Author Topic: A faster Dart CL  (Read 217 times)

Wildfire

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A faster Dart CL
« on: 07 November 2024, 14:45:22 »
Getting back into some naval games and tinkering with old favorites, gave it some more speed and some better strategic legs and an AMS belt.

Left the weapons alone, though I'm thinking of stripping them out for a carrier option, seeing if I can squeeze a decent air group aboard along with some long range capitol weapons

Dart Light Cruiser (2700)
Mass: 680,000 tons
Use: Light Cruiser
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 2700
Mass: 680,000
Battle Value: 115,290
Tech Rating/Availability: E/E-X-E-F
Cost: 24,734,143,718 C-bills

Dimensions
    Length: 703 m
    Height: 1135 m Sail

Fuel: 8,975 tons (22,437)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 15
Heat Sinks: 2,358
Structural Integrity: 90

Armor
    Nose: 279
    Fore Sides: 230/230
    Aft Sides: 204/204
    Aft: 131

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (6)         2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Cargo (90857.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    1,920 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (8 tons),
    185 rounds of NAC/25 ammunition (111 tons),
    40 rounds of Killer Whale ammunition (2,000 tons),
    100 rounds of NAC/20 ammunition (40 tons),
    80 rounds of NAC/30 ammunition (64 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 6
Grav Decks: 2 (145 m, 145 m)
Escape Pods: 29
Life Boats: 35
Crew:  45 officers, 148 enlisted/non-rated, 36 gunners, 30 bay personnel, 120 marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
   1,224 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                       Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                 Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (345 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                120  40(400) 40(400) 40(400)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/20 Ammo (100 shots)
2 Naval Laser 45                           140  9(90)   9(90)   9(90)    9(90)   Capital Laser
4 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)  80   16(160) 16(160) 16(160) 16(160)  Capital Missile
    Killer Whale Ammo (40 shots)
5 Anti-Missile System                       5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (240 shots)
FRS/FLS (279 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 35                           104  7(70)   7(70)   7(70)     0(0)   Capital Laser
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/25)                170  50(500) 50(500) 50(500)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/25 Ammo (40 shots)
5 Anti-Missile System                       5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (240 shots)
RBS/LBS (415 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/30)                200  60(600) 60(600) 60(600)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/30 Ammo (40 shots)
2 Naval PPC (Light)                        210  14(140) 14(140) 14(140)   0(0)   Capital PPC
5 Anti-Missile System                       5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (240 shots)
ARS/ALS (279 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 35                           104  7(70)   7(70)   7(70)     0(0)   Capital Laser
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/25)                170  50(500) 50(500) 50(500)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/25 Ammo (40 shots)
5 Anti-Missile System                       5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (240 shots)
Aft (279 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 35                           104  7(70)   7(70)   7(70)     0(0)   Capital Laser
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/25)                170  50(500) 50(500) 50(500)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/25 Ammo (25 shots)
5 Anti-Missile System                       5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (240 shots)



Hellraiser

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Re: A faster Dart CL
« Reply #1 on: 07 November 2024, 15:23:21 »
Left the weapons alone, though I'm thinking of stripping them out for a carrier option, seeing if I can squeeze a decent air group aboard along with some long range capitol weapons

1.  The one thing I hate about some canon weapons is the crazy way they screw with logistics.
Look at this thing,  3 different NAC calibers that all have the same range??
Another 3 different energy weapons, no ammo but I'm sure repairs/training would be better if they were the same.
Trimming that down to just NL45/NAC20 would be most "efficient" & allow bracketing w/ some 3-5 gun bays,  while even just consolidating to the 2 "common" models on board of NL35 & NAC25 would be consistent if nothing else.

2.  I wouldn't bother messing w/ the ASF bays really.  You have SIX docking collars, a Vengeance/Titan (or 2) solves any ASF problems you might come up with.
I mean on a new design sure, but I'm guessing your goal was minimal changes, just hitting Speed/Armor/AMS.

3.  I forgot this thing had 90 SI to start out with, (the McKenna only has 95 & its the "toughest ever" in the SL era. 
The armor that can be packed on is impressive.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Wildfire

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Re: A faster Dart CL
« Reply #2 on: 07 November 2024, 16:48:21 »
1.  The one thing I hate about some canon weapons is the crazy way they screw with logistics.
Look at this thing,  3 different NAC calibers that all have the same range??
Another 3 different energy weapons, no ammo but I'm sure repairs/training would be better if they were the same.
Trimming that down to just NL45/NAC20 would be most "efficient" & allow bracketing w/ some 3-5 gun bays,  while even just consolidating to the 2 "common" models on board of NL35 & NAC25 would be consistent if nothing else.

I went with the NL45/NAC 20 combo and managed to find some tonnage to increase the bay sizes and flipped the heat sinks to doubles.

Aye the armour is maxed out.


