Poll

Which of these is your favored mech for a medium fire lance?

CPLT-C1 Catapult
13 (21.7%)
CPLT-C4 Catapult
1 (1.7%)
DV-6M Dervish
11 (18.3%)
LCT-1M Locust
0 (0%)
TBT-5J Trebuchet
3 (5%)
TBT-5N Trebuchet
11 (18.3%)
VLK-QA Valkyrie
0 (0%)
WTH-1 Whitworth
4 (6.7%)
HBK-4J Hunchback
5 (8.3%)
BMB-10D Bombardier
0 (0%)
CRD-3R Crusader
5 (8.3%)
I want to be an observer [No vote]
5 (8.3%)
JM6-A Jagermech
0 (0%)
CPLT-A1 Catapult
1 (1.7%)
CRD-3L Crusader
1 (1.7%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Voting closed: 30 April 2020, 19:10:23

Author Topic: Medium Fire Lance poll  (Read 7610 times)

Minemech

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Medium Fire Lance poll
« on: 16 April 2020, 19:10:23 »
Which of these is your favored mech for a fire lance in a medium company? Why?
 Feel free to throw in factors such as long term costs vs battlefield effectiveness, or whatever else interests you.
 I intentionally left out some choices like the Archer. This was not to denigrate them.

 EDIT: If there is a mech I overlooked, that you really want to vote for, I am reading the comments, and can modify the poll. I cannot guarantee that I will do it within an ideal timeframe. The mechs above show that the emphasis is on what is currently called introtech, but was formerly known as tech 1.
« Last Edit: 17 April 2020, 19:58:42 by Minemech »

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #1 on: 17 April 2020, 00:11:40 »
5N Treb.  It's not great, but something about it just feels right for a medium fire support mech.
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worktroll

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #2 on: 17 April 2020, 00:15:03 »
Of the ones listed, I'd agree. I'd probably take the Hunchback 4J over the Treb, or the 4H - yes, I know 'fire lance' does not 100% mean 'indirect fire", but LRM-20 beats AC-10, and 5ML on a heavily armoured shell ain't too shabby bracket fire.
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Crimson Dawn

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #3 on: 17 April 2020, 00:27:37 »
I voted for a C1 catapult because it is just great.  Granted it does not carry a lot of ammo but it does some good work at range and then can get up close and be very effective.

Honorable mention goes to the Dervish which is also a great all rounder and could make for a decent scout for the lance if needed.  It also can carry infernos with its SRMs which is very versatile.  Only reason I did not choose it was because if this was the direct fire lance I first want a unit with a little bit more firepower at range.

Oddly in my Succession War merc unit I made up the fire lance includes both a C1 catapult and the dervish.  The other two units are a vindicator and a whitworth.

Sartris

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #4 on: 17 April 2020, 00:29:38 »
Contenders
CPLT-C1 - sentimental pick. it really is one of my favorite mechs. not enough ammo though
CPLT-C4 - better, but i generally don't put a fire support heavy in a medium lance
TBT-5N - boring, but both mobile and effective.
WTH-1 - i have a deep-seeded hatred for this guy. it's probably unwarranted
HBK-4J - it bugs me that both launchers are in the same torso. it's good otherwise.

Nah
DV-6M - lost too many to ammo explosions
LCT-1M - lol?
TBT-5J - only if i need fire support that can jump 5. i'd probably rather have a dervish in that case.
VLK-QA - not enough tubes
BMB-10D - even worse ammo issues
CRD-3R - ammo bomb

i'd probably go with the treb or hunchback

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worktroll

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #5 on: 17 April 2020, 00:50:41 »
Lance of Trebuchets - 120 LRM tubes, 15 medium lasers, 30 tons of armour.

Lance of Hunchbacks - 80 LRM tubes, 25 medium lasers, 40 tons of armour.

Of course, you can make your fire lance 2 Hunchies and 2 Trebs!
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Vonshroom

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #6 on: 17 April 2020, 03:05:28 »
Easy one. Picked the 5N Trebuchet because I have had good luck with them. Boringly reliable comes to mind. Nothing fancy, but they get the job done. In universe I imagine them to be very similar to this description as well. Ran one for a while in a mercenary lance I put together for TT and its proved its worth.

