Author Topic: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point  (Read 57889 times)

NeonKnight

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #930 on: 31 August 2024, 09:14:17 »
I think you both need to take a step back and chill.

I am chill - I know the Text does not make allow the transference of tone, but yes, I am quite chilled on this - trust me  :wink:
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Geg

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #931 on: 31 August 2024, 09:34:34 »
They are delaying the release of Force Manual Davion, which was not included in the stretch goals, because people added it to their Kickstarter and there was concern they would feel slighted if it released early.  The same logic applied to Encounters, and was confirmed by Loren (or maybe Cubby) in one of the Adepticon streams.  Regardless of how the language in Kickstarter was written, CGLs actions and communication have been pretty clear that both Encounters and FM:D are part of the Kickstarter.

My reading on the FM:D was that it was just a book, and I shouldn't add it to my Kickstarter, if I wanted to get it first, knowing there was a good chance the kickstarter was delayed.  It would have been great if that policy was clearly documented when I did my ordering, but you gotta plan for success and things do change.

ActionButler

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #932 on: 31 August 2024, 10:05:22 »
And I was just arguing in the mod chat that we didn’t need to intervene in this thread because everyone was largely following the rules. There’s probably a lesson for me to learn here.

Locked for review, until we can figure out who to warn and what to do with the rest of this mess.
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ActionButler

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #933 on: 03 September 2024, 08:06:31 »
**Update**

After discussing the current downward trajectory of this thread, the moderators and admins have agreed to keep the conversation locked until there is an update to the Kickstarter fulfillment process that is worth discussing. That might be later this month, it might be later this week, it might even be later this morning. Regardless of when that happens, we wanted to share this update with you so you have a better idea of what is happening regarding this discussion.

To be crystal clear, this thread is not locked in order to silence any dissent or concerns about the current Kickstarter situation. I cannot and will not speak for anyone other than myself, but I absolutely share many of the frustrations that have been voiced here. That being said, there are only so many times that the same frustrations can be voiced by the same people before a thread becomes a largely pointless catalog of complaints that nobody can do anything about. The last page of this thread, for example, is just pure speculation about whether or not certain products were part of the Kickstarter and who is to blame for unscheduled early releases. You're upset. We know you're upset. We know what you're upset about. Personally, I'm upset, too. The cold, hard fact of the matter is that nobody who frequents these forums can do anything about what we are upset about or share any additional insights, though. For those unaware, the moderators and admins here are unpaid volunteers and (to the best of my knowledge) none of us have any super secret means of communicating directly with CGL or QML. Some CGL employees do visit the forums, and I would like to think that they have noted our concerns, but I also choose to believe that they are too busy trying to sort all of this out to address every new "what's going on and where is my stuff" post.

As always, if you have questions or concerns, the Private Message feature is available for you to use to reach out to us.

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God and Davion

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #934 on: 11 September 2024, 06:22:21 »
 We are reopening the KS thread after a repeated series of incidents and posts that broke the rules. We are aware that the shipping of the KS is being slow and the delays are concerning. This is creating a lot of anxiety to backers and we understand this. If you look at the thread you will find criticism aimed towards CGL, the KS, QML and how the delays are handled. We don't have removed those posts because those are legitimate complaints.

  However, nobody here deserves to receive personal attacks, get stuck in circular arguments and even bringing incidents from other places in the forums. This is a different thing. It is not helpful and clutters the forums in general and this thread in particular. On top of it, it makes harder for forum members to receive proper updates and it is detrimental to the community. This is why we have locked the thread. Please, cool down and follow the rules.
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Prometheum5

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #935 on: 11 September 2024, 07:41:50 »
Why isn't there any official oversight or consistent line of communication between the Official Battletech Forums and CGL staff? It's their site and community, and there continues to be the mentioned legitimate concerns raised here.

Syzyx

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #936 on: 11 September 2024, 09:46:18 »
Moderators: I checked the rules and did not see anything that would indicate this would be against them. I fully accept I may have missed something and if so please strike this post.

Why isn't there any official oversight or consistent line of communication between the Official Battletech Forums and CGL staff? It's their site and community, and there continues to be the mentioned legitimate concerns raised here.

