Author Topic: Without Question  (Read 4321 times)

Swankmotron

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Re: Without Question
« Reply #30 on: 01 June 2024, 20:55:25 »
I got an email Wednesday when I was deep into it that there was an updated version, what changed, precisely?  I really enjoyed it, by and large.  These are the Falcons I can come the closest to getting behind.  But I did notice some things that could have been typos that were kind of immersion breaking, where I'd have to stop and reread a paragraph or page trying to parse it.  Wasn't sure if I was just missing something, but that may be what was changed.


[spoiler]One thing that surely wasn't a typo was Jiyi calling Malthus a fascist in their final duel.  That struck me as very strange.  I mean, the Clans as a whole aren't much for pre-Star League history, but even assuming Jiyi is an erudite and well-read clanner (entirely likely), fascist just seems like a weird and irrelevant term of abuse for him to use.  I mean, the clans all have some fascist elements, but that's not really what makes the Mongols stand out from Jiyi's Falcons.  It *did* immediately put me in mind of the "Everyone I don't like is Hitler" meme, but...a clan Khan seeming to reference a 21st century meme is why it broke immersion for me.
[/spoiler]

They added a couple of things like a map, acknowledgements, a dedication, my about the author, AND fixed a whole bunch of typos. So, the updated versions are just a bit cleaner.

As for your other question: [spoiler]I feel like fascism is a word and concept that originated in the 1920s and has been in use to mean, " a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition" and has completely worked its way into our language completely and wholly and people understand what it means. Based on that definition, I felt Malvina fit that to a tee. There are words that I always blink at, too, though. Like "Okay" showing up in my fantasy stories, since the etymology of okay dates it back to a 19th century American political presidential campaign attack. Why would they use that in a fantasy story? But in BattleTech, the history of the word is baked into our language and culture today. No one seems to ask that question about why the Marians would be like, "You know, the Romans, a beyond ancient Terran civilization, are great enough to emulate." It seems as historical as the word fascism. So, I understand completely that there is something that feels too modern about it to some folks because it happens to be en vogue to say it about folks, but to the strict definition of the word as we've been using it around the world for the last hundred years, it was completely appropriate. So...  I get where you're coming from, but it also felt like... the right word definitionally.[/spoiler]

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Without Question
« Reply #31 on: 01 June 2024, 22:26:36 »
[spoiler]Fair enough.  It probably doesn't help that I've studied a fair bit of history and economics, so I was thinking about, for example, that fascists tends to allow private ownership of corporations as long as they work with the government, where the Mongols were much more about the state ownership of means of production.  Given that fascists are often contrasted with communists, it very much felt like the Mongols came down on the opposite side of that line, whereas Jiyi's loosening up of civilian relations might paradoxically move him closer to the fascist side of that spectrum, if significant private ownership becomes a thing.  But now I'm getting super-technical, and Jiyi yelling "Communist!" would have seemed just as out of place.  Good call on the Marians.  I'm probably biased there, given that I've studied the Romans a fair bit and like seeing spiritual heirs of theirs in BT, even if I'd rather not live there unless, maybe, if I could be a patrician.


No, the other thing that made me blink, as you say, was more to do with some of the pronoun usage.  Now, I totally get singular "they" when, for example, confronting an enemy mech whose pilot you don't have time to stop and quiz on gender identity.  But for example there's one point, in the Opera scene, where it says
"The lights dimmed, and a lone figure walked out onto the stage.
A spotlight illuminated them.
Of Course.
It was Jiyi Chistu, dressed in his new uniform..."
Emphasis mine.  That brought me up short, thinking "Wait, I thought he was alone.  Did I miss something?"  went back to the page before, checked, no, but he's always he elsewhere.  I was thinking maybe it was a typo, but , well, you know better than I that he and they are sometimes used for the same person.  Likewise Khodaverdi seems to change from she to he in different chapters, which I initially thought might be a typo, maybe it was changed in development and some old references slipped through edit, but on reflection maybe Khodaverdi is nonbinary and uses both?  I don't know how I'd tell, without adding some awkward "This is my bondsman, who identifies as nonbinary and uses he/she pronouns" line, which doesn't seem like the right answer either.  I suppose that's one benefit to a Dramatis Personae, though that has its drawbacks as well (like not being able to surprise us with Nikita Malthus if all the characters are listed up front).  There was another place or two as well where I had to stop and reread to figure out if "they" was being used as singular or plural (Kind of a "Wait, Alexis and Teresa, or just one with a singular they?" kind of thing, though I don't recall the exact scenes).  Any time like that where I'm stopping to reread and figure out who's being referred to tends to break immersion for me, though I know you're trying to add diversity, not muddy the waters.  If I had a solution I'd offer one.


I want to reiterate though that that's technical stuff.  The story was great.  The Sudeten climax especially had me on the edge of my seat.  I knew Hasara wasn't a Mongol, and there had to be more going on there, but still couldn't be sure.  The Antares story was good too, but a bit more predictable in where it was going (well, except for Tevish.  Good twist there.), so there was a real dynamic of "I have to read this Antares chapter so I can get back to the Sudeten action" going on as I finished it.  The epilogue was good too, seeing Bloodnames begin to proliferate again and whatnot.