Dart Light Cruiser (2700)
Mass: 680,000 tons
Use: Light Cruiser
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 2700
Mass: 680,000
Battle Value: 109,552
Tech Rating/Availability: E/E-X-E-F
Cost: 24,696,411,718 C-bills

Dimensions
    Length: 703 m
    Height: 1135 m Sail

Fuel: 8,975 tons (22,437)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 15
Heat Sinks: 1765 (3530)
Structural Integrity: 90

Armor
    Nose: 279
    Fore Sides: 230/230
    Aft Sides: 204/204
    Aft: 131

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (6)         2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Cargo (82612.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    1,920 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (160 tons),
    40 rounds of Killer Whale ammunition (2,000 tons),
    800 rounds of NAC/20 ammunition (42.8 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 6
Grav Decks: 2 (145 m, 145 m)
Escape Pods: 29
Life Boats: 35
Crew:  45 officers, 148 enlisted/non-rated, 55 gunners, 30 bay personnel, 120 marines

Notes: Equipped with
    lithium-fusion battery system
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
   1,224 tons of lamellor ferro-carbide armor.

Weapons:                                       Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                 Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (555 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                120  40(400) 40(400) 40(400)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/20 Ammo (100 shots)
5 Naval Laser 45                           350  23(225) 23(225) 23(225) 23(225)  Capital Laser
4 Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)  80   16(160) 16(160) 16(160) 16(160)  Capital Missile
    Killer Whale Ammo (40 shots)
5 Anti-Missile System                       5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (240 shots)
FRS/FLS (335 Heat)
3 Naval Laser 45                           210  14(135) 14(135) 14(135) 14(135)  Capital Laser
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                120  40(400) 40(400) 40(400)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/20 Ammo (100 shots)
5 Anti-Missile System                       5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (240 shots)
RBS/LBS (650 Heat)
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                120  40(400) 40(400) 40(400)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/20 Ammo (100 shots)
5 Naval PPC (Light)                        525  35(350) 35(350) 35(350)   0(0)   Capital PPC
5 Anti-Missile System                       5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (240 shots)
ARS/ALS (335 Heat)
3 Naval Laser 45                           210  14(135) 14(135) 14(135) 14(135)  Capital Laser
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                120  40(400) 40(400) 40(400)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/20 Ammo (100 shots)
5 Anti-Missile System                       5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (240 shots)
Aft (335 Heat)
3 Naval Laser 45                           210  14(135) 14(135) 14(135) 14(135)  Capital Laser
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/20)                120  40(400) 40(400) 40(400)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/20 Ammo (100 shots)
5 Anti-Missile System                       5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (240 shots)

Daryk

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Re: A faster Dart CL
« Reply #3 on: 07 November 2024, 18:54:55 »
Good call!  NL/35s have no reason to exist.  The 45 is better in every way, and totally worth the extra weight and heat.

idea weenie

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Re: A faster Dart CL
« Reply #4 on: 09 November 2024, 17:04:05 »
Good call!  NL/35s have no reason to exist.  The 45 is better in every way, and totally worth the extra weight and heat.

Got bored, so I compared the three sizes of Naval Lasers:
Tons/pt of damage: 200 tons per pt of Capital damage for all three sizes
Heat/pt of Cap Dmg:
- NL/35 - 14.86 Heat/pt of Cap damage
- NL/45 - 15.56 Heat/pt of Cap damage
- NL/55 - 15.45 Heat/pt of Cap damage
Cost/pt of Cap Dmg:
- NL/35 - 142,857 C-Bills/pt of Cap Damage
- NL/45 - 188,889 C-Bills/pt of Cap Damage
- NL/55 - 227,273 C-Bills/pt of Cap Damage

So the NL/35 produces slightly less heat per pt of damage, and is about 24% less in cost per pt of damage.  The NL/45 only has 4 more hexes of range, so if you need a relatively cheap weapon for damage then the NL/35 is the best.  The problem is that the KF core is so expensive relative to the rest of the Warship that any attempts to cut costs are not really worth it.

Also, using NL/45 vs NL/35 for the same amount of damage means you will be using ~23% fewer weapons. This means you are less likely to run into the 20-weapon limit before Fire Control tonnage starts showing up.

Daryk

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Re: A faster Dart CL
« Reply #5 on: 09 November 2024, 17:10:55 »
Those four hexes of range translate into having Extreme range when abstracted (which 35s don't have).  That's a binary thing not accounted for in the heat or cost calculations.  Being able to kite is a huge advantage.

Hellraiser

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Re: A faster Dart CL
« Reply #6 on: 09 November 2024, 20:19:50 »
Good call!  NL/35s have no reason to exist. 

The 45 is better in every way, and totally worth the extra weight and heat.

In universe?  Maybe it was the 1st Gen.

Sadly the 35-45-55 all scale identically for tonnage/damage/heat/c-bills. 
But then don't all have the same range which is why the 35 fails.

I could still see them used on a close assault warship.

3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo