Star Trek Discovery

[Øystein]

And that is kind of what gets me about it too.  They have deals with Netflix in certain regions so why can't they just do that for all regions?

Because CBS does not get that much revenue from putting a premium show on Netflix. The subscription fee for Netflix gets slip for a ton of right owners.
I'm pretty sure CBS will earn more from 100,000 viewers on CBS all Acess than for 1 million viewers on Netflix.

[marauder648]

I was watching STD ep's 1 and 2 again and, its still at best alright, it looks stunning, the sets, the CGI, all very very good stuff. 

But the characters are forgettable save Saru who seemed to be like a more lanky C3-PO to me.  I'm honestly okay with the changes to the Klingons, sure i'd prefer if they called them another name, but eehh,, the Klingons have gone from Mexicans in Gold lame to knobble headed space vikings so this take on them is alright.

I liked T'kuvma, and the Captain but the main character was just sooooo dumb!  She made a LOAD of really bad, emotionally fueled decisions, the worst being not the mutiny, but at the end.  She has a chance to stun T'kuv'ma and capture him but nope RAEG and shoots him in the back, which could probably be the worst thing as its dishonourable to kill someone like that in Klingon eyes. 

She was just bland, and made a buttload of bad decisions that would take Janeway at least 2 episodes to equal (and then go full hypocrite in episode 3 and have a go at someone for doing what she just did, but I digress).

[garhkal]

I'm going to do what I can to resist that.  I canceled my traditional cable TV service earlier this year and subscribed to Netflix and Hulu.  I'm very satisfied with that but what I don't want to do is have to subscribe to a dozen different streaming services to get one program from each.  For around $10 a month I get more movies and TV shows from Netflix that I can watch.  For $10 I would get one show from CBS All Access.  So, no, not going to support that.

ANd if that's the route they are all going, then i guess i won't be watching Tv.

[mdauben]

She made a LOAD of really bad, emotionally fueled decisions, the worst being not the mutiny, but at the end. 

This is the thing that grates on my nerves the most.   >:(

In the ST movie reboot, the thing that bothered me the most was the totally implausible idea that any military organization would pull a known troublemaker out of the academy, before he even graduated, jump him several ranks, and make him captain of a major warship.

Now, I'm expected to believe that they are going to pull a mutineer out of prison and make her the first officer of a major warship?

GAH!   ::)

ANd if that's the route they are all going, then i guess i won't be watching Tv.

Honestly, I spend less time in front of the TV now, simply because I only turn it on when I want to actually watch something.  I don't sit there for two hours surfing through 100+ channels of trash over and over, looking for something worth watching.  And I'm fine with that.   Gives me more time to paint miniatures!  ;)

[Lorcan Nagle]

Now, I'm expected to believe that they are going to pull a mutineer out of prison and make her the first officer of a major warship?

The previews of the upcoming episodes show that Burnham is not the first officer on Discovery. And Discovery isn't a warship.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

It's a Star Fleet vessel, isn't it?

[mdauben]

The previews of the upcoming episodes show that Burnham is not the first officer on Discovery. And Discovery isn't a warship.

Does Discovery have phasers and photon torpedoes?  Then its a warship.

In any case, this is totally irrelevant to the fact that she should be in jail, not serving on any kind of federation starship.   ::)

[Kit deSummersville]

It's a Star Fleet vessel, isn't it?

Wessel.

[Cannonshop]

I was watching STD ep's 1 and 2 again and, its still at best alright, it looks stunning, the sets, the CGI, all very very good stuff. 

But the characters are forgettable save Saru who seemed to be like a more lanky C3-PO to me.  I'm honestly okay with the changes to the Klingons, sure i'd prefer if they called them another name, but eehh,, the Klingons have gone from Mexicans in Gold lame to knobble headed space vikings so this take on them is alright.