So I found this to be a valid question and went digging into it via comparison to other companies. It is not my intention to present an answer to the above, since I do not know anywhere near enough about CGL's internal operations, but rather to provide comparative information. For reference I used Zoominfo and RocketReach for the below information. I tried using Dun & Bradstreet as a better respected source but only one of the companies got a meaningful profile there.

I chose the below companies based upon brand recognition with my local crowd.

Catalyst Game Labs - Employees: 7  Yearly Revenue: $5.3M  Official Forum?: Yes
Games Workshop - Employees: 2,700  Yearly Revenue: $623.4M  Official Forum?: No
Reaper Miniatures - Employees: 23  Yearly Revenue: less than $5M  Official Forum?: Yes
Mantic Games - Employees: 29  Yearly Revenue: $5.9M Official Forum?: No

So just looking at the data above I think it is noteworthy that the monster of the industry cannot be bothered to have official forums. I feel this is an indicator of the level of commitment and expense such a resource requires.

The other company that maintains an official forum does so in a manner very similar to CGL, moderated on a volunteer basis though using a different organizational model.

The amount of time needed to keep tabs on all the various online communication channels is at least one full-time job and possibly more. This inclines me to believe that using volunteer labor for such things is a prudent cost-reduction measure and also gives community involvement benefit for the company's reputation.

Using Glassdoor.com and Salary.com for reference I found that the average salary for an online community manager in the US is about $40k per year. I do not know the exact employment laws in Washington State, but I can say from experience with my own (failed) efforts at running a business in New York State that the additional costs of having employees can easily double that amount in taxes and benefits. This does not take into account office or equipment costs, which I believe would be relevant to such a position.

Comparing that to the revenues and employee numbers above, and taking into account that games industries tend to have an 80%/20% operating costs to profit revenue division, that appears to leave CGL in a pretty enviable position financially. It would seem that CGL has the resources to begin expanding their employee pool but I would note that they most likely have a great deal more need for administrators and developers than community engagement officers.

I believe it is also very salient to recognize that Kickstarter operations are anomalous to standard business operations and are basically extended one-off occurrences of increased activity. I do not believe that repeated Kickstarters are a long-term successful business model.

Overall, my personal takeaway from this is that CGL is doing an acceptable, if not exceptional, job of communication based upon their current situation. I believe that they are in position to, and certainly should, add to their staff overall which may alleviate some of the hat-swapping that I believe must be happening behind the scenes and provide greater breathing room for more consistent engagement with the community during crunch times like the various Kickstarters.
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Youngblood

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #937 on: 11 September 2024, 09:54:23 »
Does anyone in the know have a good breakdown of exactly which communications from CGL, BackerKit, & QML were which, and which timeframe they were/are supposed to be sent?

There's been things like the confirmation of add-ons notification, the extra shipping cost notification, the address confirmation notification, etc.

Gotthammer

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #938 on: 11 September 2024, 10:10:49 »
Overall, my personal takeaway from this is that CGL is doing an acceptable, if not exceptional, job of communication based upon their current situation. I believe that they are in position to, and certainly should, add to their staff overall which may alleviate some of the hat-swapping that I believe must be happening behind the scenes and provide greater breathing room for more consistent engagement with the community during crunch times like the various Kickstarters.

The risks section says they "hired a Community and Marketing Specialist to increase the quality of our communications". I am of the opinion that with how abysmal coms have been they should be asking for a refund.

Teejay75

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #939 on: 11 September 2024, 10:30:26 »
I chose the below companies based upon brand recognition with my local crowd.

Catalyst Game Labs - Employees: 7  Yearly Revenue: $5.3M  Official Forum?: Yes
Games Workshop - Employees: 2,700  Yearly Revenue: $623.4M  Official Forum?: No
Reaper Miniatures - Employees: 23  Yearly Revenue: less than $5M  Official Forum?: Yes
Mantic Games - Employees: 29  Yearly Revenue: $5.9M Official Forum?: No

Wow! I know that CGL has always been touted at the "little company that could" but I didn't know that they only had seven employees. That's eye opening that they could pull off two big Kickstarter campaigns like they have.

The risks section says they "hired a Community and Marketing Specialist to increase the quality of our communications". I am of the opinion that with how abysmal coms have been they should be asking for a refund.
I could be mistaken but I was under the impression that that would be Rem. She's referred to her own company in the past so I assumed that she was doing contracted work for CGL rather than being a CGL employee. As a contractor myself, I can understand the benefits that contracting versus hiring FTE's can have for a company. Less benefits to pay for, less workman's comp insurance, just to name a couple. I truly think Rem is a sweetheart and that CGL is doing the best that they can. I was surprised by the number of employees that CGL has. Again, it's amazing that a company that small has been able to deliver on two KS campaigns of this magnitude, and yes, I realize while saying "delivered", not everyone has gotten their loot, myself being one of them, but we will. It may take a little longer than we like, but it is coming. I'm also glad that they announced that they'll be moving away from the bigger KS campaigns as a business strategy. The staggered releases that were leaked at the last KerenskyCon seem to be a much better strategy for more long term growth of the company and will hopefully improve the perception of the company in the eyes of some of the more impatient backers. Of course, that's just my two cents. Blessings of Kerensky upon you all!

Ghaz

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #940 on: 11 September 2024, 11:09:27 »
Games Workshop - Employees: 2,700  Yearly Revenue: $623.4M  Official Forum?: No

GW had an official forum at one time.  It quickly earned the nickname of "The Eye of Terror" and was closed after less than a year IIRC.

SteelRaven

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #941 on: 11 September 2024, 11:16:44 »
GW had an official forum at one time.  It quickly earned the nickname of "The Eye of Terror" and was closed after less than a year IIRC.

There is a reason I avoid most game sites and groups, there are some fandoms that have me avoid IP's all together.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #942 on: 11 September 2024, 14:34:30 »
If you don't have aggressive forum modifications right out of the gate, your forum is going to be a toxic cesspool.
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Ghaz

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #943 on: 11 September 2024, 14:41:33 »
The problem was everyone wanted to use the forum to complain about GW's prices.  Guess what subject was off-topic and not allowed on their forum?...  :shocked:

DarkSpade

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #944 on: 11 September 2024, 17:10:06 »
Purely fan run or not, Battletech still has one of the best run gaming forums I've ever participated in.  Only other one that ever came close was Heroscape's.
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RanFelsnerAFFS

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #945 on: 11 September 2024, 22:21:59 »
By the way. Regarding fiction rewards from the KS....

Did we get any word yet on the "Tales of the Bounty Hunter" and the "Eclipse" audio book, that were supposed to be distributed to backers at the end of the campaign?

I can't remember any update on these items.

Aresneo

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #946 on: 11 September 2024, 23:29:41 »
By the way. Regarding fiction rewards from the KS....

Did we get any word yet on the "Tales of the Bounty Hunter" and the "Eclipse" audio book, that were supposed to be distributed to backers at the end of the campaign?

I can't remember any update on these items.
Tales of the Bounty Hunter is expected to go out around the end of the month, the Audio books are being held up by the technical limits of Backerkit so they are trying to figure out the best way to send them out.

Gotthammer

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #947 on: 12 September 2024, 05:22:17 »
I could be mistaken but I was under the impression that that would be Rem.

If that is the case then she is clearly not being given the time or tools to do her job (I thought it was Kyle or Tyler or whoever Rem references as being the KS answer person). Because Rem has said on several occasions that she doesn't have / hasn't been given any updated info. Which when it should be as simple as emailing QML "what's the eta for stock to the EU/Asia/Au hub(s)?" and putting that in an update, it is frustrating.

Because using KS puts them in one of two positions. Either it's a pre-order, in which case keeping your customers appraised of the expected delivery date is a bare minimum requirement. Otherwise we are investors, and you can't just tell investors "soon" or ignore them when they want to know how the project is going and expect more money later.

As said earlier by another poster, a KS of this size is a full time job, and it doesn't feel like they are really treating it as such, nor respecting what the people giving them money actually want (clear information and dates). It's a bad look. Not the worst campaign I've ever backed, but certainly one of the most frustrating.

Catfur

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #948 on: 12 September 2024, 23:03:07 »
Otherwise we are investors, and you can't just tell investors "soon" or ignore them when they want to know how the project is going and expect more money later.

That's pretty much exactly how major corporations work with their investors, though (not saying CGL ought to do this).

Four times a year they tell you, the company owner, how much profit they made. And once a year, they go into slightly more detail about income, profit, loss, etc...

Want to know whether product line 'x' made money? WHOA buddy, what do you think you do, own us (Ha!)?