Honorable mention to the Dervish. The ammo situation makes me a little nervous but there is just something fun about the mech. If I am putting together a more mobile lance (all Jumpers) the Dervish wins out over the 5J Trebuchet in my book.
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Caedis Animus

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #7 on: 17 April 2020, 03:52:50 »
LCT-1M - lol?
Honestly, I like the Locust 1M. But putting it in a Medium Fire Lance seems like a waste.

Daryk

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #8 on: 17 April 2020, 04:33:54 »
The Hunchback wins on versatility, I think.

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #9 on: 17 April 2020, 06:23:35 »
Dervish, no holds barred. To me, for a medium Fire (support) unit, it has to be there. It has the speed (for its size), mobility, and firepower to contribute in any battle.

And to the naysayers worried about ammo, I had one last 22 rounds in a 24 round game, and only lost it after a leg had been blown off, and it did not die to ammo explosion IIRC. I still had ammo for both LRM launchers too, and had made alpha strikes with it at least twice in the game (and that is with the introtech 6M model).

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #10 on: 17 April 2020, 07:07:26 »
Trebuchet 5N.

Good long range. Decent short range. Mobile. Heat isn't too bad if you bracket fire, and the armor doesn't completely suck.

One giant collection of compromises, but it works.
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #11 on: 17 April 2020, 07:45:27 »
Honestly, I like the Locust 1M. But putting it in a Medium Fire Lance seems like a waste.

That’s what I mean. The 1M is not a good fit for a situation where it’s going to die in one or two hits

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CrossfirePilot

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #12 on: 17 April 2020, 07:53:09 »
I still take the CRD.  For everyone that complains about ammo boomminess I have never had a problem with that.  Usually I am out of LRMs before that really becomes an issue.  The only thing I hate about it is the designers intent on putting MGs on it instead of extra HS.  Why oh why did everything in the original box set have to include 2 wasted tons of MGs?

Simon Landmine

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #13 on: 17 April 2020, 10:42:13 »
The only thing I hate about it is the designers intent on putting MGs on it instead of extra HS.  Why oh why did everything in the original box set have to include 2 wasted tons of MGs?

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #14 on: 17 April 2020, 10:58:55 »
A rational fear of infantry. >:D
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #15 on: 17 April 2020, 11:21:48 »
CPLT-C1 Catapult - Twin LRM-20s with limited ammo and effectively no defense?  Not ideal, in my opinion, AND it's a Heavy. 

CPLT-C4 Catapult - Twin LRM-15s make this rather effective at LRM spam while the limited ammo lasts, and then it's a Heavy in-fighter to be feared.  I'd gladly put one or two in a HEAVY Fire Lance, but not a Medium.

DV-6M Dervish - Reasonable firepower, good mobility, and adequate armor.  Nothing spectacular, but adequate all around.  There are better choices, but it would do.

LCT-1M Locust - This unit is excellent for raiding and harassing, in the right hands, but totally under-gunned for a Fire Support role except possibly for a fast Light formation.  It's likely to survive a battle due to its speed, but that won't save your front line.  Pass, quickly.

TBT-5J Trebuchet - Adequate LRM capability and good maneuverability make this a viable choice for a "cavalry" type force, but the jump capability takes away too much from its intended role compared to the -5N model.  Depending on the force I'm using it with, it's either a reasonable choice or a mediocre one.

TBT-5N Trebuchet - Twin LRM-15s provide excellent LRM spam while the limited ammo lasts, but the shallow bins are a "feature" rather than a flaw, because the thin torso side armor won't last more than a couple of hits.  I've seen far too many of these 'Mechs blow up when the unpadded ammo bins take a hit.  You MUST use up the ammo before losing the side torso armor, but then it turns into a semi-decent brawler with 3 MLs and reasonable 5/8 mobility.  It's not perfect, but probably my #2 choice for the role.

VLK-QA Valkyrie - The single LRM-10 rack just isn't adequate for the tonnage, and the single backup weapon offers little defense.  The 5/8/5 speed isn't quite enough to protect it against the fast units that would typically be used to attack a fire support unit, and it can't out-fight them.  Quite simply, there is no reason to take this 'Mech unless it's all you have.

