Author Topic: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion  (Read 129361 times)

Colt Ward

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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #210 on: 04 July 2020, 02:08:44 »
The Sojourner's 'gun arm' is a interesting twist on the Omni design . . . and a good application with the for 2 big guns on the arm- ERPPC &UAC10, 2 ERLPL, Large Pulse & RAC/2 . . . even the single guns are interesting, Gauss is that way b/c of crits- though the Plasma Cannon or ERLL could have gone there- and Heavy Large compensates for the -1TH from being a Heavy without explosive bits.

The Horse's Stone Rhino exists to kill the Falcon's Eyries, anything but Gyrfalcon w/reflec, and a lot of their other new stuff.  It is a murder machine.
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #211 on: 04 July 2020, 02:11:10 »
No need to wait!  #2 just came out!
This is a surprise for me then. I will check it out later then.

Colt Ward

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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #212 on: 04 July 2020, 02:13:29 »
Nice to see the Bushie and Gauntlet were actually linked.
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #213 on: 04 July 2020, 02:15:29 »
Nice to see the Bushie and Gauntlet were actually linked.
I was just about to comment that I liked that info as well
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #214 on: 04 July 2020, 02:36:56 »
Yes, I also feel there's an unusual amount of "historical" references and canon cleanup going on in these Recognition Guides. And I love CGL and the authors for it!  :thumbsup:
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #215 on: 04 July 2020, 06:55:58 »
The Ostscout fluff text is amazing.
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #216 on: 04 July 2020, 07:30:39 »
I'm liking the Sojourner a lot. Maybe more than I should like a 60-tonner, but its the type of commonsense, well-thought out design that we don't see a lot from the Clanners, and its a nice change.

The update to the Bushwhacker is awesome, and I can't help but enjoy the confirmation that the Gauntlet and Bushwhacker are linked.

CGL is making it very very difficult to not want to buy one of every Lance, Star and Level II so far...

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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #217 on: 04 July 2020, 07:49:50 »
Was there compromise with the Sojourner?  I was surprised to see that it had a inferior standard Heavy Large Lasers verses the Improved version.  Resources needy?
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #218 on: 04 July 2020, 07:58:49 »
Took the Sojourner out for a few test runs, ran it against similarly-BV'd Clan 'Mechs.

The Prime is pretty decent, though as with a lot of designs I wish it had a second ton of Plasma ammo.

The A, against all expectations, was pretty fun. Very accurate with its firepower, probably good at taking out lighter or more maneuverable 'Mechs. Cheap in BV so easier to field, don't really case about the Micros 'cause it's just a ton and they're good back-up crit-seekers if the RAC/2 jams. Just wish a third ton of PAC ammo had been scrounged up.

I can see the B having a small niche, but it got absolutely mauled by the Guillotine IIC it went up against. Not a config I'm a fan of, pretty pricey in BV for the damage it can put out.

The C is a nice fire support variant. Like the deep bins and it has enough sinks to bring the HLL into play in more of a direct combat role. Works well.

The D is a variant I really want to like, but it kept getting its right arm torn off before anything else, leaving it mostly neutered.

All in all, pretty interesting 'Mech. Bit fragile for a "tough" 'Mech; the 20 points of armor on the torsos or arms really gets stripped fast in Clan warfare, and the Sojourner ain't fast enough to keep the TMMs high to avoid that. Its probably a 'Mech that works best at bullying lighter or more fragile 'Mechs. I like it, though, it's interesting and I'm willing to forgive most of its faults because of that.

Was there compromise with the Sojourner?  I was surprised to see that it had a inferior standard Heavy Large Lasers verses the Improved version.  Resources needy?

Nothing said in the fluff about it. It does shave roughly 90 points off of its BV, and reduces the number of possible explosions on an already pretty explodish variant. I don't think it's a bad choice for what remains mostly a fire-support 'Mech.
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #219 on: 04 July 2020, 11:05:33 »
It's gonna be really hard to leave my Behemoth mini as it is, and not turn it into a 4 model, especially since it's a Jaguar Invasion-era machine, making it plausible for IS capture. :smitten:
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Colt Ward

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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #220 on: 04 July 2020, 11:47:46 »
Was there compromise with the Sojourner?  I was surprised to see that it had a inferior standard Heavy Large Lasers verses the Improved version.  Resources needy?

Improved goes Boom . . . Sojourner is all about surviving, so reduction of things that can go boom in the chassis or their effect.  The +1 is offset by the AES so it works out.  I expect Sojourners are going to circle to an opponent's left to kind of shelter that right side and keep the gun arm in place.
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #221 on: 04 July 2020, 11:52:24 »
It's gonna be really hard to leave my Behemoth mini as it is, and not turn it into a 4 model, especially since it's a Jaguar Invasion-era machine, making it plausible for IS capture. :smitten:

I think that's the first time I've ever seen someone say that they want to field the Behemoth 4. I'm impressed.
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #222 on: 04 July 2020, 12:26:38 »
also, the Stone Rhino entry confirms it is named for a real animal in the Clan Homeworlds...

I realize most people probably never thought twice about it, but it has never actually been mentioned in canon before (AFAIK)
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #223 on: 04 July 2020, 13:24:41 »
I think that's the first time I've ever seen someone say that they want to field the Behemoth 4. I'm impressed.

If only it didn't have single heatsinks.
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #224 on: 04 July 2020, 13:25:11 »
Instead of Clan Stone Lion, maybe they should have gone with Clan Stone Rhino.

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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #225 on: 04 July 2020, 13:31:01 »
Instead of Clan Stone Lion, maybe they should have gone with Clan Stone Rhino.

