MoTW: Mangonel

[Ratwedge]

Is it me or did Gyedid forget that the Mangonel was a Battlemech for the Exiles to help patch up the Touman and that it was only built sparingly and not sold to the Lyrans? Heck the POS was designed and built by Lyrans so if hes going to blame anyone he should blame the Kell Hounds and Arc-Royal MechWorks. I also noticed he didn't mention anything about the Isegrim, not surprising because it does call into question the validity of his complaints about the Lyran not getting any toys.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Necroing the thread, but since this article was originally written a new variant of the Mangonel has come into being and I was curious about it.  The 4S is mixed tech, with the original stock Mangonel's chassis, armor, and engine but an all-new Clantech weapon loadout.

A HAG 40 backed by paired Clan ER Mediums and MPLs seems pretty dangerous, though even with the improved armor layout it still looks a bit fragile.

[Empyrus]

Mangonel!
The mixtech version seems quite reasonable to me, considering the original principle of the Mangonel.
10 tons of IS ferro is quite a bit. Not max, but everything being Gauss or AC/20 proof is pretty good, especially when you consider the range of the HAG40 and the mobility of the 'Mech. And not many 'Mechs like to get close to it either, Clan lasers being what they're.
Would've liked one extra point of armor in the center torso front but whatever, nice round numbers like 30 rarely stay as such before getting hit by a Gauss rifle twice.

The 4S is considerably improved over the stock, yet not as abominable departure from the original's style (guns on both sides as opposed to twin guns on one side) as the pure Clan-spec version, so it gets my approval even if it has some short comings.
EDIT Well, improvement and improvement. Unfortunately the new thing is really expensive BV-wise. Can i have a version with IS lasers but keep the HAG40? EDIT nevermind that. Swapping the lasers would lower the BV cost only by 200 points but the Clan lasers outperform their IS equivalents by far, worth the 200 points certainly.

Personally, i would've made the 'Mechs original version with LB-5Xs and maybe some special armor and/or X-pulse lasers rather than LGRs, but that's just me. I believe Welshman says earlier in the thread that the design was mandated by MWDA data but i've never see anything similar to the 3L or 3W.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Yeah, read through the thread last night: when the mech was being designed they tried working backwards off the DA specs and realized it was impossible with IS tech so the Clantech version was the original, then they made the IS version based off that.  And it is the first mech I've seen where I can actually say that I'd have preferred LB-5x ACs to its stock loadout.

[Empyrus]

Still wonder where the hell the DA specs are located. They aren't in the any free MWDA PDF stuff compilations. Don't recall the 'Mech being mentioned in the books either, but i haven't read them all.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I'm guessing that the specs were guestimates based on the clicky mini rather than printed stats.

[CranstonSnord]

Specs were detailed in the LE dossiers. Also, some of the playtest materials came with unit loadouts, so they exist...

[Colt Ward]

Was Anastasia piloting the -3W?

[Empyrus]

Specs were detailed in the LE dossiers. Also, some of the playtest materials came with unit loadouts, so they exist...

I'm pretty sure all LE dossiers are available in PDF form for free, and i believe i read every single one, yet recall no Mangonel stats presented anywhere. The Mangonel may have been mentioned.
So i wonder if Catalyst had the specs behind the scenes but they weren't available for public. That, or the PDF compilations are not complete.

Or maybe they're in the playtest materials, i don't recall ever seeing those in PDF form.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Mangonel
Interestingly Sarna notes: "One Mangonel sighted in action during the Dark Age era was described as mounting Autocannons instead of Gauss Rifles." with citation needed.

Was Anastasia piloting the -3W?

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Anastasia_Kerensky#BattleMech
Sarna says: "She later piloted a MNL-V1-H Mangonel that was affectionately named "Alpha"."

One of the weird Dark Age designations. The variant hasn't been canonized, so it is unclear if the designation still holds true and the 'Mech is merely lacking stats, or if the designation is basically uncanonical.
The other named Mangonel, the Copperhead, has identical designation, with very different stats. The generic Mangonels have designations MGL-V1-H and MGL-V3-H, according to Warrenborn.com.

I'm inclined to believe her Mangonel might be customized (on the account of her being an important character and having piloted customized Ryoken II), but no idea which variant it might be based on.

[Colt Ward]

Version 1-Heavy . . . I want to say that by that point they were using designations that were not based on model numbers since the -H was for what pilots could sit in the mech.  For instance, the Steel Wolf Uziel from AoD is UZL-5L-M and the Blade is BLD-XV-L.  The Stormhammer Hellstar is HTR-3K-A while the Hell's Horses Timberwolf is TMB-VP-H . . . so the last letter is the weight class.  The V1, 5L, XV, 3K and VP . . . well, who knows . . . heck, I have never seen HTR or TMB for the Clan mechs.

[Empyrus]

Clan 'Mechs never posses model designations in canonical BattleTech as far i can recall. TMB is probably Timber Wolf, and HTR is Hellstar. (MWO invents designations for Clan 'Mechs as well.) Doubt V stands for version here, the system seems to be lacking consistence for that.

Either way easy to see why Catalyst ignored MWDA designations completely.

Hope we'll eventually see some Dark Age "uniques" that are in MWDA but lack canonical stats in BattleTech. Uncertain how many there are but still.
Say, "Spotlight On: Steel Wolves", with "Alpha" included there...

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Just so long as we never have to deal with the spiky Atlas.

[Wrangler]

I remember that Anastasia Kerensky's Mangonel in the MWDA Wolf Hunters (by the way great book), went haywire due to suspected sabotage. The thing went heywire, like doing disco spin, nearly killed her.  That what lead to her to getting her MadCat Mk IV prototype Omni.

Only time in print i saw Mangonel used in fiction.

[Empyrus]

I remember that Anastasia Kerensky's Mangonel in the MWDA Wolf Hunters (by the way great book), went haywire due to suspected sabotage. The thing went heywire, like doing disco spin, nearly killed her.  That what lead to her to getting her MadCat Mk IV prototype Omni.

Only time in print i saw Mangonel used in fiction.

You're mixing up her Ryoken II (which was equipped with jump jets that got sabotaged) with the Mangonel, which never appeared in the books.
It is unclear when she piloted the Mangonel, given that the books had her pilot the Ryoken II and then the Savage Wolf.

[Wrangler]

You're mixing up her Ryoken II (which was equipped with jump jets that got sabotaged) with the Mangonel, which never appeared in the books.
It is unclear when she piloted the Mangonel, given that the books had her pilot the Ryoken II and then the Savage Wolf.

Ack, my bust. I thought it did mention it in the novel.

[Colt Ward]

Clan 'Mechs never posses model designations in canonical BattleTech as far i can recall. TMB is probably Timber Wolf, and HTR is Hellstar. (MWO invents designations for Clan 'Mechs as well.) Doubt V stands for version here, the system seems to be lacking consistence for that.

Either way easy to see why Catalyst ignored MWDA designations completely.

Hope we'll eventually see some Dark Age "uniques" that are in MWDA but lack canonical stats in BattleTech. Uncertain how many there are but still.
Say, "Spotlight On: Steel Wolves", with "Alpha" included there...

Like I said, the last -A/H/M/L went with what pilot card you could match for best use.

And I thought she used the Mangonel when she faced off with Paladin Marik in one of the statelets he had been sheparding . . . I think on a Chaos March world.

Edit-  Dec 3135, at the head of the Shiloh Alliance forces trying to take Phecda which hired the newly formed Wolf Hunters.

[Darkwing]

You're correct Colt, she piloted one briefly on one of the DA novels. before she got her Mad Cat 3

[Wrangler]

It's funny, i was dabbling on youtube. I came across the Dave School FULL video of the MechWarrior Dark Age film they didn't finish.  Quality of the video isn't so good, but you can see Mangonel being used in it.

it's bit of interesting take on it. Mangonel wasn't able use it's long range weapons.

[Colt Ward]

Its a IV DarkWing, the III was a Stormcrow clone with a marketing name.

[wantec]

Still wonder where the hell the DA specs are located. They aren't in the any free MWDA PDF stuff compilations. Don't recall the 'Mech being mentioned in the books either, but i haven't read them all.

The stats to the Clan version of the Mangonel were published by Kelly Bonilla, the lead designer at the time, on the WK MWDA forums.

[Empyrus]

The stats to the Clan version of the Mangonel were published by Kelly Bonilla, the lead designer at the time, on the WK MWDA forums.

