Battletech: What rules would you have written differently?

[Charistoph]

The only building emplacement rules I'm familiar with happen to be out of the BattleTech Manual and the BMR.  And, when powering the weapons, the rating was based equipment tonnage, I think.  Been a while since I looked, though.

They're in Tactical Operations: Advanced Rules now.  It may not have been Damage, but Tonnage.  Let me check... *scrambles for backpack*...

Power Systems and Amplifiers is on pg 129, but for independent power systems, they refer you to Power Generators.

Power Generators starts on pg 131, with construction on the next page.  This is added to 10% of the Heavy Energy Weapons in the building, which is then multiplied by the generator type.

[Daemion]

I wouldn't be surprised if things have changed between the BMR and Tac Ops.

[Daryk]

They put that in AR, not AUE?  WTF? ???

[Charistoph]

They put that in AR, not AUE?  WTF? ???

Artillery rules, too.  I guess if it's not in a mobile unit (or a mobile unit), it's not worthy of AUE.

[Daryk]

Sigh... it is what it is..

[Daemion]

And, thus the call for a rules reorganization. ;)

[Zematus737]

Power amps go hand in hand with regular construction of most units that don't have a fusion engine but have weapons or equipment that require extra power.  It shouldn't be in AUE imo since it is a baseline part for most CV's and construction rules.  Weights are based on weapon tonnage.

[Charistoph]

Power amps go hand in hand with regular construction of most units that don't have a fusion engine but have weapons or equipment that require extra power.  It shouldn't be in AUE imo since it is a baseline part for most CV's and construction rules.  Weights are based on weapon tonnage.

But those construction rules aren't in Advanced Rules, and it's usually a good idea for completion to have them there, so people don't think they need to incorporate them.  It's not like that paragraph fundamentally changes the page count of the book, after all.

[Daemion]

Another one:
Infantry Ranges (that is, ranges of weapons relative to unit types they're pointed at.)

The common justification for the short-short-short range of battletech weapons, is Battlmech armors.  ATOW gives significantly longer ranges for rifles and machineguns and the like vs. human beings, than the base ranges in TM or standard Battletech.

Armor and Sensor jamming, among some other potentials. 

I apologize, but I want to take a moment to play temporary devil's advocate for moment about a concept.

People complain about the Napoleonic formations and the fact that Conventional Infantry get the same benefits of armored targets when it comes to ranges.  I happen to be one of them.

But, I recall that some of the writers have professed to adhering to the idea of ambient ECM and sensor jamming being a large factor behind the ranges.  It's possible to envision that the Conventional Infantry have to deploy in platoons so that their miniscule sensor jamming packages which comes with their standard gear is more powerful and effective when they're in large numbers, close together.  This allows them to march up in clear line of sight and not have to worry about getting sniped at Line of Sight ranges by something which relies heavily on sensors to fire a laser with pinpoint accuracy. 

This has never been officially declared as the case.  But, if they were to do so, I might be able to work with it.

However, it does create it's own conceptual problems.  For instance, what happens when you start to weaken the field when troopers start dropping?  Also, if they're able to network sensor jamming across multiple bodies, how come they can't do the same with sensor packages to help get the ranges for their heavy anti-armor weapons to reach the same ranges as what's found on Combat Vehicles like tanks, mechs and power armor?

And, it fails when you realize that it doesn't effect the Mark 1 eyeball or general cameras.  (And, what is the mk 1 eyeball but a gelatinous camera?)  The only way to jam that is to a) overpower it with light and blind it, or b)  change how it perceives the data, which can include camouflage or actively hacking and rewriting the interpretive subroutines.   

[/Devil's Advocate]

[Cannonshop]

Armor and Sensor jamming, among some other potentials. 

I apologize, but I want to take a moment to play temporary devil's advocate for moment about a concept.

People complain about the Napoleonic formations and the fact that Conventional Infantry get the same benefits of armored targets when it comes to ranges.  I happen to be one of them.