WTH-1 Whitworth - The WTH delivers the same twin LRM-10 barrage as a DV and packs similar short range firepower, as well as similar armor, in a package that's 15 tons lighter and costs far less.  The difference is primarily in speed: 4/6/4 instead of 5/8/5, which is fine for supporting a Medium front line of HBK, CN, ENF, and VND units, but a bit slow for backing up a more mobile formation of 5/8/x movers.  If cost or tonnage are a constraint, then the WTH offers the best "bang for the buck", but it's not the best unit out there overall.  Once the ammo bins run dry, the triple MLs come into play, and it's generally more than adequate as an in-fighter against the already hammered units remaining on the front line.  With no tonnage or cost constraints to make it preferable, it's simply less 'Mech than the heavier options, but will hold its own surprisingly well against most of them.

HBK-4J Hunchback - This thing is remarkable.  It delivers the same LRM firepower as a DV or WTH, and then converts into a powerful brawler once the ammo runs out.  It shares the depressingly thin rear side armor of its HBK siblings, but that ceases to be a problem when the bins are empty.  It also shares their decent heat sinking, as well as their decent armor, and packs 5 MLs, making it nearly as fearsome in close as a -4P.  It makes the perfect bodyguard for a Fire Lance, and is my FIRST choice overall, but I wouldn't want a full lance of them because I'd rather have a couple of TBTs and GRFs providing the bulk of the ranged support, with one or two of this thing to protect them while contributing to the main mission.

BMB-10D Bombardier - Again, it's not a Medium, and is poorly protected.  The right tool for some other job, not this one.  Pass.

CRD-3R Crusader - The twin LRM-15s deliver effective long-range support, but the heat sinking is rather marginal, forcing occasional firing of only one rack, which leaves it only slightly more effective at sustained fire than with twin LRM-10s.  The secondary weaponry is rather impressive on paper, until you realize how little you can fire in a sustained engagement.  Then there's the issue of LRM ammo, SRM ammo, and MG ammo, and a tendency to go up in a blaze of something that I would not consider "glory".  Worse, the SRMs cannot be fired into the side arcs, as they are leg mounted, leaving the 'Mech somewhat under-gunned against anything that gets around it and out of its front arc of fire.  Basically, it's a dangerous opponent, but with major weaknesses which can be exploited.  As with the CPLT and BMB, it's also a Heavy, so that's another strike against it in this role.

The GRF isn't mentioned, but it's quite capable of providing fire support, both direct and indirect.  Perhaps not my first pick, but I'd probably add one to the lance.

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #16 on: 17 April 2020, 12:06:29 »
point of order: a medium lance does not have to contain all medium units. the old battleforce designations were total tonnage ranges and more recently CampOps defined a medium lance as one that is at least half mediums and no assaults. a heavy, two mediums and a light constitute a medium battle lance

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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #17 on: 17 April 2020, 12:48:27 »
The Whitworth wins it for me on efficiency.  40 tons, fast enough for a firesupport platform, more than adequate close-in defense for its size, and it brings as many LRM tubes as a Dervish, Hunchback-4J, or two Valkyries?  Sign me up.




I will say, that if “firesupport” includes more than LRMs (and it should), then the Griffin deserves to be here.  Also the Rifleman and JagerMech.  And really, the JM6-A should be on this list regardless.  The Dragon/Grand Dragon probably ought to be on here as well, honestly.
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Brakiel

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #18 on: 17 April 2020, 12:58:37 »
For the typical game, I go with the Catapult-C4C1 . Short bins are a feature, not a bug. If there were 2 tons per launcher, I doubt I would be able to burn through both. Even without intentionally being rushed, the flow of combat usually ends up with people getting fairly close anyways. So lob missiles until empty, then close in for the laser array and kicks.
« Last Edit: 17 April 2020, 15:42:27 by Brakiel »

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #19 on: 17 April 2020, 13:01:23 »
For the typical game, I go with the Catapult-C4. Short bins are a feature, not a bug. If there were 2 tons per launcher, I doubt I would be able to burn through both. Even without intentionally being rushed, the flow of combat usually ends up with people getting fairly close anyways. So lob missiles until empty, then close in for the laser array and kicks.
I think you’re thinking of the C1.
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Brakiel

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #20 on: 17 April 2020, 13:07:20 »
I think you’re thinking of the C1.

