Are they a subset? Part of the Black Watch? I'm assuming it is set in the 3151-52 timeframe, but could be wrong because I didn't attend GenCon.
What do we know about these Falcons? I have some Clan Mechs left over from the first KS that I could put into a Jade Falcon trinary.... Just wondering what we're looking at here.
They are Falcons from Terra, timeframe is 3151 or 3152. Aand that's it. There's a novella inside the box that probably tells more.
As it is, i don't recall seeing any more details about the units in AS box. Some 200 were sold at GenCon, so someone may have posted all the details online somewhere.
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They are Falcons from Terra, timeframe is 3151 or 3152. Aand that's it. There's a novella inside the box that probably tells more.
As it is, i don't recall seeing any more details about the units in AS box. Some 200 were sold at GenCon, so someone may have posted all the details online somewhere.
Gotcha, so we need someone who has read the novella to give us the lowdown as to the factions. Side note: I think it's weird they are fighting Capellans, because the Wraith is very Free Worlds League to me.
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MODERATOR NOTICE
Folks, an extended conversation about whether a BattleMech is more Marik or Liao is not very germane to the Jade Falcon thread and has been separated out to permit proper discussion of everyone's favorite little green birds to continue.
We're not going to be discussing the Pardoe situation in here, either. Stay on topic, please.
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I guess I'm hoping this Falcon faction is a permanent formation, so I can paint up a trinary. Guess we'll find out in the fiction or upcoming stories.
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I guess I'm hoping this Falcon faction is a permanent formation, so I can paint up a trinary. Guess we'll find out in the fiction or upcoming stories.
I think there will be at least two major Falcon factions. The Black Watch Falcons, the survivors of Terra and the new Jade Falcon Clan risen from the ground.
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Three Falcon factions, if you count the Alyina Mercantile League.
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I guess I'm hoping this Falcon faction is a permanent formation, so I can paint up a trinary. Guess we'll find out in the fiction or upcoming stories.
Define “permanent” although the Ghost Bears absorbed them over 25 years ago in real life there are still Rasalhauge holdouts. So what if your trinary colours are considered no longer viable by some people. The only ones who should care is you. These are your mechs and you should do what feels right. Anyone who has a problem call a trial of “my mech, my call” and have a blast.
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I guess I'm hoping this Falcon faction is a permanent formation, so I can paint up a trinary. Guess we'll find out in the fiction or upcoming stories.
Delta Galaxy and the CJF remnants by Jiyi are nominally the same colors, and it’s what I am doing to future proof the faction
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Did most of the falcon fleet survive the ilclan trial and if so where are the warships now?
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Did most of the falcon fleet survive the ilclan trial and if so where are the warships now?
Their warships were heavily damaged or even destroyed when the RAF tried to stop them from bombarding Terra. I think one Warship came out intact while the rest was either destroyed or crippled though at the expense of the entire remaining RAf fleet (Cahpter Deathride of the RAF fleet in the IlClan sourcebook). Not sure what the wolves did with what remained probably scutteld as I m not sure if the titan Yards are able tio handle so many Warships at the moment
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There is a Nightlord being built at Butler.
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Can you confirm beyond any possible doubt that it's a Nightlord-class? Last I heard it was named after a previous Nightlord, but that's not a confirmation of class.
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If the Falcons really build such a large Warship there and the Lyrans find out Trilian should send the Ygdrassil with it's full fleet of support ships to bomb that Falcon ship to bits. Just to make sure the Falcons never get a Warship ever again
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Did most of the falcon fleet survive the ilclan trial and if so where are the warships now?
3 Wolf warships and 1 Falcon warship left in fighting shape.
1 Wolf warship dry docked due to damage
I think 4 Falcon warships technically operational but in various states of shot to pieces.
I want to say 2 Wolf and 1 Falcon warship outright destroyed.
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I am just coming in there to say, that I get a little twinge of joy everything I read the title of this thread.
Thank you!
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I am just coming in there to say, that I get a little twinge of joy everything I read the title of this thread.
Thank you!
Words were mine. Worktroll applied them. You’re welcome.
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I don't need another Summoner, though a variant model would be nice.
I do but I have not bought that many Clan Command Star Force Packs. Now if we are talking about IWM minis then I have about a Trinary's worth of Summoners. Catalyst made Summoner-D would be cool and different. Or the B with all the missile pods.
If there is going to be a new Falcon star pack, it is going to have to include a Jade Phoenix, Hierofalcon, and Ion Sparrow for sure. There's plenty of options to include after those mechs. Put a Jade Hawk and a Gyrfalcon for an all winged theme...
After reading below about the new Alpha Strike Boxset seeming to focus on the ilClan Era this makes sense, especially from a marketing standpoint. I would replaces the Jade Hawk with the Shrike, but that is just me. I really, really want an Ion Sparrow in metal or plastic. I fought a Trial with a mixed Star of Ion Sparrows (used Fire Falcons as proxies) and Elementals that was fun until the opponent effectively nullified my mobility and blasted my Sparrows.
I am just coming in there to say, that I get a little twinge of joy everything I read the title of this thread.
Thank you!
Agreed. I chuckle every single time. Thank you Natasha Kerensky and Worktroll for bringing so much joy to this old falcons heart.
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A new totem mech — iJJs, Partial Wing, and TSM-enhanced Talons — for all the isorla Falcon bondsmen on Terra:
SAKER (OSPREY IIC) —> https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/saker-osprey-iic/ (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/saker-osprey-iic/)
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I associate Saker less with the bird than the type of cannon, to be honest.
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I associate Saker less with the bird than the type of cannon, to be honest.
The cannon is named after the falcon.
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A new totem mech — iJJs, Partial Wing, and TSM-enhanced Talons — for all the isorla Falcon bondsmen on Terra:
SAKER (OSPREY IIC) —> https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/saker-osprey-iic/ (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/saker-osprey-iic/)
Thanks Tash :thumbsup:
Do we have a pic and or MUL, quiaff (please) 8)
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Do we have a pic and or MUL, quiaff (please) 8)
It's a fan-made Mech, it won't be on the MUL at all.
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Did most of the falcon fleet survive the ilclan trial and if so where are the warships now?
The CJF Jade Tornado (fredasa class) is the only remaining functional Falcon ship. Another 5 of their remaining six should be repairable given enough time. IlClan did not cover their disposition. We likely won’t know until ilKhan’s Eyes Only
Wolves have three of their original 6 ready to fight. Two were lost. One is dry docked.
Alaric may have laid claim to the Falcon warships too. He seems to think everything is his.
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The CJF Jade Tornado (fredasa class) is the only remaining functional Falcon ship. Another 5 of their remaining six should be repairable given enough time. IlClan did not cover their disposition. We likely won’t know until ilKhan’s Eyes Only
Wolves have three of their original 6 ready to fight. Two were lost. One is dry docked.
Alaric may have laid claim to the Falcon warships too. He seems to think everything is his.
I think technically the only ship the Falcons have is a merchant ship with Jenji :thumbsup:
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Thanks Tash :thumbsup:
Do we have a pic and or MUL, quiaff (please) 8)
Added pix in the design thread. It’s based on the canon Osprey and is almost WSIWYG, so the canon art matches or nearly so. But as a non-canon design, it won’t appear in the MUL.
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So is it an official mech ?
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It is not. And now that it's been posted in Fan Designs, it never can be.
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So is it an official mech ?
No. Anything on the fan boards is just that, fan stuff — not canon or official designs. You can use it in your games. The only limitation on use of non-canon designs is at formal tournament games.
I wrote a few things for the BT line like two developers ago but I’m not a current writer and work on canon TRO/RecGuide designs is really a reward handed out to the current BT writing/development team.
It is not. And now that it's been posted in Fan Designs, it never can be.
Non-canon stuff like the Regent/MechPope gets canonized. There’s nothing that would prevent the current BT developer from asking to use one of my designs and me from signing a formal letter granting him legal permission. I gladly signed such a letter years ago when they forgot to pay me for some bit of writing. Any such restriction is self-imposed, not set in law somewhere.
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It is not. And now that it's been posted in Fan Designs, it never can be.
this is why I never publish stuff in that channel anymore. I just sort of have ideas, cross my fingers and hope similer ideas pop up.
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Slight side note:
Not really worth starting up a new thread, just a quick Clan Scientist Caste question:
Artificial Wombs / Vats / Iron Wombs, the fluid which the future Clanners are submerged in as they grow, I take it that it would be a warm mixture of embryonic super fluids, quiaff?
Is there any cannon going into specifics, or is it left to be implied based on modern day facts
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Hopefully, there are no specifics. That sounds PERFECT for some so-called fan to crow to the skies that they've caught the writers in a gotcha and therefore the whole system doesn't work.
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Hopefully, there are no specifics. That sounds PERFECT for some so-called fan to crow to the skies that they've caught the writers in a gotcha and therefore the whole system doesn't work.
??? You mean this topic is taboo ? If so I will delete
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It's not taboo for fans, go ahead. If CGL is smart, it will absolutely be forever taboo for the writers.
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The only hard details we have about Iron Womb technology is in the Warriors of Kerensky sourcebook, and it only covers the broad strokes. The OG Jade Falcon Sourcebook also has a creepy-but-cute picture of a few fetuses in their tanks.
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This falls very squarely into the "it doesn't matter" hole and any explanation on the subject is some combination of irrelevant, counterproductive, or both. There is no benefit to be gleaned from defining or describing it, and there is much downside.
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This falls very squarely into the "it doesn't matter" hole and any explanation on the subject is some combination of irrelevant, counterproductive, or both. There is no benefit to be gleaned from defining or describing it, and there is much downside.
THIS. Oh God, all of THIS. :-)
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So just having read Tamar Rising, I'm liking the Alyina Merchant League as a home for my mercenaries. What're your thoughts on the microstate, and will they survive the Hells Horses?
Also, for anyone who has the RecGuides, what's being produced on Alyina and Twycross? I already have the Ion Sparrow and Hierophant listed as being taken from Factory Zone 4 on Alyina, and the Sea Foxes are producing the Thresher II, Kite, and Cardinal.
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So just having read Tamar Rising, I'm liking the Alyina Merchant League as a home for my mercenaries. What're your thoughts on the microstate, and will they survive the Hells Horses?
I feel like the Horses are going to bet bogged down near Terra and the LA won't be able to do anything for a while, so those Microstates are going to endure for at least a little bit.
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The New Chaos March states are interesting (not so much Jiyi's Falcons, IMO), but I personally can't get too invested in them knowing they're living on borrowed time. It took a massive dose of plot stupidity for the Horses not to simply trample them beneath their hooves.
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I'd like to see the microstates survive, myself; there's plenty of flavor in them and some interesting ideas. Clan capitalists is a phrase I never thought I'd say...
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From the sounds of things, they're going to stay around for at least a little while.
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Also, for anyone who has the RecGuides, what's being produced on Alyina and Twycross? I already have the Ion Sparrow and Hierophant listed as being taken from Factory Zone 4 on Alyina, and the Sea Foxes are producing the Thresher II, Kite, and Cardinal.
On Alyina, CJF Factory Zone 4 makes the Ion Sparrow, Hierofalcon (although we need a Hierophant, too), Jade Phoenix, and Jupiter. Arguably the biggest former Falcon prize in the Hinterlands.
On Twycross, Trellshire Heavy Industries/CSF makes the Crimson Hawk, Tiburon, Rifleman IIC, Thresher II, Warhammer IIC, several Phoenix Hawk IIC variants, Elemental BA, Clan Battle Armor (incl Rabid and Volk variants), Kite, Cardinal, and Griffin IIC and Shadow Hawk IIC refits. They may also still make Spheroid Riflemen, Battlemasters, and Stalkers.
Also on Twycross, DS (now SF?) Aero Assembly Site Rho/CSF makes the Ammon fighter, Hyspades (and Hyspades 3) fighter, and Broadsword dropship.
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Sudeten has by far the biggest manufacturing base in the former Falcon OZ. Something like eighteen different active 'Mech lines, including at least half a dozen Omnis like the Black Lanner, Cougar, Grand Summoner, and Turkina, plus multiple conventional units, at least one aerospace fighter, and I want to say there's a dropship yard in orbit.
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So the AML is is pretty good shape as far as its manufacturing capability is going. Good to know. What's the thoughts on their new society they're trying to bring about, out of curiosity - not that we have a lot of info about it yet.
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On Alyina, CJF Factory Zone 4 makes the Ion Sparrow, Hierofalcon (although we need a Hierophant, too), Jade Phoenix, and Jupiter. Arguably the biggest former Falcon prize in the Hinterlands.
On Twycross, Trellshire Heavy Industries/CSF makes the Crimson Hawk, Tiburon, Rifleman IIC, Thresher II, Warhammer IIC, several Phoenix Hawk IIC variants, Elemental BA, Clan Battle Armor (incl Rabid and Volk variants), Kite, Cardinal, and Griffin IIC and Shadow Hawk IIC refits. They may also still make Spheroid Riflemen, Battlemasters, and Stalkers.
Also on Twycross, DS (now SF?) Aero Assembly Site Rho/CSF makes the Ammon fighter, Hyspades (and Hyspades 3) fighter, and Broadsword dropship.
And let's not forget Twycross is also the source of Harjel a very important material for the Clans.
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So the AML is is pretty good shape as far as its manufacturing capability is going. Good to know. What's the thoughts on their new society they're trying to bring about, out of curiosity - not that we have a lot of info about it yet.
They'd better start making heavily-armed friends if they want to survive.
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They'd better start making heavily-armed friends if they want to survive.
The Malthus Confederation - we'll be yer buddies, for a price.
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I'm looking forward to stories of these new states playing their larger neighbors against each other in order to survive.
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So the AML is is pretty good shape as far as its manufacturing capability is going. Good to know. What's the thoughts on their new society they're trying to bring about, out of curiosity - not that we have a lot of info about it yet.
To me, the AML is the most interesting Hinterlands state/military because it’s this weird agglomeration of Clan merchant leadership (Falcon and Fox), Spheroid mercs, and some Clan/Spheroid militia. Maybe all they’re going to do is survive and make a profit selling weapons to the other Hinterlands factions, which would be boring. But setting that scenario aside, I don’t really know where the multi-faceted AML faction goes. Do the people of the AML continue living mostly Clan lives, revert to their Spheroid roots, or something else? Does the AML military continue to be dominated by mercs, do they start their own trueborn program, or do they raise a sizable freeborn military (or all the above)? Are these Falcon merchants expansionist or are they content with their micro-state? Do the Fox merchants continue to play nice or do they call in an Aimag and take over the AML? It’s these uncertainties that make the AML the most interesting Hinterlands state, IMO.
Although I’m sure there will be surprises with the other Hinterlands micro-states, I kind of know (or think I know) what to expect from them. Vesper Marches is rogue Lyran nobility, the Tamar Pact is rogue Lyran military, the Falcon Remnants are non-Mongol Falcons, the Malthus Confederation is organized crime, and the Liberty Coalition is the ARDC. None of them seem to have the same uncertainties and potential to create something genuinely new as the AML. With the title “Tamar Rising”, I suppose the Tamar Pact will be the ascendant power and the AML will play a secondary role or be absorbed. (They’ve already allied with the Pact once or twice.) But I’d like to think the AML will be around long enough to produce a genuinely novel fusion of Clan and Spheroid society, maybe one that becomes the model for the Pact.
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With the title “Tamar Rising”, I suppose the Tamar Pact will be the ascendant power and the AML will play a secondary role or be absorbed.
I think the title only applies to the events in the book itself, not as a prediction of the future of anything past the events in the book.
They could continue to rise, but I don't think the title of the book is meant to be applied to anything beyond the book itself.
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To me the current Lyran Commonwealth looks a bit like the old German Alliance before the rise of the 2nd empire: several nation states with one or two big guys leading. Though we don't have a federation as it was in the 19th century there might be a new reunification coming with an enemy used as a stepping stone. Maybe the Falcons because "Falcons ravaged our lands. Revenge it is!" or perhaps more against the Horses because "They invented the Mongols!"
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or perhaps more against the Horses because "They invented the Mongols!"
The Mongol Doctrine's terror tactics aspects, as utilized against the Commonwealth, was squarely a Jade Falcon invention. Though who knows if the Lyrans will bother to make the distinction. We've certainly seen folks go to war over less in this setting (the Horses themselves even did it because they misunderstood what Malvina was doing and chose to fight her over it).
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The Mongol Doctrine's terror tactics aspects, as utilized against the Commonwealth, was squarely a Jade Falcon invention. Though who knows if the Lyrans will bother to make the distinction. We've certainly seen folks go to war over less in this setting (the Horses themselves even did it because they misunderstood what Malvina was doing and chose to fight her over it).
Well you need an enemy to unite against. might as well against the inventor of a thing. And I had a crazy thought: maybe Trillian will take a page from the Free Worlds playbook and offer the Clan protostates to become part of the Commonwealth as a "United we stand against the threat of [insert enemy here]" Of course after Melissa's mishandling of the Wolves that might be the worst idea Trillian could make but the Leaguers took back the "nuke first ask questions later" Regulans into their fold so who knows
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In my opinion it is a way of destroying the caste system without destroying (or declawing) the Clans. There is even hints with the Hells Horses and black market (with as little Malthus influence as possible). In the end I believe the Tamar Pact will be united once again with a lot of Clan flare but most factions will be absorbed with their identity intact. And may all factions unite against any neo-mongols (per the Falcon doctrine) or Malvina worshippers.
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Again, I can see the major threat are the Horses. Can Jiyi put enough spin on, that will create a loose alliance to defend the new hinterlands against the said "neo mongol" ways.
While also showcasing the new Jade Dominion is nothing like the Mongols of past ? (I do agree and personally think that "different" social evolutions (based on Ras Dom or Scorps: more the latter) would be interesting to see in both the AML and the Jade Dominion (shown by Jiyi in the novels, room to grow). Especially the theory about a new Trueborn programme for AML. If the Foxes come for the AML, with good will and trading will Jiyi offer to help them? (I mean Jiyi has to play friendly, as he needs help against the Horses)
Can he rally up enough smear campaign against them ?, quoting "the Horses are Dezegra, they are covertly in league with the Malthus Confederation, they have lost their honor, mongolism will come"
I sync with alot of the points you said too Tash, and CJC070 about all in the Tamar Pact, but identities intact, mixture, and Scorpion/Spheroid mix society. (would make good fiction)
But again as a loyal Jade Falcon (rare) Warden/Jesse/Intergrationist, I would always prefer to see "Clan Jade Falcon" and or "Jade Dominion" on the map :thumbsup:
But I guess, if it does turn out like Tamar Pact united theory, (like Scorpion Empire) I can get behind that too, I am just a sucker for Falcon naming on maps 8)
But again, new SLDF is gonna be a mish mash too
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Can he rally up enough smear campaign against them ?, quoting "the Horses are Dezegra, they are covertly in league with the Malthus Confederation, they have lost their honor, mongolism will come"
Hard to make the case that the Horses are in league with the Confederation, not after what they did to the Khan’s favorite Hell’s Horse mare. (Operation Stampede was threatening worlds that had paid the Confederation for protection, and that was part tf the Malthus campaign to make the Horses back off. The Horses now want the Confederation Annihilated.)
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So, hypothetical here at the moment, needing more development
IF, Jiyi does do the "RasDom" system, or something similar, what would it look like for the Falcons ? As the Bears, Scorpions and Ravens all have their own take on it
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That's pretty hard to say. Jiyi would probably be ultimately in charge but with the lower castes having parliamentary representation, maybe?
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There's very little point in trying to do Clan/not-Clan political division in the Falcon OZ. Warrior/Lower Caste, maybe, but that'd be an interesting new take on it compared to the RasDom or RA.
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Also, given that there's already an example of "what if the Clan civilians were in charge?" right next door, it seems like it would be more plausible that Jiyi's Falcons will focus on something like a return the the older, nobler days of the Clan prior to Hazen's insanity. Maybe with more respect for the lower castes, but still something trying to hold to Clan ideals than create another hybrid system. And probably considerably more Warden in outlook.
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Has Jiyi ever been described as a Warden? I suspect he might be more accurately described as a 'Realist Crusader.' He knows he doesn't have the strength to do much conquering, but that doesn't mean it's not on his eventual to-do list.
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Has Jiyi ever been described as a Warden? I suspect he might be more accurately described as a 'Realist Crusader.' He knows he doesn't have the strength to do much conquering, but that doesn't mean it's not on his eventual to-do list.
Jiyi's politics seem to defy conventional definition. He was sideboarded by Malvina so it seems fair to characterize as "Not Mongol" specifically and he definitely has some small-l liberal ideas about Clan society.
Jury is still out whether it's genuine personal belief in a more egalitarian Clan society or if he's the flip-side of Malvina's brand of Pure Clan Ideas (meaning Malvina was the ultimate expression of victory resulting in reality; Jiyi's response is not far off from the reverse of "failure on an existential level means to succeed everything must change" but that could still be coincidence).
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Does the Warden-Crusader divide even matter anymore? The goal of the Crusaders is done. The Wolves became IlClan and reestablished the Star League. And the last Clan group to be truly Warden, the Wolves-in-Exile, betrayed their purpose an joined it. The Bears, Ravens, and Foxes have all moved beyond being just Clans, and it seems the remaining Jade Falcons are doing the same. I guess the Hells Horses still care for now, but identifying Clan characters based on the Warden-Crusader divide in 3151 seems like dividing the House Leaders based on which Terran Alliance political party they would be part of.
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Has Jiyi ever been described as a Warden? I suspect he might be more accurately described as a 'Realist Crusader.' He knows he doesn't have the strength to do much conquering, but that doesn't mean it's not on his eventual to-do list.
Insomuch as the Warden-vs-Crusader divide even still exists in the 32nd Century Clans, I don't think that he's really a believer in the Warden cause so much as he's smart enough to realize that promoting a Warden-ish outlook among the Falcons for the next few years is going to be necessary for the Clan's survival. He needs to present a friendlier image for his faction in order to avoid having a bunch of people with more guns than he's got decide that he needs to be squashed.
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Does the Warden-Crusader divide even matter anymore? The goal of the Crusaders is done. The Wolves became IlClan and reestablished the Star League. And the last Clan group to be truly Warden, the Wolves-in-Exile, betrayed their purpose an joined it. The Bears, Ravens, and Foxes have all moved beyond being just Clans, and it seems the remaining Jade Falcons are doing the same. I guess the Hells Horses still care for now, but identifying Clan characters based on the Warden-Crusader divide in 3151 seems like dividing the House Leaders based on which Terran Alliance political party they would be part of.
Due to the Clan nature (and Battletech in general) there will always be division. Until we see new “pro-iClan and anti-iClan factions there will still be the Wardens and the Crusaders. Yes the Hells Horses have their own Mongol doctrine but we still don’t know if the Clans will follow Alaric fully or pay them lip service.
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I suspect the new divide will be between "We have Terra and have formed declared a new League, let's call it good" and "Everybody under one banner or nobody, it's Reunification War II time, let's gooooo!!!", plus the various shades between those two.
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Alaric looks to be demanding complete fealty/wanting of being in the ilClan. See: Bears
It looks (to me) like the clan divide will be Alaric and anyone foolish enough to follow him against anyone who doesn’t agree to follow him absolutely.
I also don’t see any IS faction joining him. But I could easily be wrong
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Alaric looks to be demanding complete fealty/wanting of being in the ilClan. See: Bears
It looks (to me) like the clan divide will be Alaric and anyone foolish enough to follow him against anyone who doesn’t agree to follow him absolutely.
I also don’t see any IS faction joining him. But I could easily be wrong
I think the most issues will be the Bears and Foxes. The Bears have fully integrated with Rasalhague which will cause trouble as I don't see their IS population being happy bending the knee to anyone (they know how bad it was under Combine rule). And part of the Foxes are part of a Great House that is actively waging war against the Wolves. I am not sure they really want to fight against other Foxes or fight within their new home
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The Foxes want to be in the position of selling guns to both sides.
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I've been catching up on some of the plot developments since ilClan, and I just gotta say, I LOVE the balkanization of the former JF Occupation Zone. And I am genuinely curious to see where it goes, with both the Alyina Mercantile League and the Falcon Remnants. I feel like there's some fun storytelling possibilities there.
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I've been catching up on some of the plot developments since ilClan, and I just gotta say, I LOVE the balkanization of the former JF Occupation Zone. And I am genuinely curious to see where it goes, with both the Alyina Mercantile League and the Falcon Remnants. I feel like there's some fun storytelling possibilities there.
I am interested in seeing how the new "Jade Dominion" develops, Jiyi's style of leadership, as expressed in "A Question of Survival" and other fiction tid bits floating around.
Basically a much kinder Falcon and realist, some would dare say "Warden-ish". IF as the story develops, a "RasDom" system grows, but in unique Falcon Style, I would love to see that, and what it would look like. The doing away of the whole "Lower" Caste mentality, to be replaced by the wording and mentality of "Civilian" Castes, following the Scorpions lead, the "Garrison Caste", integrate EVERYONE (including native) into "Jiyi's New CJF".
Touched upon in "Falcon Rising" or "Freebirth", the Scientists had their "Labnames", the new Jade Dominion could award these special legacy names for each Caste, based upon the support divisions of the original SLDF / 800. Something more than what AML can offer ?. Elevate Jodine more, get her insight (as Falcons in 3067 had the best economy aside from was it Ghost Bear or Diamond Shark?)
Elections, or Trials (relevant type) of each caste to see who gets the top positions on Jiyi's War Council, somehow loop the populace in.
Jade Dominion, more than just an Occupation Zone, a nest, where Turkina looks after all 8)
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I think the most issues will be the Bears and Foxes. The Bears have fully integrated with Rasalhague which will cause trouble as I don't see their IS population being happy bending the knee to anyone (they know how bad it was under Combine rule). And part of the Foxes are part of a Great House that is actively waging war against the Wolves. I am not sure they really want to fight against other Foxes or fight within their new home
I think most IS populations wont give a rats ass about who is in charge of the people in charge of the people in charge... as long as their lives can go on in the same vein as its always been. There is lots of evidence (canon) to support this. So the Bears joining the new new Star League (ilClan remix) - wont be much of a difference to the average person on the street.
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I am interested in seeing how the new "Jade Dominion" develops, Jiyi's style of leadership, as expressed in "A Question of Survival" and other fiction tid bits floating around.
Basically a much kinder Falcon and realist, some would dare say "Warden-ish". IF as the story develops, a "RasDom" system grows, but in unique Falcon Style, I would love to see that, and what it would look like. The doing away of the whole "Lower" Caste mentality, to be replaced by the wording and mentality of "Civilian" Castes, following the Scorpions lead, the "Garrison Caste", integrate EVERYONE (including native) into "Jiyi's New CJF".
Touched upon in "Falcon Rising" or "Freebirth", the Scientists had their "Labnames", the new Jade Dominion could award these special legacy names for each Caste, based upon the support divisions of the original SLDF / 800. Something more than what AML can offer ?. Elevate Jodine more, get her insight (as Falcons in 3067 had the best economy aside from was it Ghost Bear or Diamond Shark?)
Elections, or Trials (relevant type) of each caste to see who gets the top positions on Jiyi's War Council, somehow loop the populace in.
Jade Dominion, more than just an Occupation Zone, a nest, where Turkina looks after all 8)
The question will be how long he can survive. There is a new Tamar Pact then we have the Horses and also the Commonwealth. Not exactly the best circumstances even if he can attract more people to his cause.
Who knows maybe he gets the honor of being the one Trilian has decided to make an example of. An example of being obliterated under the guns of the last Mjolnir battlecruiser because "Falcons are evil and deserve a taste of their own medicine". Though more realisticly Trilian might choose Brewer or perhaps even the distracted Wolves to gain more trust among her people then stomping on a small Falcon holdout
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The question will be how long he can survive. There is a new Tamar Pact then we have the Horses and also the Commonwealth. Not exactly the best circumstances even if he can attract more people to his cause.
Who knows maybe he gets the honor of being the one Trilian has decided to make an example of. An example of being obliterated under the guns of the last Mjolnir battlecruiser because "Falcons are evil and deserve a taste of their own medicine". Though more realisticly Trilian might choose Brewer or perhaps even the distracted Wolves to gain more trust among her people then stomping on a small Falcon holdout
Then again, a major development, mentioned in here, is perhaps by 3160 - 3170 or further down the track ? That the whole area unifies ("Tamar Rising") "Tamar Pact style" it was said in here), but each faction's identity is their own and is represented ?
But Brewer and to annoy Wolves, would be good for Trilian, more productive
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I think it’s interesting because it’s more or less plots-Clan syncretic in nature, and that’s neat and fun. It’s why I like the New mini-states (and the Scorpion Empire of that matter)
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I think it’s interesting because it’s more or less plots-Clan syncretic in nature, and that’s neat and fun. It’s why I like the New mini-states (and the Scorpion Empire of that matter)
I like how the Scorpions are going too
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O, my Clan.
We will rise anew.
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O, my Clan.
We will rise anew.
The Jade Dominion 8)
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Jade Hegemony.
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Jade Hegemony.
What is the difference ? Battletetch wise I mean
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It sounds less Ghost Bear.
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It sounds less Ghost Bear.
True, as now ilClan race is over, (story wise) for us to start developing ourselves as more than just a "Occupying Force"
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So little bit of info about the Terran Jade Falcons in the new Alpha Strike Boxed set.
first of all, if anyone is still laboring under the idea the northwind highlanders are absorbed into CJF this and the newest issue of Sharpnal should well kill it.
Secondly, the unit in which the jade falcon star on Caph is attached to is called the "Gold Talons" this is a brand new unit designation, suggesting (unsuprisingly) some post Terra Re-org.
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So little bit of info about the Terran Jade Falcons in the new Alpha Strike Boxed set.
first of all, if anyone is still laboring under the idea the northwind highlanders are absorbed into CJF this and the newest issue of Sharpnal should well kill it.
Secondly, the unit in which the jade falcon star on Caph is attached to is called the "Gold Talons" this is a brand new unit designation, suggesting (unsuprisingly) some post Terra Re-org.
Shrapnel 11, quiaff ?
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Shrapnel 11, quiaff ?
No, the novella from the Alpha strike boxed set.
Sharpnel 11 gives info on the northwind highlanders, but the only thing related to the Jade falcons mentioned in that entry is that Tara Campell has been repalced as Countess of Northwind, by her younger sister, Arabel Campell-Stewart
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No, the novella from the Alpha strike boxed set.
Sharpnel 11 gives info on the northwind highlanders, but the only thing related to the Jade falcons mentioned in that entry is that Tara Campell has been repalced as Countess of Northwind, by her younger sister, Arabel Campell-Stewart
Thanks is the novella out yet ?
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Thanks is the novella out yet ?
It’s in the AS box set. Just like the Beginner Box and AGoAC novellas. I think they are box only items
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Thanks is the novella out yet ?
it's in the alpha strike boxed set. Which is a GREAT deal, especially if you've not gotten into AS yet
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Has it ever been said where the Falcon version of the Jade Hawk is/was produced? Was curious if Jiyi has lost it ...
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Has it ever been said where the Falcon version of the Jade Hawk is/was produced? Was curious if Jiyi has lost it ...
Sarna says the factory's on Galatea (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Dynamic_Ordnance_and_Ammunition_Corp) but take that with a grain of salt.
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That'll be the Inner Sphere / Sea Fox version, I'd assume.
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Sarna says the factory's on Galatea (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Dynamic_Ordnance_and_Ammunition_Corp) but take that with a grain of salt.
That's what TRO 3145 says, but I agree with Bren that that's the Inner Sphere/Fox factory.
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Jade Hegemony.
I always thought 'Falcon Supremacy' had a proper ring to it. No sense in giving the enemy a chance at misidentifying us with some southern House or convention or Kerensky help us, pillar.
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I always thought 'Falcon Supremacy' had a proper ring to it. No sense in giving the enemy a chance at misidentifying us with some southern House or convention or Kerensky help us, pillar.
Nah, we nicer Falcons now 8)
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Ok, this was bought up in another thread and touched upon it (Also just finished reading "A Trial Most Acceptable", good read especially the tech in Protos, really advanced when you think of it
So was thinking, as ilClan era develops, and "IF" Jiyi in his current "predicament" does acquire a Protomech Sibko and or Warriors (from a Snow Raven "Harvest" Trial, or a future Hells Horses attack. (Do the Foxes have access to Protos too ?) Or develops his own programme (Remember Stephanie has lots of Aerospace assets too)
With all the advancements made in Prototech, both medical, and better (heavier) generations and tactics
What would a Jade Falcon Protomech force / unique Falcon tactics look like ?
(DFA, Melee, Mixed range ?)
I can imagine Rocs being a good backbone or shock troops, and also looking a good totem unit too. Upgraded Erinyes design, 2 ER M Lasers, ATMs ? Svartalfa with atleast a "proper" laser ? Hobgoblin ? Hippogriff ? A new Falcon design, using their Wing Design
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Not too crazy yet? Good. Can you still fly? Great. Here is an aerospace fighter.
Maybe not the answer you want to hear, but the Falcons need pilots more than glorified infantry.
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The resources it would take to support any kind of Protomech development (or manufacture, or maintenance for that matter) are prohibitive. One does not 'accidentally' acquire a Protomech sibko and expending resources to get one seems extremely unlikely.
Falcons don't do protos; that seems unlikely enough to change that this seems more like a fan-fiction prompt than speculation (this is not intended to be dismissive).
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Yeah, main thing was "hypothetical" if we were to field them, what would it look like ? IE: units, support, roles, tactics etc
Even though it probably will not happen
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and by the Dark Age Era they've (reluctantly) integrated combat vehicle forces into their Touman, which is pretty much what protomechs were developed as an alternative to in terms of battlefield roles. so they don't need protomechs much by the Ilclan era.
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Plus the Falcons specifically hate ProtoMechs, and Falcons are nothing if not stubborn.
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Plus the Falcons specifically hate ProtoMechs, and Falcons are nothing if not stubborn.
More like they were led to hate Protomechs. The Falcon protomech program was sabotaged by Etienne who then took it and developed it in secret even siphoning of from Falcon infrastructure. So who knows maybe some Falcon Khan might take another look at it. But if we think about the additional costs for the pilots (the interface that has to be operated into the pilots plus the drugs to keep them sane) they will most likely stick with what works
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More like they were led to hate Protomechs.
Same end result.
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To further expand on the Protos discussion, the Jaguars started up the Protos when they had plenty of warriors and not enough hardware for all their warriors. Protomechs were described as less resource-intensive than 'Mechs. Jiyi's Falcons are the inverse of that situation, plenty of hardware, not enough warriors. The path for Jiyi's Falcons is basically what we saw against the Bears, raiding to acquire sibkos and give the existing warriors more combat experience.
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It is definitely a new and interesting take on a Clan. They used to be one of the harshest Clans with respect to warrior training and retention. Now while the training is no doubt intensive, cadet survival is a much higher priority(to the point that ToPs are in simulators), they've explicitly said that if you make it to actually try a ToP you're guaranteed a spot in the Warrior Caste even if you fail, and Jiyi is just this side of putting up billboards advertising your chance to start a BloodHouse if you join up and prove good enough. And I think it'll be a LONG time before any warrior in his charge will be declared solahma.
I don't think we've ever seen a Clan go quite this far in this direction, and I'm very interested to see where it ends up.
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Now I'm picturing Jiyi going full on Crazy Appliance Salesman and offering a free washer & dryer for everyone who enlists in the next hour.
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Now I'm picturing Jiyi going full on Crazy Appliance Salesman and offering a free washer & dryer for everyone who enlists in the next hour.
Would get the numbers up, that we need, while our precious iron babies grow lol
Still interested in how Jiyi and Stephanie are gonna link up
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It is definitely a new and interesting take on a Clan. They used to be one of the harshest Clans with respect to warrior training and retention. Now while the training is no doubt intensive, cadet survival is a much higher priority(to the point that ToPs are in simulators), they've explicitly said that if you make it to actually try a ToP you're guaranteed a spot in the Warrior Caste even if you fail, and Jiyi is just this side of putting up billboards advertising your chance to start a BloodHouse if you join up and prove good enough. And I think it'll be a LONG time before any warrior in his charge will be declared solahma.
I don't think we've ever seen a Clan go quite this far in this direction, and I'm very interested to see where it ends up.
what is even more surprising is that, rule wise, are still better pilots than the average Hell Horse trueborn.
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what is even more surprising is that, rule wise, are still better pilots than the average Hell Horse trueborn.
Is that an artifact from one of the RPGs or something older or is this recent? Cause that’d a pretty rough fact in universe
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Is that an artifact from one of the RPGs or something older or is this recent? Cause that’d a pretty rough fact in universe
It's a rules-based extrapolation from Tamar Rising. Jiyi Chistu's 1st Falcon Sentinels are an Elite-rated unit. Though it's somewhat counterbalanced by the fact that, should the unit actually lose Jiyi, they would collapse as a cohesive unit as noted in the unit's description.
As a sidenote, I was surprised to read in Tamar Rising that Hammarr (the capital city of Sudeten) still exists after Malvina dropped a WarShip on top of it. It would be very uncharacteristic of Malvina to rebuild a city that she specifically destroyed to commemorate her triumph in the Rending. But TPTB also turned Malvina into a child abuser out of nowhere, so maybe that nugget just slipped past the fact checking team.
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It's a rules-based extrapolation from Tamar Rising. Jiyi Chistu's 1st Falcon Sentinels are an Elite-rated unit. Though it's somewhat counterbalanced by the fact that, should the unit actually lose Jiyi, they would collapse as a cohesive unit as noted in the unit's description.
As a sidenote, I was surprised to read in Tamar Rising that Hammarr (the capital city of Sudeten) still exists after Malvina dropped a WarShip on top of it. It would be very uncharacteristic of Malvina to rebuild a city that she specifically destroyed to commemorate her triumph in the Rending. But TPTB also turned Malvina into a child abuser out of nowhere, so maybe that nugget just slipped past the fact checking team.
Ok. So all forty-fifty surviving Falcons under Jiyi are a higher average than the entire Horses Touman. Yeah. I can see how we get there.
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Ok. So all forty-fifty surviving Falcons under Jiyi are a higher average than the entire Horses Touman. Yeah. I can see how we get there.
Oh, I think it's pretty dumb myself, especially given its hodgepodge composition of sibbies and solahma and poached Bear kids. I know how much you love plot armor, and Jiyi's Falcons were practically bronzed whole-cloth in it, which is the only real explanation for how they were able to so thoroughly defeat the Horses on Sudeten (that and the Horses' inexplicable taking of stupid pills). Part of me really wants Fulk Lassanerra to return to Sudeten with the Bucephalus and wipe out Hammarr from orbit.
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skill ratings in battletech sourcebooks have always been a little odd
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I think making them Elite was a huge stretch, but I think their Fanatical rating is spot-on, given the cult of personality surrounding Jiyi Chistu.
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It is definitely a new and interesting take on a Clan. They used to be one of the harshest Clans with respect to warrior training and retention. Now while the training is no doubt intensive, cadet survival is a much higher priority(to the point that ToPs are in simulators), they've explicitly said that if you make it to actually try a ToP you're guaranteed a spot in the Warrior Caste even if you fail, and Jiyi is just this side of putting up billboards advertising your chance to start a BloodHouse if you join up and prove good enough. And I think it'll be a LONG time before any warrior in his charge will be declared solahma.
I don't think we've ever seen a Clan go quite this far in this direction, and I'm very interested to see where it ends up.
And this is where I could see protos becoming a thing for the Falcons if they get ahold of some. "Failed? OK. Get in that protomech."
I'm not saying it's likely for the reasons other have pointed out, but I could see it happening under Jiyi. Though I don't see him starting a protomech Bloodline anytime soon.
But when a merchant (no matter how high) can slap a Jade Falcon Khan and suffer no punishment, I'm willing to say Jiyi is open to any idea as long as it works.
Spoilers above are a minor thing in A Question of Survival. I don't know if it's still under spoiler restrictions or not.
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I think making them Elite was a huge stretch, but I think their Fanatical rating is spot-on, given the cult of personality surrounding Jiyi Chistu.
This nails my feelings on his unit. Absolutely loyal, but it’s what he has left, not what he skimmed off the best of the best. Veteran would have made more sense.
And yeah, Sudeten was… I’ll call it a stretch. At least Horses did some house cleaning afterwards.
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This nails my feelings on his unit. Absolutely loyal, but it’s what he has left, not what he skimmed off the best of the best. Veteran would have made more sense.
Absolutely agreed. Veteran at best, Regular at worst, given this particular mix of troops. But Elite? That's a joke.
And yeah, Sudeten was… I’ll call it a stretch. At least Horses did some house cleaning afterwards.
Oh yes, and I'm quite excited to see what they do next. Part of me also thinks that we may see a bit of history repeating itself in the future with Peter Cobb and Khan Lassanerra in the vein of James Cobb and Malavai Fletcher, if Lassanerra ends up biting off more than he can chew.
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I never read the Nightlord impact as destroying the whole city -- just the city center / Clan Hall. Probably a Cray question, I'm out of my league.
But even if it did -- I assume the massive Olivetti factory there (which wasn't destroyed) needed the city repaired to support it.
15 years is plenty of time.
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I posted the question in Ask the Writers anyway. It was destroyed, and Malvina rebuilt it in her image. Good enough for me.
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It was destroyed, and Malvina rebuilt it in her image. Good enough for me.
Hopefully when the Horses attacked, the Orphan Grinder was one of the casualties.
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Hopefully when the Horses attacked, the Orphan Grinder was one of the casualties.
I have no idea what that is, but I suppose I'll co-sign it anyway. ;D
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But when a merchant (no matter how high) can slap a Jade Falcon Khan and suffer no punishment, I'm willing to say Jiyi is open to any idea as long as it works.
Spoilers above are a minor thing in A Question of Survival. I don't know if it's still under spoiler restrictions or not.
That spoiler was mentioned in Tamar Rising but it is good to see that novels and sourcebooks are communicating.
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Oh yes, and I'm quite excited to see what they do next. Part of me also thinks that we may see a bit of history repeating itself in the future with Peter Cobb and Khan Lassanerra in the vein of James Cobb and Malavai Fletcher, if Lassanerra ends up biting off more than he can chew.
Yeah, it’s a bit off topic, but a sudden ristar Peter Cobb elevated to Galaxy commander shortly after TR, followed by some political shenanigans putting him as saKhan, seems quite possible. Having a saKhan (and eventually Khan) known as being more of a deep thinker (by clan standards) could do the horses some plot good
EDIT: Here, topic relevance. Cob’s interactions with Jiyi can stabilize that front and allow Horses and Falcons to focus on dealing with Alaric’s inevitable war
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You think the last OZ Falcons will fight against Alaric? I pictured them joining the rebranded Falcons now that Malvina the Mad is dead. Then again being a "servant" of Clan Wolf might be a bit too much for proud Falcons. We get a new alliance between Falcons and Horses and this time they sharpen their fangs on the Wolves and not Ice Hellions (though most likely with a very different outcome)
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I'm guessing that Alaric will reject them out of hand as being useless dregs that aren't worthy of calling themselves true Clanners.
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You think the last OZ Falcons will fight against alaric? I pictured them joining the rebranded Falcons now that Malvina the Mad is dead. then again being a "servant" of clan Wolf might be a bit too much for proud Falcons. We get a new alliance between Falcons and Horses and this time they sharpen their fangs on the Wolves and not Ice Hellions (thpugh most likely with a very different outcome)
My understanding is that Alaric believes the Falcons are his. Even if still a clan, his to do with as he wills. Jiyi might be willing to work with Wolves, but I fairly sure Alaric will burn bridges by demanding they work for wolves. He’s not shown much bridge building (literal or relationships) skills.
Given the Map, I don’t think I see Alaric and Jiyi directly engaging in conflict. He’d need to go through the Tamar Pact, Horses, or Lyrans to get to Jiyi. Tamar will survive because I don’t see the devs destroying a new, generally liked faction immediately. Horses already have 3 or 4 galaxies in the way. Alaric can’t spare the sort of troops to beat that without the Bears going to war. Alaric could go through Lyrans, but isn’t Trillian sitting in a multi-RCT strategic reserve for exactly that sort of thing?
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I'm guessing that Alaric will reject them out of hand as being useless dregs that aren't worthy of calling themselves true Clanners.
That sounds like such an Alaric move.
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You think the last OZ Falcons will fight against alaric? I pictured them joining the rebranded Falcons now that Malvina the Mad is dead. then again being a "servant" of clan Wolf might be a bit too much for proud Falcons. We get a new alliance between Falcons and Horses and this time they sharpen their fangs on the Wolves and not Ice Hellions (thpugh most likely with a very different outcome)
"She" is known only as "The Not Named Hazen" :thumbsup:
New alliance? Have I missed something ? Last I heard new Horse Khan was out of our blood, only thing stopping him was the Bear's potential if he rotated troops away from their border?
In Tamar Rising Sourcebook, there is a part where Jiyi basically says, we will not be subservient of the Wolves, but then again, there is the "Colonel Baxter" hint at the end of "No Substitue for Victory" ? Does that happen before or after "A question of Survival" ? Or at the same time.
And yes there is always the possibility that such said above cooling with the Horses does occur, and Stephanie gets fed up with Alaric, her Falcons could do their own exodus to link up with Jiyi and further fortify the new Jade Dominion / Hegemony
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That sounds like such an Alaric move.
Trial of Refusal, then exodus to join Jiyi ?
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"She" is known only as "The Not Named Hazen" :thumbsup:
New alliance? Have I missed something ? Last I heard new Horse Khan was out of our blood, only thing stopping him was the Bear's potential if he rotated troops away from their border?
In Tamar Rising Sourcebook, there is a part where Jiyi basically says, we will not be subservient of the Wolves, but then again, there is the "Colonel Baxter" hint at the end of "No Substitue for Victory" ? Does that happen before or after "A question of Survival" ? Or at the same time.
And yes there is always the possibility that such said above cooling with the Horses does occur, and Stephanie gets fed up with Alaric, her Falcons could do their own exodus to link up with Jiyi and further fortify the new Jade Dominion / Hegemony
Ah I am soory. I should have written We MIGHt get a new alliance between the Jiyi Falcons and the horses. The same happened during th Jihad when the Horses rampaged through the Wolf OZ and then made a non aggression pact with the Falcons and also teamed up with them once the Hellions decided to play stupid games and win stupid prizes by trying to take Horse supplies
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Ah I am soory. I should have written We MIGHt get a new alliance between the Jiyi Falcons and the horses. The same happened during th Jihad when the Horses rampaged through the Wolf OZ and then made a non aggression pact with the Falcons and also teamed up with them once the Hellions decided to play stupid games and win stupid prizes by trying to take Horse supplies
I don’t think so. The Horses just got bamboozled by the Flacons, who bastardized their mongol doctrine. Plus they are just mad at the world.
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That's right, blame the Jade Flacons ... ;D
(https://gumtreeau-res.cloudinary.com/image/private/t_$_s-l400/gumtree/928e6f6a-6a9e-405a-a6e3-2fe937201ab8.jpg)
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Plus they are just mad at the world.
Yeah, they did not receive their "invite" ;D
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That's right, blame the Jade Flacons ... ;D
(https://gumtreeau-res.cloudinary.com/image/private/t_$_s-l400/gumtree/928e6f6a-6a9e-405a-a6e3-2fe937201ab8.jpg)
I don’t know what is going on here?
Yeah, they did not receive their "invite" ;D
To be fair to Alaric I would have invited the spirit cats before them.
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And on a more serious note, I agree with what Alaric did say to them
"Did Kerensky say that one would be "invited" to the Battle for Terra", no he said it was a test, pure military muscle and planning"
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And on a more serious note, I agree with what Alaric did say to them
"Did Kerensky say that one would be "invited" to the Battle for Terra", no he said it was a test, pure military muscle and planning"
I mean he did invite Falcons, after the Republic invited him. But yeah. They aren’t owed it.
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...after the Republic invited him....
shhh, that's classified (embarrassing) information ;D
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I mean he did invite Falcons, after the Republic invited him. But yeah. They aren’t owed it.
As it is I might have even been sympathetic to the horses if they had made some sort of effort to push to Terra... but let's be honest, they didn't.
From a crusader prespective all the horses did was stab the clans that where actively trying to get to terra in their rear lines to grab territory another clan had already won in the inner sphere.
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I don’t know what is going on here?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flacon
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Ah lol.
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I mean he did invite Falcons, after the Republic invited him. But yeah. They aren’t owed it.
He only invited the Falcons to soften up the RAF. He probably thought that the Horses aren't worth to be used as cannonfodder.
Though imagine how the Wolves are dealing with the situation now. I bet Tucker is in hiding doing the Annonymus style guerilla hijacking of the nets blasting every embarrasing fact about the Clans. In essence an advanced Twitter troll
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what else is tucker going to do now that he can't follow stone around asking him what the ****** his damage is
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He only invited the Falcons to soften up the RAF. He probably thought that the Horses aren't worth to be used as cannonfodder.
Though imagine how the Wolves are dealing with the situation now. I bet Tucker is in hiding doing the Annonymus style guerilla hijacking of the nets blasting every embarrasing fact about the Clans. In essence an advanced Twitter troll
I know why he did it. In Clan terms it’s still ‘sus af’ as the sibkids say.
I know in Empire Alone there is a sidebar that discusses rumors that fly between the lower Caste members on the Chatterweb, a lot of them paint the wolves in poor light, it must have come from somewhere.
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If I recall correctly, it came from laborers that were offloading Sea Fox barter and saw that they had Wolf markings and serial numbers. No Tucker Harwell connection needed there.
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The Golden Talons
I believe there are pilot cards ?
Also was thinking the other night, are Jiyi and Stephanie from the same sibko ?
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Hey, can anyone remember seeing a reference to the Mad Cat Pryde being used by Falcon warriors after Aidan's death? I feel like I saw that somewhere but can't remember what book it was in and the MUL lists the configuration as unique and extinct after Tukayyid. I need a reference that contradicts that in order to get it changed.
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If I recall correctly, it came from laborers that were offloading Sea Fox barter and saw that they had Wolf markings and serial numbers. No Tucker Harwell connection needed there.
I think what you mean is a report from the Wolf Watch in the Empire. In Empire Alone page 63 there is a report from Solaris VII that they found Sea Foxes selling Wolf gear (Mechs, tanks, battle armor) made with Wolf moldings and stamps and even going so far that this is gear produced on Terra from Republic factories. The report concludes that the Foxes are selling the Wolves their own gear for higher prices and also wondering that if the Foxes are selling Wolf gear then how many Wolf warriors are actually left after taking Terra. Plus that the empire is basically used as a tool to save the Terran Wolves from extinction. That report is from early 3152.
Or do you mean the chatterweb logs after the Dragoons had sacked Gienah? Those were more specualtions on why the Dragoons did this and what really happened on Terra
What I meant was a notice from Ilclan where Alaric was informed that Tucker vanished without a trace from a full hospital which was also under guard from the Wolves and also that someone is propagating propaganda on Terra in regards to the Wolves not finding a safe route through the walls but were actually invited by Stone or that it is the Wolves fault the barbarians (Falcons) made it to Terra. Though that was confined to Terra at that point and also the suspicion that this propaganda was coming from Tucker (well a Comstar member should know a thing or two on how to disseminate information on Terra despite the brain damage his insane sister inflicted on him)
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If I recall correctly, it came from laborers that were offloading Sea Fox barter and saw that they had Wolf markings and serial numbers. No Tucker Harwell connection needed there.
given Tucker's actively being hunted, he'd e a fool to run around hacking the chatternet, if he's smart he's laying low out in the boonies of terra until he can figure out how to smuggle himself into I dunno.. the fedsuns outback or some other place he can hide until/unless he needs to make a move
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Tucker Harwell just needs to forge himself a new identity and fade into obscurity. He was always a plot device more than he ever was an actual character anyway. But I'm sure he'll pop up again later for some lame eleventh-hour "gotcha!" reveal of... something or another.
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He'll build an HPG Cannon and get Alaric with it.
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Tucker Harwell, rollin’ with the Anodyne Cross Militua.
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Tucker Harwell, rollin’ with the Anodyne Cross Militua.
If the ACM ever gets fully canonized, I damn well better get my Hell’s Horses Ragnarok.
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Going back to the mystery of the Golden Talons...I found the DeviantArt page for the cover artist(look for Spooky777), and they have a high-res version of the box cover.
That is definitely Lambda, the colors are clearer in this file and the insignia is clearly visible on the Pouncer's shoulder.
Now wether it's still a full Galaxy remains to be seen. For all we know it may be Lambda Cluster for now, with the Trinary on Caph being the entirety of the Golden Talons.
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The name seems kinda keshik sounding.
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The name seems kinda keshik sounding.
Not really. It was previously the nickname for the Falcons' 5th Battle Cluster. And given that that Cluster has served in two Galaxies (Delta and Epsilon) already, it'd be funny if it were now part of a third (Lambda). Like a bad seed foster child that keeps getting brought back to the agency. ;D
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Now wether it's still a full Galaxy remains to be seen. For all we know it may be Lambda Cluster for now, with the Trinary on Caph being the entirety of the Golden Talons.
Aren’t all of Alaric’s forces in the same recruitment bind? Meaning, they have little to no recruitment? HotW has Falcon ground troops at <100 people surviving. We know at least some elementals survived, though probably at lower rates than the mech jocks. Falcons would optimistically field maybe 2 clusters of mechs. Depending on how it’s played in ilKEO (maybe a lot of elementals survived), it could be a single large cluster.
Calling 100 troops a galaxy would be some Alaric level marketing, but not really realistic.
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Going back to the mystery of the Golden Talons...I found the DeviantArt page for the cover artist(look for Spooky777), and they have a high-res version of the box cover.
That is definitely Lambda, the colors are clearer in this file and the insignia is clearly visible on the Pouncer's shoulder.
Now wether it's still a full Galaxy remains to be seen. For all we know it may be Lambda Cluster for now, with the Trinary on Caph being the entirety of the Golden Talons.
Which art work specifically ?
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Aren’t all of Alaric’s forces in the same recruitment bind? Meaning, they have little to no recruitment? HotW has Falcon ground troops at <100 people surviving. We know at least some elementals survived, though probably at lower rates than the mech jocks. Falcons would optimistically field maybe 2 clusters of mechs. Depending on how it’s played in ilKEO (maybe a lot of elementals survived), it could be a single large cluster.
Calling 100 troops a galaxy would be some Alaric level marketing, but not really realistic.
If you are going by "Only pureblooded Clanners can be soldiers in my new Star LEague" then the Wolves and Flacons are on one hell of a bind to get new troops. The Empire's sibkos aren't ready yet or getting absorbed by the Dragoons and the not Terra Falcons have other problems to deal with. That is probably the reason alaric demands that the other Clans follow him: a new supply of troops. Unless they start heavily recruiting former RAF personnel
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If you are going by "Only pureblooded Clanners can be soldiers in my new Star LEague" then the Wolves and Flacons are on one hell of a bind to get new troops. The Empire's sibkos aren't ready yet or getting absorbed by the Dragoons and the not Terra Falcons have other problems to deal with. That is probably the reason alaric demands that the other Clans follow him: a new supply of troops. Unless they start heavily recruiting former RAF personnel
except why would Alaric make that decision? the wolves made HEAVY use of freebirth warriors in the lead up to Terra.
The clans will likely follow a similer pattern on terra to what we saw in the wolf empire.
Academies on terra and in the "terran region" that the clans hold, will start churning out soldiers for the clans, efforts will also be made to recruit where possiable from the former ROTS.
republic factories in clan hands will swiftly be shifted to produce clan versions of the mechs produced (made easier as the ROTS is already doing this, expect to see clan tech Laments etc) and proably start producing clan mechs as well.
This BTW isn't going to immediatly happen it'll take a few years for Alaric to start seeing dividands, until then he's vunerable and is going to need to play it careful
now for some, TOTAL speculation.
so the genetic future of the wolves and falcons is in a bit of an odd situation with their sibkos quite likely out of reach and thus the collective genetic legacies of their past, quite possiably (very likely in the case of the falcons) lost to them, what do they do?
I'm going to take a guess that the long term solution is going to be to take a page from history.
The conquest of Terra is the msot important military action take by the clans since the Pentagon, Alaric could thus declare that very warrior who participated in the conquer of terra (wolf and falcon both) may start a new blood house. This would be excessive for the wolves (assuming the wolves have 30 clusters of 50 warriors left, that would be 1500 potential bloodname houses) but for the jade falcons would be very much a useful life line.
even if Alaric didn't declare this I imagine any freeborn warriors whom proved to be of "partiuclar worth" will have a very likely chance at a bloodname house.
doing this for the falcons could BTW result in both Jiyi's falcons and the terran falcons having a completely differant bloodname roster from each other, and one distinct from the falcons of old
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If you are going by "Only pureblooded Clanners can be soldiers in my new Star LEague" then the Wolves and Flacons are on one hell of a bind to get new troops. The Empire's sibkos aren't ready yet or getting absorbed by the Dragoons and the not Terra Falcons have other problems to deal with. That is probably the reason alaric demands that the other Clans follow him: a new supply of troops. Unless they start heavily recruiting former RAF personnel
I’m not necessarily restricting Wolves and Falcons to trueborn. I just don’t think they’ll find much help from Terra.
1) The surviving falcons are supposed to be Alaric’s Black Watch. His elite, trusted bodyguard unit sent on any yet mission he needs a scalpel or rabidly loyal troops for.
2) Clan Wolf stands as anathema to the culture that the Republic had been building. That’s after you start with the fact that clanners have been the 100% real boogiemen coming for Terra with an openly stated goal of destroying their government, cultures, and way of life to replace them with clanner ‘culture’ for a century.
3) Alaric seems to have taken the stance in the Shrapbel story about the Ares crew that if you weren’t willing to aid against the falcons, he doesn’t want you. Between this and his rejection of the Bears in AQoS, I don’t see him recruiting many ex-RAF that weren’t already his by the end of HotW.
4) Stone had recruited every volunteer they could get and then some. There isn’t exactly a huge reserve of non ex-RAF to tap anymore.
5) Falcons have an earned rep as mass murdering lunatics. Not likely to see volunteers to join them.
6) The tiny flashes of Alaric we’ve seen so far indicates (to me) that he wants his faux league to be pure clan.
Between all that, I don’t think Alaric is going to get much for voluntary new recruits from Terra and I don’t see him wanting to or knowing how to actively recruit on Terra. So I don’t see the wolves getting much at all. For those ex-RAF that didn’t join him in HotW, would Alaric ever trust them to assign them to his bodyguard unit?
Unless Alaric just transfers wolf warriors into Falcon ranks, which would be… unlikely, then the falcons are even worse off for recruitment.
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except why would Alaric make that decision? the wolves made HEAVY use of freebirth warriors in the lead up to Terra.
The clans will likely follow a similer pattern on terra to what we saw in the wolf empire.
Academies on terra and in the "terran region" that the clans hold, will start churning out soldiers for the clans, efforts will also be made to recruit where possiable from the former ROTS.
republic factories in clan hands will swiftly be shifted to produce clan versions of the mechs produced (made easier as the ROTS is already doing this, expect to see clan tech Laments etc) and proably start producing clan mechs as well.
This BTW isn't going to immediatly happen it'll take a few years for Alaric to start seeing dividands, until then he's vunerable and is going to need to play it careful
Maybe I should have stated "Clan Wolf only warriors" As you correctly said the Wolves used a lot of IS freeborns from the Free Worlds League, Lyran Commonwealth and even Republic. All either volunteered or adopted into Clan Wolf. BUT what about the RAF soldiers that told Alaric to shove his offer up his ass? They will most likely not be considered as replacement troops despite probably still having huge numbers on their side. Training on Terra should be feasable unless the assault wasted the academies on Terra and Mars. But training qualified pilots takes time. Time Alaric doesn't have and the Republic didn't have enough manpower anyway to pilot the produced hardware right?
I think the Falcons are even more interesting: as you said if they are to be his Blackwatch they won't even need many sibkos or rather graduates. Unless it will become like the Gunslinger program of old: show the skills to apply but no guarantee you get in. What about those? Would they become Falon reserves? Or Wolf warriors?
This could also mean that we mighht get two distinct Falcon Clans: the Blackwatch Falcons and the Reaches Falcons. And then they can butt heads who the real Jade Falcons are
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The conquest of Terra is the msot important military action take by the clans since the Pentagon, Alaric could thus declare that very warrior who participated in the conquer of terra (wolf and falcon both) may start a new blood house. This would be excessive for the wolves (assuming the wolves have 30 clusters of 50 warriors left, that would be 1500 potential bloodname houses) but for the jade falcons would be very much a useful life line.
You’re right that the logistics of this is kind of a mess, but I do enjoy the idea of a meaningful definitive legacy given to those who conquered Terra and achieved clanners’ supposed manifest destiny.
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Maybe y'all should take all this Alaric/Wolves talk to the Wolf thread. ;)
This could also mean that we mighht get two distinct Falcon Clans: the Blackwatch Falcons and the Reaches Falcons.
We already have that.
You’re right that the logistics of this is kind of a mess, but I do enjoy the idea of a meaningful definitive legacy given to those who conquered Terra and achieved clanners’ supposed manifest destiny.
Isn't that the whole point of the BloodRibbons?
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Maybe y'all should take all this Alaric/Wolves talk to the Wolf thread. ;)
We already have that.
Isn't that the whole point of the BloodRibbons?
Kinda, a holder of a blood ribbon is placed above any warrior without one. a bloodnamed wolf mechwarrior is expected to salute a Solhama infantryman who happened to be on Terra. But it's not a boodname. Giving a decent number of freeborns who distinguished themselves a chance at forming bloodnames demonstrates that "hey it could happen to you too" as well as binds those freeborn warriors closer to the clan as they're not just warriors, but they're part of the GOVERNMENT (at the same time granting too many bloodnames runs the risk of the trueborns losing control, so it'lll be a balancing act). Beyond freeborn troops who where raised as wolves, giving former ROTS bondsmen a chance is also good, essentially you reward collaboration.
Once she's proven herself, I expect Tara Campell to form a bloodhouse, for example.
which, moving back fully to the jade falcons, I predict that if the terran falcons and Jiyi's falcons are kept apart for a generation or two (20+ years) they'll evolve into their own distinct clans, with their own practices and customs,
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which, moving back fully to the jade falcons, I predict that if the terran falcons and Jiyi's falcons are kept apart for a generation or two (20+ years) they'll evolve into their own distinct clans, with their own practices and customs,
It will probably go like that, and sounds interesting, more fiction material to work with, (or possibly even the Tamar Pact / Mostly unified Hinterlands Theory)
Will be interesting the dialogue between Stephanie and Jiyi, hell, Jiyi might throw in there "if you get fed up with Alaric, come up here, for the Glory of the redeemed Falcon !"
But they need each other too.
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We can't be sure of that, we have no idea, for example, what resources Stephene Christu has to work with
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We can't be sure of that, we have no idea, for example, what resources Stephene Christu has to work with
3152-3154
Terra factories, possibly an Enclave on Northwind, An Elite Cluster, plus support, round about a Galaxy, plus new Keshik ? Better public image, getting rid of labelling, "all Falcons are like The Not Named Hazen "
Some trading with Jiyi, as his mech factories are churning out Turkina's >:D
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Hey, can anyone remember seeing a reference to the Mad Cat Pryde being used by Falcon warriors after Aidan's death? I feel like I saw that somewhere but can't remember what book it was in and the MUL lists the configuration as unique and extinct after Tukayyid. I need a reference that contradicts that in order to get it changed.
Rec Guide 22 has Star Commander Durge Zywot pilot a 'Pryde' configuration Timber Wolf until he acquires a Jade Phoenix.
Don't know how canonical or apocryphal it is, but the Mad Cat Pryde card from the old CCG has flavor text describing the mech as gaining acceptance throughout the clan.
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3152-3154
Terra factories, possibly an Enclave on Northwind, An Elite Cluster, plus support, round about a Galaxy, plus new Keshik ? Better public image, getting rid of labelling, "all Falcons are like The Not Named Hazen "
Some trading with Jiyi, as his mech factories are churning out Turkina's >:D
Material wise it sounds ok (well we don't know how much the Terran factories actually churn out. Heck Empire Alone made it sound as if the Foxes take a good chunk of the material produced there). But replacing manpower might be hard if the Falcons are restricted to Clanners. Though I suspect that Tara will try to get as many of her Highlanders to join as a measure of image building (also trained troops are better then green ones)
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After Liao & Kurita's invasion, I'd expect the Highlanders to stay home and rebuild their forces.
the 1st Kearney, Gray Watch and the XII Hastati Sentinels can't be very reassuring to the Clans & the Elders after the battering they all took.
Its time to take the Regimental Claymores off the display stand in the Elder's Hall and start rebuilding in earnest.
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3152-3154
Terra factories, possibly an Enclave on Northwind, An Elite Cluster, plus support, round about a Galaxy, plus new Keshik ? Better public image, getting rid of labelling, "all Falcons are like The Not Named Hazen "
Some trading with Jiyi, as his mech factories are churning out Turkina's >:D
Northwind are not jade falcons, they are openly hostile to the jade falcons.
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They'll be very conflicted if Tara Jade Falcon comes home for a visit.
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I think they'll be less conflicted and more just label her a traitor.
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Yeah I don’t think she’ll have the plot armor Phelan did. Oh now that I say that this whole story line got a lot more disappointing.
King-shit heir apparent of (Merc Group with its own manufacturing base) is taken captive, gets minimal brainwashing. Becomes important.
Sadge
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I don’t know that they’d label her a traitor. That shrapnel story made it sound like the Highlanders understood she’s the reason they made it off Terra intact. Any non-violent visit would probably be a hell of a lot of mixed feelings.
Any violent visit Tara Campbell-Wolf-Jade Falcon participates in would probably snap the last threads of positive feelings. Though there’s some interesting storytelling opportunities if Falcons attack, get repelled, and Tara is captured by NWH.
Material wise it sounds ok (well we don't know how much the Terran factories actually churn out. Heck Empire Alone made it sound as if the Foxes take a good chunk of the material produced there). But replacing manpower might be hard if the Falcons are restricted to Clanners. Though I suspect that Tara will try to get as many of her Highlanders to join as a measure of image building (also trained troops are better then green ones)
In the short term, it doesn’t matter what Terra can churn out. Wolves and their two pet clans don’t want for material. They have more salvageable mechs than they can use even after giving mountains of it away. They need people.
As for recruiting highlanders, the last Shrapnel and the AS box made it clear Highlanders are not going to be friendly with clanners. They were republic troops, joining the falcons would be a huge stretch
3152-3154
Terra factories, possibly an Enclave on Northwind, An Elite Cluster, plus support, round about a Galaxy, plus new Keshik ? Better public image, getting rid of labelling, "all Falcons are like The Not Named Hazen "
Some trading with Jiyi, as his mech factories are churning out Turkina's >:D
Northwind is too far away for the moment. ilClanners don’t (well, shouldn’t in a logical universe) have the number of people needed to push that far out. Especially since hints we are getting sounds like DCMS and CCAF have moved over or are moving a lot of material towards Terra.
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I don’t know that they’d label her a traitor. That shrapnel story made it sound like the Highlanders understood she’s the reason they made it off Terra intact. Any non-violent visit would probably be a hell of a lot of mixed feelings.
Any violent visit Tara Campbell-Wolf-Jade Falcon participates in would probably snap the last threads of positive feelings. Though there’s some interesting storytelling opportunities if Falcons attack, get repelled, and Tara is captured by NWH.
In the short term, it doesn’t matter what Terra can churn out. Wolves and their two pet clans don’t want for material. They have more salvageable mechs than they can use even after giving mountains of it away. They need people.
As for recruiting highlanders, the last Shrapnel and the AS box made it clear Highlanders are not going to be friendly with clanners. They were republic troops, joining the falcons would be a huge stretch
Northwind is too far away for the moment. ilClanners don’t (well, shouldn’t in a logical universe) have the number of people needed to push that far out. Especially since hints we are getting sounds like DCMS and CCAF have moved over or are moving a lot of material towards Terra.
Plot twist: Tara gets freed by her Highlasnders then challenges Alaric to a proper trial for leadership and wins underscoring that her victory on Terra over Alaric wasn't a fluke.
If the Falcons are to be the new Blackwatch they have most likely very limited recruiting opportunities. The original Black Watch only took in Gunslingers so I would assume the new Falconwatch or however it will be called will also only accept specific warriors if they will emulate their historic role as bodyguards of the First Lord or First Khan or whatever the new title will be. And I doubt any RAF members that aren'T already part of the touman will join now. They are too resentful and also several of those have already left Terra.
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the jade falcons are a clan, it's unlikely the jade falcons will externally recruit. most likely, long term the jade falcons will be a full sized clan, and the black watch role will be taken by a single cluster in the touman, that consists of their elites
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They're a "Clan" without any holdings. That means no sibkos and no population to recruit from.
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They're a "Clan" without any holdings. That means no sibkos and no population to recruit from.
Harvest Trials- for the "Honor" of serving Alaric.
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They're a "Clan" without any holdings. That means no sibkos and no population to recruit from.
we saw a star garrisioning Caph, proably a bit early to say they have NO holdings
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It's a bit early to say anything with any certainty, honestly. We simply don't know what the current condition of the Falcons are beyond "there's a handful of them left, they're the RBW Clan now, they're led by Stephanie 'Knives Are My Only Character Trait' Chistu, and they have Tara Campbell in their ranks". We can make somewhat educated guesses, but no one's gonna win on their this-is-how-things-will-go bingo cards, I can pretty much guarantee that.
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Hasn't it been confirmed that the Royal Black Watch bit is being way overstated?
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Hasn't it been confirmed that the Royal Black Watch bit is being way overstated?
Yup. Dev post somewhere, I’m general I think
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It was ray
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About the only certainty is that the Highlanders will betray somebody, so Northwind is joining the Clans and Tara is joining the Highlanders.
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It's a bit early to say anything with any certainty, honestly. We simply don't know what the current condition of the Falcons are beyond "there's a handful of them left, they're the RBW Clan now, they're led by Stephanie 'Knives Are My Only Character Trait' Chistu, and they have Tara Campbell in their ranks". We can make somewhat educated guesses, but no one's gonna win on their this-is-how-things-will-go bingo cards, I can pretty much guarantee that.
No offense Tassa but if your take away from Stephanie Christu is that knives are her only character trait,you've bot read her very well. first of all knives aren't her hobby, smithing is (blade smithing in partiuclar but I'm sure she's tried her hand in other areas, being this is a hobby for her not a profession) the fact that she has a hobby at all sets her apart from 99% of every clan character every created. We also know she's a very honorable individual she'll follow her orders yes but at the same time will choose the honorable interpretation of it (hence why she didn't glass coventry, we also know she's a patient individual capable of long term planning, willing to plant seeds on the chance they'll sprout into something of value.... we also know she's willing to use that long term planning to think outside the box, such as in her role in the assasination of Malvina Hazen... you did BTW catch that it ehr the knife she crafted that Cynthia used to kill Malvina?
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No offense Tassa but if your take away from Stephanie Christu is that knives are her only character trait,you've bot read her very well.
Okay, so she has "two" character traits. Truth be told, I don't really care. Stephanie Chistu is just another Noritomo Helmer "I am Jade Falcon" cookie cutter archetype as far as I'm concerned.
first of all knives aren't her hobby, smithing is (blade smithing in partiuclar but I'm sure she's tried her hand in other areas, being this is a hobby for her not a profession)
A meaningless distinction.
the fact that she has a hobby at all sets her apart from 99% of every clan character every created.
And 99% of every *other* character ever created in this setting.
We also know she's a very honorable individual she'll follow her orders yes but at the same time will choose the honorable interpretation of it (hence why she didn't glass coventry, we also know she's a patient individual capable of long term planning, willing to plant seeds on the chance they'll sprout into something of value.... we also know she's willing to use that long term planning to think outside the box, such as in her role in the assasination of Malvina Hazen
Assassination is not honorable by the Clan definition of the term. Using an abused child to do the assassinating is even worse. She and Alaric should compare notes on their hypocrisy sometime.
you did BTW catch that it ehr the knife she crafted that Cynthia used to kill Malvina?
Yes, I did catch the fact that Stephanie Chistu put a knife into the hands of a child and said child, who'd never been abused by Malvina *once* before Blorp got his hack hands on her and in fact was quite fond of Malvina, murdered Malvina with it.
Sorry, but no sale here. Stephanie Chistu isn't a character, she's a Blorp plot device.
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Sorry, but I don't buy for an instant that someone as unstable and violent as Malvina could have ever been a non-abusive parental figure. The Clan Way is itself highly abusive toward children to begin with: a trueborn warrior never has any opportunity to learn anything about child rearing. Add Malvina's temperament on top of that? No way that Cynthy was being treated well.
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Sorry, but I don't buy for an instant that someone as unstable and violent as Malvina could have ever been a non-abusive parental figure. The Clan Way is itself highly abusive toward children to begin with: a trueborn warrior never has any opportunity to learn anything about child rearing. Add Malvina's temperament on top of that? No way that Cynthy was being treated well.
That was the entire point of her taking in Cynthy to begin with: she specifically wanted to shield her *from* the sort of abuse she and Aleksandr suffered in their youths. Cynthy was a vicarious indulgence for her. Turning Malvina into a violent child abuser out of absolutely nowhere and completely ignoring her previous characterization in that area was bad writing. YMMV.
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I'm willing to accept that Malvina wanted to try to shield Cynthy from abuse. I just don't buy that she was capable of doing so.
Like the cases of lionesses who lose their cubs and end up trying to adopt baby antelopes, wild dogs, hyenas, or other animals, the intentions may start out as good but it never turns out well in the end.
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That's... a really good analogy, actually.
I'd have found the whole thing easier to swallow had there been any build-up to it. But it was such a drastic shift in their dynamic out of absolutely nowhere, and I'm not a fan of any writer ignoring previously-established characterization to drive plot.
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They're a "Clan" without any holdings. That means no sibkos and no population to recruit from.
What about the Falcon Forces themselves on Terra ?
They can make Sibkos from there, yes it will take 17 years, and a "relaxed" training regime to get needed man power they need (and yes there is plenty of diversity, as not just the remaining Warriors can be used in new Sibkos) in the end it is all Falcon Genes, if you look at the very nature of the Sibko weeding out process in the past. It will have to be a bit of a throw back to after the Retaking of the Pentagon almost, where the Clan was birthed from a Cluster, with support personnel and lessons learned since them, face by pragmatism, which Stephanie can think that way. And or linking up with Jiyi
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About the only certainty is that the Highlanders will betray somebody, so Northwind is joining the Clans and Tara is joining the Highlanders.
I know it’s a joke, but the idea of the plot warping that much to quintuple Alaric’s Falcon numbers so they can grow up and be a real clan irks me.
we saw a star garrisioning Caph, proably a bit early to say they have NO holdings
Depends. Cause as of the end of HotW, Falcons were Alaric’s property. They may only be holding Caph for the Wolfes.
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Just out of curiosity: do the Wolves and Falcons take their precious iron wombs with them when they attacked Terra? Because if not then good luck creating new trueborns. Sure they could manufacture them on Terra (and the tech should be avaliable on Terra) but getting them to work at peap efficency will take time. also what about genetic material? Are those on their capital worlds (Gienah and Sudeten respectively)? Or are they on board on one of their Warships?
I know that Alaric and Malvina brought the majority of their toumans to Terra (except disgraced, solahma and young sibkos) but also the foundations of their genetic programs? And as said by James_Pryde it will take nearly 2 decades until new truborns actually fill the gaps in the toumans of said Clans (if they start from scratch). And as both Clans are probably finding out right now their former vast holdings are getting devoured by neighbours and with it any replacement troops from their own Clans
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The falcons left behind almost the entirely of their non-military people. I assume this means they brought a good portion of techs, doctors, medics, and scientists to build the higher level prosthetics to get warriors back into the fight.
They really have no way to create new warriors, let alone have the genetic material to do so. I don’t know why one would bring their genetic repository with them at all, especially for the Falcons, on a military campaign. The wolves had every intention of moving as seen by moving their population as a whole, so it makes more sense there (although not a whole lot).
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I'd have found the whole thing easier to swallow had there been any build-up to it. But it was such a drastic shift in their dynamic out of absolutely nowhere, and I'm not a fan of any writer ignoring previously-established characterization to drive plot.
Now that part I agree with.
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That's... a really good analogy, actually.
I'd have found the whole thing easier to swallow had there been any build-up to it. But it was such a drastic shift in their dynamic out of absolutely nowhere, and I'm not a fan of any writer ignoring previously-established characterization to drive plot.
Good news! Pardoe is no longer writing any of these characters (or any other BattleTech character, for that matter), and we don't have to pretend otherwise. We can all look forward to the cardboard cutouts getting real character traits without blaming the cutouts for their previous lack.
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, let alone have the genetic material to do so. I
The proven finest examples of Clan genetics is sitting there on Terra wearing Blood ribbons.
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The proven finest examples of Clan genetics is sitting there on Terra wearing Blood ribbons.
I mean that’s true I suppose. But the ability to use it along with the iron wombs needed probably wouldn’t be there
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I mean that’s true I suppose. But the ability to use it along with the iron wombs needed probably wouldn’t be there
I think time (specifically the time it takes to grow batches of Clanners from scratch and properly train them) would be a much bigger concern than this. Between Terra's unsurpassed level of medical technology and the fact that the Clans could simply build iron wombs or get them from the Foxes or another Clan, the capability isn't really much of a stretch.
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That's what I was saying, there is more than enough Genes with ALL Falcons on Terra (not just warriors, as even civilian castes mainly come from Sibkos ironically)
And Jiyi holds Sudeten, so the Repository is there, Stephanie could easily get legacies to work with and help Terran Falcons build and recover from the "Cluster"
Side note: Which Shrapnel story about Highlanders and Jade Falcon you guys mentioned ?
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That's... a really good analogy, actually.
I'd have found the whole thing easier to swallow had there been any build-up to it. But it was such a drastic shift in their dynamic out of absolutely nowhere, and I'm not a fan of any writer ignoring previously-established characterization to drive plot.
"Fleeting
video footage of the girl from the aftermath of several battles during
Malvina’s rampage towards Tharkad shows us a teenager whose
body language and physical reactions are, to quote Dr. Lambert in
the psyops division, “textbook abuse victim combined with posttraumatic
stress.”"
- Era report 3145.
we last saw Cynthy in a novel in rending of Falcons, a novel where she was a 5 year old girl. by 3145 she's a 15 year old, and on Terra she was a 20 year old woman.
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“So, what do we actually know about our glorious new Khan?”
“Uh, She opposed the Mongol Doctrine,”
“I meant as a person.”
“She likes knives?”
“I thought so.”
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Side note: Which Shrapnel story about Highlanders and Jade Falcon you guys mentioned ?
Alpha Strike Box tells about Falcons fighting Highlanders
Shrapnel 11 discusses highlanders post Terra
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"Fleeting
video footage of the girl from the aftermath of several battles during
Malvina’s rampage towards Tharkad shows us a teenager whose
body language and physical reactions are, to quote Dr. Lambert in
the psyops division, “textbook abuse victim combined with posttraumatic
stress.”"
- Era report 3145.
Another example of exactly what I was talking about.
Sorry, but you're not going to convince me that this wasn't a characterization shift. Best to just agree to disagree and move on.
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Another example of exactly what I was talking about.
Sorry, but you're not going to convince me that this wasn't a characterization shift. Best to just agree to disagree and move on.
except that era report 3145 wasn't written by Blaine Lee Pardoe, so claiming this is "BLP's fault" isn't true, and yet again, the last time we saw Cyynthy in the books, she was 5, ten years is a LOOOONG time for a relationship to evolve and change.
a cute 5 year old becomes a lippy 15 year old, and gets beaten down.
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The last time we saw Cynthy in a novel was "A Bonfire of Worlds", a scant few years before ER3145, and she wasn't being abused there, either.
ER3145 wasn't his fault, but his novels are. So again, agree to disagree, because we will never see eye-to-eye on this.
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The last time we saw Cynthy in a novel was "A Bonfire of Worlds", a scant few years before ER3145, and she wasn't being abused there, either.
ER3145 wasn't his fault, but his novels are. So again, agree to disagree, because we will never see eye-to-eye on this.
yes she was being abused, she was ALWAYS being abused.
even if it wasn't physical it was being absued, and if you think her relationship with Malvina wasn't abusive then... well.. don't have kids.
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even if it wasn't physical it was being absued, and if you think her relationship with Malvina wasn't abusive then... well.. don't have kids.
You damn well know I'm referring to the violent physical abuse. Please don't be intellectually dishonest if you're going to talk to me.
As for having kids, I wouldn't want them anyway. I hate kids. That's money I could be spending on myself.
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Could we drop this already?
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Could we drop this already?
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I had a dream !
Turkina Elizabeth Hazen Nova Catbird showed me
Something BIG Jade Falcon is coming (as in official stuff) 8)
All I can say lol, as in I was reviewing the material, looking over maps, mechs, books etc, the dates 3152 towards the end, (3156?) And was so happy, that's it
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I had a dream !
Turkina Elizabeth Hazen Nova Catbird showed me
Something BIG Jade Falcon is coming (as in official stuff) 8)
All I can say lol, as in I was reviewing the material, looking over maps, mechs, books etc, the dates 3152 towards the end, (3156?) And was so happy, that's it
(http://media.tumblr.com/403ad39bc707ba40df91683a9d2d4f12/tumblr_inline_mqkxvnpd971qz4rgp.gif)
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This is why I don't eat spicy food before bedtime. To avoid nova catbirds. :D
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Is this like those edited pics where you got a bird with cat's face/head?
So a Jade Falcon with Nova Cat face?
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That seems more like a Scorpion vision…
???
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Did someone find the secret stash of necrosia? Or take lessons by a Nova cat mystic?
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hahah
No, seriously, I had a dream, normal, non necrosia induced dream 8)
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Soooo
Any "new" (brief) snippets from DD that pertain to us ?
Besides me seeing Alaric losing credibility
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Only Chistu's incursion to the RasDom from their POV.
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Only Chistu's incursion to the RasDom from their POV.
speaking of, he got basically a Cluster's worth of sib-cadets...it's unlikely they all pass muster to become warriors (unless the Falcons are desperate enough to graduate them all--which they are), where do they go from there? you think Chistu is pulling the same stunt across Horse space? grabbing up what sibkos where he can?
even if he grabs a ton of sibkos, how long until they are warriors and how long until they have the 'Mechs to equip them?
how much time does Chistu have?
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speaking of, he got basically a Cluster's worth of sib-cadets...it's unlikely they all pass muster to become warriors (unless the Falcons are desperate enough to graduate them all--which they are), where do they go from there? you think Chistu is pulling the same stunt across Horse space? grabbing up what sibkos where he can?
even if he grabs a ton of sibkos, how long until they are warriors and how long until they have the 'Mechs to equip them?
how much time does Chistu have?
the ones who failed where IIRC shunted into conventional units.
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you think Chistu is pulling the same stunt across Horse space? grabbing up what sibkos where he can?
I doubt it. Chistu can't afford to further antagonize the Horses, especially not with a new Khan in charge that won't hold back like the last one did and certainly has an axe to grind against Chistu for Sudeten, and his realm is too new, too fragile, and too surrounded by enemies to allow him to get too adventurous.
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Figure Chistu will try to expand in the Hinterlands next. Secure more territory, just build-up everything. Figure he'll train the sibbies by using them offensively. Looking at the latest map (Tamar Rising page 72), there are unclaimed worlds toward the Alyina Mercantile League. Or he could try to take out Malthus Confederation. If he wants a stronger opponent, the Tamar Pact could be a target.
The sibko-grab seems to have been basically just a start but an extremely dangerous, if not even impossible, stunt to repeat. Not because it is unusual for the Clans, more like it was so humiliating to the Rasalhague Dominion.
The Horses seem too established and powerful to be a viable target, except perhaps small raids for material at best. Maybe. Currently re-reading Tamar Rising, need to bring myself up to speed again.
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I'm not sure Jiyi will wanna expand too recklessly, it might be best to keep to worlds a single jump from Sudeten so that he can rapidly bring his full force to bear
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The Hinterlands seems like a race against time. Whoever there gets most territory (as that comes with people, resources, production capability) may end up overall in the strongest position. To be sure, there are dangers in expansion too, as the powers in the Hinterlands have extremely limited forces overall.
Perhaps it will become a free for all land that constantly changes owners?
Almotacen at least is within 30ly from Sudeten, so it might be the next target, and unclaimed. If Chistu is willing to attack the Horses, Colmar looks like it might secure some buffer.
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Well none of the unclaimed worlds have any major military facilities that I can find
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Fair enough, though people, resources, tax income, all that can be still worth it even if there are no major production centers.
At least given how BattleTech nations are so insistent on claiming territory so often seemingly just for sake of claiming it.
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There's a lot of historical precedent for states claiming territory with no, or even negative, value for a variety of reasons. And who hasn't conquered territory in a strategy game to make your name bigger or make the border look neater?
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And who hasn't conquered territory in a strategy game to make your name bigger or make the border look neater?
Ah yes, the Jade Falcons conquering territory just to avoid border gore ;D
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the ones who failed where IIRC shunted into conventional units.
Yeah, he guaranteed every one of them a position in the warrior caste regardless of whether they could pass a Trial of Position or not. The trial results just determine where they'll end up. And he's got enough factories that he's got no shortage of equipment, what he needed were bodies to pilot that equipment.
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The sibko-grab seems to have been basically just a start but an extremely dangerous, if not even impossible, stunt to repeat.
It only worked because the Bears had concentrated so many Sibkos into a single location. In smaller numbers you risk having more warriors die, than the number of cadets you would gain.
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It only worked because the Bears had concentrated so many Sibkos into a single location. In smaller numbers you risk having more warriors die, than the number of cadets you would gain.
That begs the question: why go for sibkos? Wouldn't harvest trials for trained warriors be a better option in the short term to shore up the touman? Or would they be too resistant to integration?
The again this was probably a high return strike to get more cadets at once
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That begs the question: why go for sibkos? Wouldn't harvest trials for trained warriors be a better option in the short term to shore up the touman? Or would they be too resistant to integration?
To be fair, it's easier to train puppies cubs than dogs bears.
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I think the main point was that sibkos can be molded to accept Falcon ideology relatively easy, whereas harvest trials would wind up getting you a bunch of grown warriors who could easily become a power bloc (especially in a force as small as the Remnant Falcons). It's why the Falcons spun off the Jade Wolves after the Refusal War and the Adders spun off the Stone Lions after the Wars of Reaving.
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That begs the question: why go for sibkos? Wouldn't harvest trials for trained warriors be a better option in the short term to shore up the touman? Or would they be too resistant to integration?
The again this was probably a high return strike to get more cadets at once
The Jade Falcons need to be rebuild from the ground up. Sure they could have harvested older warriors but most would have 5-10 years before they’re put to pasture. Not to mention some may have committed bondsref.
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There's also that a sibko's psychology can be adjusted. A trained warrior is frozen on their tracks. They don't adopt new ideas.
Jiyi knows to survive and grow, the Falcons need to change. Young minds are more willing to do that.
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That begs the question: why go for sibkos? Wouldn't harvest trials for trained warriors be a better option in the short term to shore up the touman? Or would they be too resistant to integration?
It may just be where the gap exists in Jiyi’s warrior caste demographics. If Malvina took all the Falcon sibkin old enough to fight with her to Terra to get them blooded and boost her manpower (the Falcons did this at Coventry last century), then there may be a hole in the Jiyi’s teenage warrior caste population but not in the age groups on either side. He has freebirths, solahma, dezgra, and test-downs above, say, 18 years of age. And he may have trueborn sibkin below, say, 13 years of age. But Jiyi may have no warrior caste in between, which leaves his touman vulnerable if it takes a beating and there’s no one old enough to test out and replace casualties. So Jiyi decided to requisition at gunpoint some teenage abtakha sibkin from the Bears (or Horses).
Of course, in the real world, such captured foreign troops are unlikely to fight well for their new nation, and that would probably be especially true of children taken from their homes. A real-world Jiyi would likely be better off recruiting the best from his worlds’ industrialmech handlers and the like, who would be invested in Jiyi’s nation. But this is BT, where Clanners, mercs, even some House troops, and especially the Northwind Highlanders change sides easier than some people change which sports teams they root for.
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But this is BT, where Clanners, mercs, even some House troops, and especially the Northwind Highlanders change sides easier than some people change which sports teams they root for.
-laughing-
It really is easier to have the Dragoons or Highlanders break a contract than to get a college football fan to say ANYTHING nice about their rivals! ;-) hahaha
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But this is BT, where Clanners, mercs, even some House troops, and especially the Northwind Highlanders change sides easier than some people change which sports teams they root for.
Its the Way of the Clans ;D, simply change the flag above your head if captured. As if it is something large scale, it will change back soon ;D More easily done though with the Civilian Castes
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Comstar HPG Lost
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Apologies 8)
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Question for the Falcons: has anyone used a Wakizashi on the table (or MM) and if so how’d it do?
And secondly: anyone have the actual IWM mini and how well does it look assembled?
Trying to assemble a Falcon Trinary and filling out the Assault Star.
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Question for the Falcons: has anyone used a Wakizashi on the table (or MM) and if so how’d it do?
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-articles/mech-of-the-week-wakizashi/msg1370473/#msg1370473 (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-articles/mech-of-the-week-wakizashi/msg1370473/#msg1370473)
Moonsword’s review is about right. The Wakizashi is a little light on firepower at range, and there’s modern Clan heavy cav out there that can keep the range open while outgunning (if not outpunching) the Wakizashi. But in restricted terrain, on smaller mapboards, or against slow/stationary opponents where the Wakizashi can bring its LB 20-X and ER Mediums to bear, it has the survivability (SFE and max armor), jump jets, and freezers (can alpha strike without negative heat effects but you’ll usually leave one ER Medium out) to cripple/destroy opponents. If you can make a Stalker work, you’ll definitely be able to make a Wakizashi work.
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What is everyone's thoughts on the new Stormbird BA? It appeared on the MUL today. I've been waiting for the AS stats for this unit. It's XMEC ability is fantastic. I can mount it on all the non omni units.
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Very important now that the Falcons use so many normal Mechs. I really appreciate the unique feel the Stormbird has.
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It’s a beefier Fire Resistant Elemental, that’s a little slower but can mechanize on anything.
Losing its TMM doesn’t feel great, but an extra one doesn’t hurt it too much in AS and keeps it cheaper than the FR Elemental.
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It’s a beefier Fire Resistant Elemental, that’s a little slower but can mechanize on anything.
I dunno, in my opinion the disparity in missile armament (reloads, anyway) really changes the feel between the two.
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XMEC is magic, but I see the limited movement of the Stormbird doesn't look as useful as say the Fa Shih, or magnetic Longinus does.
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To me, it's a replacement for the Gnome, with the capabilities being different, but roughly equivalent.
Speed is exactly the same, with the addition of XMEC.
You lose a few points of armor, but gain fire resistance.
The APGR loses a couple points of damage, but gains in range and antipersonnel damage.
The SRM rack loses range, but gains raw damage, ammo, and inferno capability.
These are the suits that complement Eyries, Gyrfalcons, and Shrikes, while the newer Omnis stick to Elementals and Rabids, and Ironholds travel via Mk.VII-Cs. >:D
EDIT: Hell, the BV is almost exactly the same, with a Stormbird Point only costing 6 more BV than a Gnome Point. That's not 6bv per suit, that's for the whole squad.
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Ironholds travel in what now?
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Ironholds travel in what now?
Mk VII-C Landing Craft from 3057r. It moves at the speed of Aero, can land vertically, has the armor to survive contested airspace, the guns to deal with light(and some medium) fighters, the cargo space to carry six full Points(three if you use the TacOps weights), and thanks to BADCs, can air drop any battlesuit in existence.
Oh, and between the IS and Clan models, they're universally available. :)
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What is everyone's thoughts on the new Stormbird BA? It appeared on the MUL today. I've been waiting for the AS stats for this unit. It's XMEC ability is fantastic. I can mount it on all the non omni units.
It must also be said: the art is sexy as hell!
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So, what Falcon 2nd-line mechs would be good for playing taxi to it?
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So, what Falcon 2nd-line mechs would be good for playing taxi to it?
It adds about 50% more armor to the Eyrie. And it covers infantry which it can’t do. Although they’ll cover up the ER lasers, in classic anyway. In AS you lose distance, but don’t change your TMM so it’s still pretty annoying to hit the carrier.
The Gyrfalcon can carry them to reinforce its sniping position, and nothing will be blocked in classic. In AS it’s probably better in the role, it can harass at medium range, and drop the kids off, which can (through the magic of conversion) add on some significant damage. They have just enough armor to not be one shot.
Warhammer C3 isn’t bad, anyone who tries to close will suffer, although with them attached it’s best to be sniper until you drop them.
All the assaults basically can’t deal with infantry/BA in classic, and have large enough damage values that they shouldn’t want to in AS. But they’d all be pretty slow with BA attached. Imo they’d be best served with those types of mechs as being a ambusher/flanker deterrent
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It may just be where the gap exists in Jiyi’s warrior caste demographics. If Malvina took all the Falcon sibkin old enough to fight with her to Terra to get them blooded and boost her manpower (the Falcons did this at Coventry last century), then there may be a hole in the Jiyi’s teenage warrior caste population but not in the age groups on either side. He has freebirths, solahma, dezgra, and test-downs above, say, 18 years of age. And he may have trueborn sibkin below, say, 13 years of age. But Jiyi may have no warrior caste in between, which leaves his touman vulnerable if it takes a beating and there’s no one old enough to test out and replace casualties. So Jiyi decided to requisition at gunpoint some teenage abtakha sibkin from the Bears (or Horses).
This is part of the reasoning, but more so it that Jiyi determined that trialing for sibkos would cost him less than trialing for full warriors. I don't remember what made it into Tamar Rising, but my idea was that Jiyi promised that every one of the sibkin he took would serve as warriors. There would be no testing down or washing out to a lower caste. Passing their ToP would put them into their branch of service, but failing it meant simply reassignment to infantry instead of a lower caste. Knowing that they would hold warrior status no matter what the outcome of their ToP goes a long way to ensuring the loyalty of the ones worried about their skills.
Jiyi also admired the sense of family that the Ghost Bears had. He spent a lot of time in the Dominion aboard his VaultShip. He wanted that strength for his Falcons. Grabbing sibkin raised in the Bear way, then training them in Falcon tactics is easier than getting adult Bear warriors set in their ways.
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So, what Falcon 2nd-line mechs would be good for playing taxi to it?
If you're looking for something fast to forward-deploy them, Locust IICs or Roadrunners(if any are left) would do the trick. Spirits are a little slower, but like the Locust they pack heavy close-range firepower, so they can put hurt into any threats in the immediate drop-off area.
Another approach is to pair them with big snipers like the Kraken. They can ride on the big mech until it gets to its desired firing position, then drop off and advance under their own power, forming an advance line of defense for your support mechs.
Don't forget that XMEC means you can ride vees as well. Nacons and Kites! >:D
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Not to sound like a rube, but what's a Stormbird? New BA from where?
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Not to sound like a rube, but what's a Stormbird? New BA from where?
It's from one of the newer RecGuides. 30, IIRC?
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Yeah, RG30. It just hit the MUL
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Jade Hawk would be great too -- especially the configs that have to charge in close anyway.
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This is part of the reasoning, but more so it that Jiyi determined that trialing for sibkos would cost him less than trialing for full warriors. I don't remember what made it into Tamar Rising, but my idea was that Jiyi promised that every one of the sibkin he took would serve as warriors. There would be no testing down or washing out to a lower caste. Passing their ToP would put them into their branch of service, but failing it meant simply reassignment to infantry instead of a lower caste. Knowing that they would hold warrior status no matter what the outcome of their ToP goes a long way to ensuring the loyalty of the ones worried about their skills.
Yeah, at least some of that made it into the book. I remember the line about him promising all of them guaranteed warrior status regardless of whether or not they passed their ToP.
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It's from one of the newer RecGuides. 30, IIRC?
Yeah, RG30. It just hit the MUL
Found it. My thanks to you both.
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This is part of the reasoning, but more so it that Jiyi determined that trialing for sibkos would cost him less than trialing for full warriors. I don't remember what made it into Tamar Rising, but my idea was that Jiyi promised that every one of the sibkin he took would serve as warriors. There would be no testing down or washing out to a lower caste. Passing their ToP would put them into their branch of service, but failing it meant simply reassignment to infantry instead of a lower caste. Knowing that they would hold warrior status no matter what the outcome of their ToP goes a long way to ensuring the loyalty of the ones worried about their skills.
Jiyi also admired the sense of family that the Ghost Bears had. He spent a lot of time in the Dominion aboard his VaultShip. He wanted that strength for his Falcons. Grabbing sibkin raised in the Bear way, then training them in Falcon tactics is easier than getting adult Bear warriors set in their ways.
From Tamar Rising, pg 54
As Jade Falcons, they would all be warriors, for even if they failed their Trial of Position, he would allow them a place among his conventional infantry forces.
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There it is. I'm never sure what gets cut and what makes it in because I rarely reread the things I write, unless I need to for research. I find it a bit...self indulgent. I am glad that I was able to work into Dominions Divided one of my plot hooks that got cut from Tamar Rising for word count. Something for the role players out there: VaultShip Epsilon is missing.
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There it is. I'm never sure what gets cut and what makes it in because I rarely reread the things I write, unless I need to for research. I find it a bit...self indulgent. I am glad that I was able to work into Dominions Divided one of my plot hooks that got cut from Tamar Rising for word count. Something for the role players out there: VaultShip Epsilon is missing.
Clearly the Wolverines took it…
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There it is. I'm never sure what gets cut and what makes it in because I rarely reread the things I write, unless I need to for research. I find it a bit...self indulgent. I am glad that I was able to work into Dominions Divided one of my plot hooks that got cut from Tamar Rising for word count. Something for the role players out there: VaultShip Epsilon is missing.
And from Pg 42 of Tamar Rising VaultShip Epsilon was originally assigned to Raven Alliance space
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And from Pg 42 of Tamar Rising VaultShip Epsilon was originally assigned to Raven Alliance space
Epsilon was one of the Merchant Caste (AML) controlled vault ships was it not?
Given the Ravens are rocking the Cameron Star, I can see them having grabbed it for the real Falcon's fighting under Alaric's banner.
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Epsilon was one of the Merchant Caste (AML) controlled vault ships was it not?
Given the Ravens are rocking the Cameron Star, I can see them having grabbed it for the real Falcon's fighting under Alaric's banner.
The original description was the AML had all except the on Jiyi was on, but Epsilon only had the one mention in Tamar Rising. We don't really know if it was AML-controlled, if it went independent, if someone else grabbed it, or what. Each VaultShip had a primary area for each of the Clans. Beta (Wolf) and Delta (Horses) had issues with those clans and returned to Falcon space. Alpha was Marena's ship in Falcon space. Jiyi's Gamma was in the Bear's space. Zeta dealt with the Foxes and was tasked with keeping things running smooth for the AML with the Foxes.
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Logically the Epsilon would be in the Raven Alliance space, no? But that is pretty far away, so one does wonder if it got recall orders...
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It got recalled, but is taking a detour to grab the Moment to Man. :)
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It got recalled, but is taking a detour to grab the Moment to Man. :)
They better hurry. I hear the Scorps' Seekers have their eyeballs on that! ;D
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There's been no indication yet of what's happened with Eagle Craft Group's mobile factories, has there?
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There's been no indication yet of what's happened with Eagle Craft Group's mobile factories, has there?
Didn't they move them to Erewhon?
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OK here's my thoughts on paper -- tryin' to straighten things out in my head ...
Jade Falcon Production (https://www.dropbox.com/s/bkjq6rj31zsepbi/cjf_factories_3150.pdf?dl=0)
I'm all ears re: any errors / omissions.
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OK here's my thoughts on paper -- tryin' to straighten things out in my head ...
Jade Falcon Production (https://www.dropbox.com/s/bkjq6rj31zsepbi/cjf_factories_3150.pdf?dl=0)
I'm all ears re: any errors / omissions.
I wonder what, if any, technical capacity the Terran Falcons are going to have to rebuild their forces, or if they are just going to have scrape off getting salvage vis-a-vis the Sea Foxes...
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I wonder what, if any, technical capacity the Terran Falcons are going to have to rebuild their forces, or if they are just going to have scrape off getting salvage vis-a-vis the Sea Foxes...
I mean there is no way the JF remnants have enough pilots for the mechs they are pumping out, I assume the JF area Foxes trade some of that production to the Terran Foxes, who can get it to where they want. they’ll just float the cost until it’s (a bad) time to collect.
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I wonder what, if any, technical capacity the Terran Falcons are going to have to rebuild their forces, or if they are just going to have scrape off getting salvage vis-a-vis the Sea Foxes...
I mean there is no way the JF remnants have enough pilots for the mechs they are pumping out, I assume the JF area Foxes trade some of that production to the Terran Foxes, who can get it to where they want. they’ll just float the cost until it’s (a bad) time to collect.
Terran Falcons have zero industrial capacity and effectively no money since AML and Jiyi functionally seized the major assets they’d borrow against. They would have their technician caste that came with pretty intact.
And correct me if I’m wrong, but the losers of a trial don’t typically get any salvage rights.
So basically, until Terran Falcons can secure their own industrial capacity, they are at the whim of Alaric. That being said, in HotW, Alaric seemed to have some plans for them and Wolves are sitting on several thousand salvageable mechs. I don’t see him being stingy with getting them assets at first. I have to imagine Chistu is going to look to secure some form of manufacturing to secure her clan’s survival.
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The 'Golden Talons' Star in Chaos Theory that comes with the AS boxset aren't wanting for quality equipment in the least, including a Warhawk C, which by 3152 has to be a unicorn anywhere that isn't Scorpion territory. So it seems as if Alaric is proving somewhat generous with what the Falcons are rebuilt with.
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The 'Golden Talons' Star in Chaos Theory that comes with the AS boxset aren't wanting for quality equipment in the least, including a Warhawk C, which by 3152 has to be a unicorn anywhere that isn't Scorpion territory. So it seems as if Alaric is proving somewhat generous with what the Falcons are rebuilt with.
Given that he is molding them to serve as the de facto Royal Black Watch for his new Star League, I assumed he wasn't going to just leave them hanging.
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No, I would think he wouldn't either, but I was impressed that a unit in the middle of nowhere in Caph's jungles would have what they did and not a bunch of IICs or RAF salvage. And considering how vindictive Alaric's 'mom' was... ^-^
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The big question mark is where are Eagle Craft Group's mobile factories?
Did the Horses get one or all of them? Marena? Jiyi? Alaric/Stephanie?
Are some unclaimed -- trying to run back 'Falcon' space with Jiyi, Marena, Alaric, and the Sea Foxes all trying to grab them?
Who knows ...
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I think Alaric's lplan is to use the Jade Falcons as a "look, see, this isn't JUST clan wolf, the star league is about all clans, look how generous I am with my defeated foes"
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So we're the new Stone Lions? :)
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I think Alaric's lplan is to use the Jade Falcons as a "look, see, this isn't JUST clan wolf, the star league is about all clans, look how generous I am with my defeated foes"
Kind of a silly plan, considering the Clans (minus the Horses) already acknowledged him as ilKhan and are more or less already on board with his Star League. Who would this be for the benefit of, the Houses that he's already publicly stated he plans to replace with said Clans?
So we're the new Stone Lions? :)
If anyone is that, it's the Jaguars.
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Has it ever been said where the Falcon version of the Jade Hawk is/was produced? Was curious if Jiyi has lost it ...
Finally stumbled across an answer in Shrapnel 10 ('Dynamic Ordnance and Ammunition, 20-Year Market Assessment' by Stephen Toropov).
Looks like production is on Sudeten.
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No, I would think he wouldn't either, but I was impressed that a unit in the middle of nowhere in Caph's jungles would have what they did and not a bunch of IICs or RAF salvage. And considering how vindictive Alaric's 'mom' was... ^-^
He saved the vindictiveness for the Dragoons. He needs the Falcons too much (right now) to give them second line or IS salvage but that they're even hanging out in the middle of nowhere in Caph's jungles is interesting.
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Looks around.. yeah, this should be the right spot for posting this (I think..)
Currently assembling a Clan Jade Falcon Light Garrison Star (using AS Security Lance requirements).
Provisional Garrison Cluster (tbd) in the Jade Falcon Occupation Zone (pre-Refusal War)
Candidates so far : Howler, Locust IIC, Incubus.
Which other Mechs would fit (fluff- and synergy-wise) ?
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Urbanmech IIC?
Depends if you're limited to new-style minis, or can pick up metals from IWM. Stinger IIC, Wyvern IIC?
Alternatively, it's a garriscum star - maybe something picked up as battle salvage elsewhere, and dropped down the varsity list - Inner Sphere refits like a Rifleman C?
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Evening (local time) Worktroll,
For the moment, I'm looking into the nuplastics only (hence my three candidates, taking into account the upcoming Mercs KS).
Would Star League Mechs (such as a Mongoose) be appropriate for a PGC ?
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Heck yeah! Just refreshing myself on the Security Lance criteria - one Scout or Striker, and one Missile Boat or Sniper, IIRC.
Using base configs, you've got Howler (Missile Boat), Locust IIC (Striker), and Incubus (Striker), so you're fully conformal as is, and can add any two you like.
Checking the MUL, Clan Invasion era, I'm seeing:
* Piranha, for that MG spam
* Locust C - inner sphere refit, use the IS mini
* MOngoose, certainly
* Sentinel 3L (another from the Brian Caches)
After that it starts getting a bit heavy.
Would you consider having the Star commander in a Peregrine, or even a Kit Fox? Ageing warrior hanging onto his old Omni, because the Kit Fox is both very Falcon-ish, and not really the best thing against other Clan designs, but pretty butch for solahma?
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You could use the Royal Mongoose, or if you really wanted to spice things up you could have it be the last Mongoose C in existence.
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Aff. Security Lance requirements : 1 Scout/Striker + 1 Sniper/Missile Boat, max. 1 Size 4 Mech.
I had the Kit Fox on my list as well, but was hesitant as PGCs are not noted for having Omnis in their line-up.
So : Locust IIC, Howler, Incubus, Mongoose (either C or 66b) and Star Commander in Kit Fox or Peregrine..
Thanks for the input !
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Always a pleasure, trothkin!
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Every time I see the word 'trothkin', my mental image is of the heads of the Three Stooges, rising slowly out of the water of a horses' trough.
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Wise guy, eh?
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Was poking around the 'ForcePack Wishlist' thread and was trying to flesh out a novel Falcon one.
There are a few very obvious themes for a Falcon pack ... but what about an odd angle: Alpha Galaxy Pack
Jupiter
Bane 3
Pinion
Spirit
Crimson Hawk
Anything that would be a better fit than one or more of those?
** EDIT **
One issue I myself have right off the bat is the Pinion. A unique machine that would be interesting to have a redesign, yes, but the TRO says ‘... designed primarily for patrol and guard deployments ...’ so perhaps not too many would have been posted to Alpha.
Perhaps a tweaked and re-posed Rifleman, BattleMaster, or Rifleman IIc that were coming off the Red Devil line would be a better fit.
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Jupiter & Bane play well together, not so well with the lighter others. Depends how you want to swing: based on the Jihad-era lists (time of Alpha's re-formation), I get:
Heavy: Jupiter, Bane, Marauder IIC, Viper, Flamberge
Light: Pinion, Spirit, Crimson Hawk, Jenner IIC, Clint IIC
YMMV, of course.
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I think the Marauder IIc 5 would work fine -- coming out of Olivetti in 3070.
Black Python works -- really any pertinent design salvaged from the Vipers could be shoveled Alpha's way. Though I was trying to keep the pack more 'falcony'.
The Flamberge is a bit late for Alpha's short ride of glory, and I think it would be a cold day in hell before they got a shiny, new Omni like that.
What about the Shadow Cat II? It would be late as well, but not an unreasonable choice timeline-wise.
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I tend to think of the non-Omni Flamberge more, but the Shadow Cat II is a solid choice.
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Im pretty ignorant concerning the Clans, beign a dirty Periperic and all, but i have to ask: Is there a source that explain the organization of the 3145 CJF Cluster types? (Jaeger, Hussar, Dragoon, etc).
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Unfortunately, no, there is not.
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Those names are similar to what the scorpions use.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Imperio_Militar_del_Escorpión
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Star Adders, too, and the Adders actually do define those Cluster types.
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Both formation types (Hussar and Jaeger) are described as "lighter", so we can at lease infere something like Husars beign fast long range light/medium/Heavy mechs and Jaeger something like light/medium scouts/harrasers?
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After doing a little digging for you, I think the only way to determine what some of these Cluster types are is to refer to the original JFSB and look at the breakdowns for those Cluster types. The Falcons have a variety of Star types and these Clusters are listed in there with their Star make-ups. And even that's dicey, because we just don't get the same level of detail now that we did then.
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It really disappointed me that there are Jade Falcon clusters with Dragoon in their name. With all the time the Falcons have spent fighting the Wolf's Dragoons, you would think that wouldn't be a very popular naming scheme. I felt that the Falcon clusters lost a lot of thier personality with the units names in FM 3145 compared to the cluster names from the Clan invasion era.
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It really disappointed me that there are Jade Falcon clusters with Dragoon in their name. With all the time the Falcons have spent fighting the Wolf's Dragoons, you would think that wouldn't be a very popular naming scheme. I felt that the Falcon clusters lost a lot of thier personality with the units names in FM 3145 compared to the cluster names from the Clan invasion era.
The Falcons had several instances of Dragoon Clusters well before 3145. I don't think they give much of a damn.
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Hell, several of their Dragoon clusters are probably older than the Dragoon Compromise, and Falcon units with that much history are damn well not gonna change their names just because a bunch of no-name freebirths got let off their leash and predictably went native! >:D
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It’s a fairly common designator for Calvary type units.
That’s a very pedantic and silly thing to say.
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It’s a fairly common designator for Calvary type units.
That’s a very pedantic and silly thing to say.
You know you can relay that information without being rude to him, right?
And is it really that silly anyway? The Falcons have a long and glorious history of being petty, especially when it comes to the Wolves. I get exactly where he's coming from.
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Hell, several of their Dragoon clusters are probably older than the Dragoon Compromise, and Falcon units with that much history are damn well not gonna change their names just because a bunch of no-name freebirths got let off their leash and predictably went native! >:D
Flip side, there are probably no Falcons units left with the dragoon moniker by 3152. Some may get reestablished.
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Flip side, there are probably no Falcons units left with the dragoon moniker by 3152. Some may get reestablished.
True -- only one unit designation left: Sentinels.
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And that's the Sudeten Falcons, we know literally nothing about the SLDF Falcons on Terra.
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And that's the Sudeten Falcons, we know literally nothing about the SLDF Falcons on Terra.
We know at least one little nugget: the Falcons had that 'Gold Talons' Star on Caph. Nothing that that's terribly substantial, but it's a lil' somethin'.
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We know at least one little nugget: the Falcons had that 'Gold Talons' Star on Caph. Nothing that that's terribly substantial, but it's a lil' somethin'.
I dont have the time (or the need really) but someone theoretically could put together a list of potential surviving Falcon units at Terra. You’d have to go thru IlClan or Hour of the Wolf with a fine toothed comb and make some broad generalizations and inferences but you could piece together something.
Like for example: the 1st Falcon Jaegers were destroyed with the exception of two warriors Star Colonel Khalus Pryde and Star Captain Archer Pryde. Khalus Pryde became SaKhan so I doubt he’d stick with the same (destroyed) Cluster and instead take a Keshik or Galaxy command. Star Captain Pryde could theoretically challenge to rebuild the 1st Falcon Jaegers as a new Star Colonel. I personally doubt that would happen and instead they’d consolidate the remaining Falcons into one ad-hoc Galaxy more paper than anything. Picking thru FM 3145 for names of surviving officers, and then Clusters/units destroyed in the IlClan book could give you a rough estimate on which Clusters MIGHT be rebuilt
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In Hour of the Wolf, it's stated by Stephanie Chistu that there were 128 Jade Falcon warriors that survived the ilClan Trial. Some were Elementals, but even if they were all MechWarriors, that would leave 8 Trinaries plus 3 more individuals. So you are talking less than 2 Clusters worth of warriors that survived.
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In Hour of the Wolf, it's stated by Stephanie Chistu that there were 128 Jade Falcon warriors that survived the ilClan Trial. Some were Elementals, but even if they were all MechWarriors, that would leave 8 Trinaries plus 3 more individuals. So you are talking less than 2 Clusters worth of warriors that survived.
Exactly. But you know paper formations and all they could stretch that to a full Galaxy easily. And then you go into a DEEP discussion on which units should be recreated first.
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I've been saying for awhile the falcons only logical rebuilding approuch is to declare everyone who survived, by virtue of surviving, is worthy of a bloodname, and basicly rebuild the clan from the ground up using the genetic stock of the survivors. they could by 3070 reasonably expect to be up to maybe 3 galaxies.
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I've been saying for awhile the falcons only logical rebuilding approuch is to declare everyone who survived, by virtue of surviving, is worthy of a bloodname, and basicly rebuild the clan from the ground up using the genetic stock of the survivors. they could by 3070 reasonably expect to be up to maybe 3 galaxies.
It would be very abbreviated trials (similar to the Jaguars) and the IlKhan would probable declare not to the death. But I could see it. I’d see their size issues (along with the Jaguars) mirroring the Coyotes and Stone Lions.
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Ultimately you have to also ask how much is Alaric going to invest in the Falcons. Yes they could rebuild and expand but only on the idea they have the resources to do it.
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Ultimately you have to also ask how much is Alaric going to invest in the Falcons. Yes they could rebuild and expand but only on the idea they have the resources to do it.
It would be serious incompetence on Stephanie Chistu ‘s part - even if she is fully behind Alaric - to not try to secure a supply of equipment and people independent of Alaric’s grace.
My gut right now says Caph will be it. I think Martinson and Skobel are there, which gives them a supply of machines. A fresh supply of people is an entirely different and much more severe challenge
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It would be serious incompetence on Stephanie Chistu ‘s part - even if she is fully behind Alaric - to not try to secure a supply of equipment and people independent of Alaric’s grace.
It would be incompetent not to try, but success is dependent on factors that may be out of her hands.
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It would be incompetent not to try, but success is dependent on factors that may be out of her hands.
If the wolf empire and Falcon remnants can survive despite existing, she should be just fine in this request
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As far as the Black Watch Falcons go, it should be remembered that Alaric specifically wants to keep them small. So, I'm guessing a Galaxy. Maybe two, but no more. And if the Khan tries to rebuild beyond that, I can see Alaric intervening. I'm pretty sure he sees his former rivals serving as his bodyguards as a sort of trophy. The last thing he wants is for them to grow big enough to challenge him. It's probably why he rejected the Bears vote. He figured it would be better that the go to civil war and weaken themselves than remain powerful but without absolute support.
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Alaric might not want the falcons to get too powerful, but at the same time depending on how they play the long game (and Stephenie Christu has been shown to have some skill at that) could influence that
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As far as the Black Watch Falcons go, it should be remembered that Alaric specifically wants to keep them small. So, I'm guessing a Galaxy. Maybe two, but no more. And if the Khan tries to rebuild beyond that, I can see Alaric intervening. I'm pretty sure he sees his former rivals serving as his bodyguards as a sort of trophy. The last thing he wants is for them to grow big enough to challenge him. It's probably why he rejected the Bears vote. He figured it would be better that the go to civil war and weaken themselves than remain powerful but without absolute support.
Falcons building up to two galaxies begs the question of “who” the reinforcements are. Terran Falcons should be cut off from their sibkos. There should be a lot of Falcon technicians and Warship crews to draw from, but that would mean a lot of mediocre troops. Alaric wants an elite honor guard, right?
Devs can write whatever answer they want. Just seems like there aren’t any good options. And given the staggering losses the Terran Falcons took, there shouldn’t be an easy option.
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Yeah. I don't see them building to two Galaxies anytime soon. More of a max for them.
But it even gets worse the more you think about it. They likely don't have the access to the materials they need to make new sibkos. I suspect Hazen left the scientists behind since a geneticist wouldn't help very much for the war effort. I think there are four options for the Alaric's Falcons.
1. Do what I assume Hazen planned and just slip back to the Falcon OZ and collect the sibkos and everything else the need for the materials. Jiyi is already there doing this. And as a general rule, I assume any nearby power that knows a sibko is there will destroy it upon taking the planet (not saying they'll kill the children, just stop the sibko from operating or turn it for their use like the Falcon merchants did).
2. Rely on whatever Alaric and the Wolves give them for materials (scientist caste, iron wombs, etc.) and use genetic material from the warriors on Terra. This idea is also kinda screwed because Alaric made the same mistake of leaving Wolf sibkos behind. Best case scenario still has them losing plenty of sibkos by the neighbors moving in on the Wolf Empire (and the Dragoons who see it as a 2-for-1 special of rebuilding their forces and screwing over Clan Wolf). Worst case, the Wolf Empire becomes independant or completely collapses from outside assaults. Personally, after Redemption Rites, I could see it going either way.
3. Recruit from anywhere and everywhere like the Black Watch of old. I kinda think this is what Alaric is hoping for. Handing over Tara feels like a soft push in that direction. It would be best for him. It gets him the most elite bodyguards regardless of where they are born instead of relying on the Clan Jade Falcon scientist caste. It also creates a greater sense of loyalty to him rather than a Clan Jade Falcon. Someone from the Draconis Combine who works hard and proves to be one of the best in the Inner Sphere who join Clan Jade Falcon to serve the ilKhan is going to have more loyalty to the ilKhan overall than Clan jade Falcon. The only question is will Stephanie try to subvert this and how with still maintaining loyalty.
4. Probably the least likely overall (though maybe specific characters), say screw Alaric and go join Jiyi. Though I don't see this happening with out some sort of major betrayal by Alaric. If only because it is probably the hardest to make interesting from a story perspective.
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2. Rely on whatever Alaric and the Wolves give them for materials (scientist caste, iron wombs, etc.) and use genetic material from the warriors on Terra. This idea is also kinda screwed because Alaric made the same mistake of leaving Wolf sibkos behind. Best case scenario still has them losing plenty of sibkos by the neighbors moving in on the Wolf Empire (and the Dragoons who see it as a 2-for-1 special of rebuilding their forces and screwing over Clan Wolf). Worst case, the Wolf Empire becomes independant or completely collapses from outside assaults. Personally, after Redemption Rites, I could see it going either way.
This also fails because there's a 15-18 year turnaround before a sibko becomes ready to graduate.
The other option you didn't mention would be to try to engage in Harvest Trials against some of the other Clans, but this seems unlikely.
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This also fails because there's a 15-18 year turnaround before a sibko becomes ready to graduate.
The other option you didn't mention would be to try to engage in Harvest Trials against some of the other Clans, but this seems unlikely.
True. I was thinking long term, but you're right. It's a little too long term without being paired up with another option.
I would consider the Harvest Trials a variant of option 3.
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This also fails because there's a 15-18 year turnaround before a sibko becomes ready to graduate.
The other option you didn't mention would be to try to engage in Harvest Trials against some of the other Clans, but this seems unlikely.
the time issue is definatly an issue but it's also, the only reasonable issue going forward. this applies for the wolves and jags as well. the clan forces holding Terra, essentially NEED 20 years of relitively low intensity combat at most to rebuild. If Alaric attempts anything but the most NESSCARILY actions he's going to have issues.
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While you don't just want to repeat everything that's been done before from a story standpoint, depending on how things go down with the Bears and Horses, especially if neither is joining the Star League soon, Harvest Trials v2.0 might actually work for Stephanie's Falcons.
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While you don't just want to repeat everything that's been done before from a story standpoint, depending on how things go down with the Bears and Horses, especially if neither is joining the Star League soon, Harvest Trials v2.0 might actually work for Stephanie's Falcons.
I mean it’s worked well for Jiyi so far. They could definitely raid the Horses with no interference from Alaric.
OTOH I would like to know their reaction to the new Falcon factions in the OZ.
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I think "how will the two falcon factions react to each other?" is such a burning question it'll need to be answered, and having the falcons return home to gather supplies and wage harvest trials vs the horses certainly seems a way to do it.
Fact is having Jiyi in charge of "the home front" while a sizable portion of the touman remains on terra isn't even the worst idea for the falcons if the falcons can agree on things.
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I'm going to be disappointed if Jiyi's response to the Terra Falcons is anything other than "get bent."
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I'm going to be disappointed if Jiyi's response to the Terra Falcons is anything other than "get bent."
Would 1000% feel the same.
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I'll third that notion. I want something new and interesting to develop out of Jiyi's Falcons so I can finally find a reason to like them.
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I'm going to be disappointed if Jiyi's response to the Terra Falcons is anything other than "get bent."
In my opinion:
If Stephanie asked he might consider it, if Alaric demanded “get bent” would be the short and polite version. However I think the two Falcon factions will forever be separated unless Alaric destroys the “Black Watch” Falcons and the remains go crawling back to the Clan OZ swearing revenge on the iClan.
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If we’re going to respect the Terran Falcons as anything other than a glorified Clan Wolf cluster, we need to see them take independent actions. Crawling to Jiyi doesn’t feel good as a new faction.
Harvest trials is an interesting idea, but the clans to choose from are less than ideal.
But please, please, please let us see new Khan Chistu making her own moves to secure a future. Especially something that puts Alaric’s hackles up. Like unauthorized strike to seize a planet for the falcons.
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I think the Terran Falcons and Jiyi's falcons relationship will, ULTIMATELY be one based off "real politic" Jiyi's status is a bit nebulous, he is, frankly, not the legal Khan of the clan this could potentially be an issue for him, intreastingly eneugh the Sea foxes actually set a precident for multiple Sakhans so it would be possiable for Jiyi to be given some political legitimacy. This of course presupposes he WANTS it.
but yeah I think IKEO is going to be really our first indication as to the Terran Falcons, if the intent is for them to be a viable faction in their own right we're going to need to see them taking action by themselves to secure their future.
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The flip side of how the relationship between Jiyi's Falcons and the Terra Falcons is that Jiyi's forces are made up of the cast offs and misfits that the "real" Falcons declared unworthy and deliberately abandoned. Even with a new, non-insane Khan calling the shots and the Mongols finally consigned to the graveyard where they belong, I don't expect that many of Jiyi's Falcons with significant favor or want to rejoin them.
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If we’re going to respect the Terran Falcons as anything other than a glorified Clan Wolf cluster, we need to see them take independent actions. Crawling to Jiyi doesn’t feel good as a new faction.
Harvest trials is an interesting idea, but the clans to choose from are less than ideal.
But please, please, please let us see new Khan Chistu making her own moves to secure a future. Especially something that puts Alaric’s hackles up. Like unauthorized strike to seize a planet for the falcons.
I don't think that is very likely. Alaric is going to keep them on a short leash and ready to destroy them if they are not loyal enough.
I think the Terran Falcons and Jiyi's falcons relationship will, ULTIMATELY be one based off "real politic" Jiyi's status is a bit nebulous, he is, frankly, not the legal Khan of the clan this could potentially be an issue for him, intreastingly eneugh the Sea foxes actually set a precident for multiple Sakhans so it would be possiable for Jiyi to be given some political legitimacy. This of course presupposes he WANTS it.
but yeah I think IKEO is going to be really our first indication as to the Terran Falcons, if the intent is for them to be a viable faction in their own right we're going to need to see them taking action by themselves to secure their future.
Except Church kinda brought up why the Black Watch Falcons why the Terran Falcons lack legitimacy. They're functionally a part of Clan Wolf. There's no precedence in Clan society of Clan becoming bodyguard to another Clan's Khan. It's all Jiyi needs to reject Stephanie's claim to the title of Khan and write them off as bondsman who are falsely still using the name Jade Falcon. And from there, it just depends on if the Clan supports Alaric or not. Horses hate Jiyi at the moment but will still likely consider the real Falcons just to spite Alaric (and there is the legitimate consideration of how much power the ilKhan has if he subjugate an entire Clan).
The Inner Sphere will just want to consider Clan Jade Falcon dead. However, when push comes to shove, they will almost certainly acknowledge the Jiyi's Falcons as the real Clan.
Ultimately, legitimacy will just be if you're with or against the ilClan. People with the new Star league can say that Jiyi's ascension without any other Bloodnamed warriors was questionable at best. People against the new Star League can point out how the Black Watch Falcons are essentially a part of Clan Wolf.
The flip side of how the relationship between Jiyi's Falcons and the Terra Falcons is that Jiyi's forces are made up of the cast offs and misfits that the "real" Falcons declared unworthy and deliberately abandoned. Even with a new, non-insane Khan calling the shots and the Mongols finally consigned to the graveyard where they belong, I don't expect that many of Jiyi's Falcons with significant favor or want to rejoin them.
You're right. And the Terran Falcons will likely look down on them for the fact. It does make an interesting dynamic.
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There is one thing that hasn't been considered: who has actually control of the genetic repositories of the Falcons? Did Malvina take those precious samples with her when she moved her entire touman to Terra? If not then the whole question is moot imho: the Terran Falcons are what 100 warriors strong? Would that even be enough to restart their iron womb protocols? If Jiyi's Falcons hold the genetic legacy of the Jade Falcons then theoretically he is the true Falon Clan
In regards to the "black Watch Falcons": there might also be another option to reinforce them: recruit the best members of the RAF. The Wolves did that during the IlClan trial (though from what I understand is that a good portion of the survivors told the Wolves to "get bent" once the trial was over). Harvest trials might be a good idea but let's consider which Clans are available: the Bears? They lost a third of their forces thanks to Alaric's insistence on "purity" and are also in a border war with the Combine. The Ravens? They never had strong / big ground forces to begin with and they also are engaged against the Suns and possibly the Combine. The Foxes? That might be diffcult given their disperesd nature. though perhaps recruiting strong single warriors (perhaps up to stars or binaries) might be feasible. Trained Clan soldiers come at a premium these days I'd say
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Except Church kinda brought up why the Black Watch Falcons why the Terran Falcons lack legitimacy. They're functionally a part of Clan Wolf. There's no precedence in Clan society of Clan becoming bodyguard to another Clan's Khan. It's all Jiyi needs to reject Stephanie's claim to the title of Khan and write them off as bondsman who are falsely still using the name Jade Falcon. And from there, it just depends on if the Clan supports Alaric or not. Horses hate Jiyi at the moment but will still likely consider the real Falcons just to spite Alaric (and there is the legitimate consideration of how much power the ilKhan has if he subjugate an entire Clan).
The Inner Sphere will just want to consider Clan Jade Falcon dead. However, when push comes to shove, they will almost certainly acknowledge the Jiyi's Falcons as the real Clan.
I'm not sure how the hell you got that from what Church said. Because what he said is that the jade falcons on terra will need to show some independance to be considered that. pretty sure he's talking both in universe and out.
you also don't seem to understand Alaric isn't just the Khan of clan Wolf, he's the ILKHAN the Khan of Khans. The "Supreme leader of the clans" very very differant animals.
And every clan except for maybe the hells horses reckongize Alaric's claim to the title (the ghost bears reckongize it, it was just in question weather or not they'd join him)
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I'm not sure how the hell you got that from what Church said. Because what he said is that the jade falcons on terra will need to show some independance to be considered that. pretty sure he's talking both in universe and out.
you also don't seem to understand Alaric isn't just the Khan of clan Wolf, he's the ILKHAN the Khan of Khans. The "Supreme leader of the clans" very very differant animals.
And every clan except for maybe the hells horses reckongize Alaric's claim to the title (the ghost bears reckongize it, it was just in question weather or not they'd join him)
I was speaking both in and out of universe. Right now I think of the Terran falcons as clan wolf clusters. But that’s because in HotW their very, very limited page time post Trial has them come off like they are chugging the Alaric koolaid. I’m expecting my opinion to change as I read ilKEO.
In regards to the "black Watch Falcons": there might also be another option to reinforce them: recruit the best members of the RAF.
The ex-RAF that are very well informed that Falcons were gleefully slaughtering their brethren to the last man at every opportunity? Feels like a dry well. Even though Chistu seems ready to turn a new page, it’s clear in HotW that there are Malvina adherents left. It only takes a couple of them still praying about Malvina to poison the well entirely.
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The ex-RAF that are very well informed that Falcons were gleefully slaughtering their brethren to the last man at every opportunity? Feels like a dry well. Even though Chistu seems ready to turn a new page, it’s clear in HotW that there are Malvina adherents left. It only takes a couple of them still praying about Malvina to poison the well entirely.
They also have Tara in their ranks. She might be a possible conduit for ex RAF members. But I agree the majority of the survivng RAF probably hate the Falcons with a passion after what they did to Terra and maybe even eager to emulate Japan.
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They also have Tara in their ranks. She might be a possible conduit for ex RAF members. But I agree the majority of the survivng RAF probably hate the Falcons with a passion after what they did to Terra and maybe even eager to emulate Japan.
I did consider Tara. I wrote her off as basically just bad writing and character assassination. I’m expecting better going forward.
But what is her sales pitch? “So after I dropped the ball and didn’t kill Alaric, I immediately enthusiastically defended the man who ended our Republic and our dream of a post-Succession Wars sphere. Hey, I only did that to stop the Mongol Falcons, which I’m now a part of. And yes, I’m asking you to join as well. Yes, you think I’m a traitor for switching sides multiple times. But the falcons really have changed! Just ignore the dozen people over there griping that they didn’t slaughter more of us. Hey guys, where are you going?”
I’m not really sold that ex-RAF are going to be join any clan on Terra. But especially not Falcons and nuJags.
But, I should posit my own ideas as well. Which… I got nothing. There’s zero good sources of high quality troops for the Terran Falcons. By every measure I can see, the only thing that makes them survive is avoiding losses or plot contrivance.
1) The wolves don’t have any spare troops.
2) Jags don’t have any either.
3) RAF sure as hell doesn’t want in with the Mongol Falcons and there probably isn’t convincing propaganda to flip their opinion.
4) A plot point of RotR/CoK/HotW was that Stone ran out of recruits to defend Terra. Falcons and Wolves finding a bunch on Terra would read like plot armor.
5) Harvest from the Bears, which is just a rehash of Jiyi.
6) Ravens are too far away save for the Khan’s bodyguard and it would look pretty sad if they dumpster the Raven’s best.
7) Horses are too far away
8) Harvest from Foxes might be their option. But that isn’t a sustainable choice. Eventually Foxes are gonna win one of those trials hard and Falcons have little room for error.
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I doubt the Horses would even consider a Harvest trial from "the lapdogs of that fake IlKhan surat Alaric" or something like that. They denounced the Wolves as Ilkhan so I assume they won't even bargain with anyone who is part of that.
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I’ll probably be proven wrong, but I assume Tara Campbell exists post-Republic as some bridge between the surviving former Mongol Falcons and whatever super-secret Black Watch society still exists within the Northwind Highlanders. Whether they’re called the Falcons, the Black Watch, Alaric’s Pet Bodyguards, or something else, I assume that the Falcons in that organization will be bolstered by Highlanders long enough (20-ish years minimum) that the Falcons can test out another trueborn generation or two.
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There is one thing that hasn't been considered: who has actually control of the genetic repositories of the Falcons? Did Malvina take those precious samples with her when she moved her entire touman to Terra? If not then the whole question is moot imho: the Terran Falcons are what 100 warriors strong? Would that even be enough to restart their iron womb protocols? If Jiyi's Falcons hold the genetic legacy of the Jade Falcons then theoretically he is the true Falon Clan
I just figure until we hear otherwise, Hazen left it where it was.
I'm not sure how the hell you got that from what Church said. Because what he said is that the jade falcons on terra will need to show some independance to be considered that. pretty sure he's talking both in universe and out.
you also don't seem to understand Alaric isn't just the Khan of clan Wolf, he's the ILKHAN the Khan of Khans. The "Supreme leader of the clans" very very differant animals.
And every clan except for maybe the hells horses reckongize Alaric's claim to the title (the ghost bears reckongize it, it was just in question weather or not they'd join him)
1. I was going off Church making the point that the Black Watch Falcons are essentially a part of Clan Wolf. Not suggesting any endorsement of the rest of my post.
2. No one quite knows what supreme leader of the Clans means. There's nothing saying he can essentially rule over another Clan like that. It gives Jiyi an argument which is all anyone who decides Alaric is the enemy needs. Mostly Inner Sphere right now, but that can change. Though Dominions Divided does point out that apparently the Ghost Bear cadets that Jiyi grabbed remain a point of contact, so the Bears apparently have some sort of diplomatic relations with them (ie they don't annihilate them outright or ignore them).
3. Alaric has his own legitimacy issues with Stone's assistant escaping and being able to spread the word that Stone rigged the trial help the Wolves win. Plus, he paid the Wolf's Dragoons 30 pieces of silver which means he did technically pay a mercenary unit to win him the ilClan.
4. Since out of universe was brought up, yeah. I don't consider the Terran Falcons to be the legitimate inheritors of Clan Jade Falcon. Nor do I consider Jiyi even though his Falcons are in a tie as my favorite faction in the ilKhan era. Basically, I consider it two competing factions who are making the claim. They both have some argument of why they should be considered the "real" Jade Falcons. Only time will tell which one will win.
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I doubt the Horses would even consider a Harvest trial from "the lapdogs of that fake IlKhan surat Alaric" or something like that. They denounced the Wolves as Ilkhan so I assume they won't even bargain with anyone who is part of that.
Horses won’t accept or acknowledge Falcons and Wolves (and probably jags) as honorable enough to warrant a trial. So yeah, harvest trials seem unlikely.
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I’ll probably be proven wrong, but I assume Tara Campbell exists post-Republic as some bridge between the surviving former Mongol Falcons and whatever super-secret Black Watch society still exists within the Northwind Highlanders. Whether they’re called the Falcons, the Black Watch, Alaric’s Pet Bodyguards, or something else, I assume that the Falcons in that organization will be bolstered by Highlanders long enough (20-ish years minimum) that the Falcons can test out another trueborn generation or two.
While possible, I just don’t see it. Clans never once (besides Nova Cats) respected any IS claim to any legitimate legacy from the Star League. Which, given they are descended from deserters… was always amusing.
You’re also assuming that a group made up of ex-RAF have any interest in cooperating with a group they see as civilian massacring lunatics who’s outreach to NWH is someone who sold out everything she stood for.
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The thing to remember with Harvest Trials is that they were not normal Trials of Possession. Vlad sneakily reminded the Home Clans that the only way they would see the Inner Sphere would be as part of one of the Invaders, then announced that he would initiate Trials of Possession for strong Crusader-minded units and warriors. This caused a wave of preemptive batchalls as Crusaders across all the Clans basically petitioned other Clans to take them in. It was a good way for Warden Clans to rid themselves of Crusader elements, an vice-versa in a few cases.
The dynamic in the ilClan era is totally different. Jiyi's trial against the Ghost Bears was not a Harvest, but a standard Trial of Possession, for the sibkos. Stephanie Chistu is unlikely to benefit from announcing Harvest Trials, either. Something else will have to be done.
Disclaimer: I am not working on anything for the Falcons, and have no knowledge of the plans for them. I'm just speculating as a fan.
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I'll echo the same disclaimer, but if the divisions in the Rasalhague Dominion continue I could see harvest trials working on the Bears that want to join the ilClan. Dominions Divided showed us some on both sides of the Dominion were willing to take it to combat to defeat their opponents, why not just take a different way to get what you want.
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I am expecting a reconciliation and merging of the two Warrior led Falcon Factions, if not all three. The Terrain Falcons are thin, and probably going to be even thinner after IKEO, to the point that any losses are a full percentage point of their military strength. Jiyi's Falcons are basically being held together by the strength of his personality along. And we know from No Substitute for Victory that the Terrian Falcons are sending out forces to bring the old Falcon OZ and left behind Warriors back into the fold. The Terran Falcons aren't just forgetting about anyone who didn't make it to Terra. Both Stephanie and Jiyi should motivated enough to cooperate to what is left of their Clan and Tara probably doesn't care beyond keeping her prestige up in order to save the NHW from any sort of ilClan shenanigans. The three of them feel like a team that would figure out a way to "make it work."
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Hm. I’d forgotten about the solamha and other dregs that were left behind in the Falcon OZ. Though per HotW, there’s only a couple per planet. The one in novel was defended by two mechs.
So that’s not trivial numbers for Khan Chistu, but we’re talking what, a trinary or so at most within two jumps of Terra?
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I'll echo the same disclaimer, but if the divisions in the Rasalhague Dominion continue I could see harvest trials working on the Bears that want to join the ilClan. Dominions Divided showed us some on both sides of the Dominion were willing to take it to combat to defeat their opponents, why not just take a different way to get what you want.
I really hope the Dominion pulls together rather than splinters.
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Marena of the AML will definitely tell Alaric to shove it. Stephanie… less so but she has no reason to reintegrate with the Terran Falcons. It’s why she told Jiyi no to his proposal and instead made her own. Push comes to shove I think the two of them would mutually ally against the IlKhan and Terra… and probably the Terran Falcons as well. Also ironically the Malthus Syndicate would be a good ally too, which is funny.
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I'll echo the same disclaimer, but if the divisions in the Rasalhague Dominion continue I could see harvest trials working on the Bears that want to join the ilClan. Dominions Divided showed us some on both sides of the Dominion were willing to take it to combat to defeat their opponents, why not just take a different way to get what you want.
I think the current Bears are somewhat united. I can forsee a splintering though if they send forces to guard Terra while also fighting against the combine which might prompt the Horses to stampede through the Dominion. Remember Rasalhague is right next to New Oslo (Horses territory) and they lost a third of their forces.
The question is if the Falcon probes from Terra can even find any remaining Falcons. I would assume that several planets would stage uprisings once they realize their supposed terror is one or two Mechs strong. there were a couiple of examples in the Lyran hinterlands with several Falcons (mostly solahma or police from what I remember) being executed by raiders or rioters.
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To reach Jiyi, Terran clans have to go through Lyrans, Tamar Pact, or Bears.
Bears aren’t explicitly enemies, but end of DD has them as not friendly either. Not sure that’s a viable path to travel. Tamar and Lyrans would open fire without much provocation at this point.
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I'll echo the same disclaimer, but if the divisions in the Rasalhague Dominion continue I could see harvest trials working on the Bears that want to join the ilClan. Dominions Divided showed us some on both sides of the Dominion were willing to take it to combat to defeat their opponents, why not just take a different way to get what you want.
Hmm. Harvest Trials. Do I want to be harvested by the victorious Wolves, or by well, the Falcons. What do the Falcons even offer here? They are not even the only super special elite Star League sub-Clan. The victorious Jaguars are standing right over there. If either Falcon keeps pulling this move there will be reprisals. Neither is in a position to survive a polite "back off".
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The victorious Jaguars are standing right over there.
I didn't realize "victorious" was synonymous with "given a second life by fiat". :D
On a serious note, I'd love to see an in-universe reaction from the various surviving Clans on the Jaguars' resurrection.
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Hmm. Harvest Trials. Do I want to be harvested by the victorious Wolves, or by well, the Falcons. What do the Falcons even offer here? They are not even the only super special elite Star League sub-Clan. The victorious Jaguars are standing right over there. If either Falcon keeps pulling this move there will be reprisals. Neither is in a position to survive a polite "back off".
Neither have done so yet. They've taken bondsmen and Trials of Possession (ie normal Clan stuff), but nothing like a Harvest Trial has happened with either.
The Terran Falcons simply have their position which is actually a huge deal for the Star League obsessed Clans. Being one of the Black Watch should be a huge deal. Maybe not the immediate aftermath, I could it requiring a Trial to get into the Falcons where you have to win in order to get that right.
Jiyi has nothing to offer. He's stuck to normal Clan stuff. He probably can't get away with winning multiple sibkos at once again since the Bears and Horses are going to watch out for that.
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I didn't realize "victorious" was synonymous with "given a second life by fiat". :D
On a serious note, I'd love to see an in-universe reaction from the various surviving Clans on the Jaguars' resurrection.
Wolves: Okay, if Alaric said so
Terran Falcons:Okay, if Alaric said so
nuJags:Okay, if Alaric said so
Foxes: Do the nuJags have any money? No? Oh. Never mind
AML: Meh
Jiyi: not having enough people sucks, doesn’t it?
Horses: Ooh. More targets.
Spirit Cats: Hey man, when the whole ‘ilclan’ thing goes south, the protectorate is nice. We’ll get you a nice place here.
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Wolves: Okay, if Alaric said so
Terran Falcons:Okay, if Alaric said so
nuJags:Okay, if Alaric said so
Foxes: Do the nuJags have any money? No? Oh. Never mind
AML: Meh
Jiyi: not having enough people sucks, doesn’t it?
Horses: Ooh. More targets.
Spirit Cats: Hey man, when the whole ‘ilclan’ thing goes south, the protectorate is nice. We’ll get you a nice place here.
In-universe, not headcanon... and especially not your biased headcanon. :D
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I didn't realize "victorious" was synonymous with "given a second life by fiat". :D
On a serious note, I'd love to see an in-universe reaction from the various surviving Clans on the Jaguars' resurrection.
the Jags are a.. I don't wanna say problem, but a challange, as while they where brought back, I don;t think there was a plan for them (as I understand BLP basicly forced their ressurection through) and someone's going to figure out what to do with it
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While possible, I just don’t see it. Clans never once (besides Nova Cats) respected any IS claim to any legitimate legacy from the Star League
The Clans have never recognized the claims of the Great Houses, which turned their back on the Star League and dissolved it. Whatever the NWH Black Watch secret society was/is, it’s never been that.
Which, given they are descended from deserters… was always amusing.
The High Council (the Great Houses) dissolved the Star League in August 2781. Planning for Operation Exodus didn’t start until September 2784. By definition, the former SLDF could not desert a government that didn’t and refused to exist.
You’re also assuming that a group made up of ex-RAF have any interest in cooperating with a group they see as civilian massacring lunatics who’s outreach to NWH is someone who sold out everything she stood for.
The NWH have always been realistic and flexible in their allegiances, and Tara’s dad or grandpa or whatever was the captain of the Black Watch when that secret unit re-emerged at the outset of the Second Star League. Doesn’t mean that future products will pick it up, but the writing is on the wall.
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the Jags are a.. I don't wanna say problem, but a challange, as while they where brought back, I don;t think there was a plan for them (as I understand BLP basicly forced their ressurection through) and someone's going to figure out what to do with it
Well, if the primary author who wanted to use them is no long using them, they don't really need to be kept around.
They could do something, like discover a plot to assassinate the IlKhan in the same way that a canary discovers poison gas in a coal mine...
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Well, if the primary author who wanted to use them is no long using them, they don't really need to be kept around.
They could do something, like discover a plot to assassinate the IlKhan in the same way that a canary discovers poison gas in a coal mine...
Personally I;'d strongly oppose killing them off again in such a manner, I'm sure there are talented intelligent writers in battletech who could do something intreasting with them.
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Well, if the primary author who wanted to use them is no long using them, they don't really need to be kept around.
They could do something, like discover a plot to assassinate the IlKhan in the same way that a canary discovers poison gas in a coal mine...
We just had a faction die a needlessly stupid death because an author didn’t like them. As much as the nuJags’ existence is built on character Assassination and poorly thought out plot contrivances, they are going to have fans. There are people who are glad to see Jags back in any form or people who like the idea of this new clan. Killing them in a meaningless, dumb, or insulting manner is a bad idea.
Terran Falcons on the other hand, are actually expendable in a narrative sense. If they disappear, Jiyi’s group can carry the Falcon torch. Alaric’s Wolves are expendable thanks to the Empire. (Or Jiyi and Empire are expendable, it goes both ways). But the Jags are a unique group and if they go, it should be significant or meaningful.
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the Jags are a.. I don't wanna say problem, but a challange, as while they where brought back, I don;t think there was a plan for them (as I understand BLP basicly forced their ressurection through) and someone's going to figure out what to do with it
Touchy subject, but I find it hard to believe they were brought back only because one author wanted them back. The groundwork was there in the Jihad sourcebooks as well as in the dark age materials. It seems to me that the powers that be need to approve of authors ideas and plots before they go to print. Not arguing that the author was not shipping the plot, but I'm assuming the team was cool with the plot line.
If nothing else its interesting to see a faction that was hung out to dry at one point in time get a second chance. After the 4th Succession war books I would have never thought the CC would become an IS powerhouse later on in the timeline. (I know they were not destroyed to the extend the Jags were, but they were pretty bad off post 4th Succession War).
Having some smaller factions to root for is nice at times.........waiting on you Nova Cats in hiding. THAT is one plot line I'm salty about. Having the Nova Cats exit stage right with pretty much no coverage was not a favorite of mine.
It will be interesting to see where events lead once IKEO actually comes out. I'd pull for the Falcon factions combining (or at least 2 of the groups). Honestly my biggest worry approaching HOTW was the Falcons getting completely axed. Having them around as a faction keeps things interesting. Depending on how far the timeline goes in the next few years it would be cool to see tensions between the Wolves and Falcons heat up again. The addition of the Dragoons to the trial on Terra will always be there for a less-than-enthused rival of the Wolves to bring up.
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The nuJags, the Terran Falcons, and interestingly the Terran Wolves as distinct from their mother factions, and have been hanging out there for a while. I'd be more worried about the New Earth based Fidelis making it out of the up coming turmoil.
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Touchy subject, but I find it hard to believe they were brought back only because one author wanted them back. The groundwork was there in the Jihad sourcebooks as well as in the dark age materials. It seems to me that the powers that be need to approve of authors ideas and plots before they go to print. Not arguing that the author was not shipping the plot, but I'm assuming the team was cool with the plot line.
If nothing else its interesting to see a faction that was hung out to dry at one point in time get a second chance. After the 4th Succession war books I would have never thought the CC would become an IS powerhouse later on in the timeline. (I know they were not destroyed to the extend the Jags were, but they were pretty bad off post 4th Succession War).
I may have missed something, but I think only a single author touched the surviving jags. Feels like it was one guy who, thanks the the countless hours he’d put into developing the setting, getting to push a plot line he wanted and nobody really cared enough about to say no to.
I really can’t agree on the second chance thing. At least not as implemented. These nuJags surviving was intentionally undoing the capstone of an entire era to… add absolutely nothing to a new one. I don’t mean that bombastically. Im talking from the author’s words here. It was, at best, poorly thought out and reliant on character assassination to fulfill and requires serious suspension of disbelief to accept them as a viable faction. Tell me how a (probably) less than regiment strength faction with no territory or good way to get new people survives in an era where we expect their region of space to have a hell of a lot of fighting in.
Nonetheless, it’d be shitting on the fans of the faction to just kill them off now, so I hope whoever writes the next novels about Terra manages something interesting with them.
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I may have missed something, but I think only a single author touched the surviving jags. Feels like it was one guy who, thanks the the countless hours he’d put into developing the setting, getting to push a plot line he wanted and nobody really cared enough about to say no to.
You definitely missed something, because you keep running with this "the Jags being back is all BLP and no one cared enough to say no" like it's gospel without actually having any facts to support your claim.
It was, at best, poorly thought out and reliant on character assassination to fulfill and requires serious suspension of disbelief to accept them as a viable faction.Tell me how a (probably) less than regiment strength faction with no territory or good way to get new people survives in an era where we expect their region of space to have a hell of a lot of fighting in.
Maybe you should wait to see how the story actually unfolds? (To be fair, this forum is practically defined by its knee-jerk reaction to literally everything.)
Nonetheless, it’d be shitting on the fans of the faction to just kill them off now, so I hope whoever writes the next novels about Terra manages something interesting with them.
Meh, I'm a Smoke Jaguar fan, and killing the nuJags off wouldn't be "shitting on" me... or anyone else who doesn't take their fandom to unhealthy levels of obsession.
Now, can we please circle back to the Falcons instead of turning this into the umpteenth variation-except-not-because-it's-the-same-sour-grapes-every-time of BLP-is-the-worst-ever thread? It's not adding anything to the conversation except toxicity at this point.
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You definitely missed something, because you keep running with this "the Jags being back is all BLP and no one cared enough to say no" like it's gospel without actually having any facts to support your claim.
Maybe you should wait to see how the story actually unfolds? (To be fair, this forum is practically defined by its knee-jerk reaction to literally everything.)
Meh, I'm a Smoke Jaguar fan, and killing the nuJags off wouldn't be "shitting on" me... or anyone else who doesn't take their fandom to unhealthy levels of obsession.
Now, can we please circle back to the Falcons instead of turning this into the umpteenth variation-except-not-because-it's-the-same-sour-grapes-every-time of BLP-is-the-worst-ever thread? It's not adding anything to the conversation except toxicity at this point.
Even if supported as a plot line by a big percentage of TPTB, it is - for what’s written so far - a terrible plot line. One that can hopefullY be made interesting going forward
Still…
Going back round to falcons, I’m curious how much the Malvina Mongol supporting survivors will affect things. Will they congregate into a particularly problematic trinary that keeps going too far and keeps tarnishing the falcons attempts as a fresh image? Do they slowly get trial of grievanced for their bloodthirsty actions? Do they slowly, eventually fold into Khan Chistu’s new vision?
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I doubt we'll get much mention of the Mongol Falcons anymore. Which is fine by me, because with Malvina dead and with Stephanie "Generic-Stock-Falcon-Character-Except-With-Knives" Chistu in charge, I don't particularly care about the Falcons anymore one way or the other. Though I suppose I'm mildly interested in seeing what new form they take in the Star League, and the AMC at least is something different and interesting, especially for such an ultra-traditionalist Clan like the Falcons.
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Something to remember, while Blaine wrote the novel with the Jags returning and he wrote the Dark Age novel where the Fidelis appeared and were found to be Jaguar descendants, there have been at least 3 different management teams that had to approve their continued use. First was the WizKids team with Surrender Your Dreams. Second was the current team led by Ray that set forth this direction. Third was the Herb led team that wrote much of the in-between sourcebooks and could have written off the Jags if they wanted.
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Second was the current team led by Ray that set forth this direction. Third was the Herb led team that wrote much of the in-between sourcebooks and could have written off the Jags if they wanted.
Thank you for confirming something I suspected but didn't know for certain: that there was change in leadership (and direction) between the era of FM:3145 and other products (the in-between that you mentioned) and the current era. It definitely shows in some of the changes in direction I've noticed, but having it actually confirmed is nice because it helps account for a lot of the inconsistencies.
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Something to remember, while Blaine wrote the novel with the Jags returning and he wrote the Dark Age novel where the Fidelis appeared and were found to be Jaguar descendants, there have been at least 3 different management teams that had to approve their continued use. First was the WizKids team with Surrender Your Dreams. Second was the current team led by Ray that set forth this direction. Third was the Herb led team that wrote much of the in-between sourcebooks and could have written off the Jags if they wanted.
Minor nitpick. We would know three management teams approved of the Fidelis storyline. In the decanonized ending of Surrender Your Dreams, they were loyal until the end of the Republic's most dire time, then released for they’d finally received a chance to return the favor to Stone.
Only most recently did that story right angle with no real warning during Rock of the Republic.
Okay. I’m done.
Back to falcons: if they are making moves and taking their own world near Terra, who’s betting on which one?
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Northwind.
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I think it's still a pretty big "if" on the Falcons taking any world for themselves, given their new purpose.
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Something to remember, while Blaine wrote the novel with the Jags returning and he wrote the Dark Age novel where the Fidelis appeared and were found to be Jaguar descendants, there have been at least 3 different management teams that had to approve their continued use. First was the WizKids team with Surrender Your Dreams. Second was the current team led by Ray that set forth this direction. Third was the Herb led team that wrote much of the in-between sourcebooks and could have written off the Jags if they wanted.
You grossly underestimate the authority the Line Developer's authority if you think Ray or I had any power to change plans laid down by WizKids. I won't speak for Ray, but if I had my druthers, rest assured that the Jaguars would have stayed dead and gone. But then again, the Dragoons would also have been completely wiped out, Tamar would have joined the list of dead worlds, and the Carlyle bloodline would have ended at Tharkad. Of these things, only the demise of Alexander Carlyle was written into the timeline on my watch, but because there was no in-character way to bring it up "on screen", it was ripe for retconning the moment I was out of the Dev's chair.
So, yeah, don't think the Line Dev has the final say on the story; there are people above who can overrule them at any time.
- Herb
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So I got a random question for those more versed in Falcon and Dark Age lore: Elstars - what's up with that? I just stumbled upon the term and short description on sarna. Is that something that has come up in more than one story? Is it a new and established warrior gene type among the Falcons? Or was it a one-off thing that got quietly dropped?
Quoting the sarna definition for conveniences sake:
Elstars A thirty-second century (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Thirty-second_century) Genotype of Clan Warrior that was first introduced by the scientist caste of Clan Jade Falcon (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Clan_Jade_Falcon). It combined all three existing genotypes of Clan Warrior; MechWarrior, Elemental, and aerospace pilot. The resulting combination results in slightly shorter, large headed individuals who show superior reflexes and other abilities. Other Inner Sphere Clans have adopted the genotype as well. They are considered to be superior to typical Clan warrior, but also they are rarely used unless extreme situation are called for. The name of the genotype comes from term Elite Ristar
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You grossly underestimate the authority the Line Developer's authority if you think Ray or I had any power to change plans laid down by WizKids. I won't speak for Ray, but if I had my druthers, rest assured that the Jaguars would have stayed dead and gone. But then again, the Dragoons would also have been completely wiped out, Tamar would have joined the list of dead worlds, and the Carlyle bloodline would have ended at Tharkad. Of these things, only the demise of Alexander Carlyle was written into the timeline on my watch, but because there was no in-character way to bring it up "on screen", it was ripe for retconning the moment I was out of the Dev's chair.
So, yeah, don't think the Line Dev has the final say on the story; there are people above who can overrule them at any time.
- Herb
Interesting, thanks for that feedback Herb. I guess I misunderstood how all the planning and such went.
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So I got a random question for those more versed in Falcon and Dark Age lore: Elstars - what's up with that? I just stumbled upon the term and short description on sarna. Is that something that has come up in more than one story? Is it a new and established warrior gene type among the Falcons? Or was it a one-off thing that got quietly dropped?
That definition is kindasorta accurate, except they're not a combination of all phenotypes. Elstars are the result of the scientist caste "taking the gloves off" and actively modifying the human genome (as opposed to just selective breeding) in the breeding program to create warriors that are even more physically suited to their intended roles: aerospace pilots would have augmented cardiovascular systems and augmented skeletal frames to better withstand pressure/acceleration/microgravity, MechWarriors would have augmented combat reflexes and skulls reshaped for better neurohelmet interface, Elementals would have even more muscle mass and greater resistance to pain and injury, etc. Elstars would also look less human because of these more extreme genetic modifications. These programs are basically experimental at this point, and the elstars that do exist aren't warmly welcomed by their fellow warriors (whether because of their augmented nature, their appearance, or the general post-WoR Clan squeamishness with genetics), and as of right now, we've only had them talked about twice: once in Era Report 3145 and once in a novel (I can't remember which off the top of my head!). Unfortunately, this might have been dropped, but they do exist both in the fiction and in a sourcebook, so there ya go.
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Thanks, tassa, that clears things up!
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Thanks, tassa, that clears things up!
My pleasure! I always liked the Elstar concept and I'm hoping to see them again in some form.
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That definition is kindasorta accurate, except they're not a combination of all phenotypes. Elstars are the result of the scientist caste "taking the gloves off" and actively modifying the human genome (as opposed to just selective breeding) in the breeding program to create warriors that are even more physically suited to their intended roles: aerospace pilots would have augmented cardiovascular systems and augmented skeletal frames to better withstand pressure/acceleration/microgravity, MechWarriors would have augmented combat reflexes and skulls reshaped for better neurohelmet interface, Elementals would have even more muscle mass and greater resistance to pain and injury, etc. Elstars would also look less human because of these more extreme genetic modifications. These programs are basically experimental at this point, and the elstars that do exist aren't warmly welcomed by their fellow warriors (whether because of their augmented nature, their appearance, or the general post-WoR Clan squeamishness with genetics), and as of right now, we've only had them talked about twice: once in Era Report 3145 and once in a novel (I can't remember which off the top of my head!). Unfortunately, this might have been dropped, but they do exist both in the fiction and in a sourcebook, so there ya go.
They were mentioned in Heretic's Faith as existing in the Nova Cat Touman. A Star Colonel was informing Mystic Kisho she had several Elstars under her command.
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I am very much interested to learn more about AML and what is they deal as well as what Jiyi's Falcons are doing.
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I am very much interested to learn more about AML and what is they deal as well as what Jiyi's Falcons are doing.
AML = "Tamar Rising" Source book, plus a Shrapnel Story ?
Still awaiting more intel (fiction releases). Latest I have is, something about Khan Stephanie Chistu's Golden Keshik on Northwind / near Cappelan space? Khan Jiyi Chistu has almost gotten all of his "Ghost Falcons" up and running ("A Question of Survival" and a Shrapnel Story). Clan Jade Falcon space has a (on file) supported Cluster as Garrison, plus his pet mercs lol, hints there are more forces off book, besides Ghost Falcons, and he has sibko's running, being ready in 3 years ?. The question if they are officially together is in the wind, as at the end of "No Substitute for Victory" is that Star Colonel Baxter was making his way through Falcon Space, with message of the ilClan Trial, and obviously about Stephanie's Falcons
Horsies are angry and will likey make trouble for the AML and Jiyi, plus power projection near Terra ? IF they do, will AML and Jiyi have a loose alliance, as they will take the brunt, if the ponnies decide to push for the Hinterlands.
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Side note on Protos from another topic.
Had this idea more as a joke as to why CJF quickly abandoned Proto's early, while many others, persevered through first generation, and now up to date, they can be quite effective.
Etine Balzac was head of Scientist Caste during the Society's uprising/insurrection, and (he was one of the most prominent?) leaders of The Society, so he purposely sabotaged results and tech of the first Falcon Protomech testings, so they would discard the programme quickly, allowing him later access.
Fast forward to ilClan, will Falcons employ Proto's ?
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Fast forward to ilClan, will Falcons employ Proto's ?
That would make for an interesting contrast to the IlClan Falcons. That being said, I think it very unlikely given that the whole point of Protomechs is resource scarcity and Jiyi's Falcons are swimming in industrial output (so much so that they struggle to fill the available 'Mechs with pilots).
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Etine Balzac was head of Scientist Caste during the Society's uprising/insurrection, and (he was one of the most prominent?) leaders of The Society, so he purposely sabotaged results and tech of the first Falcon Protomech testings, so they would discard the programme quickly, allowing him later access.
This is more or less what actually happened. ;)
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That would make for an interesting contrast to the IlClan Falcons. That being said, I think it very unlikely given that the whole point of Protomechs is resource scarcity and Jiyi's Falcons are swimming in industrial output (so much so that they struggle to fill the available 'Mechs with pilots).
Yeah, ProtoMechs came about because the Jaguars had a high tech level, plenty of production facilities, plenty of warriors, but a shortage of resources to build 'Mechs. Both sets of Falcons are short on warriors as their main issue. If anything you might see more and more 'Mech only forces as they rebuild.
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I am very much interested to learn more about AML and what is they deal as well as what Jiyi's Falcons are doing.
The latest Shrapnel has a story about the AML and two Merc factions of ‘renown’: one which will be a serialized novel 👍
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Yeah, ProtoMechs came about because the Jaguars had a high tech level, plenty of production facilities, plenty of warriors, but a shortage of resources to build 'Mechs. Both sets of Falcons are short on warriors as their main issue. If anything you might see more and more 'Mech only forces as they rebuild.
Protomechs also significantly shorten the life expectancy of the pilot, and the different Falcon factions are probably going to want to keep their warriors alive and active as long as possible.
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Protomechs also significantly shorten the life expectancy of the pilot...
Only somewhat true. The rules for neural degradation are such that an aerospace phenotype warrior that gets the implants at 18 won't die from them until their late 40s or early 50s, on average. That is far beyond the point that Clan military society cares about you, unless you're a Galaxy Commander or Khan.
I will concede that being alive and being a functional warrior are two different thresholds, and the point where you cease being the latter is probably several years before you cease being the former.
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Only somewhat true. The rules for neural degradation are such that an aerospace phenotype warrior that gets the implants at 18 won't die from them until their late 40s or early 50s, on average. That is far beyond the point that Clan military society cares about you, unless you're a Galaxy Commander or Khan.
I will concede that being alive and being a functional warrior are two different thresholds, and the point where you cease being the latter is probably several years before you cease being the former.
I got the impression the average life expectancy was closer to late 30-40s. Besides they need warriors to train the next generation so it wouldn’t surprise me if Jiu Chitsu encourages trials of Grievance to be less combative and more competitive.
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The nature of Protos does mean that the odds of surviving a lot of combat isn't very good, but the rules in AToWC are pretty clear. With an average WIL score at the start, you're looking at 40s-50s before hitting zero from the implants themselves.
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I don't know about the rules, but the few times I've seen Protos focused on in the fiction it sounded like the pilots start suffering from career-ending psychological issues much faster than that.
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Only somewhat true. The rules for neural degradation are such that an aerospace phenotype warrior that gets the implants at 18 won't die from them until their late 40s or early 50s, on average. That is far beyond the point that Clan military society cares about you, unless you're a Galaxy Commander or Khan.
I will concede that being alive and being a functional warrior are two different thresholds, and the point where you cease being the latter is probably several years before you cease being the former.
Then it may be an option for a Clan that finds itself critically short on ground forces but with a robust supply of pilot sibkos. A niche case, to be sure, but still.
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AML = "Tamar Rising" Source book, plus a Shrapnel Story ?
Still awaiting more intel (fiction releases). Latest I have is, something about Khan Stephanie Chistu's Golden Keshik on Northwind / near Cappelan space? Khan Jiyi Chistu has almost gotten all of his "Ghost Falcons" up and running ("A Question of Survival" and a Shrapnel Story). Clan Jade Falcon space has a (on file) supported Cluster as Garrison, plus his pet mercs lol, hints there are more forces off book, besides Ghost Falcons, and he has sibko's running, being ready in 3 years ?. The question if they are officially together is in the wind, as at the end of "No Substitute for Victory" is that Star Colonel Baxter was making his way through Falcon Space, with message of the ilClan Trial, and obviously about Stephanie's Falcons
Horsies are angry and will likey make trouble for the AML and Jiyi, plus power projection near Terra ? IF they do, will AML and Jiyi have a loose alliance, as they will take the brunt, if the ponnies decide to push for the Hinterlands.
The latest Shrapnel has a story about the AML and two Merc factions of ‘renown’: one which will be a serialized novel 👍
Ah thank you both of you.
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This is more or less what actually happened. ;)
Imagine if it didn't, we could have had more bird like and bird / dinosaur looks making style, along with the others, minus the Harpy and Siren
Roc would have been a perfect Falcon first generation totem, plus a better Eyrines ? Roc has a laser, Eyrines the missles
Perhaps a heaver version of the Roc, put some miniature wings on it
A Raptor like one with claws / talons perhaps
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Something I have been wondering about, as Jiyi's Falcons develop and solidify their territory.
The ilClan Trial is over, the new ear has begun, why in fiction is Falcon space still being called "Clan Jade Falcon "Occupation Zone" ? (As it stands for the old, as something temporary, before conquering Terra) Other Clans who are permanetly in the Inner Sphere have changed names
Falcons departed the Homeworlds after Wars of Reavings, so there is no "home" there anymore, and since the ilClan Trial is over, should not Jiyi's Falcons, simply be "Clan Jade Falcon" and referred to as "Clan Jade Falcon Space" as they are permanently there
Or are the writers waiting for abit more ilClan plot development ? To me, it makes sense to evolve the naming, as soon we will have "Clan Jade Falcon: Terran Enclave" floating around too
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It's because the only thing Clan Jade Falcon hates more than anything Not Jade Falcon, it's updating the headers on their stationary.
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It was the Jade Falcon Occupation Zone for a literal century. It'll take people a while to get used to the new normal. I don't see an issue there.
FWIW, Tamar Rising simply calls Jiyi's little faction "Clan Jade Falcon" on the map, with no mention of OZ.
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Something I have been wondering about, as Jiyi's Falcons develop and solidify their territory.
The ilClan Trial is over, the new ear has begun, why in fiction is Falcon space still being called "Clan Jade Falcon "Occupation Zone" ?
Probably to emphasize that they never integrated with the natives the way that the Bears or Ravens did.
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Something I have been wondering about, as Jiyi's Falcons develop and solidify their territory.
The ilClan Trial is over, the new ear has begun, why in fiction is Falcon space still being called "Clan Jade Falcon "Occupation Zone" ? (As it stands for the old, as something temporary, before conquering Terra) Other Clans who are permanetly in the Inner Sphere have changed names
Falcons departed the Homeworlds after Wars of Reavings, so there is no "home" there anymore, and since the ilClan Trial is over, should not Jiyi's Falcons, simply be "Clan Jade Falcon" and referred to as "Clan Jade Falcon Space" as they are permanently there
Or are the writers waiting for abit more ilClan plot development ? To me, it makes sense to evolve the naming, as soon we will have "Clan Jade Falcon: Terran Enclave" floating around too
As per page 72 of Tamar Rising, and the big fold out map in the back, the former Jade Falcon OZ is now referred to as The Hinterlands, with Clan Jade Falcon being one of the factions possessing territory within. There is no more Jade Falcon Occupation Zone.
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There is no more Jade Falcon Occupation Zone.
Oh, there is, it's just not called that anymore. ;D
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Oh, there is, it's just not called that anymore. ;D
They've been Jade Falcon territory for almost as long as the time between the end of the Ottoman Empire and now. They're not an occupation zone in any meaningful sense of the word.
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They've been Jade Falcon territory for almost as long as the time between the end of the Ottoman Empire and now. They're not an occupation zone in any meaningful sense of the word.
The Falcons themselves called it an occupation zone right up until they abandoned it (and certainly treated it as such). Think I'll take their word for it.
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On Tamar Rising map, yes it's called "correctly" Clan Jade Falcon, but in the novels, it is still referred to as the "Occupation Zone". Will there be an update now, especially under the new Jiyi era ?
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When they mention "Occupation Zone" in the novels, they're referring to the Hinterlands as a whole: the former Jade Falcon Occupation Zone. I don't think anyone's actually used the term Hinterlands term in a story yet. They refer to the Hinterlands in those terms ("former Occupation Zone") many times in Tamar Rising. Jiyi's remnant seems to be just "Clan Jade Falcon". If his faction survives whatever comes next, be it the Horses coming back to finish the job now that the guy who wanted to finish them off the first time is in charge or whatever the hell is coming with Alaric and this new Star League, maybe they'll get a chance to evolve into something more.
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Speaking of "what's coming next" mainly any updates on For Ilkhan's Eyes Only ?
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Absolutely nothing. In all likelihood, we *might* get a teaser in the form of the Table of Contents shortly before the book itself comes out, but I would be extremely surprised if we got anything else before the actual release.
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Thankfully the Ghost Bears haven’t had this problem of what to call our area since the WoR/Jihad.
Of course we have two names…. And a mini civil war that wrecked 30% of the Touman… but at least we didn’t do all… ‘that’.
Now I personally still call it the Jade Falcon OZ but that’s because that’s the way I’ve seen it in most fiction with no real accepted changed name. The Raven Alliance and the Wolf Empire now have accepted names but I’d call the Hell Horses OZ the same way. The AML has a new name where as Jiyi has kept the OG Jade Falcon Clan moniker. Just my two cents.
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Probably to emphasize that they never integrated with the natives the way that the Bears or Ravens did.
Natives are so unintegrated into the clan that they do not want to join the LC fractions
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Just because you hate the current boss, doesn't mean you'd welcome a return of the utterly incompetent old boss.
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Just because you hate the current boss, doesn't mean you'd welcome a return of the utterly incompetent old boss.
Callandre Kell and Sarah Regis are picture-perfect examples of this truth.
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Just because you hate the current boss, doesn't mean you'd welcome a return of the utterly incompetent old boss.
The first example would be the planet Malibu during the FedCom civil War. Adam Steiner wanted to conquer it but the population said "No thank you" so they fought on the moon for the possesion of the loading station
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The AML has a new name where as Jiyi has kept the OG Jade Falcon Clan moniker. Just my two cents.
But that's the point I'm trying to make, its no longer "technically" an occupation zone, it is simply "Clan Jade Falcon" and their space, thus in fiction, accurate to be called "Clan Jade Falcon Space", just as with the other Hinterland states, they are their own "space/territory", yes though, on a larger picture, on the worlds of the former Occupation Zone, but each new era faction owns its own space
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But that's the point I'm trying to make, its no longer "technically" an occupation zone, it is simply "Clan Jade Falcon" and their space, thus in fiction, accurate to be called "Clan Jade Falcon Space", just as with the other Hinterland states, they are their own "space/territory", yes though, on a larger picture, on the worlds of the former Occupation Zone, but each new era faction owns its own space
It's been the Jade Falcon Occupation Zone for literally a century in-universe. Give it longer than five minutes before expecting people to call it something else.
And technically, it is still an Occupation Zone. It's just a lot smaller now. ;D
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The JF OZ area is in turmoil right now. Give it time for events to play out before it gets a new name.
I've had a theory that we will see the world's return to the Lyran Commonwealth but still be Jade Falcon world's. Not really Lyran world's but not independent Jade Falcon world's either. Lyran world's run by the Jade Falcons as thier own. The Lyrans don't have to garrison them because the Falcons do that.
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I've had a theory that we will see the world's return to the Lyran Commonwealth but still be Jade Falcon world's. Not really Lyran world's but not independent Jade Falcon world's either. Lyran world's run by the Jade Falcons as thier own. The Lyrans don't have to garrison them because the Falcons do that.
I kind of hope this doesn't happen, because I'd hate to see the remnant Falcons just end up as the Lyrans' pet Clan like the Exiled Wolves were before them. I want BattleTech to do something a little different for a change.
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I can't see anyone in the Commonwealth being willing to let the Falcons exist as a client state. They're probably going to be willing to turn a blind eye as long as Tamar and Arc Royal are there to function as a buffer region, but accepting anything named "Falcon" into Lyran space is going to go poorly.
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Yeah, I imagine the river of bad blood between the Lyrans and the Falcons is not something to be bridged. It's just that the Lyrans can't do squat right now about it, which leaves the former JFOZ up to petty warlords looking to carve an empire from the stars left behind.
Which I'm all for, I like the smaller factions. The AML is potentially fascinating as a political construct, even if I'm pro-Tamar Pact as far as the region goes.
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Question: Malvina Hazen started off commanding Delta Galaxy, the Gyrfalcons. During her command time, the Gyrfalcons seemed almost universally behind her Mongol Philosphy. In FM3145 it's mentioned that she took some of her supporters from Delta to form Omega. Starting in The Anvil though, Delta Galaxy has somehow become a dumping ground for anti-Mongol warriors, starting with Galaxy Commander Stephanie Chistu.
Was this an oversight from the writers' perspectives, or was the combination of casualties from Malvina's campaign + pulling her strongest supporters over to Omega enough to let Delta flip? It seemed jarring to see Delta go from one of her favorite galaxies to one she considered a dumping ground.
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Never made sense to me, either, honestly. I just chalk it up to one of the many things that BLP ignored in order to service his plots.
You'd think that they'd have leaned into Noritomo Helmer and Zeta Galaxy (the bastion of her brother's support) instead. In fact, it would've been a much better narrative payoff to see Noritomo Helmer fill that role than Stephanie Chistu (who is basically Noritomo Helmer but with knives anyway), because there's an actual history of him pushing back against Malvina's excesses.
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Which is another thing because we don’t hear a lot about Helmer and suddenly he turns up in IlClan having been taken Bondsman by the Wolves and then suddenly he’s the IlLoremaster
But agreed in that he would have been right there and a good choice for the anti-Mongol faction AND Zeta Galaxy (even if they went berserker after Aleks’s death). Not that I mind Christu but still….
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Which is another thing because we don’t hear a lot about Helmer and suddenly he turns up in IlClan having been taken Bondsman by the Wolves and then suddenly he’s the IlLoremaster
But agreed in that he would have been right there and a good choice for the anti-Mongol faction AND Zeta Galaxy (even if they went berserker after Aleks’s death). Not that I mind Christu but still….
That battle is on pg 84 in Shattered Fortress (the book that covers most everything post FM3145 and pre ilClan).
March of 3150 Clan Wolf dropped 3 clusters from Beta Galaxy (13th Wolf Guard Striker, 9th Wolf Guard Striker, and 19th Wolf Striker Cluster). Additionally there were reports the Silver Keshik came along, but these turned out to be misdirection. The Falcon saKhan, Ryan Pryde, was on planet along with the Turkina Keshik and the 124th Falcon Striker Cluster. Noritomo was leading the 124th around the streets of New London when Wolf forces collapsed a few buildings catching Noritomo's 'Mech and some others. After the Falcon forces left, Noritomo was found alive among the wreckage and made bondsman to Star Colonel Don Cooper of the 13th Wolf Guard Striker Cluster. Noritomo soon realized the Wolf touman was the best way to stop Malvina from taking Terra and he began to cooperate and within 2 weeks had his bondcord cut.
I agree, it was odd he went from being the big anti-Malvina to disappearing and then a new big anti-Malvina showing up. The interesting thing is that reading FM3145 again, there's no mention of the anti-Malvina types being grouped anywhere. Unlike Ulric putting the crusaders in Tau Galaxy and Vlad putting the wardens in Omega, Malvina seems to have kept them spread out as of FM3145. Even Noritomo was reported as being happy his galaxy was getting extra hardware and military equipment beyond what would be expected.
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All I want to say is Don Cooper may be the least clan-like clan name I’ve ever read.
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Still would like to know where Ichiba Pryde went to
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Sorry Wantec I should have clarified my statement: he seems to be missing post Skye and Malvina for a couple years up until that point and suddenly he’s back. I forgot it was Shattered Fortress that mentioned that.
I also think that due to the fiction gravitating towards Christu after Coventry that they used it as a point to start dumping everything into Delta. I don’t know if their ‘long term plans’ were made with that the Falcons would survive in a fashion but it gave them a good Anti-Malvina base to start with.
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No worries. Looking at FM3145, Noritomo's cluster, the 124th Falcon Striker Cluster was stationed to Skye. Reading through Shattered Fortress, Zeta Galaxy and Noritomo's 124th were just parked on Skye. There's not much on the unit period.
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It just makes zero sense to me that Delta Galaxy would suddenly become this anti-Malvina bastion. They rode for her hard in the fiction, right down to the fact that they used a secret code of falcon screeches during in-combat communications. I'd say that they were right behind Omega Galaxy and the Raptor Keshik (and only because Malvina hand-picked those units herself) in being pro-Malvina/pro-Mongol. The lack of consistency is very frustrating.
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You forget, the more inconsistent and hypocritical, the more Clan. :thumbsup:
Delta Galaxy is truly the most Clan of any Galaxy in all of Clan Jade Falcon. Nay, in all the Clans.
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You damn well know what I meant! ;D
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I did and I stand by my statement.
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I'd think splitting out some of Delta to reform Omega probably accounts for the majority of the erosion of Mongol adherence to ensure Omega was reliable, but I'm away from my sources and supposing here, did Delta also fight on Hesperus II and Tharkad? Maybe combat losses also helped turn Delta right out of the Mongol camp?
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I also think that due to the fiction gravitating towards Christu
Please acknowledge that there is no R in Chistu. Reading it like that throws off my cognition, and forces me to go back and check 30 year old books to make sure that I am not responsible for grievously rewriting the time line on accident. :)
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Please acknowledge that there is no R in Chistu. Reading it like that throws off my cognition, and forces me to go back and check 30 year old books to make sure that I am not responsible for grievously rewriting the time line on accident. :)
Many apologies… :)
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Okay, if we want to troll Jal Phoenix, we know what to do now. So back to talking about Jiyi Chistru...
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You damn well know what I meant! ;D
Since most of Malvinas followers seem to attract trouble like a moth to a flame the survivors and replacements may consider an alternative. I don’t know their casualty rates but even if you win a battle, if you receive high casaulties it can dampen the victory celebration
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Okay, if we want to troll Jal Phoenix, we know what to do now. So back to talking about Jiyi Chistru...
It's like when Jim Long discovered that he spelled Rhiannon wrong for the entirety of Main Event, so he corrected it for DRT, but didn't tell anyone. It confused me more than I care to admit, until Fleetwood Mac saved the day by letting me know what the hell was going on.
Stuff I've been working on recently required me to spell Elias Crichell properly. When I went back to proof the document, I found that I had three different spellings, and I couldn't remember which one was correct!
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Okay, if we want to troll Jal Phoenix, we know what to do now. So back to talking about Jiyi Chistru...
"Thus did JoJo Chorizo declare himself Khan, resurrecting the Jade Falcons as a phoenix risen from the pyre."
- Jude Falkin Remembrance, Verse 8361, Line 42.
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Stuff I've been working on recently required me to spell Elias Crichell properly. When I went back to proof the document, I found that I had three different spellings, and I couldn't remember which one was correct!
Reviewing a page of writing about a guy named Sao, I found that somehow I'd called him Yao 75% of the time.
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Like for example: the 1st Falcon Jaegers were destroyed with the exception of two warriors Star Colonel Khalus Pryde and Star Captain Archer Pryde. Khalus Pryde became SaKhan so I doubt he’d stick with the same (destroyed) Cluster and instead take a Keshik or Galaxy command. Star Captain Pryde could theoretically challenge to rebuild the 1st Falcon Jaegers as a new Star Colonel.
Little bit of thread necro, but until we get more information (hello, ilKhan's Eyes Only when) this is exactly how I have been operating in my MechWarrior: Destiny campaign and BattleTech: Total Warfare games: Khalus Pryde probably takes over the Turkina Keshik (unless Stephanie Chistu demands that honor) and Archer Pryde takes on the task of rebuilding the 1st Falcon Jaegers as a Star Colonel.
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Little bit of thread necro, but until we get more information (hello, ilKhan's Eyes Only when) this is exactly how I have been operating in my MechWarrior: Destiny campaign and BattleTech: Total Warfare games: Khalus Pryde probably takes over the Turkina Keshik (unless Stephanie Chistu demands that honor) and Archer Pryde takes on the task of rebuilding the 1st Falcon Jaegers as a Star Colonel.
Just given the sheer humber of losses and less than 100 warriors (including elementals) wouldn’t falcons be rebuilding about 2, or maybe 3 understrength clusters?
And the AS box gave us one new unit.
So the Golden Talons or whatever they were called in that story
Falcon Guards probably
1st Falcon Jaegers?
Would there be more iconic units to rebuild?
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Just given the sheer humber of losses and less than 100 warriors (including elementals) wouldn’t falcons be rebuilding about 2, or maybe 3 understrength clusters?
And the AS box gave us one new unit.
So the Golden Talons or whatever they were called in that story
Falcon Guards probably
1st Falcon Jaegers?
Would there be more iconic units to rebuild?
Assuming the average Trinary is 14 Battlemechs and one elemental star that is 19 warriors. I would estimate they have about 5 Trinaries and one Star of Battlemechs. If any of those survivors are from tanks then you are looking at even fewer Trinaries.
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Assuming the average Trinary is 14 Battlemechs and one elemental star that is 19 warriors. I would estimate they have about 5 Trinaries and one Star of Battlemechs. If any of those survivors are from tanks then you are looking at even fewer Trinaries.
Clan Jade Falcon? With tanks?
What do we look like? Hell's Horses? ;D
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Greetings "bloodhouse kin"
I too are eagerly awaiting more material on both our Terran and Coreward Forces.
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Well met, trothkin.
I agree that I will gladly take any Falcon material I can get my hands on, but there's been a dearth of material regarding the Terran faction—save for the one short story included in the Alpha Strike box set.
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That's because there's been no news regarding anything involving Terra after the Wolf victory. We'll have to wait until IlKhan's Eyes Only at the very least for further info.
Clan Jade Falcon? With tanks?
What do we look like? Hell's Horses? ;D
Says the Clan that built the Skadi, Skanda, Gurzil, and Death Chalupa.
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Says the Clan that built the Skadi, Skanda, Gurzil, and Death Chalupa.
I do like the Skadi
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Agreed. And the DA mini looks great on the table, particularly once the autocannon gets enhanced from the stub on it.
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That's because there's been no news regarding anything involving Terra after the Wolf victory. We'll have to wait until IlKhan's Eyes Only at the very least for further info.
Says the Clan that built the Skadi, Skanda, Gurzil, and Death Chalupa.
Hey. Bright side.
The ilKEO “notable” units section could feasibly describe the entire Terra.Jade Falcon touman. Same with Jags.
Clan Jade Falcon
Elite/Reliable
Commander: Khan Stephanie Chistu
M/BM/T
3X H/BM/T
A/BM/T
BA/S
M/AF/B
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Hey. Bright side.
The ilKEO “notable” units section could feasibly describe the entire Terra.Jade Falcon touman. Same with Jags.
Clan Jade Falcon
Elite/Reliable
Commander: Khan Stephanie Chistu
M/BM/T
3X H/BM/T
A/BM/T
BA/S
M/AF/B
This right?
- M/BM/T - Medium Battlemech Trinary
- 3X H/BM/T - 3x Heavy BM Trinaries
- A/BM/T - 1x Assault Mech Trinity
- BA/S - 1x Battle Armor Star
- M/AF/B - Medium Aerospace Binary
I will admit that I spent several dozens of seconds trying to figure out what a squadron of battle armor looked liked
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Yes, that's right, although Star is actually S(c), Binary is B(c) and Trinary is T(c).
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Yes, that's right, although Star is actually S(c), Binary is B(c) and Trinary is T(c).
Oops. Yeah, I missed the (c).
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Hey. Bright side.
The ilKEO “notable” units section could feasibly describe the entire Terra.Jade Falcon touman. Same with Jags.
Clan Jade Falcon
Elite/Reliable
Commander: Khan Stephanie Chistu
M/BM/T
3X H/BM/T
A/BM/T
BA/S
M/AF/B
That's entirely true, and something I eagerly look forward to seeing.
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It just makes zero sense to me that Delta Galaxy would suddenly become this anti-Malvina bastion. They rode for her hard in the fiction, right down to the fact that they used a secret code of falcon screeches during in-combat communications. I'd say that they were right behind Omega Galaxy and the Raptor Keshik (and only because Malvina hand-picked those units herself) in being pro-Malvina/pro-Mongol. The lack of consistency is very frustrating.
By the time of IlClan (or Shattered Fortress, for that matter), Malvina has been Khan for over a decade and two full generations of warriors have cycled through Delta and every other Galaxy. Does she strike you as the type to be sentimental for past things?
If Clan formations were monolithic and static things, sure, but we know that they are not. If anything, I'd think that it speaks strongly to the (fairly well supported) idea that Clan units are ultimately reflections of their commanders to an extent that's difficult to compare to IS formations outside of a handful of notable exceptions.
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Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on at least half of that.
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By the time of IlClan (or Shattered Fortress, for that matter), Malvina has been Khan for over a decade and two full generations of warriors have cycled through Delta and every other Galaxy. Does she strike you as the type to be sentimental for past things?
If Clan formations were monolithic and static things, sure, but we know that they are not. If anything, I'd think that it speaks strongly to the (fairly well supported) idea that Clan units are ultimately reflections of their commanders to an extent that's difficult to compare to IS formations outside of a handful of notable exceptions.
ER3145 mentions Malvina has a 'soft spot' for her brother Alek's Zeta Galaxy, and they good more replacement warriors and equipment than their status would typically belie.
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Then Alek died and she went full loony.
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Then Alek died and she went full loony.
FM3145 is set years after Aleks' death. Plus pre-BLP Cynthy shows that Malvina does have some sentimentality within her.
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FM3145 is set years after Aleks' death. Plus pre-BLP Cynthy shows that Malvina does have some sentimentality within her.
I don't usually describe characterization shifts as "dumb," but I'll forever think the Malvina change in regards to her treatment of Cynthy was above & beyond horse dung.
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Malvina was never really much of an interesting character in my eyes, but in her last appearances, she basically became a mustache-twirling villain.
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I don't usually describe characterization shifts as "dumb," but I'll forever think the Malvina change in regards to her treatment of Cynthy was above & beyond horse dung.
It ABSOLUTELY was horse dung. BLP completely and totally missed the point of Malvina's relationship with Cynthy and threw away the nuances that made her such an interesting character (to me, anyway), and I'll never forgive him for it. I never expected her to live beyond the fight for Terra, but making her into a child abuser on the way out was just... ugh. A sad end to one of my favorite characters in BattleTech.
I appreciate you saying this, Shin. It's nice to know I wasn't alone in how I felt about that shift.
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It ABSOLUTELY was horse dung. BLP completely and totally missed the point of Malvina's relationship with Cynthy and threw away the nuances that made her such an interesting character (to me, anyway), and I'll never forgive him for it. I never expected her to live beyond the fight for Terra, but making her into a child abuser on the way out was just... ugh. A sad end to one of my favorite characters in BattleTech.
I appreciate you saying this, Shin. It's nice to know I wasn't alone in how I felt about that shift.
The change happened back in ER3145 on Cynthy's character bio. She was already described as someone demonstrating severe abuse trauma. So I think TPTB, not necessarily knowing what Victor Milan intended for Cynthy to do or represent, went the most expected route there, and BLP wrote it that way.
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To be perfectly frank, at no point did Malvina ever get written like someone that it would be reasonable to expect her to not be abusive, no matter how good her intentions might have been. She was just too volatile and prone to lashing out randomly whenever something upset her.
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So I think TPTB, not necessarily knowing what Victor Milan intended for Cynthy to do or represent, went the most expected route there, and BLP wrote it that way.
A problem that could've easily been solved by, gee, I dunno, reading the book? But I've noticed several instances of writers having obviously not read the work that they themselves go on to build upon (specifically A Rending of Falcons), and it's incredibly frustrating. The lack of consistency is doubly frustrating when they tout having fact checkers.
Hell, the BattleTech Legends book was at least 50% wrong, right down to having the wrong paint job AND wrong weapons on her Shrike.
To be perfectly frank, at no point did Malvina ever get written like someone that it would be reasonable to expect her to not be abusive, no matter how good her intentions might have been. She was just too volatile and prone to lashing out randomly whenever something upset her.
Hard disagree. Aleks and Cynthy were very specifically exempt from this, and for reasons that were laid out pretty damn well.
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To be perfectly frank, at no point did Malvina ever get written like someone that it would be reasonable to expect her to not be abusive, no matter how good her intentions might have been. She was just too volatile and prone to lashing out randomly whenever something upset her.
Agreed but it would have been nice to know what made Malvina abusive in the first place. We only received hints and a sudden dynamic shift only represents a call for communication (in real life).
I feel the Lyrans will make a come back but I hope we see a gradual shift instead of a deus ex machina we have seen to many times over the years.
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Once the writers remember that the Commonwealth still exists, you mean?
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Hard disagree. Aleks and Cynthy were very specifically exempt from this, and for reasons that were laid out pretty damn well.
100% this. Admittedly, I don't have my novels near by ("working" lmao) so I'll absolutely defer to others if I'm in error, but it wasn't everyone outside of Malvina prior to FM3145 going "oh, yeah, she dotes on Cynthy to a weird degree, so you know there is totally no abuse." Other than Beckett's observations, most of the narrative towards Cynthy was either external or internal Malvina, going on about obliterating life in the universe -except- for her. Every book appearance I can think of involving Cynthy in some way, shape, or form, absolutely emphasizes that she's the one thing left in existence that is "safe" from Malvina's rage. If a shift towards her would have occurred for a logical narrative, it would have had to occur directly after Aleks' death (when you'd imagine Malvina would be the most prone to lashing out at the one thing left) & I don't remember anything in the MWDA novels displaying that.
I mean, it's a fictional character created by someone other than me, and I can't speak to the headspace thereof, but for all of Malvina's sins, being abusive towards Cynthy to reach the conclusion in HotW is the hardest for me to accept.
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All tales in the record of "The Not Named Hazen" good riddance
Will be nice going forward in ilClan to see Cynthy resurface somewhere
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All tales in the record of "The Not Named Hazen" good riddance
Will be nice going forward in ilClan to see Cynthy resurface somewhere
That would likely involve seeing what the heck is going on with Terra though, which I am eager to see for numerous reasons. :)
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100% this. Admittedly, I don't have my novels near by ("working" lmao) so I'll absolutely defer to others if I'm in error, but it wasn't everyone outside of Malvina prior to FM3145 going "oh, yeah, she dotes on Cynthy to a weird degree, so you know there is totally no abuse." Other than Beckett's observations, most of the narrative towards Cynthy was either external or internal Malvina, going on about obliterating life in the universe -except- for her. Every book appearance I can think of involving Cynthy in some way, shape, or form, absolutely emphasizes that she's the one thing left in existence that is "safe" from Malvina's rage.
My problem is that I never found that claim to be believable. I'm willing to believe that Malvina genuinely believed herself, but I don't accept that she had the self-control to actually insure that she never actually did anything to Cynthy. Let's just say it's a common narrative with abusers and leave it at that.
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So, Falcons have never been my favorite Clan. But I am EXCITED to see what happens with the remnants in the occupation zone, both the AML and Chistu's remnant.
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100% this. Admittedly, I don't have my novels near by ("working" lmao) so I'll absolutely defer to others if I'm in error, but it wasn't everyone outside of Malvina prior to FM3145 going "oh, yeah, she dotes on Cynthy to a weird degree, so you know there is totally no abuse." Other than Beckett's observations, most of the narrative towards Cynthy was either external or internal Malvina, going on about obliterating life in the universe -except- for her. Every book appearance I can think of involving Cynthy in some way, shape, or form, absolutely emphasizes that she's the one thing left in existence that is "safe" from Malvina's rage. If a shift towards her would have occurred for a logical narrative, it would have had to occur directly after Aleks' death (when you'd imagine Malvina would be the most prone to lashing out at the one thing left) & I don't remember anything in the MWDA novels displaying that.
I mean, it's a fictional character created by someone other than me, and I can't speak to the headspace thereof, but for all of Malvina's sins, being abusive towards Cynthy to reach the conclusion in HotW is the hardest for me to accept.
This is exactly right. Thank you.
The whole point of Cynthy in Malvina's personal narrative is that she serves as a sort of "childhood do-over", where she could protect Cynthy from all of the things that made Malvina who she became. Never once pre-ER3145 did Malvina show even the slightest hint of abuse towards Cynthy. Granted, I'm not saying it was a healthy relationship, but it was certainly never abusive.
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Thats the whole thing about abusive relationships. No one notices them until boom its impossible not to.
Malvina was a volatile mess. I am not surprised that there was no one safe from her rage.
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Thats the whole thing about abusive relationships. No one notices them until boom its impossible not to.
Or until a writer decides to ignore previously-established characterization and make the relationship abusive.
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Did Malvina stop having ruthless rages? Did she stop being merciless and unreasonably brutal?
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Deleted. Not worth it.
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You're out, so I'll just apologize I did not mean to come off condescending.
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So, Falcons have never been my favorite Clan. But I am EXCITED to see what happens with the remnants in the occupation zone, both the AML and Chistu's remnant.
The Nu falcons which I really enjoy as pluck underdogs are featured heavily in the new horses novel
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My problem is that I never found that claim to be believable. I'm willing to believe that Malvina genuinely believed herself, but I don't accept that she had the self-control to actually insure that she never actually did anything to Cynthy. Let's just say it's a common narrative with abusers and leave it at that.
Also even if she never hit Cynthy, that didn't mean the relationship wasn't abusive. It was blatently abusive. Malvina had no intreast in Cynthy as a person, she was a posession, a living doll, a THING to her.
so yeah even if Malvina never hit Cynthy it was emotionally abusive as hell
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I would have written Malvina's relationship with Cynthy in a completely different way. I'd have made Cynthy the one thing that Malvina loved, but being Malvina, it would be a poisoned love. Malvina would be doing all these horrible things, then going home to Cynthy and saying "look what I did for you, sweetheart". Poor Cynthy would know better than to provoke Mama's anger, so she just smiles and nods her head. Malvina is so overprotective and coddles her and keeps her safe. From everything. Cynthy never gets to live a life of her own. Malvina genuinely thinks Cynthy is happy. So, after Terra, when Cynthy uses that knife to take her own life in front of Malvina, it causes a pretty bad mental breakdown. I wouldn't kill Malvina, but save her for later.
But all of that arc was long before my time in yellow, and I'm just a freelancer and not a developer anyway, so it's all moot. Fun AU stuff.
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Also even if she never hit Cynthy, that didn't mean the relationship wasn't abusive. It was blatently abusive. Malvina had no intreast in Cynthy as a person, she was a posession, a living doll, a THING to her.
That's not quite accurate, but sure.
I would have written Malvina's relationship with Cynthy in a completely different way. I'd have made Cynthy the one thing that Malvina loved, but being Malvina, it would be a poisoned love. Malvina would be doing all these horrible things, then going home to Cynthy and saying "look what I did for you, sweetheart". Poor Cynthy would know better than to provoke Mama's anger, so she just smiles and nods her head. Malvina is so overprotective and coddles her and keeps her safe. From everything. Cynthy never gets to live a life of her own. Malvina genuinely thinks Cynthy is happy. So, after Terra, when Cynthy uses that knife to take her own life in front of Malvina, it causes a pretty bad mental breakdown. I wouldn't kill Malvina, but save her for later.
I mean, that's pretty much how their relationship was written until ER3145 started sliding into random physical abuse and BLP went full tilt.
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I'm still waiting to find out Cynthy's true identity.
My bet is she's a scion of a House Steiner cadet branch, but was given too many heavy doses of involuntary psych meds akin to thorazine, along with brainwashing. Now she can't remember to turn on a toaster, let alone her own identity.
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Can we just get a Malvina/Cynthy thread at this point? It comes up within five posts literally every time someone makes a post in this thread even when it's not about that.
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Seconded.
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Thirded
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Can we just get a Malvina/Cynthy thread at this point? It comes up within five posts literally every time someone makes a post in this thread even when it's not about that.
No one's stopping you from making one. Have at it.
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I think Scotty's point was that they don't want to keep discussing it.
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Indeed. Presently, I'd much rather be talking about how to paint the ****** feathers on the 1st Falcon Sentinels from anyone who's managed to pull it off.
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Need some Jade Falcon lore/painting expertise mixed together here.
Gonna paint up some Falcons in the new Golden Talon scheme we see in the Alpha Strike Box set. Plan is to make a quick, table ready binary. Imperial Fist Yellow Contrast, and then some kind of green-gray layer paint for the trim. My FLGS carries Citadel Color and Army Painter lines. I don't have a greenish-gray in my paint kit yet, so I'll be picking up a bottle/pot.
Anyone with a good eye for color have a recommendation for that shade of green in the lines carried above? I'm not color blind, but I don't have a good eye for fine distinctions in color.
Cheers,
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Imperial Fist is really bright for that, I'd go with Nazdreg Yellow first. The green looks like it's a pretty good match for either Militarum Green (contrast) or Castellan Green (traditional).
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Indeed. Presently, I'd much rather be talking about how to paint the ****** feathers on the 1st Falcon Sentinels from anyone who's managed to pull it off.
That's fair. Maybe next time, you can start the conversation you actually want to have instead of rudely telling me to take my own thoughts (which are on-topic for this thread) elsewhere. Be the change you want to see.
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Imperial Fist is really bright for that, I'd go with Nazdreg Yellow first. The green looks like it's a pretty good match for either Militarum Green (contrast) or Castellan Green (traditional).
Thanks for the suggestions. I find Contrast paints to be too thin for me to do trim or highlights with--they just run all over on me. I'll go for the Castellan Green if it is in stock. Also thanks for the Nazdreg Yellow suggestion.
Cheers,
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That's fair. Maybe next time, you can start the conversation you actually want to have instead of rudely telling me to take my own thoughts (which are on-topic for this thread) elsewhere. Be the change you want to see.
Seconded.
Talking about Falcon-related madness is entirely appropriate on the Jade Falcon thread. Pretty reasonable to just post about other Falcon related items as well, instead of that other approach, lol...
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The issue is that both sides are just rehashing the same talking points without either having anything new to say about it. Also, the topic is something that some people are likely to find triggering, so having it in a general thread can be an issue- having it in a thread where people aren't going to suddenly going to stumble upon it accidentally is probably better.
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Most posts on this website are rehashing. Otherwise there would be no grognards.
I understand your point of view, but I don't bother responding to all kinds of posts. I'm fine with posting an idea that gets few responses (or no responses) now, as somewhere down the line someone might read it and think similarly or even have their own opinion, and it generates new facets of old discussions.
Respectfully, of course, MLO4H. I know you're reasonable.
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Indeed. Presently, I'd much rather be talking about how to paint the ****** feathers on the 1st Falcon Sentinels from anyone who's managed to pull it off.
You'll need a 00 or smaller brush with a very fine tip, properly thinned paints (put a drop on your pallet and add water until it flows nicely but not so much that it loses color), and a steady hand. I can't teach you that last part. Use a magnifying lamp.
As seen on this mini, making feathers is as simple as adding a few lines of varying colors. This is three rows of five lighter green stripes laid out in a pattern suggestive of layered feathers. Each stripe has been highlighted with a secondary color for extra contrast. You are not going to paint a Rembrandt at this scale. You only have to suggest the image, and allow the viewer's eye to fill in the details.
(https://camospecs.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/QingLong1stSentTurkinaM.jpg?4a248e&4a248e)
This mini is a bit harder for me to see, but it appears to be a wing shape painted in black, which then had a dark green applied in areas that suggest layered feathers by leaving some black visible between the green. Then a lighter green was applied in stripes and in stippling over the darker green, again leaving some of the under color showing to suggest layers. The yellow halo is just an effect for contrast.
(https://camospecs.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/TAC-Turkina-5.jpg?4a248e&4a248e)
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That takes some real planning and forethought...I'm really impressed, very nice work!
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You'll need a 00 or smaller brush with a very fine tip, properly thinned paints (put a drop on your pallet and add water until it flows nicely but not so much that it loses color), and a steady hand. I can't teach you that last part. Use a magnifying lamp.
As seen on this mini, making feathers is as simple as adding a few lines of varying colors. This is three rows of five lighter green stripes laid out in a pattern suggestive of layered feathers. Each stripe has been highlighted with a secondary color for extra contrast. You are not going to paint a Rembrandt at this scale. You only have to suggest the image, and allow the viewer's eye to fill in the details.
(https://camospecs.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/QingLong1stSentTurkinaM.jpg?4a248e&4a248e)
This mini is a bit harder for me to see, but it appears to be a wing shape painted in black, which then had a dark green applied in areas that suggest layered feathers by leaving some black visible between the green. Then a lighter green was applied in stripes and in stippling over the darker green, again leaving some of the under color showing to suggest layers. The yellow halo is just an effect for contrast.
(https://camospecs.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/TAC-Turkina-5.jpg?4a248e&4a248e)
That is actually really damned impressive! Your skills are to be praised.
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Just to be clear, those are not mine. They are the two painted examples from CamoSpecs. I'm just trying to help by explaining the methods I'd use.
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Man, I will say it again, the Turkina is a cool mech :cool:
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(https://camospecs.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/QingLong1stSentTurkinaM.jpg?4a248e&4a248e)
So those are obviously modified Supernova arms on that mini, but do you know what parts were used for those missile pods?
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You'll need a 00 or smaller brush with a very fine tip, properly thinned paints (put a drop on your pallet and add water until it flows nicely but not so much that it loses color), and a steady hand. I can't teach you that last part. Use a magnifying lamp.
I mean, I did all these with size 0 and 1 brushes, without a magnifying lens...apologies for the cell phone camera at 3 AM quality. IMO, a good quality brush is more important than its size--theoretically, all brushes should taper to a similarly sharp point, so smaller is more about maneuverability vs. paint load. As for thinning? You usually want a consistency similar to whole milk for real detail work. As for magnification, I'm not getting any younger but unfortunately magnifiers magnify the brush too. For eyes (on non-BT miniatures) or small detail work, getting that level of precision helps but for organic structures like wings, I'm of a mind that some randomness in the mix is a feature rather than a bug.
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Now with an IWM sculpt, what sort of Stars do you like to run the Jade Phoenix in?
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Just to be clear, those are not mine. They are the two painted examples from CamoSpecs. I'm just trying to help by explaining the methods I'd use.
Got it! Still very nice.
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Now with an IWM sculpt, what sort of Stars do you like to run the Jade Phoenix in?
Well as part of my mixed Cluster of other Clan mechs in my Rasalhague Dominion Galaxy, it’s going to serve with a Jupiter, two Turkina’s, and a Night Gyr. I’d like for something else to replace the Night Gyr personally but I use what I’ve got. Three big boys up the middle (or long range sniping) with the other two as ‘mobile flankers’. I might be convinced to get a second and replace the Night Gyr… eventually
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This mini is a bit harder for me to see, but it appears to be a wing shape painted in black, which then had a dark green applied in areas that suggest layered feathers by leaving some black visible between the green. Then a lighter green was applied in stripes and in stippling over the darker green, again leaving some of the under color showing to suggest layers. The yellow halo is just an effect for contrast.
This is STUNNING
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Holy spit parable, are you serious? That is some amazing detail work in some not-very-amazingly-sized spots! I gotta go stare off towards the horizon to reset my strained eyes just looking at your work. Well done!
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Holy spit parable, are you serious? That is some amazing detail work in some not-very-amazingly-sized spots! I gotta go stare off towards the horizon to reset my strained eyes just looking at your work. Well done!
Thank you. Ironically, the freehand wasn't even the hardest part of the star--that had to go to the gold pearl glaze that the Turkina Keshik applies over their paint job. This star had to be stripped and repainted twice before I got an effect I was happy with. I still need to learn to take better pictures though.
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Did anyone guesstimate any numbers on how Falcony Jiyi's Falcons are after the events of question of Survival?
It sort of feels like the only thing really connecting Jiyi's crew to the pre-Malvina Falcons is the Chitsu name and Jiyi himself.
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Now with an IWM sculpt, what sort of Stars do you like to run the Jade Phoenix in?
I'd proably run it in the same kinds of enviroments I'd run a summoner, executioner etc. fast jumping mechs.
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Did anyone guesstimate any numbers on how Falcony Jiyi's Falcons are after the events of question of Survival?
It sort of feels like the only thing really connecting Jiyi's crew to the pre-Malvina Falcons is the Chitsu name and Jiyi himself.
Hopefully something we'll never find out. Personnel numbers are a lot like real-world measurements, in that it's rarely a good thing for fans to get ahold of them. Much better for it to be left to "as much as the plot needs".
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After that book i will say that falcon are about 80% bear. At this point. He took everything he had with him for his gambit.
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Hopefully something we'll never find out. Personnel numbers are a lot like real-world measurements, in that it's rarely a good thing for fans to get ahold of them. Much better for it to be left to "as much as the plot needs".
I’d guesstimate about two to three Clusters at most. I’d have to read Tamar Rising and Question of Survival again but IIRC he was able to build a full Cluster in Tamar Rising (mixed unit). Then in Question he picked up a couple hundred cadets and even if half of them passed he could probably muster another Cluster, plus whatever else was still building.
That whole faction is based around Jiyi: he falls they fall. It’s a cult of personality based upon him and based around the old Clan/Falcon ways and not Malvinas ways, along with a dash of new ideas/tactics.
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After that book i will say that falcon are about 80% bear. At this point. He took everything he had with him for his gambit.
Ah, the dreaded Bearfalcon. It's like a griffin but, you know, a bear/falcon hybrid instead of a lion/eagle hybrid.
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Ah, the dreaded Bearfalcon. It's like a griffin but, you know, a bear/falcon hybrid instead of a lion/eagle hybrid.
That is a legitimately good griffon variant. Must add to next D&D campaign.
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I recommend combining a polar bear with a gyrfalcon.
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You know, tomorrow at work i KNOW i will be googling bear griffins instead of doing productive stuff....
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They're like owlbears except more.
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Did anyone guesstimate any numbers on how Falcony Jiyi's Falcons are after the events of question of Survival?
It sort of feels like the only thing really connecting Jiyi's crew to the pre-Malvina Falcons is the Chitsu name and Jiyi himself.
On page 63 it is mentions that the Falcons on Sudeten had the First Falcon Sentinels, the freeborn Sudeten Garrison Cluster, and a short cluster of recently graduated Sibkos. Ultimately I estimate he had (roughly) 6 trinaries of mechs and tanks and 4 trinaries of troops with only a few stars of elementals.
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On page 63 it is mentions that the Falcons on Sudeten had the First Falcon Sentinels, the freeborn Sudeten Garrison Cluster, and a short cluster of recently graduated Sibkos. Ultimately I estimate he had (roughly) 6 trinaries of mechs and tanks and 4 trinaries of troops with only a few stars of elementals.
I hauled out my book last night to look for that and totally forgot to do so lol. Sitting right on my desk.
Thanks for that.
So add the couple possible Trinaries of cadets… a very short Galaxy
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I hauled out my book last night to look for that and totally forgot to do so lol. Sitting right on my desk.
Thanks for that.
So add the couple possible Trinaries of cadets… a very short Galaxy
Those are the graduated sibkos. As said in one or two novels and the sourcebook time is Jiyis only ally.
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On page 63 it is mentions that the Falcons on Sudeten had the First Falcon Sentinels, the freeborn Sudeten Garrison Cluster, and a short cluster of recently graduated Sibkos. Ultimately I estimate he had (roughly) 6 trinaries of mechs and tanks and 4 trinaries of troops with only a few stars of elementals.
Anyone remember how many bears he sibnapped?
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Pretty sure no numbers were given but it was "all the sibkos on the planet," which was a seriously large amount.
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Anyone remember how many bears he sibnapped?
Pretty sure no numbers were given but it was "all the sibkos on the planet," which was a seriously large amount.
And the sourcebook said that they were told directly that they would have a far greater shot at becoming warriors and seeing plenty of combat - greater chances than if they remained Bears.
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Specifically, Jiyi guaranteed that all of them would make warrior status regardless of whether or not they passed their first Trial of Position. And said that their chances of standing out and winning glory and distinction were much greater than in the extremely large military of the Dominion.
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I'm happily awaiting the future of both branches of the Falcons.
The Wolves had to deal with schism for nearly a century, it's the green birds turn now.
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A question about the sibkos Jiyi managed to scoop from the Bears: would they be eligable for bloodnames from the Bears if they open trials for it? Theoretically I would say yes as there are examples that warriors from other clans were allowed in said bloodname trials if they have the right heritage and a good codax. And second: could those warriors be used to form Falcon sibkos based on their genes? Or would that be prohibited?
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A question about the sibkos Jiyi managed to scoop from the Bears: would they be eligable for bloodnames from the Bears if they open trials for it? Theoretically I would say yes as there are examples that warriors from other clans were allowed in said bloodname trials if they have the right heritage and a good codax. And second: could those warriors be used to form Falcon sibkos based on their genes? Or would that be prohibited?
I got the impression (from Question of Survival) that Jiyi may establish new bloodnames probably to help expand the Falcons gene heritage.
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Any Khan is able to sponsor any candidate to start a new Bloodhouse through a Trial of Founding. New bloodhouses start with 10 bloodrights, but that number can be increased up to a cap of 25 though Trials of Propagation, or cut down via Trials of Reaving.
The Edict of Severance allows new Bloodhouses to be started using Bloodnames from Homeworld Clans.
There's a long tradition of eligible candidates from other clans coming back to compete for available bloodrights. In MW2: Ghost Bear Legacy, one of the contenders the player has to defeat at the end is a Smoke Jaguar.
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A question about the sibkos Jiyi managed to scoop from the Bears: would they be eligable for bloodnames from the Bears if they open trials for it? Theoretically I would say yes as there are examples that warriors from other clans were allowed in said bloodname trials if they have the right heritage and a good codax. And second: could those warriors be used to form Falcon sibkos based on their genes? Or would that be prohibited?
I would say they will be able to compete for Blood Names since in one of the sourcebooks, it said they would keep relations good with the Bears.
As far as their genes? Probably. At least the sibkos, but not the bondsman. Taking bondsmen doesn't confer rights to the genetic heritage, but I assume it's a part of the Trial of Possession. At least, Jiyi talking about creating new Bloodhouses from the freeborn warriors suggests it. I could be easily wrong, but this is my understanding.
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Anyone remember how many bears he sibnapped?
Looked up that and on Dominion Divided pg 62 it’s said he too over 50 sibkos cadets. So it stands to reason that 25 become Mechwarriors while the rest a regulated to infantry and tanks.
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It seems to me that warriors traveling to the holdings of another Clan(the one of their birth or otherwise) is probably a fairly run-of-the-mill thing, especially for Bloodnames that aren't exclusive to one Clan.
As I recall, something similar to this is what started the Falcon/Raven feud around the time of REVIVAL. There was a McKenna among the Falcons, and they refused to release him from his duties in order to attend a Bloodhouse function in Raven space, and this was considered a major thing. It's not actually about Bloodname Trials, but does tell us that traveling between Clans on business like that is usually allowed, for its denial to be a big deal.
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On page 63 it is mentions that the Falcons on Sudeten had the First Falcon Sentinels, the freeborn Sudeten Garrison Cluster, and a short cluster of recently graduated Sibkos. Ultimately I estimate he had (roughly) 6 trinaries of mechs and tanks and 4 trinaries of troops with only a few stars of elementals.
Looked up that and on Dominion Divided pg 62 it’s said he too over 50 sibkos cadets. So it stands to reason that 25 become Mechwarriors while the rest a regulated to infantry and tanks.
So back of the envelope. 1/3 Falcon, 1/3 Bear, and 1/3 Freeborn (former Lyran) . All without an experienced officer core and the institutional knowledge of the old touman.
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A question about the sibkos Jiyi managed to scoop from the Bears: would they be eligable for bloodnames from the Bears if they open trials for it? Theoretically I would say yes as there are examples that warriors from other clans were allowed in said bloodname trials if they have the right heritage and a good codax. And second: could those warriors be used to form Falcon sibkos based on their genes? Or would that be prohibited?
In addition to the above responses... in the Wars of Reaving, there was the example of a Steel Viper mechwarrior decanted with a claim to the Mattlov name. The Bloody IlKhan states that upon arrival to a bloodname trial the Falcons issued him a sabotaged 'mech which blew up inexplicably, killing said mechwarrior. Regardless of what actually happened and how, not to mention why, Andrews called it an example of Inner Sphere taint within the Falcons.
From an outside perspective, it's a great example of a Clan trying to gatekeep its exclusive bloodname lineages in spite of Clan law allowing for bloodlines to become shared in this way.
As for this case of Falcons and Bears, I doubt anything like this will happen, as they don't absolutely hate each other like the Vipers and Falcons did. But it is a facet of bloodname politics colliding with law.
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So back of the envelope. 1/3 Falcon, 1/3 Bear, and 1/3 Freeborn (former Lyran) . All without an experienced officer core and the institutional knowledge of the old touman.
I don't think I'd call any of the Freeborn contingent "former Lyran" unless they were bondsman or are from a planet conquered in the Dark Age. Most of the planets in the JF OZ have been part of it for longer than living memory.
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Considering that the freeborns would only have come from Jiyi's limited selection of worlds, they're most definitely not Lyrans. Jade Falcon lower castes recruits, mostly from Sudeten.
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It's hardly impossible that there are people on Sudeten that still identify as Lyran, but the odds that any of them would sign up with Jiyi are pretty nonexistent.
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Sudeten has been a Falcon world for a hundred years, that'd be like someone in their early 20s born and raised in Egypt identifying as British. And that's in the real world where strong nationalist tendencies tend to run much, much deeper than in BattleTech.
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All I'm saying is that you could theoretically find someone like that. Probably living in a creepy shack in the back woods somewhere, but still...
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All I'm saying is that you could theoretically find someone like that. Probably living in a creepy shack in the back woods somewhere, but still...
The closest you would get is anti-clan. There maybe some especially who had family in Hammarr and since Jiyi hasn’t publicly denounced Malvina for the person she was.
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The closest you would get is anti-clan. There maybe some especially who had family in Hammarr and since Jiyi hasn’t publicly denounced Malvina for the person she was.
He should, would certainly help his position, especially in recruiting ?
And take a target off his back, as Bears initially though he was mongol, same thing every other neighbour is wondering
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Sudeten has been a Falcon world for a hundred years, that'd be like someone in their early 20s born and raised in Egypt identifying as British. And that's in the real world where strong nationalist tendencies tend to run much, much deeper than in BattleTech.
By comparison though in the USA you still get people who think of themselves as "Irish" when it was their great-great grandparents who immigrated to the USA.
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I don't think I'd call any of the Freeborn contingent "former Lyran" unless they were bondsman or are from a planet conquered in the Dark Age. Most of the planets in the JF OZ have been part of it for longer than living memory.
The Falcons never made the effort to integrate their OZ into a state or into the Clan like the Bears did. Case in point, that 100 years later it's still an occupation zone. The 2-3 Statelet in the old OZ that were occupied by non-Clan/exClan powers faced almost 0 social resistance to being liberated from the lower castes, with some of the pre-Falcon social hierarchy starting to reassert itself. It feels weird to call them lower castes, when they are very different from the lower castes from the Homeworld.
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By comparison though in the USA you still get people who think of themselves as "Irish" when it was their great-great grandparents who immigrated to the USA.
That's not about nationalism (what Scotty was specifically talking about), but about ethnicity/shared culture, which I think is an important distinction to make in this particular discussion. Unless you honestly believe that there are people on this side of the pond identifying as "I'm formerly Irish" a century after their predecessors came here (there aren't).
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As far as the Bloodname goes (I don’t have references at the moment because it’s current 3am)..
There are a couple sources that discuss when warriors are taken in Trials of Possession (and I assume bondsmen too). They don’t automatically gain the genetic material of said subject, that in itself is a separate Trial. However Clans (pre-Reaving) had Bloodname politics between the various clans and switching Clans. IIRC Quinn Kerensky of the Falcons was one.
Bloodname Trials (obviously if they could get a sponsor) they would allow temporary ‘truces’ to allow travel and competition if necessary. Obviously sometimes they sabotaged it literally in terms of broken mechs but other times it was more subtle like timing, setting, seeding the brackets, etc.
One could argue that realistically if a younger Bloodnamed warrior was captured early on, and then rose to prominence in their new Clan (ala Jake Kabrinski) their would be good arguments for using their DNA for future sibko’s. However I’m specifically Jakes case IIRC they bargained (or Trialed) to both be able to use his genes (again not sure of source I think it was Masters and Minions?). Either way I’d agree some sort of Trial would have to take place.
Challenges for Bloodrights being common especially for the breeding rights: Coyotes had the few exceptions when it came to the Kerensky DNA thanks to Andery. But there are many exclusive to one clan, and non-exclusive Bloodrights not to mention the 300+ years of various Bloodright holders DNA to choose from for new sibko’s…. Which is why the heritage of each Bloodright is an important thing, yet another thing to go in your codex.
For example( throwing names out there, never thought about it for my own ‘character’ : I Tyler Jorgensson, my Bloodright for my Bloodname once from Aleksander Jorgensson (obviously descended from Hans like all Ghost Bears), was created using Aleksanders DNA and that of Aletha Kabrinski.l (descendant of Brian Kabrinski) etc
Theoretically in the Master Repository for the Clan (as well as each Bloodhouse Chapel) you’d have records detailing the history of the holders of each Bloodright, and theoretically the mixture of DNA used to create each sibko in one giant family genealogy back to the original founders).
Complicated, which is why they handed it off to the scientists lol
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Falcons took Quinn Kerensky at one time, but couldn't win any of trials of possession for her DNA or Bloodname (( no matter how much she wanted it herself
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A random question that just popped into my head the other day
In the Mechwarrior 2 CJF Opening video, what ship is that ?
Thanks
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I'm just going by memory, haven't watched it in a while, but I think the WarShip is a Lola III.
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I'm just going by memory, haven't watched it in a while, but I think the WarShip is a Lola III.
It looks like it, although amusingly the jade falcons don't HAVE a Lola III.
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No video game is canon.
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Okay, sad, unrepentant Falcon here.
So I'm planning an IWM buy. I use them to 'salt' my units - so I can use the KS nuplastics, often modded, but provide a sprinkling of era- and faction-specific models to solidly bed the units I make in their era. For example, I'm looking to get a Juliano, Scourge,m and Wendigo to go with my IlClan-era FWL battalion; a Lu Wei Bing and platoon of Nisos for my Late Republic Capellans; an Avatar for my Late Republic DCMS (going to make the dual HAG-30 J version!), and so on.
And I was planning on picking up a Jade Phoenix and two Hierofalcons for an IlClan-era Jade Falcon unit, ideally in the Falcon Remnant. There are 3 'Falcon' groups in ilClan-era:
- Alaric's 'Green Watch', aka Jade Falcon (Star League). Nope. Not touching them. Let alone having Tara Campbell involved. Ick! You do know where she's been!
- Aforementioned Falcon Remnant. But the 1st Falcon Sentinels - their really only Cluster - has the utterly unpaintable requirement of a giant falcon painted over the torso, plus additional falcon iconography. I can't paint that, not going to waste my time trying for a full Trinary. Oh, then there's the Sudeten Solhama cluster, mainly infantry (I may consider this sometime ...)
- The Alyina Mercantile League. Now the paint scheme is OK - appropriate camo, with light blue & grey trim. But I'm afraid Macarena and the AML don't feel insane enough to be Falcon-ish enough to give me that thrill.
And then it turns out only the AML, and their mercs, get to have Jade Phoenixes and Hierofalcons. Boo hiss!
So at this point, the money put aside to salt an IlClan-era Falcon unit is being allocated to building up flavour for a Shadow Division. Sad Falcon. Unrepentant.
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I'm just going by memory, haven't watched it in a while, but I think the WarShip is a Lola III.
Just looked it up on Sarna
Yep, Lola III
Thank you :cool:
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Okay, sad, unrepentant Falcon here.
So I'm planning an IWM buy. I use them to 'salt' my units - so I can use the KS nuplastics, often modded, but provide a sprinkling of era- and faction-specific models to solidly bed the units I make in their era. For example, I'm looking to get a Juliano, Scourge,m and Wendigo to go with my IlClan-era FWL battalion; a Lu Wei Bing and platoon of Nisos for my Late Republic Capellans; an Avatar for my Late Republic DCMS (going to make the dual HAG-30 J version!), and so on.
And I was planning on picking up a Jade Phoenix and two Hierofalcons for an IlClan-era Jade Falcon unit, ideally in the Falcon Remnant. There are 3 'Falcon' groups in ilClan-era:
- Alaric's 'Green Watch', aka Jade Falcon (Star League). Nope. Not touching them. Let alone having Tara Campbell involved. Ick! You do know where she's been!
- Aforementioned Falcon Remnant. But the 1st Falcon Sentinels - their really only Cluster - has the utterly unpaintable requirement of a giant falcon painted over the torso, plus additional falcon iconography. I can't paint that, not going to waste my time trying for a full Trinary. Oh, then there's the Sudeten Solhama cluster, mainly infantry (I may consider this sometime ...)
- The Alyina Mercantile League. Now the paint scheme is OK - appropriate camo, with light blue & grey trim. But I'm afraid Macarena and the AML don't feel insane enough to be Falcon-ish enough to give me that thrill.
And then it turns out only the AML, and their mercs, get to have Jade Phoenixes and Hierofalcons. Boo hiss!
So at this point, the money put aside to salt an IlClan-era Falcon unit is being allocated to building up flavour for a Shadow Division. Sad Falcon. Unrepentant.
So a couple options include both the Malthus Syndicate (not a popular option but who knows … flavor) and/or the two page Turkina Ascendancy (Barcelona, Newtown Square, Somerset).
Not much on either but that might be a bonus as you can paint them how you want them.
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Honestly I'd just paint them Delta galaxy and say they're 1st Falcon Sentinels when you feel the urge
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Or just ignore the MUL.
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*taps the "just because they're not on the list doesn't mean they don't have any sign" for the 900,000th time*
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*taps the "just because they're not on the list doesn't mean they don't have any sign" for the 900,000th time*
a good example is the Dragon, it doesn't apper on the FS and LC MULs but the idea there aren't Salvaged Dragons in the AFFS and LCAF by 3025 is preposterous.
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Look, I get it. I'm the last person to criticise what goes on, on someone's table, or painting desk.
But I like crafting my canon-friendly units, and enjoy working out what's available, and what's not. And trying to have some faction flavour in the result.
I'd probably be happy to justify a Hierofalcon and Jade Phoenix in the Falcon Remnant, except for the impossible scheme. Same reason I don't to coyote heads, cherry blossoms, or chains.
There's a vague possibility I may look at one of the merc units the AML uses, but ... I miss my Falcons!
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On a related note: plastic star(s)
I like the NuFalcons and I plan to get a clan star or 2. Among other things, because bright green can be painted real fast with Contrast paints so I have an OpFor.
So, I need a star or 2 that is "all comers". What are good boxed sets for the falcons? under that? I already have a timber wolf, that it it THE clan mech, so I am using one at least, but I am open for suggestions as I have NO IDEA about clan machines. I like the Gyrfalcon as well. If wit can be built with 2 or 3 boxed sets, the better. Any suggestions welcome.
Thank you!
Xavi
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On a related note: plastic star(s)
I like the NuFalcons and I plan to get a clan star or 2. Among other things, because bright green can be painted real fast with Contrast paints so I have an OpFor.
So, I need a star or 2 that is "all comers". What are good boxed sets for the falcons? under that? I already have a timber wolf, that it it THE clan mech, so I am using one at least, but I am open for suggestions as I have NO IDEA about clan machines. I like the Gyrfalcon as well. If wit can be built with 2 or 3 boxed sets, the better. Any suggestions welcome.
Thank you!
Xavi
For new plastic
Clan Fire Star: Warhawk, Nova Cat, Cougar, Kit Fox, Fire Moth
Clan Support Star: Night Gyr, Linebacker, Black Lanner, Battle Cobra, Arctic Cheetah
The bolded ones are pretty bog standard Falcon mechs.
Past those, find a summoner and a Hellbringer. Alternatively, the alpha strike box clans mechs are ilClan era falcons.
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That is an extremely useful response. Thank you!
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That is an extremely useful response. Thank you!
I should say battle cobra and cougar aren’t cliche Falcon mechs during the invasion of that is your focus. Falcons picked up the battle cobra in Jihad/dark ages IIRC. They made the cougar after the invasion.
There’s also the Turkina and fire Falcon as good Falcon designs to grab, but they are in packs that aren’t very Jade falcon-y
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I should say battle cobra and cougar aren’t cliche Falcon mechs during the invasion of that is your focus. Falcons picked up the battle cobra in Jihad/dark ages IIRC. They made the cougar after the invasion.
There’s also the Turkina and fire Falcon as good Falcon designs to grab, but they are in packs that aren’t very Jade falcon-y
I mean most people (IMO) know of the Cougar from the MechWarrior video games where it is a Jade Falcon staple.
Definitely a Summoner, Hellbringer, and Turkina but as stated they’ll rest of the plastic mechs in those packs arnt the best for ALL Falcons. But as Church suggested those two packs worth pretty well. Odd men out (Linebacker and Nova Cat) can be explained by salvage but they’re not very Falcon-y (Nova Cat and Night Gyr are really the same to me so I guess that works: the Linebacker… yeah not so much). The Fire Moth and Arctic Cheetah are common enough mechs for anyone to use.
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Every Omni in the Invasion outside of a small handful are common enough that they'll show up anywhere. If your mechs are painted in Falcon colors it doesn't matter what they are, it's Falcon-y enough.
This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, just a general dissatisfaction with the relatively common refrain that to be 'properly' X or Y faction you have to fit as many stereotypes as possible.
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All of the original sixteen definitely. Everyone had a few.
I was looking for packs that hit cliche Falcon designs so that if I see that binary, I at least guess CJF force.
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So at this point, the money put aside to salt an IlClan-era Falcon unit is being allocated to building up flavour for a Shadow Division. Sad Falcon. Unrepentant.
Sad falcon indeed. On another note, Blake Eleison!
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Yup, it's kinda win-win either way, innit? :evil:
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Sure is! What do you mean by 'building up flavour?' Some Clan Omnis/Celestials/SL/FWLM designs?
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Begging the favour of my trothkin here ... Yup. I've got a full Level II of the Celestials already, but at the moment getting a Deva, Seraph, and Preta, along with Toyama and Legacy (they have to mix well with Classics). Groundwise, lashing out on three Tau Zombies and three Tau Wraiths, along with a Bolla or two. And so on. I've done WoB Militia, WoB standard Division, Light of Mankind, and the "Shadow Lancers", so a Shadow Division is required to fill that gap.
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Kingfisher is an OG...
TT
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And should anyone care, I've resolved my IlClan-era Falcon predicament. By going both ways.
So for the ALM, I've decided to build two of the merc units employed by them - the Raging Horde, a BA-based merc mixing Clan and IS suits. I've already built them - a proof-of-concept how you can actually make useful Formations in AS - so they'll get upgraded with transports. I'll match them with IX Legion - an assault company, which will be able to use Jade Phoenixes and Hierofalcons, plus IS units off the KS. Yes taking the easy way - no vehicles to paint!
And for the Jade Falcon Remnants, I've decided to do a unit in the basic green & yellow, with falcon eyes & beaks (mini permitting - try putting a beak on a Grendel!). And they'll get a Shrike along with my leftover Clan minis, plus some of the IICs from the KS.
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Well done
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On this note again, this statement should be technically true, quiaff ?
In the end of "No Substitute for Victory" where Star Colonel Baxter is talked about spreading the news from Terra, Blackwatch and Stephanie's elevation to Khan
From this, it would be safe to say that Jiyi and Stephanie'a Falcons are one big happy family, as if Jiyi did not like the out come of the Battle of Terra, he would not allow Baxter to spread such news, and declare his Falcons as separate
And I know, really we need more cannon fiction (IKEO) ?
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No, I don't think that's safe to say at all. It's possible but we have no insight into the stability of the relationship (or lacktherof) between Stephanie and Jiyi. The fact that Jiyi isn't suppressing Baxter's news is not evidence that supports any conclusion more than another. It would be just as (if not more) accurate to suggest that Jiyi simply doesn't want to suppress the spread of information of any kind, as his style of leadership requires trust from his subordinates and suppressing information would run counter to that if it became known.
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Or the information got out before Jiyi became aware of it.
I can't see Jiyi (or Marena, for that matter) being very impressed by Stephanie, because she lost to the Wolves. Both Jiyi and Marena are trying to preserve some vision (their visions) of being Falcon. We used to call the Exiled Wolves "the Lyran lapdogs", quiaff? What would we call those sworn to Alaric's service - "Jade Wolves", perhaps?
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"Green Chickens." Or possibly parrots.
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Or the information got out before Jiyi became aware of it.
I can't see Jiyi (or Marena, for that matter) being very impressed by Stephanie, because she lost to the Wolves. Both Jiyi and Marena are trying to preserve some vision (their visions) of being Falcon. We used to call the Exiled Wolves "the Lyran lapdogs", quiaff? What would we call those sworn to Alaric's service - "Jade Wolves", perhaps?
Malvina lost. Stephanie was there, sure, but out of all the senior officers present at Terra I'd be surprised if Stephanie wasn't the least disliked outside of Malvina's hardliners.
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It's so hard to predict how Jiyi and Stephanie would interact. They're both forward thinkers who seem to want what's genuinely best for their people and are willing to think outside of the box to do it (which is pretty rare in the Falcons' ranks as it is), and I feel like there's a solid chance that they'd come to some sort of an accord... but then again, Jiyi's also the big fish in the now-little pond that is the JFOZ, and Stephanie Chistu would threaten that position. And that's to say nothing of Alaric, who could either ignore Jiyi's Falcons as worthless trash that wasn't good enough to fight for Terra or stick his nose in and try to force Jiyi to bend the knee.
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My complete guess is that Jiyi and Stephaine would both recognize that there's not really much they can do about the other. But they both would have a certain level of disdain for the other which will stop them from joining the other. Jiyi's Falcons would see the Stephanie's Falcons as the Wolves' lapdogs, and Stephanie's Falcons would see Jiyi's Falcons as the dregs of their Clan. So, it will be stalemate for a while for the two.
Alaric is a wild card though and might change that.
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Alaric is a wild card though and might change that.
Is he? He claimed the falcons as his - which by clan custom is basically is right. Why would he treat Jiyi as anything resembling an equal. Unless Alaric’s been broken and decides cooperation and bridge building is his new thing, I see him demanding they fall in line behind “their Khan” Stephanie Chistu.
Jiyi and Stephanie’s interactions outside Alaric could be a cordial or even helpful one, but I see Alaric being a stressor to it
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My complete guess is that Jiyi and Stephaine would both recognize that there's not really much they can do about the other. But they both would have a certain level of disdain for the other which will stop them from joining the other. Jiyi's Falcons would see the Stephanie's Falcons as the Wolves' lapdogs, and Stephanie's Falcons would see Jiyi's Falcons as the dregs of their Clan. So, it will be stalemate for a while for the two.
Alaric is a wild card though and might change that.
The only “disdain” they would have for each other is disdain of their warriors and lower castes. Both are in a heck of a spot and a difficult road ahead. On the one hand we have Stephanie who has to repair the Falcons reputation (and touman) after Malvinas Mongols repeating some of Amaris’s best hits. On the other hand we have Jiyi who currently has no one to replace him if he should fall and currently (as of 3150) lacking the ability to rapidly expand his forces.
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It's so hard to predict how Jiyi and Stephanie would interact. They're both forward thinkers who seem to want what's genuinely best for their people and are willing to think outside of the box to do it (which is pretty rare in the Falcons' ranks as it is), and I feel like there's a solid chance that they'd come to some sort of an accord...
I thought Stephanie's only character trait was "knives"? :wink:
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I thought Stephanie's only character trait was "knives"? :wink:
And I stand by that assessment 100%. She's Walmart-brand Noritomo Helmer.
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There was something I do remember reading in "Tamar Rising" I think, where Jiyi said "we will not be Wolf Lap dogs", but then that was (as discussed here) technically "before" Colonel's Baxter's mention.
But frankly, I do not see Jiyi Falcons (and himself for that fact) bending the knee to Alaric, maybe cordial / "diplomatic" dialogue at most
Stephanie did not mess up, that was all The Not Named Hazen
I do see mutual friendship and respect, as "we cannot afford to be at odds"
Interesting total twist would be Alaric totally making a mess of things, and Stephanie leaves and joins Jiyi lol (but unlikely)
For all intents and purposes, what is a better name for Jiyi's Falcons ? (Besides "Jiyi's Falcons) "Remnants" has such a negative vibe imho
Also, what would be the "official" logos for both Stephanie and Jiyi's Falcons ? I know the big Green traditional Jade Falcon, but for each of them, is the one from Tamar Rising official for Jiyi, and for Stephanie, some type of "Golden Talon" Keshik look, with a Blackwatch symbol / SLDF star in it ?
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For all intents and purposes, what is a better name for Jiyi's Falcons ? (Besides "Jiyi's Falcons) "Remnants" has such a negative vibe imho
Also, what would be the "official" logos for both Stephanie and Jiyi's Falcons ? I know the big Green traditional Jade Falcon, but for each of them, is the one from Tamar Rising official for Jiyi, and for Stephanie, some type of "Golden Talon" Keshik look, with a Blackwatch symbol / SLDF star in it ?
Remnants is accurate. In universe, they are the shreds of a once potent clan. Survival of neither is guaranteed and a single big loss could be the end of them. There’s more surviving RAF than Falcons in May 3151. Remnants might feel negative, but that’s what they are. Only out of universe do we know for sure that Jiyi’s mob will survive.
As for logo: really, both should stick with the Jade Falcon logo. Stephanie Chistu is the Khan of the survivors of the Falcon touman, has the “legitimacy” as part of Alaric’s so called league. Why should she concede the Falcon logo to shreds in the OZ that won’t listen and obey? On the other side, IIRC Jiyi - correctly to me - recognizes Stephanie’s Falcons as little more than Clan wolf units. Why would he, the only Falcon leader left, give the Jade Falcon iconography to the wolves?
That said, if one must change, Jiyi altering the logo as part of ushering in a new Jade Falcon culture fits better.
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As for logo: really, both should stick with the Jade Falcon logo. Stephanie Chistu is the Khan of the survivors of the Falcon touman, has the “legitimacy” as part of Alaric’s so called league.
Did I missed something? Ilclan accepted Jiyi's touman as legit Falcons?
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Did I missed something? Ilclan accepted Jiyi's touman as legit Falcons?
Not sure what I typed that made it read like that. The falcons on Terra under Stephanie Chistu have the ‘legitimacy’ of the backing of the Wolves and Alaric as ilclan. Jiyi’s falcons do not. So I don’t see Stephanie Chistu conceding anything to Jiyi on iconography or naming.
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Stephenie is the one with the greater legitimacy, having been elected Khan by the bloodnamed of clan jade falcon. Jiyi has VERY little legitimacy, and is a "self declared khan" there is a reason why he specificly did NOT use the rank of Khan when issuing a challange to clan ghost bear for the sibko cadets
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Jiyi's legitimacy stems from the ultimate source of all authority in the Clans: I said so, fight me about it.
Declining to call himself Khan is a calculated move designed to avoid pissing off someone who can beat him, like every political move a savvy Clan Warrior has ever made.
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Jiyi's legitimacy stems from the ultimate source of all authority in the Clans: I said so, fight me about it.
Declining to call himself Khan is a calculated move designed to avoid pissing off someone who can beat him, like every political move a savvy Clan Warrior has ever made.
well yeah obviously,
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Not sure what I typed that made it read like that. The falcons on Terra under Stephanie Chistu have the ‘legitimacy’ of the backing of the Wolves and Alaric as ilclan. Jiyi’s falcons do not. So I don’t see Stephanie Chistu conceding anything to Jiyi on iconography or naming.