But, I recall that some of the writers have professed to adhering to the idea of ambient ECM and sensor jamming being a large factor behind the ranges.  It's possible to envision that the Conventional Infantry have to deploy in platoons so that their miniscule sensor jamming packages which comes with their standard gear is more powerful and effective when they're in large numbers, close together.  This allows them to march up in clear line of sight and not have to worry about getting sniped at Line of Sight ranges by something which relies heavily on sensors to fire a laser with pinpoint accuracy. 

This has never been officially declared as the case.  But, if they were to do so, I might be able to work with it.

However, it does create it's own conceptual problems.  For instance, what happens when you start to weaken the field when troopers start dropping?  Also, if they're able to network sensor jamming across multiple bodies, how come they can't do the same with sensor packages to help get the ranges for their heavy anti-armor weapons to reach the same ranges as what's found on Combat Vehicles like tanks, mechs and power armor?

And, it fails when you realize that it doesn't effect the Mark 1 eyeball or general cameras.  (And, what is the mk 1 eyeball but a gelatinous camera?)  The only way to jam that is to a) overpower it with light and blind it, or b)  change how it perceives the data, which can include camouflage or actively hacking and rewriting the interpretive subroutines.   

[/Devil's Advocate]

Not to mention, an ECM field that strong is going to absolutely ****** up a human being's body.  We used to have to sweep dead birds off the radar, it's not hard to imagine what an ECM/Jamming field strong enough to overcome eyeballs will do to troops, wildlife, plants...

[monbvol]

Which does bring up another obvious counter to the ECM argument: Last I checked trees don't generate ECM fields.

[idea weenie]

And, that supports the idea that the actual, physical power plant in a Mech isn't that heavy as the 'rating' would have you believe.  It really is extra Myomer beyond the base IS to get the MP for Mechs, and probably means more power plug-in slots to the reactor itself.

But, the power train of a modern vehicle isn't the same as more Myomer and more signal boosters to get the contractions at higher speeds, or raw strength to move heavier weights. 

However, if that's really the case, then the physical damage that Mechs should be able to do should probably also be based on the engine rating and not on pure tonnage, as well.

So, a Cicada should be kicking as hard as An Awesome with a 320 Power (Engine) Rating.

It would also be covering the extra structural material to handle the higher accelerations.  Stronger bones, stronger suspensions, etc.

[Daemion]

Which does bring up another obvious counter to the ECM argument: Last I checked trees don't generate ECM fields.

You must be talking about terrain modification and targeting.  Well, that also brings into question the argument about armor, too. 

But, in all honesty, the trees are probably getting the benefit of active fields produced by the combatants.  Once there aren't enemy combatants on the field, you're no longer in combat, and I bet you could shoot to the edge of the solar system without problems.

Edit: If you want an old school rules loop to show what I mean, there's the firing beyond long range rules in the BMR.  It was usually for generating heat and wasting ammo.  But, the target would automatically be missed, ie no damage.  However, what happens when you miss a target in woods?  You can accidentally set those woods on fire. Still needed to happen on a roll of 11 or 12.

And, if you go back a rules iteration or two, there was accidentally clearing those woods on a roll of 2 or 3.

But, yeah, I kinda agree that clearing woods shouldn't be dependent on range if you want to really show off the power of Future Tech.

[idea weenie]

One thing I would write differently is that the Front-line Clan Warriors don't use Targeting Computers.

A Targeting Computer is essentially a tonnage penalty used to augment the accuracy of the Mechwarrior.  This essentially says that the Warrior needs help to be that accurate, plus is an amount of material that could be put to use elsewhere if the Warrior was better skilled.

Second-Line, Solahma, or dezgra Clan units might have a Targeting Computer, but Front-Line Warriors would not use it.

[Charistoph]

That's not the only use for a Targeting Computer, as they can do Called Shots on locations without Immobilizing the target.

Still, if that was the only reason to have such a device (and it being a bit lighter as a result), it would make sense.