I liked T'kuvma, and the Captain but the main character was just sooooo dumb!  She made a LOAD of really bad, emotionally fueled decisions, the worst being not the mutiny, but at the end.  She has a chance to stun T'kuv'ma and capture him but nope RAEG and shoots him in the back, which could probably be the worst thing as its dishonourable to kill someone like that in Klingon eyes. 

She was just bland, and made a buttload of bad decisions that would take Janeway at least 2 episodes to equal (and then go full hypocrite in episode 3 and have a go at someone for doing what she just did, but I digress).

see, I got a completely different impression on the discovery "Klingons" than you did-they took a race that was athletic, passionate, aggressive, loud, bold, and boisterous, and turned them into hobbling soft-talking wimps in latex and gold corsets, with expressionless faces and lemming-like behaviours.

Whether you're talking the "Puerto ricans in gold Lame'" or the "Ridge-headed space vikings" the constant thread with Klingons that they violated, was the easy, 'kick me if you dare' attitude with the fluid, arrogant motion and expressive nature.

T'Kuvma and his ilk have one facial expression (forced by the masks they're using), and his powerful, rabble-rousing speech sounded and was delivered like a quarterly report from a failing retail chain.

In simplest terms, they took everything good about Klingons away, and replaced it with overdressed gaudy junk, most of which looked exactly like what it is-extruded plastic with gilded paint and WAAAAYYYY too much latex.

The Nu-Trek Klingons clearly aren't the kind that enjoys an off-color joke, or a drink, or outsmarting an opponent, or (hate to say it) a good fight, they're just kind of bland, passive, whiny, overdressed and overdecorated schmucks.

[Lorcan Nagle]

Does Discovery have phasers and photon torpedoes?  Then its a warship.

As I understand it, Discovery is explicitly a science ship, like an Oberth class.

In any case, this is totally irrelevant to the fact that she should be in jail, not serving on any kind of federation starship.   ::)

From the previews, it looks like she's part of a penal unit, or in a Tom Paris type situation. 

[roosterboy]

I'm glad they got rid of the TNG Klingon look. I've personally always thought it looked absolutely ridiculous.

The Nu-Trek Klingons clearly aren't the kind that enjoys an off-color joke, or a drink, or outsmarting an opponent, or (hate to say it) a good fight

Given that the only ones we've really seen much of so far were a religious fanatic and his followers, I'm not so sure you can make that claim just yet. It'd be like judging all TNG-era Klingons by the uptight way Worf acts.

There were two things I didn't like about these new Klingons:

1. While it was cool to get entire scenes in their language, it really slowed things to a halt. I hope they don't do it too much in future episodes.

2. I hated the outfits T'Kuvma and his followers wore. I hope that's not going to be standard Klingon attire. (Of course, I also hated the previous "dorky death metal band" outfits too.)

Everything else, I'm cool with. I liked that they seemed more alien that the TNG-era dudes.

[Kentares]

I'm glad they got rid of the TNG Klingon look. I've personally always thought it looked absolutely ridiculous.

Given that the only ones we've really seen much of so far were a religious fanatic and his followers, I'm not so sure you can make that claim just yet. It'd be like judging all TNG-era Klingons by the uptight way Worf acts.

There were two things I didn't like about these new Klingons:

1. While it was cool to get entire scenes in their language, it really slowed things to a halt. I hope they don't do it too much in future episodes.

2. I hated the outfits T'Kuvma and his followers wore. I hope that's not going to be standard Klingon attire. (Of course, I also hated the previous "dorky death metal band" outfits too.)

Everything else, I'm cool with. I liked that they seemed more alien that the TNG-era dudes.

Seriously!? More alien than the TNG/DS9 dudes????

Cant believe I read that. Discovery Klingons look like hairless primates in a carnival party (even taking into account that these guys are the leaders of each house and assume they are the only ones who dress like that but lets see what the future holds...).

[roosterboy]

Seriously!? More alien than the TNG/DS9 dudes????