No, I mean C4. I typically aim for 10-12 volleys for my ammo using weapons (a bit more in eras when CASE is available). That's enough for a solid engagement if you want to spam consistently, or be chary with your shots in case you have sequential battles (in campaigns). A CPLT-C4's 1 ton per launcher is a bit short, IMO.

EDIT: Derp.
« Last Edit: 17 April 2020, 15:42:03 by Brakiel »

Minemech

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #21 on: 17 April 2020, 13:09:09 »
I will say, that if “firesupport” includes more than LRMs (and it should), then the Griffin deserves to be here.  Also the Rifleman and JagerMech.  And really, the JM6-A should be on this list regardless.  The Dragon/Grand Dragon probably ought to be on here as well, honestly.
The principle reason that I did not list the Griffin, is that it tends to be many a player's 3rd, or 4th lance member of choice. Despite being focused on long range combat, it works in a wide assortment of lances. For that reason, it will often end up in a fire lance. Players not experienced in building company formations may overestimate its role, or value to them in such a lance.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #22 on: 17 April 2020, 13:44:15 »
No, I mean C4. I typically aim for 10-12 volleys for my ammo using weapons (a bit more in eras when CASE is available). That's enough for a solid engagement if you want to spam consistently, or be chary with your shots in case you have sequential battles (in campaigns). A CPLT-C4's 1 ton per launcher is a bit short, IMO.
The C4 has two tons per launcher.  2 LRM20s, 2 tons of ammo apiece (12 rounds/launcher), and 2 SLs.
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #23 on: 17 April 2020, 14:13:09 »
HBK-4J Swayback for me plz! Though it's practically underweight heavy 'Mech, I have found it (and other Hunchbacks/Swaybacks) to be very effective in BV balanced games. Derv, Trenchbucket, and Worthless are better mediums due to their speed and jump capabilities. TBT-5N is often paired up with TBT-5S. Something to consider if you care about fluff.
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #24 on: 17 April 2020, 14:13:17 »
CPLT-A1 is my choice, but it's not even listed, so HBK-4J.

Hunchie all the way, hands for physicals, indirect and direct weapons, two bins to load different ammos.

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #25 on: 17 April 2020, 15:07:38 »
That’s what I mean. The 1M is not a good fit for a situation where it’s going to die in one or two hits

The Locust 1M is alright for a light fire support mech. It's a waste in a medium lance.

For a light mech in a fire support lance I would way rather have something more survivable that can spot for indirect. Trying to add enough LRM tubes to matter on a light mech just doesnt add up. I have done alright with Valkyries backing heavier units, but are too slow to be of much use as a scout.

A Jenner JR-7F, would be ideal, Javelin (Maybe the 10A with a single LRM-15) or an Assassin would be ideal but now we are into light-medium weight territory. The lights role in a medium fire support lance is establishing LOS for indirect fire,scouting and potentially harassment. Period.
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #26 on: 17 April 2020, 15:38:35 »
Which of these is your favored mech for a fire lance in a medium company? Why?
 Feel free to throw in factors such as long term costs vs battlefield effectiveness, or whatever else interests you.
 I intentionally left out some choices like the Archer. This was not to denigrate them.

When I think "fire lance in a medium company I figure we are talking about a unit that probably has 7+ medium mechs and no more than 3 heavies. Obviously with the choices given we are limited to 3025 era mechs. In a company sized force a "fire lance" does not connotate strictly "indirect fire support". But with all the LRM boats you posted clearly your line of thinking leans towards the LRM / Indirect side of the house. Also I'd be inclined to save my heavy mechs for a separate lance.

My ideal "medium fire support lance" would look something like this:

1. Centurion / Griffin / Wolverine / Shad /  :   This is your lineholder / direct fire mech / bodyguard role
2. Trebuchet 5N : Fire Support - LRM spam
3. Trebuchet 5N : Fire Support - LRM spam
4. Assassin / Jenner : Scout for indirect fire / harasser

This lance would in theory be a supplement to a heavier command / main assault element (Command lance) as well as a lighter / faster lance to scout and harass. Your fire support needs to be able to be responsive and pummel things your command lance pins in place, or quickly respond to your scout lances contact.
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Brakiel

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #27 on: 17 April 2020, 15:41:32 »
The C4 has two tons per launcher.  2 LRM20s, 2 tons of ammo apiece (12 rounds/launcher), and 2 SLs.

