ICE Hovers

[acksed]

I placed this in the wrong thread :-[ but I kind of like it, so I'm starting a new topic. Post your floaty hydrocarbon-drinkers!

The Nessie was a downgraded version of a heavy hovercraft that would normally have mounted a 215 fusion engine, an Active Probe, ECM, and a large laser plus a small pulse laser. Coming out as the flames of war were burning the buildings and starting to work on the foundations, its unnamed manufacturer considered 'done now, cheap & repairable' as more important in maintaining a customer base.

By day, in normal operation, it was a highly mobile forward command base, capable of uplinking with any satellite network and directing the commander's forces. It could also carry an overstrength support weapons team, or a contingent of combat engineers to set up a forward base. It could also lay a web of sensors around the battlefield, patching them into the battlefield network.
In its other role, the communications equipment was refined till it could create ECM at a flick of a switch, while the levitation equipment and engine was baffled as much as possible. A ramp at the rear allowed mechanised special forces to disembark in silent electric ATVs. The searchlight could be turned to infra-red for night-vision cameras.

Befitting its role, it was lightly armed with two Shannon Four-Leaf SRM4 launchers and a common Armstrong Minigun MG. Eight tons of ArcShield II standard plate provided more than adequate protection should it be discovered.

An amphibious variant was also brought out, but neither survived the destruction of the main factory in the First Succession War.

Code: [Select]

Nessie Command Hover

Mass: 50 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Hovercraft
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/D-D-D-A
Production Year: 2798
Dry Cost: 1,224,000 C-Bills
Total Cost: 1,251,500 C-Bills
Battle Value: 565

Power Plant:  165 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 86.4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 129.6 km/h
Armor:  Standard Armor
Armament:
    2  SRM-4s
    1  Machine Gun
    1  Searchlight
    1  Remote Sensor Dispenser
    1  Communications Equipment (1.0 tons) (6.0 tons)
    1  Infantry Compartment (4.0 tons)
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      25 points                5.00
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                165                      12.00
    Cruise MP:  8
    Flank MP:   12
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            5.00
Turret:                                                                    0.50
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 128                  8.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     31       
                                          Left/Right   25/25       
                                              Turret     26       
                                                Rear     21       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Searchlight                                  FR        0         1         0.50
2 SRM-4s                                     T         6         2         4.00
Machine Gun                                  T         0         1         0.50
Remote Sensor Dispenser                      T         0         1         0.50
Communications Equipment (1.0 tons) (6.0 tons) BD        0         1         6.00
Infantry Compartment (4.0 tons)              BD        0         1         4.00
@SRM-4 (25)                                  BD        -         0         1.00
@MG (1/2) (100)                              BD        -         0         0.50

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      4    Points: 6
8h         2       2       0       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: SRCH, EE, TUR(2/2/0, SRM 1/1/0), SRM 1/1/0

Quirks: Easy to Maintain
Here's your super-sneaky hover transport that has legitimate uses, I swear. I'm not saying it's for disreputable sorts who creep in and sabotage key assets, and I'm not saying the manufacturer was effectively unpersoned for its part in these attacks, but I'm not not saying it either.

[acksed]

Trading on the sudden popularity of the Striker, the Striker (Hover) is essentially a slimmed-down and remodelled Pegasus, made for harassment and dashing in. Dual Valiant "Shortbow" LRM5 and dual Valiant "Gladius" SRM4 launchers give decent short or long-range firepower versus light vehicles and mechs. A larger 125-rated InterCombust engine propels it to 151 km/h, but the armour has been shaved down to a mere five tons.
Despite not fulfilling the same role as its wheeled cousin, orders for "the hover version" are steady. Its slightly lower price than the Pegasus, and its near 1-to-1 parts compatibility, also endear it to militia.

