Author Topic: Still usable?  (Read 4351 times)

R.Tempest

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Still usable?
« on: 09 December 2018, 23:17:25 »
 Finding Cache's from previous eras has always been a part of the storylines in the BT universe. Say it is 3025 era and you've found a pre-exodus cache - Mechs, Aerospace fighters vehicles, personal weapons. Would the ammunition still be safe to use after 300 years or so?

CranstonSnord

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #1 on: 09 December 2018, 23:42:11 »
Gauss slugs, probably. Anything with propellant, no.

Sartris

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #2 on: 09 December 2018, 23:43:16 »
chemicals in the BTU degrade at the speed of plot.

that said, i wouldn't attempt to use ammo or rations from the 2700s

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #3 on: 10 December 2018, 00:03:35 »
chemicals in the BTU degrade at the speed of plot.

that said, i wouldn't attempt to use ammo or rations from the 2700s

This very much. It seems that caches are the very epitome of Ragnarok-Proofing. IINM, back in the extremely early fluff, the Successor states were salvaging things from caches that you'd think were unlikely to survive going on three hundred years of being stored in a hole (albeit a climate-controlled one) and forgotten about, including uniform items and delicate electronics.

Valkerie

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #4 on: 10 December 2018, 00:12:47 »
This very much. It seems that caches are the very epitome of Ragnarok-Proofing. IINM, back in the extremely early fluff, the Successor states were salvaging things from caches that you'd think were unlikely to survive going on three hundred years of being stored in a hole (albeit a climate-controlled one) and forgotten about, including uniform items and delicate electronics.
Essentially a Star League stasis chamber for wartime supplies?  As silly as it sounds, that's how I've always pictured it.  Otherwise I wouldn't touch the ammo with a ten foot pole. 

And I'm not strong on Clan history, but did they not have something similar to the Star League caches?
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #5 on: 10 December 2018, 00:20:15 »
Yeah, the Brian Caches, most of which they made themselves (compared to the IS discovering lost ones)
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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #6 on: 10 December 2018, 00:23:43 »
Essentially a Star League stasis chamber for wartime supplies?  As silly as it sounds, that's how I've always pictured it.  Otherwise I wouldn't touch the ammo with a ten foot pole. 

And I'm not strong on Clan history, but did they not have something similar to the Star League caches?
The difference is those Clan caches, those lovingly detailed caches built to Exodus SLDF specs, which individual clans would still occasionally trial over (See: Speed of Plot or GM Fiat) are still manned faculties. Manned by underfed lower caste personnel, mind you but manned none the less.
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The_Caveman

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #7 on: 10 December 2018, 01:13:46 »
I assume most of that stuff is stored in vacuum or inert gas environments for fire protection anyway. As long as it's sealed and stayed temperature-stable, it should be fine.

FWIW there are reports of people eating mammoth meat straight from the Siberian permafrost. Supposedly tasted bad, but didn't kill anyone.

EDIT: The major problem with the longevity of modern ammunition is degradation of the primers. If BT ammo is electrically or laser primed, that isn't a concern. Corrosion of the casings would be another problem, but is fairly easy to control. Just keep oxygen and moisture away from it.
« Last Edit: 10 December 2018, 01:18:49 by The_Caveman »
Half the fun of BattleTech is the mental gymnastics required to scientifically rationalize design choices made decades ago entirely based on the Rule of Cool.

The other half is a first-turn AC/2 shot TAC to your gyro that causes your Atlas to fall and smash its own cockpit... wait, I said fun didn't I?

Colt Ward

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #8 on: 10 December 2018, 11:18:38 »
The difference is those Clan caches, those lovingly detailed caches built to Exodus SLDF specs, which individual clans would still occasionally trial over (See: Speed of Plot or GM Fiat) are still manned faculties. Manned by underfed lower caste personnel, mind you but manned none the less.

No, the Brian Caches were for the most part SLDF built . . . maybe forgotten about by warlords when the Exodus Civil War came about, and discovered after the Clans hit the Exodus worlds 20 years later.  They may trial for what gets found (again Wolverines) but those Brian Caches were not manned when they were found.

As for SLDF stuff . . .