Well, that's egg on my face...  :D :D :D

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #28 on: 17 April 2020, 15:53:33 »
Well, that's egg on my face...  :D :D :D

Yeah I am not letting you lead me into battle.

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #29 on: 17 April 2020, 16:08:14 »
Yeah I am not letting you lead me into battle.

"yeah he's fired 8 shots boys.  Means he's out!  CHARGE!"

Was that a C1 Catapult or a C4? you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #30 on: 17 April 2020, 16:19:21 »
Yeah I am not letting you lead me into battle.
"yeah he's fired 8 shots boys.  Means he's out!  CHARGE!"

Well, you're not going to have to worry about him leading you into battle twice!

(Can't get too harsh, though, as I still need to look up almost anything that wasn't in 2nd edition just to confirm it's what I think it is, if I have any idea.)
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #31 on: 17 April 2020, 17:15:06 »
The Catapult C-1 has always been a pain to face. It's a long-range firing unit, but if you try to get a quick jumper near it, the Catapult can re-position quickly with its jump jets and it has those damn medium lasers! The thing doesn't go down easily.

That's what makes it my choice in this poll. That and the sweet appearance (which is 90% of the reasons why I choose 'Mechs).

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #32 on: 17 April 2020, 17:27:50 »
I didn't vote anything but to be observant (but I'm surprised nobody has picked the Dakamech: The Jagermech-A.)
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #33 on: 17 April 2020, 17:33:31 »
A rational fear of infantry. >:D
Mere machine guns wouldn't stop you, though...  ^-^

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #34 on: 17 April 2020, 17:35:05 »
I didn't vote anything but to be observant (but I'm surprised nobody has picked the Dakamech: The Jagermech-A.)

Medium fire lance. Yes I know heavies are allowed, but ... and yes, love the JM6-A.
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #35 on: 17 April 2020, 19:12:59 »
Mere machine guns wouldn't stop you, though...  ^-^

A lance with 4 or 6 machine guns might, if I'm not running troops with heavy armor. I try not to throw units away willy nilly, even grunts. You put a Crud in your fire lance, maybe escort them with a Stinger, and I'm already considering sending my troops after a nice juicy Atlas instead.
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #36 on: 17 April 2020, 19:18:55 »
Emphasis on the "might" there... You have quite the reputation, sir!  8)

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #37 on: 17 April 2020, 19:27:24 »
If reputation alone makes players plan ahead and bring antipersonnel guns just in case, then I've done Battletech right, even if I didn't actually bring any such troops. :thumbsup:
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #38 on: 17 April 2020, 19:52:53 »
 To clarify any confusion, I am adding suggestions. That is why some mechs may not have votes yet. I was tired when I first posted this poll, and it shows.

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #39 on: 17 April 2020, 19:54:12 »
If reputation alone makes players plan ahead and bring antipersonnel guns just in case, then I've done Battletech right, even if I didn't actually bring any such troops. :thumbsup:
PSYOP is all about getting people to act on their assumptions...  ^-^

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #40 on: 17 April 2020, 21:49:16 »
I didn't vote anything but to be observant (but I'm surprised nobody has picked the Dakamech: The Jagermech-A.)
I think it was added late.  That or I just didn't see it.  I chose the Whitworth.
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #41 on: 17 April 2020, 21:54:43 »
So what is the weight range of a Medium Fire Lance?

Would it be a I would think it would be no more than 200 total tons?

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #42 on: 17 April 2020, 22:28:24 »
depends on what source you're working with. NAIS 4th war atlas volume 1 puts a medium lance between 135-200 tons.

tw's random lance table gives you the possibilities of
1L 2M 1H
4M
3M 1H
2M 2H

CampOps says a medium lance has two mediums and no assaults but doesn't put any other restrictions on the remaining two. A heavy lance has two heavies and no lights - so the 2M 2H could be either (the special ability gained doesn't change so it's semantics, really)

personally the judgement call i made before i knew any of the official designations was that the average weight of units the lance determined the size

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #43 on: 17 April 2020, 23:12:09 »
personally the judgement call i made before i knew any of the official designations was that the average weight of units the lance determined the size
Makes most sense when lance has 2 lights and 2 heavy-assault. There are canonical examples of such, at least in the novels and in some scenario books. What weight of lance is Firelance of Black Widow Company? (2 ARC and 2 WSP/STG)
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #44 on: 18 April 2020, 00:14:02 »
So what is the weight range of a Medium Fire Lance?