Edit: Wait.  Was Jiyi "them" for a minute because Nikita hadn't recognized him?  I mean, now that I type it that seems obvious, and fits the paradigm of using "they" for an unknown like the pilot in an enemy mech.  How did that not occur to me until just now?
[/spoiler]
« Last Edit: 01 June 2024, 22:41:05 by Arkansas Warrior »
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Without Question
« Reply #32 on: 01 June 2024, 22:58:03 »
[spoiler]While I was kind of surprised to see Jiyi use the word "fascist", the Mongol Falcons were never a subtle allegory for fascism.

Meanwhile, "they" has been used as a singular pronoun for a person of indeterminate gender for centuries: Shakespeare used it in his plays.  It's only in the last few years that there's been a backlash against that usage "not being correct."  In the passage referenced, "they" is used because the figure can't be identified by anyone in the audience until the spotlight comes on.[/spoiler]
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Without Question
« Reply #33 on: 01 June 2024, 23:15:55 »
[spoiler]Maybe not subtle to some people, but as I said, the clans as a whole can be taken as a fascist metaphor pretty easily, I don’t see that Malvina’s particular brand of rule by the strong and terrorize the weak is that different from the Smoke Jaguars. Or Alaric, for that matter.


Yes, if I wasn’t clear, I get they as singular sometimes, I just completely spaced on what the deal was with that particular scene until just now.  I know it’s been used for centuries, Shakespeare etc.  [/spoiler]
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Without Question
« Reply #34 on: 01 June 2024, 23:44:21 »
[spoiler]Malvina's the only one who went the extra mile by being a blue-eyed blonde in a snappy black uniform...[/spoiler]
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Swankmotron

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Re: Without Question
« Reply #35 on: 02 June 2024, 12:35:43 »
[spoiler]

Edit: Wait.  Was Jiyi "them" for a minute because Nikita hadn't recognized him?  I mean, now that I type it that seems obvious, and fits the paradigm of using "they" for an unknown like the pilot in an enemy mech.  How did that not occur to me until just now?
[/spoiler]

This is exactly right. She didn't recognize the figure, and the pronouns kicked in as soon as she did.

As far as Khodaverdi, those were typos. Khodaverdi appears in one scene in A Question of Survival. And I re-read it one more time before I started revisions on Without Question and realized that in A Question of Survival she was a she, but in Without Question I'd written her as a he. So we went through and tried to fix all of that, and we've had to do an update to the manuscript to get it right, but that was definitely not intentional.

Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Without Question
« Reply #36 on: 02 June 2024, 14:47:03 »
Got it, thanks.  It didn’t occur to me to check back in A Question of Survival (which I also enjoyed, btw).
Sunrise is Coming.

All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

Garak

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Re: Without Question
« Reply #37 on: 03 July 2024, 18:19:29 »
Just finished reading this and I loved it (and the previous one too). You have me rooting for the Jade Falcons! How in the world? I can't recall ever wanting a Falcon to win anything and now I'm hoping these Falcons will survive and prosper. Can't wait to see more of Jiyi and Alexis.

The Fox Patrol cameo was also fun, hope we'll see more of them in the big stories.

Swankmotron

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Re: Without Question
« Reply #38 on: 05 July 2024, 20:47:47 »
Just finished reading this and I loved it (and the previous one too). You have me rooting for the Jade Falcons! How in the world? I can't recall ever wanting a Falcon to win anything and now I'm hoping these Falcons will survive and prosper. Can't wait to see more of Jiyi and Alexis.

The Fox Patrol cameo was also fun, hope we'll see more of them in the big stories.

Oh, thanks!

And I think we'll definitely see more of the Fox Patrol. And I'm really glad folks are enjoying the new Falcons.

Bren

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Re: Without Question
« Reply #39 on: 18 August 2024, 22:55:47 »
Bringing up the rear -- finally finished the book a few days ago.

My initial reaction was fairly negative so I wanted to give it some time to 'sit', read a few reviews, and listen to some other reactions/interviews. I'm glad I did, as my nit-picking nerd rage has mellowed a bit.


The TL;DR of it is; I basically liked the overarching events, the plot, the main story beats, etc., but really didn't like how the Clanners thought and acted.


In the middle of the book the phrase 'cosplay clanners' popped in my head and stuck. I've seen many comments here and elsewhere that say that they're finally reading about some Clanners/Jade Falcons that they can get behind, or can empathize with. After reading the book I can see why, unfortunately; Clan characters who appeal to readers who have never much cared for Clan characters.

Time and time again I found myself shaking my head and thinking, "that's not what a Clan warrior would do ...". Or, more accurately; "that's not what I would have them do" (read that last bit in the appropriate, whiney, nerd-rage voice).

After Tamar Rising I was very excited to see how a more traditional Jade Falcon Clan would navigate their unprecedented and precarious position. They were in no way 'built' for this new situation -- and so I was excited to see how Crocodile Dundee would fare in the big city, as it were ...

Unfortunately, in my eyes, it's less bushman ingenuity and more of a willingness to don a suit and get in a cubicle (the suit being an actual turn of events, sadly).

Alexis has every excuse to act like a 'weirdo' (from a Jade Falcon perspective), but even still there were some egregious moments.

All that said -- I am focusing on the negative. The main moves of the story, the overall narrative, the writing 'craft', were very enjoyable. Nearly all the 'Sphereoid' characters and dialogue were a good time. I'm more than ready for any future Bugsy Heidegger that hits the page.