Yeah, the primer always seems to be the weak point in ammo longevity.  Fuel, depending on what it was, would also have degraded and so would other POL which means for vehicles it can be a problem- they SHOULD be stored drained but ready to be refilled with grease/lube.  Like The_Caveman said, you can store it in a plastic cocoon filled with intert gas (nitrogen) and keep the temp stable then stuff can last a long time as long as it would not be outgassing as it decays.
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Kovax

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #9 on: 10 December 2018, 11:43:37 »
Some things can keep almost forever, others decay rapidly.  Archaeologists have opened jars of honey from ancient Egyptian tombs, 4000+ years old, and the honey was still good.

The point is, those SL caches were intended for long-term storage, with advanced technology and virtually unlimited amounts of money to prevent degradation of the contents over years or decades (they probably weren't expecting centuries, but the same principles still apply).  I would assume that MOST of it is either usable, or can be made usable in a relatively short timeframe.  How much of that is immediately useful, requires some reassembly and/or restoration of liquids and lubricants before use, or has suffered irreparable damage through failure/leakage of the storage systems over time, is up to the GM.  Then you have the daily routine and unpreserved equipment of the cache facility itself (uniforms, tools, etc.), which have probably suffered badly or completely disintegrated.

I'd still be very wary of anything intended to be edible, and EXTREMELY cautious (don't even stare at it too hard) with ammo until it's been carefully and thoroughly tested to be safe or neutralized.

Col Toda

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #10 on: 10 December 2018, 12:09:31 »
To last centuries . Propellent and explosive empty casings would be there and tanks and bins of hyper stable or stabilized precurser chemicals are there . Cache found the equivalent of an automated loading bench mix the stable precursor into volitile propellent and explosive and assembles the shells . Most ammo is good for 3 years today . So futuristic ammo maybe double that . So long as the the chemicals are in hyper stable precursors the clock should not be counting down .

Colt Ward

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #11 on: 10 December 2018, 12:30:18 »
SLDF Uniforms seem to be pretty rugged and last for a while . . . for one thing, think of the cooling suit Rose ended up with in ComStar.  IIRC it was a SLDF left over and it was functional enough to let him run about on a world.  IIRC the 3030s where Lyran prospectors found a water-logged cache still had cases of uniforms & pistols that were functional even if the couple of mechs had flooded out and the inside of the cache was a humid environment.

Honestly, think somewhere between the Star Gate teams finding Ancient ships like the Orion and ending up with a fixer upper like Destiny.  Inert gas filled storage rooms can be fun . . . did you flip the proper switch to vent it?  or did you try to just open it and walk in . . . to pass out from lack of O2?

Also one thing the OP forgot . . . we know the Clans themselves built some caches in the Periphery going into Op Revival.  At least a star sized base with the support for that star and the space for the techs/laborers that would be attached to that star.  The mechs were secondline- Vapor Eagle, Conjurer, Peregrine, Vixen and probably another light.  The facility also had its own HPG, automated to give a signal out to the Vipers of when it was opened.  I imagine the Ravens would have been searching for any they could find in the OA's area . . . and maybe the Shark/Foxes cracked any they knew of open after the Reavings.
Colt Ward
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Dragon Cat

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #12 on: 10 December 2018, 14:58:14 »
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My three main Alternate Timeline with Thanks fan-fiction threads are in the links below. I'm always open to suggestions or additions to be incorporated so if you feel you wish to add something feel free. There's non-canon units, equipment, people, events, erm... Solar Systems spread throughout so please enjoy

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,52013.0.html - Part 2

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,79196.0.html - Part 3

R.Tempest

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #13 on: 10 December 2018, 22:48:15 »
Gauss slugs, probably. Anything with propellant, no.
Gauss slugs Are basically just oversized cannonballs so sure.
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Some things can keep almost forever, others decay rapidly.  Archaeologists have opened jars of honey from ancient Egyptian tombs, 4000+ years old, and the honey was still good.
Honey is basically sterile, so sure.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #14 on: 10 December 2018, 23:51:32 »
FWIW there are reports of people eating mammoth meat straight from the Siberian permafrost. Supposedly tasted bad, but didn't kill anyone.

As far as I'm aware, none of these stories have ever actually been confirmed: it's always someone talking about an unnamed person who did it at some point in the past.  Given how rapidly mammoth carcasses spoil when thawed in documented events, it seems unlikely that anyone actually did manage to eat a mammoth steak that way.

