Mech design decisions that make no sense

[Brakiel]

I want to say there was some fluff about that sort of thing but it never made it past lore.

Isn't there the Fast Reload quirk?

[TigerShark]

The Bombardier is basically an Archer variant, so I have to wonder why they just didn't make it an Archer variant.

God that 'Mech blows...
The Bombardier is such a head-scratcher. It's so close to being an awesome unit.

[SCC]

It's not a 'Mech but the SRM Carrier (Narc) probably counts, your going to want the target Narc'd before it encounters the SRM Carrier and it's not likely to be very intact after it encounters the carrier, Narc Beacon or not.

[grimlock1]

Isn't there the Fast Reload quirk?

Assuming fast reload quirk, an industrial mech to help, and an elite crew, reloading a single bin would be take 3 minutes, 18 turns.  So 6 minutes to top off the LRMS, 9 if the pilot wants the AMS too.

This based on Strat Ops pg 186 and  BMM pg 83

[Caedis Animus]

God that 'Mech blows...
The Bombardier is such a head-scratcher. It's so close to being an awesome unit.

Do you mean overall or variant-specific? Because the 14C is actually really nice, with the 14K being a close second.

First few suck in terms of ammo dependency despite a scarcity of spare funbins, yeah, but they at least hit the right mark twice in terms of usefulness. Even if the 14K is really freaking weird in terms of ammo placement. Hell, with as much ammo as the 14K has plus the MGs, it's almost as though the weapon is goading the user into packing a ton of inferno.

[TigerShark]

Do you mean overall or variant-specific? Because the 14C is actually really nice, with the 14K being a close second.

First few suck in terms of ammo dependency despite a scarcity of spare funbins, yeah, but they at least hit the right mark twice in terms of usefulness. Even if the 14K is really freaking weird in terms of ammo placement. Hell, with as much ammo as the 14K has plus the MGs, it's almost as though the weapon is goading the user into packing a ton of inferno.

Yeah, I should have been specific and said the -12D. I have a special hate for that machine.

[Weirdo]

It's not a 'Mech but the SRM Carrier (Narc) probably counts, your going to want the target Narc'd before it encounters the SRM Carrier and it's not likely to be very intact after it encounters the carrier, Narc Beacon or not.

Only if you're using the NARC to guide your own missiles and nobody else's.

[TigerShark]

Only if you're using the NARC to guide your own missiles and nobody else's.

True. A lot of these NARC units are designed to work in larger formations, i.e.: a Lance of NARC taggers with two Lances of fire support. Even if you kill one, whatever it tagged with a beacon is probably going to be hurting very soon.

[SCC]

Only if you're using the NARC to guide your own missiles and nobody else's.

I kind of figure there's not much left of the target after an SRM Carrier's done firing at it.

True. A lot of these NARC units are designed to work in larger formations, i.e.: a Lance of NARC taggers with two Lances of fire support. Even if you kill one, whatever it tagged with a beacon is probably going to be hurting very soon.

You don't exactly want one shot ambush predators for this roll.

[Weirdo]

I kind of figure there's not much left of the target after an SRM Carrier's done firing at it.

SRM Carriers are scary, but they're not THAT scary. There's plenty of things out there tough enough that they might try to take one for the team so nobody else has to. The question is if they're willing to do so if they know about the lingering effects.

After all, if it does survive, it's definitely worth pointing 10-11 LRM racks at it...

[Liam's Ghost]

Also there's nothing that says the SRMs and the Narc have to go to the same target.

Heck, I wouldn't even load narc-capable munitions into the SRM carrier. Either narc my target and then dump into someone else, or... ooh, load smoke SRMs, narc my target, then lay smoke EVERYWHERE.

Let my old model LRM carriers in the backfield and their narc equipped ammo sort it out.

[Greatclub]

Mangonel

So close. Just a little more ammo...

[Alexander Knight]

I'll be honest.  Any design that has a RAC/5 and one ton of ammo.

[deathfrombeyond]

Don’t know if this has been mentioned yet, but it makes no sense to me that all movement speeds are in arbitrarily set increments of 10.8 kph.

I mean, I get it from a game perspective that movement points have to be a multiple of some constant factor, I just don’t understand why 10.8 was chsen.

[SCC]

We get 10.8 from turn length and hex size, it's the result of performing a proper conversion between hexes per turn and Kph

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I'll be honest.  Any design that has a RAC/5 and one ton of ammo.

I know of one variant of the Hammerhands that's like that.  Struggling to think of any others.

[RifleMech]

Target
A target is defined as anything a unit may attack, whether
with a weapon or physically. This can be another enemy unit (a
friendly can never be the target of a direct attack, though it can
be damaged through the effects of another attack),

So can you target the enemy Infantry or Battle Armor that are swarming your friendly unit?
You're not targeting the friendly just the enemies on it.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Except that swarming infantry and BA can't be targeted.