Code: [Select]

Striker (Hover)

Mass: 33 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Hovercraft
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-C-C-A
Production Year: 3014
Dry Cost: 711,725 C-Bills
Total Cost: 768,725 C-Bills
Battle Value: 648

Power Plant: InterCombust 125 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 97.2 km/h
Flanking Speed: 151.2 km/h
Armor: Valiant Buckler Standard Armor
Armament:
    2 Valiant Shortbow LRM-5s
    2 Valiant Gladius SRM-4s
Manufacturer: Valiant Vehicles
    Primary Factory: Johnsonland
Communications System: Wunderland XXI-3
Targeting and Tracking System: Wunderland XXI-3

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      20 points                3.50
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                125                       8.00
    Cruise MP:  9
    Flank MP:   14
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.00
Lift Equipment:                                                            3.50
Turret:                                                                    1.00
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV -  80                  5.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     20       
                                          Left/Right   16/16       
                                              Turret     16       
                                                Rear     12       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 LRM-5s                                     T         4         2         4.00
2 SRM-4s                                     T         6         2         4.00
@LRM-5 (24)                                  BD        -         0         1.00
@SRM-4 (25)                                  BD        -         0         1.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 6
9h         2       2       1       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: EE, TUR(2/2/1, SRM 1/1/0), SRM 1/1/0, IF 1

[acksed]

When Sheinhardt Universal Technologies, manufacturer of the solid, but unexciting Asher hover cavalry, went out of business, one of the companies that bought up its patents and rights was Quikcell. The lingering nostalgia towards the Asher may have been why, almost two centuries later, they attempted to trade upon that reputation with the Asher II. Also, the Terran Hegemony's BattleMechs, lumbering as they were, caused a surge in interest in House militaries towards fast, nimble hover platforms that could dart in, fire, and dart back out of range.
On an attack run, its twin Holly LRM5 launchers would fire with its lancemates on a BattleMech, opening holes that would then be exploited by their twin Magna Medium Lasers. Or so the theory went. In practice, they lost a shocking one out of every three in every encounter. It was not until the first lawsuits were filed that the truth came to light.
The SimplePlate armour, though purporting to be as durable as that of the still-new LTV-4, suffered stress microfractures after 400 hours of operation, its mounts having not been designed for the greater speed and vibration of the larger engine. The eyewitnesses reported the armour simply falling off at full speed, especially on attack runs. The B-series was hurriedly rushed out to fix this flaw, but by then its reputation was in tatters, and they quietly retired the project.

Code: [Select]

Asher IIB

Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Hovercraft
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-C-C-A
Production Year: 2474
Dry Cost: 987,050 C-Bills
Total Cost: 1,017,550 C-Bills
Battle Value: 739

Power Plant:  170 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 97.2 km/h
Flanking Speed: 151.2 km/h
Armor:  Standard Armor
Armament:
    2 Magna Medium Lasers
    2 Holly LRM-5s
    1 Armstrong Machine Gun
Manufacturer: Quikcell
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      25 points                4.50
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                170                      12.00
    Cruise MP:  9
    Flank MP:   14
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             6                         6.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            4.50
Power Amplifiers:                                                          0.50
Turret:                                                                    1.00
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV -  96                  6.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     22       
                                          Left/Right   20/20       
                                              Turret     19       
                                                Rear     15       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Medium Lasers                              T         6         2         2.00
2 LRM-5s                                     T         4         2         4.00
Machine Gun                                  T         0         1         0.50
@LRM-5 (24)                                  BD        -         0         1.00
@MG (1/2) (100)                              BD        -         0         0.50

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 7
9h         2       2       1       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: EE, TUR(2/2/1), IF 1

Quirks: Bad Reputation

[acksed]

In competition with Scarborough Limited's Saladin, Ceres Metals Industries brought out the Predator, their own, heavier version of the fast tank destroyer. A major reason for the extra bulk was the mounting of a Q-Beam AC/20 in a compact turret, and the subsequent need for more armour protection on the turret, front and sides. Seven tons of Hellespont standard wards off a shot from its own gun from any direction.
The only downside is that it does not leave much room for ammunition, only carrying ten salvos before it has to retreat. Enterprising militia commanders have found it makes for a fair scout in a pinch, with lances sometimes used for 'reconnaissance in force' against light mechs or other hover scouts.