Well, that's one mystery (to me) solved then! Thanks.

Hrmm, wonder how long ago that would've been. 2004 maybe?

[Colt Ward]

Did this ever get any quirks?  B/c I think 'easy to modify (RT)' might be easy to accept since its got those two big guns so it should be a huge weapons bay to mount two big guns. 

[Empyrus]

Did this ever get any quirks?  B/c I think 'easy to modify (RT)' might be easy to accept since its got those two big guns so it should be a huge weapons bay to mount two big guns.

Pretty sure it ain't easy to modify, the Clan version is completely different version when you consider it uses all Clan-tech construction to boot.
TRO 3085 notes that the 3W is basically entirely different machine.

The Mangonel features "difficult to maintain" and "no/minimal arms quirks" per BMM. Pity it ain't got any positive quirks. Long-range targeting would've been neat...
EDIT Duh, accurate weapon "LGR" would've been wonderful, since the TRO entry notes they're exceptionally accurate. Of course, BMM quirks are the kind that are usually only applicable to all variants.

[Colt Ward]

Well, I was not meaning the Clan version specifically but more what I was referring was how you could swap out two different big guns for the LGRs.  Like the previously mentioned LB-5X in place of the LGRs.  The way the torso is described & looks makes that RT seem like one big open space even with the 2 crits for the LFE.

[Empyrus]

Argh, real pity the 3L doesn't mount an XL gyro. Would'be good fit here, considering the 'Mech's intended to stay at range. It would free two tons, one for ammo, one to increase armor to 75%. Heck, i'd take even a small cockpit to boot, for further ammo, armor or maybe C3 slave.

Well, I was not meaning the Clan version specifically but more what I was referring was how you could swap out two different big guns for the LGRs.  Like the previously mentioned LB-5X in place of the LGRs.  The way the torso is described & looks makes that RT seem like one big open space even with the 2 crits for the LFE.

Ah, i see what you mean. Remove the LGRs, and the 'Mechs right torso is basically enormous weapons bay.
Easy to modify would be quite cool certainly, the LB-5Xs would be good fits but i can see someone cramming in some missile launchers or energy weapons or whatever.
But i suppose "easy to modify" includes a bit more than just having space, wiring etc. probably need to be easily adaptable as well.

[Empyrus]

Incidentally, we both forgot that there is no such quirk as "easy to modify". There is "modular weapons", but that's rather specific thing (eg the Mercury), and "easy to maintain" which is different.
Going through the quirk list, there are no other (positive) quirks that relate to modifications.

[Colt Ward]

Yeah, I did not think there was . . . and to be honest, I think throwing ELRMs in for the LGRs might be interesting.  It was also why I was suggesting a weapon with ammo feeds to keep it 'close.'

Also interesting to note is the -3W is the first mech since the Blood Asp Prime that had double Gauss Rifles and the only one before that I can remember would be the Mad Dog C-  simply b/c in Clan tech its more efficient to have 2 ERPPCs.

[JadeHellbringer]

Yeah, I did not think there was . . . and to be honest, I think throwing ELRMs in for the LGRs might be interesting.  It was also why I was suggesting a weapon with ammo feeds to keep it 'close.'

Also interesting to note is the -3W is the first mech since the Blood Asp Prime that had double Gauss Rifles and the only one before that I can remember would be the Mad Dog C-  simply b/c in Clan tech its more efficient to have 2 ERPPCs.

Wasn't the Dire Wolf H a twin-Gauss? It's been a while, but I think it had them.

But yeah, it's a remarkably rare weapon combo, particularly compared to the cacophony of IS designs packing twin-Gauss.

[Colt Ward]

The equivalent is the paired ERPPCs and we got those versions at nearly the same rate as the IS got their double Guass- and the Clans get 1 additional hex of range to boot!  I guess our equivalent to the Thunderhawk was the Hellstar, but I also do not recall any 2 ERPPC & 1 GR assault mechs which would have been a more efficient Clan version IMO.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Wasn't the Dire Wolf H a twin-Gauss? It's been a while, but I think it had them.

But yeah, it's a remarkably rare weapon combo, particularly compared to the cacophony of IS designs packing twin-Gauss.

Yes, and the Turkina A, as well.