That being said, the Star League's storage systems are shown to be ridiculously effective and anything that's still safely sealed up in a Star League cache is probably still perfectly fine, whether it's a Battlemech, a ton of LRM ammo, or a crate of rations.
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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #15 on: 11 December 2018, 00:05:00 »
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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Caedis Animus

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #16 on: 11 December 2018, 00:08:47 »
That being said, the Star League's storage systems are shown to be ridiculously effective and anything that's still safely sealed up in a Star League cache is probably still perfectly fine, whether it's a Battlemech, a ton of LRM ammo, or a crate of rations.
The first and second always bothered me. I can kind of understand a crate of freeze-dried nutrient paste staying good for a surprisingly long time, even if you'd never want to actually eat it; But a Battlemech or LRM ammo being usable right out of the box? After hundreds of years? Without even being cleaned first? Come on. That Battlemech should have more dust in it than transceivers. I mean, maybe on a space station or in an asteroid field or something similarly inhospitable, but on a swamp world or something, something in that facility should have leaked by now.

SteelRaven

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #17 on: 11 December 2018, 00:42:06 »
Heart of Dixie is a good example that not all Castle Brians are not perfectly preserved (nor should be) You might find a air tight case of shrink wrapped laser pistols but something like a battlemech may be more of a salvage job depending on the conditions of the bunker as a whole. I do like The_Caveman's idea that maybe the SLDF vacuum in oxygen out of the bunker before lock down or use a inert gas for fire protection reasons or whatever because why not, the SLDF did weird stuff.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #18 on: 11 December 2018, 01:48:23 »
I did say "safely sealed" for a reason.  Heart of Dixie firmly established that those seals don't last forever.
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The_Caveman

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #19 on: 11 December 2018, 04:09:52 »
The first and second always bothered me. I can kind of understand a crate of freeze-dried nutrient paste staying good for a surprisingly long time, even if you'd never want to actually eat it; But a Battlemech or LRM ammo being usable right out of the box? After hundreds of years? Without even being cleaned first? Come on. That Battlemech should have more dust in it than transceivers. I mean, maybe on a space station or in an asteroid field or something similarly inhospitable, but on a swamp world or something, something in that facility should have leaked by now.

Long-term storage generally implies all lubricants and fuels removed along with any other volatiles and corrosive components like batteries. Aside from that they probably packed everything in futuristic Cosmoline and stored it in a nitrogen or argon atmosphere. There is no way you could walk into a long-lost bunker, fire up a 'Mech and walk out with it--at least not if you wanted to get very far.

There's a good chance many components would be disassembled for storage. It'd be days or even weeks of work for a tech crew to put a 'Mech into service that had been stored for the long haul. Assuming that all the parts were still there.

Food, at least, is most likely vacuum-packed and thoroughly gamma-sterilized. As long as it can be kept safe from oxygen and heat, and moisture doesn't get in or out, it should last essentially forever.

Rocket propellants, IDK. I would tend to assume missiles are solid fuel, but they could just as easily be liquid. Some liquid fuels store better than others. Kerosene and other petroleum products would degrade pretty quickly, some substances like nitric acid should last forever in sealed tanks. Solid fuels are usually a mix of an insensitive solid oxidizer and powdered metal in a plastic or rubber binder. The binder is the most likely failure point, it would dry out and crack if exposed to the elements. If the rounds are factory-sealed so that moisture can't penetrate, there is a good chance they would still be viable decades or centuries later.

Original factory Gyrojet ammunition (what little remains) has become incredibly unreliable after just 50 years, but 1960s Gyrojet cartridges were also not designed with long-term storage in mind. I don't think the propellant is in any way protected from air or moisture.

Explosives should still work (as evidenced by the handful of unexploded WWI shells and bombs that turn up in farmers' fields every year) but anything that uses chemical detonators/primers is likely unstable enough to be highly dangerous. It wouldn't surprise me if SLDF Royal divisions had ammo that was primed with some technology that didn't become unstable over time--but it also wouldn't surprise me if the quartermasters bought their replacements from Quikscell once in a while.

The real reason you'd want SLDF missile ammunition is to salvage the guidance packages. The propellants and warheads could be disposed of easily enough, but LosTech seekers are valuable (old sourcebooks indicated that even regular SLDF missile ammo was better than 3025 production, nevermind the stuff with Artemis or Streak capability, but AFAIK no rules have ever been published to reflect its superior quality).
Half the fun of BattleTech is the mental gymnastics required to scientifically rationalize design choices made decades ago entirely based on the Rule of Cool.

The other half is a first-turn AC/2 shot TAC to your gyro that causes your Atlas to fall and smash its own cockpit... wait, I said fun didn't I?