Code: [Select]

Predator (hover)

Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Hovercraft
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-E-D-A
Production Year: 2942
Dry Cost: 1,199,375 C-Bills
Total Cost: 1,219,375 C-Bills
Battle Value: 773

Power Plant: GM 125 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 86.4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 129.6 km/h
Armor: Hellespont Standard Armor
Armament:
    1 Q-Beam Autocannon/20
Manufacturer: Ceres Metals Industries
    Primary Factory: Indicass
Communications System: CeresCom Recon 12K
Targeting and Tracking System: Maxell TA50

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      25 points                4.50
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                125                       8.00
    Cruise MP:  8
    Flank MP:   12
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            4.50
Turret:                                                                    1.50
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 112                  7.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     26       
                                          Left/Right   22/22       
                                              Turret     22       
                                                Rear     20       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Autocannon/20                                T         7         1        14.00
@AC/20 (10)                                  BD        -         0         2.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      4    Points: 8
8h         2       2       0       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: EE, TUR(2/2/0, AC 2/2/0), AC 2/2/0

[acksed]

The LTV-3X sits In the window between the first BattleMech and the LTV-4, and can be considered a missing-link in the latter's development. Its recently-uncovered blueprints points to a somewhat fraught design process: bedeviled by Hegemony bureaucrats over what was and wasn't restricted, rumblings about sanctions, and a weapons team that was simply too busy to talk to the armour or chassis team.
On paper, this prototype hover-tank reads like a winner: enough speed to completely outpace a lumbering Mackie, armour that could resist any gun, and weaponry that could penetrate BAR-7 armour. In practice the chassis simply could not handle the recoil of its still-new Ceres Thunderer Autocannon/10. Vibration causing excessive wear on the turret ring, crashes when the bounceback caused the edge of the tank to dig into the ground and simple jams soured the project lead on the cannon. Finally the decision was made - if it could not use one premier anti-'Mech weapon, it would use the other.
Concerted lobbying of the Hegemony Armed Forces secured a manufacturer of Particle Projection Cannon, the chassis and engine was altered to fit and power the new weapon, and the rest is history.

Code: [Select]

LTV-3X (AC10)

Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Hovercraft
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-D-D-A
Production Year: 2457
Cost: 1,104,375 C-Bills
Battle Value: 687

Power Plant: Lotus 125 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 86.4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 129.6 km/h
Armor: LTV PX v.2 Standard Armor
Armament:
    1 Ceres Thunderer Autocannon/10
    1 Holly SRM-4
Manufacturer: Lucas Technologies
    Primary Factory: Outreach
Communications System: Lucas WideBand
Targeting and Tracking System: Lucas TREB
================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      25 points                4.50
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                125                       8.00
    Cruise MP:  8
    Flank MP:   12
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            4.50
Turret:                                                                    1.50
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV -  96                  6.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     21       
                                          Left/Right   20/20       
                                              Turret     20       
                                                Rear     15       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SRM-4                                        T         3         1         2.00
Autocannon/10                                T         3         1        12.00
@SRM-4 (25)                                  BD        -         0         1.00
@AC/10 (20)                                  BD        -         0         2.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 7
8h         2       2       0       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: EE, TUR(2/2/0, AC 1/1/0), AC 1/1/0

Design Quirks: Prototype, Ammunition Feed Problem
(45-ton hovers really do sterling work, don't they?)

[Daryk]

45 tons is a sweet spot for vehicles: it's the maximum tonnage for a crew of three.  It's also the heaviest you can use a 25 rated engine to push on wheels.

[kaliban]

In competition with Scarborough Limited's Saladin, Ceres Metals Industries brought out the Predator, their own, heavier version of the fast tank destroyer. A major reason for the extra bulk was the mounting of a Q-Beam AC/20 in a compact turret, and the subsequent need for more armour protection on the turret, front and sides. Seven tons of Hellespont standard wards off a shot from its own gun from any direction.
The only downside is that it does not leave much room for ammunition, only carrying ten salvos before it has to retreat. Enterprising militia commanders have found it makes for a fair scout in a pinch, with lances sometimes used for 'reconnaissance in force' against light mechs or other hover scouts.