[idea weenie]

That's not the only use for a Targeting Computer, as they can do Called Shots on locations without Immobilizing the target.

Still, if that was the only reason to have such a device (and it being a bit lighter as a result), it would make sense.

That would be a nice way to separate them.  Halve their tonnages and you get:

• Clan Targeting Computer - only used to make Called Shots (so 0.5 tons per 5 tons of direct-fire weapons)
• Inner Sphere Targeting Computer - version only for general accuracy is 1 ton per 8 tons of direct-fire weapons, version only for called shots is also 1 ton per 8 tons of direct-fire weapons.  Can put both on the same Mech.

Clanners are going around the battlefield try to damage specific components both to prove their skill and to ensure a good supply of parts (i.e. instead of only destroying left legs, they split the destruction 50-50)

The Inner Sphere pilots are hoping they can get enough accuracy bonus to return fire vs the Clan invaders.

[ColBosch]

I'd cut the ECCM rules entirely, and I did heavily contribute to the current rules. Pages of dross covering all sorts of edge cases, with examples and diagrams, that nobody would ever use.

[Daemion]

That's not the only use for a Targeting Computer, as they can do Called Shots on locations without Immobilizing the target.

Still, if that was the only reason to have such a device (and it being a bit lighter as a result), it would make sense.

That's not the only use for a Targeting Computer, as they can do Called Shots on locations without Immobilizing the target.

Still, if that was the only reason to have such a device (and it being a bit lighter as a result), it would make sense.

Actually, if you allow SPAs, you don't need to dedicate tonnage at all to get the Called Shot ability.  Maximum Tech had the 'Bull's-eye Marksman' advanced pilot ability which granted the pilot the same ability with some strict restrictions.  (Stationary and can only be done with one weapon and no other weapons fire from the pilot that turn.)

I imagine they ported that over to the current batch of SPAs.  It would give Trueborn pilots something to really set them apart if they're granted one SPA like this as part of their generation at the start of a game.

[Cannonshop]

I'd cut the ECCM rules entirely, and I did heavily contribute to the current rules. Pages of dross covering all sorts of edge cases, with examples and diagrams, that nobody would ever use.

I...might've done it differently.  ECM? Meet Active Probe.  They cancel each other out, done.

In some ways, harder to do, but in so MANY ways tabletop, easier if the hard counter is exactly that.

[ColBosch]

I...might've done it differently.  ECM? Meet Active Probe.  They cancel each other out, done.

In some ways, harder to do, but in so MANY ways tabletop, easier if the hard counter is exactly that.

My job was to incorporate the errata, not to make editorial changes, but given my druthers I absolutely would've greatly simplified the whole gamut of electronic warfare and stealth equipment.

[Charistoph]

Actually, if you allow SPAs, you don't need to dedicate tonnage at all to get the Called Shot ability.  Maximum Tech had the 'Bull's-eye Marksman' advanced pilot ability which granted the pilot the same ability with some strict restrictions.  (Stationary and can only be done with one weapon and no other weapons fire from the pilot that turn.)

I imagine they ported that over to the current batch of SPAs.  It would give Trueborn pilots something to really set them apart if they're granted one SPA like this as part of their generation at the start of a game.

It is, twice.  One is Marksman, and the other is Sharpshooter.  It's expensive even before the "1 Weapon & Can't Move" costs are incorporated.  Basically it costs the same as Jumping Jack (Jumping AMM is +1) and Range Master (Swap Short Range Modifier with either Medium or Long).  Sharpshooter adds an auto-crit to the function.  It's not so bad with a Kit Fox or a Shadow Cat.  It tends to suck with units that tend to carry a few heavy weapons like the Nova Cat.

Guess what I can do with a Targeting Computer that you can't do with Marksman?  Move and do Called Shots with multiple guns.  Which works great with Mechs that have a lot of heavy guns like the Warhawk, or need to move and scoot to survive.

[Lycanphoenix]

MoS modifiers? Please explain.
Edit: Crap. Once again mistook a post on the first page for a current one.