Would it be a I would think it would be no more than 200 total tons?
I mean, 4 55 tonners would be 220 tons, and that's certainly a medium lance.  Even if you throw in a low-end heavy, make it 60/55/55/55, for 225 tons, and I'd still call that a medium lance.  Broadly, anything with an average weight under 60 tons and more than 35 tons could be called a medium lance.  Though that does lead to absurdities like "An Atlas and three UrbanMechs is a medium lance, right?  It averages 42.5 tons."
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #45 on: 18 April 2020, 00:16:28 »
yeah, the old-school 4SW ranges had some weird items like being able to have an assault lance without an assault mech

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #46 on: 18 April 2020, 06:39:32 »
Heck, the low end of the range you quoted for a Medium Lance could be reached with three Jenners and an Urbanmech...

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #47 on: 18 April 2020, 09:37:18 »
I've voted for the Catapult-C1 for the reasons stated by others, second place would be the Dervish-6M.

Would have considered the Shadow Hawk-2K as well.

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #48 on: 18 April 2020, 15:15:46 »
I've voted for the Catapult-C1 for the reasons stated by others, second place would be the Dervish-6M.

Would have considered the Shadow Hawk-2K as well.

If we add that we should probably add the vindicator as well.

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #49 on: 18 April 2020, 17:03:24 »
This poll is broken, because its about Medium Fire Lance members.... AND THERE IS NO GRIFFIN-1N LISTED !   :D


There are a lot of great options up there about the only ones I wouldn't consider are the Locust any anything 4/6/0 for speed/size reasons.
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #50 on: 18 April 2020, 21:23:09 »
I guess I'm in the minority on this poll .

The question was which mech to pick for a MEDIUM fire lance .

I chose the Whitworth , and my second choice might be the
Catapult CPLT-A1 .

IMHO-the majority of the other choices just don't have enough ammo
to provide fire support for long enough to fill that roll.
Those that do either lack good secondary weapons , adequate heat sinks,
or have one shot rear armor .
A fight with other mechs in this weight class means that a lot of medium
lasers are gonna be used for back shots .
I only chose the Whitworth over the Catapult because weather you balance
games by BV or tonnage-the CPLT costs a LOT more  .

The Whitworth is far from perfect ,but it's low BV in a balanced game can
make it well worth it to field.

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #51 on: 19 April 2020, 06:34:31 »
If we add that we should probably add the vindicator as well.

I may (on occasion) have been known to run a lance consisting of a pair of Catapult's and a pair of Vindicators.

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #52 on: 19 April 2020, 06:54:46 »
That's a solid lance, but not a "Medium Fire Lance", I think.

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #53 on: 19 April 2020, 07:43:56 »
That's a solid lance, but not a "Medium Fire Lance", I think.

Rounds off to an average mass of 55 tons. All units have LRM's, with half having dual large size racks, and the other half having smaller racks, but backed by PPC's.

Fits the requirements in my mind. And seems decidedly Capellan at that.

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #54 on: 19 April 2020, 07:48:22 »
100% Capellan, certainly.  A Warrior House might classify that as "Medium", but I think any line units would call it Heavy.

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #55 on: 19 April 2020, 07:50:09 »
Well, for me and how I was brought up in this game, anything past 200 tonnes is a heavy lance.  That is to say:
  • 0-135 Light Lance
  • 140-200 Medium Lance
  • 205-280 Heavy Lance
  • 285+ Assault Lance
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Ruger

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #56 on: 19 April 2020, 08:55:07 »
Well, for me and how I was brought up in this game, anything past 200 tonnes is a heavy lance.  That is to say:
  • 0-135 Light Lance
  • 140-200 Medium Lance
  • 205-280 Heavy Lance
  • 285+ Assault Lance

Of course, a 200 ton medium lance could consist of two Awesome's and two Flea's, and still meet the 200 ton limit. And to match with the theme of this thread, this same lance could still be considered a medium (direct) fire lance with 6 PPC's and 2 large lasers.