Oh, and once a year you can also vote who runs the company you own, but only from a list conveniently selected for you by your employees.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #949 on: 12 September 2024, 23:52:53 »
I don't think anything would ruin Battletech faster than Catalyst becoming a publicly traded company.  Not that that's likely to happen ever.
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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #950 on: 13 September 2024, 01:00:20 »
That's pretty much exactly how major corporations work with their investors, though (not saying CGL ought to do this).

Four times a year they tell you, the company owner, how much profit they made. And once a year, they go into slightly more detail about income, profit, loss, etc...

Want to know whether product line 'x' made money? WHOA buddy, what do you think you do, own us (Ha!)?

Oh, and once a year you can also vote who runs the company you own, but only from a list conveniently selected for you by your employees.

A guy I used to work with in a company with a stock purchase program attended the shareholder's meeting one time, you practically don't get any kind of say unless you're a major shareholder, and they've already agreed on how the votes are going to go.  Perhaps unsurprisingly it's not really like the scenes you see on TV.
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HeavyArmorMecha

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #951 on: 13 September 2024, 01:05:34 »
IWM had beaten CGL in shipping speed...

We, a group of players in the Periphery that is called Asia, just received notice that the stuff we ordered together (to save shipping) had just arrived at our customs...... That took like what? less than 2 weeks?

NeonKnight

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #952 on: 13 September 2024, 07:38:30 »
IWM had beaten CGL in shipping speed...

We, a group of players in the Periphery that is called Asia, just received notice that the stuff we ordered together (to save shipping) had just arrived at our customs...... That took like what? less than 2 weeks?

Yep - I had a wayward order from IWM a few years back make a detour to Cambodia. You can read all about it's big voyage here: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=61457
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ActionButler

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #953 on: 13 September 2024, 11:57:43 »
**Mod Notice**

Several posts have been removed due to accidentally building a roller coaster of "Yes they do. Oh wait, no they don't."

I'm asking as nicely as I possibly can, guys, do not post speculation or rumors. Just don't. They aren't going to help anyone and they aren't going to get the wheels moving any faster. I realize that you are frustrated and that you want answers. I would love nothing more than for you to have the answers you need. This thread absolutely cannot become a "well I heard from so-and-so that...", though. That's just going to muddy the waters and lead to more disappointment.
« Last Edit: 13 September 2024, 12:06:15 by ActionButler »
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VectorStrike

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #954 on: 13 September 2024, 15:38:11 »
What makes me dumbstruck the most is how in hell there are product shortages when a KS gives you the exact number of people and the products they bought! There's absolutely no reason for CGL to not have ordered the production of the exactly demanded quantities. The latest info was that Arano coins shortage was causing some hold up. But they knew how many Arano coins should have been made to fulfill the KS demand. What gives?

The risks section says they "hired a Community and Marketing Specialist to increase the quality of our communications". I am of the opinion that with how abysmal coms have been they should be asking for a refund.

Heh, good one!
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #955 on: 13 September 2024, 15:53:28 »
One of the truisms of international shipping is that the amount you order is never the same as the amount you receive.
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Maingunnery

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #956 on: 13 September 2024, 17:16:19 »
One of the truisms of international shipping is that the amount you order is never the same as the amount you receive.
Yes it is like army logistics....
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shivanwurm

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #957 on: 13 September 2024, 17:35:41 »
QML posted that a batch of 250ish shortage pledges are being prepared now. Those were being help up by urbie company boxes.

The main shortage is still ongoing, that is the Arano coin and 10-12 clan dice.


Damn my dice ocd!

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #958 on: 13 September 2024, 18:32:35 »
Yes it is like army logistics....

Didn't the people of Valley Forge, PA just get a crate of muskets addressed to "His Excellency, Geo. Washington, Lieutenant-General"?  :laugh:

Geg

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Re: Mercenaries Kickstarter Discussion 7: Inbound From Jump Point
« Reply #959 on: 13 September 2024, 18:53:26 »
I used the form on the QML site to ask what was holding up my order.  It's:
  • Dice #54: Laser Effect-Clan Snow Raven
  • Dice #41: Laser Effect-Clan Jade Falcon

I am disappointed this information wasn't shared weeks ago, so I would have spared myself will they / won't they ship my stuff anxiety.