Elmoth

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #20 on: 11 December 2018, 08:13:14 »
Quote
Original factory Gyrojet ammunition (what little remains) has become incredibly unreliable after just 50 years, but 1960s Gyrojet cartridges were also not designed with long-term storage in mind. I don't think the propellant is in any way protected from air or moisture.

Dunno if the SLDF had ideas about long terms storage for its ammo BEFORE they decided to leave the IS. I doubt it since I feel that decision is a willpower decision of Kerensky, not a long planned goal of the SLDF, so I don't know if this would hold in the 31st century. But then, everything can hold water in that universe :) I myself consider SLDF caches to be quite bad plot hooks (the classical buried pirate chest of stompy robots), and I would not have left those lying around in the IS if I were Kerensky, but hey, they are canon after all.

The_Caveman

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #21 on: 11 December 2018, 08:33:59 »
Dunno if the SLDF had ideas about long terms storage for its ammo BEFORE they decided to leave the IS. I doubt it since I feel that decision is a willpower decision of Kerensky, not a long planned goal of the SLDF, so I don't know if this would hold in the 31st century. But then, everything can hold water in that universe :) I myself consider SLDF caches to be quite bad plot hooks (the classical buried pirate chest of stompy robots), and I would not have left those lying around in the IS if I were Kerensky, but hey, they are canon after all.

With the way the Star League overbuilt everything to last (with the exception of its plans for continuity of government, ba-zing) I'd be really shocked if they manufactured supplies with a shelf life of only a few years.

Kerensky I don't think had a choice when it came to leaving stuff behind. It was only six months between the decision to leave and the fleet's first fateful jump and much of that time would have been spent just getting people where they needed to be. The SLDF was a ghost of what it had been after 20 years of chaos and war, many of those outposts would have barely had the manpower to keep the lights on, nevermind strip everything off the walls. Transport capacity would have been stretched just carrying the people and enough basic supplies, nevermind the contents of whole depots.

Of course by the same token, most of the really good SLDF gear should have been used up in the civil war and the remaining caches valuable primarily because they contain pristine Age of War-level tech that hadn't seen the wear and tear of 300 years of war. The only time anyone is supposed to have found a really big cache of the good stuff was the Dragoons and that turned out to be a lie for their cover story.

And hey, don't knock buried treasure as a plot hook. Treasure hunts have been a cornerstone of adventure stories going back at least as far as the Golden Fleece. Tropes stick around because they work.

The SLDF cache as a plot hook is one of the more brilliant points of early BT--because there are so many ways it can go so deliciously wrong. The heroes uncovering a DropShip full of double heat sinks is a little boring--until it turns out they were flawed prototypes filled with a hallucinogenic coolant that slowly outgasses into the ship. The brave adventurers fight their way though pirates and automated defense systems to recover a LosTech data core--but the data is corrupted leaving only tantalizing clues and the long-lost recipe for peanut butter ice cream. The pristine SLDF 'Mech is infected with an insidious computer virus planted by long-dead Amaris saboteurs.

The possibilities are endless!
« Last Edit: 11 December 2018, 08:41:25 by The_Caveman »
Half the fun of BattleTech is the mental gymnastics required to scientifically rationalize design choices made decades ago entirely based on the Rule of Cool.

The other half is a first-turn AC/2 shot TAC to your gyro that causes your Atlas to fall and smash its own cockpit... wait, I said fun didn't I?

Robroy

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #22 on: 11 December 2018, 09:22:18 »
Agian, that is if they find something. The SLDF did try to strip their bases and later Comstar made an effort to recover or destroy what they could find. I believe in the GDL novel where the find a cache, it mentions how many that are found are empty.

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Kovax

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #23 on: 11 December 2018, 10:23:37 »
My own thoughts on the subject of caches would be that many of them would have been built to hold equipment that was too valuable to throw away, but not good enough to use in front-line service.  The Royal units would practically ALL have been in active service, not storage.  Current SLDF models of the time, with advanced tech, would mostly have been used, not stored, except when there was a local surplus of a particular model.  The bulk of the equipment stored for potential future need would have been second-string or obsolete items, such as types which had either been sold to the surrounding House armies or decommissioned by the SLDF.  They would have put it in mothballs in case it was ever needed again, which means storage techniques intended for up to 50 years or so (with a reasonably chance that they'd survive far longer).  I'm reminded of how the Soviet Union packed hundreds of thousands of WWII German rifles in cosmoline, just in case they needed half a million more rifles in a hurry for some future war (they eventually sold most of them, more than 50 years later).

That means you'd be more likely to find a 3025 or primitive tech unit than a prime SLDF one, but that "intro tech" unit would be in far better repair than what most armies were using in 3025.  It might possibly incorporate somewhat more advanced targeting and control systems than what could still be produced in the later era, even if the weapons and heatsinks weren't anything out of the ordinary.  Food and ammo would typically have been stored in some form where it wouldn't degrade after only a few years, although some of it might have "issues" beyond the first half-century.  One would suspect than any explosive primers or other chemicals subject to degradation over time would have been separated (easier to replace the primer than to remake the entire round) or replaced with more survivable equivalents in MOST cases, but not all. Government purchasers have always been notorious for passing off sub-standard merchandise, in exchange for a suitable bribe, particularly in cases where the crime probably won't be detectable until long after the purchasing agent is dead or gone.  Basically, food should be tested before eating, and explosives should be handled and checked only by trained explosives experts aware of the dangers and proper handling procedures for something which MAY (or may not) be highly volatile (You rolled WHAT on that explosives handling check??!!!  …..for 30 ***TONS*** of SRM Streak ammo????).

Colt Ward

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #24 on: 11 December 2018, 10:40:50 »
I think the GDL line has to be taken with a grain of salt . . .

For example, tour the British Isles and you will tons of ruins of castles & towers . . . we can identify them as military buildings but can you tell the difference between one- by looking- that was built for the ruling family's political seat vs a nation-state's strategically important fortification?  or even better, between something early in the period that became superseded and a late period fortification?

So yeah, by 3SW Grayson would have heard of tons of Star League military ruins that contained nothing of value any longer.  Some were stripped as Kerensky left and abandoned.  Some were stripped by the House Lords in the build up to 1SW and abandoned.  Others were used until shifting borders no longer made them relevant, stripped and then abandoned.  So when a group of mercs are posted to a world . . . and as part of becoming familiar with their AO, they find some old Star League base ruins they are likely to survey the site before declaring it contained nothing of interest.  They never knew of the site before, but it was very likely never 'lost' except in commonly available records- the locals probably knew where it had been and maybe have known what it was at one time.

Finally . . . military bases, at least ones with US troops, always have something stashed away that is not on the books or got 'lost.'  I have heard stories of a deep bunker that had four . . . M48s?  Maybe Shermans I do not quite recall, but it was as one of the bases was down-sizing or being cleared after the Berlin wall fell.  The units in Europe was using M1s, but back when sometime some body put some spare tanks into storage . . . and forgot about them.  I knew some Desert Storm vets that claimed to have a few 55 gallon drums full of captured rifles & MGs buried in the desert . . . just in case.  Then there was the crated up Spitfires found in I think it was India a few years ago, someone had forgotten about them.  (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2239771/Dozens-WWII-spitfires-buried-jungle-Burma-flying-years.html)It seems that any time a unit is leaving a building folks 'find' all sorts of gear that was not on the unit books- sometimes its current generation, sometimes its 3 or 4 generations out of date.  The reasons can vary from 'CO does not trust this new-fangled junk,' 'Supply CO/NCO is a packrat, you can never have enough X,' 'someone was a scrounger and this was their stash,' 'one set for inspection & one set for the field,' and many more.  My section once found on the side of a training area road a camo net spreader bag . . . we opened it up, and it was the old aluminum poles & spreaders for the net.  We had the fiberglass ones which were the current version- even if they were old.  My section acquired a spare set of camo net poles that day . . .

Which is why I am so in favor now days for old SLDF caches, just like the hidden commo net in the BC story about a Gunslinger in a Thug, having a deep hidden basement with Age of War spares.  'Break Glass in case of War.'  As for size, remember Morrison's Extractors found a buried cache in the Periphery on the old Lyran/RWR border, which had Star League-era mechs & weaponry.  Eventually reaching two regiments in size with only a company in each regiment using SW-era tech, Morrison kept digging around where he found the first cache on a former Hegemony climate altered world.

One other type cache that does not get mentioned . . . possible RWR cache for the war to come (or post-Aramis rebellion) like the Germans did in WWII.  They keep producing but hiding stuff covertly from the Star League- helped out by the pass Cameron was giving Aramis.
Colt Ward
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Gravedigger

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #25 on: 11 December 2018, 10:52:11 »
Here's my thought on the matter, for what it is worth.
The Star League built some (not all) of these caches with long term storage in mind. That means that each thing in there is stored in whatever condition will give them longevity. That means that primers for shells are probably stored separately from the casings in different conditions, probably vacuum. Electronics are powered down and stored away in air-tight crates that have serial numbers on them and may not be readily apparent to someone without a manifest exactly what piece goes to what. A 'Mech's skeleton would be stored in some sort of preservative fluid, separate from the myomer bundles, separate from its armor, from its electronics, etc...

It's doubtful you'd walk into a SLDF cache and immediately find a fully functional BattleMech or vehicle, but what you'd find are all the pieces for those machines scattered through the cache in different places, waiting for a skilled quartermaster and engineer to figure out how it all gets back together. That's not to say that certain things wouldn't be usable after a few centuries like field rations. But a lot of stuff would be fine, just not in immediately usable condition.

As long as all the preservation equipment/liquid/vacuum chamber/etc haven't been tampered with or degraded.

Aaron "Gravedigger" Pollyea

Colt Ward

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #26 on: 11 December 2018, 11:20:55 »
You know . . . with Mechs being environmentally & vacuum sealed . . . I could see them being stored with inert gas filling the spaces inside the armor shell.
Colt Ward
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The_Caveman

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #27 on: 11 December 2018, 11:55:12 »
I don't think it'd be worth the effort to strip the armor and myomers, etc. from 'Mech chassis. Look at aircraft stored in boneyards. Usually the engines and any sensitive electronics are pulled and that's all--and the construction of a BattleMech makes pulling the fusion engine a much more complicated endeavour than a jet engine. I could see most weapons and their associated electronics being unmounted and boxed up. Maybe arms and heads removed from certain designs and placed in crates. I doubt there would be much total disassembly unless the machine was to be cannibalized for parts.

My headcanon on 'Mech cooling systems is that they already circulate pressurized inert gas through the chassis as the primary coolant--usually nitrogen. (Why else should a 'Mech care that its arm has been breached to vacuum?) Inerting the entire chassis for storage should be easy enough as long as you leave it intact. Storing the chassis at positive pressure also keeps dust and other contaminants from penetrating as long as the seals hold.
Half the fun of BattleTech is the mental gymnastics required to scientifically rationalize design choices made decades ago entirely based on the Rule of Cool.

The other half is a first-turn AC/2 shot TAC to your gyro that causes your Atlas to fall and smash its own cockpit... wait, I said fun didn't I?

Kovax

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #28 on: 11 December 2018, 12:10:51 »
Speaking of hidden caches, the local high school where I live did a major renovation a couple of years back, and discovered a walled-up room full of equipment from back when the school hosted its own wood shop and metal shop classes, before those classes were transferred to a county vocational school location.  We're talking about drill presses, lathes, welders, planers, metal brakes, and other sizable pieces of machinery, as well as hundreds of hand tools.  All of that was off the books and forgotten after only a few decades, even though most of the students who had used that stuff were still alive.

Supposedly, Alexander the Great had passed the shattered ruins of what had once been a large walled city, and made inquiries with the locals about it.  He was told that nobody knew the name of that city.  From the path which Alexander's army took, it was presumed by later historians that the city was the remains of Nineveh, the capital of the vast Assyrian Empire at the time of its demise only a couple hundred years earlier.....totally forgotten.  The site, across the river from the modern day Iraqi city of Mosul, was partially excavated over the past century and a half, but has more recently been used by rebels and terrorists as a camp, and several of the remaining stones above ground have been used as practice targets for mortar team.  The next generation of archaeologists to visit the site will need to deal with unexploded mortar rounds, along with all of the other risks.

After a couple of generations, the knowledge of a nearby SL cache would fade into legend, if not plainly visible.  If visible, it would inevitably be looted, at least at the surface level, before being ignored and all-but forgotten ("Yeah, I heard there's an old SL ruin there on the side of the mountain, but there's nothing left inside.").  A closer examination by a more professional team might uncover a lot more.

Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: Still usable?
« Reply #29 on: 11 December 2018, 12:30:49 »
It's neat to imagine ways how SLDF caches could survive centuries of neglect.

But I don't see why the SLDF would design caches that could survive centuries of neglect.  Surely long-term storage caches would have been designed with the intent that caretakers would be maintaining materiel and infrastructure.

Afterall, why would the SLDF be designing things with that kind of time span in mind when the Star League itself only lasted for 210 years.

You know what else only lasted for 210 years? The USA as of 1986, when much of the foundational lore was written.   I've always suspected that particular coincidence wasn't coincidence :D