Ruger
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #57 on: 19 April 2020, 09:13:32 »
So my buildout would be:

Crusader CDR - 3D
Trenchbucket
Whitworth
Valkyrie

Trying to keep with just 2 LRM types.

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #58 on: 19 April 2020, 09:16:51 »
Well, for me and how I was brought up in this game, anything past 200 tonnes is a heavy lance.  That is to say:
  • 0-135 Light Lance
  • 140-200 Medium Lance
  • 205-280 Heavy Lance
  • 285+ Assault Lance
Three Centurions and a Griffin is a Heavy Lance to you?
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #59 on: 19 April 2020, 18:25:55 »
A Hunchie-4J fits into any weight class...

Just need to know how to work it, most people don't.

Just saying...

I'd use a Hunchie-4J, Thud-5D, Centurion-AH and a Valkyrie-QF in this lance. Let's see if you can see what I've done, eh?

TT
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #60 on: 19 April 2020, 18:42:29 »
A Hunchie-4J fits into any weight class...

Just need to know how to work it, most people don't.

Just saying...

I'd use a Hunchie-4J, Thud-5D, Centurion-AH and a Valkyrie-QF in this lance. Let's see if you can see what I've done, eh?

TT

Made a fire lance that’s deadly at any range to multiple enemy types, with long range fire support, self-provided close range bodyguarding and anti-infantry abilities? 50 LRM’s, two AC/20’s, 5 medium lasers and a flamer for anti-infantry work.

Ruger
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #61 on: 19 April 2020, 18:49:36 »
Thanks, how very Lyran of you to do so...

And it's a type of lance both sides can use, before the clans invaded...

TT
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #62 on: 19 April 2020, 20:14:40 »
Three Centurions and a Griffin is a Heavy Lance to you?

Its actually canon even if its not accurate.

The old "tonnage/lance" table that was quoted is like that across off of the brackets.

They tended to run very "light" on those charts.

To me a lance wouldn't be "heavy" till it was over 220 tons, but the old books had it at 205+
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Failure16

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #63 on: 20 April 2020, 20:08:30 »
Of course, a 200 ton medium lance could consist of two Awesome's and two Flea's, and still meet the 200 ton limit. And to match with the theme of this thread, this same lance could still be considered a medium (direct) fire lance with 6 PPC's and 2 large lasers.

Ruger

That's right. Part of the fun of the original Mercenary's Handbook was trying to come up with the zaniest combinations to fit in a given tonnage. Some people preferred to make lances closer in tonnage between individual machines (the common byline), whilst others had a belief that tossing in a Stalker or Atlas into a medium lance gave them an edge in a lance-on-lance fight. Others tried out the original standard lance configuration of a Heavy, two Mediums, and a Light. Good times...

Three Centurions and a Griffin is a Heavy Lance to you?

That's what I said. If that bothers you, perhaps you should have a chat with 1984-5 and the breakdowns of BattleMech weight classes--or even why they had to be broken down by weight class at all.
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #64 on: 20 April 2020, 21:18:43 »
A fun Medium Fire Lance under the 220 ton standard is 3 Whitworths and a King Crab.  Yes, send your light Hunter-Killers over that hill to deal with the Medium Fire Lance on the other side... >:D
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #65 on: 20 April 2020, 21:50:07 »
And then they skip past red alert and go straight to brown alert.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #66 on: 21 April 2020, 00:16:23 »
Dude, that sounds like a great formation to play, even without the weight class shenanigans! :thumbsup:
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #67 on: 21 April 2020, 13:40:51 »
A fun Medium Fire Lance under the 220 ton standard is 3 Whitworths and a King Crab.  Yes, send your light Hunter-Killers over that hill to deal with the Medium Fire Lance on the other side... >:D

Ha... just read this... you sly dawg you! I did that in a game last year... but went more Charger-1A9 and triple Whitworth-1's. All jumpy and enough bodyguard to protect my own arse!

TT
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #68 on: 21 April 2020, 18:51:30 »
but I think any line units would call it Heavy.

Agreed.
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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #69 on: 21 April 2020, 18:59:24 »
That's right. Part of the fun of the original Mercenary's Handbook was trying to come up with the zaniest combinations to fit in a given tonnage. Some people preferred to make lances closer in tonnage between individual machines (the common byline), whilst others had a belief that tossing in a Stalker or Atlas into a medium lance gave them an edge in a lance-on-lance fight. Others tried out the original standard lance configuration of a Heavy, two Mediums, and a Light. Good times...