[Weirdo]

Correct. Long story short, shooting them off isn't feasible. You need to either counterswarm, or have the swarmee do any one of the myriad and reasonably easy methods to shake them.

[Alexander Knight]

I know of one variant of the Hammerhands that's like that.  Struggling to think of any others.

Hermes II variant.  And I got an ONN Hammerhands variant to explicitly deal with the ammoless version.  :)

[Sharkapult]

At the risk of going too general, ANYTHING that brings an LRM-20 to the field without at least 9 shots is a product of the Good Idea Fairy.


Speaking of missiles, WTF is up with the Dire Wolf X?  ATM 6, streak 2, SRM 4 and LRM 15? The lasers run the gamut of pulse, ER and heavy flavors.  The Ultra and LB AC's are represented.  The only thing I can think of is this is a config designed by Jaguar or Falcon merchant, trying to one-up a Diamond Shark.

I'm pretty sure that Direwolf X was created to have one of each weapon system. It was used as an example in a rule book for resolving firing phases, I'm not sure if it was supposed to really be canon as a "usable" config.

[RifleMech]

Except that swarming infantry and BA can't be targeted.

Correct. Long story short, shooting them off isn't feasible. You need to either counterswarm, or have the swarmee do any one of the myriad and reasonably easy methods to shake them.

Thanks
Poor friendly. Hope they can get the swarmies off.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I'm pretty sure that Direwolf X was created to have one of each weapon system. It was used as an example in a rule book for resolving firing phases, I'm not sure if it was supposed to really be canon as a "usable" config.

Yeah, it was first used as an example for using different weapons in Total Warfare, then added to Record Sheets 3050 Upgrade unabridged without comment.

[Starfury]

The sad part about the 12D Bombardier is that it's easy to fix. Remove the anti-missile system and the SRM 4, add 2 more tons of LRM ammo to the left torso along with CASE, and put a medium laser in each arm.  You've doubled its ammo capacity, increased its short ranged firepower, and also secured it in case of field salvage/repair if the ammo goes up.  The SRM 4 and anti-missile system are superfluous, especially in a mech whose entire idea was based around fast fire support. 

[TigerShark]

The sad part about the 12D Bombardier is that it's easy to fix. Remove the anti-missile system and the SRM 4, add 2 more tons of LRM ammo to the left torso along with CASE, and put a medium laser in each arm.  You've doubled its ammo capacity, increased its short ranged firepower, and also secured it in case of field salvage/repair if the ammo goes up.  The SRM 4 and anti-missile system are superfluous, especially in a mech whose entire idea was based around fast fire support.

That's the thing: Just about ANY change is going to make more sense than what it has: LRM-15s w/Artemis, laser instead of the SRM, dumping the AMS for an ECM or Active Probe, etc. Just like the EXT-4D, the AMS is worthless on that thing and becomes a liability.

In regards to the Exterminator, the AMS should just be an ECM Suite. The base -4D model has no stealth properties, despite being described as a stealth unit. And it wasn't referring to the EXT-4C, since they were made the exact, same year. The AMS and missile rack is counter to the entire premise of the machine. "Let's try sneaking around, then creating a giant cloud of smoke and tracer fire to let you know where I'm at." Derp. The EXT-4Db is the only version that got it correct and that doesn't even have the Chameleon LPS or Null-Signature System. :-\

[dgorsman]

Let's run around with the electronic equivalent of a kreig light, instead.  Yup, much more stealthy.   :thumbsup:  Smoke and tracer fire only happens when being shot at (with missiles, no less), at which point it's safe to say you're no longer stealthy.

[Daryk]

I think you mean klieg light there...

[The_Caveman]

How about the anemic weapons load on what is ostensibly a headhunter? Too light to threaten a command 'Mech, horribly mismatched to taking out vehicles and tents. It's also too big, too heavily armored, and badly suited to its purported role.

The Exterminator is basically an ill-conceived Assassin competitor that costs too much.

[Daryk]

That just got me thinking... the Assassin almost makes sense when you throw the Exterminator's Star League tech at it...

[TigerShark]

Let's run around with the electronic equivalent of a kreig light, instead.  Yup, much more stealthy.   :thumbsup:  Smoke and tracer fire only happens when being shot at (with missiles, no less), at which point it's safe to say you're no longer stealthy.

The purpose of the 'Mech is assassination. Smoke/missiles should NEVER come in. And four medium lasers isn't going to kill, say, an Emperor or Pillager, which were the kings of the battlefield when the -4D debuted. We're talking 20 damage (23 with the small laser), max. The WVR-6R does that (5 + 12 = 17) and at 1/3 the cost.

If the EXT-4Db gets behind you, however, you can take 38 (41 w/small laser) damage. That's something to be afraid of.