Code: [Select]

Predator (hover)

Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Hovercraft
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-E-D-A
Production Year: 2942
Dry Cost: 1,199,375 C-Bills
Total Cost: 1,219,375 C-Bills
Battle Value: 773

Power Plant: GM 125 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 86.4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 129.6 km/h
Armor: Hellespont Standard Armor
Armament:
    1 Q-Beam Autocannon/20
Manufacturer: Ceres Metals Industries
    Primary Factory: Indicass
Communications System: CeresCom Recon 12K
Targeting and Tracking System: Maxell TA50

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      25 points                4.50
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                125                       8.00
    Cruise MP:  8
    Flank MP:   12
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            4.50
Turret:                                                                    1.50
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 112                  7.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     26       
                                          Left/Right   22/22       
                                              Turret     22       
                                                Rear     20       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Autocannon/20                                T         7         1        14.00
@AC/20 (10)                                  BD        -         0         2.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      4    Points: 8
8h         2       2       0       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: EE, TUR(2/2/0, AC 2/2/0), AC 2/2/0

This is well more efficient than the regular Saladin. The extra armor and the turret makes all the difference.
SRMs are better weapons than AC/20s for the same ranges but for tabletop games you roll much less dice and it is more fun to play as the AC/20 terrifies any opponent.

Maybe you can move armor to the front as side hit are mortal due to crits.

[acksed]

This is well more efficient than the regular Saladin. The extra armor and the turret makes all the difference.

It's one of those unexplored niches that came to me when I read about the canon SW Predator: when I thought about what else that weight mounted a BFG, the Regulator popped in there and... voila! Still surprised I managed to load better armour than that worthy on it.

This is one of the few designs I've actually tested against the bot in MegaMek. Barely knew what I was doing, but I tested it. ::) My force was three of these backstopped with four fuel-cell tanks (LL, SRM4, MG) of the same mass. OpFor was about four light mechs. :D The mechs didn't enjoy it.

With the hover's speed and turret, difficult terrain and turning was less of an issue, and even on a hilly map with water, they could park on a ridge and take pot-shots, or chase the mechs down when they tried to run for the hills. >:D I did suffer a turret lock, and my Regular crews seemed to miss far too often, but if you want something to make pirates think twice, I'd definitely consider it for my militia.

SRMs are better weapons than AC/20s for the same ranges but for tabletop games you roll much less dice and it is more fun to play as the AC/20 terrifies any opponent.
Maybe you can move armor to the front as side hit are mortal due to crits.

It seemed to be somewhat arbitrary where it hit, I'll have to test again. But I like the idea of resisting a hit from its own gun from any side.

[acksed]

A simple field-mod of the "flying Claymore", this Saladin traded damage for range and armour, exchanging the Scarborough Original AC/20 for a repurposed Federated AC/10 with a two-ton ammo bin. The mantlet was thickened and the side and rear armour belt was considerably reinforced, carrying a total of 5 tons of ProtecTech 7 armour. The cooling shroud was modified and painted to resemble the bore of the AC/20 from a distance, surprising counter-raiders expecting the hovercraft to fold in one or two hits, and to begin firing at half the range.

A hundred years later, the concept would be promoted from an occasional refit to full production, in the form of the Marian Hegemony's Gladius.

Code: [Select]

Saladin (AC10)

Mass: 35 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Hovercraft
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-D-D-A
Production Year: 2955
Cost: 741,625 C-Bills
Battle Value: 542

Power Plant: ConLee 105 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 86.4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 129.6 km/h
Armor: ProtecTech 7 Standard Armor
Armament:
    1 Federated Autocannon/10
Manufacturer: Scarborough Limited
    Primary Factory:
Communications System: Scarborough Talky-2
Targeting and Tracking System: Scarborough Assault-1

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      16 points                3.50
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                105                       7.00
    Cruise MP:  8
    Flank MP:   12
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.00
Lift Equipment:                                                            3.50
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV -  80                  5.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     24       
                                          Left/Right   20/20       
                                                Rear     16       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Autocannon/10                                FR        3         1        12.00
@AC/10 (20)                                  BD        -         0         2.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 5
8h         1       1       0       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: EE, AC 1/1/0

[acksed]

The niche of light fire-support is not a common one in the Clans, given the quality and weight of fire a single mech can bring to bear. However, the disgraced and dispossessed were sometimes given single-person vehicles like the Warbow and urged to make themselves useful.