A fun Medium Fire Lance under the 220 ton standard is 3 Whitworths and a King Crab.


This reminds me of a 200 v 200 fight we did back in the late 80's.


Friend =  Awesome-8Q,  Vindicator,  Whitworth,  Panther  (I think)

Me = Atlas  (Or maybe Alliance/Titan from BT Mag, some 100 ton beast),   Victor-9B,   2x  Mite  (10 Ton Ultra Lights from BT Mag)



It broke down into a duel of 80 tonners & the remaining Trios of 120 tons in their own fight.


I remember winning but don't recall how damaged everyone was.


None of the medium trio wanted to risk closing on the 100 ton beast while my Mites didn't have the armor to survive even a single hit really.
It was fun running them in at 15 MP to stab with the SL into the back of something & pray the arm gun didn't come around & connect.

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Ruger

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #70 on: 21 April 2020, 19:37:25 »
Ha... just read this... you sly dawg you! I did that in a game last year... but went more Charger-1A9 and triple Whitworth-1's. All jumpy and enough bodyguard to protect my own arse!

TT

I’ve always thought the Charger-1A9 had too many heat sinks and too little ammo.

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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #71 on: 21 April 2020, 21:49:45 »


This reminds me of a 200 v 200 fight we did back in the late 80's.


Friend =  Awesome-8Q,  Vindicator,  Whitworth,  Panther  (I think)

Me = Atlas  (Or maybe Alliance/Titan from BT Mag, some 100 ton beast),   Victor-9B,   2x  Mite  (10 Ton Ultra Lights from BT Mag)



It broke down into a duel of 80 tonners & the remaining Trios of 120 tons in their own fight.


I remember winning but don't recall how damaged everyone was.


None of the medium trio wanted to risk closing on the 100 ton beast while my Mites didn't have the armor to survive even a single hit really.
It was fun running them in at 15 MP to stab with the SL into the back of something & pray the arm gun didn't come around & connect.

That reminds me of a double-blind city fight game I was in where we were required to have four units, no infantry/BA, minimum two mechs.  BV limit was... something.

I wound up bringing a pair of Singers, a Typhoon Urban Assault Vehicle, and a Daishi S.  The look on my opponent's face when his Hatchetman came around a corner and found himself nose-to-nose with a Clan assault mech was hilarious.
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blackjack

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #72 on: 22 April 2020, 03:03:37 »
Might I ask that the Crusader-3L be added to the list? Is a solid performer better mobility & heat management than the 3R.
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Minemech

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #73 on: 22 April 2020, 08:13:48 »
Might I ask that the Crusader-3L be added to the list? Is a solid performer better mobility & heat management than the 3R.
It has been added.
« Last Edit: 22 April 2020, 10:37:15 by Minemech »

Calimehter

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #74 on: 22 April 2020, 08:45:57 »
I had to vote for the Catapult C1.  Its nearly ideal except for the small ammo bins, but even that isn't so bad.  If you've been firing off heavy LRM salvos all game and nobody is coming for you yet, you've probably had a good day.  >:D

Starfury

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #75 on: 29 April 2020, 18:44:33 »
Crusader, any variant, Dervish, Trebuchet, Thunderbolt  and Whitworth. The Bombadier is a horrible 65 ton version of the Archer. The mechs listed above give you a nice range of jump capacity, LRMs, and closer range weapons if you need a shorter range option. Ammo bombs don't bother me because  anything carrying ammo can become one. More ammo simply means more of a chance to go poof.

And if you want an off the wall suggestion, the LRM 10 version of the Gladiator.

Rainbow 6

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #76 on: 30 April 2020, 16:16:41 »
Although it's more of a direct fire lance for the DCMS in the 3rd SW i'd be tempted to run a Shadow Hawk-K and three Panthers.

Minemech

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Re: Medium Fire Lance poll
« Reply #77 on: 30 April 2020, 17:26:50 »
 It appears that the poll results can be broken down into three tiers. Readers should not confuse a lack of votes with disfavor, but rather see it more as a matter of priority.