I always felt it was weird that they named the Stone Lions so close to an already existing name that also had Clan origins...but that's just my opinion
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #226 on: 04 July 2020, 13:31:22 »
I'm imagining a modern rhino, but with Precambrian-style bone plates around the head and forward torso.

Also, that it is much more nimble than it looks, occupying a niche similar to a mountain goat.

Also, skulls. Because.

Wait, wrong setting.

If only it didn't have single heatsinks.

I did not notice the heat sinks.

...meh. If I can handle a Fire Scorpion 2, I can handle this. Real warriors attempt shutdown rolls! Also, cheaper BV, so huzzah!
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #227 on: 04 July 2020, 14:10:11 »
My only wish right now is that the MUL was updated alongside these releases.  It sounds like many of these are on the open market.

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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #228 on: 04 July 2020, 14:18:52 »
Has there ever been an explanation (in-universe or real world) for the Behemoth 4's single heat sinks?

When I first saw it in RS:3055U I assumed it was a mistake, but now it's repeated here.   ???
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #229 on: 04 July 2020, 14:45:30 »
I'm guessing that blueprints for an AS7-K fell into a black hole, resulting in them being sent back in time. They were then discovered by a Clan scientist who looked at them and said "switching to an XL engine and single heatsinks? Brilliant!"

Focusing on other mechs for a minute, I love the new Zeus. Never liked the Zeus X, so it's great to see the original getting some love in the 32nd century.
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #230 on: 04 July 2020, 15:05:25 »
also, the Stone Rhino entry confirms it is named for a real animal in the Clan Homeworlds...

I realize most people probably never thought twice about it, but it has never actually been mentioned in canon before (AFAIK)

The stone rhino (animal) is pictured in "A Time of War" p. 239.
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #231 on: 04 July 2020, 15:07:04 »
Has there ever been an explanation (in-universe or real world) for the Behemoth 4's single heat sinks?

When I first saw it in RS:3055U I assumed it was a mistake, but now it's repeated here.   ???

If you look at the record sheet, there’s not enough consecutive critical slots for the fifth double heat sink outside the engine (counting the slots for the five heat sinks themselves, there are four open criticals in each arm, and one each in the head, CT and each leg). Each arm could take two double heat sinks with the rest of the equipment, but you’d have a double heat sink left over which could not be distributed in the remaining open space.

Edit: BTW, I’m simply amazed at the amount of machine gun ammo on that model. Really seems geared toward using rapid fire rules.

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« Last Edit: 04 July 2020, 15:10:28 by Ruger »
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #232 on: 04 July 2020, 15:38:37 »
If you look at the record sheet, there’s not enough consecutive critical slots for the fifth double heat sink outside the engine (counting the slots for the five heat sinks themselves, there are four open criticals in each arm, and one each in the head, CT and each leg). Each arm could take two double heat sinks with the rest of the equipment, but you’d have a double heat sink left over which could not be distributed in the remaining open space.

But that can't be the main reason for it, 'cause then you could just go for 16 doubles and use the remaining ton on pretty much anything else.

In the Behemoth's MotW article they talk about it being from MechWarrior 2: Ghost Bear's Legacy....but I never played the game, and google didn't help me when I tried to find its stats.
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #233 on: 04 July 2020, 16:59:13 »
Since when does TAG need to be a gun?

But very well, use a recon camera instead and use the other half ton for something else (like more armor).

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The TAG is basically a laser that shoots a beam that missiles can home in on. We have that tech in real life.
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #234 on: 04 July 2020, 17:18:48 »
Frankly that Ostscout 12R feels like the ultimate scout killer.  It can keep up with damn near any scouting unit, is stealthed, and has one of the longest-range guns in the game - which means its short and medium ranges are equally outmatching other scouts.  Between a +4 jumping TMM and medium range stealth, that's going to make you nigh-unhittable for typical scout mechs trying to shoot back, and they can't escape your mobility.  Use it as a screener and never look back.
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #235 on: 04 July 2020, 17:26:48 »
What gets me about Sojourner C is not that it's using a Heavy Large Laser when it could be using an improved model, but that an ER one would have been better overall. Not only would it be a better match for the LRMs in terms of range, but it could use both them and the laser without overheating

On the other hand, I have no idea what A is trying to do
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Ruger

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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #236 on: 04 July 2020, 17:35:37 »
The TAG is basically a laser that shoots a beam that missiles can home in on. We have that tech in real life.

*ahem* I know that it is basically a glorified one ton laser pointer. My point is that it doesn’t necessarily need to be a gun barrel. It could be fully contained in the torso with only a minor opening (like a slit) for the laser to project through.

But whatever you think it should be should work for your games.

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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #237 on: 04 July 2020, 17:45:08 »
Frankly that Ostscout 12R feels like the ultimate scout killer.  It can keep up with damn near any scouting unit, is stealthed, and has one of the longest-range guns in the game - which means its short and medium ranges are equally outmatching other scouts.  Between a +4 jumping TMM and medium range stealth, that's going to make you nigh-unhittable for typical scout mechs trying to shoot back, and they can't escape your mobility.  Use it as a screener and never look back.

Nahh, not accurate enough to be a scout-killer. Makes for a great harasser or raider, though.
Now if you want a light scout-killer, the Venom -9KC is your man. Shorter ranged, but tough and can reliably hit quick scouts.
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #238 on: 04 July 2020, 17:46:06 »
Having an 8-hex short range is de-facto accuracy though.
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Re: Recognition Guide: ilClan Discussion
« Reply #239 on: 04 July 2020, 17:51:10 »
On the other hand, I have no idea what [Sojourner] A is trying to do

With the AES on the LPL and precision ammo for the PAC, it should be pretty good at hitting fast things.  Of course, the PAC/8 has all the range of an AC/20.  It looks like it's designed to fight against Hell's Horses Mongol tactics.

 

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