Little was expended to make it more than a functional vehicle; the communication systems are basic, the engine primitive, and the styling instantly had it nicknamed the "Warbox". Indeed, the driver is considered an accessory, only there to bring the dual forward-facing Streak LRM5 launchers to the battlefield. Its ferro-fibrous armour is a grudging acknowledgement that they may want these vehicles to come back.

Its simplicity, efficiency of ammo and ease of production allowed the Clans with access to Streak LRMs to field whole auxiliary companies of these.

Code: [Select]

Warbow

Mass: 15 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Motive Type: Hovercraft
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F-E
Production Year: 3070
Dry Cost: 360,750 C-Bills
Total Cost: 420,750 C-Bills
Battle Value: 563

Power Plant:  50 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 97.2 km/h
Flanking Speed: 151.2 km/h
Armor:  Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    2  Streak LRM-5s
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                       8 points                1.50
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                 50                       3.00
    Cruise MP:  9
    Flank MP:   14
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         1.00
Lift Equipment:                                                            1.50
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV -  57                  3.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     16       
                                          Left/Right   15/15       
                                                Rear     11       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Streak LRM-5s                              FR        4         2         4.00
@Streak LRM-5 (24)                           BD        -         0         1.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      2    Points: 6
9h         1       1       1       0      1     0   Structure:  1
Special Abilities: CASE, EE

[kaliban]

The easiest ICE hovercraft to customize is the Condor (Davion variant). You need to remove the weapons and replace it for a single AC/20. No need to change the armor or even the turret weight. It works much better than the regular Saladin:

https://owa3025.blogspot.com/2021/05/combat-vehicles-local-variants-schrek.html

[Der Kommissar]

The Predator there is an ugly, ugly customer.  To support the 'recon in force' idea, perhaps a wuasi-variant that trades some armor for a probe dropper and maybe even a recon camera would be in order?  Cameras give you TAG-like spotting for LRMs even on a SW battlefield, and of course with the right force comp & rules having sensors afield can be quite useful.

[Daryk]

+1 for the Recon Camera, and +1 more for the Remote Sensor Dispenser!

Bonus points if you can fit extra communications equipment to monitor more sensors...  8)

[CVB]

I would rather not put the sensor operators in harms way but instead attach a dedicated sensor op vehicle to the HQ & staff echelon.

[Daryk]

That would work too...  8)

[acksed]

+1 for the Recon Camera, and +1 more for the Remote Sensor Dispenser!

Bonus points if you can fit extra communications equipment to monitor more sensors...  8)

The Nessie upthread can totally do that if you swap the Searchlight for a Recon Camera. I know that dual-role vehicles are not great, but they're a necessary evil if your backwater militia has little room in the budget or a shortage of personnel - or both.

[Daryk]

Recon Cameras are dirt cheap, and don't require sensors (which can really add up over time, not to mention needing higher tech).

[Der Kommissar]

To each his own, of course, but my opinion is they do different jobs.  Recon cameras are good for LRM spotting, but of course you have to endanger the unit to do that, and you have to have a unit to do that.  Dispensed sensors (included with the dispenser!) can also spot for indirect fire, and while sensor losses do add up, they'll cost you less than a scout tank and its crew.  Not to mention they let you keep a network of eyes out so you know when someone's inside your perimeter in a way that's much more cost-effective than spamming Ferrets or Savannah Masters...provided you have some desk jockey in a command truck to monitor them. 

wrt. the technology point, I don't think that's very important when deciding which to use.  Yes, cameras are B vs. sensors' D, but that still makes them SW tech, and they never went extinct.

[Daryk]

It's mostly not a problem, but the Periphery has a history of trouble with acquiring TL D stuff.

[assaultdoor]

"Succession Wars tech" doesn't mean you can back a truck up to your local Succession Wars big box store and drive away with one of every TL D item whenever and wherever you happen to be. It means that, somewhere in the Inner Sphere (or the near Periphery), somebody can produce and repair it. Meanwhile, if some specific TL B item isn't produced locally but is generally well understood, there's a decent chance you can either have one delivered or start building it locally.

[Der Kommissar]

I'm just not buying that it'd be hard to source remote sensor dispensers, nothing in - say - the scout Pegasus or the now-apocryphal Ferret blurb about these sensors gives any indication they're bottlenecked tech (something we're constantly reminded is the case with mechs, fusion engines, dropships, jumpships, and some weapons in some places like PPCs).  I will note that, to the favor of your argument, the (sensor) variant of the ubiquitous Pegasus doesn't show up in the MUL for Periphery General or any of the major SW-era Periphery nations.

[wolfgar]

I know you guys have this thread for hovers, but you made me think of this variant for my H-7 types

Code: (H-7 Scout) [Select]

Warrior Attack Helicopter H-7S

Mass: 21 tons
Movement Type: VTOL
Power Plant: 50 ICE
Cruising Speed: 97.2 kph
Maximum Speed: 151.2 kph
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
     1 TAG
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3054
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-F-F
Cost: 1,085,790 C-bills

Type: Warrior Attack Helicopter
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Movement Type: VTOL
Tonnage: 21
Battle Value: 314

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                  2.5
Engine                        50 ICE                  3
Cruising MP: 9
Flank MP: 14
Heat Sinks:                   0                       0
Control Equipment:                                  1.5
Lift Equipment:                                     2.5
Power Amplifier:                                    0.0
Armor Factor (Ferro)          98                    5.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Front                   3         26   
     R/L Side               3/3      24/24   
     Rear                    3         22   
     Rotor                   3         2     


Weapons
and Ammo                           Location    Tonnage   
Remote Sensors/Dispenser             Rear        0.5     
Active Probe                        Front        1.5     
TAG                                 Rotor        1.0     
Recon Camera                        Rotor        0.5     
Mast Mount                          Rotor        0.5     
Communications Equipment (1 ton)     Body        1.0     
2 Extra Crew Seats                   Body        1.0     

Features the following design quirks: VTOL Rotor Arrangement


for all your low tech spotting needs

[Daryk]

If you take that ton of "crew seats" and make it more Communications Equipment, you'll get to the +1 initiative threshold, and each ton automatically comes with another crewman.

Of course, going old school with Fractional Accounting gets you another MP too.  And doing it right (which SAW doesn't yet) also gets you enough room for a Jet Booster...  ^-^

Code: [Select]

Warrror Recon

Mass: 21 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: VTOL
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-D-C
Production Year: 3025
Dry Cost:
Total Cost:
Battle Value:

Construction Options: Fractional Accounting

Power Plant:  70 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 108.0 km/h
Flanking Speed: 162.0 km/h
Armor:  Standard Armor
Armament:
    None
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      15 points                2.100
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                 70                       4.000
    Cruise MP:  10
    Flank MP:   15 [20]
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0.000
Control Equipment:                                                         1.050
Lift Equipment:                                                            2.100
Power Amplifiers:                                                          0.000
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV -  82                  5.125

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     20       
                                          Left/Right   20/20       
                                                Rear     20       
                                               Rotor      2         

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mast Mount                                   RO        0         1         0.500
Recon Camera                                 RO        0         1         0.500
TAG                                          RO        0         1         1.000
Beagle Active Probe                          FR        0         1         1.500
Communications Equipment (3 tons equivalent) BD        0         1         2.000
(R) Remote Sensor Dispenser                  RR        0         1         0.500
VTOL Jet Booster                             BD        0         1         0.400
Infantry Compartment (2 Scouts + gear)       BD        0         1         0.225

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 3
10v        0       0       0       0      1     0   Structure:  2
Special Abilities: TAG, PRB, RCN, ENE, EE

[DevianID]

For the Recon Camera, you still apply the spotting unit's movement and the terrain between the spotter and target, even though you hit with the camera like a TAG right?  Im used to semiguided with TAG, so it seems the only thing the recon camera does is let the recon unit shoot and spot at the same time right?  Thus, if you arnt shooting weapons (the vtol doest have any), the recon camera does nothing, since a mast mount allows spotting but not for TAG (and recon cameras acting like TAG by extension)?

[Daryk]

I have a riules question in about that.  TPTB haven't touched it yet.

[Der Kommissar]

Here's one of my own.  I had fluff written up, but I hit 'new' before saving it.  xp  The Wallaby IFV dates to the Age of War, and was built by the Federated Suns to facilitate more rapid redeployment of its infantry assets in response to border skirmishes.  It features a pretty spacious infantry compartment, allowing it to truck around up to a platoon of rifle infantry without complaint, then zip around supporting them with rifle and SRM fire (one of those tons of ammo is for frags or infernos, naturally).
 

Code: [Select]

Wallaby IFV

Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Hovercraft
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-F-X-X
Production Year: 2750
Dry Cost: 934,325 C-Bills
Total Cost: 990,325 C-Bills
Battle Value: 561

Power Plant:  125 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 86.4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 129.6 km/h
Armor:  Industrial
Armament:
    1  Medium Rifle
    2  SRM-4s
    1  Infantry Compartment (3.0 tons)
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      25 points                4.50
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                125                       8.00
    Cruise MP:  8
    Flank MP:   12
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            4.50
Turret:                                                                    1.00
Armor:              Primitive                   AV -  80                  7.50

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     20       
                                          Left/Right   15/15       
                                              Turret     20       
                                                Rear     10       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Rifle                                 T         2         1         5.00
2 SRM-4s                                     T         6         2         4.00
Infantry Compartment (3.0 tons)              BD        0         1         3.00
@Medium Rifle (18)                           BD        -         0         2.00
@SRM-4 (50)                                  BD        -         0         2.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 6
8h         2       2       0       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: EE, TUR(2/2/0, SRM 1/1/0), SRM 1/1/0

The 'Scout' Wallaby transforms those 3 tons of infantry space to a couple of tons of commo equipment, a recon cam, and a sensor dispenser.  The SRMs get the boot in exchange for LRMs, with the second ton of ammunition retained to carry something like smoke or FASCAM.  The medium rifle remains untouched, mostly just to pimp slap any Ashers or other BAR/7 armored tanks its enemies might still be using.

Code: [Select]

Wallaby IFV (Scout)

Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Hovercraft
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/D-F-X-X
Production Year: 2750
Dry Cost: 934,325 C-Bills
Total Cost: 996,325 C-Bills
Battle Value: 587

Power Plant:  125 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 86.4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 129.6 km/h
Armor:  Industrial
Armament:
    1  Medium Rifle
    2  LRM-5s
    1  Remote Sensor Dispenser
    1  Recon Camera
    1  Communications Equipment (1.0 tons) (2.0 tons)
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      25 points                4.50
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                125                       8.00
    Cruise MP:  8
    Flank MP:   12
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            4.50
Turret:                                                                    1.00
Armor:              Primitive                   AV -  80                  7.50

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     20       
                                          Left/Right   15/15       
                                              Turret     20       
                                                Rear     10       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(R) Remote Sensor Dispenser                  RR        0         1         0.50
Medium Rifle                                 T         2         1         5.00
Recon Camera                                 T         0         1         0.50
2 LRM-5s                                     T         4         2         4.00
Communications Equipment (1.0 tons) (2.0 tons) BD        0         1         2.00
@Medium Rifle (18)                           BD        -         0         2.00
@LRM-5 (48)                                  BD        -         0         2.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 6
8h         1       2       1       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: EE, TUR(1/2/1), IF 1

Naturally, both of these tanks have 'modernized' variants which are happily tooling around the Davion Outback to this day.  ;)  The infantry transport ups its bay to 4 tons - jump infantry platoons can now ride - and chucks the medium rifle out for an AC/2.  Well...at least you get specialty ammo.  Armor is naturally modern now as well, and considerably thicker despite shaving a ton.  The modernized scout ends up with a half-ton left over that I threw into armor.  Bummer about that turret weight, or I probably would've kept a tiny infantry compartment to carry a squad of guys, mostly for flavor.