I confuse Stephanie with Jiyi now. Apparently two Falcon clans are one too many for me.
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Is he? He claimed the falcons as his - which by clan custom is basically is right. Why would he treat Jiyi as anything resembling an equal. Unless Alaric’s been broken and decides cooperation and bridge building is his new thing, I see him demanding they fall in line behind “their Khan” Stephanie Chistu.
Jiyi and Stephanie’s interactions outside Alaric could be a cordial or even helpful one, but I see Alaric being a stressor to it
I meant that he might force a confrontation when Stephanie might be more focused on rebuilding her forces. I absolutely did not mean to suggest Alaric considers Jiyi (or anyone) his equal. That's just not his style.
There was something I do remember reading in "Tamar Rising" I think, where Jiyi said "we will not be Wolf Lap dogs", but then that was (as discussed here) technically "before" Colonel's Baxter's mention.
But frankly, I do not see Jiyi Falcons (and himself for that fact) bending the knee to Alaric, maybe cordial / "diplomatic" dialogue at most
Stephanie did not mess up, that was all The Not Named Hazen
I do see mutual friendship and respect, as "we cannot afford to be at odds"
Interesting total twist would be Alaric totally making a mess of things, and Stephanie leaves and joins Jiyi lol (but unlikely)
For all intents and purposes, what is a better name for Jiyi's Falcons ? (Besides "Jiyi's Falcons) "Remnants" has such a negative vibe imho
Also, what would be the "official" logos for both Stephanie and Jiyi's Falcons ? I know the big Green traditional Jade Falcon, but for each of them, is the one from Tamar Rising official for Jiyi, and for Stephanie, some type of "Golden Talon" Keshik look, with a Blackwatch symbol / SLDF star in it ?
I prefer:
Jiyi = Clan Jade Falcon
Stephanie = Blackwatch Falcon
Though if you want a non-biased version, I'll use Jiyi's Falcons. Appropriate since they are, at least right now, it is very much a Cult of personality. Without him, they wouldn't exist.
As for symbols, both will likely keep the standard Jade Falcon logo since both claim they are the legitimate Falcons. I could see the Blackwatch Falcons changing there's to reflect their duty as the Blackwatch.
Stephenie is the one with the greater legitimacy, having been elected Khan by the bloodnamed of clan jade falcon. Jiyi has VERY little legitimacy, and is a "self declared khan" there is a reason why he specificly did NOT use the rank of Khan when issuing a challange to clan ghost bear for the sibko cadets
That wasn't legitimancy. That was he didn't want the Ghost Bears target him or bid more than he can handle.
EDIT: Added in a few more responses to avoid double posting.
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I meant that he might force a confrontation when Stephanie might be more focused on rebuilding her forces. I absolutely did not mean to suggest Alaric considers Jiyi (or anyone) his equal. That's just not his style.
Ah. Fair enough.
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I forget the numbers at the end of the battle for Terra. Stephanie Chistu's (Black Watch) Falcons couldn't have more than 1 or 2 clusters worth of Mechwarriors, Elementals, and Aerospace, correct?
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I forget the numbers at the end of the battle for Terra. Stephanie Chistu's (Black Watch) Falcons couldn't have more than 1 or 2 clusters worth of Mechwarriors, Elementals, and Aerospace, correct?
Something like 120 warriors, walking wounded included IIRC
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There were 128 warriors—including wounded—left on Terra. That was before Stephanie Chistu fought and slew Tomaszewski Mattlov, so make that 127 Jade Falcon warriors left.
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There were 128 warriors—including wounded—left on Terra. That was before Stephanie Chistu fought and slew Tomaszewski Mattlov, so make that 127 Jade Falcon warriors left.
That's on terra though. Their a few in space and probably Mars (wounded), and then Chistu picked up another 2-3ish during no substitute for victory when she sent heralds into their old OZ to announce the coming of the ilClan. Given the number of Falcon world and the limited operational scope of AML and Jiyi, they're probably a few 10s of warriors to collect that never made it to terra.
Not enough to strategically change anything, but enough for an author to summon a trinary into existence without diminishing the total count.
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That's on terra though. Their a few in space and probably Mars (wounded), and then Chistu picked up another 2-3ish during no substitute for victory when she sent heralds into their old OZ to announce the coming of the ilClan. Given the number of Falcon world and the limited operational scope of AML and Jiyi, they're probably a few 10s of warriors to collect that never made it to terra.
Not enough to strategically change anything, but enough for an author to summon a trinary into existence without diminishing the total count.
Wouldn’t have been any on Mars. Every ground troop available would have been on Terra for the trial. The 127 wouldn’t include warship crews, but I’d wager all naval assets that could be deployed planetside were. I’d be shocked than any elemental marine or warship ASF escort stayed in space.
A planet in the OZ in HotW was shown with 2 mechs and no elementals or other assets. So a handful of warriors spread across the OZ, most collected by Jiyi, the Merchant Factor, and the Turkina Ascendancy. You’d maybe get a few people per planet for the old OZ worlds between Tamar and Terra. So maaaaybe 20-40 warriors tops? You’re right. A random star or trinary can appear, but no numbers that should affect the strategic map.
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There could definitely be a couple on Mars, there's at least one Falcon Galaxy that landed there and it's entirely possible for a pilot to have been shot down and survived but not been recovered.
That number is going to be tiny if it's greaterc than zero at all, but it's possible.
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There could definitely be a couple on Mars, there's at least one Falcon Galaxy that landed there and it's entirely possible for a pilot to have been shot down and survived but not been recovered.
That number is going to be tiny if it's greaterc than zero at all, but it's possible.
Sixth Falcon Jaegers and the Ninth Falcon Talon. Just two clusters. They aren’t namechecked later in ilclan, but they are from Gamma Galaxy. Falcon’s Gamma was shown fighting in a few other locations.
Moreso, I think all Falcon troops on mats would have come for the ilClan trial. Malvina knew she was outnumbered, knew she needed every soldier. I find it hard to believe she didn’t empty everything she could to fight that fight. I’ve got good reason to assume that every Falcon warrior capable of fighting planetside was indeed planetside.
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Every Falcon warrior recovered and not MIA. I'm not suggesting they'd have been left behind on purpose, but to suggest it's impossible that none could have possibly been missing for any reason is as much of a stretch in the other direction.
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Hello Falcon Fans,
I'm hoping you can assist me.
One of the few books I never got was the JFSB.
Even my current falcon sourcebooks (F&W, FM:CC, FM:U) are currently stored.
I'm looking for any added info about 2 Falcon Clusters that I can't pull off Sarna.
1st FALCON JAEGERS
3052 - PANDORA - ? - Lost Half Omnimechs & Many Elementals to GDL
3054 - LA GRAVE - ?
3057 - ? - ? - Refusal War?
3059 - DOMPAIRE - 5 Trinaries / 2 Aerospace
3079 - KONIZ - 100% OMNI
5th TALON
3052 - ? - ? -
3054 - LA GRAVE - ? -
3057 - ? - ? - Minor Damage Refusal War but Lost Strength to Reorganization
3059 - ? - 5 Binaries -
3079 - TRELL I - -50% - 40% OMNI
I'm looking to get a better feel for their Location, Strength, & Force Makeup in the 50's which is why I don't have anything from the RotS era above.
For example:
The Double ASF Trinary of the Jaegers is mentioned in 3059, but, did they always have 2 Trinary ASF? OR, Is that due to their losses on Pandora & Refusal War & then rebuilt as ASF Heavy?
The 5th Talon mentions losses to Reorg post Refusal War which would explain being only 5 binaries in 3059, so were they 5 Trinaries during revival?
I don't know, so I'm coming to you all :)
I'm specifically looking for JFSB material since I don't own that book at all, but, if you happen to have anything from other sources that I don't have access to at this time I'll take that too so I won't have to wait till I get them from storage.
Thank you all,
Much appreciated for anything you can help me clarify!!
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Sorry to say neither of those units appear in the big phone directories in the second half of the JFSB.
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Sorry to say neither of those units appear in the big phone directories in the second half of the JFSB.
Well that's a bummer, I saw the data about facing the GDL during Revival & assumed that at least that cluster was in there :(
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Gyrfalcon Galaxy has some interesting things about where they were during REVIVAL, mayhaps there lies what you seek, Seeker, quiaff?
TT
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Gyrfalcon Galaxy has some interesting things about where they were during REVIVAL, mayhaps there lies what you seek, Seeker, quiaff?
I'm not seeing anything about that Galaxy for either of the 2 clusters I'm looking at sadly :(
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Well that's a bummer, I saw the data about facing the GDL during Revival & assumed that at least that cluster was in there :(
Day of Heroes may have something in it that could be pertinent, as it was the 2nd of the GDL sourcebooks from back then and certainly covers the Pandora fighting IIRC. I don't remember it going too heavy on the Jade Falcon forces though.
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1st Jagers, Dompaire, Delta was there, follow Delta's history.
Same with 5th Talon, Babaeski, also Delta, follow their path backwards.
Also Wotan in 3050, entire Galaxy stationed there, pre-Jade Wolf conflict.
Looks like Maxie's Planet is the start of it all, reading the descriptions, sometimes it pays to backtrack every entered detail. (305th Assault)
But it's tedious...
TT
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Objective Raids p 31 seems to be the first appearance of these clusters. The 1st Falcon Jaegers are listed as part of Gamma Galaxy and are stationed on La Grave. The 5th Talon is part of Rho Galaxy and are on Toland.
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Regarding the future of the Jade Falcons, I personally hope that the two "clans" of Falcons merge into one clan. The Falcons that were left behind will create a viable empire and the Falcons that survive Terra will protect Alaric. Eventually, the Jade Falcons in this new empire will provide the soldiers for the future Jade Falcon Black Watch. An elite unit will eventually lose their status if the only thing they are allowed to do is train. Having this Jade Falcon Empire provide combat opportunities to their soldiers will allow the Falcons to keep their warriors elite.
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I will be massively disappointed if the Falcon factions merge. I'm excited to see the Remnant go in a new direction and provide some desperately needed innovation to Falcon culture.
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I will be massively disappointed if the Falcon factions merge. I'm excited to see the Remnant go in a new direction and provide some desperately needed innovation to Falcon culture.
As mentioned in the forums before, perhaps one day all the Factions of the Hinterlands will be a new "Tamar Pact", where each faction is sovereign, but on the council and have a rotating leader or speaker ? Said Pact to protect the Hinterlands region, especially from the Horses, pirates, etc
As much as I would like to see the two combine, I think there is too much writing potential to have them do that in the immediate future. As current states, that the two have not even begun proper communication, just assumed knowledge of each other. And also they have a major bridge or gripe to mend, Jiyi "You are nothing but Wolf Lapdogs, the new Jade Wolves, we have our core territory, sikbos, our war machine pumping out baby Turkina's like mad"
Stephanie could react in a number of ways, from demanding he falls inline behind her (and Alaric), sympasize with how they survived and made a "new" Jade Falcon, wanting to reunite straight away, again lots of writing potential and 10 years (in universe) of ilClan Era time
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I would be disappointed if they join back up. I like the split in the falcons. AML isn’t personally engaging to me, but seeing three different paths in how Falcons come to terms with their greatest failure and with Malvina’s legacy is more engaging than “and then the falcons suffered 99% losses to their military, but rebuilt right back in the old OZ.”
Similarly, the Empire reuniting with Alaric is the least interesting path forward.
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I would be disappointed if they join back up. I like the split in the falcons. AML isn’t personally engaging to me, but seeing three different paths in how Falcons come to terms with their greatest failure and with Malvina’s legacy is more engaging than “and then the falcons suffered 99% losses to their military, but rebuilt right back in the old OZ.”
Similarly, the Empire reuniting with Alaric is the least interesting path forward.
"Empire" you mean wolf or the coined "Falcon Empire" in above posts, if it is the latter, again what was said in forums, would be more of a "Jade Hegemony" having all three parts of the Falcon
Are not the Empire Wolves currently "annoyed" (put it lightly) at Alaric, as they have been left to fend on their own
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"Empire" you mean wolf or the coined "Falcon Empire" in above posts, if it is the latter, again what was said in forums, would be more of a "Jade Hegemony" having all three parts of the Falcon
Are not the Empire Wolves currently "annoyed" (put it lightly) at Alaric, as they have been left to fend on their own
I meant the Wolf Empire. At this point they have been left out to dry for 18 months. No support, guidance, communications, anything after Alaric took everything he deemed of value they could defend themselves with. The idea that after all that, they gleefully rejoin without some level of hostility would be extremely unsatisfying.
It is in a similar boat to Jiyi and AML. None of those left behind and abandoned should be eager to rejoin those who abandoned them.
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The question is if Jiyi will buy the Falcon's dismissal of the Mongol doctrine. I get the feeling that most of his Falcons are more pragmatic and less fanatic. Then again who knows how long he can keep his 3 world realm together. And I doubt the Ilclan can send anything to help the Hinterland Falcons as they are most likely tied up with the Capellans
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"Empire" you mean wolf or the coined "Falcon Empire" in above posts, if it is the latter, again what was said in forums, would be more of a "Jade Hegemony" having all three parts of the Falcon
There is no “Falcon Empire” or “Jade Hegemony”, so it’s safe to assume that no one’s going to refer to these made-up fanfic terms in a canonical discussion.
The question is if Jiyi will buy the Falcon's dismissal of the Mongol doctrine. I get the feeling that most of his Falcons are more pragmatic and less fanatic. Then again who knows how long he can keep his 3 world realm together. And I doubt the Ilclan can send anything to help the Hinterland Falcons as they are most likely tied up with the Capellans
I don’t see why that would be a question. It’s not like the Falcons were universally Mongol adherents, and Clanners generally don’t lie, so this seems like a non-issue. The actual question will be whether Jiyi will acknowledge and submit to the results of the ilClan Trial.
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As I said a few pages back, Jiyi's Falcons are made up of the people who were told they weren't good enough to go to Terra and fight. There's no reason that they'd be eager to rejoin with the Falcons on Terra.
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Oh, I don’t see them rejoining, either, but we’ve seen plenty of random 180s in this franchise in the name of putting Plot before Character, so who can really say? But I do think that, one way or the other, there will be a reckoning of some kind.
Personally, I don’t care either way. The AML is far more interesting to me, and I wouldn’t lose any sleep if Fulk Lassanerra brings the Bucephalus back to Sudeten and glasses it off the map. Jiyi doesn’t feel like an actual character, he feels like a plot device, and his faction is so much a cult of personality that I can’t see it lasting beyond his death.
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There's a considerable amount of interesting things that can be done with the AML but I have a feeling that it's going to be left mostly in the background.
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Can’t have anything taking away from the glory of ClanSeaFoxShark! :laugh:
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Can’t have anything taking away from the glory of ClanSeaFoxShark! :laugh:
Two different things. The AML is strictly interested in finance. They make their money through interest, not moving goods around. Much easier. The Sea Foxes will sell you the goods, but the AML will lend you the money to buy.
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Two different things. The AML is strictly interested in finance. They make their money through interest, not moving goods around. Much easier. The Sea Foxes will sell you the goods, but the AML will lend you the money to buy.
I was joking (hence the emoji), but okay.
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There is no “Falcon Empire” or “Jade Hegemony”, so it’s safe to assume that no one’s going to refer to these made-up fanfic terms in a canonical discussion.
I was meaning metaphorically or using these terms to roughly describe what could happen, hence the quotes, or these names as a placeholder word, describing a system, rather than name
As in IF the three Falcon factions did unite, it would be "like" a "Jade Hegemony", as the different styles of each faction
But even if that is on the cards, it's a long way off in the ilClan timeline. I again can see possibly AML and Jiyi allying against the Horses, and more the new "Tamar Pact" arc, as said in previous posts, lots of writing potential
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Especially with how they wrote Jiyi and the new Tamar Pact I can see the Falcon Remnants being absorbed but not destroyed. Maybe some of you think that’s sacrilege but Jiyi is in a tight spot. Right now he has no heir to the Falcon Remnant and since most of the Falcon holdings either went silent or Warlord he knows what may come from his handful of systems. If he can preserve at least a part of the Falcon identity he will do whatever it takes. Even bowing to another opponent.
I also think that any Mongol followers are closer to Terra or have perished. I think that Jiyi has heard of Clan Wolf being declared the iClan but is still wait and see.
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I also think that any Mongol followers are closer to Terra or have perished. I think that Jiyi has heard of Clan Wolf being declared the iClan but is still wait and see.
I would expect that the entire IS knows by now who won the battle for Terra. I think the Falcon remnant learned it at the latest when they scooped up those Bear sibkos as I would suspect that the captured Bears share this particular piece of news.
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I mean, it says straight up in Tamar Rising that Jiyi is aware of the Wolf victory, learning of it through the capture and interrogation of the Scientist-General who'd assumed governorship of Sudeten, and also resolved to not bow down to Alaric and his Wolves. There's no real need to speculate about a lot of this stuff because it's already there, in print.
As for what Stephanie Chistu and her remnant Falcons are going to do about Jiyi and his remnant Falcons... honestly, I doubt they're even a blip on her radar right now. They have a new purpose now, a new Star League to help build, and no shortage of more immediate concerns (and enemies) to give a damn about what goes on in the Hinterlands.
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There's no real need to speculate about a lot of this stuff because it's already there, in print.
Seriously. I'm not exactly suggesting there be a required reading list to participate in the thread but maybe some rereading of Tamar Rising is in order.
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Moved for relevant discussion.
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That era has never really gotten much fiction. There are some short stories that cover various parts of it but no full-length novels that I'm aware of.
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But comments aside, just thought I would ask in here, as opposed to making a new thread, what are the best novels for Terran Hegemony / 1st Star League, including Brush Wars ? ---Thanks
This really does need to be in a thread of its own.
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Ah ok thanks. What about Brush Wars coming up ?
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This really does need to be in a thread of its own.
I would put it in the Inner Sphere board, quiaff ?
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Ah ok thanks. What about Brush Wars coming up ?
Again, needs to be in a thread of its own. This is for Jade Falcon discussion, not unrelated-and-unreleased-products-discussion.
New Products Thread: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,82020.0.html
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Again, needs to be in a thread of its own. This is for Jade Falcon discussion, not unrelated-and-unreleased-products-discussion.
New Products Thread: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,82020.0.html
Though it was relevant as had to do with TH, bit of Blackwatch stuff, new thread in Inner Sphere, quiaff ?
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Really getting into Terran Hegemony and (1st) Star League now, did a deep dive on Elizabeth Hazen last night on Sarna, lovely detail there, especially the newer portrait.
Also getting a feel for potential writing for ilClan Era, Blackwatch Falcons (as it has been mentioned here that Falcons/history were pretty close to the TH) and how they can do Blackwatch, will they work Tara (as written to rid themselves of The Not Named Hazen's legacy/reputation) and be more friendly with the Highlanders ? Just going on common "ancient" history ?
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We don't really know yet what's going to happen with Tara, and personally, I'm pretty disgusted that BLP made her a Clan bondswoman and then had the Wolves and Falcons passing her around like a trading card. This is so grossly out-of-character for Tara to basically betray the Republic (to which she was a legitimate and genuine patriot) and submit to the two Clans that have caused her and her people the most direct harm. But it is what it is. Just another HotW head-scratcher to add to the pile.
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I can only hope that the Ghost Bears that Jiyi captured become his commanders. Ghost Falcons FTW!
Although admittedly I don’t like a green Kodiak….
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We don't really know yet what's going to happen with Tara, and personally, I'm pretty disgusted that BLP made her a Clan bondswoman and then had the Wolves and Falcons passing her around like a trading card. This is so grossly out-of-character for Tara to basically betray the Republic (to which she was a legitimate and genuine patriot) and submit to the two Clans that have caused her and her people the most direct harm. But it is what it is. Just another HotW head-scratcher to add to the pile.
I'm in the middle of re-reading the entire MWDA section of the novel line & Tara's "fate" in HotW is absolutely "grossly out-of-character" to an insulting degree.
But, I guess we take the fiction as it is & I hope (via future writer) her drastic mischaracterization and previous characterizations can be reconciled via some internal monologue or something that'd support -waves broadly- where we find ourselves today. Preferably with Campbell being honored as a new Bloodname down the road if she stays with CJF and doesn't return somehow to the Highlanders.
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Really getting into Terran Hegemony and (1st) Star League now, did a deep dive on Elizabeth Hazen last night on Sarna, lovely detail there, especially the newer portrait.
Also getting a feel for potential writing for ilClan Era, Blackwatch Falcons (as it has been mentioned here that Falcons/history were pretty close to the TH) and how they can do Blackwatch, will they work Tara (as written to rid themselves of The Not Named Hazen's legacy/reputation) and be more friendly with the Highlanders ? Just going on common "ancient" history ?
… and doesn't return somehow to the Highlanders.
There’s a nonzero chance Tara Campbell-Wolf-Jade Falcon gets shot in the face the first time she tries to reach out in person to the NWH. And she would deserve it. There’s every reason for bad blood between NWH and Alaric’s Falcons. There’s no reason for good blood.
There might be interesting ways to recover her throughly assassinated in HotW character, but “builds a bridge between falcons and NWH” is not one of them.
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Now that you’ve put that out in the universe, watch TPTB use Tara Campbell to merge the Black Watch Falcons and the Northwind Highlanders together, all the brainchild of Knives Chistu. :headbang:
Good lord, if ever a book in this franchise needed a redo, it’s HotW.
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My headcanon is that she was so doped up on painkillers after injuries she sustained during the fight that she thought she was agreeing to a guest appearance on Saturday Night Live.
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At least via Shrapnel we know her sister is doing her best to keep Northwind safe and independent, not just rolling over like Tara.
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Now that you’ve put that out in the universe, watch TPTB use Tara Campbell to merge the Black Watch Falcons and the Northwind Highlanders together, all the brainchild of Knives Chistu. :headbang:
:grin:
Would it be that bad of a thing ? As (Blackwatch) Falcons rebuilding, newer evolving culture in new Star League, integrating, mending bridges. Seems that Tara has been set up as a plot catalyst to branch new fiction. After all, (proper) Falcons have their history in the Terran Hegemony and Blackwatch, which was great buddies with Northwind Highlanders
And Campbell bloodname would be nice, showing more integration, as let's face it, the new Star League is going to be a big mixer (As soon as Alaric realizes this, and relaxes some of his attitudes, real development can begin)
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:grin:
Would it be that bad of a thing?
Yes.
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Yes.
Well not merge fully, but more friendlier relations
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:grin:
Would it be that bad of a thing ? As (Blackwatch) Falcons rebuilding, newer evolving culture in new Star League, integrating, mending bridges. Seems that Tara has been set up as a plot catalyst to branch new fiction. After all, (proper) Falcons have their history in the Terran Hegemony and Blackwatch, which was great buddies with Northwind Highlanders
And Campbell bloodname would be nice, showing more integration, as let's face it, the new Star League is going to be a big mixer (As soon as Alaric realizes this, and relaxes some of his attitudes, real development can begin)
Yes. Because it would be unearned and read like Mary Sue garbage. Yes, I'm aware how much baggage the term has, but Alaric's Wolves just magically making people like them after all the damage they've done to everyone near them for the last 20 years in universe requires Mary Sue levels of crap writing. It's part of why HotW was so bad. Why we hate Tara's - I'm using the word generously here - story in HotW.
1) It would require more inner sphere groups to bafflingly just become friendly to clan oppressors who just destroyed their way of life, their dreams of a peaceful sphere. Alaric sent out a message that said "I own the universe and everything in it, it will be mine." NWH (which is all RAF at this point) would recognize the start of a Reunification war, which stands against all their beliefs.
2) In universe, the Falcons are still seen as butchers, as they should. "Hey man, we totally turned a new leaf" would sound like a crock and expecting their neighbors to believe it any time soon defies plausibility. Long term, over like... 10-20+ years, maybe Falcons could salvage their reputation. There should be bad blood, revenge killings, refusal to allow falcons to retreat unmolested or surrender, etc. for a long time.
3) This "connection" between the Falcons and NWH isn't a thing. I don't get why people think a group that has, for years, watched Falcons slaughter their fellow soldiers, murder the civilians they swore to protect, and destroy the nation they believed in would get along with the Falcons. More plausible is NWH shoots every falcon on sight, including Tara.
There are interesting paths forward for the Terran falcons. Pretending Tara could mend wounds with NWH is not one of them.
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The only way I'll be properly happy about Tara Campbell's current predicament is if she takes to heart the Clan concept of second in commands and is incredibly confrontational and belligerent at all times while working to actively ****** over whoever happens to be ahead of her in the standings until they die.
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Maybe it's just me, but I feel like a lot of MWDA-era characters have fared really poorly post-WizKids. Tara, Jasek Kelswa-Steiner, Jacob Bannson, Katana Tormark, Lars Magnusson... and yes, even Malvina Hazen and Cynthy, and even Alaric to a large degree. The ones that didn't end up dead or disappeared suffered some pretty jarring shifts in characterization. It's made it that much harder to invest in the post-Dark Age era, because so many characters I was invested in are gone or unrecognizable, and their replacements (looking at you, Knives Chistu) are bland and forgettable. And that's to say nothing of the Republic's fate.
The only way I'll be properly happy about Tara Campbell's current predicament is if she takes to heart the Clan concept of second in commands and is incredibly confrontational and belligerent at all times while working to actively ****** over whoever happens to be ahead of her in the standings until they die.
If she kills Stephanie Chistu with a throwing knife, I will literally buy a dozen copies of the book.
This "connection" between the Falcons and NWH isn't a thing.
The Blood Spirits had stronger ties to them (specifically to the RBW) than the Falcons ever did, anyway.
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There is an angle with Elizabeth Hazen but it has generally been wildly overblow (guilty as charged), so it's not as though it was invented from whole cloth at least.
Ultimately the only real thing I care about is having some kind of distinct culture from the Wolves and the rest of the "SLDF", preferably a distinction that is interesting but I'll take the presence of a distinction before I complain about its quality.
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Agreed. There’s good opportunity for Falcons to be a vivid, if small, entity of their own in Alaric’s mob. They need to be distinct or they’re basically just a clan wolf cluster in weird paint.
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There might be interesting ways to recover her throughly assassinated in HotW character, but “builds a bridge between falcons and NWH” is not one of them.
At no point did I explicitly state or imply in any way "builds a bridge." I literally phrased it as an either/or situation. I neither need nor want the Highlanders to suddenly become buddy-buddy with either Wolves or Falcons; that's even less logical than anything that's happened in the recent storyline thus far. We already have a crap sandwich, the story isn't going to be retconned, y'all need to deal with that reality with the entirety of the IlClan era. My comment is the hope that we -either- get a story of what Tara Campbell does as a Jade Falcon that is interesting enough, that returns her characterization more in-line with the 20 books she was in before HotW, AND preferably ends with a Campbell bloodname if we're stuck with her continuing to exist in this "form" because that'd be the only thing that would, for me personally, be a tolerable outcome (and so my 3250 Falcons can end up with her gene-kiddos). Barring THAT, I'd prefer to see her return to the Highlanders either to face a tribunal (regardless of -why- she did what she did, I don't think anyone on Northwind is going to forgive it) and subsequent punishment/chance for some kind of redemption arc or something befitting the previous-characterization, OR conversely, she gets head-capped by an ERPPC and the charred corpse gets sent back to Northwind CoD.
Both outcomes are better than where we were left at the end of Wolf.
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Tassa teased me - since I get into ilClan era stuff passionately and I can be easy pickings - about the Falcons and NWH highlanders reuniting. You responded with “would it be such a bad thing?”
It hasn’t been the first time I’ve seen people suggest, seriously, that Falcons recruit from NWH. So I took your question at face value.
I’m glad your follow up here explained your stance better. I don’t know what I want from Tara. I don’t think I care. BLP tried to destroy and character assassinate anyone and everything RotS related and he succeeded with the one character he tried to create an ilClan future for. That said, if people want to put effort into salvaging her as a character, the only path I see forward is a guilt-ridden Falcon leader trying to make amends for betraying the republic. Maybe she can push for Falcon efforts to sabotage the ilClan.
Her as a happy clanner is a new character with her name on it. A happy return to NWH is impossible.
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There is an angle with Elizabeth Hazen but it has generally been wildly overblow (guilty as charged), so it's not as though it was invented from whole cloth at least.
Ray commented in (I think) a WolfNet q&a, that people were reading way to much into the Falcon-Blackwatch connection.
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But it is part of their history, quiaff. Even reading some Sarna articles about how the Falcons took the bulk of Aegis Class ships, that are TH and Elizabeth's history too, Mattlov with Caph, touching on this again in ilClan era, seems to be setting the Terran Falcons up with building blocks to rebuild their reputation, whilst having something unique
Tara has also been set up as a catalyst point, becoming a high ranking officer (mind the pun) or proper consultant to Stephanie, I can imagine many "conversations" akin to Horse and Marthe, about how to do things "properly" in the IS if you want real development. Ending an arc maybe with her getting a Bloodname ?
Just saying her character can be "salvaged" in an interesting way, given time and development with fiction that is current
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While I also agree that there is a strong Falcon connection to the Terran Hegemony, past performance does not always indicate future behavior or results. But being the new RBW is a fitting place for them considering their history, and it fits poetically. And it positions them to take that step.
BUT - good writing often involves misdirection. So we need to wait and see.
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Could TPTB have plans for a Falcon mixup soon...
Like what they did for Jade Wolf?
Several trials against each other absorbing the loser as isola? Would be epic!
QuiAff or QuiNeg Warriors?
TT
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The AML is strictly interested in finance. They make their money through interest, not moving goods around. Much easier. The Sea Foxes will sell you the goods, but the AML will lend you the money to buy.
Interesting. I wondered about this re: the likelihood of seeing Alynia-produced machines in Jiyi's forces.
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The AML is strictly interested in finance. They make their money through interest, not moving goods around.
This doesn't appear to be strictly true. Per TTS, they've set up a trading enclave on Kerensky's Vision.
Interesting. I wondered about this re: the likelihood of seeing Alynia-produced machines in Jiyi's forces.
Considering they share a RAT, I'd say they already have enough to be considered significant, but they're likely just pre-Terra leftovers.
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The RAT is a catch-all for the AML, Jiyi's forces, and all the random Falcon holdouts in the 'Hinterlands'.
It's not going to be impossible that an Alynia machine is in Jiyi's arsenal since those mechs have been in the Falcon touman for a few years.
But, I prefer to up the nerdery and get more restrictive with my mech selections. If Marena has slammed the door on Jiyi completely -- that would lower the odds of including, say, a Hierofalcon in any Sentinel force of mine.
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The RAT is a catch-all for the AML, Jiyi's forces, and all the random Falcon holdouts in the 'Hinterlands'.
It's not going to be impossible that an Alynia machine is in Jiyi's arsenal since those mechs have been in the Falcon touman for a few years.
Yeah, I said that, LOL.
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Interesting. I wondered about this re: the likelihood of seeing Alynia-produced machines in Jiyi's forces.
not enough time has passed for the off-terra falcons to differentiate from each other in significant ways
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This doesn't appear to be strictly true. Per TTS, they've set up a trading enclave on Kerensky's Vision.
Everyone trades to some degree. They can either set up posts of their own, or rely 100% on Clan Sea Fox, which isn't a viable option. The AML is still more interested in banking than competing with Clan Sea Fox.
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Everyone trades to some degree. They can either set up posts of their own, or rely 100% on Clan Sea Fox, which isn't a viable option. The AML is still more interested in banking than competing with Clan Sea Fox.
Yes, and that was my point. You said they were strictly interested in finance and not in moving goods around, but that's not actually the case. Whether or not they're more interested in banking than competing with the Foxes (which is questionable, since they're doing exactly that on Kerensky's Vision by setting up a trading enclave) is besides the point.
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TTS ? RAT ?
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Touring the Stars; Random Assignment Table
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Touring the Stars; Random Assignment Table
I read that semicolon as a colon and laughed entirely too hard.
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Touring the Stars; Random Assignment Table
Thanks, so just the RAT is where we see an update on the Falcons ?
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Everyone trades to some degree. They can either set up posts of their own, or rely 100% on Clan Sea Fox, which isn't a viable option. The AML is still more interested in banking than competing with Clan Sea Fox.
Thanks, in terms of my own personal RATs I'm generally more interested in the 'spirit' of the fluff to restrict and add more definition/character to my specific forces. I was a huge fan of the 'Objectives' series, but I understand why they're not really around anymore.
Yeah, I said that, LOL.
My response was to your original, unedited post.
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Is there an official Unit Logo for the 131st BattleMech Division ?
From which the founder of House Pryde served
Also on that note, does "Kerensky's Command Staff" as a unit, have a logo too ?
Thanks :cool:
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Standard SLDF Daggerstar and 131st.?
TT
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Standard SLDF Daggerstar and 131st.?
TT
I mean beyond that
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https://www.sarna.net/wiki/131st_BattleMech_Division
Doesn't appear to be besides that.
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You could also go MOS coding?
Pick your country of choice...
TT
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Nothing in FM: SLDF but I’d guess something having to do with Hercules…
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Tassa teased me - since I get into ilClan era stuff passionately and I can be easy pickings - about the Falcons and NWH highlanders reuniting. You responded with “would it be such a bad thing?”
It hasn’t been the first time I’ve seen people suggest, seriously, that Falcons recruit from NWH. So I took your question at face value.
I’m glad your follow up here explained your stance better. I don’t know what I want from Tara. I don’t think I care. BLP tried to destroy and character assassinate anyone and everything RotS related and he succeeded with the one character he tried to create an ilClan future for. That said, if people want to put effort into salvaging her as a character, the only path I see forward is a guilt-ridden Falcon leader trying to make amends for betraying the republic. Maybe she can push for Falcon efforts to sabotage the ilClan.
Her as a happy clanner is a new character with her name on it. A happy return to NWH is impossible.
BLP was the one that wrote the book BUT its not like he or any writer can just do anything they want... Remember that for all the things we like and don't like that happens it's the whole of the company that decides the overall direction. Character assassination as you call it of key/high profile personalities is not something a single author can just "do". There are a # of BT authors here so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I do not believe that vilifying a single person who by the way is not here to correct you is not going to change a company level decision. The universe is always changing and the fact that things don't always go like you want them to is part of the ride. I'll get off my soap box now.
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Sibkin (clone) <nods> :grin:
What a name :cool:
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BLP was the one that wrote the book BUT its not like he or any writer can just do anything they want... Remember that for all the things we like and don't like that happens it's the whole of the company that decides the overall direction. Character assassination as you call it of key/high profile personalities is not something a single author can just "do". There are a # of BT authors here so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I do not believe that vilifying a single person who by the way is not here to correct you is not going to change a company level decision. The universe is always changing and the fact that things don't always go like you want them to is part of the ride. I'll get off my soap box now.
I fail to see where Church asked for or even expects CGL to change a company-level decision. He's correctly laying the blame for the events of HotW on the writer who crafted it (and went on ad nauseum about the writing process for it on his blog), and he has every right to do so.
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BLP was the one that wrote the book BUT its not like he or any writer can just do anything they want... Remember that for all the things we like and don't like that happens it's the whole of the company that decides the overall direction. Character assassination as you call it of key/high profile personalities is not something a single author can just "do". There are a # of BT authors here so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I do not believe that vilifying a single person who by the way is not here to correct you is not going to change a company level decision. The universe is always changing and the fact that things don't always go like you want them to is part of the ride. I'll get off my soap box now.
I hesitate to say this, but you might want to read his blog and see how many decisions he claimed as his. And how he argued for specific outcomes with whatever CGL calls their story group. How he said he put his foot down and said things must pan out a certain way if he was going to write the book.
I’ll give you the short version: BLP wanted the RotS to lose even harder than they did. He wanted them to gleefully be absorbed into the wolves. He wanted them to gladly join the glorious new Third Star League and help kick the crap out of the Hell’s horses who dared defy the league. The trashfire of HotW is what we got after the story group reigned huge amounts of BLP’s nonsense in.
As for outcomes I don’t like? My issue isn’t the outcome. We knew since Shattered fortress that the RotS was boned narratively. The end result - a dead faction - isn’t the issue. The problem was an author who refused to respect the faction he wrote the demise of, and that author going out of his way to anttack every aspect of it that he could.
So we end up here, with a Tara Campbell-Wolf-Jade Falcon who makes no sense, and has no good narrative place in spite of being set up to be important.
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If you take the entire Dark Age the stories often have holes you can fly Warships through. I mean just for the Falcons: how many cokpit hits did Malvina actually survive? Imho she should have died on Skye or at the very least in Operation Nighthawk. Then we have the Falcons going full out Space-hitler and NO ONE dares to actually fight fire with fire? Why didn't the Lyrans thought of nuking the Falcons after they had begun to poison planets or using Warships as oribtal bombardment (literally). Or the Republic equipping their last Warships with nukes to clear the sky of Falcon Warships who had bombarded Terra? Then we have the HPG blackout and at first Fax machines work just fine and suddenly they are written out of existence. We have a Republic that just 20-30 years after the Capellan Crusades has grown so weak it collapses overnight. Or how Harrison Davion changes from weak ruler to someone who seems really competent in terms of political machinations.
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TBF, barring HotW, I’ve been seeing and now expecting better of the writing from CGL for ilClan. It feels like there has been a step change in standards.
So while I don’t see a good path for Tara going forward, I’m also not the one who has to spend the time to sort her out. I’m cautiously optimistic that they’ll find something.
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If she kills Stephanie Chistu with a throwing knife, I will literally buy a dozen copies of the book.
LOL. :smilie_happy_clapping:
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Even reading some Sarna articles about how the Falcons took the bulk of Aegis Class ships, that are TH and Elizabeth's history too.
Could you direct me to these.
I've never heard of the Falcons choosing them for their TH history.
Sure they had a bunch but half the one's in Revival were Raven ships.
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Could you direct me to these.
I've never heard of the Falcons choosing them for their TH history.
Sure they had a bunch but half the one's in Revival were Raven ships.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Aegis_(WarShip_class) (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Aegis_(WarShip_class)) Last line of the third paragraph: "the design highly favored by Clan Jade Falcon who use it to perform escort and transport duties."
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https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Aegis_(WarShip_class) (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Aegis_(WarShip_class)) Last line of the third paragraph: "the design highly favored by Clan Jade Falcon who use it to perform escort and transport duties."
that just says the jade falcons like it, ti doesn't say they like it because of the Hegemony link.
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ah, didn't notice the Terran Hegemony mention there. TRO: 3057 simply says that despite their light armor, a lot of Aegides survived the Exodus and are still staples in the Clans to this day, with Jade Falcon fielding the majority. From that, I guess one could infer that, staunch traditionalists that they are, the Jade Falcons prefer the venerable Star League era design over others when available, but that's reading between the lines more than anything outright
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There is no problem with inferring information and using it to form conclusions and fuel speculation. There is problem with stating said conclusions or speculation as fact.
No harm done, but it happens enough here and in other places on the boards to be worth a mention now and again.