Given that those guys didn't seem very alien at all, yes.

I truly cannot overstate the depth of my hatred for TNG-era Klingons. Not at first, but I definitely grew to loathe them before TNG ended and that opinion was not changed by anything in DS9 or Voyager. I hate the way they look. I hate the culture they were given. I hate the storylines they were put through. I hate how the fans gush over them. I groaned every time an episode ended up involving them in a major way. They were a colossal joke. Good riddance.

The only one I didn't mind was Martok. And at least Gowron was funny to look at in a good way. Oh, and Kruge was okay too.

[Jaim Magnus]

I'm fine with the Klingons looking more alien, but did they have to give them a rubber mask? How are the actors supposed to emote? Tone it back enough so they can have some actual CHARACTER.

[YingJanshi]

Are there any Andorians in Discovery yet? They were one of the very few things I enjoyed about the Enterprise show.
I wanna see more Andorians darnit!!

Given that those guys didn't seem very alien at all, yes.

I truly cannot overstate the depth of my hatred for TNG-era Klingons. Not at first, but I definitely grew to loathe them before TNG ended and that opinion was not changed by anything in DS9 or Voyager. I hate the way they look. I hate the culture they were given. I hate the storylines they were put through. I hate how the fans gush over them. I groaned every time an episode ended up involving them in a major way. They were a colossal joke. Good riddance.

The only one I didn't mind was Martok. And at least Gowron was funny to look at in a good way. Oh, and Kruge was okay too.

Eh...I just always hated how the roles of the TOS Klingons/Romulans were switched in TNG so that the Klingons went from being conniving backstabby rogues to honor bound overly emotional warriors and the Romulans went from honor bound overly emotional warriors to conniving backstabby rogues.  The TOS Romulans have always felt like they fit the whole "off-shoot of Vulcans thing" a lot better than the TNG era ones: like this is how the Vulcans were before Surak.

[roosterboy]

Are there any Andorians in Discovery yet? They were one of the very few things I enjoyed about the Enterprise show.
I wanna see more Andorians darnit!!

One of the Starfleet ships that showed up for the battle was the Shran, but I don't believe we saw any Andorians.

[Cannonshop]

I'm glad they got rid of the TNG Klingon look. I've personally always thought it looked absolutely ridiculous.

Given that the only ones we've really seen much of so far were a religious fanatic and his followers, I'm not so sure you can make that claim just yet. It'd be like judging all TNG-era Klingons by the uptight way Worf acts.

There were two things I didn't like about these new Klingons:

1. While it was cool to get entire scenes in their language, it really slowed things to a halt. I hope they don't do it too much in future episodes.

2. I hated the outfits T'Kuvma and his followers wore. I hope that's not going to be standard Klingon attire. (Of course, I also hated the previous "dorky death metal band" outfits too.)

Everything else, I'm cool with. I liked that they seemed more alien that the TNG-era dudes.

1. it's not just that it was in th'lingan-hol, but that the lines were delivered with about as much emotion, feeling, and character as the exciting task of observing and describing the drying of housepaint.  Watch Star Trek III-That's how deliver whole scenes in the Klingon language.
2. Ep. 2 shows that yes, that's 'standard wear' for the Nuklingons, even kids wear the latex corsets with t he metallic accents. and notably, they all move that same way, and aside from airbrushing, "They really do all look alike now."

as I said, everything that was GOOD about Klingons (the attitude, the liveliness) was removed.  Maybe they should've paid for Claymation and recorded lines on a separate track before mixing?  or got Jim Henson's legacy company to do them? something, anything, but expressionless, slow-and-awkward, lifeless statues they put on the screen.

[roosterboy]

1. it's not just that it was in th'lingan-hol, but that the lines were delivered with about as much emotion, feeling, and character as the exciting task of observing and describing the drying of housepaint.  Watch Star Trek III-That's how deliver whole scenes in the Klingon language.

No, the problem wasn't the use of the Klingon dialogue, it was the way Chris Obi in particular delivered his lines. The house leaders in the hologram were fine.

2. Ep. 2 shows that yes, that's 'standard wear' for the Nuklingons, even kids wear the latex corsets with t he metallic accents. and notably, they all move that same way, and aside from airbrushing, "They really do all look alike now."

Well, no, in fact. Ep 2 shows the leaders of the Klingon houses (or, at least, the six or seven out of twenty-four that we see in the hologram) dressed differently from T'Kuvma and his crew. And from each other, which is a nice change from the TNG-era Klingons.

as I said, everything that was GOOD about Klingons (the attitude, the liveliness) was removed.

You say good, I say annoying and ridiculous.

Maybe they should've paid for Claymation and recorded lines on a separate track before mixing?  or got Jim Henson's legacy company to do them? something, anything, but expressionless, slow-and-awkward, lifeless statues they put on the screen.

Again, you're judging all the new Klingons by T'Kuvma, who is a special case and, judging by the performance of the holographic house leaders, not at all typical.

[Lorcan Nagle]

Plus, the house leaders looked to act like Klingon nobility in TNG and DS9 - obsessed with their position, aristocratic, looking down on the commoner...

[HobbesHurlbut]

Eh...I just always hated how the roles of the TOS Klingons/Romulans were switched in TNG so that the Klingons went from being conniving backstabby rogues to honor bound overly emotional warriors and the Romulans went from honor bound overly emotional warriors to conniving backstabby rogues.  The TOS Romulans have always felt like they fit the whole "off-shoot of Vulcans thing" a lot better than the TNG era ones: like this is how the Vulcans were before Surak.

As I understand, in TOS the Klingons and the Romulans represented two Cold Wars powers; USSR and CCP China respectively. This was so the audience at the time could relate to the show  ;D

The Romulans' inspirations are drawn from the Roman Empire (The government structure/Empire and the Military Nobility (virtue))  and CCP China (The Byzantine 'high class' society of power grabbing and backstabbing). Tal Shiar (Secret Police and part of the Byzantine political culture) and the Imperial Navy are at odds with each other.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Romulan

The section on the Society is a good account of what I said about the inspiration sources for the Romulans.

On another topic;
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/episodes/dis1.htm#thevulcanhello
Does anyone agree with any of the points the reviewer brought up?

[Kentares]

On another topic;
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/episodes/dis1.htm#thevulcanhello
Does anyone agree with any of the points the reviewer brought up?

I agree. Im even going to pretend this is on Ambramsverse past instead of Prime Universe so I can watch the show (and out of curiosity to see where this leads/ends).

[YingJanshi]

https://youtu.be/ZcTvrxwP6Is

Hm...that theme is going to take a bit getting used to I think. It's good...just needs to be a bit more...upbeat?
At least it's waaay better than the theme for Enterprise (of course that's a pretty low bar to begin with).

I know I'm going to be in the minority with this: but from seeing it in here, I think I actually like the looks for the Discovery. It's a cool looking ship. It looks like something Roddenberry might have come up with (in fact it does kind of remind me of some of the early concept art for the USS Enterprise).

[HobbesHurlbut]

(in fact it does kind of remind me of some of the early concept art for the USS Enterprise).

.....it is BASED on an early concept art.

[Lorcan Nagle]

The concept art for Planet of the Titans, which was one of the Trek sequel ideas in the conga line that eventually became TMP.

[Ruger]

I'm glad they got rid of the TNG Klingon look. I've personally always thought it looked absolutely ridiculous.

Everything else, I'm cool with. I liked that they seemed more alien that the TNG-era dudes.

Let me preface my response here with the following: I've only seen the first episode, and am not willing to pay to see the rest (at least until it comes out on DVD), as, if I were Canadian, I'd be seeing it on Space tv for no extra cost...

I'm honestly not sure what you mean by the "TNG Klingon look"...the TNG Klingons look no different from the movie era Klingons, which first appeared in Star Trek the Motion Picture (or Motionless Picture, as some prefer...I mostly only watch the opening sequence to see the sweet, sweet K't'inga action...), and continued on into Star Trek III, Star Trek IV (minorly), Star Trek V, Star Trek VI and Star Trek Generations (which brought the movies into the TNG era).

So what exactly makes a movie era Klingon different from a TNG era Klingon?

As to looking alike, etc., or less human...the TOS Klingons looked FAR more human, and just as alike as the movie era/TNG ones...why not complain about those?

Personally, I loved the movie and TNG era Klingons, especially once we started learning more of their culture, rather than just seeing snippets here and there...

I personally would love to see these new Klingons being the first of the ones that tried to get around the "fix" that Phlox was forced to make for the human augment DNA with which they tried to change themselves...but that the movie era/TNG era Klingons were the real Klingons...or at least make them an offshoot branch of the klingons, similar to the Remans...that way, we wouldn't loose decades of history with yet another useless retcon...

Heck...just use the old FASA ST RPG reasoning...the movie/TNG era Klingons are the purebloods, the TOS ones are human-fusion Klingons (which is basically the tact that Enterprise took), and these new ones could be a fusion with another species...

BTW, I've read that there are supposed to be some ideas from The Final Reflection used with the Klingons on Discovery...maybe even introducing klin zha...would really like to see that...

Ruger

[roosterboy]

Let me preface my response here with the following: I've only seen the first episode, and am not willing to pay to see the rest (at least until it comes out on DVD), as, if I were Canadian, I'd be seeing it on Space tv for no extra cost...

I'm honestly not sure what you mean by the "TNG Klingon look"...the TNG Klingons look no different from the movie era Klingons, which first appeared in Star Trek the Motion Picture (or Motionless Picture, as some prefer...I mostly only watch the opening sequence to see the sweet, sweet K't'inga action...), and continued on into Star Trek III, Star Trek IV (minorly), Star Trek V, Star Trek VI and Star Trek Generations (which brought the movies into the TNG era).

So what exactly makes a movie era Klingon different from a TNG era Klingon?

Nothing. It's just that while that look was introduced in the original movies, it was tweaked for TV and the Klingons themselves were explored far more in the various modern series than they were in the movies. Easier to say "TNG-era Klingons" knowing that most people in the discussion will know that they were essentially the same look as the movie Klingons without requiring unnecessary detours into pedantry.

As to looking alike, etc., or less human...the TOS Klingons looked FAR more human, and just as alike as the movie era/TNG ones...why not complain about those?

Because I have no problems with TOS-style Klingons. It's the movie/TNG Klingons that I think look and act stupid.

[Jaim Magnus]

https://youtu.be/ZcTvrxwP6Is

Hm...that theme is going to take a bit getting used to I think. It's good...just needs to be a bit more...upbeat?
At least it's waaay better than the theme for Enterprise (of course that's a pretty low bar to begin with).

The opening is WAAAAAAYYYYYY too 'Lost/Fringe' for my tastes, but that makes sense.

[monbvol]

I kind of get where Cannonshop is coming from.

While I don't care their culture has been changed again what I take issue with is how dull everything they do has been so far.

As ridiculous as the TNG portrayal of honor is more a suggestion than an absolute, which is nothing new, punching bags they at least were not boring.

Their appearance, as bad as I can agree that it was even if I didn't mind all of it did not turn me off the way Discovery Klingons do.

[roosterboy]

While I don't care their culture has been changed again what I take issue with is how dull everything they do has been so far.

So far? It's been one or two episodes (depending on how much of the premiere you saw). They haven't really done much yet.

[Wrangler]

I completely missed it and i can't find a on-demand source try watch it.  So i guess won't be seeing it for years then.