Code: [Select]

Wallaby IFV (Modernized)

Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Hovercraft
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/C-D-D-C
Production Year: 2750
Dry Cost: 985,625 C-Bills
Total Cost: 1,040,625 C-Bills
Battle Value: 580

Power Plant:  125 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 86.4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 129.6 km/h
Armor:  Standard Armor
Armament:
    2  SRM-4s
    1  Autocannon/2
    1  Infantry Compartment (4.0 tons)
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      25 points                4.50
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                125                       8.00
    Cruise MP:  8
    Flank MP:   12
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            4.50
Turret:                                                                    1.00
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 104                  6.50

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     25       
                                          Left/Right   20/20       
                                              Turret     21       
                                                Rear     18       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 SRM-4s                                     T         6         2         4.00
Autocannon/2                                 T         1         1         6.00
Infantry Compartment (4.0 tons)              BD        0         1         4.00
@SRM-4 (50)                                  BD        -         0         2.00
@AC/2 (45)                                   BD        -         0         1.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      3    Points: 6
8h         2       2       1       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: EE, TUR(2/2/1, SRM 1/1/0), SRM 1/1/0


Code: [Select]

Wallaby IFV (Modernized Scout)

Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Motive Type: Hovercraft
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Age of War/Star League
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/D-D-D-C
Production Year: 2750
Dry Cost: 999,875 C-Bills
Total Cost: 1,060,875 C-Bills
Battle Value: 626

Power Plant:  125 I.C.E.
Cruise Speed: 86.4 km/h
Flanking Speed: 129.6 km/h
Armor:  Standard Armor
Armament:
    2  LRM-5s
    1  Autocannon/2
    1  Remote Sensor Dispenser
    1  Recon Camera
    1  Communications Equipment (1.0 tons) (2.0 tons)
Manufacturer:
    Primary Factory:
Communications System:
Targeting and Tracking System:

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      25 points                4.50
Engine:             I.C.E. Engine                125                       8.00
    Cruise MP:  8
    Flank MP:   12
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             0                         0.00
Control Equipment:                                                         2.50
Lift Equipment:                                                            4.50
Turret:                                                                    1.50
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 112                  7.00

                                                      Armor     
                                                      Factor     
                                               Front     25       
                                          Left/Right   21/21       
                                              Turret     25       
                                                Rear     20       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat     Spaces     Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(R) Remote Sensor Dispenser                  RR        0         1         0.50
Autocannon/2                                 T         1         1         6.00
2 LRM-5s                                     T         4         2         4.00
Recon Camera                                 T         0         1         0.50
Communications Equipment (1.0 tons) (2.0 tons) BD        0         1         2.00
@AC/2 (45)                                   BD        -         0         1.00
@LRM-5 (48)                                  BD        -         0         2.00

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      4    Points: 6
8h         1       1       1       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: EE, TUR(1/1/1), IF 1


[Daryk]

On the upgrade at least, I'd trade the extra LRM ammo for another ton of Communications equipment.  3 equivalent tons gets you +1 initiative, but the 4th gets you satellite links.  8)

[Der Kommissar]

I actually mulled the same thing, honestly - a choice between a sat uplink and a ton of ammo for smoke/mines is a reasonably juicy one.  Of course, dropping some armor would also be a reasonable alternative, you're not really meant to get in the enemy's teeth in a Wallaby.  It'd make you that much more vulnerable to the opfor's fast bois, though.

[Daryk]

If you want ammo options, just split the ammo bays in half.  8)

[Daryk]

For the Recon Camera, you still apply the spotting unit's movement and the terrain between the spotter and target, even though you hit with the camera like a TAG right?  Im used to semiguided with TAG, so it seems the only thing the recon camera does is let the recon unit shoot and spot at the same time right?  Thus, if you arnt shooting weapons (the vtol doest have any), the recon camera does nothing, since a mast mount allows spotting but not for TAG (and recon cameras acting like TAG by extension)?

TPTB have confirmed Recon Cameras can be mounted in Mast Mounts: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/tactical-operations/recon-cameras-and-mast-mounts/msg1821736/#msg1821736