Author Topic: Star Trek Discovery  (Read 161766 times)

snewsom2997

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #330 on: 19 October 2017, 09:05:32 »
Discovery is set in the Prime universe not film reboot verse

But the license to make discovery is from the reboot verse.

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #331 on: 19 October 2017, 09:13:17 »
But the license to make discovery is from the reboot verse.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #332 on: 19 October 2017, 09:37:05 »
This last episode namedropped both Christopher Pike and Jonathan Archer, as well as Robert April, Matthew Decker and Philippa Georgiou. They were all listed as Star Fleets most decorated captains.

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #333 on: 19 October 2017, 09:41:59 »


http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek_corporate_history

2005 – present)
    Viacom had purchased CBS Corporation in 2000. They split in 2005. The old Viacom then became CBS Corporation. Its holding Paramount Television became CBS Paramount Network Television. CBS Television Distribution formed soon after and took over distribution of past Star Trek shows. In 2009, CBS Paramount Network Television became CBS Television Studios. Star Trek: Discovery will be produced under this ownership

In the 2005 Viacom/CBS split, the old Viacom became the CBS Corporation and a new Viacom was created. This new company owns Paramount Pictures, which in turn owns the Trek films. Paramount Pictures produced Star Trek, Star Trek Into Darkness, and Star Trek Beyond under license from CBS Television Studios. Paramount also continues to distribute DVDs of the TV series on behalf of CBS. The split marked the occasion that the former Paramount Television was formally separated from Paramount Pictures; until this point in time the television company had always been a subsidiary division of Paramount Pictures.

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #334 on: 19 October 2017, 09:46:35 »
Where's the part that explicitly says they cannot use elements of what came before?
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #335 on: 19 October 2017, 10:05:47 »
Discovery was licensed using the JJ Abrams version of Star Trek, the movie license. Not the ToS, TNG, DS9, etc TV License. All of the ships we are familiar with and what not come from the TV License, the original Paramount License.
Paramount got the MOVIES. CBS got the SHOWS. That is how the split of the IP was done for them.

Also, your citation basically stated the same thing I just said.
« Last Edit: 19 October 2017, 10:07:40 by HobbesHurlbut »
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #336 on: 19 October 2017, 10:09:07 »
the Licensiing argument was debunked six months ago.  It was first promulgated by the blogger "Midnight'sEdge" on his Youtube show.

Weirdo, you're absolutely dead right-this isn't a continuity error, and it's not a case of licensing conflicts.  This is simply erasing all that came before because the owner of the IP wanted to erase it and create it over again in his own image.  I mean, it should've been obvious when they stripped the Klingons of everything that made them cool and engaging and replaced them with generic space-monsters that use the language but none of the visual cues (beyond some ridges on their heads), none of the cultural cues (except repeating the name "Kahless" in the first episode), and deliberately stomping all over the rest of the visual language of the setting.

It's 'Star Trek" because that's what's on the box, but it only has superficial, passing references to Star Trek mostly employed to exploit name recogition and a fandom that would buy used toiletpaper if it's got an Official Star Trek seal on it.

Hey, you know, can't argue too hard-the move worked. CBS is making money, and there are a host of people who'll defend to the death how 'authentic' and such it is, even in the face of the most ridiculous and unnecessary changes, because it has 'Star Trek' on the box.

But it's fundamentally LESS respectful of the original than even the JJAbrams movies are, and that's a deliberate and intentional creative decision by the IP holder.

Thus, the "Official Prime Timeline" seal, which can't be changed by fandom, it's there unless or until there's another IP holder who can or will change it (unlikely.)

MY problem with it, is that taken as a separate product, on it's own merits alone, ignoring the Trek seal, it doesn't hold up.  The characters are bland, boring, and unlikeable, the villains are one-dimensional, the whole thing takes itself too seriously and has no life, joy, or humour in it.  The Universe they present isn't merely 'dark', it's Dull and lifeless.
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HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #337 on: 19 October 2017, 10:12:30 »
From Wikipedia on ST: Discovery

"...and revealed that it would be set in the "Prime Timeline" (which includes the previous Star Trek series, but not the modern reboot films) to keep the concurrent series and films separate, so "we don't have to track anything [happening in the films] and they don't have to track what we're doing".[45] "

Source 45. Trendacosta, Katharine (July 23, 2016). "Star Trek: Discovery Officially Takes Place in the Prime Universe". io9. United States: Univision Communications. Archived from the original on July 28, 2016. Retrieved July 24, 2016.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #338 on: 19 October 2017, 11:12:22 »
Between multiple timelines and paying to watch the TV show, I'm done with Star Trek. Its far too taxing to try and follow with my limited time and money.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #339 on: 19 October 2017, 11:23:34 »
Personally this is bad.  Essentially, old/Classic Star Trek Timeline is TOS-To-ST:Nemesis.  Anything after that is it's own thing.  Trek-Movieverse (From Star Trek Film)  ST: Enterprise  being part of the canon was changed/altered from the beginning a bit because way it protrayed the universe after Star Trek: First Contact.  Borg/Enterprise-D thing changed everything. Heck, TOS said First Contact with Vulcans happened completely different from way it was in First Contact.

Anyways, Discovery (to me) is the beginning of a new Trekverse on television and CBS Television won't admit it is.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #340 on: 19 October 2017, 12:06:36 »
I mean, it should've been obvious when they stripped the Klingons of everything that made them cool and engaging and replaced them with generic space-monsters that use the language but none of the visual cues (beyond some ridges on their heads), none of the cultural cues (except repeating the name "Kahless" in the first episode), and deliberately stomping all over the rest of the visual language of the setting.
Thank god that they did.

I'm pretty certain we won't get Klingons claiming Shakepare was theirs and quoting them all through the series anymore.

That alone is worth rebooting the entire franchise and klingons. Good ****** riddance to Kang and his like.

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #341 on: 19 October 2017, 13:01:24 »
Thank god that they did.

I'm pretty certain we won't get Klingons claiming Shakepare was theirs and quoting them all through the series anymore.

That alone is worth rebooting the entire franchise and klingons. Good ****** riddance to Kang and his like.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #342 on: 19 October 2017, 13:20:24 »
Thank god that they did.

I'm pretty certain we won't get Klingons claiming Shakepare was theirs and quoting them all through the series anymore.

That alone is worth rebooting the entire franchise and klingons. Good ****** riddance to Kang and his like.


Hey now, Kang and Martok are the two coolest Klingons ever!

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #343 on: 19 October 2017, 13:31:15 »
Weirdo, you're absolutely dead right-this isn't a continuity error, and it's not a case of licensing conflicts.  This is simply erasing all that came before because the owner of the IP wanted to erase it and create it over again in his own image. 

No it's not.  D7s are right there in every other Trek appearance just as they were before.  Discovery just looks different.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #344 on: 19 October 2017, 13:52:52 »
Unnecessarily so. If it's the same timeline how do you reconcile the D7s seen everywhere else with the stuff in Discovery?
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #345 on: 19 October 2017, 13:56:03 »
They missed a great opportunity to use the B-4 joke again.

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #346 on: 19 October 2017, 13:57:33 »
Unnecessarily so. If it's the same timeline how do you reconcile the D7s seen everywhere else with the stuff in Discovery?

I don't bother.  It's literally meaningless.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #347 on: 19 October 2017, 14:15:18 »
For you, perhaps. For me, watching big starships strut their stuff is the payoff I look forward to when watching sci-fi. (Probably why BSG was such a disappointment for me. The nature of that show was that the ships were settings instead of characters in their own right, with very few exceptions.) You see it as a minor detail you can ignore. I see it as an insult that removes any remaining motivation to watch this.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #348 on: 19 October 2017, 14:17:58 »
For you, perhaps. For me, watching big starships strut their stuff is the payoff I look forward to when watching sci-fi. (Probably why BSG was such a disappointment for me. The nature of that show was that the ships were settings instead of characters in their own right, with very few exceptions.) You see it as a minor detail you can ignore. I see it as an insult that removes any remaining motivation to watch this.

But there's still a spaceship there strutting its stuff.  It just looks different to a spaceship in a 50-year old TV show with the same name.

Like, in the Macross TV show, the SDF-1 looks one way.  In Do You Remember Love, the SDF-1 looks different.  Both are set at the same time - they're two versions of the same story.  And both are right there, just as valid as one another.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #349 on: 19 October 2017, 14:37:57 »
Except both of those SDFs-1 closely resemble each other. If you've seen one, you don't need things spelled out for you when you see the second - you know an SDF when you see it.

There have been many D7-type ships throughout Star Trek, and if you've seen one, you know exactly what you're saying when you look at another, even the 'warbirds' in Into Darkness. That thing on Discovery has as much resemblance to any D7 as the 1860s ironclad sitting on my desk.

Anyway, it has been said before that this is a thread for people who are actually interested in this show. Since that group no longer includes me, I'll bow out now for the time being, at least.
« Last Edit: 19 October 2017, 14:41:16 by Weirdo »
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #350 on: 19 October 2017, 14:45:19 »
Except both of those SDFs-1 closely resemble each other. If you've seen one, you don't need things spelled out for you when you see the second - you know an SDF when you see it.

There have been many D7-type ships throughout Star Trek, and if you've seen one, you know exactly what you're saying when you look at another, even the 'warbirds' in Into Darkness. That thing on Discovery has as much resemblance to any D7 as the 1860s ironclad sitting on my desk.

It's got a long neck with a bulbous section at the front, a body that flares out at the back and has warp nacelles on the ends of its wings.  I was able to pick out clear D7 lookalikes in the battle of the Binary Stars
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #351 on: 19 October 2017, 15:22:28 »
It's got a long neck with a bulbous section at the front, a body that flares out at the back and has warp nacelles on the ends of its wings.  I was able to pick out clear D7 lookalikes in the battle of the Binary Stars
Yet. This triangular ship has been called a D7 in dialogue and both of us know it is NOT a D7 lookalike as defined by other shows.
That's the problem, all they had to do was to say "klingon battlecruiser!" or "C(any number)!" or "D6!". No, they specifically chose to designate it as a D7.

And this is not due to artistic style 'difference' unlike the Star Wars Rebels. At least on that Disney said if there were any difference in how some ships/tech look, it's due to artistic style unless it is specifically for a different reason (older model and such).
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #352 on: 19 October 2017, 15:29:15 »
That's why i'm saying it's own universe and rule of cool is what rules this version.  They're throwing old names in there so people knows what they are.

I'd imaging the Enterprise won't remotely look like what it did in tv show when it show up.  Old Classic Star Trek, the Constitution Class Starships were introduced into during THIS conflict Discovery suppose to cover if not totally changed. 
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HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #353 on: 19 October 2017, 15:36:28 »
That's why i'm saying it's own universe and rule of cool is what rules this version.  They're throwing old names in there so people knows what they are.

I'd imaging the Enterprise won't remotely look like what it did in tv show when it show up.  Old Classic Star Trek, the Constitution Class Starships were introduced into during THIS conflict Discovery suppose to cover if not totally changed.
Yeah too bad, the show is part of the prime timeline. People who have seen the new movies and this show for the first time will be surprised when they start looking up the older shows...
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Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #354 on: 19 October 2017, 15:43:51 »
Yet. This triangular ship has been called a D7 in dialogue and both of us know it is NOT a D7 lookalike as defined by other shows.
That's the problem, all they had to do was to say "klingon battlecruiser!" or "C(any number)!" or "D6!". No, they specifically chose to designate it as a D7.


Well, the ship isn't triangular.  We see a closeup of the point where the neck meets the wings when it warps in over the shuttle, but it's quite clear much of it is off-screen, and what we see is not inconsistent with the TOS D7 - it just tapers into the neck instead of having a flat drive section.  Flip a D7 model or mini over, take a camera, and zoom in on the front of the stardrive until it takes up almost all the frame.  I guarantee you the shape will be similar to what loomed over Lorca's shuttle in episode 5.

But even if they totally redesigned the D7 so it looks like  more like a Starfighter from Buck Rogers, I'm not sure how that makes the show bad.  Gene Roddenberry didn't give a hoot about visual consistency, he literally said he didn't care that the Klingons looked different in TMP vs TOS, and that fans should just imagine they always looked the way they do now. 
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #355 on: 19 October 2017, 16:16:37 »
  Gene Roddenberry didn't give a hoot about visual consistency, he literally said he didn't care that the Klingons looked different in TMP vs TOS, and that fans should just imagine they always looked the way they do now.
Which make sense only because, out of universe, make up for that kind of effect was really costly. Just look at the pointed ears. Which was why most of the Romulan background characters in Balance of Terror were wearing helmets.

In-universe, we had the answer from the ENT show regarding the Human Augment virus.

Also, you did see the youtube clip by Trekyard that impose the TOS D7 over the foreign "D7", where I posted the link to on previous page? It is VERY different. If you look closely, they couldn't remove the alien D7 image from the tractor beam itself giving you a good comparison of how they are so different.
« Last Edit: 19 October 2017, 16:19:09 by HobbesHurlbut »
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #356 on: 19 October 2017, 16:38:53 »
In-universe, we had the answer from the ENT show regarding the Human Augment virus.

Which was close to Enterprise's greatest sin. DS9 gave the best explanation for the change in Klingon appearance.

Quote
Also, you did see the youtube clip by Trekyard that impose the TOS D7 over the foreign "D7", where I posted the link to on previous page? It is VERY different. If you look closely, they couldn't remove the alien D7 image from the tractor beam itself giving you a good comparison of how they are so different.

I have now, and it really doesn't do much, except if you fiddle with the scale and perspective you can prove whatever you want.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #357 on: 19 October 2017, 16:40:58 »
Yeah, I'm exiting this thread and following Weirdo out.
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #358 on: 19 October 2017, 17:18:15 »
Yeah, I'm exiting this thread and following Weirdo out.

OK, so on the off-chance you return to the thread, detailed reasons why that video doesn't hold water for me:

They change the context of the shot by reframing it.  In Discovery, the nuD7 is too large to fit in the shot, it's overwhelming the tiny shuttle and we never get a good look at it.  Here, every single shot shows the full extent of an OG D7.  It's not a valid comparison from a cinematographic point of view.

On that same note, they decide to go from the shuttle being below the D7's stardrive section and drawn into its middle by the tractor beam, to the tractor pulling the shuttle forward and in front of the ship.  So not only do they change the framing, that actually change the action of the scene, which is intellectually dishonest.

Assuming they measured the length of the shuttle and used it to extrapolate how big an OG D7 was by comparison, they best they've proven is that they changed the size of the ship.  And OK, that's a change that's arguably unnecessary, but find me an episode of Trek that explains why the crew complement of a Bird of Prey changes between Search for Spock and TNG?
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Re: Star Trek Discovery
« Reply #359 on: 19 October 2017, 17:53:30 »
Assuming they measured the length of the shuttle and used it to extrapolate how big an OG D7 was by comparison, they best they've proven is that they changed the size of the ship.  And OK, that's a change that's arguably unnecessary, but find me an episode of Trek that explains why the crew complement of a Bird of Prey changes between Search for Spock and TNG?

Do we know that they were the same model of Bird of Prey?  I thought there were newer, updated Birds used in TNG.
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