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For my part, I simply noted the Falcons and their love of Aegis cruisers to be just one more hint about their connection to the Terran Hegemony, backed up by their love of tradition. They certainly are noted for their conservative natures that rather venerate the old ways. It's just a connection. And as such, it only has as much value as a reader or player wants it to have at their table.
But it's in no way proven fact. And in no way does it predict their course during the next unfolding years of the new IlClan Era.
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For my part, I simply noted the Falcons and their love of Aegis cruisers to be just one more hint about their connection to the Terran Hegemony, backed up by their love of tradition. They certainly are noted for their conservative natures that rather venerate the old ways. It's just a connection. And as such, it only has as much value as a reader or player wants it to have at their table.
But it's in no way proven fact. And in no way does it predict their course during the next unfolding years of the new IlClan Era.
Going by your point, the Falcons have used SL equipment so far and haven't tried to be the first to get Omnimech technology.
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They really went after Omni tech (and later Elemental tech) because they knew they would fall behind without it. And the Wolves and Coyotes had fun playing keep away, too.
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To my more-knowledgeable trothkin, what do the Star League Jade Falcons look like? I know of the depiction of the Golden Talons of the 5th Battle on the front of the Alpha Strike boxset: https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/e/e4/Alpha_Strike_Box_Set_cover.png?timestamp=20220424155552
But I also see there was some representation on the recent CSO diorama fighting the CCAF alongside the Wolves and Jaguars: https://camospecs.com/listing/summoner-prime-8/
One is a swapped version of Delta's scheme, the other is (to my eyes) a dulled-down version of the classic scheme, almost like the Falcon Sentinels. Are there any further descriptions out there? Novels, Shrapnel, etc?
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Nope. That’s literally all we have at the moment.
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We're all waiting to devour For IlKhan's Eyes Only to hopefully get a good look at the condition of the Falcons and Jaguars.
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The novel they teased that’s coming in Q2 will probably show some of it
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Looking to research (as written about in Shrapnel, "Strange Bedfellows") the unit "Jade Swords" the Cluster that refused to follow The Not Named Hazen and lifted off Sudeten after the sad events of that day (may Pryde rest in peace)
Is there any info about what the Cluster was, the type ? So we could get a improvised TRO
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It was made of mixed members of multiple clusters who could not bear Malvina.
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We're all waiting to devour For IlKhan's Eyes Only to hopefully get a good look at the condition of the Falcons and Jaguars.
Agreed. The Falcons and Jags are in my “most interested” bucket in the new star league.
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As someone who was originally a Jaguar fan, who moved to the Falcons following, the Refusal, I'm completely uninterested in the uber-special Fidelis remnants who are going to become Gary Stus. And my heart and mind sre solidly with the non-Wolf pet Falcons - preference for the Falcon Remnants, but prepared to consider the AML. But still keen to see IEO.
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I really wish this community could be rid of the Mary Sue/Gary Stu term. It's almost never used accurately.
Besides, we have absolutely no idea what direction the Jaguars are going to go in now that BLP isn't writing them anymore. I think casting judgment now is incredibly premature.
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Their new improv comedy Keshik is going to steal the spotlight in IKEO
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I really wish this community could be rid of the Mary Sue/Gary Stu term. It's almost never used accurately.
Besides, we have absolutely no idea what direction the Jaguars are going to go in now that BLP isn't writing them anymore. I think casting judgment now is incredibly premature.
I agree with Tassa. the term Mary Sue is almsot always misused, and normally translates as "I like these guys because they actually have good thigns going for them" AT BEST the Jags are simply a highly cross trained elite formation that can operate in and out of mechs with high effectiveness. Battletech's had something like that from pretty much day 1. they're the death commandos with clantech. I mean the reborn Jags are here and CGL has some imaginative writers let's wait and see whats done with them.
People are IMHO being waaaaaaaay too fast to dismiss both the star league jags and falcons
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I'd imagine that the reborn Jags would have gotten less shade thrown their way if the circumstances of their rebirth had not been in such a contentious novel. All I'm going to say on the matter.
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Besides, we have absolutely no idea what direction the Jaguars are going to go in now that BLP isn't writing them anymore.
True, and fair comment. While absence of evidence isn't evidence of anything, though, it'll be interesting if the arc from Hour of the Wolf gets significantly altered.
But in the meantime, still sticking to the remnants & merchants.
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But in the meantime, still sticking to the remnants & merchants.
I myself don't really care for Jiyi's faction, but I think the AMC has a lot of potential to be something interesting. I get we've already got the Foxes for the Clan merchant angle, but with the AMC, we actually get a Clan faction where the warrior caste isn't at the top of the pyramid, and I think that's neat.
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I myself don't really care for Jiyi's faction, but I think the AMC has a lot of potential to be something interesting. I get we've already got the Foxes for the Clan merchant angle, but with the AMC, we actually get a Clan faction where the warrior caste isn't at the top of the pyramid, and I think that's neat.
And it would fit these particular Falcons as the Jade Falcons were said to be some of the best bankers in the original Clan society. Though perhaps the AMC moves away from banking and goes more in the trading area
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I myself don't really care for Jiyi's faction, but I think the AMC has a lot of potential to be something interesting. I get we've already got the Foxes for the Clan merchant angle, but with the AMC, we actually get a Clan faction where the warrior caste isn't at the top of the pyramid, and I think that's neat.
To be honest I think that has a lot of potential. With three Jade Falcon factions and all different they can and will come to blows (because Battletech) but there is a very good chance they will at some time reunite and become a very strong unified clan with a reformed structure.
There are foreshadows of this with the Society, which was at its heart a Jade Falcon schism. While the Society itself must stay dead the technology need not, and the scientist caste can re-emerge once more likely under the auspices of the AMC, and I can see the AMC resurrecting the pinnacle technology the Society made their own.
The AMC will need to tread carefully to avoid predation from other clans, but assuming they hold and survive they could well be the true catalyst and driving force behind a resurgent Jade Falcon clan. This is a good time to tell the warrior class to 'Be mighty on the battlefield, but your BS stops when you get back home. Leave us to build the uber tech and the economy, we did a good job while you were away. Also your warrior ways only applies to offensive operations. Warrior caste: You pick your battles and you run your ceremonies your way. If we are attacked we all fight and have joint leadership in diplomatic ventures and domestic policy.'
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Super random. Are there any notable Warden Jade Falcon units or people? Even if they were units who got absorbed into another Clan (reverse Harvest Wars I guess.)
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I can't think of any. More than any other Clan, the Falcons seem to have been portrayed as politically monolithic until Malvina.
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I can't think of any. More than any other Clan, the Falcons seem to have been portrayed as politically monolithic until Malvina.
Not quite accurate, but close. Post-Jihad/WoR and pre-Malvina, the Falcons were largely divided into two political factions, the Slips (who wanted war nownowNOW) and the Jesses (who were only slightly less warmongery). Malvina's predecessor as Khan seemed to be aligned with the Jesses, and Loremaster Julia Buhallin was aligned with the Slips. The Jade Falcon desant was in fact conceived by Jana Pryde to, among other reasons (i.e., exile her political rivals), appease the Slips' calls to war. Malvina, who was both admired and detested for varying reasons by both sides, formed a third political grouping amongst the Falcons with the Mongols, and she wasn't even the head Mongol in charge until she took the Khanship.
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Looks like we're getting a panini in the cookbook.
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Looks like we're getting a panini in the cookbook.
If I didn’t know what you were talking about that would be a very weird statement to just suddenly say lol
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Super random. Are there any notable Warden Jade Falcon units or people? Even if they were units who got absorbed into another Clan (reverse Harvest Wars I guess.)
Yes. There was a very liberal warrior mentioned in the Jade Falcon sourcebook: Devinnia Guili.
I say very liberal and frankly closet-Warden as her opinions were almost certainly toned down from what they actually are.
Here is her bio:
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Devinnia_Guili
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Yes. There was a very liberal warrior mentioned in the Jade Falcon sourcebook: Devinnia Guili.
I say very liberal and frankly closet-Warden as her opinions were almost certainly toned down from what they actually are.
Here is her bio:
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Devinnia_Guili
Nice
My primary character is Warden too
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From the last Newsday episode ...
(https://i.imgur.com/crQGLwv.jpg)
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From the last Newsday episode ...
(https://i.imgur.com/crQGLwv.jpg)
Go Stephanie ! :evil:
Newsday ? as in official Falcon stuff ?
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Go Stephanie ! :evil:
Newsday ? as in official Falcon stuff ?
Tuesday Newsday is a weekly stream from CGL with updates on what's going on with CGL. This Tuesday the guest was Brent Evens, art director for CGL, and he showed off a bunch of upcoming art.
https://youtu.be/vJ5A8QqLfAw?feature=shared
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Nice art, I hope we eventually get official art for 1st Falcon Sentinels. I was surprised flipping through the Tamar Rising sourcebook there was 0 art of them, though thankfully they did put a mercantile milita summoner in there.
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There's an official color scheme for them up on Camo Specs. It's pretty, but far too complex for most painters. :sad:
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There's an official color scheme for them up on Camo Specs. It's pretty, but far too complex for most painters. :sad:
I so hate paint schemes with excessively details like those falcon images (Steel Viper snake scales are another good example). Along with fades, terrible things.
But even without that the paint scheme is pretty lame. Just Delta Galaxy redux.
Alyina Mercantile League's paint scheme is likewise a bit boring. So Gamma Galaxy with two trim colors rather than one?
Links to Jiyi's and AML's schemes:
https://camospecs.com/unit/1st-falcon-sentinels/
https://camospecs.com/unit/mercantile-militia/
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I so hate paint schemes with excessively details like those falcon images (Steel Viper snake scales are another good example). Along with fades, terrible things.
We are in 100% agreement here.
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I kinda like the colors for the two splinter factions but I do wish the falcon mural stuff was kept to just star commanders or leadership. Having to paint murals on every mech is a bit much.
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To be fair, no one has to paint anything they don't want to paint on their models. I can't imagine 99.9% of gaming tables are going to police that sort of thing, and if they did, would you really want to play at that table in the first place?
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To be fair, no one has to paint anything they don't want to paint on their models. I can't imagine 99.9% of gaming tables are going to police that sort of thing, and if they did, would you really want to play at that table in the first place?
Yeah, this. At the very least, you can justify it as some hotshot ristar Star Captain who's got a custom paint job on their mech.
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I'm going to do a unit of Falcon Sentinels. But "after the Tech revolution." Instead of full falcon head, I'll just be doing beak and eyes.
(The techs hated the time painting the scheme, so they just served nutriloaf to the warriors for 3 meals a day until the warriors acknowledged the situation ...)
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I feel sorry for anyone who decides to raid that planet in the next week.
And also for whatever tech is stuck on latrine duty.
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To be fair, no one has to paint anything they don't want to paint on their models. I can't imagine 99.9% of gaming tables are going to police that sort of thing, and if they did, would you really want to play at that table in the first place?
For the same reason I'm going to use mechs that I have the minis for and that I like to have specific models that match variants: I like it when I have the "right" stuff for my space historicals and it's frustrating to have such a difficult barrier to being able to do that.
You might as well ask why bother painting a unit in BT at all, no one is making you.
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For the same reason I'm going to use mechs that I have the minis for and that I like to have specific models that match variants: I like it when I have the "right" stuff for my space historicals and it's frustrating to have such a difficult barrier to being able to do that.
I get that, but sometimes that's the price you pay when you want everything to be right: occasionally running into a paint scheme that's above one's particular skill level. One can either learn how to do it "right" or accept a compromise. I don't see anything wrong with some units having more advanced paint schemes, especially since they're pretty few and far between in BattleTech.
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Respect to everyone who pulls off those gorgeous Falcon paint schemes, when possible.
And respect to those who try.
And respect to those who know their limitations.
It's not easy being green.
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What bothers me most is that there are lots of tutorials. Lots and lots and lots of videos for all skill sets, to help people improve. But people won't watch them.
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Because most tutorials for advanced techniques only make sense if you have the skills/knowledge already in hand. I still remember the absolute leap of faith it took to drybrush for the first time. No amount of explanations made sense, until I'd done it. (Much like parenting.) Tutorials can help with basic techniques, and may make intermediate techniques accessible to many.
The other thing is lacking the level of eye/hand coordination to achieve the falcon feathering on what is really a small area. Some folk have it, some folk don't. I know I don't; I'd rather feel good about what I do, than feel bad about failing.
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What bothers me most is that there are lots of tutorials. Lots and lots and lots of videos for all skill sets, to help people improve. But people won't watch them.
Yeah and there are plenty of videos out there about how to make your own knives from a block of steel, for all skill levels. This does not make "just make your own" a helpful response to someone saying they need a knife, either on its own or relative to the effort required to do it.
At a certain point it's not even a matter of capable it's a matter of this sucks with how much effort is required.
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And there's plenty of people who just don't want to paint something that complex.
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For the same reason I'm going to use mechs that I have the minis for and that I like to have specific models that match variants: I like it when I have the "right" stuff for my space historicals and it's frustrating to have such a difficult barrier to being able to do that.
You might as well ask why bother painting a unit in BT at all, no one is making you.
Very much this. For folks who actually like painting stuff to match a canon scheme, having an entire faction gatekeeped behind an expert-level scheme is incredibly disheartening.
The 'All Sudeten Falcons use this' part is what I hate. I don't mind expert patterns for elite units, top-level command formations, or unique pilots. You don't see me complaining about Legend-Killer or Phantom, even though both have absolutely insane paint jobs. Those are single machines, not entire brigades or whole factions marked "big kids only, all others need not apply".
What bothers me most is that there are lots of tutorials. Lots and lots and lots of videos for all skill sets, to help people improve. But people won't watch them.
For me at least, there's two issues:
1 - There's no advertising. This forum is where I get 99% of my information, so if nothing's posted here when one gets put up, I have no idea they exist.
2 - They're videos. Videos are a pain in the ass. Now a tutorial posted somewhere with pictures and text? I'm sold!
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From the last Newsday episode ...
(https://i.imgur.com/crQGLwv.jpg)
What mech is this?
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I admit, I don't paint the feathers and go with the "Just trust me, bro. They are the First Falcon Sentinels."
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What mech is this?
Jade Hawk
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jade_Hawk
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I noticed this with the Shrike when we first got the stats for it. These new totem mechs are really light on the weapons. I get a real all show, no go vibe. No wonder we came in second on Terra, lol.
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With a few exceptions, the Falcons have preferred mechs with more move than gun since they first appeared in the IS.
The only exceptions I can think of are the Turkina, Night Gyr, and Cougar, and to a lesser extent the Loki.
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The Jade Phoenix isn't bad in that regard. Other than the A.
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Jade Hawk has a lot of hurt ... once it gets in there ...
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The Jade Phoenix isn't bad in that regard. Other than the A.
Jade Pheonix Prime is, IMHO the ultimate evolution of the jade falcon combat philophesy
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I noticed this with the Shrike when we first got the stats for it. These new totem mechs are really light on the weapons. I get a real all show, no go vibe. No wonder we came in second on Terra, lol.
Several mechs made their first appearance in MW DA without proper battletech stats and then had to get stats that matched their appearance. It didn't make the most efficient mechs.
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Especially since DA minis tended to have mostly small amounts of gun barrels, so they couldn't do stuff like medium laser spam.
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Jade Pheonix Prime is, IMHO the ultimate evolution of the jade falcon combat philophesy
Jade phoenix chassis is. But I’d argue the A is the peak of Falcon habits.
Summoner C started it
Grand Summoner C refined it
Jade Phoenix A continues refining it.
This nice through line of design gun philosophy
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Hi
These are very old cases, of course.
But how did the 9th Talon of Jade Falcon's Gamma deserve its own color scheme?
No book is stories this.
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Jade phoenix chassis is. But I’d argue the A is the peak of Falcon habits.
Summoner C started it
Grand Summoner C refined it
Jade Phoenix A continues refining it.
This nice through line of design gun philosophy
Honestly, most of the jade Pheonix configs bring to ready mind a summoner config I think, you can really see that the mech is clearly a "assault class summoner"
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Do they really? I never got that impression. Among other things, the Jade Phoenix has only one configuration that packs missiles.
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The Jade Phoenix Prime is significantly closer to an Executioner that figured out how to be actually good than it is to any Summoner.
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I'd say that's a much more accurate assessment of its capabilities.
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Do they really? I never got that impression. Among other things, the Jade Phoenix has only one configuration that packs missiles.
a critting balastic gun with a PPC hole opener, obviously it's not the exact same weapons set up, but you can very much see the influence
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Eh, got to squint pretty hard for that.
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I admit, I don't paint the feathers and go with the "Just trust me, bro. They are the First Falcon Sentinels."
Without Question :grin:
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Honestly after refreshing myself on the other Jade Phoenix configs I'm settling even more firmly on the Executioner comparison, and none of them particularly resemble any Summoner configs popular enough for me to know offhand. The Prime, B, D, and E all have fairly deep similarity to the Executioner Prime
Assault
Faster/more maneuverable than average
2x big energy 1x big ballistic (the B flips this but is still close)
The biggest difference is that on the JP the extra maneuverability is integral and efficient and more than the sum of its parts, where the Executioner ends up so expensive and less than the sum of its parts.
And then you have the A, one of the most disgusting dueling mechs ever devised, and the C, which is just raw efficient mid and close range damage the likes of which cannot be escaped.
Hard to articulate how good the JP is.
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Chassis-wise, I don't really see JP as Mega-Summoner or an executioner. JP Prime kind of feels like the child of an Executioner Prime and T, but I gotta squint.
The comparison to the summoner for me is purely the Summoner C => Grand Summoner C => JP A throughline. My comment was more that Falcons seem to have this group that cannot help but make anything with the podspace a brawler with uAC20 in one arm and big energy backup guns in the other. Probably not unique to them, but I keeps showing up on their heavy/assault omnis that I can actually remember
Turkina C (lbX20, but otherwise fits)
Jade Phoenix A
Grand Summoner C
Summoner C
Night Gyr A
On an aside, speaking of doctrine consistency, I do like that the Hierofalcon Prime is effectively the same idea as the JP Prime. Ion Sparrow is a little too limited on pod space to mimic it, but 2 AP gauss and 2 iHMLs does feel similar ideas
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I finally got the alpha strike starter and was looking at the Jade Falcon artwork on the cards. It threw me off to see the delta galaxy colors with the star league logo in place of the white falcon/blue planet. At least....i'm assuming the Golden Talons are meant to be delta galaxy or some kind of elite unit under Stephanie's command. I can't seem to find much info on the Golden Talons, but now i'm leaning towards painting more of my clan mechs in these colors.
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We're still unsure. The artwork on the cover, for example, shows Lambda Galaxy colors and insignia.
Probably won't know for sure until we get IKEO.
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I finally got the alpha strike starter and was looking at the Jade Falcon artwork on the cards. It threw me off to see the delta galaxy colors with the star league logo in place of the white falcon/blue planet. At least....i'm assuming the Golden Talons are meant to be delta galaxy or some kind of elite unit under Stephanie's command. I can't seem to find much info on the Golden Talons, but now i'm leaning towards painting more of my clan mechs in these colors.
I painted my Alpha Strike Box Set clan mechs in Golden Talon colors as well, didn't come out great, but pleased I finally have some Falcons to play with. Looking forward to adding the AML mech set that comes out in a couple years so I have some of the newer, more maneuverable Falcon mechs to complement it.
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So I'm contemplating running a game based on Hell's Horses' Operation STAMPEDE attack on Sudeten. It's going to be an urban fight and I'm considering what Falcon forces to use: vehicles and BA are both going to be on the table, with the Falcons fielding hidden units.
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Jiyi's Falcons have an incredible surplus of equipment due to Sudeten's factories.
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Sudeten#Companies_and_Industries (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Sudeten#Companies_and_Industries)
Anything from Trellshire or Olivetti will be your most lore-accurate choices.
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I'm planning a Cluster that's built entirely out of what's in active production on Sudeten and the most difficult part was trimming it did to "just" a Cluster.
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I'm planning a Cluster that's built entirely out of what's in active production on Sudeten and the most difficult part was trimming it did to "just" a Cluster.
I’m curious what’s the challenge Jiyi only had a Cluster of mechs and tanks he also had a second Cluster but that was composed largely of infantry.
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I’m curious what’s the challenge Jiyi only had a Cluster of mechs and tanks he also had a second Cluster but that was composed largely of infantry.
Plot armor.
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Jiyi had a Clusters' worth of trained pilots and way more than that in equipment that didn't have a butt to put in the seat. There's so much stuff built on Sudeten that you can fill out the entire mech compliment of the Cluster before you've used every mech twice. The challenge was figuring out what to cut to make Stars that both look good and work well together.
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I'm planning a Cluster that's built entirely out of what's in active production on Sudeten and the most difficult part was trimming it did to "just" a Cluster.
I've been ruminating on this as well:
(https://i.imgur.com/ocbDiJo.png)
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I'm planning a slightly non-canon - either another cluster, or a "2nd Falcon Sentinels" trinary. Olive green with dark yellow trim, with yellow beak & falcon eyes, and no feathers.
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Heresy.
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No, the consequence of the Great Tech Paint Rebellion ...
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Sounds like my plan for doing "the 2nd dawnguards" "........ DIAGONAL YELLOW? PFFT NOOOOOO!" :)
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TBH. depending on how many and which units, it's not actually that bad. Citadel contrast paints & shades make all the difference. Happy to talk via PM if you're interested.
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TBH. depending on how many and which units, it's not actually that bad. Citadel contrast paints & shades make all the difference. Happy to talk via PM if you're interested.
I mean YELLOW itself isn't a problem, I paint Imperial fists, but the diagonal is a bit of a hassle. but yeah best not hijack a jade falcon thread any further :)
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I'm planning a slightly non-canon - either another cluster, or a "2nd Falcon Sentinels" trinary. Olive green with dark yellow trim, with yellow beak & falcon eyes, and no feathers.
Sounds like my plan for doing "the 2nd dawnguards" "........ DIAGONAL YELLOW? PFFT NOOOOOO!" :)
Both of you. Get on the Shadowy CSO Paint Scheme Council. NOW.
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I humbly submit that the 2nd Falcon Sentinels have a Jade/green body/fuselage, navy blue with steel panels for the limbs, and red accents on the blue.
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/8/85/Clan_Jade_Falcon.jpg)
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That would be a pretty cool canon paint scheme.
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I've been ruminating on this as well:
(https://i.imgur.com/ocbDiJo.png)
Where is this from?
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My desktop! I keep fiddling/adding to it as I dig up info or new stuff is released.
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So using the (lovely and ever expanding) "current-ish" mechs and their production lines (as shown above) :cool:, throw in the Totem Mechs, Ion Sparrow, Hierofalcon, Jade Hawk, Jupiter, Grand Summoner and Turkina, would this be an approximate write up of what "could be" in future Jade Falcon Toumans ? As in Star compositions Supernovas, etc
Also due to the times and changing attitudes, more mixed forces too (Infantry/Tank/ASF/VTOL), what could they be ?
That raises another question in the rebuilding phase, Elementals, the ONLY source of Hargel in the Inner Sphere is the Foxes, quiaff ? And they get a little from the Scrops too ?
Can I even manage to get the underdog of Proto's thrown in? More Terran Falcons as they have lots of ASF pilots spare or abit of my stretch lol :police:
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Can I even manage to get the underdog of Proto's thrown in? More Terran Falcons as they have lots of ASF pilots spare or abit of my stretch lol :police:
Falcons don't use Protos. The only factions that do are the Horses and the Ravens (the Scorpions used to, until their current writer took them away for nonsensical reasons).
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Protos are antithetical to the current Falcon situation. They have more mechs than they know what to do with, but lack the trained pilots to use them.
The newer totems are all in Alyina Merchant League space so they're much less likely but not impossible to be found with the Remnant and vice versa.
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I humbly submit that the 2nd Falcon Sentinels have a Jade/green body/fuselage, navy blue with steel panels for the limbs, and red accents on the blue.
Seconding MoneyLovinOgre4Hire, if I had the time (and navy blue paint), I'd give this a go today because it does sound cool!
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I humbly submit that the 2nd Falcon Sentinels have a Jade/green body/fuselage, navy blue with steel panels for the limbs, and red accents on the blue.
(https://cfw.sarna.net/wiki/images/8/85/Clan_Jade_Falcon.jpg)
Is it supposed to be blue in that emblem? My eyes always see purple.
Aside from that, that's pretty close to what I have planned for my ace Delta Galaxy pilot. :)
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I always liked the OG sourcebook logo the best -- my best try at it on the left. Newer one is a bit squished in the x-axis as well.
(https://i.imgur.com/mNqgqZm.png)
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Nice looking reproductions, though. This was the Jade Falcon of Aidan Pryde, it stands for all time since.
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Once the Mercs Kickstarter delivers, I might have a free star to paint up in those colors. Jade torso, navy blue limbs, steel/unpainted limb armor plates, red caution/exhaust/bumper number &c.? Sounds like a fun scheme.
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As the Kerensky Con JPG said ... the upcoming Falcon pack will supposedly consist of:
- Eyrie
- Gyrfalcon
- Shrike
- Jupiter
- Cougar
Unfortunate that the Jade Hawk is parceled away and we're getting another Cougar, but I was curious about what people thought of available vehicles ...
Given the Falcons new reliance on vehicles, which of the three unique, Sudeten types would you like in the pack if they were to replace the Cougar?
- 2 x Nacon
- 2 x Gurzil
- 2 x Huey
Huey would have the added benefit of being available to all Clans throughout almost their whole history.
Unfortunately Sarah Regis stole our remaining cool toys.
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I doubt they’d throw in a vehicle (not impossible just not likely unless you’re the Horses (because they are for the Horses with the Epona!))
BUT
I’d say the Gurzil would be better than the Nacon (even if I want both because I want all in new plastic). Again I’d prefer the JES II or III but the Gurzil works and looks pretty decent.
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Protos are antithetical to the current Falcon situation. They have more mechs than they know what to do with, but lack the trained pilots to use them.
The newer totems are all in Alyina Merchant League space so they're much less likely but not impossible to be found with the Remnant and vice versa.
While I don't think Protos are coming to the Falcons, I can see a possibility. Protos were originally failed Aerospace genotypes. Something like that might be a possibility. He needs bodies and if they failed to become Aerospace pilots, they can serve the Clan in a different way. Similar to how he tells the GB sibkos they will be some kind of warrior even if they fail to make it as a mechwarrior.
The main issues are the lack of Protomechs since they weren't using them before and the time they have before there sibkos are ready to start graduating (rereading AQoS before the sequel comes out and it states the oldest sibkos left are 14). It's possible he feels a little less pressure for bodies once they sibs come into their own. Or it may give him time to get some Protos of his own.
I am not saying this likely. Just possible.
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Protos are a stopgap for mech- and resource-poor Clans. The Falcons are the exact opposite of that right now, there's genuinely no point in developing down that line for the current Falcons.
You'd be better off offering second chance TOPs for MechWarriors.
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Protos are a stopgap for mech- and resource-poor Clans. The Falcons are the exact opposite of that right now, there's genuinely no point in developing down that line for the current Falcons.
You'd be better off offering second chance TOPs for MechWarriors.
Just to point out, Protos are for Aerospace phenotypes.
It's not about material resources but losing warriors to failing out. Mechwarriors and Elementals can become tankers and standard infantry, something Aerospace phenotypes are a little less cut out for.
I'm not dying on this hill. I don't think it's likely. I even thought of other reasons against it. I just think it's a possibility because it does give him bodies on the field which he needs.
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Aerospace trueborns can just become helicopter or jet pilots no problem
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There's also nothing that states that aerospace phenotype warriors can't pilot mechs. And on top of everything else it isn't even certain if Jiyi has any aerospace phenotypes in his forces. The sibko program on Sudeten was disrupted by Malvina's tantrum on the planet, and he wasn't going to get any in the Bear cadets he absconded with because the Bears never bothered adopting that phenotype.
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Just to point out, Protos are for Aerospace phenotypes.
It's not about material resources but losing warriors to failing out. Mechwarriors and Elementals can become tankers and standard infantry, something Aerospace phenotypes are a little less cut out for.
I'm not dying on this hill. I don't think it's likely. I even thought of other reasons against it. I just think it's a possibility because it does give him bodies on the field which he needs.
sure but there's no reason to bother, they have more ASFs then they have crew, rather then build protos, the falcons proably would benifit more from temporarily relaxing training standards
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If your concern is losing Warriors to wash out, you're still better served just letting them do another TOP. Protos solved a problem for Smoke Jaguar and continue to solve a problem for the Horses and Ravens; that problem doesn't exist for the Falcons. The only "problem" that Protos would solve for the Falcons is a cultural one for which the answer is not exclusively (or at all given their current state of zero infrastructure) protos.
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If your concern is losing Warriors to wash out, you're still better served just letting them do another TOP. Protos solved a problem for Smoke Jaguar and continue to solve a problem for the Horses and Ravens; that problem doesn't exist for the Falcons. The only "problem" that Protos would solve for the Falcons is a cultural one for which the answer is not exclusively (or at all given their current state of zero infrastructure) protos.
I'd say that the cultural issue is even more firmly against Protos; the Scientist Caste revolt in Falcon space was built around the supposedly-abandoned ProtoMech program. I am fully aware of the hypocrisies of Clan society and honor, but fielding a symbol of revolt is a step too far.
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And on top of that, there's the inexorable, incurable brain damage that the implants needed to pilot Protomechs cause. When you're already looking at a critical shortage of warm bodies for your military, something that's going to accelerate the rate at which you lose troops is the opposite of what you want.
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And on top of that, there's the inexorable, incurable brain damage that the implants needed to pilot Protomechs cause. When you're already looking at a critical shortage of warm bodies for your military, something that's going to accelerate the rate at which you lose troops is the opposite of what you want.
I'd say the final nail in the coffin is that the Falcons haven't manufactured ProtoMechs in nearly a century, so they'd still have to set up production lines for them. Why bother when you're the one faction in Inner Sphere history that is drowning in extra BattleMechs?
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Yeah, they're in the unique position of having too many seats and not enough behinds to fill them, which is the exact opposite of basically the entire history of the Battletech Universe.
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If your concern is losing Warriors to wash out, you're still better served just letting them do another TOP. Protos solved a problem for Smoke Jaguar and continue to solve a problem for the Horses and Ravens; that problem doesn't exist for the Falcons. The only "problem" that Protos would solve for the Falcons is a cultural one for which the answer is not exclusively (or at all given their current state of zero infrastructure) protos.
I still have no idea what problem Protomechs supposedly solved that Shamash hovercraft, militia mech, beefed up battle armor or one of bug mechs couldn't have solved at fraction of time and resources
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They look cool, little mythological creatures running around :cool:
And the advanced tech level involved and a new Nique. See "Elements of Treason" about the Hells Horses Protomechs
Originally were they not designed to replace vehicles ?
My argument for Falcons using, is more towards Stephanie's Forces, as they need all the numbers they can get
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No, originally, Protomechs were designed to replace conventional Battlemechs by the resource-strapped Jaguars.
And Stephanie's forces suffer from the same issue that Jiyi's do: lack of warriors. They still have a lot of battlefield salvage plus Terra's factories to equip themselves from.
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I still have no idea what problem Protomechs supposedly solved that Shamash hovercraft, militia mech, beefed up battle armor or one of bug mechs couldn't have solved at fraction of time and resources
More fun toys for the players.
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No, originally, Protomechs were designed to replace conventional Battlemechs by the resource-strapped Jaguars.
And Stephanie's forces suffer from the same issue that Jiyi's do: lack of warriors. They still have a lot of battlefield salvage plus Terra's factories to equip themselves from.
More like a willingness to accept Spheroid soldiers into their ranks. The same issue that currently hampers the Wolves on Terra. I mean in theory with all the RAf personel who did not leave Terra there should be enough bodies to fill at least a few clusters. Though if the Falcon are to become the new Blackwatch that might be another factor that hampers recruitment
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I don't think that there's going to be a very easy job to convince the RAF troopers that they should join the faction that destroyed the RAF.
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Their best recruiting angle is probably gonna be "Daoshen Liao is coming."
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Their best recruiting angle is probably gonna be "Daoshen Liao is coming."
They already used “Malvina will murder the planet.” The ones that weren’t going to sign up for that aren’t likely to sign up to hunt Capellans.
In the short term, that’s still their best option and it seems awful. Especially for the falcons, whose reputation is a bunch of mass murdering sociopaths even worse than the Wolfes. (It’ll be interesting watching falcons crawl out of that PR hole).
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They already used “Malvina will murder the planet.” The ones that weren’t going to sign up for that aren’t likely to sign up to hunt Capellans.
In the short term, that’s still their best option and it seems awful. Especially for the falcons, whose reputation is a bunch of mass murdering sociopaths even worse than the Wolfes. (It’ll be interesting watching falcons crawl out of that PR hole).
I suspect that there might be more than a few former RAF soldiers spiteful enough to be willing to sit back and watch Daoshen tear into Alaric.
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Long term, Wolves should be able to recruit from Terra. But without a dead Alaric or Alaric suffering some character growth, are the Falcons and nuJags going to be allowed to?
nuJags theoretically have New Earth and a way to recruit. Alaric will have Terra. But Terran falcons are the worst off with no sibkos, no territory to conscript from.
This is one of the things I kind of expect iKEO to raise as an issue, but the followup will really answer.
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There's also nothing that states that aerospace phenotype warriors can't pilot mechs. And on top of everything else it isn't even certain if Jiyi has any aerospace phenotypes in his forces. The sibko program on Sudeten was disrupted by Malvina's tantrum on the planet, and he wasn't going to get any in the Bear cadets he absconded with because the Bears never bothered adopting that phenotype.
I mean it is unlikely pilot is going to pass TOP for mechwarrior when they failed what they were brought up as, though it could be an interesting idea that they receive a crash course training in a "what do we have to lose" sort of situation. Honestly, that would be kinda cool.
I'm sure he has ASP. There would have been solahma of them too and it mentions in AQoS that his Jumpship scrambles fighters during their escape (I just read that chapter preparing for Wednesday). Even if he doesn't, the sibkos still exist (albiet, they won't be usable for another 5+ years or so).
Not going to respond to the other points, because I don't have much to say other than good point (the point in this post were good too, I just had something other to say to it). Like I said, I don't think it is likely, just a possibility. Though Money reminding of the implants and damage they cause knock it down to 1-2% (and only then because I'm stubborn).
Long term, Wolves should be able to recruit from Terra. But without a dead Alaric or Alaric suffering some character growth, are the Falcons and nuJags going to be allowed to?
nuJags theoretically have New Earth and a way to recruit. Alaric will have Terra. But Terran falcons are the worst off with no sibkos, no territory to conscript from.
This is one of the things I kind of expect iKEO to raise as an issue, but the followup will really answer.
Honestly, I think both might be screwed. Though the Falcons intentionally so. Pretty sure Alaric basically said he wants the Falcons to stay a tiny Clan. I don't think he cares about their Bloodnames surviving. If they become Blackwatch 2.0 and have anyone good enough in the entire Inner Sphere join them, he'd be just happy or even happier. He mainly sees them as a trophy.
The Wolves problem comes into Alaric's arrogance and seeming indifference that the Wolf Empire is going through. If they say "screw it, we're on your own anyways," well, suddenly, he doesn't have sibkos either.
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The Falcons have Tara Campbell in their ranks. She might become something of a poster child for recruiting Terrans into the ranks of the Clan forces. The Wolves also had I think 1 or 2 Galaxies made up mostly of freeborns from the League and Commonwealth. So it can happen. Though probably not with the currently fresh wounds (espcially with how the Falcons treated RAF troopers that surrendered) Though as end result you can always say that the Clans will not look like Clans in the long term should they not be able to populate their ranks with new trueborns. If they have no sibkos with them on Terra it will take at least 16 years to have the first new batch of trueborn recruits available (unless the scientists put in some growth accelerators). And every Clan warrior that dies fighting the Capellans is another dilution of a "trueborn SLDF". In the end it might really come to the "absorption" of the victorious Clans by Terra by the simple fact of population disparity. 10 billion vs a couple of thousands? Plus there is no time for say "proper indoctrination" as the IlClan has no breathing room except that 1 year the wall granted.
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it's hard to say, sure maybe Tara will become a celebrated face that manages ot make intergration with the clans more acceptable, but it's just as likely she's viewed disdainfully as a Quisling
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The Falcons have Tara Campbell in their ranks. She might become something of a poster child for recruiting Terrans into the ranks of the Clan forces. The Wolves also had I think 1 or 2 Galaxies made up mostly of freeborns from the League and Commonwealth. So it can happen. Though probably not with the currently fresh wounds (espcially with how the Falcons treated RAF troopers that surrendered) Though as end result you can always say that the Clans will not look like Clans in the long term should they not be able to populate their ranks with new trueborns. If they have no sibkos with them on Terra it will take at least 16 years to have the first new batch of trueborn recruits available (unless the scientists put in some growth accelerators). And every Clan warrior that dies fighting the Capellans is another dilution of a "trueborn SLDF". In the end it might really come to the "absorption" of the victorious Clans by Terra by the simple fact of population disparity. 10 billion vs a couple of thousands? Plus there is no time for say "proper indoctrination" as the IlClan has no breathing room except that 1 year the wall granted.
Tara as a recruiting tool is like an alternate WW2 where General Montgomery joined the Germans during the blitz, the Germans won, and now they use Monty to convince Brits to help Germany conquer the world. Thats about the closest analogue I can give.
Long term, Tara might help the reputation of the Falcons, but the concern is in the short term. Falcons under Malvina were monsters, and all of the surviving ones were party to some of those atrocities. They should be pariahs in universe who receive no quarter for a very long time. Them recruiting meaningful numbers of Terrans in the next year seems extremely poor.
Dont get me wrong. I want to see what the Terran falcons do. They’re much more interesting than the Terran wolves.
And Wolves didn’t raise 1-2 galaxies. They raised seven. In two years. An entire house frontline army just out of nowhere. It’s one of those BS plot points used to help them power like a super saiyan to attack Terra. I can’t see CGL writing a repeat.
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Tara as a recruiting tool is like an alternate WW2 where General Montgomery joined the Germans during the blitz, the Germans won, and now they use Monty to convince Brits to help Germany conquer the world. Thats about the closest analogue I can give.
Long term, Tara might help the reputation of the Falcons, but the concern is in the short term. Falcons under Malvina were monsters, and all of the surviving ones were party to some of those atrocities. They should be pariahs in universe who receive no quarter for a very long time. Them recruiting meaningful numbers of Terrans in the next year seems extremely poor.
Dont get me wrong. I want to see what the Terran falcons do. They’re much more interesting than the Terran wolves.
And Wolves didn’t raise 1-2 galaxies. They raised seven. In two years. An entire house frontline army just out of nowhere. It’s one of those BS plot points used to help them power like a super saiyan to attack Terra. I can’t see CGL writing a repeat.
One of the short stories “Chaos Theory” does show the Falcons are still a little sociopathic and right now they only see Tara Campbell as more of a poster child than an actual warrior. Personally I see the Highlanders bearing a grudge against the Falcons.
Maybe this is me but I see Terra becoming a hot potato where every few months someone invades it becomes the next “IKhan” until a new upstart comes in or even rises from the ranks.